From wang!elf.wang.com!ucsd.edu!packet-radio-relay Fri Feb 15 15:51:53 1991 remote from tosspot Received: by tosspot (1.63/waf) via UUCP; Sun, 17 Feb 91 18:05:25 EST for lee Received: from somewhere by elf.wang.com id aa00266; Fri, 15 Feb 91 15:51:52 GMT Received: from ucsd.edu by uunet.uu.net (5.61/1.14) with SMTP id AA19862; Fri, 15 Feb 91 09:46:31 -0500 Received: by ucsd.edu; id AA14866 sendmail 5.64/UCSD-2.1-sun Fri, 15 Feb 91 04:30:13 -0800 for hpbbrd!db0sao!dg4scv Received: by ucsd.edu; id AA14857 sendmail 5.64/UCSD-2.1-sun Fri, 15 Feb 91 04:30:07 -0800 for /usr/lib/sendmail -oc -odb -oQ/var/spool/lqueue -oi -fpacket-radio-relay packet-radio-list Message-Id: <9102151230.AA14857@ucsd.edu> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 91 04:30:04 PST From: Packet-Radio Mailing List and Newsgroup Reply-To: Packet-Radio@ucsd.edu Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #44 To: packet-radio@ucsd.edu Packet-Radio Digest Fri, 15 Feb 91 Volume 91 : Issue 44 Today's Topics: 'To:' field anarchy! budlist Converse Node EPROM for TNC2 packet<--->internet<--->packet gateway - my proposal Packet BEGINNER needs info (2 msgs) Shareware over packet? Send Replies or notes for publication to: Send subscription requests to: Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu. Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available (by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio". We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 7 Feb 91 12:27:16 GMT From: munnari.oz.au!manuel!csc.canberra.edu.au!echo!skcm@uunet.uu.net (Carl Makin) Subject: 'To:' field anarchy! To: packet-radio@ucsd.edu In <1991Feb6.190903.1295@axion.bt.co.uk> blloyd@axion.bt.co.uk (Brian Lloyd) writes: >be a good place to work out something better. I've added an LG command >(List Group) to my software which lists all the TO `groups' and the number >of messages in each group. You can also type LG group_name (eg LG RAYNET) This sounds like a good idea but I wonder at how much use it will get. You always have your intelligent user who is interested in getting the most out of the command set (I have perhaps 3 out of 60 users. :-( ) but the general amateur population seem to learn (perhaps) 4 commands and stick to them. The commands seem to be L, LL n, R n and K n. Putting up another command, while it would be usefull, will probably be wasted. >had hoped to tighten things up as people got used to the idea. If anyone's >got any better ideas, though, I'd be interested to hear them. For the present we have to maintain some compatability with the present structure (as painful as that is). This shouldn't be too hard. I would like to see a simple menuing system similar to OPUS telephone BBSs. ie; VK1KCM BBS Main Menu M)essage Areas F)iles Areas S)ystem Bulletins C)hange User Parameters B)ye (Logoff) and so on. The same for the File and Message menus. Some form of "Tagging" messages for later reading. Nothing I'm saying here is new. It's been around for years on OPUS Telephone BBSs and in various News readers. I have played about with placing telephone BBSs on packet. QuickBBS (once I disabled the hotkeys. :-) and Maximus. They both worked reasonably well despite the keys being echoed and I had quite favourable comments from those users who noticed I had a second BBS beaconing away and tried it. :-) Carl vk1kcm@vk1kcm.act.aus.oc skcm@echo.canberra.edu.au 3:620/241.7 (There may be another .sig at the end. If there is then sorry. I'm new. :-) ------------------------------ Date: 7 Feb 91 12:57:39 GMT From: munnari.oz.au!manuel!csc.canberra.edu.au!echo!skcm@uunet.uu.net (Carl Makin) Subject: budlist To: packet-radio@ucsd.edu In <31248@wd6ehr.ampr.org> wd6ehr@wd6ehr.ampr.org (Mike Curtis (818) 765-2857) writes: >Most of these postings aren't worth the ether they use up, id est >"for sale - 100 foot tower - you remove", etc., or "for sale - 50 >Icom H-T's - call Joe at the Ham Store" (well, he might as well word >it as such - it's obvious to all of us what's going on here :-). Absolutely NO disposals or for sales are allowed in Australia. We have had similar problems with our ALL@VKNET and @ASIA destinations though. >If the user were prompted to "register" before being permitted to >send multi-destination mail, and were forced to read through some >common-sense rules and AGREE TO ABIDE BY THEM, a lot of these >problems would be eliminated. Look at how many @allus messages >are sent out of simple ignorance. This I agree with. I'd love the ability to assign security levels to users with attendant differing help levels and privledges. Perhaps this should be included in our definitation of a new user interface discussion that has been going on. We've been talking about segregating groups (areas/newsgroups etc) and slapping destination controls on would be simplicity itself to this sort of interface. Perhaps this just highlights how inadequate the current BBS system really is. Carl. vk1kcm@vk1kcm.act.aus.oc skcm@echo.canberra.edu.au 3:620/241.7 ------------------------------ Date: 7 Feb 91 02:55:26 GMT From: ubc-cs!alberta!alberta!adec23!aunro!ve6mgs!mark@beaver.cs.washington.edu (Mark Salyzyn) Subject: Converse Node EPROM for TNC2 To: packet-radio@ucsd.edu Can anyone provide me with information about the Converse Node. A local Gentleman (VE6HIM) asked me and I could not provide him with any information. E-mail replies to ...!aunro!ve6mgs!ve6him or ...!alberta!adec23!mark would be appreciated. Thanks in Advance, 73 de VE6MGS/Mark -sk- ------------------------------ Date: 13 Feb 91 06:28:58 GMT From: emory!samsung!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!src.honeywell.com!msi.umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!kksys!edgar!brainiac!jrc@gatech.edu (Jeffrey Comstock) Subject: packet<--->internet<--->packet gateway - my proposal To: packet-radio@ucsd.edu In article <266@platypus.uofs.edu> bill@platypus.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > >In the case of PrepNet, it would be a definite violation of the Acceptable >Use Policy. I am also quite certain (although I have not read the applicable >papers) that this would apply to The NSFNET and any other regional connected >to it. The rules might be different for commercial connections, but that >greatly limits the possible connection points. Who says ? It sounds like some very hardcore networking research, and it's non profit ( by law ) to boot. What more can you ask for ? ------------------------------ Date: 7 Feb 91 10:22:40 GMT From: milton!siemion@beaver.cs.washington.edu (John Siemion) Subject: Packet BEGINNER needs info To: packet-radio@ucsd.edu Hi, I am an Electrical Engineer and would like to set up my own packet radio data communications system (preferably with a laptop). I don't have a radio license yet or know much about the procedures to go about getting one. Could you give me some items to take care of so I can get started? Example information needed: all hardware required, suggested items to buy ( <$500 ) required and suggested reading materials steps necessary to get a license (can I simply take the technician class test or do I have to take the novice first and work up to technician class?...should I even opt for a higher class than technician?) access to the Internet/UUCP networks typical/maximum data rates possible is a completely portable unit possible? what kinds of connections are possible with what countries? Thanks in advance. :-) Please respond by email if you can. John Siemion Internet: siemion@u.washington.edu FidoNet: 1:343/15 (John Siemion) ------------------------------ Date: 7 Feb 91 15:10:28 GMT From: munnari.oz.au!manuel!coombs!dan666@uunet.uu.net (Daniel Carosone) Subject: Packet BEGINNER needs info To: packet-radio@ucsd.edu siemion@milton.u.washington.edu (John Siemion) writes: [novice questions] >Please respond by email if you can. Please post, or at least email me too. I am also interested in these questions. -- Dan. email best site: danielce@ecr.mu.oz.au or try: dan@maria.wustl.edu dan666@coombs.anu.edu.au ------------------------------ Date: 15 Feb 91 04:04:58 GMT From: ucivax!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Clark Turner) Subject: Shareware over packet? To: packet-radio@ucsd.edu In article <978@wells.UUCP> k3tx@wells.UUCP (Dave Heller) writes: >In article <27B97A19.15785@ics.uci.edu>, turner@ics.uci.edu (Clark Turner) writes: ...(deleted stuff)... >> is and is not a "business activity" in a legal sense can be quite a >> complicated issue in a commercial case. To act as an [informed] attorney, >> I need to know the language used, the relevant definitions, and the >> standards laid down by the relevant ruling agency. If anyone has such things >> --- I would love the references. I am building a file of Amateur radio >> legal information so that if called upon by my local club or friend [who >> is not about to spend thousands of dollars just to improve the ARS], I may >> be of some service. >> WA3JPG quite as comfortably in the circuits > > > >This sounds like a lawyer talking. Indeed. I have been a lawyer for a miniscule part of my life. Otherwise, I am a good and kind, and semi-intelligent human being. I support ham radio wherever and whenever I can for free. >Your call indicates you've been an >amateur for at least 25 years, and Yes. I have been licensed for quite nearly that amount of time. I have not been active for all that time. I have not had the money to keep up with the latest, and for most of the time, have not been able to afford any equipment at all. I have been employed as a teacher (of math and computer science) and researcher basically. Currently I am a software engineering researcher and make enough to feed myself and maintain one HT that I got by doing side work in network research. >presumably you've kept up with the >popular literature, read QST regularly, >etc. Not so. I have had other duties call, and have, on occasion, even shied away from the hobby because it was so hard to get a decent conversation other than about someone's new Japanese radio equipment, or I had too hard a time with QRM. Not like it used to be. >So you should know that any attempt by >the Amateurs openly to attempt to defy >the Great God FCC leads to problems that >have a nasty habit of doing far more harm >than good. This is patently false. I have seen some good come from challenging the FCC, albeit only occasionally. Ask the League. They have accomplished some things. > >A little common sense tells one whether a >subject is business or not, and if it is >the rules say "lay off". Again, this may be a good rule of thumb, but if MY FRIEND or NEIGHBOR ham is hauled in by the FCC with a challenge to his "business use" of ham radio - I intend to be quite ready to help him/her with the relevant rules and be able to cite similar cases where they exist. This is how America runs. It is not necessarily opposed to "common sense", complicated or expensive. It frequently is not any of these. I work this way., > >Experience shows that for the FCC there's no >Gray Area. Ask them a question on some >ill-defined subject and the answer is always >NO. Again, I don't find this true or helpful. > >If a subject looks questionable (and this one >about shareware vs public domain certainly >fills the definition) and you really want an >intelligent, and probably informed, answer, >go to the League. This is probably a good thing to do, since I am getting no helpful responses here, and am getting a lot of the opposite for my mere interest in the topic. > >The best you can accomplish by pestering FCC >is to screw things up for everyone else. > No one here suggests pestering the FCC. I don't understand where you got this. I want to be able to advise the local, naive amateurs in matters that may be solved simply with some informed common sense, which is what I am after. >Don't we have enough problems as it is already? >Look at that crap coming from Norfolk to such >as W3IWI and some others who rank with the >best Amateur Radio can call its own. I am not familiar with the case. It sounds as though I wouldn't be involved. > >Don't stir up problems where none exist. Read >the rules, Part 97, and try hard to abide with >their spirit, and all will (or should) be fine. I don't do this and I resent the automatic assumption that I was about to, sir. I seek to do just the opposite, and ANY person who knows me will attest to. The advice to read part 97 and common sense is, of course, a good start. I already knew that part. > >If you want some lawyer business, go chase an >ambulance. Leave Amateur Radio out of it. Your characterization of "lawyer business" is that of a naive person who doesn't know much except the popular incantations of uninformed people. Ambulance chasing is not what I do, sir, and, again, your insinuation is an insult. I have done very little lawyering, mostly for free for amateurs who have local ordinances to deal with for antenna restrictions. I am damned proud of that. I intend to continue. I do not cause problems, I am called upon AFTER they arise and try to solve them quickly (outside the legal process first), but if someone is being trampled, I will use the force of the law to help them. That, again, is what America is about. If, perhaps, you wish to correspond on this topic, we should probably do it outside the net here in the future. Write me via e-mail or even snail if you wish. I would be happy to discuss the general issues further. Clark ---------- Clark S. Turner "The Buddha, the Godhead, resides WA3JPG quite as comfortably in the circuits turner@ics.uci.edu of a digital computer or the gears ---------- of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robt. Pirsig ---------- 714 856 2131 1514 Verano Pl., Irvine, CA. 92715 admitted to practice law in NY, MA, and CA. ---------- ------------------------------ End of Packet-Radio Digest ******************************