**************************************************************************** >C O M P U T E R U N D E R G R O U N D< >D I G E S T< *** Volume 1, Issue #1.07 (May 5, 1990) ** **************************************************************************** MODERATORS: Jim Thomas / Gordon Meyer REPLY TO: TK0JUT2@NIU.bitnet FTP SITE: RJKRAUSE@SUNRISE.bitnet COMPUTER UNDERGROUND DIGEST is an open forum dedicated to sharing information among computerists and to the presentation and debate of diverse views. -------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCLAIMER: The views represented herein do not necessarily represent the views of the moderators. Contributors assume all responsibility for assuring that articles submitted do not violate copyright protections. -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************** *** Computer Underground Digest Issue #1.07 / File 3 of 6 *** *************************************************************** --------------------- Response to Stoll Review --------------------- Date: Tue, 1 May 90 21:44 EDT From: Stephen Tihor Subject: Cliff Stoll To: tk0jut2 Two quick items from times past: Cliff Stoll is accurately portrayed in his book as being part of the current thread of the 60's hippy culture. Despite the reviewer's assertions %see the review in CuD, #1.06 (eds)%, that culture did not die. It continues to live as hardy as any weed that can not be completely paved over or removed. I met Cliff during the period covered by the book and it is substantively accurate in all the areas I am directly and indirectly aware of. Further I do not view it as a piece of social analysis but as a ripping good true story. If de-polemicized, %the reviewer's% comments might form an interesting commentary to Cliff's actions and reactions as compared with his mental model of the Cuckoo and as compared to the idealized non-intrusive "hacker". Unfortunately the reviewer's axe is rather a bit too clear and, frankly, Cliff's book is irrelevant to the subject being discussed as presented. It is clear that the reviewer has different standards on right and wrong, on privacy and property rights, and on basic courtesy than either Cliff, myself, or the bulk of the legislatures and judiciaries of the United States. I would also like to mention that I know some of the people involved in SPAN security and that unlike their characterizations in a previous posting they are not unaware of the risks involved in some of the security configurations of their systems. Two concerns prevent a much tighter security curtain in the SPAN areas that I know of. First, some researchers were using the accesses for legitimate research, relying on the community spirit that the reviewer of Mr. Stoll's book claims not to see evidence of for security. That changed. Second there is the general problem of enforcement in a cooperating anarchy of systems manage by scientists not professional computer users. This problem is being address by current version of the networking software for some of them but having dealt with them day to day it is hard to explain the risks to someone unfamiliar with the field and if they do understand they are likely to give up on computing, remove their systems from the internetwork, or turn into the witch burners that we are warned against becoming. None of these seem particularly good to me although I have know people on various sides of the fence who would argue for each of them in turn. =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ + END THIS FILE + +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+===+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=  Downloaded From P-80 International Information Systems 304-744-2253 12yrs+