From server@prairienet.org Tue Jun 27 03:21:01 1995
	id DAA28993; Tue, 27 Jun 1995 03:20:13 +0200
	id AA11751; Mon, 26 Jun 95 20:19:23 CDT
Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 5 Num. 32
X-Comment:  Conspiracy Nation



              Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 5  Num. 32
             ======================================
                    ("Quid coniuratio est?")


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PAULA ZAHN INTERVIEWS STEPHEN JONES
Paula Zahn interviewed Stephen Jones, attorney for accused 
Oklahoma City bombing suspect Timothy McVeigh, on *CBS This 
Morning*, June 26, 1995. The following is my transcription of the 
interview.


PAULA ZAHN:
Timothy McVeigh has spoken for the first time about the charges 
against him in the Oklahoma City bombing. Among other things, he 
told *Newsweek* magazine he will *not* plead guilty, and that the 
first *he* heard of the bombing was when he was arrested on a 
traffic charge.

Also, we are seeing a new image of McVeigh. His defense team has 
provided a new videotape of a relaxed McVeigh, chatting with his 
attorneys.

Stephen Jones is one of his attorneys. He joins us this morning 
from Enid, Oklahoma.

Thank you very much for being with us this morning.


STEPHEN JONES:
Thank *you*, Paula.


PAULA ZAHN:
Let's talk about this interview with Newsweek for the moment. 
When Timothy McVeigh was asked if he bombed the Murrah Federal 
Building, this is what he had to say (he did *not* flatly deny 
it): "The only way we can answer that is, we are going to plead 
'not guilty.'"

If your client didn't do it, why didn't he say so in this 
interview?


STEPHEN JONES:
Because under the local rules of the western judicial district 
here in Oklahoma, a defendant and his lawyer have certain limits 
as to what they can say once the case is filed in court. He can 
say how he will plead, and in this particular case he will plead 
"not guilty". To go *beyond* that is to risk violation of the 
local rules and a citation for contempt. And he simply cannot 
*do* that, under the circumstances.


PAULA ZAHN:
As you know, a number of legal analysts out there are questioning 
why you allowed your client to do this interview in the first 
place. What *was* your motivation?


STEPHEN JONES:
Well, the client *wanted* to do it. Dave Hackworth(sp?) wrote 
him, and said he'd like to interview him, soldier-to-soldier. 
Colonel Hackworth's reputation is *well*-known among enlisted men 
and NCOs [Non-Commissioned Officers], and my client said, "I want 
to *talk* to the man."

So we arranged for the interview on that basis, and we laid down 
certain ground rules that were acceptable to *Newsweek*, and we 
went forward.


PAULA ZAHN:
Let's move on to another question that was asked of him. It was 
reported that, when he was arrested, he only gave his name, rank, 
a serial number -- and in this *Newsweek* interview he said, "I 
never called myself a 'prisoner of war.'" He also denied being a 
member of the Michigan Militia, and said that he never attended 
their meetings.

Let's go back to the "prisoner of war" comments: are there any 
transcripts, that you have seen, that document that in any way at 
all?


STEPHEN JONES:
No, I've not seen any transcripts. Of course, the trooper who 
arrested him testified at the preliminary hearing. And I think 
that it's beyond question that he and Mr. McVeigh had a normal 
conversation after he was arrested and he was taken down to the 
courthouse in Perry. Mr. McVeigh made two court appearances and 
answered the questions of the judge. So the idea that he said 
nothing but "name, rank, and serial number" is disputed by 
probably 20 or 25 people who witnessed some, if not all, of these 
proceedings.


PAULA ZAHN:
As you know, one thing that your client said that *is* being 
disputed is that he never participated in Michigan Militia 
members [sic]. There have been a number of members who have come 
forward that said that they, in fact, *saw* Timothy McVeigh at 
one of their meetings; in fact, he was interested in, in the 
potential bombing of another target. What do you make of those 
reports and those comments?


STEPHEN JONES:
Well I understand those reports... Mr. McVeigh has said that he 
was *not* a member of the Michigan Militia and he did not attend 
any of their meetings. Now there are apparently a large number of 
militia members in Michigan: I hear numbers as high as 15,000. 
It's certainly possible that he, and any number of other 
citizens, may have been at places where there were members of the 
Michigan Militia. But until proven contrary, we'll have to take 
his word. And even if he *did* attend the meetings, there's no 
indication whatsoever that there's *any* relationship between the 
Michigan Militia and what happened in Oklahoma City -- none 
whatsoever.


PAULA ZAHN:
In closing this morning, in this interview, Mr. McVeigh admitted 
that he is concerned about the death penalty. Can you see 
yourself ever accepting any kind of government bargain, that 
would escape the death penalty for your client?


STEPHEN JONES:
Well I don't want to rule out anything, but the government has 
made *no* overture to my client nor have I made any overture to 
the government. At the present time, the matter will go to trial.


PAULA ZAHN:
Stephen Jones.

Thank you for your time this morning.


STEPHEN JONES:
Thank *you*, Paula.


PAULA ZAHN:
I appreciate your joining us.

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Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt.
Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et 
  pauperem.                    -- Liber Proverbiorum  XXXI: 8-9 

 Brian Francis Redman    bigxc@prairienet.org    "The Big C"
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    Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"        
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