Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #569
From: Digestifier <Linux-Misc-Request@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>
To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU
Date:     Wed, 19 Jan 94 06:13:58 EST

Linux-Misc Digest #569, Volume #1                Wed, 19 Jan 94 06:13:58 EST

Contents:
  Welcome to the comp.os.linux.* hierarchy! (Matt Welsh)
  Re: Term == SLIP ?
  Re: uucp 1.04 - looking for tester, _complete_ (better)version (Vince Skahan)
  Linux in southern Holland. (J.J. Paijmans)
  Re: Why is emacs19 so slow on slackware 1.1.1 ? (Fritz Ganter)
  Re: serious comment about satan in /dev/mem (Fritz Ganter)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mdw@sunsite.unc.edu (Matt Welsh)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.announce,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux,news.answers,comp.answers
Subject: Welcome to the comp.os.linux.* hierarchy!
Date: 19 Jan 1994 07:53:19 GMT

Archive-name: linux/announce/intro
Last-modified: 18 January 94

[]
                 Welcome to the comp.os.linux.* hierarchy!

Background
=========================================================================
        This posting is an introduction to the comp.os.linux.* hierarchy 
        of USENET newsgroups. 

        Linux is a free implementation of UNIX for 80386/80486 machines 
        covered by the GNU GPL. Most of the development of the Linux 
        kernel has been done by Linus Torvalds, an internationally 
        reknowned UNIX wizard from Helsinki, Finland.

        For the past two years or so, the newsgroup comp.os.linux 
        grew to be one of the most popular groups on USENET. Late in 1992, 
        a CFV for splitting comp.os.linux was posted; the only group which 
        passed was comp.os.linux.announce, a moderated newsgroup for Linux 
        announcements and patches.

        Six months later, during the summer of 1993, another CFV for 
        splitting comp.os.linux was posted. The voting period for the 
        comp.os.linux reorganization results ended on 4 August 1993.
        The results were as follows:

        comp.os.linux reorganization results - 1842 votes

         Yes   No  : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
         ---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------
         1692  135 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.os.linux.admin
         1741   90 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.os.linux.development
         1647  177 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.os.linux.help
         1660  155 :  Yes   Yes :   Yes : comp.os.linux.misc


        Because of this split, the newsgroup comp.os.linux was deleted 
        on 11 November 1993. The new newsgroups were created 
        on 11 August 1993. This posting describes these newsgroups, 
        including comp.os.linux.announce, which remains entact.

        There should be no more traffic to the now-defunct group
        comp.os.linux; please use one of the new groups instead.


General Policy
=========================================================================
        The general policy for the Linux newsgroups is simple. Who sets
        the policy? We all do. All of us on USENET are interested in
        communicating openly about a number of topics. That's why we
        have USENET. If you want the Linux newsgroups to work for you,
        a few suggestions:

        * Read the Linux FAQ and follow the newsgroups for some time 
          before posting questions. This is very important. comp.os.linux 
          suffered from HUGE amounts of noise and traffic because much 
          of the growing readership never bothered to READ the newsgroup;
          they only posted questions.
          
          The same thing will happen with the new newsgroups unless you 
          read the FAQ (found on sunsite.unc.edu in the file 
          pub/Linux/docs/FAQ) and read the newsgroup for some time before 
          posting questions. Chances are, your question has already been
          recently answered, and a simple browsing of the newsgroup
          will answer it. We suggest using a threaded newsreader such as
          "trn" which will allow you to browse and mark articles by 
          subject, so you don't have to read each and every article in
          each newsgroup.

          Also of interest are the Linux HOWTO documents, found on 
          sunsite.unc.edu in pub/Linux/docs/HOWTO. They describe many
          features of the Linux system.

        * Crossposting between the Linux newsgroups is STRONGLY 
          discouraged. If you do crosspost questions between Linux 
          newsgroups, expect to be flamed to oblivion. The reason we
          have a newsgroup split is to categorize discussions into 
          separate newsgroups. Crossposting negates this effect. 
          If your posting cannot fit into ONE of the newsgroups
          c.o.l.admin, c.o.l.help, or c.o.l.development, then you 
          should post it to c.o.l.misc. 

          The one exception is for announcements. Occasionally, an
          important announcement (such as this one) will be crossposted
          between c.o.l.announce and one or more of the other c.o.l.*
          groups. These announcements must be approved by the .announce
          moderator; see below.

        * Reply to questions via e-mail if at all possible. While 
          discussion in the newsgroups is encouraged, if someone is
          asking a simple question to which the answer is well-known,
          there is no reason to post the reply. Don't assume that 
          the person posting the question actually reads the newsgroup
          or will even note your followup if they do. Reply via e-mail
          unless the reply is of general interest. 

        * Don't flame newbies. Over the course of the past few months,
          the Linux community has developed an oversensitive ego and
          a reputation for being unfriendly towards newcomers, mostly
          because of unwarranted flaming by a handful of righteous 
          individuals. If someone posts, saying, "Hi! I'm new to
          this group! What is Linux?" (which will inevitably happen
          as the new newsgroups are propagated), DO NOT FLAME THEM.
          When someone sees a new newsgroup pop up within "rn", they
          are justifiably curious about the new group and probably
          don't know that well over 80,000 people who know EVERYTHING
          about Linux read the group. Right? 

          Instead of being rude, you can send a polite note to the
          poster, saying, "Hello, Linux is a free implementation of
          UNIX for the 386 and 486. You can get the FAQ from 
          sunsite.unc.edu in /pub/Linux/docs. Let me know if I can
          be of help!". That's all. Not difficult, eh? You can even
          save your stock reply in a file and simply send form-letters
          to newbies if you wish. But there is very little point in
          flaming or ever being rude. It goes against everything that
          Linux can and should be. 

          Just remember that nobody knows everything---not even Linus---
          and that you were a newbie once, too. :)


comp.os.linux.announce
=========================================================================
        Comp.os.linux.announce is a moderated newsgroup for Linux 
        announcements and source patches. The purpose of this group was
        to get all of the ``important'' Linux information out of the
        regular newsgroup and into a place where all Linux users could see
        the important announcements without having to wade through a 
        jungle of other postings. So far, this group has been very 
        successful. 

        The moderators for this group are myself (Matt Welsh, 
        mdw@sunsite.unc.edu) and Lars Wirzenius (wirzeniu@cc.helsinki.fi). 
        We will be sharing the moderator duty, and backing each other up 
        to make sure that postings to this group will be approved as soon 
        as possible after they're submitted.

        Submissions to this group should be mailed to the address:
                linux-announce@tc.cornell.edu

        If you have any problems or questions about c.o.l.announce, please 
        send mail to the moderators at
                linux-announce-request@tc.cornell.edu
        Or simply mail us directly. This is not a request address for 
        mailing list subscription; see below.

        A separate posting details the guidelines for submitting to this 
        group.  I plan to approve just about anything that's posted to this 
        group, except for questions or discussions about Linux. So, please, 
        post away.  :)

        There are also archives of comp.os.linux.announce available at a 
        number of Linux FTP sites: check 
                sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/Linux/docs/linux-announce.archive

        There is a mailing list mirror of the comp.os.linux.announce 
        newsgroup; to join, send mail to
                linux-activists-request@niksula.hut.fi
        With the line
                X-Mn-Admin: join ANNOUNCE
        at the top of the body (not in the subject). Approved postings to 
        c.o.l.announce will automatically be mailed to this mailing list 
        channel.


comp.os.linux.admin     
=========================================================================
        This newsgroup was created simply to thwart the unique newsgroup
        acronym "c.o.l.a", previously used by c.o.l.announce. However,
        this newsgroup is also used for discussions and questions about
        running Linux systems, either in a single-user or multi-user
        environment.

        Clearly, there is no large distinction between c.o.l.admin and
        c.o.l.help. However, .admin should be mostly used for discussions
        about RUNNING Linux, not USING or PROGRAMMING it. Unfortunately,
        especially with Linux, the line between system administrator and
        system user is very fuzzy. In short, we anticipate c.o.l.admin
        to be mostly about questions with installing, setting up, and
        configuring Linux systems, as well as other discussions relating
        to system administration. 


comp.os.linux.development
=========================================================================
        c.o.l.development, or "c.o.l.d" for short, is a newsgroup for 
        questions and discussions about Linux kernel and systems-level 
        development. Please note that this is a newsgroup about 
        development OF Linux, not development FOR Linux. In other words, 
        c.o.l.d isn't for questions about programming or porting software 
        to Linux. Instead, this is a newsgroup for discussions about 
        developing the Linux kernel itself, including writing device 
        drivers, adding new features, and so on. In addition, discussions
        about development of shared libraries, and other essential 
        systems-level projects, are welcome here. 

        Hopefully, this newsgroup will embody some of the content and
        scope of the linux-activists mailing list channels such as GCC, 
        KERNEL, SCSI, and NET.


comp.os.linux.help
=========================================================================
        Comp.os.linux.help is perhaps the most general of Linux 
        newsgroups. It is for any general user, programming, or 
        setup questions and discussion about Linux. If your question
        is about Linux development, post to c.o.l.development. If
        it is about system administration, post to c.o.l.admin. 
        However, if your question is of a more general nature, such
        as "How do I set up Linux for use with an NE2000 card?",
        c.o.l.help is your place. 

        Remember that you should not crosspost between .help and
        other Linux newsgroups. This means that if you are asking for
        help in .development, that's fine, but .help is for those
        questions which don't fit into .admin and .development.


comp.os.linux.misc
=========================================================================
        This group is the canonical ``catch-all'' for discussions and 
        questions which don't fit into the other Linux newsgroups.
        While c.o.l.help is generally for questions, c.o.l.misc is for
        discussions of a general nature about Linux, such as setting up
        a file hierarchy standard, questions about Linus' personal life
        and virtual beer, and the inevitable flame war. Again, it should 
        be noted that crossposting between c.o.l.misc and other Linux 
        newsgroups is strongly discouraged. If your posting or question 
        does not fit into ONLY ONE of the other Linux newsgroups, post 
        it to .misc.


Comments
=========================================================================
        If you have questions or comments about this document, please
        direct them to mdw@sunsite.unc.edu. Flames to /dev/null; cheques
        and money orders to Linus Torvalds. Thanks.


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.security.unix
From: dsiebert@icaen.uiowa.edu ()
Subject: Re: Term == SLIP ?
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 1994 06:38:32 GMT

doolitt@cebaf4.cebaf.gov (Larry Doolittle) writes:

>In article <2hgvuv$65h@thermal.ceas.rochester.edu>,

>> But that doesn't mean that system administrators should just ignore or
>> blindly encourage the use of term. Term provides the ability for a
>> user to make his/her Linux system accessible over the internet,
>> including providing ftp and telnet access. This means that an
>> insecurely run Linux system, running term, is now a great back door
>> into your system.

>Come again?  Sure, a cracker can use the "mainframe" as a back door
>from the internet into a loosely secured Linux box running term,
>but that is no skin off the sysadmin of the mainframe.  The worst
>case scenario is they can connect back in to the mainframe with
>the priviledge of the Linux-box-sysadmin, and do damage to that
>poor schmuck's files.  The security system of the mainframe
>is *not* compromised.  If a cracker can spoof the system via
>Linux and term, it is because there are other holes as well
>that do not require that channel.  I suppose it *could* provide
>a break in the obvious audit trail for failed crack attempts.


It is a security problem for two reasons:

1)  A .rhosts from the user's Linux box into the "mainframe", for many systems
    once you get a shell on the remote system is a quick work to become root.

2)  A Linux box in a net behind a firewall.  Maybe telnet and other regular
    ports to the "mainframe" are blocked at the router.  A guy sets up his
    Linux box with some higher numbered port not always blocked by firewalls
    as a telnet server, and then the attacker can attack machines inside the
    firewall from inside, where no ports are blocked.  So much for the
    firewall!


Doug Siebert || dsiebert@isca.uiowa.edu   ||  Defeat Usenet spool grepping!
Kibo Turkey Greece Macedonia Perl Watcom Mason Clinton Illuminati Fnord Hastur

------------------------------

From: vince@victrola.wa.com (Vince Skahan)
Subject: Re: uucp 1.04 - looking for tester, _complete_ (better)version
Date: 18 Jan 1994 21:14:59 -0800

[...sigh...yet another one...let me preface by saying:
        - I like Taylor UUCP
        - I like Ian Taylor
        - this is not a flame
        - I'm all for helping newbies
        - I'm sure your release will be fine work...]

andreas@knobel.knirsch.de (Andreas Klemm) writes:
>I'm looking for test sites for my taylor uucp package.
>Compared with other uucp packages it's _complete_, has good default 
>configuration and comes with the taylor uucp contributed software ...

I just don't see what the value of all this work is.

>o  I have made efforts to create *well documented* configuration
>   files, to make uucp configuration easier for ``newbees'' 
>   and ``oldbees'', too ;-)

The example HDB ones I provided for SLS and that are in the UUCP HOWTO
work just fine as is.  Drop in your system name, phone number, username,
and password and they should work for 99% of the systems out there.

I've heard from Ed Carp that the next LGX is supposed to be perfectly
configured and install-time-configurable.  I've offered my newspak stuff to
Patrick for Slackware and he (and anybody else) is of course able and
encouraged to grab it from sunsite to have plug-n-play config files that
they can put into place and type 'make' for their particular installation.

HDB is fully documented in about every elementary unix communications
book you'll ever find.  Please find me one that documents Taylor mode.

So what work is really needed ?

Want to come up with a quickie install script that asks the questions
that need to be asked and stream edits the Taylor config files into
the user's choice of V2, HDB, or Taylor config files ?  Now that would
add significant value.  Reinventing the wheel and typing 'make' to
sources that require no patching adds no value that I can see.

>o  My package offers faster data transfer rates ( >50 Bytes/sec.)
>   in comparison to the original package (using G proto).
>   I would be interested in hearing if YOU made the same
>   experiences...

Huh ?  Have you hacked the vanilla sources to the released Taylor 1.04
or are you just turning the 'i' protocol on as a (poorly chosen) default ?

If you've hacked the sources, I sure wouldn't use it.  The standard 
released sources work just fine and I'd rather be able to drop Ian a
line to understand what's going on in the remote possibility that there
is a major problem.

If you made something other than 'g' the default protocol, you've hurt
portability and the ability to connect to non-Linux boxes that have
something other than Taylor as their UUCP.

If you just ignore the issue and let Taylor negotiate the protocol, it'll
do the right thing.  Ian did a fine job with what's there now in the 1.04
sources...

>o  I used Taylor Configuration instead of BNU/HDB. I think this offers 
>   more advantages since this way it's possible to make use of the 
>   contributed software, that comes with taylor uucp 1.04:

you're kidding right ?

you're inflicting the extremely non-standard Taylor-mode config files
on newbies to get them a few utilities that already exist for HDB mode ?

I don't understand.

You're delivering a non-standard setup to new uucp users and expecting
them to read texinfo stuff online rather than having them drop a dime on
the Linux networking guide (for free) or the O'Reilly books (small cost) ?

And this is to permit use of a few utilities that have dozens of existing
variants for HDB config files already ?

I guess I'm missing something...

When I took Ed Carp's mailpak and stole liberally from it :-) [...hi Ed...]
to integrate his uucp/mail with the news stuff I assembled and it made it
into SLS1.01, I selected HDB mode for many, many reasons.

I've taken the liberty to include the following mail message that was my
reply to Peter regarding why I gave him uucp in HDB mode for SLS 1.01.  The
questions in the attached was from a SLS user (not Peter) asking why not
Taylor.  The reply is from me to both he and Peter.

#============== begin excerpt ======================

From vince Thu Jan 28 16:56:40 1993
Subject: Re: why have uucp in BNU mode ?

> My question is now, why do you compile the Taylor-UUCP with the BNU-CONFIG 
> files. Wouldn't it be better to use the Taylor Config.
> The reasons are:
>       1 The documentation is only for the Taylor Config files.
>               (uucp-info*)
>       2 You can, if you want, define BNU Config files in the Taylor-CONFIG.
>         So if someone would like it, he can use it.
>       3 Like me, it wouldn't be so hard to understand what is happening.
>         I have the O'reilly book (Managing UUCP and the Usenet). But it's
>         not so easy to understand.
>       4 In BNU you can only define the packet-size at compile time.
>         WIth Taylor you can define it in the Config-Files.
> 

I think the uucp should be configured in Honey DanBer mode just like it is
currently for that following reasons:

        - Taylor UUCP is totally nonstandard, yet there are tens of 
                thousands of HDB systems out there. It is *THE* standard.
        - accordingly, there are also thousands of experienced admins
                who can help debug it
        - it's fully documented in quite a number of books including
                (but not only) the O-Reilly and Associates series and
                the how-to-administer manuals of every *nix I've seen
                at work, which includes all the major vendors.
        - no vendor I'm aware of provides Taylor UUCP anywhere. 
        - C-news/smail/elm play together perfectly with the HDB mode,
                yet they do not expect the strange Taylor format.
        - defining non-default packet sizes for uucico is a very dangerous
                thing that can result in your system crashing the remote
                system, depending on which software each side runs.

I see absolutely zero value in switching from BNU (HDB) format to anything
else and I also see considerable risk in doing so.  As far as the SLS
news/mail stuff I've provided, I do not plan on configuring them to support
anything other than BNU...but of course the sources are available on
sunsite.unc.edu so users 'could' customize things if they are so inclined.

#============== end excerpt ========================================
-- 
     ---------- Vince Skahan --------- vince@victrola.wa.com -------------
     "When you can get your customer to tatoo your name on their chest,
      it is unlikely that they will change brands"
           - Indiana Univ. of PA professor about Harley Davidson owners

------------------------------

From: paai@kub.nl (J.J. Paijmans)
Subject: Linux in southern Holland.
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 09:11:39 GMT

( Sorry for writing dutch. Still I did not specify nlnet distribution
because some people from abroad expressed interest in the first message.
If you must know: it is about a Linux-day in Tilburg, Holland).


      De activisten van het ITK kondigen aan:

                   de eerste

       > > > >       LINUX       < < < <
 
              (mid)dag op de KUB.
 

      Donderdag 3 februari vanaf 13:30 in AZ 6.

=====================================================================
Wat is Linux?

Linux is een Unix-kloon voor de zwaardere PC's. Een typische
Linux-distributie bestaat uit de kernel, TCP/IP, X Windows en de hele
stapel GNU software, inclusief Emacs en TeX. De minimale hardware om
lekker mee te werken bestaat uit een 80386DX met 8 meg intern en 100 Meg
harde disk. Linux op een 80486/66 en flink wat RAM levert een
workstation dat de functionaliteit en prestaties van bijvoorbeeld een
SUN overtreft voor slechts een fractie van de prijs.

Voor wie is de open (mid)dag bedoeld?

We nodigen in eerste instantie KUB-medewerkers uit die uit
belangstelling of uit hoofde van hun functie meer met computers doen dan
alleen WP starten, maar belangstellenden van buiten de KUB zijn
nadrukkelijk welkom. De nadruk zal liggen op een eerste kennismaking met
Linux en Unix.

Wat is er op die open (mid)dag te doen?

Een vijftal enthousiastelingen van binnen en buiten de KUB zal verslag
uitbrengen van hun ervaringen met Linux. Van buiten reken we op de heren
Wim Haver (over het installeren van TCP/IP), Hans Oeij (een nationale
Linux activist) en P. van Laarhoven (over X clients op Linux). Van
binnen de KUB Jeroen Bosters en Jeroen Hoppenbrouwers, beiden van het
Infolab.

Verder zetten we een paar PC's met verschillende Linux-distributies
neer, waaronder de CD uitgave van Yggdrasil met heeeele mooie
demonstructies.

Aan het eind van de middag biedt het ITK een al dan niet alcoholische versnapering aan.

Hans Paijmans.



------------------------------

From: ganter@fvkmapc02.tu-graz.ac.at (Fritz Ganter)
Subject: Re: Why is emacs19 so slow on slackware 1.1.1 ?
Date: 16 Jan 1994 03:55:14 GMT

Dan Newcombe (dnewcomb@cybernet.cse.fau.edu) wrote:
: quinlan@spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu (Daniel Quinlan) writes:
: > jaffer@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Aubrey Jaffer) said:
: > > I just upgraded from SLS 1.01 to slackware 1.1.1.  I notice that
: > > emacs19 seems to run much more slowly than emacs18.  I have checked
: > > with ps that there are no rogue processes running.  Query-replace,
: > > undo, and manual-entry are where I notice it most.  My machine is
: > > not paging during these operations.  It runs X and has 16M.
: > Emacs 19 is slow, period.  It is *not* a problem with Slackware or
: > Linux.  Take it to "comp.emacs.*".
: > Can't people learn that "comp.os.linux.*" is NOT for every single
: > little problem they have on their machine?  The Linux newsgroups are
: > for Linux-specific problems.

: Ah, but contrary to good scientific experimentation, Aubrey changed two
: variables at once. (SLS->Slackware, emacs18->emacs19).   Therefore it could
: have been either change that caused it.  So he was right in posting it here.

: Now back to whether Slackware Linux is the Devils work...
:  (simple answer : No, the devil already has an OS.  It's called Windows.)
No, he doesn't. He has only a bootvirus and a shell (DOS and Windows).
:-)
Fritz

:   
: --
: Dan Newcombe         dnewcomb@cybernet.cse.fau.edu      and many others...
: "The fool who escaped from paradise will look over his shoulder and cry."
:                                 -Marillion, "Script for a Jesters Tear"


--

Fritz Ganter                    Graz University of Technology, Austria
Email:  ganter@fvkmapc02.tu-graz.ac.at, ganter@fvkmads02.tu-graz.ac.at
HAM-Radio:                OE6FAD@OE6XYG.AUT.EU, OE6FAD@OE6FAD.AMPR.ORG 
Phone:                +43 316 873-7222 (Office), +43 316 663243 (home)
   **********      Linux... try it, use it, love it.      ************

------------------------------

From: ganter@fvkmapc02.tu-graz.ac.at (Fritz Ganter)
Subject: Re: serious comment about satan in /dev/mem
Date: 17 Jan 1994 02:59:52 GMT

Derek Jones (derek@aivru.shef.ac.uk) wrote:

: I have done a strings /dev/mem | grep -i satan and as mentioned
: discovered a number of occurences. (not as many as the several hundred
: mentioned by a previous poster.) However, a couple that particularly made me
: sit up and look were the following (from a purely technical point of view):

: # mail any output to `satan' no matter whose crontab this is
: MAILTO=satan

: A search of /etc/crond does not reveal this message. I am not particularly
You find it in /usr/spool/cron/crontabs/root

: worried about the supposed "satanism" aspect of this, (BTW the biblical 
: references to 666 in revelation are that a.) it is the number of man and 
: b.) that knowing this is a comfort to Christians. If you ask yourself why -
: it's because of satan's ultimate defeat. That's what revelation is all 
: about***), rather the fact that all mail from crontab is supposedly redirected 
: to a user name I have removed . . .

: Any ideas?

: ***I'm not saying I wouldn't do something more drastic about perhaps removing
: Slackware on the machines I run it on but that having followed this discussion
: with some despair at ignorance, *and* technical interest I see no immediate 
: reason to do so. I have enjoyed using what seems to me to be pretty stable
: release.

: kind regards

: Derek
: --
: Derek Jones.
: System Manager.
: A.I. Vision Research Unit, Sheffield University, Western Bank,
: Sheffield.  S10 2TN. U.K.                                          
: Tel: (+44) (0)742 826551  email:  D.G.Jones@aivru.sheffield.ac.uk
: FAX: (+44) (0)742 766515


--

Fritz Ganter                    Graz University of Technology, Austria
Email:  ganter@fvkmapc02.tu-graz.ac.at, ganter@fvkmads02.tu-graz.ac.at
HAM-Radio:                OE6FAD@OE6XYG.AUT.EU, OE6FAD@OE6FAD.AMPR.ORG 
Phone:                +43 316 873-7222 (Office), +43 316 663243 (home)
   **********      Linux... try it, use it, love it.      ************

------------------------------


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