  (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for conspire-post@firefly.prairienet.org); Wed, 21 Sep 1994 11:09:57 -0500
Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 2 Num. 19


              Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 2  Num. 19
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                    ("Quid coniuratio est?")
 
 
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TERRY REED / JOHN CUMMINGS INTERVIEW
 
[...continued...]
 
 
TOM DONAHUE:
Well George Bush, I think it's been proven beyond a shadow of a 
doubt, was "in the loop". Ollie North reported to him, George 
Bush, "Mr. CIA". He was vice-President. He was put in place to 
keep Reagan in check. {1}.
 
And so, it almost seems that the perfect successor to George Bush 
would be Bill Clinton, *because* of his involvement -- not only 
through Bilderbergs and TriLats [Trilateral Commission] and CFR 
[Council on Foreign Relations] -- but because of what he knew and 
to keep those secrets, secret indeed, in Arkansas.
 
 
TERRY REED:
That's exactly correct. I had lunch about 3 weeks ago with some 
very interesting people in Washington. One of these men was the 
actual drafter of what is called the "Reagan Doctrine". And he 
made a statement that I thought was interesting. He said, you 
know, George Bush would not have survived a second term. The 
Iran-Contra affair was going to nail him in the first quarter of 
the first year of his second term. At the rate Walsh [Lawrence 
Walsh] was moving -- which, as this man said, was with the speed 
of a glacier, uh he was going in a certain direction. And it was, 
you know, the moment he nailed "Cap" Weinberger in (what, I 
believe it was what, October or November of 1992?), the moment he 
got to the President's men, the President was next. And that 
decision had been made that Bush would basically *not* be re- 
elected.
 
 
DONAHUE:
And Bush pardoned all the President's men.
 
 
REED:
Yes. I mean, what you've got is a President that, I mean, was 
*told* to basically throw the match. You know, go out there as a 
prize fighter and go out in the first round. Don't fight back.
 
As they sat there -- and these were Republican handlers! These 
people, one is Dr. Jack Wheeler(sp?), who helped draft the Reagan 
Doctrine. And I have no reason not to believe him as he sits 
there and says, "These decisions were made. And [we] decided we 
wanted Clinton in because we could control him, and eliminate him 
in his first 4 years, and get a Republican back in after 4 
years." And I thought, "Now this sounds like a master 
intelligence plan to me." So I subscribe to that theory right 
there.
 
 
DONAHUE:
Well many of us saw that George Bush didn't campaign. There was 
no fight put up. He was a beleaguered horse to be put out to 
pasture. But what you're saying *beyond* this -- and many 
conspiracy theories that I *do* subscribe to -- is that he was 
told, that George Bush was told, that it was his time to move on, 
and Bill Clinton *was* selected at the Bilderberg meeting to be 
the most likely candidate if the American people... The American 
people still had to fit into the equation: they have to get the 
right media, publicity, and certainly the right campaigning to 
engineer this. But *you're* saying here that because of Iran- 
Contra, because of the report that was due to be released, and 
because of Mena and other things, George Bush *had* to leave. I 
mean, there was...
 
 
REED:
That's right.
 
 
DONAHUE:
...I mean, he knew his political fortune was spent. And they 
thought they could keep Bill Clinton in check and they had enough 
dirt on him, the higher-ups that run this government behind the 
scenes, that Clinton was the man. He was selected.
 
 
REED:
Well there was a famous study done by NASA, they were studying 
the intelligence of chimpanzees -- you ever remember reading 
about that? -- where a chimpanzee played tic-tac-toe with a 
rhesus monkey. And the reward for winning was a banana. And the 
tic-tac-toe game was dominated by the chimpanzee to the point 
[that] the rhesus would quit to play, would quit playing.
 
 
DONAHUE:
Right.
 
 
REED:
And the chimp figured out he had to throw the game occasionally 
to keep the rhesus' interest.
 
And I compare that to the Republicans being in the White House 
for 12 years. If you stay in 16 [years], the people are gonna 
probably get a pretty good idea that, I mean, the Democrats are 
gonna field a strong candidate, probably seize power for at least 
8 [years]. But if you allow a weak Democratic candidate to 
elevate himself to that position {2}, chances are he'll only be 
in 4 [years]... or less, as I think this is gonna turn out to be. 
And the Republicans *will* be back in '96, if not sooner. And I 
think that's the way it's gonna play out, personally.
 
 
DONAHUE:
Well actually, it would have to be '96. Although we might have Al 
Gore replacing Billy Boy soon.
 
The millstone, truly, beyond "Whitewater rafting" {3}: Is it 
gonna be Mena, Arkansas? Or is it gonna be... And I guess Mena as 
well as the bond peddling that went on.
 
 
REED:
Well the first money audit of Arkansas is occurring right now. 
There's never been a money audit into Arkansas' financial 
business. Uh, there's... No one's ever had subpoena power to pull 
back the layers of these relationships. And it's mine and John's 
[John Cummings'] theory, and we certainly didn't intend our book 
to be the vehicle to be used as a roadmap to "nuke" Bill Clinton. 
But I think that's what it's gonna turn out to be is, our book is 
already being compared to *Uncle Tom's Cabin* {4}. Sort of a 
scarey statement, but it's becoming the research vehicle to 
describe the behind-the-scenes relationships, the atmosphere in 
Arkansas (for those that didn't live there in 1985, '86). The 
atmosphere is captured there to understand that you're dealing 
with this vertical chess game [i.e. many levels]. And I think, 
what I've been saying, is Whitewater's gonna turn into 
Blackwater. As the relationship of the CIA is exposed, that's 
what's gonna ultimately destroy Bill Clinton, I think.
 
 
DONAHUE:
It's gonna be Deepwater for him, indeed. Deep "do-do". Quicksand, 
if you will.
 
Terry Reed, John Cummings. We're gonna come back with their final 
words. And we can squeeze a call or two in as well. Right back.
 
                    [...to be continued...]
 
--------------------------<< Notes >>----------------------------
{1} "He [Bush] was put in place to keep Reagan in check." Here's 
what Bo Gritz has to say (from Conspiracy for the Day, March 11, 
1994, *excerpts only*):
 
  In Mesa, I met with him [Cleon Skaas(?)] and I said, "Why in 
  the world did Ronald Reagan sell us down the tube by taking 
  George Bush as his running mate?" And I really didn't know 
  that Cleon knew Ronald Reagan rather well. But he told me: He 
  said, "Bo, George Bush was Ronald Reagan's greatest 
  opponent," (if you'll remember, back in the 1980 elections), 
  "and Ronald Reagan said he would never have him. Then, Ronald 
  Reagan was invited to New York to go see Rockefeller. When he 
  saw Rockefeller, he was told, 'If you do not take my head of 
  the Trilateral Commission'" (remember, the Council on Foreign 
  Relations, George Bush) "'as your running mate, the only way 
  you'll see the inside of the White House is as a tourist.'"
 
  "Now, when you read Kitty Calley's junk about the Reagan 
  family, even if one percent of it is true, you can see a man 
  with great vanity wouldn't want that dirty laundry exposed. 
  And who even knows the vice-President? So I honestly thought 
  Ronald Reagan said, 'Well, George Bush will never hurt any of 
  us. Because I'm going to be President.'"
 
  [...]
 
  Two months after he was inaugurated, two months is all that 
  Ronald Reagan lasted. March 30th, 1981, two months after his 
  inauguration in January of 1981, he was shot -- was he not? 
  And the news said that he was shot by John Hinckley, jr. and 
  that John Hinckley, jr. was some kind of a Jodie Foster 
  freak. And that he came out of nowhere, and that he shot 
  Brady in the head, and he shot a policeman in the neck, and 
  he shot a Secret Service man and blew him back over the 
  vehicle, and he shot Ronald Reagan. Right?
 
  [...]
 
  When Brady was shot, no question. Here we've got John 
  Hinckley, jr. Oh, by the way, is John Hinckley, jr. just some 
  kind of a "weirdo?" Isn't it strange that John Hinckley, sr. 
  is the owner of Vanderbilt Oil? And, of course, George Bush 
  is the owner of Zapata Oil. Was it a coincidence, then, that 
  John Hinckley, sr. and George Bush are neighbors *for years* 
  in Houston, Texas, working together? Is it any coincidence 
  that John Hinckley, sr., when you go back through the FEC, 
  the Federal Election Commission, his own record of giving 
  maximum donations every year to Mr. Bush even when he started 
  running for Congress. Well now, does that make his son, John 
  Hinckley, jr. seem a little bit less of a coincidence? I 
  think it does. Here's why:
 
  When the President was shot, if you'll remember, he was 
  pushed into the car by a man named Jerry Parr(sp?) that was 
  his Secret Service guard. Jerry Parr fell on top of him and, 
  I just saw in the *Reader's Digest* where Jerry Parr was 
  telling his "valiant story." And the limousine tore off, 
  didn't it? Now it was *five minutes later* that the ambulance 
  arrived and they put the Secret Service man, the Washington, 
  D.C. policeman, and Brady in the ambulance and *it* roared 
  off. Using normal time-rate/distance, who should have arrived 
  at George Washington University Hospital first? The President 
  should have. Well, who did? You know it's a trick question. 
  The ambulance arrived 15 minutes before the President. When 
  asked, "What happened?" the Secret Service simply responded, 
  "We got lost."
 
  The Secret Service does not get lost in Washington, D.C. They 
  don't get lost in most places of the world. And so, now the 
  investigation starts to get a little interesting. When they 
  take Ronald Reagan in, they can see that he... matter of 
  fact, his heart almost stopped. And he is convulsing; there's 
  blood on his lips. They know he's hurt... seriously. But they 
  can find no wounds. They X-ray him *3 times* and can find 
  nothing.
 
  Finally, a nurse notices a tiny entrance wound right at the 
  seventh rib, underneath the armpit. And a doctor takes a 
  probe, and by... very carefully, because they couldn't see it 
  on X-ray, the doctor is able to extract what he said was a 
  planchet, thinner than a dime, that was one-quarter inch from 
  Ronald Reagan's aorta.
 
  Now, Ronald Reagan says... as a matter of fact, let me just 
  see if I can just read it to you... best what Ronnie says. 
  I've got all this in the book... This came right out of a 
  newspaper:
 
    I knew I had been hurt, but I thought that I'd been hurt 
    by the Secret Service man landing on me in the car. As 
    it was, I must say it was the most paralyzing pain. I've 
    described it as if someone hit you with a hammer. But 
    the sensation, it seemed to me, came after I was in the 
    car and so I thought that maybe his gun or something had 
    broken a rib. I set up on the seat, and the pain 
    wouldn't go away -- and suddenly, I found I was coughing 
    up blood.
 
  Now you see, to almost anyone else you might say, "Well, just 
  some kind of a fluke." But I'm a skeptic. Because I know how 
  these things have happened ever since they "took out" John 
  Fitzgerald Kennedy. I think maybe JFK was the last honest 
  President that we had...
 
{2} "But if you allow a weak Democratic candidate to elevate 
himself to that position..." As also with Carter. Carter and 
Clinton, both Governors, both unfamiliar with the Washington 
scene, both novices.
   We have (1) JFK, a Democrat, gets killed; (2) Johnson is 
somehow controlled so a serious investigation of the JFK 
assassination doesn't happen; (3) Nixon, a Republican. No serious 
investigation of the JFK assassination; (4) Carter, a Democrat. 
Finally, an attempt is made at a serious investigation, but 
hidden forces seek to hamper it; (5) Reagan and Bush, no 
investigation; (6) Clinton. Claims to be a reincarnation of JFK, 
but why no investigation nor any moves in that direction? 
Instead, Clinton does a rare thing: promotes the movie "Line of 
Fire" which supports the official version of the JFK 
assassination. How often does a President go out of his way to 
endorse a movie?
   Also, after the movie "JFK" came out, reporters asked Bush 
what he thought of it. Here's Bush: "Huh? A movie called 'JFK' 
did you say?"
 
{3} "Whitewater rafting". This seems to be a euphemism for the 
public perception of Whitewater (i.e. a land deal gone sour) 
versus the deeper complexities of drug and gun running, murder, 
intimidation, etc. In other words, "Whitewater rafting" conjures 
up an innocent perception, or indeed a *surface* perception -- 
*rafting*. But beneath the surface there is much more.
 
{4} "*Uncle Tom's Cabin*" A bestselling book from the time of the 
American Civil War. The book had an enormous popular reaction.
 
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Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt.
Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et 
  pauperem.                    -- Liber Proverbiorum  XXXI: 8-9 

 Brian Francis Redman    bigxc@prairienet.org    "The Big C"
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"Justice" = "Just us" = "History is written by the assassins."
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