**************************************************************************** >C O M P U T E R U N D E R G R O U N D< >D I G E S T< *** Volume 2, Issue #2.19 (December 31, 1990) ** **************************************************************************** MODERATORS: Jim Thomas / Gordon Meyer (TK0JUT2@NIU.bitnet) ARCHIVISTS: Bob Krause / Alex Smith / Bob Kusumoto RESIDENT RAPMASTER: Brendan Kehoe USENET readers can currently receive CuD as alt.society.cu-digest. COMPUTER UNDERGROUND DIGEST is an open forum dedicated to sharing information among computerists and to the presentation and debate of diverse views. CuD material may be reprinted as long as the source is cited. Some authors, however, do copyright their material, and those authors should be contacted for reprint permission. It is assumed that non-personal mail to the moderators may be reprinted unless otherwise specified. Readers are encouraged to submit reasoned articles relating to the Computer Underground. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ DISCLAIMER: The views represented herein do not necessarily represent the views of the moderators. Contributors assume all responsibility for assuring that articles submitted do not violate copyright protections. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ From: Ed Hopper Subject: Michigan Bell vs BBSs Date: Mon, 31 Dec 90 23:49:03 CST Organization: Ed Hopper's BBS - Houston, Texas 713-997-7575 ******************************************************************** *** CuD #2.19: File 4 of 7: Michigan Bell vs. BBSs *** ******************************************************************** From: TELECOM Digest Tue, 1 Jan 91 03:46:40 CST Volume 11 : Issue 1 (Note: I am sending this on behalf of Bruce Wilson.) From the FACTS BBS in Flint, Michigan, by way of the Vehicle City BBS in Davison, Michigan: On January 15, 1991, an administrative hearing will be held before the Michigan Public Service Commission to discuss a complaint filed against Michigan Bell Telephone Company. Early this year, a private bulletin board in Grosse Point, called the Variety and Spice BBS, was ordered to pay an increased charge for phone service because it was discovered he was accepting donations for use of his BBS. This BBS ran on an IBM, and supports sixteen separate lines. Although a portion of the BBS was open to the public, most of the BBS (including an "adult file" area, were restricted to those who sent a donation to the BBS. The money collected didn't even come close to the actual cost of running such a BBS. Michigan Bell claims that placing any condition on the use of a BBS constitutes a business, and that the sysop must pay a business rate for his phone line, plus pay a $100 deposit for EACH LINE in use. This means the Variety and Spice sysop would have to pay a $1600 deposit, plus about $50 additional each month if he wanted to continue his BBS. The sysop refused to pay this fee, so Michigan Bell disconnect his lines. The sysop filed a complaint with the MPSC. Until this case was heard, he decided to re-install the phone lines (at a considerable cost to himself). If Michigan Bell wins this case, they will require every BBS sysop to pay business rates for each of their lines, if it is determined that the BBS is accepting fees or donations. The Variety and Spice sysop claims that MBT considers requiring users to upload files or post messages (ie upload/download ratios) the same as a donation, and will require the sysop to upgrade his line to a business line whether money was exchanged or not. However, in an interview I did in March, I talked to the chief spokesman of MBT, who claimed that this was not the case. Only if money is accepted will MBT demand the sysop pay business rate. The important thing here is that AT THIS TIME, these are the rules that MBT believes is in the tariff. If Variety and Spice loses this case, it is conceivable that MBT can request further restrictions to be placed. At this hearing, the public will be allowed to voice their opinions and comments. This applies to both sysops and users. If MBT wins this case it can cause serious restrictions to be place on BBS's, and will set a precedence for other phone companies around the country to follow. Your help is urgently needed!! Please try to attend this hearing. It will be held at the Public Service Building, 6545 Merchant Way, Lansing, Michigan. The date is January 15. I do not have the exact time but I assume this hearing will last most of the day. You do not have to testify, but it would really be helpful if you can attend as a show of support. The MPSC does not think the Michigan public even cares about BBS's. But we can certainly jar their thinking if we can pack the room with sysops and users! For more information, please contact Jerry Cross at 313-736-4544 (voice) or 313-736-3920 (bbs). You can also contact the sysop of the Variety & Spice BBS at 313-885-8377. Please! We need your support. Notes from Ed Hopper: In our case against Southwestern Bell, the same cockeyed logic was applied. For a brief period, Southwestern Bell also maintained that the requirement of file uploads was, in and of itself, cause for them to declare a BBS to be a business because it required something "of value" for access. We were able to force Southwestern Bell to see things in a more moderate tone. Recently, I had the opportunity to testify before the Texas PUC regarding the Texas BBS case. In that testimony, I stated that the telcos draw all sorts of extreme scenarios in which the provision of residential service to BBS systems is against the public good. Their argument goes: "If we allow them to have residential service, it will upset the equations and raise the cost of telecommunications services to everyone." However, there is not a BBS on every block, or even one in every subdivision, and no rational observer would ever expect that to be the case. There is, however, cause for most rational observers to believe that the increased cost of business service, including it's increased burden in the area of deposits and installation charges, could cause the closing of many BBS outlets. This, truly, would not be in the public good. Ed Hopper President The Coalition of Sysops and Users Against Rate Discrimination BBS: 713-997-7575 ehopper@attmail.com ehopper@ehpcb.wlk.com **************************** [%Telecom Digest% Moderator's Note: The problem of course is that the telephone company only has two basic rates: a rate for residence/personal communications and a rate for all else, which they term 'business phones'. Where Ed's counter-argument fails is that while there are not BBS's on every block, neither are there churches and charities on every block -- yet they pay full business rates, as do social service hotline, information and referral services. Are BBS information providers to be treated differently than dial-a-prayer lines which run on business phones, or the proverbial "Battered Women's Shelter outgoing phone line where the calls can't be traced" which also pays business rates? Here are some questions you may wish to give response to: Should there be a third rate category made available, covering charitable and religious organizations? Should this third rate category be available to all not-for-profit phone services such as BBS lines and social service referral numbers or hotlines? If BBS operators who charge money got such a rate, should Compuserve or GEnie also be allowed to use the same rate? Should telco be the one to audit the revenues and decide which computer sites should be treated as 'business' and which should be 'charitable organization'? Is it the fault of telco if the BBS operator does not charge enough money to make a profit? Where is the line to be drawn? Answers? PAT] ******************************************************************** >> END OF THIS FILE << ***************************************************************************  Downloaded From P-80 International Information Systems 304-744-2253 12yrs+