  (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for conspire-post@firefly.prairienet.org); Tue, 20 Sep 1994 17:59:38 -0500
Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 2 Num. 17


              Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 2  Num. 17
             ======================================
                    ("Quid coniuratio est?")
 
 
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TERRY REED / JOHN CUMMINGS INTERVIEW
 
[...continued...]
 
 
JACK [Phone caller]:
Hi. I have a couple of quotes for you gentlemen.
 
 
TOM DONAHUE:
All right.
 
 
JACK:
And a couple of questions: one on Bush, one on Clinton and the 
CIA.
 
 
DONAHUE:
Mmm-hmm [understands].
 
 
JACK:
First quote comes from Elie Wiesel -- you know, the holocaust 
man, the great Elie Wiesel? -- who says that the CIA should be 
abolished! The quote is, "The CIA should be eliminated."
 
I guess, you know, one wonders... The abuses...
 
 
DONAHUE:
So does former President Harry Truman...
 
 
JACK:
That's right. Yeah.
 
 
DONAHUE:
...or did.
 
 
JACK:
Anyway. Also, another quote is from, I guess the second leading 
man in the government, the Speaker of the House, leader of 
Congress, Jim Wright, when he was the Speaker from Texas. And he 
said that the CIA (this is about a year before he was forced 
out), he said, "The CIA causes all these riots and troubles and 
assassinations and wars all around the world." I don't know if 
you remember that famous quote or not.
 
My two questions, though, uh the first one on Bush and one on 
Clinton: Do you remember that, in the late '80s, that this 
memorandum came out about George Bush? It said that there was *a* 
"George Bush", who was a CIA agent or operative, in Dallas the 
day that the President, our beloved President Kennedy...
 
 
DONAHUE:
...either the CIA or the government reported to Bush. Um...
 
 
JACK:
Bush denied this emphatically, that he was the "George Bush" 
agent for the CIA. I mean, God forbid he was the trigger man or 
whatever. But the point is that, you know, that that was 
reported. That memorandum. I was wondering if your two guests had 
heard *that*.
 
 
DONAHUE:
All right. Thanks, Jack.
 
 
JACK:
And my question [cut off]...
 
 
DONAHUE:
I want to go back to our guests here on this.
 
Uh, George Bush's connections. Some have alluded he was involved 
somehow, maybe even on the fringes, of the Kennedy assassination, 
and he was in the CIA at that time.
 
 
TERRY REED:
Well I have no personal knowledge of that, of course. But I 
think... I say this about... To address the question about the 
CIA: We, right in the front of the book... I went to the Harry 
Truman archives, the library, and found a letter that we put 
right in the front of the book, about Truman's views on the CIA. 
Because Harry Truman is the man that formed the CIA. {1}.
 
Now I, like Harry Truman, feel that the CIA's mission was to gain 
intelligence. And I think we still need that, especially now, 
with the USSR no longer in business and the fight over plutonium 
and everything else that's going on. {2}. But I don't think that 
the CIA's mandate should be to *tamper* with foreign governments. 
I think, as Harry [Truman] indicated in that letter, in the front 
of the book, (which is a real short letter, I'll read one 
paragraph...)
 
 
DONAHUE:
Why don't you do that.
 
 
REED:
It says, "The CIA was set up by me for the sole purpose of 
getting all the available information to the President." Period. 
"It was *not* intended to operate as an international agency 
engaged in strange activities. Sincerely yours, Harry S. Truman."
 
Being a man that speaks rather directly -- and I think I'm the 
same way. I was raised near his home and we're taught to speak 
pretty straight in southern Missouri -- I agree with Harry.
 
 
DONAHUE:
He commissioned it. He was the architect of this, believing that 
this agency would serve the President and the Congress and give 
the information we needed on potential enemies or perceived 
enemies at that time. But it is now an agency completely out of 
control, that doesn't seem to report to anyone and has a 
*massive* budget. My understanding is a $30 billion budget?
 
 
REED:
Well its budget is even classified, right?
 
But no, it [CIA] wasn't even to report to Congress, Tom, it was 
just to him [Truman]. If you study the history of when he took 
over the Presidency -- Roosevelt was such a strong President and 
had been in office for so long, when Harry assumed the office, he 
didn't trust the people around him. They were disobedient. They 
lied to him; he caught them lying. Because, as he put in one of 
his letters that I've read, the Department of Agriculture had a 
better worldwide intelligence network than he did! He was caught 
between the military lying to him, and the Department of 
Agriculture, which had agents in the field monitoring crops 
around the world. It was an amazing environment when he took 
over. And I think it was almost a coup environment. So he formed 
the CIA, literally with a handful of people. I believe it was, 
initially, 5 guys. And then it grew into 8 or 10. And then, of 
course, it just kept mushrooming...
 
 
DONAHUE:
And it became a greater creature, a monster, if you will, than 
all others put together, or combined.
 
 
REED:
But he had it under control, until Congress took it over. 
Congress became jealous of the fact that he had access to 
information and they didn't. And a major play was made to 
basically turn it into a federal agency. And they were successful 
in doing that.
 
 
DONAHUE:
O.K. Let's -- and I just want to thank the sponsor. We're not 
gonna take the "time out" here except just to thank Swiss America 
Trading [...]
 
Bill Clinton. His involvement. *When* did he know? *What* did he 
know? How much involvement in this Mena, Arkansas, either 
operation or cover-up, do you believe the President to be?
 
 
REED:
Well John [Cummings] and I devoted 3 chapters and 31 pages to a 
meeting that took place in the spring of '86. I don't profess, 
Tom, to have been in charge of this operation. I just sort of 
acquired knowledge, as anyone would over 15 months or so.
 
But basically, I couldn't see how this could be going on, at the 
level it was, without state involvement. After I was involved a 
little on the light of a year, I received an "accidental 
promotion" as I call it, or a "field promotion", and was then put 
in play with this guy, Bob Nash, who was a cabinet-level officer 
of Clinton's government [in Arkansas.] He [Nash] wanted to know 
how many flights were being flown, what the status of the 
training was. So I knew at that point that the state was at least 
"in the loop" from an informational level.
 
But the meeting in the spring of '86, that Clinton attended as we 
were pulling out of Arkansas: He [Clinton] showed up unannounced, 
uninvited. Bob Nash was supposed to attend to represent the 
state, but he [Clinton] showed up to complain about certain 
things -- and it takes a long time to discuss that. But 
basically, he was in trouble politically that year and did not 
want to be left with the "baggage", of the residue, of this 
operation, coming out and blind-siding him during what was 
turning out to be a very contested political uphill battle for 
him in the spring of '86.
 
So based upon that meeting and the conversation that ensued, I 
can say he knew all about it. Certainly he didn't appear to be 
[unclear] to complain about the withdrawal of something if you 
weren't aware of its presence to begin with. {3}.
 
                    [...to be continued...]
 
--------------------------<< Notes >>----------------------------
{1} "...Harry Truman is the man that formed the CIA." This is our 
Karma: Truman, representing us as our President, drops the bomb 
on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In return, to pay off our Karmic debt, 
we get the CIA.
 
{2} "...with the USSR no longer in business and the fight over 
plutonium and everything else..." Could explain the reports of 
Russian military equipment being seen in the U.S., as is being 
thoroughly covered by *The Spotlight*. We know there is a Russian 
mafia that is "asset stripping", i.e., selling state property on 
the black market. Suppose the U.S. is buying Russian military 
equipment at bargain prices from the new Russian mafia: Would the 
U.S. government admit to this?
   U.S. government buys Russian military items from the Russian 
mafia, brings these items to the U.S., items are seen, alarm is 
sounded: Russian military equipment in U.S.! What will the U.S. 
government do, admit they bought the equipment on the black 
market? Or will they do their usual denials, and thereby 
(inadvertently) further inflame anxieties regarding the presence 
of Russian military equipment?
 
{3} From the book (*Compromised*, by Terry Reed & John Cummings):
 
    Now the meeting was starting to turn into a shouting 
    match. Terry [Reed] quietly observed that Clinton 
    appeared on the verge of losing his well-rehearsed, 
    statesman-like demeanor. Stopping investigations around 
    Mena had helped the CIA and its bosses in Washington, 
    but it had not solved any of the governor's local 
    political problems. And these same problems were 
    threatening to unveil the Mena operations. [Chapter 17, 
    "New Covenant", p. 230.]
 
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Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt.
Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et 
  pauperem.                    -- Liber Proverbiorum  XXXI: 8-9 

 Brian Francis Redman    bigxc@prairienet.org    "The Big C"
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"Justice" = "Just us" = "History is written by the assassins."
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