From server@firefly.prairienet.org Fri May 12 02:09:42 1995
	id CAA03475; Fri, 12 May 1995 02:09:37 +0200
	id AA03345; Thu, 11 May 95 19:04:48 CDT
Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 4 Num. 88
X-Comment:  Conspiracy Nation


              Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 4  Num. 88
             ======================================
                    ("Quid coniuratio est?")
 
 
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INTERVIEW WITH DEBRA VON TRAPP
By Sherman H. Skolnick
(Transcribed by Brian Francis Redman)
 
I neither necessarily agree nor disagree with either all or 
portions of the following. -- CN Editor.
 
 +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +
 
[...continued...]
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: {1}
I see. But the point is... Is it your opinion that the citizens' 
militias, that the President and others accuse, may not be 
involved in this at all?
 
 
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
They had nothing to do with it. And I can tell you that from 
first-hand knowledge. They had absolutely nothing to do with 
that.
 
And in fact... Once they (because they know -- and the FBI *knew* 
who took that building down, and understood that they had to 
create a cover story), they panicked. And because they didn't 
know *where* the target was going to be -- they knew it was going 
to happen, as I did. But once it *did* happen, and they 
understood who the responsible parties were, their cover story... 
They attempted to make up this story about this Ryder truck and 
the look-alike bombing to New York City [World Trade Center 
bombing], to pin it on the Middle East. But nothing they could 
feed the American public or the media would add up to that.
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well I noticed that Israel immediately sent in one of their 
assets, who's with CBS network, Dan Raviv. He co-authored a book 
praising Mossad. And he, suddenly, was broadcasting *for* CBS 
from Oklahoma City, after the bombing. He's a Mideast expert. I 
found it very odd that he suddenly was sent in there. He's sort 
of an asset of Israeli Intelligence.
 
 
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Yeah.
 
And that just didn't, it didn't gel. They couldn't do much with 
it, after about 48 hours.
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
So in other words, your opinion is, from your work and how you 
got involved in espionage by way of -- because they intimidated 
you -- that...
 
 
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
I didn't get paid for any of those White House deliveries or, you 
know. I mean, I watched them do it!
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
In other words, you were coerced into it because of the details 
that you've given me here.
 
 
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
I contracted the deliveries. That's what I did for them.
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
So the point is, you think that the higher-ups -- Janet Reno, the 
President himself, and so on -- have a good, working knowledge of 
what is behind the bombing and are not telling the American 
people.
 
 
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
They knew *exactly* what had happened. And what they did, with 
McVeigh, is -- the Middle East story wasn't going to work. So, 
someone pointed out that they had this guy in custody and...
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
He's sort of a "patsy", Lee Harvey Oswald style.
 
 
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Basically, what happened is, they decided to put out just a 
sketch of him. And you've noticed, they haven't produced any tape 
or anything else for the American public -- can't come up with 
the John Doe #2. {2}.
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I've interviewed explosives experts. And they laugh at the 
government's explanation of a fertilizer bomb doing that piece of 
work.
 
 
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
There's no possibility of that at all. First of all, I can tell 
you from first-hand knowledge that Special Ops team did that 
bombing, and did a different kind of bomb altogether. Secondly, 
anyone with even a cursory knowledge of bombing, you know, and 
not too sophisticated of a knowledge at all, will understand that 
their description of that bomb does not mesh with the action of 
that bomb.
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Right. We spent about 4-and-a-half months, in 1992, interviewing 
Michael Riconosciuto, a computer and explosives expert, when he 
was in the jail in Chicago awaiting grand jury testimony. And he 
described to us EHT, "Blue Death", which some other explosives 
experts are now describing as more likely, from the 
circumstances, was the device used to take down the Murrah 
Building.
 
Tell me this: you feel the highest level of our government knows 
about this. What do you think is gonna be the outcome? In other 
words, your opinion is that, as part of this problem between the 
Washington and the Tokyo governments, that our espionage people 
instigated those poison gas attacks in Japan?
 
 
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
My specific knowledge is that a military team produced that gas 
attack in retaliation for compromise of White House 
communications, which is a military responsibility and was 
compromised by the Secret Service agent and Robert Goetzman and 
the CIA employee, Dale Helm, who is still at the White House as 
we speak.
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Where is Goetzman these days? Does anybody know?
 
 
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Yeah. I actually have his home address in _______, _______. Would 
you like it?
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Yes.
 
 
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Okay. Because I think the American public ought to go visit him, 
knock on his door and ask him if he thinks it's okay to kill 
babies in Oklahoma City.
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
What is his address?
 
 
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
{3}.
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
You happen to have a phone number for him?
 
 
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
I did. But he disconnected it.
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Yeah, I understand.
 
 
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
I *do* have a phone number for Jim Cofield...
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well... Yeah. Give it to us. We'll utilize it in some way, in an 
interview or something.
 
 
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
{4}.
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Let's see if we can summarize this: Because of your background in 
very high technology, you got involved in certain projects. You 
were intimidated into it. And part of those projects were the 
"bugging" of the Clinton White House. In fact, going all the way 
back to the inaugural get-togethers.
 
 
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
I still have the televisions! The inaugural committee... 
Mitsubishi and Goetzman abandoned the TVs on the sidewalk at the 
Lincoln Memorial. It rained on them. A truck backed into them. 
The inaugural committee called me and demanded that I remove the 
debris. So I agreed to take responsibility for it. And they 
shipped them over to the Washington Naval Shipyard, and then put 
'em on a United Van Lines truck (which is the official carrier 
for the President). And, at their expense, trucked them back to 
me in Irvine, California, and dumped them in my driveway!
 
                   [...to be continued...]
 
---------------------------<< Notes >>---------------------------
{1} Skolnick stops the tape to interject at this point:
   "I would like to insert here, I believe that base is Gunther 
Air Force Base in Alabama."
 
{2} Skolnick stops the tape to interject at this point:
   "Let me insert something here: there is a television station 
manager in Oklahoma (let's see if I have his name here) who 
contends that he has got video tape, proving -- this is KPOC TV, 
Ponca, Oklahoma. His name is David Hall, and he's the television 
station manager. (405) 767-8827. And others that have talked to 
him, that I know about... David Hall contends that they've got 
video tape and other proof, from his television station, that 
Timothy McVeigh was *not*, as the government contends, arrested 
on a traffic violation an hour-and-a-half after the Oklahoma City 
bombing, but in fact was arrested for the first time on Friday, 
April 21st, '95. If David Hall's, what he contends, that he's got 
some proof -- video tape -- is correct, then the whole Timothy 
McVeigh story would fall apart."
   "I have no personal knowledge of it, but it would not surprise 
me that the whole McVeigh thing is a fraudulent story by Janet 
Reno and the President, because they *do* know the truth, as Ms. 
von Trapp is setting it forth."
   "And there's something about Ms. von Trapp's story that leads 
me to think that it is quite correct! It rings true."
 
{3} Regarding Goetzman's address: bearing in mind that, in this 
country, a person is innocent until proven guilty (something 
which many supposedly "professional" journalists have shockingly 
forgotten vis a vis Timothy McVeigh), I will provide the address 
to responsible journalists and investigators wishing to make 
polite inquiries.
   Worth mentioning also, regarding the press: President Clinton 
has asked that you "call up short" the "purveyors of paranoia". 
Well? Where are you on this von Trapp testimony? *Your* *silence* 
*is* *deafening*. When will the mainstream press be following up 
on this story? Soon, I hope. After all, you don't want any 
"fragile minds" beginning to think that what von Trapp is saying 
could be true!
   Hey media!! Where are you guys!? When will we see you 
following up on this story?
 
{4} Regarding Cofield's phone number: I will provide same to 
responsible journalists and investigators wishing to make polite 
inquiries.
 
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Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt.
Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et 
  pauperem.                    -- Liber Proverbiorum  XXXI: 8-9 

 Brian Francis Redman    bigxc@prairienet.org    "The Big C"
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    Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"        
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