	id AA18735; Sun, 11 Dec 94 20:55:41 CST
Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 3 Num. 19


              Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 3  Num. 19
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                    ("Quid coniuratio est?")
 
 
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CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE DEATH OF COLONEL JIMMY SABO
 
Tom Valentine's guest on *Radio Free America* (Shortwave, 5.065 
MHz, mon-fri, 9 pm cst) on November 14, 1994 was private 
investigator Gene Wheaton. Mr. Wheaton has been looking into the 
suspicious death of the late Colonel Jimmy Sabo. Following is my 
transcription of that interview.
 
 +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +
 
[...continued...]
 
TOM VALENTINE:
Well I understand that.
 
Now, when you began investigating the Iran-Contra affair, then 
you ran into Ollie North right off the bat.
 
 
GENE WHEATON:
That's right. In the actual beginning, '85, you know I didn't 
have any objection to covert operations, as long as they were in 
the interest of national security and were legal and 
congressionally approved and conformed to the Constitution. But 
within several months, the folks I mentioned who asked me to help 
'em started feeding me information about renegade operations, 
about the theft of billions of dollars worth of taxpayer paid-for 
weapons out of U.S. military stockpiles and NATO stockpiles being 
sold, and the money being stashed in off-shore bank accounts: the 
weapons going to both our friends and our enemies, just to keep 
turmoil going in the world; and laundered drug money being used 
for covert operations.
 
In the beginning, I thought the contractor pilots were cheating 
on the National Security Council and Ollie North's people, and I 
briefed CIA director Bill Casey and Ollie North's staff and the 
Pentagon people, in early '86.
 
 
VALENTINE:
I'll bet they were really surprised that somebody was tellin' 'em 
what they were doin'!
 
 
WHEATON:
Yeah! [laughs] I was a little naive. They said, "Oh, really?" And 
then they all denied being involved. And thinking that I was only 
one guy out there, they told me if I thought I could expose it, 
to go ahead. So [they] sorta "threw down the gauntlet". But it 
wasn't just me. It was a large group of patriotic people that 
were helping me, and we...
 
 
VALENTINE:
A lot of those folks ended up in jail, did they not?
 
 
WHEATON:
Well... The wrong, not many of the *right* people ended up in 
jail! There was...
 
 
VALENTINE:
Well I thought some of these guys who blew the whistle and ended 
up in jail were pretty much on the right side.
 
 
WHEATON:
There were some people who ended up dead; some ended up in jail. 
But the ones who *should* have been in jail are the ones walkin' 
free today. [CN -- i.e., many of Wheaton's informants, the 
"whistleblowers", were either murdered or imprisoned. But the 
actual guilty parties avoided justice.]
 
 
VALENTINE:
Isn't that how it works.
 
No, I was thinking of... There was a fellow, named Martin, who 
called me from jail in the south side. There's a Customs agent 
named "Ayers(sp?)" who went to jail trying to put the figure of 
the drug operations and the drugs and guns operations of the 
Iran-Contra...
 
 
WHEATON:
He was a former special forces officer who was working under the 
south Florida "task force" of narcotics. That's Brad Ayers.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yes! Brad Ayers, yeah!
 
 
WHEATON:
His credibility was destroyed by disinformation, much like they 
tried to do mine. The only thing [that] saved me is my strong 
family background, my friends, and my military and police 
reputation. But Brad really had a rough time, and is *still* 
having a rough time.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yes. In fact, I've known about Brad for many years, and we were 
neighbors up in St. Paul, Minnesota. And I will be... I've never 
brought him on as a guest! One of these days I may let him tell 
his whole story. It's a hair-raiser.
 
 
WHEATON:
It certainly is. He's got a major, major... He had to fight 
through the legal system in a lawsuit to try to obtain records 
out of the CIA and Customs and U.S. Marshalls Office about bad 
stories that were spread about him. He's got the documentation 
now. I think he's taking some legal action.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yes, he's tryin'. That's why I'm sayin' I'd like to get him back 
on the show.
 
Now we had a character that came on this show; his wife came on 
this show many times. He is said to be still in prison, over in 
Austria, but *I* believe he's sittin' there, countin' his money 
-- and that is Gunther Russbacher(sp?).
 
 
WHEATON:
Yes... I've avoided getting involved in that thing because I know 
very little about him. Plus, I don't... The problem with Gunther 
Russbacher that I see -- he's called me 2 or 3 times, while he 
was in jail, but I've never met him...
 
 
VALENTINE:
Uh-huh [understands].
 
 
WHEATON:
...and I would try to pin him down on things. But like a *lot* of 
guys involved in the covert operations community, these guys, as 
part of their trade, are pathological liars, and they will 
intermix the truth with fiction. When the truth would help 'em, 
they will still tell you a lie. And he had so many conflicting 
stories that he was saying to me that I couldn't determine 
whether he was real or a phony. So I...
 
 
VALENTINE:
It drove ya nuts, didn't it!?
 
Yeah, he even... Uh, Ross Perot tried to get some facts out of 
him and couldn't do it.
 
 
WHEATON:
I understand that. Yes.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yeah. O.K. Now. I'm gonna ask your opinion on one of 'em. I 
believe that Inslaw, [the] theft of that software, is one of the 
biggest crimes in the history of American government. Right up 
there... Iran-Contra are all part of it. And I'm just wondering 
if you've had any, run across anything of that Inslaw case.
 
 
WHEATON:
Well, I have. Early on, Bill Hamilton contacted me. And I've had 
several meetings with him, back in Washington, and gave him a 
little advice. It's a very convoluted thing, but it was one of 
the biggest rip-offs by the U.S. Justice Department and the 
intelligence community [that] I have ever seen in my life. Every 
time a judge ruled in his favor, that judge lost his job.
 
I know the people who actually sold his software overseas. And 
I've given that information to him (I don't want to discuss it 
over the air). But...
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yes. I understand.
 
I'm still following the Inslaw case. And of course, I've had 
another one, just like Gunther Russbacher, in Michael 
Riconosciuto!
 
 
WHEATON:
Some of them, I think, may be covert operators that just can't 
distinguish the truth from fiction. And some of 'em are "ringers" 
that they send in on you just as confusion people, so that you 
don't know which way to go.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Aren't they good at that.
 
All right. My guest is Gene Wheaton. Subject: investigating the 
kind of corruption that goes on in our government. If you'd like 
to join us, 1-800-878-8255. I'm Tom Valentine. This is *Radio 
Free America*.
 
[...commercial break...]
 
All right, we are back, live. My guest is Gene Wheaton.
 
You know, Gene, I'm sitting here as a journalist and a co-author 
for many, many people; I'm saying, "Have you arranged for your 
book yet?"
 
 
WHEATON:
[laughs] No. I'd have to write it as fiction. Nobody'd believe it 
as the truth!
 
 
VALENTINE:
I think maybe you and I'd better talk. Because I have worked with 
people before on this kind of book, and *yes*, we should talk. 
You're *not* fiction. And I think people who listen can tell 
there's credibility here.
 
Fred. Picayune, Mississippi. You're on with Gene Wheaton.
 
 
FRED:
Hello, Tom! Nice to talk with ya. And good afternoon... Colonel, 
Colonel Wheaton, is it?
 
 
WHEATON:
Chief warrant officer.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Chief warrant officer.
 
 
FRED:
O.K. I helped pull a whole bunch of marines [unclear] the 10th 
Corps on the beach at [unclear] back in December of 1950, and so 
consider myself a friend of the armed forces, since I was a 
member of the United States Navy.
 
But a question I have for you is, I happened to read a piece in 
the Louisville *Courier-Journal*, on the front page, about -- I 
guess it was the third week of January, 1987 -- in which a pilot 
who had been caught hauling weapons down to, I think it was... 
uh, Honduras -- I think it was Honduras -- and was bringing back 
loads of drugs!! He said it happened every trip! And he said that 
he would normally land on some deserted strip in Florida, in the 
middle of the night -- which he was on his way to doing, and he 
got word to go to Opalanca(?) [CN -- apparently a military 
airbase of some sort]. And he said, "Opalanca! You know what I'm 
carrying?!" And they said, "Don't worry. It's all taken care of."
 
And this was brought up during Oliver North's appearance, shortly 
after in, I forget... February, when he first appeared. There 
were a group who came into the hearing room with a huge banner. 
They unrolled this thing mentioning the drugs, so that the 
congressmen could see it. And they were dragged out of the 
building right away!
 
Do you know anything... I was wonderin', could you tell us 
anything about that or...
 
 
WHEATON:
I was in Washington, D.C. when that banner was disclosed. It was 
flown, in the room there.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yeah. *Unfurled* it, huh? [chuckles]
 
 
FRED:
...I saw it [unclear]. I was watching the hearings. It was the 
House hearings and they, these people walked in. And all of a 
sudden you've got this banner stretched out across the room...
 
 
VALENTINE:
Well Gene saw it! Go ahead, Gene. Tell us what happened.
 
 
FRED:
...and I will hang up and listen.
 
 
WHEATON:
Well, there was a... This is just one of several. We have several 
pilots, who are former covert operations pilots, that are coming 
forward *now* because of the Sabo case and because of the 32 C- 
130s. Some of them flew those C-130s. They're just now hearing 
about our investigation and it's starting to come out of the 
closet.
 
These guys *were* *patriots*, former military and Air America, 
CIA pilots, who were *told* that flying weapons down was covert 
operations, and flying drugs back would be "DEA stings". But they 
flew many, many missions and no sting operations ever happened. 
And then many of them became whistle blowers. Some of them were 
put in prison... uh, falsely, with evidence withheld at their 
trial, to shut them up.
 
But we do have, we do have a few of 'em that have come out of the 
woodwork.
 
                   [...to be continued...]
 
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Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et 
  pauperem.                    -- Liber Proverbiorum  XXXI: 8-9 

 Brian Francis Redman    bigxc@prairienet.org    "The Big C"
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    Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"        
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