From server@prairienet.org Tue Jun 27 21:57:11 1995
	id VAA09972; Tue, 27 Jun 1995 21:53:40 +0200
	id AA26727; Tue, 27 Jun 95 14:44:58 CDT
Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 5 Num. 34
X-Comment:  Conspiracy Nation




              Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 5  Num. 34
             ======================================
                    ("Quid coniuratio est?")


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Thanks to a Conspiracy Nation reader for sending me his 
transcript of an interview with Debra von Trapp. Standard 
disclaimer: I neither necessarily agree nor disagree with either 
all or parts of the following.
                         -- Brian Francis Redman, Editor-in-Chief

 +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +

Subject: Von Trapp - more to come

Hi Brian,

On Wednesday, June 21st I called Debra Von Trapp to ask her about 
a show (radio) she was supposed to be on. At the last minute, she 
was canceled. The host said she was spreading disinformation. I 
wanted to get her perspective. She started telling me about the 
"Dateline" show which she appeared on (which I missed) and how 
that all transpired. I ended up recording what I could of my 
conversation with her. I apologize for the incompleteness of this 
transcript. I turned on the tape machine late and it ran out of 
tape before the interview was over.  The following is what I 
ended up with:

---------------- tape starts here -------------------------------

Debra: . . . NBC was the same news organization that went after 
the Mena Arkansas, all the witnesses that could testify against 
Clinton and the drug operation that was out of Mena Arkansas. 
When they went out and interviewed all of those witnesses, got 
all of the evidence, they never AIRED any of it. And in fact some 
of the witnesses that they actually interviewed, later ended up 
DEAD.

Chuck: Oh, wow.

Debra: And when they came out and interviewed Gundersen (Ted) and 
Ken Parton(sp?) and myself, like, for example with me, I TAPED 
the interview that they conducted at the Hyatt Regency, with me, 
and the interview is almost two and a half hours long . . .

Chuck: Unbeknownst to them? Or were they aware of it.

Debra: Oh no no, I told them I wouldn't . . that the condition of 
the interview was that I tape the interview.

Chuck: Taped as in audio tape? Or video.

Debra: Video

Chuck: Oh, video tape.

Debra: I have a Sony 8mm.

Chuck: Oh, okay.

Debra: Now that entire interview is very detailed, every question 
they came at me with was answered fully, um, well documented and 
then put down any attack that they made about me personally or 
the information. I had all the facts there. INCLUDING during that 
taping THEY admitted that they had all my documents.  Chris 
Hanson(sp?) specifically alludes to the fact, that he has all my 
documents. Yet during the broadcast, they say on the air, that I 
say I have documents, and video and audio, and I refused to give 
it to them, but in fact on my tape, they admit they have it, and 
then they ask me for the video and audio tape, and I tell them 
that I will give it to them for that use of that broadcast only, 
they left town and never asked me for it. I followed up with a 
FAX to them and voicemail, pointing out the fact that they didn't 
ask me for it, and I found that highly suspicious, and then I 
turned around and used their own FEDEX account number that they 
had given me earlier  . . .

Chuck: Uh, huh.

Debra: I faxed (she means FEDEXed) the video tape to the next 
location that they were taping at, which was the militia in 
Michigan . . .

Chuck: Uh, huh.

Debra: They have it on their VCR, ready, during their interview, 
and which did not air, they didn't air the actual they conducted 
with them a few days later . . .

Chuck: Uh, huh.

Debra: And they refused to look at it, or to take it. Which we 
found just stunning. First they wouldn't take it from me, then 
they wouldn't take it from Norm Olson(sp?) And yet they on air 
they said that they didn't have my documents or video because I 
refused to give it to 'em!

Chuck: I tell ya, these people are just obscene.

Debra: And then they said these, . .uh, .  the statements such as 
that, . . um, . that I had . . not . uh, or I had enemies in the 
government and I said  . . or the Irvine Police Department 
(Irvine, California) was an agent of my enemies in the government 
(laughs). I called Beno(?) Schmidt(sp?) the actual producer on 
this segment, again the guy who won't admit, you know,  he put 
Joe Del Monico's(sp?) name on it and not his own, because his 
daddy was the president of Yale. Um, I left him a voicemail 
today(6/21/95) and said, "Beno, ya know, I'm noticing two things, 
first of all, that you didn't put your name on that, and is that 
because your daddy told you  after I discovered who you were and 
he was, um, that maybe it was better not to do that? (laughs) 
That you be identified with Wollsey(sp?) and Bush and Clinton. 
And then also, I noted that you claimed on air that I have 
enemies in the government." and I said, "I have now reviewed,  
every piece of video tape that I have, while I'm in your 
presence, my voicemail messages to you, and all the hard copied 
facsimile documentation, and all my messages hand written, and in 
*none* of these documents can I find any reference to enemies in 
the government. So, here's the question: Beno Schmidt - Who  are 
my enemies in the government? You seem to know and I don't." 
(laughing)

Chuck: And you would *like* to know, right?

Debra: Yeah, and I said please disclose it immediately (laughing) 
you know. I know you have a FEDEX account, because I used it 
(laughs) and you know, please write 'em down tomorrow and have 
them to me by Friday, because I'm deeply concerned if you've 
identified some government enemies that I have, I need to know 
about them (laughs)

Chuck: Oh, yeah, definitely

Debra:  Um, their  . . the almost entire coverage was erroneous. 
And in what uh,  . . you know, they've really done a disservice 
to, I think, everyone, especially the victims in Oklahoma City . 
. .
Chuck: Oh, definitely

Debra: They have so much information from me, and they 
characterized me as a conspiracy theorist, when in fact, I have 
NEVER been politically active, I have NEVER made public 
statements until April 18th which was the day before the bombing, 
when I put out my first press release, uh, um, the information I 
gave to Sarah MacClendon(sp?) right after, uh, Clinton's speech, 
referencing this information and the fact that a federal building 
was going to be attacked. And then, of course it happened the 
next day. But, I have not been public at all. Uh, my career, I'm 
known as being extremely private, in my personal life, I'm know 
for being extremely private, and they tried to paint me as 
someone who has conspiracy theories and in fact that has never 
been the case, and I've never discussed anything like this. What 
actually happened was, they prepared this story and went after a 
woman, I believe her  name is Linda Thompson?

Chuck: Oh, yeah, I know of Linda.

Debra: Yeah, that covered Waco.

Chuck: Right. She did a video tape. She's a lawyer, right?

Debra: Okay, and what happened was that, Beno Schmidt and his 
crew flew to Linda Thompson's  location after arraigning an 
interview for her on this segment. They, according to Beno 
Scmidt's story, started the taping, they had already set up the 
crew, the lights, the chairs, she walked in, and as they were 
beginning the interview, she demanded a *payment* for the 
interview. And they explained to her, that they were a news 
organization, and would not pay her to be taped. She got in a 
huff and walked off. Now that's Beno Schmidt's statement. In 
fact, he said to me, "She stiffed us. She walked out on us after 
asking for a check." And I think what happened, is they had 
prepared this information, and the questioning, and the whole 
positioning of that story, for *Linda*.  And instead, they 
couldn't get her, they came after me after reviewing the Internet 
or where ever they suggest they picked me up. And what they were 
actually approaching was a story coming from a witness inside an 
operation that culminated in the downing of that building , but 
they never represented that. And none of the information that 
they put out conformed at all to any of the statements that I 
gave them. In fact the only clips of me they show, that brief 
encounter regarding my statement about, um, the FBI, uh, accusing 
Tim McVeigh, was in fact after they had just *hammered* me for 
almost an *hour* over . . . uh, . . . wild statements, like, 
"You've been on talk shows, and you've been actively seeking 
publicity, and you just did this as a publicity stunt." And I 
just . . . I kept saying to them, "Who are you talking about?" 
You know, you couldn't have prepared these questions for me, 
because, I . .  you know, . . I don't know where you did your 
research. It occurred to me, this is the Linda Thompson 
interview. And all they did was transfer the Linda Thompson 
interview to my segment and, I was *confused* because I didn't 
know where they were coming from with this information.

Chuck: Oh.

Debra: And  they were just desperate to, I guess,  interview 
Linda, and didn't get her, and decided to use me instead.(laughs) 
But that's, that's what happened on that segment. So what I've 
done, that interview, that *I* have taped, um, parts of it are 
very, the camera is very shaky. The person holding it, was 
actually not on a tripod(the camera). But what's important is, 
the audio to it, of course. And so, I'm, I'm considering either, 
um, editing only to the point of taking out dupli . . they did 
some takes and re-takes on certain questions, . . .

Chuck: Uh, huh.

Debra: And I was thinking of either just re-editing only to make 
sure that I've only removed duplicate  takes or if it's too hard 
to watch in terms of the shakiness of the camera, maybe just 
doing an audio of the entire interview and having that publicly 
available, so people could listen to what actually the difference 
was between the Dateline interview that took place between myself 
and Chris Hanson and then what was aired,  which was entirely 
different.

Chuck: Yeah, well . . . 

Debra: And, . and, . . if . . if anyone who listens to the real 
interview can see that it was conducted very differently. They 
were given lots of background information, um, . .

Chuck: And what . . .

Debra: . . . documentation, photos were referenced, I mean went 
right down the line. It was a very hard core interview, and yet 
they don't suggest that any of that evidence was given to 'em 
during that . . you know . . segment that they did.

Chuck: Yeah, I talked to Sherman today, and he said the whole 
story was about 14 minutes, and they didn't show hardly anything 
of you. It was  . . you were walking somewhere and then walking 
away or some . .  I don't know. It was . . .

Debra:  Yeah,  they just told me walk down the sidewalk, sit down 
on the bench, just to do some little outtake shots (actually 
transitions shots), I remember when I was sitting on the bench, I 
was thinking, "you know, this is so out of character", people 
never see me do things like this.

Chuck: Uh, huh.

Debra: The most you would ever see me is maybe walking down an 
isle or something at a computer show. But I'm just not public. 
You don't even see me out in public. No one sees me unescorted. I 
just sort of, you know, an old-fashioned woman in that respect.  
I'm never alone. Um and I mean if I'm not with my son, I'm with 
an assistant or somebody. But, I remember when I was sitting on 
the bench thinking, "I bet, they're gonna air *this* shot while 
they're *nailing* me with something negative." And I'll be darned 
if they didn't do it! (laughs)

Chuck: You were right. You were right.

Debra: Cause it was perfect. yeah, I don't know. What I was 
interested in asking you to following up on, um, you said that,  
the uh, . . . what's this Dr. Montes(sp?) I think? Was that who 
this Monday interview was supposed to be with?

Chuck: Well, the name I heard was Dr. Stan. Now I don't know, 
maybe his last name is Montes or something, I don't know.

Debra: Oh, okay.

Chuck: But it was , uh  . . .

Debra: But, did you hear it on the broadcast or you saw something 
that I was scheduled?

Chuck: No actually my wife heard it that on Friday or Thursday 
before the Monday that you were supposed to come on, and so I was 
driving at the time and I told her to put it on the recorder, and 
so, in fact I have the recording of what he said, at least the 
first 15 minutes worth or something like that. So . .

Debra: Interesting. So did he say that I was a no-show on his 
show or something?

Chuck: He said that he decided not to have you on because he felt 
that you were spreading dis-information and that it's just like 
all these people coming out with who shot Kennedy and he just 
went on and on. It was very suspect.  It just . . .

Debra: Yeah, he called me and was very adamant, he had called me 
twice, adamant about wanting to schedule me. I told him, "Fine, I 
keep my appointments."  I was there and he just plain didn't call 
me back, I never heard from him again. So, I didn't know what 
went on. But I'm surprised that . . uh . .  he felt comfortable 
just . .  uh . .  instead  putting . . uh  . . you know . . 
airing some attack on me.

Chuck: So, do you still have connections with the people that you 
dealt with originally as far as the stuff you did for the 
Executive Office, I mean are you still in that line of business,  
. . . or  . . in other words, the question that would follow that 
would be,  do you still think the White House is still 
compromised as far as its communications go?

Debra: No,  I think what happened was um, just as I have said in 
previous interviews, by September, by the end of September when 
Mondale's office finally took me seriously,  about the fact that 
the office was compromised , and that the trade talks were 
compromised, as a result of it, and uh, and that uh, all that 
went out of the media,(meaning kept out of the media) and then, 
um, Allen Witchar(sp?) was sent back from the White House to 
Oklahoma City, and concurrent with that, the Secret Service 
without having I guess Leon Paneta or Clinton's staff 
*acknowledge* to the Secret Service that they already knew the 
source of the bugging operation. The Secret Service was 
independently conducting their own investigation, and in fact had 
in California contacted Scott Barnes who was a name that , er, 
that was a name that was familiar to people who followed the 
Perot petition committee scandal over the bugging *there* because 
Scott Barnes was in fact paid by the Republican National 
Committee to bug the Perot petition committee.

Chuck: Oh, I see.

Debra: At the same time that Goetzman(Robert - sp?) and Gary 
Thomlinson and I were also inside the Perot petition committee 
and Thomlinson and Goetzman were bugging it independently on 
behalf of the FBI.

Chuck: Oh, and they weren't aware of each one doing the same thing.

Debra:  Right, and they weren't aware of Scott Barnes doing it on 
behalf of the Republican National Committee  . .  .

Chuck: Oh, I see  . . .

Debra: And then concurrently,  Perot had hired Scott Barnes 
intentionally, to bug his own equipment, to spy on the 
volunteers. So we had sort of a bugging operation in triplicate 
going on, which, you know, it's almost like a Keystone Cop 
operation., when you think about it. It was really funny, in the 
aftermath that everyone was bugging everyone else, and all three 
operations weren't aware of each other., um, until much later. 
But what happened was, I was on a talk show discussing that 
bugging operation and the fact that right up through September 
the White House hadn't even accepted the fact that that was 
happening and then immediately in October it was acknowledged and 
it was swept and  . . the . .  as far as I knew, everything was 
discovered at that point, based on the information that I had 
given. And Scott Barnes would happen to just walk in literally, 
like walk into his house, hit the end of the show, and called. 
And I ended up on a phone call with him, after the show went off, 
we had a three way call between the host, myself and Scott 
Barnes, and we discussed at length for about 45 minutes what went 
on at the Secret Service, because they came out and accused *him* 
of  perhaps bugging the White House. And he said that the reason 
they did was because one of the taped conversations between 
Sylvia Paneta, who is Leon's wife, and Scott Barnes who had 
happened to call into Leon's office, and as *I* had been doing. 
He had called in, had been a conversation with Sylvia Paneta, and 
the tape literally had gotten loose somewhere in Washington and 
was being duplicated, people were listening to it. The Secret 
Service found it . . . somehow . . . gotten possession of it, 
came out to California  . . .

[tape runs out]

Sorry about that! I have done a subsequent interview with Debra 
and I will transcribe that also (time allowing) ASAP.

- Chuck

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Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt.
Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et 
  pauperem.                    -- Liber Proverbiorum  XXXI: 8-9 

 Brian Francis Redman    bigxc@prairienet.org    "The Big C"
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    Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"        
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