  (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for conspire-post@firefly.prairienet.org); Sun, 4 Sep 1994 17:15:26 -0500
Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 2 Num. 02


              Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 2  Num. 02
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                    ("Quid coniuratio est?")
 
 
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TERRY REED / JOHN CUMMINGS INTERVIEW
 
[...continued...]
 
 
TOM DONAHUE:
We're back. Tom Donahue, "America's Town Forum", patriotism in 
action.
 
Terry Reed, John Cummings, the authors of *Compromised: Clinton, 
Bush and the CIA* -- How the presidency was co-opted by the CIA.
 
And gentlemen, I have to admit I wish I had the time to read 550 
pages of small, fine print that's in this book, and all the 
documentation. I didn't. I've scanned it. Some day I will [read 
it.] I highly recommend it though.
 
 
TERRY REED:
Great. If I could just finish with that one thought here, Tom, 
about why Clinton may have done this: You know, certainly, if he 
assumed power and became Governor, he had a *full* agenda of 
trying to turn that state around. And certainly, if he wanted, if 
he had this secret ambition all along to become President, he had 
a lot of work cut out for him. He had to build an industrial base 
and literally drag Arkansas up into the 20th century. And I think 
one way he did that is by, through cooperation with the CIA -- 
which we get into deeply in the book, about the money laundering 
aspects and actually government, certain industries, getting 
involved in the manufacturing of weapons components.
 
So anyway, with that said, I'd like you to talk to John 
[Cummings]. John's a great journalist and came to me, hounded me 
for 2 years, to do this book. And I finally gave in. And, but 
John's responsible for forcing me to sit down and put this thing 
together with him. So...
 
 
DONAHUE:
One more question before we bring John into the discussion here: 
What *was* going on in Mena, Arkansas? In a nutshell, tell us 
what transpired and what you observed.
 
 
REED:
O.K. Let's talk about what was supposed to have happened versus 
what I think *did* happen.
 
 
DONAHUE:
All right.
 
 
REED:
Certainly as I... I was working there for approximately 15 
months, flight training. In the course of doing that, I became 
aware that Barry Seal was flying weapons down to staging areas in 
Central America. The weapons components, that were going into 
making the completed weapon, were being drawn from National Guard 
armories, in Arkansas, with the exception of some critical parts 
that do have "tracking" built in -- for, not only for D.O.D. 
[Department of Defense] purposes, but also for Alcohol, Tobacco 
and Firearms [i.e., ATF]. Those pieces, that you literally could 
not pull out of the Army inventory without triggering some kind 
of an audit, were being built, initially, by a company called 
Iver Johnson Firearms, which was up north of Little Rock.
 
So you had weapons procurement, and assembly and manufacture. You 
had the transportation of those weapons. You had the *contra* 
pilot training, that I was involved in. And later I discovered 
that Seal was flying back in cash, in large quantities, on his 
way back in from Central America.
 
That's what I saw, were those elements.
 
 
DONAHUE:
What about the drug connection? What about drugs for arms? Did 
that happen?
 
 
REED:
Well I'm not gonna say it didn't happen. I didn't observe it in 
Arkansas.
 
Now later on in the book, when I get down into Mexico and get on 
the other end of the pipeline -- I was on the receiving end of 
the pipeline up in Arkansas, and certainly those operations that 
I just outlined were very compartmentalized, and not a lot of 
overlap in personnel, with the exception of probably me. Because 
of my background in manufacturing, I was able to sort of get an 
overview of 3 facets of the operation. But once I went down to 
Mexico: Yes. I came head to head with the fact that the people 
that had sent me down there were trafficking *heavily* in 
cocaine. That resulted in me divorcing myself from this entire 
thing. And I think it's what's been causing me a lot of pain and 
suffering ever since.
 
 
DONAHUE:
I understand the small banks in Mena and surrounding communities 
were *swelling* with cash deposits.
 
 
REED:
Yeah. This IRS agent Bill Duncan, who we have in the book and who 
was on this Pat Robertson show yesterday -- I don't know if you 
saw...
 
 
DONAHUE:
No, I missed that.
 
 
REED:
...Pat Robertson did a 26-minute news segment on this whole story 
yesterday and Bill Duncan was sort of the centerpiece of that 
show. Because through his investigation, his investigative 
efforts, you realize not only did this *happen*, just as we say 
in the book, but secondarily, the containment mechanism that's 
been put in place to keep this thing from going to court and 
getting people charged for the money laundering aspects that 
Duncan discovered is what I think is most interesting now. 
Because that *does* show Clinton being involved in the short- 
circuiting of funding for the grand jury. It shows him turning a 
blind eye to requests coming from prosecutors, you know, 
requesting state funds. Just by his share of... Well, just by his 
attitude of...
 
 
DONAHUE:
He put the kabosh on it [i.e., put a lid on it, stopped it from 
happening].
 
 
REED:
Yeah. He certainly did. He became part of the mechanism that 
hammered the hammer, hammered the...
 
 
DONAHUE:
I never thought an IRS agent could be a hero, but maybe [laughs], 
maybe... Maybe one of the Internal Robbery Services best and 
brightest might have been a hero!
 
 
REED:
Well he's a C.I.D. agent, which is an undercover type...
 
 
DONAHUE:
[laughs] I've dealt with 'em, believe me! Most of 'em are morons, 
but nevertheless, uh...
 
 
REED:
[laughs]
 
 
DONAHUE:
...We'll talk about the IRS another day, Internal Robbery 
Service. We've done enough hammering on them.
 
We're gonna come back, and bring John Cummings into the mix. The 
book is *Compromised: Clinton, Bush and the CIA*. Don't go away. 
Back in seconds.
 
[...commercial break...]
 
If you'd like to join us, the talk line number, our Town Forum 
line, coast-to-coast, is 1-800-298-TALK. 1-800-298-8255.
 
John, how'd you get involved with Terry Reed? And, it's a mammoth 
book. I know you're a prolific writer, an award-winning writer. 
You worked for *Newsday* and you've authored or penned several 
books.
 
 
JOHN CUMMINGS:
Well. I came to Terry, following a trail that really started 
many, many years ago, when I, as a very young reporter, was 
assigned to cover Cuba and the Cuban exile machinations which 
climaxed in the Bay of Pigs. And in the course of observing this 
in Florida, I watched the CIA co-opt local officials and even the 
Governor at the time, in Florida, to make sure that their 
operations were not interfered with and that they could operate 
with impunity.
 
And so I came to this gradually, knowing, you know, what the 
telltale signs were.
 
 
DONAHUE:
Um-hmm [understands].
 
 
CUMMINGS:
If you say this to people, just like I just did, well they say it 
sounds implausible. But when you observe it over many years, you 
begin to see that they use the same methods over and over.
 
                   [...to be continued...]
 
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Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt.
Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et 
  pauperem.                    -- Liber Proverbiorum  XXXI: 8-9 

 Brian Francis Redman    bigxc@prairienet.org    "The Big C"
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"Justice" = "Just us" = "History is written by the assassins."
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