.id AA00275; Sat, 8 Jul 95 21:37:05 CDT
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 1995 21:37:04 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 5 Num. 51



              Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 5  Num. 51
             ======================================
                    ("Quid coniuratio est?")


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INTERVIEW WITH DEBRA VON TRAPP -- JULY 5, 1995
I spoke by phone with Debra von Trapp on July 5, 1995. What 
follows is an *abbreviated* transcript of that interview.

By way of introduction, Debra von Trapp was featured on a recent 
segment of the NBC *Dateline* "News" program. Said segment dealt 
with alternative, non-official views as to who was behind the 
tragic Oklahoma City bombing. Ms. von Trapp claims to have inside 
knowledge as to who was actually behind the bombing and why it 
was done.

Note that, as always, I neither necessarily agree nor disagree 
with either all or parts of the following.

 +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +

[...continued...]

DEBRA VON TRAPP [continues]:
Additionally, again: the unabomber is known for having an 
absolute hatred of technology or anyone related to it. Yet 
allegedly, he has been contacting Bob Guccione. So Guccione went 
on-camera, publicly, for the news media, the day of this 
announcement and said he has been having extensive conversations 
with the unabomber. First we would have to believe that he 
[unabomber] has had no contact with law enforcement, and *if* he 
had, that law enforcement had certainly lost its ability to trace 
phone calls or apprehend criminals. Or how could he have had 
extensive contact with this guy without them having lead one 
about who he is or where he is? Secondly, and *more* notably, Bob 
Guccione is the leading publisher of scientific, technology 
publications in the Soviet Union, and is known to, out of pocket, 
at his own personal expense, spend millions of dollars to advance 
technology and research in the United States. One would, 
therefore, more easily conclude that it would be reasonable that 
the unabomber would have made Guccione a target, not a "comrade", 
not a confidante. And it just smacks of an FBI conspiracy.


CONSPIRACY NATION:
Goin' back to this Columbus Day/Yom Kippur holiday scenario, 
you... in other words, people would not be payin' attention to 
things, they would be enjoyin' the holiday, and that would be the 
time the FBI or whoever would pull something?


DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Just like the 4th of July! They were under way too much pressure 
to try to explain why, even though they've had McVeigh in custody 
since week one, they have yet to not only indict him but they've 
asked to wait 'til August to do so. They have no other suspects. 
They have no accounting as to how he allegedly conducted this or 
created his access into the Murrah Building; or how that building 
came down, with the story they're trying to advance regarding a 
"fertilizer bomb" in a truck. They're doing such a poor job of it 
and they have no way out of it. But they *had* to advance another 
scare. What better time to do it than the 4th of July, when lots 
of families are travelling across this country. And then they 
even affected our *mail* system by doing this.


CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah, okay. And I've heard also that, supposedly, if it was a 
"fertilizer bomb" then, there's a courthouse building that's 
directly across from the Murrah Building. And you've got a 
situation where, supposedly, you've got a truck parked in-between 
the two buildings. And it [bomb] goes off, but only one building 
gets damaged. And the other building, that is equally proximate, 
just has a few windows broken.


DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Yeah! It's sort of remarkable when you consider that the ATF 
comes out with this story that the reason that some of their 
agents weren't in the building is because they were across the 
street, in the courthouse! [laughs]


CONSPIRACY NATION:
[laughs]


DEBRA VON TRAPP:
They knew where to go!


CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah, yeah. 'Cuz you would think that... I mean, some people I 
know will say, "Oh. Well haven't you ever heard of a 'directional 
bomb'?", or something.


DEBRA VON TRAPP:
A "fertilizer bomb" is not a directional bomb.


CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah! That's just it. So, you know, the question -- and I had 
heard somebody raise this question, and I just figured I'd put it 
to you, 'cuz you might know something about it, is: if there's a 
Ryder truck parked between the two buildings, then why does only 
one building get damaged so much, and the other one just has a 
few windows broken?


DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Because there was no Ryder truck parked with a "fertilizer bomb" 
in front of the building, and there were, in fact, three 
explosive devices inside the Murrah Building, set, specifically, 
in a pattern which *guaranteed* that the Secret Service personnel 
would be terminated when that explosive device, when these 
explosive devices were set.


CONSPIRACY NATION:
Okay. You know, somethin' else I heard too is that, allegedly, 
some federal agents had surrounded your house or something like 
that?


DEBRA VON TRAPP:
That's true. Last Friday, at 1:40 pm, my house was surrounded by, 
uh within my view at the time I first looked, 4 cars, 7 agents, 
plainclothes, that looked over my back fence into my dining room 
window, and stood at the front door, repeatedly knocking and 
ringing the bell -- and then listening. Alternating between 
beating on the door and then listening, with their ear against 
the door, to see if they could hear anything.


CONSPIRACY NATION:
Do you have any idea who they were?


DEBRA VON TRAPP:
No. My take on this... because, of course, I've worked with so 
many of these "teams", they physically have certain 
characteristics, across-the-board. It is my judgement that I was 
looking at FBI.


CONSPIRACY NATION:
Okay, and they were tryin' to get you to answer the door, but you 
just figured it'd be best not to answer the door.


DEBRA VON TRAPP:
I stayed inside. In fact, two other people were inside with me at 
the time. And my position was that I had committed no crime, had 
no reason to be taken into custody.

It's a typical pattern in federal law enforcement, if you want to 
harass someone, you take them into custody for questioning before 
a long weekend, with the intent that they not be allowed to 
communicate with anyone or obtain any counsel, usually, until the 
day after. You know, when the court is again in session. So 
potentially, they could've kept me until today [Wednesday, 7/5/95], 
especially if they, in fact, created some false allegation in 
order to put me in a position where I could not have been 
arraigned until this morning.

I, in fact, am now represented by a very high-level, or I should 
say, high-profile, federal criminal defense attorney who was 
previously a federal prosecutor, so that in the event that any 
federal agency should attempt to harass me or create a false 
allegation against me, that this individual will immediately be 
there to represent me.


CONSPIRACY NATION:
Okay, let me address something else: there's (and the fireworks 
may fly on this, but I'll address it anyway)... You're familiar 
with somebody named Linda Thompson, I assume.


DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Yes, I'm aware of her. I have seen her in [unclear] an interview 
on television and have had *one* extended and two extremely brief 
conversations with her.


CONSPIRACY NATION:
And what was your impression of her?


DEBRA VON TRAPP:
I believe that Linda is someone who is competent as an attorney, 
has a political agenda that is very different from mine and is 
very drawn towards publicity and the media. And, in fact, creates 
scenarios in which she attracts their attention. And that seems 
to be the purpose of the office that she runs: to obtain and 
attract media attention. We are in very different businesses and 
very different fields, and conduct ourselves (to the best of my 
knowledge, personally) professionally in an extremely different 
manner: Linda's extremely public, I'm extremely private; Linda's 
extremely political and liberal, I'm extremely non-political and 
conservative.

So, we are just two extremely different people.


CONSPIRACY NATION:
Anything else goin' on, that you want to say?


DEBRA VON TRAPP:
We are dealing with a very serious issue here. It involves 
innocent victims, citizens of the United States that are fellow 
Americans, that have been victims of federal agents acting 
outside the law.

I really am alarmed at the unabomber "fairy tale" that's been 
advanced by the FBI. I think everyone should not only look 
carefully at it, but understand that, over 17 years, a lot of 
media coverage has taken place regarding this man: his profile, 
and FBI information about him. (That can be obtained from a 
number of sources, including databases at the library.) But I 
encourage everyone to look at that, and compare that to the 
information [now] being advanced. And take a look at the 
communication pattern that seems to be consistent with FBI 
allegations -- and that is, between the *Washington Post*, the 
*New York Times*, Bob Guccione and the FBI. And, just watch that. 
Because I made a prediction, and I've made two public statements 
so far. And one was that a federal building would be taken down, 
and it happened the next day. Another was that the FBI would 
advance a wild, bomb scare story to divert the public attention: 
it happened the next day. The prediction I've made now, publicly 
and on talk radio, has been that the unabomber did not *do* this! 
And, in fact, he will be so *angered* at being given any 
responsibility for any of what has taken place over the holiday, 
that he will specifically, in his usual style, and quietly, 
target one or more of the participants in this wild story, and 
will, in fact, target them, deliver a device to them, and, once 
accomplished, he will follow up in his *usual* pattern and take 
credit for it to show the public *who* he is and that he, in 
fact, was not responsible for *that* [L.A. airport bomb scare].

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Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et 
  pauperem.                    -- Liber Proverbiorum  XXXI: 8-9 

 Brian Francis Redman    bigxc@prairienet.org    "The Big C"
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