************
Topic 12        Sat Jun 10, 1989
R.MOYER1                     (Forwarded) 
Sub: The Atari TT: 68030                    

Atari has announced it's new TT 68030 based Computer at COMDEX and Hannover in
recent months. This is a place to discuss TT, ask questions, or leave
comments.
                                                      
136 message(s) total.
 ************
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 1         Fri Jun 01, 1990
BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.]     (Forwarded) 
 
Derrick,

There are a lot of reasons to get a TT instead of an STE that might support
those resolutions. For one, to get the power of an 030 vs a 68000! Especially
in the so called TTX, the tower version. That one has four VME slots, UNIX,
and more!

And we have not said that it is likely that we will come out with a Mega STE.
What we have said is that we are considering it. That's all...

Bob Brodie
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 2         Fri Jun 01, 1990
M.LOADER1                    (Forwarded) 
 
Don't redesign the TT case. That would slow the product from getting to the
store shelves. Let some 3rd party who wants to make a few bucks design a Mac
IIci type case and install the guts in it for a fee!

Mike
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 3         Fri Jun 01, 1990
SANDY.W [RT SysOp]           (Forwarded) 
 
I wonder if the disliked design will make it any easier to fit it into a tower
case ourselves?
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 4         Fri Jun 01, 1990
BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.]     (Forwarded) 
 
Well, there is a tower design in the other model of the TT. Sooooo, I would
certainly say that anyting is possible. Especially when we have a company
(Sprokits) that is already making tower cases for the ST line.

regards,

Bob Brodie

PS- Sandy, If I had a Moniterm, I'd be anxious for a tower case, too! :)
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 5         Fri Jun 01, 1990
DERRICK                      (Forwarded) 
 
When will we see the TTX, in 1991? HOw many MIPS can the TT do? I heard it was
15 to 20 MIPS, true?
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 6         Fri Jun 01, 1990
ISD2 [Julius O.]             (Forwarded) 
 
A 16 Mhz 68030 rates at about 3 to 4 MIPS.

For 15 to 20 MIPS you need either a 80486, 68040, or some RISC based system.

While on the topic...  <grin>

Saw a really nice workstation from MIPS Computers this week at a local Unix
show.  Called the Magnum RISCstation it is rated at 25 MIPS, 3.6 MFLOPS, 43000
Dhrystones per second.  8 to 128 Mb of RAM.  0 to 600 Mb of internal disk
space.  Built-in thick Ethernet.  1.44 Mb floppy.  Two serial ports, one
rodent port.  Video subsystem is either 1152x900 in monochrome or 1280x1024 in
256 colors and includes some hardware assits in fills and vector drawing. 
Runs a converged version of System V and BSD Unix, POSIX compliant, OSF/Motif
on top of X.

This machine starts at $9000 and sits in a rather attractive case that is 16"
square and 4" high.

This machine is serious performance at serious low price...

...now back to schedualed programming...  :-)
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 7         Fri Jun 01, 1990
S.WHITNEY [Steve W.]         (Forwarded) 
 
While we're talking about specs, has Atari decided if the TT will have  high
density floppies?  That would sure be nice.  Most 3.5" disked PCs use them so
the compatibility would be better.
 Steve
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 8         Sat Jun 02, 1990
DERRICK                      (Forwarded) 
 
Acorn UK has one called the ARM3(RISC) running at 30Mhz doing 15 to 20 MIPS. 
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 9         Sat Jun 02, 1990
BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.]     (Forwarded) 
 
Steve,

The TT uses 1.44 Meg floppies. The early "show versions" often had the 720K
ones as a temporary measure.

 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 10        Mon Jun 04, 1990
S.WHITNEY [Steve W.]         (Forwarded) 
 
Thanks, Bob!  I'm glad to hear Atari made what I consider to be the right
choice putting the 1.44 Meg floppy in the TT!
 Steve
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 11        Mon Jun 04, 1990
DERRICK                      (Forwarded) 
 
Atari is all talk and no action<shame> We have been hearing about the TT 5
years now and yet to see them is stores. Have you guys(Atari) ever thought on
just making IBM clones for a living? Ithe beef seesm
          The beef seems well done to me care for a bite?
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 12        Mon Jun 04, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
Well it's like this, CBM hired lots of engineers and pushes products through a
little faster. They also loose money. Atari doesn't hire lots of engineers
takes a little more time...not much more...really...and doesn't go out of the
black.

It all comes down to a different philosophy of management and finance. Since
neither CBMs nor Atari's money is mine I won't rag on them for taking their
time.

Now if it was MY money :-)
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 13        Tue Jun 05, 1990
BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.]     (Forwarded) 
 
Jim, 

Meet you at the bank!  :-)

Derrick,

Your wrong. You have only been hearing RUMORS of the TT for the last few
years, certainly not five. You have reappeared recently, after a long absence.
You ask questions that show that your not up to speed with what has been
happening in your absence, and then leave critical messages about something
you demonstrate you have minimal knowledge about. Why don't you go d/l the Nov
89 issues of ST-Report and ST Z-Magazine, and FIND OUT what the TT is really
all about?

And just for the record, YES...we have thought about making clones, and we in
fact have been selling them for some time! If you would read some of  ISD2's
messages, you'll note that he mentions owning one, and having a particular
kind of graphics card in it.

I'm not trying to flame you, and I apologize if it comes across that way.
Let's just get up to speed before we become *too* critical, ok?

regards,

Bob Brodie Manager User Group Services Atari U.S. Corporation
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 14        Tue Jun 05, 1990
ST-REPORT [CPU Report]       (Forwarded) 
 
TOWNS,

Any comment on the rumor that the Data transfer rate (and thus, much of the
speed) of the TTX (or Tower TT) will be TWICE that of the \ soon-to-be-
shipping TT030/2?

 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 15        Wed Jun 06, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         (Forwarded) 
 
 Tom, your point is well taken. Thanks.

 CPU Report, 

 Do you mean clock speed? If so, I am not sure. The only TT that I 
 am aware of is the TT030/2 which has a processor speed of 16 MHz.
 I am sure there will be other higher speeds in the future, but I 
 don't know if TT/X or a Tower Configuration TT will have a higher
 processor speed or the standard 16 MHz.

 -- John

 PS. Julius: I hope you get yours soon! <grin> You will wonder how
     you ever used standard ST machines. The TT is REALLY fast.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 16        Wed Jun 06, 1990
N.MOSER                      (Forwarded) 
 
When will we see the TT at a point that I can buy one?
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 17        Thu Jun 07, 1990
G.MON2                       (Forwarded) 
 
I recently read some messages on Usenet that seem to imply that Atari  will
officially introduce the TT at the fall Comdex (after it's  introduction in
Canada).  Now I'm confused.  I thought Atari already  officially introduced
the TT at the last Comdex.

By the way, a certain on-line magazine seems to imply in it's issues  that
some Atari representatives have been "rude" (or something like  that) on the
on-line services.  But from my perspective, I haven't seen  anything wrong
with what John has posted on here.  Instead, it seems to  me that ST-Report
constantly jumps on every little statement that John makes.  
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 18        Thu Jun 14, 1990
J.H.CARROLL                  (Forwarded) 
 
Well, I wanted to get on sooner but....

The Atari TT was prominently displayed at the SIIM show here in Montreal last
week.  Here are some first impressions...

After seeing the TT in photographs (BW & colour) for months, the TT's case
didn't look half as ugly as I first thought.

Atari's booth was large and I had my hopes up because all of the show's flyers
(and Atari's own pamphlets) really played up the fact that this was the first
time the TT was on official display in North America.   Unfortunately, the TT
was rigged with a VGA monitor... when I say rigged I mean the display looked
terrible.. someone wasn't very good at adjusting the monitor.  Unfortunately
too, the monitor wasn't able to display the monochrome ultra high res mode
which would probably have been more impressive.

Getting the Atari rep to demo the machine was useless-- he barely knew where
the power switch was...  When I asked about Unix, he told me I'd be better off
buying a 386 clone-- which I thought was a strange comment comming from an
Atari employee.

Screen displays were noticeably faster and the machine was able to run most
things I threw at it with the notable exception of any application compiled
with GFA BASIC.

The TT on display was fitted with AppleTalk connectors, and a VME card with
two additional serial ports on it.  The keyboard was nice enough though I
think I prefer my MEGA 2 keyboard.

Oddly enough, the machine wasn't getting much attention.  It didn't seem like 
there was much effort put into the "big announcement".  The TT pamphlets had
barely half a page worth of specs with the rest of the document almost
entirely dedicated to promotions for Calamus, LDW Power etc...

I have to say too, that GEM looked a little out-dated and pale next to the
huge Commodore booth showing off Commodore's spruced-up interface and DOS
people showing off Windows 3... and Apple developpers showing off the Mac
interface.

On the whole, the TT looked like a souped up ST (As I guess it should) but I
really wonder how many first-time buyers Atari is going to attract.

The rep said that Canadians should start seeing the TT in August, and that
dealers could start taking orders during the sond half of next month.  He was
also under the impression that the Unix-TT would be available in September---
we'll see huh?

I left with mixed feelings-- I was expecting more.. .but what I saw was nice.

Jonathan
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 19        Sat Jun 16, 1990
P.MCCULLOUGH                 (Forwarded) 
 
 My only concern vis-a-vis the case design is the built-in hard drive.  I 
 hope Atari sells it in a version without the HD, as this will certainly
 be an important part of the TT cost.  I also wish that the TT were in a
 better looking box, but that isn't important.  Also, lets not forget the
 original MAC II... Now that was a VCR box if I ever saw one! (Old style
 VCR, that is)  I would prefer the TT case over the original MAC II box
 any day.  
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 20        Fri Jun 22, 1990
STAN50                       (Forwarded) 
 
On Bitnet, it is claimed that Dutch Atari has officially stated that the TT
will ship with a 32 mhz processor, not the 16 which has been claimed up to
this point. Thehas been some discussion on the net as to what this means, and
how likely it is to be true. The claim is that it was a last minute change.
The price was listed at 3200 us dollars, including VGA monitor and hard drive.
720 K floppy was listed as standard. Supposedly, developers had 12 machines in
Germany, 6 in Holland.
 *s
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 21        Fri Jun 22, 1990
R.GRANT11 [Ron Grant]        (Forwarded) 
 
that's one rumour that I'd like to see come true :-). One of the initial
readblocks I seem to encounter talking to people about the TT is the "you can
get a 25 MHz '386 for $suchandsuch". A stock 32 Mhz machine would be very
attractive.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 22        Sat Jun 23, 1990
G.MON2                       (Forwarded) 
 
I saw that post from Dutch Atari.  My guess is that they meant 32-bit  instead
of 32 Mhz.  But it would be nice if there will be a TT that runs at 32 Mhz. 
Also, in that post, it was mentioned that the video subsystem of the TT has a
64-bit data bus to the memory.  If this is true, then I'm a little surprised
that it wasn't mentioned by anyone at Atari US.  This  is a fairly major
architectural (sp?) feature. That's one of the reasons why I really want to
see a Byte article on the  TT.  By the way, the TT's specifications mentions
that you can expand  the 2 serial ports into 4.  Does anyone know how this is
done? /s
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 23        Sat Jun 23, 1990
ST-REPORT [CPU Report]       (Forwarded) 
 
G.MON2,

Well, people at Atari US said that the TT030/2 uses a 16-bit internal VME Bus
Architecture, so the 32 MHZ '030 rumor may be true.  However, it may just
apply to the TT030/6 (the "Tower Version of the TT")...

Of course, it would be good if the rumor would be true....<grin>
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 24        Sat Jun 23, 1990
M.KENNEDY3                   (Forwarded) 
 
   Leonard Tramiel supposedly mentioned the 64-bit wide path for video at the
CeBIT show...he is quoted in the June ST FORMAT...
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 25        Sat Jun 23, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         (Forwarded) 
 
 I will talk with Leonard on Monday and see if I can get a new set 
 of TT specifications for release. It seems there is quite a bit of
 confusion out there.

 As for 32 MHz.. I certainly would like to see this happen. But, I
 don't have an answer for you now! I just write the software.. I 
 leave the hardware up to those that know better than I! <grin>

 Seriously.. I will see what I can come up with. Give me a couple of
 days to work something up.

 Regarding 4 serial ports.. My TT has 2 serial ports on the connectors
 on the back. In the VME slot.. I have a backplane installed with two
 additional serial ports. This is simply a backplane that hooks up to
 two connectors on the motherboard.

 I have no idea if this will be standard at this point. I know it will
 be on Developer Units..

 Anyway.. if you have questions.. please ask away. I will answer what
 I can.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 26        Sat Jun 23, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
Folks, let's not get all funny here. The TT has 2 68901 chips and an 8530
(Appletalk) chip. That's 4 serial ports in HW. Only two are sticking out of
the cabinet, but there are 4.

Remember, Dutch Atari is known to make mods to the computers they sell in the
Netherlands...and there are alot of machines in the Netherlands. Anyone can go
down to their local Mac dealer and buy a Dove 32Mhz 030 accelerator for about
$450 lately. All this does is stick a 32Mhz 030 with a 32Mhz oscillator into a
16Mhz 030 socket. It works on the Mac and it will work on the TT. It doesn't
have a cache or anything fancy but the clock speed is quite nice. This is the
most likely means of the 32Mhz TT conversion. Atari could just up the clock
speed...with appropriate delay for the DSACK lines...in the TT itself also. It
wouldn't be much more exspensive than the 030 price difference. At 16 or 32
the TT will represent a good price/performance bargain. Be sure and buy the
MacIIx version of the Dove board :-)

I seem to remeber the 64bit memory being mentioned before. It is esoteric but
will basically maintain the speed advantage the ST (TT) has over the Amiga.
Both have video contended display memory but Atari has made an effort in the
ST and TT to mitigate the spped degradation video contention has on CPU
performance. The STs memory is twice as fast as the 68000. The TTs memory is
the same speed but twice as wide :-) It is a  nice feature. Although Motorola
really meant us to use 128bit wide ram to support full speed burst mode reads.
Maybe next time.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 27        Sat Jun 23, 1990
R.GRANT11 [Ron Grant]        (Forwarded) 
 
The specifications I saw said that the entire ST-compatible RAM system  was 64-
bit wide, and 'appeared' 32-bit to the operating system. Does this require
special SIMMs, or the normal ones?

John, does 'backplane' mean the same thing as 'slot' to us non-hardware types?
In other words, in order to utilize four serial ports, the TT must give up its
single slot? This was the case with the demo unit I saw last Saturday. I don't
think its terribly important to the average user,  certainly not to me (and I
consider myself a 'power' user). I think it's wonderful to be able to use a
modem and a serial device at the same time.

For those planning on upgrading, be warned; you'll have to buy a new MODEM
CABLE (gasp! :-) because the serial ports on the TT are AT-style DB9's.

Oh, and yes, these specifications do say that the TT has TWO serial ports
expandable to four. Some people are saying that it comes standard with 4
because that's what they've seen; I do NOT think the stock TT will come with
them.

Hey, I'll swap the two serials for a graphics board any day <grin>.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 28        Sun Jun 24, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         (Forwarded) 
 
 The Memory expansion will be done in two ways: 1. Through the 2 Meg
 RAM Expander for Dual-Purpose RAM expansion. This is a custom Atari
 Board and I assume will be sold by us through our Dealers. 2. The 
 Nibble Mode RAM expansion board that holds SIMMs. The only requirement
 for SIMMs that I am aware of is speed. Otherwise, they are the same.
 I believe they have to be 80ns, but I will check on this one.

 As for Backplane, they are just as they are in the model you saw. 
 It fills in the area for the VME slot.

 You won't need a new modem cable. You can buy an adapter to convert
 the 25 pin to a 9 pin connector. That's what I have.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 29        Sun Jun 24, 1990
DOUG.W                       (Forwarded) 
 
To clarify John's mention of a "backplane" (wrong terminology), what he's
talking about is a backPLATE.  It's simply a piece of metal with the
connectors attached.  It doesn't use the VME slot at all, just the opening in
the case.

--Doug
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 30        Sun Jun 24, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         (Forwarded) 
 
 Thanks, Doug.. I had a feeling I was using the wrong Terminology.
 Thanks for correcting me!

 -- John
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 31        Sun Jun 24, 1990
R.GRANT11 [Ron Grant]        (Forwarded) 
 
AHHHHH, I see now. So, if you found some other way of bringing the second pair
of serial ports to the outside of the box, you'd still have the VME bus
connector open. Excellent. I still don't hardly think I'm going to  need more
than two serial ports (one for modem, one for tablet) but you  never know....

Incidentally, I was standing over Darek's shoulder when he was getting those
benchmarks in the latest STR. We were selling neck braces afterward. <grin>

For anybody who may be worried about Atari and the future; don't. The TT is a
WONDERFUL computer, perfectly suitable for the 90's.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 32        Sun Jun 24, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         (Forwarded) 
 
 I agree. Atari will have a great future with the TT, STE, Lynx, 
 Portfolio, and other yet unannounced products. We are receiving
 all kinds of praise in the UK and German ST press for the TT.

 And I think our marketing people will come in with the right 
 price to make the TT competitive.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 33        Sun Jun 24, 1990
NEVIN-S                      (Forwarded) 
 
And will the marketing people come in with the right ADVERTISING for the TT? I
sure hope so.

   --Nevin
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 34        Mon Jun 25, 1990
B.REHBOCK                    (Forwarded) 
 
John, I'm glad you engineering types are doing a great job, it would be nice
if the sales & marketing types would follow suit :-)
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 35        Mon Jun 25, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         (Forwarded) 
 
 Well, I think we are doing ok. I think there is always room for
 improvement, but we do try to do our best for the lowest cost.

 I am really optimistic about the future. I think things are going
 to get better soon. It's not going to be an overnight change, but
 I do think we will see positive things soon.

 -- JOhn
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 36        Wed Jun 27, 1990
N.MOSER                      (Forwarded) 
 
Does any one know when the TT will be available in the States for us to
purchase?
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 37        Thu Jun 28, 1990
J.MEEHAN3 [Joe]              (Forwarded) 
 
N.MOSER,

      The TT will be available in the States exactly 24 hours after I return
from Canada with one.

>>> Joe M <<< 
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 38        Thu Jun 28, 1990
B.PISCHKE                    (Forwarded) 
 
Don't count on it with the border blockage.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 39        Thu Jun 28, 1990
MAS2743 [mas2743]            (Forwarded) 
 
There BETTER BE several GOOD manual that extensively explains new XBIOS, if
any, on TT before I can buy it and its technical support. Why?  I don't know
much about how or what LAN does and its technical details.

I heard there will be a big consortium or meeting from all over to discuss and
perhaps standardized the new Ethernet LAN chip in Newsbyte (here in GEnie).  
How will that affect TT tech spec?
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 40        Fri Jun 29, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         (Forwarded) 
 
 It won't. The TT supports VME cards. If people want to standardize
 on an Ethernet LAN chip, then let them. Right now, there are a 
 variety of chips sets to choose from. I personally can't imagine
 what you mean by "stanardizing on a Ethernet LAN chip." Ethernet 
 is pretty standard and well-defined already.

 As for XBIOS documentation, this will be documented and made 
 available to all Registered Developers. If you are a registered 
 developer, then when it is ready to ship.. you will be able to get
 it.

 -- john
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 41        Sat Jun 30, 1990
P.MCCULLOUGH                 (Forwarded) 
 
J. Meehan-  (J.MEEHAN3, that is...)
 Then would you please go to Canada and get one RIGHT NOW?!?!  :)
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 42        Sat Jun 30, 1990
B.PISCHKE                    (Forwarded) 
 
will appear in the stores in July, and that the machine will be on sale to the
public in August.

The first public demonstration of the TT was held at the last Toronto Atari
Federation meeting.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 43        Sat Jun 30, 1990
DOUG.W                       (Forwarded) 
 
That's funny, I thought for sure I'd seen a TT publicly demonstrated at the
World of Atari in Anaheim...
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 44        Sat Jun 30, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
Funny, I thought it was November COMDEX. Or last years Dussledorf?
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 45        Sat Jun 30, 1990
DOUG.W                       (Forwarded) 
 
I didn't count COMDEX since it isn't open to the public.

--Doug
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 46        Sat Jun 30, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         (Forwarded) 
 
 The first public demonstration of the TT was at last year's 
 Dusseldorf Atari Show. It's the world's largest Atari Show and 
 from what I have heard draws crowds of 30,000 and up.

 From there.. it's been displayed in several places.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 47        Tue Jul 03, 1990
M.LOADER1                    (Forwarded) 
 
Saw a TT in the local dealer on the weekend. The rep was demoing it for anyone
who wanted to play with it. Was showing it with the Euro VGA type monitor.
Very nice computer, (very ugly case). Price quoted was $4000Cnd for the 2MB
40MBHD config. No price on monitor. Rep said Atari Canada would have 50 to
demo in July. He said they'd have the final TOS in 'em. Well....
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 48        Wed Jul 04, 1990
NEVIN-S                      (Forwarded) 
 
Mike Loader....next time you see a TT at a Canadian dealer, could you try
UltraScript? I would love to know whether UScript runs, and how much faster it
is <grin>.  --Nevin
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 49        Wed Jul 04, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
It does not run on the TT Nevin, I think Towns has tried it before.

Guys, all this 040 hype is nice but Mot has still not made one that actually
works completely bug free. When that happens, then you can start counting the
days.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 50        Wed Jul 04, 1990
DERRICK                      (Forwarded) 
 
Allen, The folks that did HyperCache is working on a 68030 HyperCache board
running at 16 or 20Mhz with a 16K memory cache.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 51        Thu Jul 05, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         (Forwarded) 
 
 Yes, Ultrascript does not work. We are in the process of testing the 
 Applications that don't break on TOS 1.4 or TOS 1.6 that _do_ break on the 
 TT. Any problems that we find that are ours, we will fix. Any that are
 the applications, we will notify the company of what they are doing 
 wrong.

 As with TOS 1.4, we are working to achieve the highest level
 of compatibility on the TT.

 -- John Townsend

 P.S. Ultrascript is high on the list of programs to be tested. 
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 52        Fri Jul 06, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
The folks at Imagen have been extra supportive in the past, I'm sure when they
get a TT and some time they'll fix it.

Yeah Derrick, they have claimed to have one for a while, noone has seen it
though. We showed ours to the public...hands on...three months ago. Since T16
fits all STs and HC doesn't, since T16 is faster, and since T16 has proven
more reliable...experience in Germany, I am not worried. Actually HCs
marketing isn't the greatest and their latest version uses the CMI
phaselockloop to generate the 16Mhz clock...all that to avoid using one wire?
And on the CMI it was notoriously unstable. And it's now 4x4 inches :-)

I hear tell the PCspeed folks are claiming that an 030 is come'in round the
mountain too. And a T16 clocne they are calling T16 II. That of course is a
violation of my trade mark and they are going to get it :-)
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 53        Fri Jul 06, 1990
MAS2743 [mas2743]            (Forwarded) 
 
Well, if I buy the TT, it better run smoothly when I install a 68040
accelerator card in it without a hitch like Amiga is having.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 54        Fri Jul 06, 1990
ICDINC                       (Forwarded) 
 
Jim,  Interesting comment on Pro-VME.  It looks a bit different over here in
Germany. Their 68030 card is shown in most of the magazines. And there are at
least 3 or more other companies that have announced one.
  
            - TOM -
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 55        Fri Jul 06, 1990
DERRICK                      (Forwarded) 
 
ICDINC, can you supply addresses here or leave me E-Mail?

Jim, so whats the latest scoop on your 68030 board?  The T16 II sounds like a
joke to me. I'm sure they just want to pluck your nerves.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 56        Sat Jul 07, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
Derrick, your right about that. They offered to "buy" T16 but for only $2K.
Gee I wonder if they developed a copy for anywhere near so cheap :-)

Tom, understand the OS is copyrighted by Atari and what ProVME and the others
"intend" to use is a patched 1.4. Gee if it were legal I could have done that
in 1987, guess I am just too honest. Just setup a fly-by-night operation and
crank'em till Big A finally gets PO'd.

I cannot understate the loose ends that must be tied up in order to have a
reliable 030. There are about 2K of patches needed for 1.6 just to make it run
at all, another bunch to make the floppies happy and make correct use of the
blitter. Frankly, the ad you sent us a while back had a "feature" claimed that
is ABSOLUTELY impossible for the 030 in the ST. So I remain skeptical. If you
ever get the chance just try that HC of yours in a wide range of machines and
see what happens. I'd bet they will instruct people to remove the
blitter...too bad since it is still faster than an 030 at certain graphics
operations. You have seen my work, and I had the 030 around in April for folks
to play with. Remember that the folks they are going to distribute through
have an "interest" in a couple of the magazines...don't count on too critical
a review ;-)
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 57        Sat Jul 07, 1990
ICDINC                       (Forwarded) 
 
Maxon Computer Schwalbacherstrasse 52 6236 Eschborn

West Germany


They are supposed to be showing a 68020 card at Dusseldorf


Pro-VME is doing the 68030 card here.  Sorry but I don't have their address.
Despite what Jim says, their card seems to be similar to his. It appears both
have problems with various hardware configurations and to be fair about it, so
do we with our host adapters.

Maxon owns magazines and reminds me of the Antic/Start conflict of interest
thing from a few years ago. Pro-VME makes industrial control devices out of
Atari ST building blocks.

Of course if I were in America, and had a choice between equal German and
American products, I would surely buy American!

        - TOM -
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 58        Sat Jul 07, 1990
M.LOADER1                    (Forwarded) 
 
Derrick: Meus is from MacroSystem, Gahlenfeldstrasse 6, 5804 Herdecke. Phone
is 023 30/80 11 32. Price is 498 Mark. You can use 1.0, 1.2 disk or rom. There
is a 1.4 version as well. A few mail order companies in Germany were also
carrying it.

Mike
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 59        Sat Jul 07, 1990
J.MEEHAN3 [Joe]              (Forwarded) 
 
P.MCCULLOUGH

      I would love to go to Canada and come back with a TT, but as I
understand it:

      1/ They are not in great supply

      2/ They want money for them and I just don't seem to ever have enough. 
If everyone would like to chip in I will try and find one and I promise to let
you all know how nice "our" TT is.

>>> Joe M <<< 
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 60        Sun Jul 08, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
Thanks Tom, looking at their add, the Provme has 4 roms. That's neat but the
blitter can't access them up on a 32 bit bus. And the blitter needs access to
get at the system font. Also you can't have a 32 bit cache mimicing a 16 bit
memory port, it completely screws the 030s internal sync. You can employ a
large amount of TTL buffers to get around this but are we building speedups or
new motherboards ;-) You'll be suprised how much a tiny bit of SRAM can help ;-
) And then there is the clock speed, my board will be able to go to 50Mhz :-)

Oh, Tom, the market is in Germany and I feel confident that we will do quite
well. There's nothing like being legal to make you more acceptable ;-)
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 61        Sat Jul 07, 1990
B.WHITE13                    (Forwarded) 
 
 Will the TT have midi holes? Will All my hundreds of dollars of midi software
still work on the TT? 
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 62        Sun Jul 08, 1990
Z-NET [John Nagy]            (Forwarded) 
 
Yes, to MIDI.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 63        Sun Jul 08, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
Clabs stuff doesn't work currently on the TT.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 64        Sun Jul 08, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         (Forwarded) 
 
 C-Labs? Hmm.. I am sure we will locate the source of this problem
 and find a solution for it.

 Is it Notator or just all of their stuff? If it's all of their 
 stuff, it's usually the same problem on all the pieces of software
 and all the software can be fixed by fixing the one problem.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 65        Sun Jul 08, 1990
MAS2743 [mas2743]            (Forwarded) 
 
How many of you think Germany will (or have) make a 68040-based board or
accelerator for the TT's?   It could be a secret, huh?
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 66        Mon Jul 09, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
Mike a generic 040 accelerator will be built, it will require an ASIC since
about 20 TTL chips and pals are required to interface back to the 030. It will
no doubt be a Mac accelerator manufacturer that does it first, not someone
from Germany.

John, it was Notator and one other and it was due to the inability to read the
hardware key. The T16   wouldn't run either, and the CLAB rep said tough #$%@
to both. A truly great attitude. I have customers in the music feild that were
told #$@% off when they "asked" Clab to address the incompatibility. They also
don't work with German accelerators so it isn't nationalism ;-) You'd think it
could really benefit from a speedup too wouldn't you?
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 67        Wed Jul 11, 1990
D.STIDHAM                    (Forwarded) 
 
Didn't have time to read through all the messages inthsi topic but I'd like to
know, based on the press realease upped to GEnie by ZNET, whentthe 32 mghz
TT/030 might be available in the USA. I am a very strong supporter of Atari's
products, been quite an Atari consumer actually, and would buy one in a heart
beat. I run two businesses with My mega/laser system and could really
appreciate that computing power in my DTP applications.

If a rep from Atari would care to answer--Are you guys really gonna realease
this in a timely fashion to usa users?

Dan /s
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 68        Wed Jul 11, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         (Forwarded) 
 
 As soon as we can ship to the US market, we will. We don't delay
 products on purpose.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 69        Wed Jul 11, 1990
BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.]     (Forwarded) 
 
Dan,

First off, AtaCorp has not made an annoucement on any changes to the TT's
configuration.  At this time, we are still planning on a 16 Mhz TT. Second,
although we are getting closer to a release date for the US, we do not have a
date set yet. 

Believe me, I am as anxious as you are! I'm in the same 8 Mhz Mega ST4 boat
that you are!! (And to make it worse, I use a T-16'ed Mega at home. Come to
work and slllooooowww down!!)

regards,

Bob Brodie
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 70        Wed Jul 11, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
Atari Canada has been babbling spec out of school...;-)
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 71        Wed Jul 11, 1990
S.COLLER [Steve]             (Forwarded) 
 
It's not just Atari-Canda.  Atari-Netherlands and Atari New Zealand are all
rporting 32mhz TT's on the way or already landed.  All the folks here are
asking is for some idea of where the 32mhz units are coming from and will the
US be a future destination.

Steve
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 72        Wed Jul 11, 1990
B.REHBOCK                    (Forwarded) 
 
Bob, is Atari New Zealand a subidiary of Atari, Corp., or just a distributor. 
(To clarify how 'official' official is :-)
 -Bill
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 73        Thu Jul 12, 1990
D.STIDHAM                    (Forwarded) 
 
Ok Bob--thanks for the info(john too). Like to see that you are using  and
loving your system like we are. 

I'll be real patient, believe me my system complete with innovative products
like HotWire! and Neodesk still is incredible powerful, but at the same time,
easy to use and master.

We just don't want to be waitin til Xmas 1991. I guess you can understand
where our paranoia may come from. 

Dan 
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 74        Thu Jul 12, 1990
GORDON                       (Forwarded) 
 
 r E  s  U  e X s y R  j C      
 This is rather interesting.. Atari US hasn't even started selling a 16 Mhz TT
and Europe is on to the next generation of the machine a 32 Mhz?? An official
comment by Atari on this hot topic would be nice... I mean the chairman of the
board did say "The US will be FIRST"
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 75        Thu Jul 12, 1990
BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.]     (Forwarded) 
 
I spoke to Sam Tramiel about this personally. He has instructed me to  state
that the specifications for the TT remain unchanged. It is still a 16 Mhz
machine.

Gordon, the TT is not for sale in Europe yet either.  All that has been
reported is an alleged change in the specs of the TT. No one has reported
sales, because there aren't any.

Clearly, this is just an out of control rumor.

Bob Brodie

PS- if it hasn't shipped yet (anywhere) and it *was* a 32 Mhz machine, would
that make it a "second generation" machine?? 
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 76        Tue Jul 17, 1990
MAS2743 [mas2743]            (Forwarded) 
 
 Hello, while Nolan Bushnell is now working at the Commodore as an vice-
president in the area of multi-media interactive system, TT oops     Will TT
be able to display the international COLOR STANDARD called 1931 (or 1987) CIE
Chromaticity diagram to meet the human perception  when choosing the right
color in certain color paintbox, etc ?

If no, then TT ain't an industrial and graphics workstation to adapt  the
industrial standards!  Like I said before, 1987 CIE Chromaticity shows an
upside-down pyramid-like cone and you can rotate it to find the appropriate
spectrum for certain applications.  It has ALL items: Hue, Saturation (or some
people called it Chrominance) and Intensity (or Value or Brightness).   Given
that, it is possible to convert those to RGB units.  I will upload the RGB-HSI
conversion program to test out your TT.

It seems like ST use a 3D cube diagram, thus making it difficult to find
saturation except slicing the cube in some way to find that level.  Hard to
explain here...  Computer Graphics Review (March) has a very good article to
explain why and how along with technical  aspect of CIE diagram.

Sorry, I know this ain't TT but just wanted to make sure that TT follows the
CIE Chromaticity chart in case some users want to use it to meed meet their
demands in the field of visualizations or image processing!!! TT would be a
great successful graphics computer with the help of this standard - period.

Hope it helps. Mike
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 77        Tue Jul 17, 1990
DOUG.W                       (Forwarded) 
 
Mike, all of the standards you discuss (CIE Chromaticity diagram, Renderman,
etc.) have nothing to do with the hardware or the OS of a machine.  They are a
function of the software.  If the software supports these features, there's
nothing in the TT that will prevent them from working.

--Doug
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 78        Tue Jul 17, 1990
B.PISCHKE                    (Forwarded) 
 
I've seen a machine that does that in the Technology hall of the Ontario 
Science Centre.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 79        Tue Jul 17, 1990
M.MCCANN2                    (Forwarded) 
 
I say, I asked a WHILE ago (i.e., months) whether the game Empire (being GEM
based) will run properly on the TT and make proper use of the new 640x480
mode? Also, can anyone tell me if it'll run on the Moniterm or ISAC boards?
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 80        Wed Jul 18, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
What about FlightSimulator? And what's the expected release date too?
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 81        Tue Jul 17, 1990
A.DAVIDSON3                  (Forwarded) 
 
This is a reply to B.REHBOCK (11 July) and others: 'Atari NZ' is a privately-
owned distributor, Software Supplies (NZ)  Ltd. We haven't made any public
announcements about the TT, in spite of what you might read on GEnie.  We also
haven't received any TT's yet,  but are eagerly looking forward to the day.

Alex Davidson Software Supplies (NZ) Ltd - New Zealand distributors for Atari
computers. 
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 82        Wed Jul 18, 1990
R.GRANT11 [Ron Grant]        (Forwarded) 
 
I've successfully tested Flight Simulator II on the TT, Jim. It  really,
really, moves well. :-) On the 16 Mhz TT I tested it on, it  was certainly
smoother and nicer than the DOS version on the Atari  PC5 at 20 Mhz. If yer an
FSII fan, you'll LIKE it.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 83        Wed Jul 18, 1990
STACE [Mark]                 (Forwarded) 
 
There is a great article on the TT in the July 1990 issue of ST User Magazine
(European mag).  It includes and excellent two full page color picture of the
TT's main motherboard!  The 68030 in the picture is clearly labeled 68030RC16
(as in 16mhz).

I was surprised to see that the included 2 meg of RAM was NOT on SIMMs. It is
all in standard 1 meg chips.  Two memory expansion slots are provided however.
Perhaps a SIMM "master board" of some kind plugs into this  area??  Atari??

Mark
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 84        Wed Jul 18, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
Thanks Ron, I look forward to it.

Mark, those should be 16 256Kx4 ram chips to make up the 64bit wide "video
contended" ram. I hop the "fast" ram board will use SIMMs, I wouldn't want to
invest in raw chips anymore.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 85        Wed Jul 18, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         (Forwarded) 
 
 The Fast RAM expansion board does use SIMM sockets. I have no idea
 why the Dual-Purpose RAM is not SIMM style. I am sure there is a
 good reason for it. After all, SIMMs save space on the board. And 
 the TT is one board that we can use all the space we can get!

 -- John
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 86        Wed Jul 18, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
The reason is simple. The dual purpose ram is 64bits wide and would require 8
SIMMs to accomplish that word width. Instead they used 16 of the 256Kx4 (1
meg) rams. But these are not available on SIMMs in a convenient configuration.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 87        Wed Jul 18, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
That's 1 meg ram chips (256Kx8) for a total of 2 Megs of DP ram ;-)
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 88        Thu Jul 19, 1990
ISD2 [Julius O.]             (Forwarded) 
 
Could someone explain the significance of having 64 bit wide memory?

I'm a bit fuzzy on this...(then again, what else is new? :-)
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 89        Wed Jul 18, 1990
MAS2743 [mas2743]            (Forwarded) 
 
Do you think there will be a better Atari Planetarium software for the TT? 
MAybe some day astronomers will try to have the change to purchase one as a
tool to study the nightsky (perhaps Comp Aided Tele- scope?)  Of course, we
will have to wait and see how much impact TT will make in the market.  ms
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 90        Thu Jul 19, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
Julius? The point is to minimize video contention. By having a 64bit wide ram
the video circuit reads only every once in a while since it grabs 64
monochrome pixels at once. The rate of video contention changes depending on
the resolution used but the point is that the contention is cut in half by
using a wider bus. Also the CPU can access TWO 32 bit words at once and if the
030 is accessing two locations next to one another the second can be delivered
almost instantly...presuming the TT latches the extra 32 bits for possible CPU
use? Maybe maybe not.

The real way to do it...what burst mode is all about...is to use a 128 bit
wide path and read 4 32bit words at once. The first is the normal slow read
but the next three...having been read in parallel...are available instantly to
the CPU. Nice but nobody has built a microcomputer that does this yet.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 91        Thu Jul 19, 1990
ISD2 [Julius O.]             (Forwarded) 
 
Thanks for clearing that up, Jim.

(You don't have to tell me about video contention!  Name a machine that runs
640x400 in 16 colors and positively *dies* ...  ;-)

I think a 32 Mhz tower style would be the ticket...  :-)
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 92        Thu Jul 19, 1990
J.CLARKE6 [Jon Z*Net DU]     (Forwarded) 
 
 Alex,

  The article posted on GEnie, re the 32mhz TT was a scanned<ascii> version 
  of the dealer release, at the meetings held around the main centers
  earlier this month in NZ and was supplied by Software Supplies in 
  Christchurch. 

  Jon Clarke,
  Z-Net Down-Under.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 93        Thu Jul 19, 1990
S.WHITNEY [Steve W.]         (Forwarded) 
 
Anyone see in START that there'll be a 16 _bit_ version of the TT.  It just
passed the FCC shen START went to press....  I hope not too many people fall
for that typo...
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 94        Fri Jul 20, 1990
B.PISCHKE                    (Forwarded) 
 
I don't pay attention to start.  Remember the April 90 cover?  "Mitchtron,
Lucusfilm and Phaser"?
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 95        Fri Jul 20, 1990
W.LAS [Austin]               (Forwarded) 
 
  I haven't bought, or even looked at STart, since they started their Amiga
magazine.  I thought it was a pretty poor move for a magazine that had covered
Atari since the stone ages.  I've also noted how all the British magazines
have a double sided disk that single sided  people could use also, but STart
has been unable to duplicate the simplicity of the UK mags.

 But, that doesn't have anything to do with the TT.  Will the TT have ports
that will allow expansion?  If not, I think the TT will do  badly again.
 Will there be an "official" way to upgrade an ST to a TT?
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 96        Fri Jul 20, 1990
ST-REPORT [CPU Report]       (Forwarded) 
 
W.LAS,

The TT will have all of the ST's standard ports, as well as an SCSI port (a
REAL SCSI port), Appletalk port, etc.

Concerning upgrades:  This is ATARI we're talking about....
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 97        Sat Jul 21, 1990
ICDINC                       (Forwarded) 
 
W.LAS,  One of the better UK magazines covers both Amiga and Atari in the same
issue. I assume you also boycott that magazine?  ;-)
  
       - TOM -
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 98        Sat Jul 21, 1990
W.LAS [Austin]               (Forwarded) 
 
  Not at all.  Mainly because I don't get it.  Or I can't find it. But at
least they don't pretend to be the Atari user's best friend. And over in
England, the Amiga's the underdog anyway, so you can't be too harsh can you?
Ha ha.

 Like I said, if you can't easily upgrade the TT (like with new  graphics
boards and the like) then the TT will go nowhere.  Think of how happy all the
ST users would have been if they could have justed pplugged in a new graphic
board (like the IBM people can) and tromp on the Amiga.  I know I would
have... But as it is, I either have to make a new color board, or buy an STe. 
I'm sure you get the idea.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 99        Sat Jul 21, 1990
TOWNS [John @ Atari]         (Forwarded) 
 
 The TT has VME expansion. You could add a graphics board in the
 VME port. Assuming such boards were available.

  When you look at TT, you will easily see that it's the most 
 Expandable machine Atari has produced to date.

 -- John
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 100       Sun Jul 22, 1990
W.LAS [Austin]               (Forwarded) 
 
  Even more expandle than the ol' 800?  Sigh, those were the days.

Walt
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 101       Sun Jul 22, 1990
MAS2743 [mas2743]            (Forwarded) 
 
C'mon guys....<laffing>....let see if DataGlove (VPL) possible on TT to
perform a dynamic stereo-effects in the field of virtual reality visualization
applications.   I heard that this company will join Autodesk to do fabulous
"walkthroughs" or "pick-up" on the screen on Sun workstation and eventually
386-cloned workstation.

On TT? I doubt it because....where the rest of the programmers for TT? You may
say: "Too expensive mike!"  Then your excuse is cheap talk  and lose the
ballgame with 386 workstation if TT is released. Amazingly enough Nintendo can
use an off-shoot version called Power Glove with radio-sensitive
controls...like VPL.

How about DataSuit and DataMask?  Datasuit is real but mask...I made up. ALso,
just to inform you that I won't be using GEnie and ST Roundtable for a LONG
time because I am having a serious fiancial banckrupcy! That means, no more
bizzare ideas from me to discuss here...til sometime, perhaps when there is
"Uh, oh, problem on my TT" messages here around Sept.

Bye  <Mike silencely walks away.....maybe he even join the AmigaWorld?>
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 102       Sun Jul 22, 1990
ICDINC                       (Forwarded) 
 
Amiga is the underdog to the ST in the UK?  Hmmm.. that's news to me. ;-)
  
             - TOM -
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 103       Sun Jul 22, 1990
J.EIDSVOOG1                  (Forwarded) 
 
Mike silencely walks away.....   Hmmm.. thats news to me. ;-)

 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 104       Sun Jul 22, 1990
T.MCCOMB                     (Forwarded) 
 
Silencely Is Golden.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 105       Mon Jul 23, 1990
J.MIRANDO1                   (Forwarded) 
 
 To anyone who might know:

 Does Motorola even make a 32mhz 68030 ?  I don't know a heck of
 a lot about the proverbial "nuts and bolts" of microprocessors, 
 but I'd love to see a faster machine than the 16 mhz machine.
 While it would be better (read faster) than my ST, I'd hate to
 see another machine that's outdated by the time it becomes
 popular.

 To ATARI:
 I've heard that the keyboard on the TT (at least the ones so far)
 isn't as nice as the Mega keyboard.  Please, please Atari, invest
 in a _high_ quality keyboard.  Someone dishing out >3K for a TT
 wouldn't mind a little extra for a 'touch-typists' dream.
 Thanx (in advance) for listening.

 Joe Mirando
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 106       Tue Jul 24, 1990
G.RICHARDSO1                 (Forwarded) 
 
Joe, Motorola makes 68030's that run up to 40 mhz. The 40 mhz models might be 
only specially selected 33 mhz versions which are pretty standard. 16 Mhz was
outdated 2 years ago or more.

      George Richardson
      Merlin's Associates
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 107       Tue Jul 24, 1990
DOUG.W                       (Forwarded) 
 
Joe, the TT keyboard is *MUCH* better than the Mega keyboard.

--Doug
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 108       Tue Jul 24, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
16,20,25,33,40,50 all standard speeds...no "X" parts. 16 is $118, 50Mhz is
$600. I hear tell of a 66Mhz "X" part too.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 109       Tue Jul 24, 1990
DERRICK                      (Forwarded) 
 
Jim what is the price for the 32mhz processor?
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 110       Tue Jul 24, 1990
ISD2 [Julius O.]             (Forwarded) 
 
Doug, then why do I find myself plugging a Mega keyboard into the TT?  :-)
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 111       Tue Jul 24, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
Julius, you have an "early" version of the other keyboard ;-)
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 112       Tue Jul 24, 1990
J.MIRANDO1                   (Forwarded) 
 
 Doug,

 "AWRIGHT!"  It just gets better and better ;-)  ....


 Jim,

 Ya lost me but I'll take that as a "Yes, non-hardware person,
 it can be done."  re- ;-) 

 Thanx,
 Joe Mirando
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 113       Sat Jul 28, 1990
MAS2743 [mas2743]            (Forwarded) 
 
Since this section is getting hotter everyday, I want to post my message and
see what you think of the impacts of TT in the markets. It might thrive Atari
US Corp if....well...read on.

 MacRenderman on ST?  Ahemm...Why didn't we think of it before?


Since ST can run most Macintosh softwares by using GCR Spectre or known as Mac
Emulator, does anyone ever try MacRenderman on ST or TT yet?  Of course, Pixar
invented MacRenderman for anybody who want to create a photorealistic imagery
right on their desktop micro- computer.  I think it would be decent to dazzle
the eyes of ST'ers, as Pixar is long-famous for truly realistic animation in
the field of computer graphics and film with a dash of special effects....

To make MacRenderman work on ST or TT (given the proper modifications), all
you have to do is created the .RIB files from the good well-known 3D modeling
or CAD software.  And then, on the ST with Mac emulator running, you click on
the MacRenderman icon.  It will ask you to click on your favorite .RIB file to
be rendered in the Background mode (via multitasking) and let your computer do
the intensive- computation (floating mathchip is recommended) over-night for a
superb still imagery.  Of course, there should be a "Status Rendering"
histogram window with vertical-% bar as a note to inform user whether the
rendering time is finish or not.  PREVIEW and ABORT button is another
convienience.  MacRenderman requires 4 meg of RAM and 256 colors graphic board
with a resolution of 1024x768.  The final imagery will be on the second
monitor since Mac emulator use monochrome. Perhaps Syquest hard drive is a
MUST for removable image storage. And perhaps, 33mhz TT will use just one
monitor, who knows!

Well....in reality, there is no MacRenderman version for ST or TT yet. <sob> 
But I can foresee that if there is one for TT (for speed performance), then
Atari will thrive for another 10 years if and only if there is a TT and
MacRenderman software in the Computer Graphics World magazine - period!!


What do you think?  How will this idea of MacRenderman affect Lexicore?

For more info about MacRenderman and its support on various desktop computers,
please call:  1-800-937-4927.

With the power of 33Mhz TT (if its real in Europe), then who needs Macintosh
IIfx with MacRenderman anyway?  Nobody except TT users! THAT will give Atari
some cash flow for future computer productions, ie. Atari GS/040 where 'GS'
stands for Graphic Station...let Apple GS users be confused by this double-
twist label - ha ha!

Or how about Atari GP/040 where GP stands for Graphics Power, or "Geepy" or
close to "Cheapy"!  Ha ha!

Atari, make Project GasP (for GP) a big go to kick of Mac and Sun if not Iris.
Amiga?  You fill in your own story!  68050...nah....by then California will
strike hard perhaps around 1997 A.D.

Now please answer, will MacRenderman be possible on TT, if not ST?

Your smart...very smart friend, Mike
 *list
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 114       Sat Jul 28, 1990
JEFF.W [RTC Sysop]           (Forwarded) 
 
Who is the publisher of the software you're talking about, Mike?  I trust you
are talking to them about a TT or ST version, right?  It's their decision to
publish (or not to publish) a version for additional systems so they are the
people you have to convince.  I'd imagine they don't follow the discussions in
the ST Roundtable at this time, so I doubt you're getting your word to them if
you're relying on your posts here to sway their decision.
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 115       Sun Jul 29, 1990
N.MOSER                      (Forwarded) 
 
Is there any literature or brochures about the different configurations of the
TT? Where can I purchase a TT computor? Is it avalible yet? Thanks
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 116       Mon Jul 30, 1990
BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.]     (Forwarded) 
 
N.Moser,

Sorry, the TT is not available yet...ANYWHERE!

regards,

Bob Brodie
 ------------
Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 117       Mon Jul 30, 1990
GORDON                       (Forwarded) 
 
 Bob you forgot to mention that the TT was introduced in Canada a while back. 
<grin>
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 118       Tue Jul 31, 1990
DOUG.W                       (Forwarded) 
 
Gordon, the TT was *intruduced*.  You can't buy one, though.

--Doug
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 119       Tue Jul 31, 1990
GORDON                       (Forwarded) 
 
 Doug I know it was introduced.  That was ment as a joke... I talked to a big
uppy up from Atari at CES and he told me they were introducing the TT in
Canada and I said what does that mean Introducing?? Are they for Sale, taking
orders, just showing it or what?  The answer?  "I am not sure noone told me
anything except they were introducing it"
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 120       Tue Jul 31, 1990
BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.]     (Forwarded) 
 
TT, meet the public. Public, meet the TT!

A hands on type of affair for the endusers, and dealer, developers that
haven't yet had a chance to see a TT in person.
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 121       Tue Jul 31, 1990
MAS2743 [mas2743]            (Forwarded) 
 
 Hi - ST Journal mentioned something about Small 030 add-on for the TT030/2
computer.  Can anyone tell me (or give me hints) about it? What are the
prominent features of this Small 030 box?  Is it suppose to be a Mac-IIfx
emulator built-in the TT as a special order??  I think I like the sound of
having TT with this Small 030 box.

oing so will help user go out and buy the MacRenderman <Darlah place her hand
on my lip to shut-up!>  Alright....you get the picture and you guys don't want
me to be longwinded like a bookworm.  ms


 *list
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 122       Tue Jul 31, 1990
JEFF.W [RTC Sysop]           (Forwarded) 
 
Mike - I haven't gotten my issue of ST Journal #2,  but are you sure you read
that right?  With all the chatter about typos, I'm not sure what to expect. 
<grin>

If you're interested in the 68030 accelerator for the ST that is under
development by Gadgets By Small (and Fast Technology's Jim Allen), check out
Category 2, Topic 25 in the Gadgets By Small Roundtable.
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 123       Wed Aug 01, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
Mike, lay off the...whatever. It probably has side effects ;-)
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 124       Fri Aug 03, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
Ok, Apple has just announced they are licensing the source to the Appletalk
drivers. This would allow the TT to exist on Appletalk networks and fit right
in. The fee is $40,000. Is Atari looking into this?
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 125       Sat Aug 04, 1990
TOWNS [John@Atari]           (Forwarded) 
 
 I had heard that they were licensing the code in order to make 
 the standard more accepted. But 40K?? Geesh. I could write my own
 for $40K. That's a steep price..

 But, yes.. we have thought about this. Nothing will probably happen
 for the initial release of TT, but we hope to do something 
 regarding this issue in the future..

 -- John
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 126       Sat Aug 04, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
Considering possible revenues do to Appletalk compatibility, $40K is a
bargain. It relieves everyone from "trying" to write a clone. They just buy
this and sell, sell, sell. It's basically aimed at printing servers and smart
hard disks, but the TT can certainly benefit from the compatibility.
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 127       Sat Aug 04, 1990
T.MCCOMB                     (Forwarded) 
 
Yeah, but you're overworked already, John.  So Atari would have to hire
someone else, give them $40K/YR plus benefits to write it.  It'll take a yuear
to get done and only be 90% compatible. He'll get fired and we'll never see a
bugless version.  So the 40K Apple fee seems reasonable to me.  But then again
it isn't comming out of _my_ pocket.

   ;-)
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 128       Sat Aug 04, 1990
TOWNS [John@Atari]           (Forwarded) 
 
 Agreed. I think it's important. I will pass along the suggestion.
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 129       Sat Aug 04, 1990
J.ALLEN27                    (Forwarded) 
 
Not to get pushy John, but Adobe has lowered the license on postscript ;-)
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 130       Sun Aug 05, 1990
TOWNS [John@Atari]           (Forwarded) 
 
 <grin>
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 131       Sun Aug 05, 1990
M.KENNEDY3                   (Forwarded) 
 
   Does the TT also have the new analog joy ports found on the STE?  I  havn't
heard anything about them...
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 132       Mon Aug 06, 1990
TOWNS [John@Atari]           (Forwarded) 
 
 No, they don't. The STE is the only machine that has them.
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 133       Tue Aug 07, 1990
MAS2743 [mas2743]            (Forwarded) 
 
Ahem....I hear someone here saying that TT aint...ANYWHERE. Well, tsk tsk tsk
then the idea of having MacRenderman for the TT (if TT runs well in Mac II
emulation mode) is still my wildest fantasy dreams.

JEFF.W - What is the proper way of introducing TT workstation to the non-Atari
users in the United States of America?   More Ads? Who said that TT is ONLY
for current ST users?  Whats the Atari US Corp REAL goal in marketing?  I
assume hardware - NOT service, etc. like AT&T....right?

If no TT, then obviously it gives me the impression that ALL companies in USA
are lagging behind in technology except JAPAN and EUROPE!  I noticed there
seems to be a SLOW-DOWN in some companies because I have experience through
"rejected letters" from them when doing extensive job search since Dec 1989!  
What kind of USA is it?!

Well....perhaps lack of new spirit in the USA here...oh well....
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 134       Tue Aug 07, 1990
S.NOAH                       (Forwarded) 
 
In the overall scheme of things $40k isn't that bad. Appletalk would be that
appletalk code and combine it with Novel support, and create some type of
bridging software....  ( oh yeah please through in Banyan Vines Street talk )

   Well thats ALL that I want. ( he said while looking the other way, trying not
to be laughed at .....)

     Stu
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 135       Tue Aug 07, 1990
BOB-BRODIE [Atari Corp.]     (Forwarded) 
 
Mike,

Could it be there might be another reason other than a slow down? Maybe they
are just not hiring at the firms you applied at.

Try applying at Commodore. I'm sure that they can use someone with your
talent. I've heard that they are expanding their operations considerably.

And by all means, please tell them that I sent you.

Good Luck!

Bob Brodie
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Category 61,  Topic 12
Message 136       Wed Aug 08, 1990
MAS2743 [mas2743]            (Forwarded) 
 
I would like to work for Atari Corp...Atari Corp has nothing to do with
computer graphics, right?  I dream of working for a company that deals with
minor computer graphics programming or animation for the shows, like Lexicore
or LightWave 3D (for Amiga).  I'll see what I can do about that.   Oh, how
about animation on the TT?  Great, but I can't afford to buy one to use it
before they know I know how to use such a machine.
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REPly ?