------------------------------ From: Various Subject: Response to DEA/PBX News Story Date: November 29, 1990 ******************************************************************** *** CuD #2.14: File 8 of 8: Responses to DEA/PBX News story *** ******************************************************************** From: Defensor Vindex Subject: Response to Joe Abernathy's article in CuD 2.13 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 90 21:49:44 cst Mr. Abernathy: This response is to your column about the theft of telephone services, recently reprinted (with your permission, as I understand it) by the Computer Underground Digest. I agree that a major theft, including a theft of telephone services, is news. As such, it was entirely legitimate for you to write your story. What I find disturbing is your use of the generic term "hacker" for any criminal or alleged criminal that knows how to spell electron or technical. It inflames without informing. Unfortunately, it appears to sell papers. My complaint is probably useless, since language is constantly evolving, but it still disturbs me that a misunderstood part of our society is defamed needlessly. Sorta like Asimov (as Dr. X) wrote in "The Sensuous Dirty Old Man" a few years ago, wrote about the meaning of "gay": [ paraphrased with apologies ] "The dictionary says 'gay' means 'excited with merriment, lighthearted.' So you go up to an NFL linebacker who's just made his fourth sack of the day and is obviously 'excited with merriment, lighthearted,' and you say: 'You're gay, aren't you?' "Whether he is or he isn't, you'll almost certainly be surprised by the response." "Hacker", like "gay", is perhaps becoming redefined--no matter what its roots, it is acquiring a new meaning and life of its own, and true "hackers" may need to find a new label (unfortunately, it, too will likely be subverted), but I wish you wouldn't sensationalize ordinary theft in order to carry out a private crusade. Besides, those crooks weren't "hackers," no matter what they called themselves. At best they were "phone phreaks." And Joe, by now you ought to know the difference. ************************************* From: Jack Minard Subject: I have in my hand a list of hackers.... Date: Wed, 28 Nov 90 11:42:57 cst (Sigh!). Why does CuD print articles from Joe Abernathy? His articles on the Great Porno Netscam have hurt the entire electronic community, and he hasn't made many friends with this latest article. It's another scare story about hackers (and others?) and gives only one side of hackers. Here's what pisses me off about the article. No self-respecting hacker is going to rip-off, especially after Sun Devil. Technically, the people breaking into the DEA's pbx were fone phreaks, hardly the same as hackers. But does Tail-gunner Joe check? No, he just tosses out a label that the public finds sexy and convenient. Doesn't he realize how inaccurate and simplistic his story is? Maybe somebody originally hacked out the PBX number and gave it out, but once somebody gets the number there's no need to hack. It's a contradiction in terms, and ripping off a L-D company by carding just ain't hacking. Repeat: THAT AIN'T HACKING! Where does this $1.8 million cost come from? I think he just multiplied 18 months by the $100,000 figure that an "Arizona Prosecutor" game him. At about a quarter a minute, it would take 9.25 kids dialing 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for 18 months to run up this figure. Why didn't our hard-hitting investigative reporter start asking some obvious questions like either how can so much be done so long so often by so many or why couldn't the DEA figure out something was wrong if there was so much use? Dimes to donuts says the prosecutor he quoted was Gail Thakeray, always a good source for exaggeration when it comes to hacker hysteria. Why didn't he try to check out these figures? What do they mean? I think carders are scum, but I also think they are accused of trumped up charges. The disuse doctrine might be debated, but using ld lines isn't quite the same thing as stealing them. If the crime is so serious, why did it take 18 months to find it out, and then only incidentally during the investigation of another crime? Didn't our intrepid journalist think about asking these kinds of questions? The article is filled with quotes, stories, and comments by people who are anti-hacker. This may be fine in a story attacking hackers. But since the suspects don't seem to be hackers, and since the quotes are so one-sided, it seems like another hatchet job. If he has ins with all these unidentified hackers he mentions, you'd think he could at least try to either get his facts straight and present another side. If Joe had asked me, I'd say yeh, I'm a hacker, and so are my friends, and we, and people like us, don't rip off. You may like us or not, disagree with what we do or not, but most of us draw a line at that kind of ripoff and the line's not ambiguous. It's clear--carding is wrong and using a pbx isn't what hacking's all about. But from Joe's slanted article, you'd think that we're the world's greatest menace. Finally, he says that some of his info came from people identifying themselves as hackers in late night conference calls. Did these people trust Joe not to say anything they revealed to him? Why doesn't he tell us about his other sources of info and who initiated the calls? Most of us are still pissed about his stories about porn and the nets which were yellow journalism that sells papers and gets attention. It's great that the cud editors print all sides so let's see if they print this. ******************************* {Moderators note: We have not read the earlier stories to which this author alludes. As to why we printed the story, we encourage Joe to send his CU-related stories to us, and he sent that at our request. Whatever political or ideological differences may exist, in phone conversations and e-mail we have, without exception, found Joe to be decent and helpful. We learn by discussing issues, and we strongly encourage people to respond with substantive critiques. The term "hacker" is something worth debating, because, according to many of the indictments we have read, hacking is defined a priori as a criminal act. As a consequence, if one claims to be a hacker, this claim could conceivably be used as evidence in a trial. After all, if explaining Kermit is evidence of collusion, as it was to justify the raid on Steve Jackson Games, debates over what constitutes a hacker are not trivial -- moderators}. ******************************************************************** ------------------------------ **END OF CuD #2.14** ******************************************************************** Downloaded From P-80 International Information Systems 304-744-2253 12yrs+