  (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for conspire-post@firefly.prairienet.org); Tue, 13 Sep 1994 18:22:01 -0500
Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 2 Num. 10


              Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 2  Num. 10
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                    ("Quid coniuratio est?")
 
 
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TERRY REED / JOHN CUMMINGS INTERVIEW
 
[...continued...]
 
 
TOM DONAHUE:
Welcome back. The book is *Compromised: Clinton, Bush and the 
CIA*. How the Presidency was co-opted by the CIA. Terry Reed, 
John Cummings, are our guests. We'll be going to your phone calls 
in just a few minutes.
 
The book is available (I think) through some of the bookstores. 
{1}. But we're making it available to our listeners. [...gives 
info on how to order book...]
 
I want to go straight to John Cummings, investigative reporter 
and co-author of this book. John, why did Terry [Reed] come under 
attack? There are consequences when you speak out.
 
 
JOHN CUMMINGS:
Well Terry, of course, has a lot of knowledge that's very 
detrimental to some very big people -- namely, George Bush and 
Bill Clinton.
 
But a point I wanted to make, above and beyond that, is one of 
the fascinating aspects to this story. And I know everyone's 
focusing on Bill Clinton being involved, and George Bush. But a 
very parallel story is occurring south of the border, south of 
*your* [i.e. Texas] border, with Mexico. One of the people...
 
 
DONAHUE:
You mean our "NAFTA Neighbor"?
 
 
CUMMINGS:
Huh?
 
 
DONAHUE:
Our "NAFTA Neighbor".
 
 
CUMMINGS:
Your "NAFTA Neighbor", that's how...
 
And Terry was put in play with a man, he was a young, aspiring 
Governor (like Bill Clinton) of a state in Mexico -- Michoacan -- 
and now he's the leading candidate, or *a* leading candidate, for 
the President of Mexico. And that's Cuauhtemoc Cardenas.
 
And he was put into play, with Terry, by the CIA so that they 
could set up some kind of permanent facility in Mexico for the 
production of arms and other activities.
 
And I... To me, it's fascinating that you have this parallel 
story of a Governor in Arkansas, and the Governor of Michoacan. 
And this is a man who the polls say, if they don't have a rigged 
election this time, could be the President of Mexico by the end 
of this year. {2}.
 
 
DONAHUE:
So it wouldn't be stretching the point to say that many 
Presidential creations, here and abroad (or, to the south of our 
border), are... they're CIA creatures, or creations.
 
 
CUMMINGS:
Well many leaders in small, third-world countries *are* CIA 
creations. I mean, we have 'em all over Latin America. Uh, as far 
as I know, this is the first one in the United States. But I 
could be wrong about that.
 
 
DONAHUE:
Hmm. Interesting. And your involvement with Terry Reed: I know 
you touched on it in the first hour, but expound on that. Why are 
you involved with Terry and working with him so closely?
 
 
CUMMINGS:
Because it's a story I've been searching for for a long time! 
Ever since 1961, when the Bay of Pigs turned into such a 
disaster. And it's the confluence of political influence with 
intelligence operations, both [political] parties being "in bed 
together", and the confluence of guns and drugs.
 
And Terry was talking before about the people in Arkansas who 
*were* trying to investigate. And it's interesting (and we have 
it in the book): there's a photo of Terry, taken by one of the 
local police, standing in front of the hangar at the Mena 
airport, in 1984 -- just at the time he said. In fact, it was a 
very key piece of evidence for me, that made me convinced that 
the story (this was early on), that the story he was telling me 
was true.
 
 
DONAHUE:
Why was Terry indicted? What's the circumstances there?
 
 
CUMMINGS:
Well, when Terry found out about the drugs in Mexico being run 
out of his hangar, he said, "I'm no longer," (you know), "gonna 
be part of this. That's not something I want to be involved in." 
And at that point he made what he thought was an honorable exit 
from Mexico, only to find out that certain people in Arkansas, 
along with the Justice Department, had targeted him for 
indictment. And possibly death.
 
 
DONAHUE:
And, to be indicted for what reason?
 
 
CUMMINGS:
He was indicted for allegedly stealing his own airplane and then 
collecting the insurance on it. Which of course was untrue, and 
he was acquitted by a judge of that charge -- after the 
government, after two-and-a-half years, announcing it had no case 
and it had no evidence.
 
 
DONAHUE:
And about that time...
 
 
CUMMINGS:
...decided to shut him up. I mean they were trying to close his 
mouth.
 
 
DONAHUE:
So Terry was speaking out at that time.
 
 
CUMMINGS:
No, but they were afraid. Terry wasn't speaking out at that point 
in time, but they were afraid he would.
 
 
DONAHUE:
Because he said, "No more," and he...
 
 
CUMMINGS:
[There has been contention for who will speak (above). Now 
Cummings interrupts] I'm sorry. They considered him a "whistle 
blower" I guess.
 
 
DONAHUE:
Or if not, a potential whistle blower because...
 
 
CUMMINGS:
A potential whistle blower.
 
 
DONAHUE:
...he separated himself and was parting ways.
 
 
CUMMINGS:
Yes. And I'm sure George Bush, who was running for election at 
that point in time, did not want to have Terry Reed talking, nor 
did Bill Clinton either, in Arkansas.
 
 
DONAHUE:
Bottom of the hour pause here. Right back. Stay tuned.
 
[...break...]
 
Tom Donahue, "America's Town Forum," patriotism in action. Terry 
Reed, John Cummings, are our special guests. The book is 
*Compromised: Clinton, Bush and the CIA*. How the Presidency was 
co-opted by the CIA.
 
Are we ready for calls, gentlemen? Or John, did you want to say 
anything more before we...
 
 
CUMMINGS:
No, that was the only point I wanted to make -- about Mexico.
 
 
DONAHUE:
O.K.
 
 
CUMMINGS:
I thought it would be of some interest. Particularly...
 
 
DONAHUE:
What was the time line (before we go to the calls) on the 
indictment and Terry being cleared of those charges?
 
 
CUMMINGS:
Well, it was two-and-a-half years.
 
 
DONAHUE:
Give us the exact dates on those.
 
 
CUMMINGS:
He was indicted, I believe, on June 1st, 1988... That's right.
 
 
DONAHUE:
'88. O.K.
 
 
CUMMINGS:
And he was acquitted by a judge on November the 9th, 1990.
 
 
DONAHUE:
Hmm. O.K. And obviously George Bush would have been deeply 
concerned about this information getting out if... He wouldn't 
have been President. And certainly Clinton knew of *his* 
Presidential hopes and aspirations.
 
 
CUMMINGS:
Well it's particularly true, because one of the people who was 
Terry's superior in Mexico was a man named Felix Rodriguez, who 
boasts openly about his relationship with George Bush.
 
                    [...to be continued...]
 
--------------------------<< Notes >>----------------------------
{1} Yes, the book is available through the bookstores or can be 
ordered through them.
 
{2} Regarding Cuauhtemoc Cardenas: He did not win the election 
for President of Mexico.
 
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Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt.
Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et 
  pauperem.                    -- Liber Proverbiorum  XXXI: 8-9 

 Brian Francis Redman    bigxc@prairienet.org    "The Big C"
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"Justice" = "Just us" = "History is written by the assassins."
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