Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1992 18:32:17 -0400 From: Helen Trillian Rose Message-Id: <199204302232.AA05100@rocza.eff.org> Subject: EFFector Online 2.09 To: eff-news@eff.org (eff-news mailing list) Status: RO ############ ########## Volume 2 Number 9 ############ ########## May 1, 1992 #### ### ### ########## ########## ########## ### ### #### #### ########## ########## ########## ### ### ##### #### ########## #### #### ### ### ###### #### #### ######## ######## ### ### ############ #### ######## ######## ### ### #### ####### ############# #### #### ########## #### ###### ############# #### #### ########## #### ##### ############# #### #### ########## #### #### ## ## ## |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| EFFector | | ONline | | | CROSSCURRENTS: | eff@eff.org | | | A Snapshot of Life at | 155 Second Street | EFF's Outposts | Cambridge, MA 02141 | | (617) 864-0665 | | | | 666 Pennsylvania Ave.SE | | Washington, DC 20003 | | (202) 544-9237 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AUSTIN CHAPTER ANNOUNCES FIRST MEMBERSHIP MEETING Date: Sunday, May 3rd 1992 Time: 1:30 p.m. Place: Austin Technology Incubator 8920 Business Park Drive (off Jollyville Road). We've been working, with Mitchell Kapor's approval, to set up an Austin chapter. This Sunday it happens - we'll have our first general meeting. On the agenda: MEET THE EFF - Learn what's going on. Meet the local board members (by the way, positions are still open on the board)! Ask questions. Get answers. Get input into what the Austin group will be doing, and the status of electronic activism nationwide. UPDATE ON THE SECRET SERVICE CASE - Steve Jackson, the Austin game designer whose office was raided by the Secret Service, will report on the status of his case. With the backing of the EFF, he (and users of his BBS) have filed suit against the govern- ment under the First and Fourth Amendments! If this case succeeds, it will help secure YOUR rights as a computer user and citizen of the Net. CYBERTEX CONVENTION - A year from now, the Austin EFF will hold a convention for BBS sysops, users, VR hackers, robot designers, and other citizens of Texas cyberspace . . . a Virtual Rodeo! Help plan - join the committee - get involved in what we hope will be an annual event that will draw nationwide attendance. JOIN THE GROUP - We'll be accepting memberships. We've also got great T-shirts for sale for $10.00. For more information about the EFF, or the meeting, contact Ed Cavazos through one of the following channels: WWIVnet - 1@5285 DNS - polekat@pro-smof.com.cts or polekat@tic.com Voice - (512) 385-2789 BBS - The Bamboo Gardens North - (512) 385-2941 - POLEKAT -==--==--==-<>-==--==--==- CROSSCURRENTS: EFF ON USENET, COMPUSERVE, AND THE WELL The EFF currently manages three open discussion forums -- each quite different in flavor and character. We thought we would share with you a snippet of daily life in each of these unique global villages. Comp.org.eff.talk By far, our most widely read forum is the Usenet group, comp.org.eff.talk. It can be accessed by anyone who has a newsfeed at their disposal. You can also read eff.talk if you don't have a newsfeed, but do have an e-mail account reachable via the Net by sending e-mail to eff@eff.org. In addition, eff.talk is carried on many BBSs and is echoed across the Fidonet backbone. From: jim@ferkel.ucsb.edu (Jim Lick) Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk Subject: Re: More songs about buildings and ftp.uu.net [In response to an upset post about ftp.uu.net's policy of logging anonymous ftp logins.] I thought I would add to this thread from the perspective of someone who operates an ftp archive. The logging here has been going on for a few months now. Initially, this was done without notice. The main README file had info about upload policies, but there was no pointer for new users to read this. The logging was done in response to a number of people abusing their privileges by uploading their personal files to distribute to friends or to bypass their local quotas temporarily. And some people were uploading X-rated image files. As anyone who reads the pictures groups knows, I have nothing against x-rated image files. However, various local and network policies prohibit their distribution through public ftp archives. I would be held personally responsible for any such files found on my site. Not long after logging was started, someone uploaded about 10 x-rated image files to the main incoming directory. Because of the surprising response from the remote site, I started a dialogue on the matter in the pictures discussion groups on the matter about what should be done. As a result of this discussion, it was decided that a notice of the logging should be posted immediately at login, and also an explanation of the upload restrictions. A number of other sites now post such notices also. Note that many sites still do logging, but do not post a notice about it. The logging is nothing new, just the notices are. My notice reads: ============================================================ NOTICE: All transactions are logged. If you don't like this, disconnect now. All the public files are kept in the directory /pub and below. Do not upload anything which could get me in trouble. This includes illegally copied software, x-rated image or text files, etc. If you do not obey this warning, your actions will be reported. ============================================================ The physical disk for the ftp area is on ferkel.ucsb.edu. It would likely be faster and more reliable to use ferkel instead of piggy, oinker, or cavevax. (The systems are all logically equivalent though.) ============================================================ If you see something strange happening (permission denied on files, etc.), drop me email at jim@ferkel.ucsb.edu. ============================================================ If your ftp client doesn't seem to be working correctly, try logging in with '-' as the first character in your password. If users login with '-' as the first character in the password, they receive the message: 230 Guest login ok, read /README before using system. because '-' disables multi-line messages which confuse older ftp clients. In a later discussion in another group (I don't remember which), several people argued that the login name of 'anonymous' implied that no logging would take place. As a result of this, my initial action was to remove the login 'anonymous' as a ftp login, using 'ftp' and 'guest' instead. This ended up screwing up mirror programs, archie, and the like, so I changed things to send the message: 331 Guest login ok, 'anonymous' login doesn't mean you won't be logged. if a user logs in as 'anonymous'. I feel that such notices are the only effective ways to prevent misuse of my server. Logging is the only effective way to detect misuse quickly and easily. It is not meant to be used in a 'Big-Brother' manner. I receive the ftp logs in mail every morning from the previous day, and do a quick grep on it to see if anything happened. If nothing suspicious is noted, its deleted. In other discussions, I likened this logging to having a security camera in a store. The potential for abuse is there in each case, but security cameras are accepted to help prevent crime. The logs should be accepted by users to prevent misuse. If misuse could not be controlled because of the lack of logs, it would be possible for some ftp archives to be closed down completely. Like store cameras, most stores have cameras recording your actions without you knowing it, and many ftp sites log you without you knowing about it. Jim Lick Work: University of California | Play: 6657 El Colegio #24 Santa Barbara | Isla Vista, CA 93117-4280 Dept. of Mechanical Engr. | (805) 968-0189 voice/msg 2311 Engr II Building | "when you gonna make up your mind? (805) 893-4113 | when you gonna love you as much jim@ferkel.ucsb.edu | as i do?" -Tori Amos Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk Subject: Ownership of messages? From: mike@batpad.lgb.CA.US (Mike Batchelor) Got a question about something. Let me quote a message first, which is why I am asking. It is from the RelayNet International Message Exchange, a DOS-based store-and-forward network. Bonnie Anthony is a member of the Steering Committee for RIME, and is in a position to speak for the whole organization: ====================================================================== BBS: The Holistic BBS - Based on the Premise Date: 04-11-92 (05:06) Number: 10096 From: BONNIE ANTHONY Refer#: 10093 To: DEKE BARKER Recvd: NO Subj: Free speech?? Conf: (616) Users ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DB|Assuming for the moment that making certain characterizations is DB|a valid (RIME-legal) activity, is it against RIME rules to draw DB|upon specific statements by that individual/group made on other DB|conferences or networks? To take an off-the-wall example: If DB|President Bush participated on RIME's DEBATE and (say) a debate DB|conference on another network, and had made statements like "I DB|support the Choice movement" in discussions on the other network, DB|would it be inappropriate to quote such statements in refuting DB|his anti-choice statements on RIME? (Assume public statements.) Because the other networks claim ownership of their messages, yes it would be inappropriate to quote such statements. You could of course say that you saw on another network where President Bush had made those statements, and then you could get permission from him to post his quotes on this network, as he owns his own material as well. I know this is seems silly here but we abide by other networks stated rules and positions. Now in here Deke, because this is a resolution conference, we allow greater flexibility in making specific statements about others. That would NOT be permitted in an issue oriented conference per se. --- * MegaMail 2.10 #2:There is no pleasing a serpent PCRelay:RUNNINGA -> #2 RelayNet (tm) 4.11 The Running Board * 301 229-5342 * MD ====================================================================== Is there any basis for her claim that the RIME network, or other networks, own all messages passing through them? I've asked her for clarification on whether RIME itself claims such ownership. Meanwhile, it doesn't seem to me like anybody can claim ownership or copyright on messages or articles posted to a public forum (so I have felt free to quote Bonnie's message here). My question may be practically moot, however, since the RIME network has the ability to put my name in an "insulate" file, and prevent my messages from propagating if they choose to do so. They do this routinely to "problem users" who repeatedly violate their rules. [] --- [] Mike Batchelor -- mike@batpad.lgb.CA.US -- cerritos.edu!batpad!mike [] Long Beach, California EFFSIG Our latest outpost is on Compuserve Information Services. CIS can be reached at Customer Service Dept., PO Box 20212, Columbus, OH 43220. Our room here is called a Forum, and we've set up several sections within that forum -- they are: Sysop Section EFFector@CIS News Online The Matrix Cyberlaw NetTech Networlds Software Hardware Wetware FutureNets TechnoRisks Media Watch Maps & Guides Homesteading Beginner's Mind Pointers The Online section is currently chewing on the concept of electronic offices. Topic: Officeless Companies From: Michael Houdeshell 70004,1044 To: Gerard Van der Leun Q: If one telecommutes from another state, to which state does one pay taxes? A colleague just moved from Ohio to Indiana, but still works via modem for the company in Ohio. Where is the "workplace"? Ohio? Indiana? In cyberspace? In the cable? Or should he just split the difference and list Union City? (Not that he asked me, but it was the first question that popped into my mind.) Theory of the four great movements of human populations in terms of proximity of sleeping quarters to food supply: (1) Hunter-gatherer period. Migratory population, movements tied directly to food supply. (2) Agricultural revolution. Rural population. Static in relation to food supply. Work of cultivation not yet abstracted as work, per se, but getting there. (All that Book O' Genesis talk about sweat and toil and so on.) (3) Industrial period (early). Beginning of mass movement to cities. Manor trades (division of labor) intensified. Work for intermediary commodity: money. Living and sleeping quarters still physically near work. (3.5) Ugly backsliding phenomenon of "company towns" (U.S., 19th c.) (4) Migration from cities to suburbia, farm to cities (and sometimes suburbia). Increasing distance of living from work, work from food. The Era of Wonderbread and TupperWare. (5) Migration to virtual workplace. Increasingly ephemeral ties to employer. It would be interesting to plot the length of time necessary for, say, half the population to make each transition. This could be accomplished relatively easily with Census Bureau figures for the (3) -(4) period. I suspect, from the rapidity with which the movement from farms to cities took place, and the colonization of suburbia (30-40 years?), that the movement to the virtual workplace, which just recently began, should be a fait accompli by 2005, at the latest. Other conjectures? Rebuttals? Commentary on this crack-brained schema? And, we might ask, with an overweening sense of our ability to extrapolate beyond the point of reasonability, What Next? As the cognitive distances between work/food and work/place increase--as they become unyoked, so to speak--and the very idea of "place" becomes diffuse, what societal consequences might we observe? In previous leaps, new connectors or intermediaries have emerged: money (between work and food), the social wall (between city and suburb, rural and urban concentrations of population), the necessity of the physically mobile society (which is, with its polluting excesses and waste of time, itself catalyzing the emergence of the telecommuting society) and its automotive culture. What connecting objects, if nothing more than reified ideas (recall: money has "fiat" worth, something we tend to forget, unless we're living in late Weimar or, more recently, in Poland), will serve as connections between the diffuse loci of service provider (the worker) and service consumer (the temporary employer)? Any ideas on what might precipitate out of the vacuum left by the departure of the "employee"? Just seemed like the place to jam on these sorts of topics. Topic: Officeless Companies From: Robert Cooke, 70541,2233 To: Michael Houdeshell 70004,1044 Michael...fascinating stuff. Hard to predict how universal the virtual workspace will become. Self-motivated, or independent people who can work alone may take to it now, but people who work communally or who need human contact may find it harder to adapt. Will these people accept electronic intimacy, or will they need the physical presence of fellow workers and employers to really feel a part of things? Anyone caught in a flame war on a BBS knows that electronic communication is a different breed than face to face....more open and democratic in some ways, but lacking sorely in body language. With newer virtual reality communication, some aspects of face to face may be simulated, but how much, how soon I can't say...perhaps not in wide use and accepted by 2005. So how many of today's workers will want to forego the office environment? One possible solution...office co-ops in local sites. You and a few dozen of your neighbors have offices in a small building in your community. You each have a computerized workstation, you take coffee breaks together, you have an office softball team, and some of you go out for beer together once a week. Only you work for IBM, your friend works for a law firm, the woman across the aisle is a partner in a Chartered Accountant firm and the person beside her is a researcher for a TV show. You have a communal office environment with the social network aspects and without having to commute long distances, even though you work for a slew of disparate companies. Will it work? Robert Topic: Officeless Companies From: Tim Gorman 71336,1270 To: Gerard Van der Leun 76711,320 Hey, Before going whole hog on this, better address the implementation details! Who pays for the space, how is liability insurance handled, who changes the mindset of upper mgmt who wants to be able to look out over their domain and see everyone busily working, etc, who pays for office appliances (fax, copier, etc), and probably a host of other details. Not that these are insurmountable, the franchise idea in a later message is intriguing, but when negotiating with a large company like I work for, this is getting close to being "leased" space which is a no-no right now. Neither does it contribute to the "centralization" of workforces which also seems to be a trend sweeping the corporate culture (at least with corporations in the central USA). Don't get me wrong, I am a strong proponent of this decentralized operation. But we can't even get mgmt to agree to let someone work at home for an afternoon (sick child, etc) because they don't think full pay should be given but don't know how to negotiate with the union for a different wage scale nor do they think it is worth the effort to set up the accounting system to allow for it. Go figure. Tim The WELL The Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link is the meeting place of Mitchell Kapor and John Perry Barlow, font of inspiration for "Crime and Puzzlement" and the birthplace of EFF. You can reach the WELL at 27 Gate Five Road, Sausalito, CA 94965, (415)332-4335. You can also signup online by telnet'ing to well.sf.ca.us and signing on as "new". _______________________________________________________________________ Topic 318: Cable TV and the National Public Network #84 (of 96) Richard Lawler (richardl) Mon, Apr 13, '92 _49 Lines A few comments. Commercial ISDN products: I saw that Hayes is offering ISDN hardware for any Next computer for a few hundred bucks. To compliment this Next has fully integrated support for ISDN into their new operating system software. Additionally new systems from Next and Sun Microsystems will include the ISDN hardware as standard equipment. ISDN vs. analog: Sure you can get close to ISDN's bandwidth using the best analog tricks and tools. But the fact of the matter is that the analog phone lines are quite limited. Basic ISDN's bidirectional 64Kb/s is analogous to the analog phone's unidirectional 1200b/s. But just as that basic analog technology can be compressed and manipulated to achieve 38Kb/s, I believe ISDN will be upgraded and enhanced to achieve effective throughput well above the capabilities of the most advanced analog techniques. Applications: Currently its more cost effective for me to send a megabyte of data by Fed Ex than by standard 2400 baud modem. Even when sending that data only 50 miles. ISDN could change that equation. I could send that megabyte in about two minutes. I know few businesses that don't use services like Fed Ex. Could broadbased, standardized, basic digital communication like basic ISDN actually change some of the disturbing trends in our society? I believe it could work to reverse our ever increasing appetite for fossil fuels. It might reduce two of the pressures that cause this country to pave its most beautiful countrysides building shiny, aluminum industrial parks and housing developments: the cost and time required for transportation. It also might work to reduce the gridlock on our urban and suburban freeway systems. I think these benefits are in everyone's interest not just those of business and the wealthy. Compare the cost of digital switching systems with the cost of building new bridges, freeways, and rail systems. The cost of infrastructure is everyone's interest: the have's and the have not's. American Airlines just reduced their airfares partially in response to competition from, of all things, video tele-conferencing. ISDN and digital communications CAN actually compete with airplanes and automobiles. ISDN shouldn't just be viewed as a way to deliver the latest movie releases on demand. It should be thought of as a transportation and communications infrastructure that has the potential to change the economics and exigencies of our society and business in the coming decades. _______________________________________________________________________ Topic 318: Cable TV and the National Public Network #85 (of 96) habs (habs) Mon, Apr 13, '92 _20 Lines # 84: Richard Lawler (richardl) ISDN shouldn't just be viewed as a way to deliver the latest movie releases on demand. It should be thought of as a transportation and communications infrastructure that has the potential to change the economics and exigencies of our society and business in the coming decades. In fact, Basic Rate Interface (BRI) does not effectively deliver movies, but ISDN under ADSL could. I think that data back haul during BRI ISDN would be a key market. Data back haul is moving data from one site to an other. An example of this is for off-site back-up. Something that costs small business $$$, and not affordable to most home users. Of course data back haul is not going to be of interest to either of my grandmothers... _______________________________________________________________________ Topic 318: Cable TV and the National Public Network #86 (of 96) Tom Mandel (mandel) Mon, Apr 13, '92 _25 Lines I take sharp exception with the statement that American Airlines reduced its fares because of "among other things" competition from video-conferencing. If that is even a reason, and I doubt it very much, it is the *least* of all relevant reasons. In addition, there is little reason to believe that interactive digital communications will sharply reduce the amount of time people spend in cars. No one thinks that the need to meet f-t-f with other people will go away because of ISDN, at least not in the next 20 years. And for the growing number of people who do and will work more at home, more not less driving may be the rule of thumb. It is not a very good idea to promote ISDN or other information services as magical cures for society's energy and environmental ills. There is little to no evidence to suggest that they will be, and there is all sorts of evidence to foresee interesting problems associated with them. For knowledge workers already, the workplace has expanded well outside the walls of the conventional office; with good data linkups at home and elsewhere, it will become increasingly difficult ever to escape the "new workplace." (I don't know whether this is good or bad but I do know that it is happening and will happen more in the future.) -==--==--==-<>-==--==--==- ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION OFFERS T-SHIRTS For a $10 donation, EFF will send you a spiffy 100% cotton white T-shirt with the new black and red EFF logo tastefully displayed on front, and the following on the back: ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION eff@eff.org (50's style graphic with large building sitting on world) Serving Cyberspace since 1990 These are the very same hot t-shirts that sold quickly at CFP-2! They come in sizes XL and child's S only. Send your $10 check or money order to The Electronic Frontier Foundation ATT: Rita T. Shirts 155 Second Street Cambridge MA 02141 "What a DEAL! People will be hard-pressed to find a shirt of the same quality with such fantastic silk-screening for less than $20 in any T-shirt store in the country. (You can quote me on that.)" -- Brendan Kehoe upon receiving his shirt. *** Mention that you are an EFFector Online reader, and we will *** waive all shipping and handling charges! -==--==--==-<>-==--==--==- MEMBERSHIP IN THE ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION In order to continue the work already begun and to expand our efforts and activities into other realms of the electronic frontier, we need the financial support of individuals and organizations. If you support our goals and our work, you can show that support by becoming a member now. Members receive our quarterly newsletter, EFFECTOR, our bi-weekly electronic newsletter, EFFector Online (if you have an electronic address that can be reached through the Net), and special releases and other notices on our activities. But because we believe that support should be freely given, you can receive these things even if you do not elect to become a member. Your membership/donation is fully tax deductible. Our memberships are $20.00 per year for students, $40.00 per year for regular members. You may, of course, donate more if you wish. Our privacy policy: The Electronic Frontier Foundation will never, under any circumstances, sell any part of its membership list. We will, from time to time, share this list with other non-profit organizations whose work we determine to be in line with our goals. But with us, member privacy is the default. This means that you must actively grant us permission to share your name with other groups. If you do not grant explicit permission, we assume that you do not wish your membership disclosed to any group for any reason. ---------------- EFF MEMBERSHIP FORM --------------- Mail to: The Electronic Frontier Foundation, Inc. 155 Second St. #29 Cambridge, MA 02141 I wish to become a member of the EFF I enclose:$__________ $20.00 (student or low income membership) $40.00 (regular membership) $100.00(Corporate or company membership. This allows any organization to become a member of EFF. It allows such an organization, if it wishes to designate up to five individuals within the organization as members.) | I enclose an additional donation of $___________ Name:______________________________________________________ Organization:______________________________________________ Address: __________________________________________________ City or Town: _____________________________________________ State:_______ Zip:________ Phone:( )_____________(optional) FAX:( )____________________(optional) Email address: ______________________________ I enclose a check [ ] . Please charge my membership in the amount of $_____________ to my Mastercard [ ] Visa [ ] American Express [ ] Number:____________________________________________________ Expiration date: ____________ Signature: ________________________________________________ Date:______________________ I hereby grant permission to the EFF to share my name with other non-profit groups from time to time as it deems appropriate [ ] . Initials:___________________________ ===================================================================== EFFector Online is published by The Electronic Frontier Foundation 155 Second Street, Cambridge MA 02141 Phone:(617)864-0665 FAX:(617)864-0866 Internet Address: eff@eff.org Reproduction of this publication in electronic media is encouraged To reproduce signed articles individually, please contact the authors for their express permission. ===================================================================== Downloaded From P-80 International Information Systems 304-744-2253 12yrs+