From server@firefly.prairienet.org Mon May 22 14:11:54 1995
	id OAA22394; Mon, 22 May 1995 14:11:33 +0200
	id AA03244; Mon, 22 May 95 07:04:09 CDT
Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 4 Num. 94
X-Comment:  Conspiracy Nation



              Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 4  Num. 94
             ======================================
                    ("Quid coniuratio est?")


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INTERVIEW WITH SHERMAN SKOLNICK -- MAY 17, 1995

On May 17, 1995, I interviewed, by telephone, Mr. Sherman 
Skolnick of the Citizens' Committee to Clean-up the Courts 
[CCCC]. The following is my summary of that interview.

I neither necessarily agree nor disagree with either all or 
portions of the following. I invite any persons directly involved 
to send any rebuttals to bigxc@prairienet.org -- I am willing to 
distribute said rebuttals, provided they are of reasonable 
length.

 +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +

[...continued...]

SHERMAN SKOLNICK [continues]:
But the point is, as I said earlier, the thing that is bothering 
the Establishment, the ultra rich, the most is this monster that 
they let out of the bottle: Internet. Their idea was to globalize 
communications with Internet. But this genie, this monster, is 
out of the bottle -- and *now* they don't know how to put it 
back! [laughs]

Because there are some clever people out there says, "Hey! Forget 
about the news fakers in New York. Notice what this one says, and 
notice what that one says." I mean like, in my position: until 
the last 5 years, when they saw me on television, people would 
run into me downtown and says, "Skolnick, I thought you were 
either dead or retired. I haven't seen you."

With many of those people downtown, you're in a 17th century 
technology. If they don't see you once in a while, in the 
evening, on the television, you're dead or retired or have fled 
the country. And that's where cable access comes in; that's where 
Internet comes in: they gotta see your name. And another thing: 
they gotta see you on the computer screen. If they can't press up 
nothin' on that machine and make *your* story come up on the 
computer screen -- you're dead, you're retired, you left the 
country. [laughs] They've gotta *see* you there! That's the 
latest technology.


CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah.

One other thing: you mentioned... Okay, you live at 9800 S. 
Oglesby. And from what you say, that's a black neighborhood now.


SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I'm not saying that from a negative standpoint. I'm here since 
the neighborhood was here. The neighborhood got started in 1948 
and '50, and my folks bought the house and here I am! I don't 
wish to run to the lily-white suburbs: number one, I don't have 
the money, and number two, it's too far from the center of 
downtown and the cultural center. The cultural center in Chicago 
is not in the northwest suburbs -- that's a desert. The cultural 
center is the University of Chicago, which is only a few minutes 
from me. And so, if there's something important at the U of C, 
and I tell somebody that lives in Mount Prospect [i.e., a 
northwest suburb] -- My God! I mean, they gotta travel 
considerable time and distance to get to it. Whereas by me, it's 
only a few minutes away!


CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah. See, my mom grew up on the south side of Chicago, around 
79th and Throop st., by St. Sabina's parish down there...


SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Yeah.


CONSPIRACY NATION:
...and I know, somewhat, of the way things usually go: is that, 
there would be, the blacks would move into the neighborhood, 
tensions would arise, and the whites would leave. And it's just 
unusual for somebody to just stay in the neighborhood like that.

What's it like for you? You're probably -- what? -- the only 
white guy livin' in the neighborhood?


SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Uh, no. There's about two or three others in there. I get along 
with everybody! What difference would it make? I mean there's, 
some of my own religion would like to take a rope and hang me. 
It's...

You know, I point out things that are hard. We're working on a 
story that, for 3 years now we can't quite get it together the 
way we like it. And that is, that the federal judges, who are 
supposed to promote human rights, generally do not allow black 
and Hispanic lawyers to make a living in the federal courthouse 
in Chicago. So it's the same as putting up a sign in Alabama 50 
years ago, that blacks should drink from this other fountain. So 
I finally got one black, prominent lawyer to talk to me off-the- 
record. And so far, he's agreed to go on our show. And he says, 
"Yeah, you're right, Skolnick! These judges over there 
discriminate against black lawyers. They... It's as if they put 
a sign up and says 'Black lawyers not wanted.'" And you know the 
one they *really* don't want are blacks that are not Christians, 
that are Muslims. It's like they got a sign up there, but it's an 
invisible sign, that's saying "Blacks and Black Muslim lawyers: 
Do *not* practice here, because you will not be allowed to make a 
living. Go practice in the traffic court and the bus accident 
claims in the state court. Don't come into the federal court."

And *I*, I've got at least one prominent, black lawyer who says 
he *will* go on our show and *say* that, for all the world to 
hear.

And that's, that runs contrary to the accepted wisdom that the 
federal court is the great supporter of human rights. Not in 
Chicago they're not.


CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah.

Did you succeed in getting Debra von Trapp to be on your show at 
all?


SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
She's an interesting character. What has happened as a result of 
your serializing the lengthy interview I did with her on tape, is 
that all of those that were in with her circle are trying to 
either threaten me, or sweet talk me [laughs]. I mean, I don't 
know who all these people are that suddenly are calling me up and 
they want to talk an hour or two and persuade me that *yes*, the 
Clinton White House was spied on, but *no*, they didn't do it, it 
was this *other* guy that did it! [laughs]


CONSPIRACY NATION:
[laughs]


SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I mean, I talked already with Robert Goetzman and some of the 
others. *I* had to find him. But some of the others have found 
me, and they call me, and they're tryin' to sweet talk me: "Oh 
yes, there *was* spying in the District of Columbia. Oh yes. But 
I only know about it; *I* didn't go along with it." That's what 
they tell me! [laughs]


CONSPIRACY NATION:
[laughs]


SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I listen. I consider myself a fair-minded journalist.

But the one benefit the Debra von Trapp story has done is to draw 
all these strange, "spooky" types out of the woodwork! [laughs]


CONSPIRACY NATION:
[laughs]


SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I think some of 'em are runnin' after you too, a little bit.


CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah! I... You know, like I say, I got that e-mail from uh, Wes 
Thomas I think his name is. And, you know, I always have a 
disclaimer that I put in front of my postings, that I neither 
necessarily agree nor disagree. You know, I just...


SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
He claims he's not with the CIA, as Debra says. But I tell ya 
somethin': there's a *lot* to support the contrary. He's a *top* 
*notcher*. He is far too clever. And, in fact, it'd probably be 
an insult to say he's with the CIA. I mean, he probably 
*supervises* the CIA!

Wes Thomas is awfully clever. But he's *very* personable. He 
called me up the other night and spoke to me for an hour like it 
was some uncle that I had forgotten about! [laughs]


CONSPIRACY NATION:
[laughs]


SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
He was very friendly, this guy. I mean, where did I run into him? 
At a luncheon or something? That he calls me up and he's so sweet 
and nice and so on.

He says that Goetzman *did* solicit him to spy on all the foreign 
embassies in Washington, but that he didn't go along with it. But 
the plan was, according to Wes Thomas, the plan was that Goetzman 
was gonna supply used computers, with transponders secretly built 
into them, and that Wes Thomas was gonna give these away to all 
the foreign embassies. And that way, the team (the secret team) 
could then spy on 'em.

But Wes would have me believe that he didn't go along with it. 
Well, I don't know. All I know is, your serializing the story on 
Internet, the interview of Debra, has brought all of these -- I 
don't know *what* to call 'em! -- secret team *disclaiming* 
they're a secret team -- has brought 'em all out into the open, 
to call and sweet talk me. And a few, of course, have also 
*threatened* me! [laughs] I mean, you know...


CONSPIRACY NATION:
How did they threaten you?


SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well Goetzman says he's gonna get me by, by sending a subpoena 
after me! [laughs] You know...

                   [...to be continued...]

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Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt.
Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et 
  pauperem.                    -- Liber Proverbiorum  XXXI: 8-9 

 Brian Francis Redman    bigxc@prairienet.org    "The Big C"
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    Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"        
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