From ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu Mon Apr 19 20:02:06 1993
Return-Path: <ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu>
Received: from nyx.cs.du.edu by ccu.UManitoba.CA
	(4.1/25-eef) id AA04484; Mon, 19 Apr 93 20:01:50 CDT
Received: by nyx.cs.du.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA21833; Mon, 19 Apr 93 11:31:51 MDT
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (andy)
Message-Id: <9304191731.AA21833@nyx.cs.du.edu>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver.  The University has neither control over nor
	responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users.
Subject: FutureCulture Digest #370
To: future-digest@nyx.cs.du.edu
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 11:30:27 MDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: OR



 ______________________________________________________________________
|______________                        /                               |
|                                     /                                |
|                u  t  u  r  e       <___________  u  l  t  u  r  e    |
_______________________________________________________________________|


Issue #370
Monday, April 19th 1993
 
Today's Topics:
---------------
 
 clipper chip
 film rant
 Re: Computer Class
 Re: future song
 Re: Los Erotico Futuros
 Re: Re- Cafe Net(Battletech)
 Re: the right to eavesdrop...
 Re:Re: Cyber Forum: Rave Panel [from sfr]
 Re:THE COMING OF THE FIBERSPHERE
 Weekly FC Administrivia
__________________________________________________________________________
 
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1993 13:52:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael O. Bartz" <BARTZMIO@udavxb.oca.udayton.edu>
Subject: Re: future song

mwark@... wrote:
>
>"The future of all space and time
>is nt gonna wither and die.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>The future of all space and time
>is not gonna say goodbye."
[rest deleted]

Boy, I really hope not!  It seems like such a promising O/S...

:) :) :) :)

--
Michael O. Bartz @ The University of Dayton, USA
bartzmio@udavxb.oca.udayton.edu -or- bartzmio@dayton (bitnet)
 
______________________________
 
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1993 12:37:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: adam fast <adamfast@hardy.u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Los Erotico Futuros

> Would it help if some wired netspeople moved in and told them the
> what's-up?  Submitted articles?  What would you consider a good
> article in this format (techno erotica)?  Is it worth saving?

go for it folx! help it evolve!! maybe they just lack material; everyone is
newbie sometimes...

(at the very least they need on the iNet... more contacts, etc... they are
in SF, with well, etc etc, why aren't they plugged in?)

adam

 
______________________________
 
From: Joe Pollock <pollock@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Re- Cafe Net(Battletech)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 93 12:46:02 PDT

> 
> > There's a place in Chicago called BattleTech. It's a realtime VR arcade. Teams
> > of 4-6 people go at in a VirtWorld in StarWars-ish WalkerTanks. It costs either
> > 
> > Michael (Unscene)    
> > 
> This is exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of- I've heard about the   
> BattleTech VR arcade, but I haven't been there yet...6 hours is a long drive
> to play a video game, no matter _how_ good. :)   A cafenet setting would 
> probably need something with lower-cost hardware, but anyway...
> Have you been to this thing? Opinions?
> -Eric
> 
It strikes me that this would be contrary to the aims of cafenet, to begin
with.  A highly interactive VR game would tend to isolate participants from
the people around them, leaving them in contact with only the other gamers.
Seems more appropriate for a dedicated VR/arcade space (which could be 
another room, of course).  I thought the purpose of cafenet was to combine
cyber and flesh interactions :-)

______________________________
 
From: a!

I tend to question the combination of a VR environment and the cafenet
concept, unless some rather specialized cafenets develop.  For an 
example of what happens when you combine food, social space and a lot
of electronic hardware, go visit a Chuck E. Cheese.

It's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.  :-)

joe

 
______________________________
 
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1993 16:04:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris L Concepcion <briareos@world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Computer Class

Hullo, my name's Chris Concepcion, I'm a freshman at Babson College and I
just caught your impassioned plea.
In alt.cyberpunk you write:

>I am a grad student and am putting together a class to be called:

>Computers as Culture

>E-mail me on what you people think should be included.
>Subjects

  Artifical Intelligence (taking a look at Blade Runner/Neuromancer and the
morality of AI slaves theme; AIs as the new Deux Ex Machina.)

  Difference between 1st and 2nd Generation Cyberpunk Literature
	- 1st Generation = Neuromancer, Blade Runner
			 = Technological dystopia primary
			   Matrix secondary
	- 2nd Generation = Snow Crash, Hot Head, Aristoi
			 = Matrix primary
			   Technological dystopia optional

  The role of Video Games in our culture (Persian Gulf videos as
desensitizing, video games leading to the evolution of virtual reality)

  Sampling and aesthetics (is techno art, what are the video applications
of sampling, what's going to happen when you don't need musical virutosity
to be able to make music?)

  Virtual Democracy (the potential and possibilities of Clinton's fetish
for technology and his dream for "electronic town meetings" and
telecommunications between the White House and the public)

  Hackers, the Information Pioneer, Reality Designer and Computer Criminal

>Reading Lists

  Well, you already mentioned Storming The Reality Studio in your .sig so
I will assume you have access to the impressive reading list there.  The
Hacker Crackdown by Bruce Sterling and Cyberpunk by Katie Hafner and John
Markoff are good for information on the relationship between hackers and
the government.

  Also think about film lists with films like Wargames, Blade Runner, Max
Headroom and Sneakers.  There is also a documentary named Cyberpunk that
is available on laser disc.  It basically documents the culture up to
around 1990, focussing on the ideas in the literature and their
application to American and global culture.

>Assignments

  A suggestion would be to have your students find a net.personality on
the Internet, maybe a hacker or a raver or an e-poet and conduct an
interview.  The feasibility of this would depend on the size of your
class, of course.  But it could lend a lot of insight, allowing your
students to learn from somebody who's on-the-scene, so to speak.

>Etc.....

>Thanks
>-- 
>=====.....Storming the Reality Studio...
>=:->                                     COUNT ZERO INTERRUPT--
>   Mindy/countzero  ak184@yfn.ysu.edu

Good luck, and no, I won't care if you use any, all or none of my
suggestions.  I'm not sure if I'd use 'em meself.  E-mail me for followup
on anything of interest.  Take Care.

- Chris

 
______________________________
 
From: Joe Pollock <pollock@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: the right to eavesdrop...
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 93 13:27:10 PDT

> 
> adam fast pounds randomly on the keyboard and comes up with
> | 
> |   time to look into pgp.
> 
> speaking of PGP - even though it's fashionable and all, I'd like to
> know if any mailing lists or mass media actually *use* it as a standard
> part of communication.
> 
> fs
> 
How would this work?  I can see how it could work in a listserver or
mail list environment, because you could encrypt the message with each
member's personal key (at a certain cost in overhead processing), but
I don't see how a mass media or open distribution could work.  In fact,
the concept is almost meaningless in an environment where where new
members sign up via an automated process.  It seems more appropriate
for small groups where members have some knowledge of each other, and
control distribution.

In fact, to some extent, the concept of encryption in a mass media
situation strikes me as unworkable and counterproductive.  Encryption
is a means to LIMIT distribution.  

joe

 
______________________________
 
Date: 18 Apr 1993 17:25:41 -0500 (EST)
From: SBG6623@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu
Subject: clipper chip

protect american citizins ... more like protect the power elite's interests.
how easy (or not( would it be to change one of these chips so the gov't 
couldn't decrypt it?
b.gross
 
______________________________
 
From: Mr G R Evans <mld013@central1.lancaster.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Computer Class
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1993 22:52:15 +0100 (BST)

When I read Chris Concepcion's:

>   Sampling and aesthetics (is techno art, what are the video applications
> of sampling, what's going to happen when you don't need musical virutosity
> to be able to make music?)

I thought:

 Not entirely relevant to fc, not entirely irrelevant either.  TSEliot's _The_
Waste_Land_, written in 1922, includes "quotations from, allusions to, or 
imitations of, atleast thirty-five different writers ... as well as several 
popular songs; and ... passages in six foreign languages." (Edmund Wilson, 
1931).  If this isn't literary sampling, I don't know what is.  The reaction 
from traditionalists then was just as extreme as the reaction from 
conservatives now to sampling in the work of anyone from MARRS to the Young 
Gods.  Plus ca change...

 Anyway, mention that to anyone who says sampling isn't art!

-- 
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  -- Glyn Evans -- mld013@lancaster.ac.uk -- Peace, love, and loud guitars --
  --            -- mld013@uk.ac.lancaster --                               --
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
______________________________
 
Date: 18 Apr 1993 19:53:10 -0600 (CST)
From: Scotto <MOORE7004@iscsvax.uni.edu>
Subject: film rant

Let's talk about this video project, then, shall we?  Wonderful.  Great to see
the memes churning on this one.  First caller, you're on the air.

Ed:
>Oh oh oh!  How so correct thou art.  It just wouldn't be a meaty film
>without the surrounding ambience of REAL LIVES to spice the virtual
>existance we so proudly tote.

Of course -- raves, fleshmeets, etc., will all be essential.  But, as far as I
can tell, that will be the easy part, relatively speaking.  What will be
strikingly difficult will be to convey effectively the online portion of the
scene, as it were, on film.  It's an interesting aesthetic challenge to
represent one medium's attraction in another medium entirely.  Granted, there
are any number of ways it *could* be done -- but HEY, we're the gaddurn cutting
EDGE here, so we've got to be cutting edge ARTISTICALLY as well as
EXISTENTIALLY.  In other words, it's not enough that the lifestyle we'll be
showing the world is cool as all get out -- the manner in which we show it has
to be cool as all get out.  So let's get our collective memestews working on
this problem.  I've got images right now of how text and visual images might
interact on film, but they're not solid yet -- MORE INPUT!  MORE INPUT!

>I'm stuck between these two approaches...
 
>linear - just a montage of time as it marches on...showing what people
>are doing at a certain time of day...all over the world... OR

>modular - sorta a subject oriented documentary...focussing on certain
>projects and aspects of the netlife...an IRC segment, an FC segment, a
>multimedia segment, etc...like a snapshot/portrait of 1993 netlife.

Here's the rub, however: most people, it seems, do not get introduced to the
Internet in such an orderly fashion.  

I'm against an actual "documentary", so to speak.  I mean, I'm all in favor of
showing all of these different environments, etc., but...wouldn't it be cooler
if we...never mind.  I gotta think about this a little more, before I object
too vehemently.  I do think, Ed, that there are more approaches (obviously)
available than the two you presented above, not to say that we couldn't and
shouldn't incorporate any kind of approach that anyone ends up using. 
Remember, we're going to have (theoretically) dozens of different directors,
cinematographers, and performers in this thing -- you'll be extremely lucky to
get one approach out of all of them, and that's (to me) the *appeal* of this
project.

Next caller, you're on the air.

Kenneth McKenzie Wark:
>Re the video idea: don't forget that besides the basic formats (Hi-8,
>VHS, Umatic etc) there are different standards: Pal-D, NTSC and SECAM.
>Need somebody with access to dubbing facilities.

I'm incredibly ignorant about all of this, and I'm sure others are too.  Would
it be possible for you to forward just a quick blurb about these different
formats and standards?

>Good thinking on the netvid project, Scotty. But who wants to volunteer to
>edit it? Or at least, be the central despatch point and Movie#1 edit
>point? 

Okay, first of all, Scotty is a character in Star Trek, whereas Scotto is the
particular net.frood you're speaking with.  Secondly, I'd like to volunteer to
edit it (and I'll volunteer my buddy .Rez to help as well, we're kind of a team
when it comes to projects like this), but I need more info on what all those
formats are, etc.  Our campus has lots o' editing facilities, and there are
pay-per-hour editing suites around here as well.  Should someone out there have
better access, however, I would freely concede.

>It would be really nice to make an effort to go global - get people
>from  everywhere.

yessir.

Next caller, you're on the air.

Chris Conception:
>Yeah, I'd love to be part of the filming, I think I'd go more for a profile
>of characters on the net, rather than just one day in the life of.  It
>gives us the best opportunity to put our best face forward.

Which brings us around to another nifty issue.  Is this some kind of PR piece
for the Internet, or do we/should we aspire to greater heights?  yeehah.

There are interesting spins to be spun here.  The aesthetics of documentary
filmmaking are very interesting indeed, what with this whole observer/observed
dilemma provided by our quantum friends.  Let's face it: your pal shoves a
camera in your face and says "Act natural, it's for posterity" -- I mean, who
are we kidding?  Every one of us will know that we're on camera, participating
in a larger product/project, and it's my contention that we go ahead and spin
that direction even further, and explore some of the fictional aspects of the
net, some of the creative aspects of the net, whatever.  Ack.  I'm not being
very eloquent here, so I'll let it go, and see where this bounces.  I think the
video should contain more than just, "this is a tour through IRC, now here's a
visit with Andy Hawks, now here's a visit to Leri-L, etc."  I'd like to see a
more kinetic dynamic than that.
 
______________________________
 
From: brad@mach.attmail.com
Date: 19 Apr 93 01:36:25 GMT
Subject: Re:Re: Cyber Forum: Rave Panel [from sfr]

Freeside wrote:

>Are you aware of any lists/newsgroups that *summarize* threads and  
>present them in some kind of "latest threads discussed" kind of  
>distribution? I'm doing it with my newsgroup, upenn.talk, just so  
>important information is easily found with the mininum of fuss -  
>unarguably one of the key themes in cyberspace.

Michael Stranglove puts out a regular posting -- I don't have it at  
the moment (actually I'm too lazy to check my archives), that gives a  
summary of what is being posted on a number of lists (religious  
studies).  Usually this is just a listing of all of the subject lines  
for a given month but it's a step in the right direction.

CONTENTS also posts the table of contents on the net of a number of  
journals and sometimes books when they come out.

I'd like to see this happen with FC related materials.

BTW did anyone catch the Wall Street Journal Report last week?  They  
had a section on Al Gore and the NREN -- and there was some fellow  
from Lotus (I'm not sure, some asshole next door had just bought a  
Karaoke machine and was singing (actually it sounded like someone  
stomping on a cat) cantopop at a volume that was causing structual  
damage to the building, and I couldn't hear the TV) who was talking  
about cyberspace and virtual Cafe's and the like.  It was strange  
because he seemed to echo a lot of what has been said on this list  
over the past month -- hmmmm perhaps he's lurking on the list?

b/
brad@mach.attmail.com
 
______________________________
 
From: brad@mach.attmail.com
Date: 19 Apr 93 02:02:55 GMT
Subject: Re:THE COMING OF THE FIBERSPHERE

Would some kind soul send me a copy of Gordon Jacobson's article THE  
COMING OF THE FIBERSPHERE.  I don't have ftp, so if someone could  
mail it to me I would be eternally grateful.

Thanks

B/

brad@mach.attmail.com
 
______________________________
 
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1993 22:24:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Al Billings <mimir@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re:THE COMING OF THE FIBERSPHERE

On 19 Apr 1993 brad@mach.attmail.com wrote:

> 
> Would some kind soul send me a copy of Gordon Jacobson's article THE  
> COMING OF THE FIBERSPHERE.  I don't have ftp, so if someone could  
> mail it to me I would be eternally grateful.

 What is it?

 
______________________________
 
From: ahawks (andy)
Subject: Weekly FC Administrivia
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 10:00:10 MDT

 ______________________________________________________________________
|______________                        /                               |
|                                     /                                |
|                u  t  u  r  e       <___________  u  l  t  u  r  e    |
_______________________________________________________________________|

________________________________________________________________________________

Vital ListStats as of April 19th 1993:
 
Realtime:     234 
Digest  :     355 
FAQ-Only:     210 
:::::::::
Total   :     799 
 
Current Digest is Issue #370.
________________________________________________________________________________

To post to the FutureCulture list, send your message to:

   future@nyx.cs.du.edu

ALL Requests to FutureCulture must be sent to:

  future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu

[All request messages should garner an auto-reply msg.  ]
[If future-request does not *consistently* work for you ]
[then please send your message to:  ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu]

The subject of request mail must have one of the following:

    subscribe realtime	  -subscribe in realtime (reflector) format
    subscribe digest	  -subscribe in daily-digest (1 msg / day format)
    subscribe faq	  -subscribe to faq only (1 msg every few months)    
    unsubscribe realtime
    unsubscribe digest
    unsubscribe faq
    help		  -receive a help file
    send info		  -receive this file
    send faq		  -receive a recent copy of the faq if you need one
			   (list subscribers *automatically* receive this) 
    send list		  -list of commands the mailserver recognizes
    send <file>		  -receive <file> from the mailserver

* When unsubscribing, you must unsubscribe from the same address you
  subscribed from.  (IMPORTANT!).  If this is not possible, send the
  message over to ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu.

* To change formats, first send a message unsubscribing from the crrent
  format, and then send another message to resubscribe.  

* Please note that when posting to the list, you should expect to
  receive at least 1 "Failed Mail" message because, inevitably, there is
  a problem with the addresses of one or more of the subscribers.  Sorry.
  Please also note that I receive these failed mail messages
  automatically, so there is no need to send them over to me, cuz I
  already know about 'em.  If it *really* bothers you, then send me
  mail about the particular address/site that is causing the problem.

list administrator:     andy (hawkeye)(dali)(freshjive)
                        ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu
			ahawks@mindvox.phantom.com
_______________________________________________________________________________

I do not keep archives of the digests, or the list in general.  So, if
you're looking for archives, I can't help you out, probably.  But it
wouldn't hurt to ask on the list.

If you're looking for an FTP site that carries FutureCulture related
stuff, try:
       		ftp.rahul.net /pub/atman/UTLCD-preview
		ftp.css.itd.umich.edu /poli/future.culture.d
       		ftp.eff.org pub/cud/papers/future
		ftp.u.washington.edu public/alt.cyberpunk
		redspread.css.itd.umich.edu

If you have IRC access, look for the '#future' channel.  If it's not
there, start it up!  Don't wait for the #future, make the #future.  =)

You can also find the FutureCulture FAQ on the IRC, with the
#CyberPunk Bot.  Join Channel #CyberPunk and type: /msg CyberBot send info.
_______________________________________________________________________________

If the list is dead, you might try posting something new.  Here are
some suggestions:

computer underground
cyberculture
cyberpunk (literary and cultural movements)
cyberspace
new edge
nootropics or other drugs
raves
technoculture
virtual reality
music, movies, books, magazines that fit into the mold
_____________________________________________________________________________

 
 _________________________________________________________________________
|                                                                         |
|  That's all for today!                                                  |
|  To send a message to the list:           future@nyx.cs.du.edu          |
|  To subscribe/unsubscribe/change format:  future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu  |
|  All other requests:                      future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu  |
|  List Maintainer is: (andy [aka hawkeye]) ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu          |
|_________________________________________________________________________|
|                                                                         |
|  The opinions expressed in FutureCulture are those of the individual    |
|  author only.                                                           |
|_________________________________________________________________________|


 