From server@firefly.prairienet.org Wed May  3 14:37:52 1995
	id OAA10606; Wed, 3 May 1995 14:37:24 +0200
	id AA18014; Wed, 3 May 95 07:25:53 CDT
Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 4 Num. 78
X-Comment:  Conspiracy Nation


              Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 4  Num. 78
             ======================================
                    ("Quid coniuratio est?")
 
 
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INTERVIEW WITH SHERMAN SKOLNICK -- MAY 1, 1995
 
On May 1, 1995, I interviewed, by telephone, Mr. Sherman 
Skolnick of the Citizens' Committee to Clean-up the Courts 
[CCCC]. The following is my summary of that interview. (Note that 
in the following, I neither necessarily agree nor disagree with 
either all or some of Mr. Skolnick's statements.)
 
 +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +
 
[...continued...]
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Okay. Here's something else. We did a story... I think we were 
about the first in the country to do a story about Systematics (a 
unit of ALLTEL), and that Systematics was involved in spying on 
central banks of other countries, using a low-orbit satellite and 
INSLAW software, with the "trap door". Do you know what has 
happened to that story? Reporters have confronted the foreign 
affairs spokesperson for the National Security Council [NSC] 
(which is connected with the White House). And the reporters were 
told, in respect to Systematics, that it is not unlawful for an 
American company to spy overseas.
 
When the reporters went one step further, and says, "Well, what 
if they try to bring that information, that they obtained by 
spying, back into the United States," the spokesperson for the 
NSC said, "Well... That's a legal question. But it is not 
unlawful to spy overseas."
 
So you see: our story about Systematics is "100 percent". In 
other words, the National Security Council's spokesperson does 
not deny it, that there has been this spying going on. Because 
central banks of other countries are very angry at the United 
States. And it might be *one* of several reasons why there's an 
attack on the dollar in respect to the yen, the deutschmark, and 
the Swiss franc; that might be *one* of the reasons.
 
 
CONSPIRACY NATION:
A lot of people are interested in finding out about this Oklahoma 
City bombing. What's your information now? Do you suspect the ATF 
now?
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well I suspect the ATF of complicity. *And*, I saw the story, 
faxed around by the head of the Michigan Militia [Olson], about 
that they believe that there's a connection between the poison 
gas attacks in the Japanese subway and this bombing. Now some 
people would reject it and say, "Now wait a minute. That's 'way 
out'." It is true that others in the militia there told him 
[Olson] to resign. However: the story has a certain ring of truth 
to it. I'm not going with it as a story, I'm only commenting on a 
story that was circulated around. I think it has a certain amount 
of validity to it. And I am gonna see just what pieces of other 
information tend to support this, well, call it a "theory".
 
Because you see, there's a number of strange events that, in 
later times, may end up in some history book as being related 
events: McNamara's book comes out (which has been in the works 
for a year). It comes out a few weeks before the Oklahoma 
bombing, in so many words saying that Americans were lied to 
about the Vietnam War and that McNamara could have played a role 
in bringing the truth out, which might have saved... At the time, 
he *knew* that the Vietnam War was a fraud. There had already 
been 16,000 casualties, dead. Which means, from that point 
forward they could've saved 40,000 Americans! I mean, if total 
casualties were about 56,000 dead. So he could've saved over 
40,000! So a lot of ex-GIs are really "up the wall" about the 
whole situation. And I've heard that there's a lot of ex-GIs are 
now joining the militia as a result of the bombing! Never mind 
that the President says that there's a vast conspiracy against 
the White House. I think that there's been a backlash and a lot 
of people say that they're...
 
Because the militia people have been allowed to say on the 
television things that were known, but never *on* the major 
television: that there are secret societies meeting (like the 
Trilateral Commission); that perhaps the government has bombed 
their own building, in order to have an excuse for martial law; 
that there are large numbers of foreign troops in the United 
States, and so on -- things that the mass media has avoided ever 
mentioning. But because the militia's been attacked, this is the 
way that they retaliate. And I think that many of the things that 
the militia says -- their spokespeople -- are correct!! Which is, 
some of the rest of us know about. And *how* is the media gonna 
deal with this?
 
 
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Like you said: it seems like they're back-tracking; that they're 
trying to go back to the O.J. Simpson routine, again, where 
"What's the latest on the O.J. Simpson trial."
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well, 'cuz the O.J. Simpson thing is, has more or less been 
"blanked out".
 
Because from the details that are coming out about the, having 
Timothy McVeigh, as a defendant, charged with some role in the 
bombing -- *that* seems to be in error. McVeigh's latest lawyer 
has said that the FBI's got the wrong man. And that may well be 
true!
 
 
CONSPIRACY NATION:
I noticed that too. And I wanted to make a short note of that, is 
that, strictly speaking, McVeigh has not been found guilty in a 
court of law. But he's being talked about on numerous TV and 
radio shows as if he's guilty! But you know, strictly speaking, 
he has not been found guilty.
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well here's the way that it appears: according to published 
reports, McVeigh was a security guard of sorts for Mark Koernke. 
Koernke is suspected by others in the Michigan Militia of being a 
government plant. Because Koernke has high-level intelligence 
connections; he went to one of the *top* secret military 
intelligence schools -- I believe in Arizona. And yes, he is 
charming and he says a few things that are interesting. But he... 
There's something about him that indicates that he may be a 
provocateur! So the fact that Timothy McVeigh worked in some 
capacity *for* him, and is now accused of some role in the 
bombing -- I find the whole chain of circumstances *very* 
*suspect*. In other words, did someone like Koernke tell McVeigh, 
"Go and spy out the building," (you know), "'Case' the building" 
-- and not tell him *why*? And then other people [that] are now 
becoming witnesses for the FBI says, "Oh yes! We saw McVeigh, 
three days before the bombing, looking at the building!"
 
Well McVeigh -- if that is true -- McVeigh may not have even 
known what he was doing there, any more than maybe Oswald didn't 
know what *he* was doing in Dealey Plaza. I mean, in other words, 
a "patsy".
 
 
CONSPIRACY NATION:
And the other thing is that McVeigh has got, really, a *tenuous* 
connection to the Michigan Militia, in that he had tried to join 
-- but they expelled him! Okay? And the thing is, that you get 
this bombing. And right *with* the bombing, juxtaposed with the 
bombing, you get story after story about the militias! {4}. And 
to me, you know it's like you had said about how the television 
kind of gets beyond your thought, and it goes underneath your 
thought...
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Subconscious. Right. And what is never discussed, except -- I 
think we're about the only ones in the country that discuss it. 
(Because I've been on the periphery of broadcasting for over 30 
years.) And that is, the broadcast industry -- radio and TV -- 
are subject to emergency proclamations -- unpublicized -- by the 
White House. And that started during the anti-Vietnam and anti... 
the civil rights marches and commotions that occurred in the 
'60s, the murder of Dr. King. Because after the murder of Dr. 
King, 103 cities were burning. So if Dr. King was assassinated 
*today*, they would quietly announce tonight that he died in the 
hospital of "natural causes". You see?
 
In other words, the radio and TV stations are under the thumb of 
the White House! And that is happening now. People that I know in 
broadcasting confirm it, but they'll be darned if they'll go on 
the air and ever say it, because they fear their license will be 
in jeopardy.
 
So the media, now, is so *slanted*! In other words, Clinton gave 
an emergency order that the media is to support the White House 
policy that may be necessary to round up the militia as part of a 
"broad conspiracy to overthrow the government". And they need the 
help of the media to soften up the public that "It's okay to 
round up these people."
 
So I'm about the only one, that understands broadcasting, that 
talks about it. None of the others in broadcasting would *dare* 
say a single word about the White House emergency pronouncement 
that's in effect right now, since the bombing. They just won't 
discuss it!
 
                   [...to be continued...]
 
---------------------------<< Notes >>---------------------------
{4} "...juxtaposed with the bombing, you get story after story 
about the militias..." Going back to what we all learned in 
Psychology 101, i.e., Pavlovian response conditioning, we can see 
how the unthinking public has been conditioned to associate the 
militia movement with the Oklahoma bombing. Just as Pavlov 
conditioned dogs to salivate at the sound of a bell by forming an 
immediate association between the bell and food, so too the 
unthinking public has been conditioned to associate the militia 
movement with the Oklahoma bombing, again through repetitive 
association between the bombing and the militias. In point of 
fact, as noted, any actual connection is tenuous.
   But *why* has the media conditioned the unthinking public to 
associate the militia movement with the Oklahoma City bombing? 
Has the unthinking public been psychologically softened up so as 
to be willing to accept future government actions against these 
militias? Stay tuned.
 
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Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt.
Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et 
  pauperem.                    -- Liber Proverbiorum  XXXI: 8-9 

 Brian Francis Redman    bigxc@prairienet.org    "The Big C"
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    Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"        
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