  (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for conspire-post@firefly.prairienet.org); Sun, 25 Sep 1994 08:46:44 -0500
Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 2 Num. 23


              Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 2  Num. 23
             ======================================
                    ("Quid coniuratio est?")
 
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 
L.J. DAVIS INTERVIEW
 
L.J. Davis, author of an article offering a good look beneath the 
surface of Arkansas politics ("The Name of Rose", *The New 
Republic*, April 4, 1994), was interviewed by phone by David Inge 
of the local PBS-connected radio station on August 4, 1994. What 
follows is my transcription of that interview.
 
 +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +
 
DAVID INGE:
...Arkansas. Recently, in Washington, D.C., the people there on 
the hill have been consumed with this matter that has come to be 
called "Whitewater". But their investigations are largely limited 
to what has happened *in* Washington, after the Clintons *came* 
to Washington. What it sort of leaves out, and a big hole, we 
think, in the story, is getting a sort of a better understanding 
about how things worked in Arkansas before President Clinton 
became President.
 
We'll be talking with a guy, his name is L.J. Davis, who is a 
contributing editor to *Harpers* magazine, about politics in 
Arkansas, and some serious issues that are raised by an article 
that he wrote for *The New Republic*.
 
So that'll be in hour number 1. And in hour number 2 we'll be 
talking about a book entitled *Who Owns Information?* Our guest 
is Ann Branscom, a scholar in residence at Harvard University. 
That'll be in hour 2 [CN -- not covered here], after news. Stay 
with us.
 
[...]
 
Good morning, and welcome to this first hour of "Focus 580". This 
is our telephone talk program. My name's David Inge. Glad to have 
you listening.
 
In this part of "Focus 580", we will be talking about Arkansas 
politics, and about the matter that has come to be called 
"Whitewater". Last week and this, in Washington, members of 
Congress have been holding hearings into the Whitewater matter. 
What they are doing in their hearings is trying to determine 
whether or not the White House tried to influence the 
investigation of the failure of a savings and loan in Arkansas, 
Madison Guaranty. It went "belly up" in 1989.
 
The former owner of Madison was a man named James McDougal, who 
was a partner with the Clintons in the Whitewater development, an 
unsuccessful vacation home development in Arkansas, in northern 
Arkansas, along the White River.
 
And the focus of the hearings, and a lot of the discussion in 
Washington, has been: what happened after the Clintons came to 
Washington. And whether they, and people in the White House, 
tried to influence this investigation. There has not, so far, 
been very much discussion about what happened back in Arkansas -- 
either surrounding Whitewater or, in a more general sense, what 
politics are like in Arkansas. And knowing that may, indeed, shed 
some light into the conduct of the administration and some people 
who worked in the White House.
 
So, we have been casting around to find someone to talk a little 
bit about, to get this whole business with, and to get some more 
background on, Whitewater and Arkansas. And based on a suggestion 
from a listener, we set up the interview that we're doing this 
morning. And we're going to be talking with a journalist named 
L.J. Davis. He's a contributing editor to *Harpers* magazine. And 
much of our conversation this morning, here, will be based on an 
article that he wrote, that was published this past spring, in 
April [1994], in *The New Republic*, which takes a look at the 
influence of one particular, prominent, wealthy family in 
Arkansas, their connection with the Rose Law Firm (for which 
Hillary Clinton worked). And then, also, their ability of, the 
ability of a *number* of people, to influence policy to their 
benefit... largely to their *financial* benefit.
 
As we talk, you certainly should feel free to call in and be part 
of this conversation. Our number here in Champaign-Urbana: 333- 
9455. We also have a toll free line (it's good anywhere you can 
hear us), and that is: 800-222-9455. 333-WILL and 800-222-WILL. 
Those are the numbers.
 
Mr. Davis, hello!
 
 
L.J. DAVIS:
Hey! Glad to be here.
 
 
INGE:
Well, we appreciate you talking with us. It's good to have you 
with us.
 
 
DAVIS:
Well, it beats workin'.
 
 
INGE:
Uh well that's what I think. But I do try to maintain *some* 
semblance that this in fact *is* work. But, you know, I think 
most of the people that, at least, I work with see right through 
it [CN -- good example here of thigh-slapping Midwestern humor]. 
So far the audience hasn't.
 
Anyway, I appreciate your being here.
 
Um, in many ways this is obvious why this is a good story. 
Because it *is* a good story. And because it involves the 
President and it involves power and money and so forth. And at 
the same time, it seems that there hasn't been very much, very 
good, in-depth coverage, really, of the whole business. As much 
coverage as it's gotten, it's been rather superficial. Uh, aside 
from things... There has been some stuff written by reporters 
from the *L.A. Times*, from the *New York Times* [CN -- also 
*Wall Street Journal* and *Washington Times*]. You did this piece 
for *New Republic*.
 
How is it that you got interested in writing about this whole 
business?
 
 
DAVIS:
Well, I was puzzled by something back in 19-aught, '91, '92: the 
fact that we seem to be electing a man President of the United 
States who we didn't know the first useful thing about him. And I 
kept waiting for my colleagues -- and the *L.A. Times* was the 
honorable exception here -- to go to Arkansas and find out what 
kind of a place Arkansas was, and what kind of a political milieu 
it had, and what forces might have shaped William Jefferson 
Clinton. After all, he was a long-serving Governor. He was 
Governor for 12 years!
 
And so I went to Arkansas, in part, to discover what kind of a 
Governor Bill Clinton had been. And what kind of politics the 
state was dominated by.
 
 
INGE:
One of the questions that...
 
 
DAVIS:
Or characterized by.
 
 
INGE:
...you raise in this piece that you wrote, and I think comes into 
a lot of people's minds as one tries to weigh what Whitewater was 
all about, who did what, and just how serious it is: the... In 
Washington, the Democrats (obviously), it is their interest to 
try to protect the President, because he is a Democrat. And the 
Republicans are doing what they can to try to make the President 
look bad. And that's clearly partisan politics.
 
Now there *are* also some serious issues involved here. And so we 
wouldn't want to belittle *that*. But as one is trying to puzzle 
out just what happened and how serious it all is, and one seems 
to sort of be leaning in the direction of thinking that, well, 
relatively speaking it's not terribly serious -- the question 
that *does* come up (and you raise it and I think other people 
have raised it) is: If, indeed, it's not such a big deal, why is 
it that the Clinton administration has worked so hard to try to 
keep the lid screwed on so tightly?
 
 
DAVIS:
I can't give a definitive answer to that, because I don't know 
the President's thinking. On the other hand, he has consistently, 
throughout his career, shown a -- I'm going to choose my words 
very carefully here, because I neither like nor dislike Clinton. 
I don't know the man. -- but uh, shown a somewhat "flexible 
attitude" toward the truth. And the "book" on him in Arkansas is 
that Bill Clinton absolutely believes anything that he's saying 
at any given moment. Even if it contradicts what he said about 10 
minutes ago. And this is coming from friends and enemies alike.
 
Arkansas is a rather peculiar place, but you're right to put this 
into some kind of perspective. Let's have a brief look at, or try 
to do a brief overview here: Look who's investigating this um, 
"small mess". (I again choose my words carefully.)
 
                -+- Honor Among Thieves -+-
 
Whitewater appears to me to be, after a long study of the 
situation, a fairly minor -- yeah, highly questionable -- but a 
fairly typical S&L deal from the rogue years of the 1980s. If you 
shift your sights across the country to Arizona, Governor Fife 
Symington(sp?) was involved in a highly questionable S&L deal 
that netted him millions of dollars. And then, amongst the 
inquisitors of course, we forget that Senator Riegle was one of 
the "Keating 5"! The people outside New York may not be aware 
that Senator D'Amato is widely known as one of the greatest 
practitioners of "pecksniffery" in the United States Senate. And 
Senator Gramm got *himself* messed up in a sweetheart deal with a 
cratered S&L in his own state of Texas, where he ended up with -- 
oh, let's see -- Bill Clinton claims to have lost $60,000 in 
Whitewater. Senator Gramm got himself $50,000 worth of free 
cabinet work out of a cratering S&L owned by a former political 
associate friend of his. {1}.
 
                    [...to be continued...]
 
--------------------------<< Notes >>----------------------------
{1} Note that the heading for the last paragraph, "Honor Among 
Thieves", has been added by me and was not part of the actual 
broadcast.
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
     I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
If you would like "Conspiracy Nation" sent to your e-mail 
address, send a message in the form "subscribe conspire My Name" 
to listproc@prairienet.org -- To cancel, send a message in the 
form "unsubscribe conspire" to listproc@prairienet.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt.
Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et 
  pauperem.                    -- Liber Proverbiorum  XXXI: 8-9 

 Brian Francis Redman    bigxc@prairienet.org    "The Big C"
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Justice" = "Just us" = "History is written by the assassins."
--------------------------------------------------------------

