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     EX-CIA OFFICIAL SPEAKS OUT                           By Greg Kaza      
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   This article is reprinted from Full Disclosure.                          
                                                                            
   Copyright (c) 1986 Capitol Information Association. All rights reserved  
   Permission is hereby granted to reprint this article providing           
   this message is included in its entirety.                                
                                                                            
   Full Disclosure, Box 8275, Ann Arbor, Michigan 48107.  $15/yr.           
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   Full Disclosure:                                                         
   I'd like to start out by talking about your  well-known book, `The CIA   
   and the Cult of Intelligence.' What edition is that in today?            
                                                                            
    Marchetti:                                                              
    The latest edition came out last summer.  Its the Laurel edition,       
    Dell paperback.                                                         
                                                                            
      FD: Its gone through a couple of printings?                           

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    Marchetti:                                                              
    Yes.  It was originally published by Alfred Knopf in hardback and       
    by Dell in paperback. That was in 1974 with Knopf and 1975 with         
    Dell.  Then a few years later we got some more of the deletions         
    back from the government, so Dell put out a second printing.            
                                                                            
    That would have been about 1979.  Then recently, during the             
    summer of 1983, we got back a few more deletions and that's the         
    current edition that is available in good bookstores (laughs) in        
    Dell paperback, the Laurel edition.                                     
                                                                            
    Originally the CIA asked for 340 deletions.  We got about half of       
    those back in negotiations prior to the trial.  We later won the        
    trial, they were supposed to give everything back but it was            
    overturned at the appellate level.                                      
                                                                            
    The Supreme Court did not hear the case, so the appellate decision      
    stood.  We got back 170 of those deletions in negotiations during       
    the trial period.  A few years later when the second paperback          
    edition came out there were another 24 deletions given back.            

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    The last time, in 1983, when the the third edition of the paperback     
    edition was published, there were another 35 given back.  So there      
    are still 110 deletions in the book out of an original 340.             
                                                                            
    As for the trial, the CIA sued in early 1972 to have the right to       
    review and censor the book.  They won that case.  It was upheld at      
    the appellate court in Richmond some months later, and again the        
    Supreme Court did not hear the case.                                    
                                                                            
    Two years later we sued the CIA on the grounds that they had been       
    arbitrary, capricious and unreasonable in making deletions and          
    were in violation of the injunction they had won in 1972.               
                                                                            
    We went before Judge Albert V. Bryan Jr., and in that case, he          
    decided in our favor.  Bryan was the same fourth district judge         
    in Alexandria who heard the original case.  He said that there          
    was nothing in the book that was harmful to national security or        
    that was logically classifiable.  Bryan said the CIA was being          
    capricious and arbitrary.                                               
                                                                            

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    They appealed, and a few months later down in Richmond the              
    appellate court for the fourth district decided in the                  
    government's favor, and overturned Bryan's decision.                    
                                                                            
    Again, the Supreme Court did not hear the case.  It chose not to        
    hear it, and the appellate court's decision stood.                      
                                                                            
    By this time, we had grown weary of the legal process.  The book        
    was published with blank spaces except for those items that had         
    been given back in negotiations.  Those items were printed in bold      
    face type to show the kind of stuff the CIA was trying to cut           
    out.  In all subsequent editions, the additional material is            
    highlighted to show what it is they were trying to cut out.             
                                                                            
    Of course the CIA's position is that only they know what is a           
    secret.  They don't make the national security argument because         
    that is too untenable these days.                                       
                                                                            
    They say that they have a right to classify anything that they          
    want to, and only they know what is classifiable.                       

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    They are establishing a precedent, and have established a               
    precedent in this case that has been used subsequently against          
    ex-CIA people like Frank Snepp and John Stockwell and others, and       
    in particular against Ralph McGee.                                      
                                                                            
    They've also used it against (laughing), its kind of ironic, two        
    former CIA directors, one of whom was William Colby.  Colby was         
    the guy behind my case when he was director.                            
                                                                            
    In fact, he was sued by the CIA and had to pay a fine of I think,       
    about $30,000 for putting something in that they wanted out about       
    the Glomar Explorer.  He thought they were just being, as I would       
    say, ``arbitrary and capricious,'' so he put it in anyway, was          
    sued, and had to pay a fine.                                            
                                                                            
    Admiral Stansfield Turner was another who, like Colby when he was       
    director, was the great defender of keeping everything secret and       
    only allowing the CIA to reveal anything.  When Turner got around       
    to writing his book he had the same problems with them and is           
    very bitter about it and has said so.                                   

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    His book just recently came out and he's been on a lot of TV            
    shows saying, ``Hells bells, I was director and I know what is          
    classified and what isn't but these guys are ridiculous,                
    bureaucratic,'' and all of these accusations you hear.  It is           
    ironic because even the former directors of the CIA have been           
    burned by the very precedents that they helped to establish.            
                                                                            
      FD: What are the prospects for the remaining censored sections        
          of your book eventually becoming declassified so that they        
          are available to the American people?                             
                                                                            
    Marchetti:                                                              
    If I have a publisher, and am willing to go back at the CIA every       
    year or two years forcing a review, little by little, everything        
    would come out eventually.  I can't imagine anything they would         
    delete.  There might be a few items that the CIA would hold onto        
    for principle's sake.                                                   
                                                                            
    Everything that is in that book, whether it was deleted or not, has     

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    leaked out in one way or another, has become known to the public in     
    one form or another since then.  So you know its really a big joke.     
                                                                            
      FD: Looking back on it, what effect did the publication of the        
          `The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence' have on your life?         
                                                                            
    Marchetti:                                                              
    It had a tremendous effect on my life.  The book put me in a position   
    where I would forever be persona non grata with the bureaucracy in      
    the federal government, which means, that I cannot get a job            
    anywhere, a job that is, specific to my background and talents.         
                                                                            
    Particularly if the company has any form of government relationship,    
    any kind of government contract.  That stops the discussions right      
    there.  But even companies that are not directly allied with the        
    government tend to be very skittish because I was so controversial      
    and they just don't feel the need to get into this.                     
                                                                            
    I have had one job since leaving the CIA other than writing,            
    consulting and things like that, and that was with an independent       

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    courier company which did no business with the government, was          
    privately owned, and really didn't care what the government thought.    
    They ran their own business and they hired me as their friend.          
    But every other job offered to me always evaporates, because even       
    those individuals involved in hiring who say they want to hire me and   
    think the government was wrong always finish saying, ``Business is      
    business.                                                               
                                                                            
    There are some people here who do not want to get involved in any       
    controversial case.'' Through allies or former employees somebody       
    always goes out of their way to make it difficult for me, so I never    
    have any other choice but to continue to be a freelance writer,         
    lecturer, consultant, etcetera, and even in that area I am frequently   
    penalized because of who I worked for.                                  
                                                                            
      FD: The government views you as a troublemaker or whistleblower?      
                                                                            
    Marchetti:                                                              
     As a whistleblower, and, I guess, troublemaker.  In the intelligence   
     community, as one who violated the code.                               

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      FD: The unspoken code?                                                
                                                                            
    Marchetti:                                                              
    Right.  And this has been the fate of all those CIA whistleblowers.     
    They've all had it hard.  Frank Snepp, Stockwell, McGee, and others,    
    have all suffered the same fate.                                        
                                                                            
    Whistleblowers in general, like Fitzgerald in the Department of         
    Defense, who exposed problems with the C-5A, overruns, have also        
    suffered the same kind of fate.  But since they were not dealing        
    in the magical area of national security they have found that they      
    have some leeway and have been able to, in many other cases, find       
    some other jobs.                                                        
                                                                            
    In some cases the government was even forced to hire them back.         
                                                                            
    Usually the government puts them in an office somewhere in a corner,    
    pays them $50,000 a year, and ignores them.  Which drives them crazy    
    of course, but thats the government's way of punishing anybody from     
    the inside who exposes all of these problems to the American public.    

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      FD: Phillip Agee explains in his book the efforts of the CIA to       
          undermine his writing of `Inside The Company' both before and     
          after publication.  Have you run into similar problems with       
          extralegal CIA harassment?                                        
                                                                            
    Marchetti:                                                              
    Yes.  I was under surveillance.  Letters were opened.  I am sure our    
    house was burglarized.  General harassment of all sorts, and the CIA    
    has admitted to some of these things.  One or two cases, because the    
    Church Committee found out.                                             
                                                                            
    For example,  the CIA  admitted to working with the IRS to try and      
    give me a bad time.  The  Church Committee  exposed that and            
    they had to drop it.                                                    
    They've admitted to certain other activities like the surveillance      
    and such, but the CIA will not release to me any documents under the    
    Freedom of Information Act.  They won't release it all -- any           
    documents under FOIA, period.                                           
                                                                            
      FD: About your time with the CIA?                                     

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    Marchetti:                                                              
    No, about my case.  I only want the information on me after             
    leaving the agency and they just refuse to do it.                       
    They've told me through friends ``You can sue until you're blue         
    in the face but you're not going to get this'' because they know        
    exactly what would happen.                                              
                                                                            
    It would be a terrible embarrassment to the CIA if all of the           
    extralegal and illegal activities they took became public.              
                                                                            
    The most interesting thing they did in my case was an attempt at        
    entrapment, by putting people in my path in the hopes that I would      
    deal with these people, who in at least one case turned out to be an    
    undercover CIA operator who was, if I had dealt with him, it would      
    have appeared that I was moving to deal with the Soviet KGB.            
                                                                            
    The CIA did things of that nature.  They had people come to me and      
    offer to finance projects if I would go to France, live there, and      
    write a book there without any censorship. Switzerland and Germany      
    were also mentioned.                                                    

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    The CIA used a variety of techniques of that sort.  I turned down       
    all of them because my theory is that the CIA should be exposed         
    to a certain degree in the hope that Congress could conduct some        
    investigation out of which would come some reform.                      
    I was playing the game at home and that is the way I was going to       
    play.  Play it by the rules, whatever handicap that meant.  Which       
    in the end was a tremendous handicap.  But it did work out in the       
    sense that my book did get published.                                   
                                                                            
    The CIA drew a lot of attention to it through their attempts to         
    prevent it from being written and their attempts at censorship,         
    which simply increased the appetite of the public, media, and           
    Congress, to see what they were trying to hide and why.                 
    All of this was happening at a time when other events were              
    occurring.  Ellsberg's Pentagon Papers had come out about the           
    same time I announced I was doing my book.  Some big stories            
    were broken by investigative journalists.                               
                                                                            
    All of these things together, my book was part of it, did lead          
    ultimately to congressional investigations of the CIA.                  

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    I spent a lot of time behind the scenes on the Hill with senators       
    and congressman lobbying for these investigations and they              
    finally did come to pass.                                               
                                                                            
    It took awhile.  President Ford tried to sweep everything under         
    the rug by creating the Rockefeller Commission, which admitted to       
    a few CIA mistakes but swept everything under the rug.                  
                                                                            
    It didn't wash publicly.  By this time, the public didn't buy the       
    government's lying.  So we ultimately did have the Pike Committee,      
    which the CIA and the White House did manage to sabotage.               
                                                                            
    But the big one was the Church Committee in the Senate which            
    conducted a pretty broad investigation and brought out a lot of         
    information on the CIA.                                                 
                                                                            
    The result of that investigation was that the CIA did have to admit     
    to a lot of wrongdoing and did have to make certain reforms.            
                                                                            
    Not as much as I would have liked.                                      

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    I think everything has gone back to where it was and maybe even         
    worse than what it was, but at least there was a temporary halt         
    to the CIA's free reign of hiding behind secrecy and getting away       
    with everything, up to and including murder.  There were some           
    changes and I think they were all for the better.                       
                                                                            
      FD: So instead of some of the more harsher critics of the CIA who     
          would want to see it abolished you would want to reform it?       
                                                                            
    Marchetti:                                                              
    Yes.  Its one of these things where you can't throw out the baby        
    with the bathwater.  The CIA does do some very good and valuable        
    and worthwhile and legal things.  Particularly in the collection        
    of information throughout the world, and in the analysis of             
    events around the world.  All of this is a legitimate activity,         
    and what the CIA was really intended to do in the beginning when        
    they were set up.                                                       
                                                                            
    My main complaint is that over the years those legitimate               
    activities have to a great extent been reduced in importance,           

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    and certain clandestine activities, particularly the covert             
    action, have come to the fore.                                          
                                                                            
    Covert action is essentially the intervention in the internal           
    affairs of other governments in order to manipulate events,             
    using everything from propaganda, disinformation, political             
    action, economic action, all the way down to the really dirty           
    stuff like para-military activity.                                      
    This activity, there was too much of it.  It was being done for         
    the wrong reasons, and it was counterproductive.  It was in this area   
    where the CIA was really violating U.S.  law and the intent of          
    the U.S.  Constitution, and for that matter, I think, the wishes        
    of Congress and the American people.                                    
                                                                            
    This was the area that needed to be thoroughly investigated             
    and reformed.  My suggestion was that the CIA should be split           
    into two organizations.                                                 
                                                                            
    One, the good CIA so to speak, would collect and analyze                
    information.  The other part, in the dirty tricks business,             

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    would be very small and very tightly controlled by Congress and         
    the White House, and if possible, some kind of a public board so        
    that it didn't get out of control.                                      
                                                                            
    My theory is, and I've proved it over and over again along              
    with other people, is that the basic reason for secrecy is not          
    to keep the enemy from knowing what you're doing.                       
                                                                            
    He knows what you're doing because he's the target of it, and           
    he's not stupid.  The reason for the CIA to hide behind secrecy         
    is to keep the public, and in particular the American public,           
    from knowing what they're doing.                                        
                                                                            
    This is done so that the President can deny that we were                
    responsible for sabotaging some place over in Lebanon where a lot       
    of people were killed.  So that the President can deny, period.         
    Here is a good example:                                                 
                                                                            
    President Eisenhower denied we were involved in attempts to             
    overthrow the Indonesian government in 1958 until the CIA guys          

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    got caught and the Indonesians produced them.  He looked like           
    a fool.  So did the N.Y. Times and everybody else who believed          
    him.  That is the real reason for secrecy.                              
                                                                            
    There is a second reason for secrecy.  That is that if the public       
    doesn't know what you are doing you can lie to them because they        
    don't know what the truth is.                                           
                                                                            
    This is a very bad part of the CIA because this is where you            
    get not only propaganda on the American people but actually             
    disinformation, which is to say lies and falsehoods, peddled to         
    the American public as the truth and which they accept as gospel.       
    That's wrong.  It's not only wrong, its a lie and it allows the         
    government and those certain elements of the government that can        
    hide behind secrecy to get away with things that nobody knows about.    
    If you carefully analyze all of these issues that keep coming up in     
    Congress over the CIA, this is always what is at the heart of it:       
    That the CIA lied about it, or that the CIA misrepresented something,   
    or the White House did it, because  the CIA  and  the White House       
    work hand in glove.                                                     

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    The CIA is not a power unto itself.  It is an instrument of power.      
    A tool.  A very powerful tool which has an influence on                 
    whoever is manipulating it.                                             
                                                                            
    But  basically  the CIA  is controlled  by the White House,  the        
    inner  circle   of government,  the  inner  circle   of  the            
    establishment, in general.                                              
                                                                            
    The CIA is doing what these people want done so these people            
    are appreciative and protective of them, and they in turn make          
    suggestions or even go off on their own sometimes and operate           
    deep cover for the CIA. So it develops into a self-feeding circle.      
                                                                            
      FD: Spreading disinformation is done through the newsmedia.           
                                                                            
    Marchetti:                                                              
    Yes.  Its done through the newsmedia.  The fallacy is that the CIA      
    says the real reason they do this is to con the Soviets.                
    Now, I'll give you some examples.  One was a fellow by the name         
    of Colonel Oleg Penkovsky.                                              

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      FD: Penkovsky Papers?                                                 
                                                                            
    Marchetti:                                                              
    Yes.  I wrote about that in `The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence.      
    The Penkovsky Papers  was a phony story.   We wrote the book in         
    the CIA.  Now, who in the hell are we kidding? The Soviets?             
                                                                            
    Do we think for one minute that the Soviets, who among other things     
    captured Penkovsky, interrogated him, and executed him, do you think    
    for one minute they believe he kept a diary like that? How could he     
    have possibly have done it under the circumstances?                     
                                                                            
    The whole thing is ludicrous.  So we're not fooling the Soviets.        
    What we're doing is fooling the American people and pumping up          
    the CIA.  The British are notorious for this kind of thing.             
    They're always putting out phony autobiographies and biographies        
    on their spies and their activities which are just outright lies.       
    They're done really to maintain the myth of English secret              
    intelligence so that they will continue to get money to continue        
    to operate.  Thats the real reason.                                     

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    The ostensible reason is that we were trying to confuse the             
    Soviets.  Well that's bullshit because they're not confused.            
                                                                            
    One of the ones I think is really great is `Khruschev Remembers.'       
                                                                            
    If anybody in his right mind believes that Nikita Khruschev sat         
    down, and dictated his memoirs, and somebody -- Strobe Talbot           
    sneaked out of the Soviet Union with them they're crazy.                
                                                                            
    That story is a lie.  That book was a joint operation between the       
    CIA and the KGB.  Both of them were doing it for the exact same         
    reasons.  They both wanted to influence their own publics.              
                                                                            
    We did it our way by pretending that Khruschev had done all of this     
    stuff and we had lucked out and somehow gotten a book out of it.        
                                                                            
    The Soviets did it because they could not in their system allow         
    Khruschev to write his memoirs.  Thats just against everything          
    that the Communist system stands for.  But they did need him to         
    speak out on certain issues.                                            

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    Brezhnev particularly needed him to short-circuit some of the           
    initiatives of the right wing, the Stalinist wing of the party.         
                                                                            
    Of course the KGB was not going to allow the book to be published       
    in the Soviet Union.  The stuff got out so that it could be             
    published by the Americans.  That doesn't mean that the KGB             
    didn't let copies slip into the Soviet Union and let it go all          
    around.  The Soviets achieved their purpose too.                        
                                                                            
    This is one of the most fantastic cases, I think, in intelligence       
    history.  Two rival governments cooperated with each other on a         
    secret operation to dupe their respective publics.                      
                                                                            
    I always wanted to go into much greater length on this but I just       
    never got around to it.  Suffice it to say that TIME magazine           
    threatened to cancel a two-page magazine article they were doing        
    on me and my book if I didn't cut a brief mention of this episode       
    out of the book.                                                        
                                                                            
      FD: How was this operation initially set up?                          

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    Marchetti:                                                              
    I don't know all of the ins and outs of it.                             
    I imagine what happened is that it probably started with                
    somebody in the Soviet Politburo going to Khruschev and saying,         
    ``Hey, behind the scenes we're having lots of trouble with the          
      right-wing Stalinist types.                                           
                                                                            
    They're giving Brehznev a bad time and they're trying to undercut all   
    of the changes you made and all of the changes Brehznev has made and    
    wants to make.  Its pretty hard to deal with it so we've got an idea.   
    Since you're retired and living here in your dacha why don't you just   
    sit back and dictate your memoirs.                                      
    And of course the KGB will review them and make sure you don't say      
    anything you shouldn't say and so on and so forth.  Then we will get    
    in touch with our counterparts, and see to it that this information     
    gets out to the West, which will publish it, and then it will get       
    back to the Soviet Union in a variety of forms.                         
                                                                            
    It will get back in summaries broadcast by the Voice of America and     
    Radio Liberty, and copies of the book will come back in, articles       

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    written about it will be smuggled in, and this in turn will be a big    
    influence on the intelligentsia and the party leaders and it will       
    undercut Suslov and the right wingers.''                                
                                                                            
    Khruschev  said okay.  The KGB  then went to  the CIA and explained     
    things to them  and  the CIA  said,  Well that sounds good,  we'll      
    get some  friends of ours  here,  the  TIME  magazine  bureau in        
    Moscow, Jerry Schecter would later have a job in the White House        
    as a press officer.                                                     
                                                                            
    We'll get people like Strobe Talbot, who is working at the bureau       
    there, we'll get these guys to act as the go-betweens.  They'll         
    come and see you for the memoirs and everyone will play dumb.           
                                                                            
    You give them two suitcases full of tapes (laughs) or something         
    like that and let them get out of the Soviet Union.  Which is           
    exactly what happened.                                                  
                                                                            
    Strobe brought all of this stuff back to Washington and then            
    TIME-LIFE began to process it and put a book together.                  

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    They wouldn't let anybody hear the tapes, they didn't show anybody      
    anything.  A lot of people were very suspicious.                        
                                                                            
    You know you can tell this to the public or anybody else who doesn't    
    have the least brains in their head about how the Soviet Union          
    operates and get away with it.  But anybody who knows the least bit     
    about the Soviet Union knows the whole thing is impossible.             
    A former Soviet premier cannot sit in his dacha and make these tapes    
    and then give them to a U.S. newspaperman and let him walk out of the   
    country with them.  That cannot be done in a closed society, a police   
    state, like the Soviet Union.                                           
                                                                            
    The book was eventually published but before it was published there     
    was another little interesting affair.  Strobe Talbot went to           
    Helsinki with the manuscript, where he was met by the KGB who           
    took it back to Leningrad, looked at it, and then it was finally        
    published by TIME-LIFE.                                                 
    None of that has ever been explained in my book.  A couple of           
    other journalists have made references to this episode but              
    never went into it.                                                     

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    It's an open secret in the press corps here in Washington and New       
    York, but nobody ever wrote a real big story for a lot of reasons,      
    because I guess it's just the kind of story that it's difficult         
    for them to get their hooks into.                                       
    I knew people who were then in the White House and State Department     
    who were very suspicious of it because they thought the KGB...          
                                                                            
      FD: Had duped TIME?                                                   
                                                                            
    Marchetti:                                                              
    Exactly.  Once they learned this was a deal they quieted down and       
    ceased their objections and complaints, and even alibied and lied       
    afterwards as part of the bigger game.                                  
                                                                            
    Victor Lewis, who was apparently instrumental in all of these           
    negotiations, later fit into one little footnote to this story          
    that I've often wondered about.                                         
    Lewis is (was)...  After all of this happened and when the little       
    furor that existed here in official Washington began dying down,        
    Victor Lewis went to Tel Aviv for medical treatment.                    

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    He came into the country very quietly but somebody spotted him and      
    grabbed him and said, ``What are you doing here in Israel?''            
                                                                            
    ``Well I'm here for medical treatment, '' Lewis said.  They             
    said,``What?! You're here in Israel for medical treatment?''            
                                                                            
    He said, ``Yes.'' They said, ``Well whats the problem?'' ``I've         
    got lumbago, a back problem, and they can't fix it in the Soviet        
    Union.  but there's a great Jewish doctor here I knew in the            
    Soviet Union and I came to see him.''                                   
                                                                            
    That sounds like the  craziest story you ever wanted to hear.           
    But then another individual appeared in Israel at the same time         
    and some reporter spotted him.  He happened to be  Richard Helms,       
    then-director  of the CIA.   He asked Helms what  he was doing in       
    Israel,  and he had some kind of a  lame excuse  which started          
    people wondering whether this was the payoff.                           
                                                                            
    Helms acting for the CIA, TIME-LIFE, and the U.S.  government, and      
    Lewis acting for the KGB, Politburo, and the Soviet government.         

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                       EX-CIA OFFICIAL SPEAKS OUT                           
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    Its really a fascinating story.                                         
                                                                            
    I wrote about briefly in the book and it was very short.  You'll        
    find it if you look through the book in the section we're talking       
    about. Publications and things like that.                               
                                                                            
    When I wrote those few paragraphs there wasn't much further I could     
    go, because there was a lot of speculation and analysis.                
    Around the time my book came out, TIME magazine decided that they       
    would do a two-page spread in their news section and give it a          
    boost.  Suddenly I started getting calls from Jerry Schecter and        
    Strobe Talbot about cutting that part out.                              
                                                                            
    I said I would not cut  it out unless they could look me in the         
    eye and say I was wrong. If it wasn't true I would take the book        
    and cut the material out. But neither of them chose to do that.         
    Right before the article appeared in TIME I got a call from one of      
    the editors telling me that some people wanted to kill the article.     
    I asked why and he said one of the reasons is what you had to say       
    about TIME magazine being involved in the Khruschev Remembers book.     

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                       EX-CIA OFFICIAL SPEAKS OUT                           
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    I asked him, ``Thats it?'' I had talked to Jerry and Strobe and         
    this was their backstab.  This editor asked me if I could find          
    somebody who could  trump the people  who were  trying to have          
    the article killed.  Somebody who could verify my credentials           
    in telling the story.                                                   
                                                                            
    I said why don't you call Richard Helms, who by that time had been      
    eased out of office by Kissinger and Nixon, and was now an ambassador   
    in Teheran.  So this editor called Helms to verify my credentials       
    (laughing) and Helms said, ``Yeah, he's a good guy. He just got pissed  
    off and wanted to change the CIA.'' So the article ran in TIME.         
    I think you're one of the very few people I've explained this           
    story to in depth.                                                      
                                                                            
      FD: Did this operation have a name?                                   
                                                                            
    Marchetti:                                                              
    It probably did but I was already out of the agency and I don't know    
    what it was.  But I do know it was a very sensitive activity and that   
    people very high up in the White House and State Department who you     

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                       EX-CIA OFFICIAL SPEAKS OUT                           
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    would have thought would have been aware of it were not aware of it.    
    But then subsequently they were clearly taken into a room and           
    talked to in discussions and were no longer critics and doubters        
    and in fact became defenders of it.                                     
                                                                            
      FD: Let me make sure I am clear about the CIA's motivation...         
                                                                            
    Marchetti:                                                              
    The CIA's motivation was that here we have a former Soviet premier      
    talking out about the events of his career and revealing some pretty    
    interesting things about his thinking and the thinking of others.       
    All of which shows that the Soviet Union is run by a very small         
    little clique.  A very small Byzantine-like clique.                     
                                                                            
    There is a strong tendency to stick with Stalinisn and turn             
    to Stalinism but some of the cooler heads, the more moderate            
    types,  are trying to make changes.                                     
                                                                            
    Its good stuff from the CIA's point of view and from the                
    U.S. government's point of view.       --- TO BE CONTINUED IN FEB ---   


