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Path: news.lth.se!sunic!uunet!uchinews!raistlin!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!ferris!ffej
From: ffej@honey.cray.com (Jeff Nelsen)
Subject: The Duece ?!
Message-ID: <1993Apr20.045857.22660@walter.cray.com>
Originator: ffej@ferris
Lines: 23
Nntp-Posting-Host: ferris.cray.com
Date: 20 Apr 93 04:58:56 CDT


Hi there...

	I recently saw a gun in a catalog which I believe was called 
"The Duece".  It was a double barreled pump, complete with auto trigger,
two hoppers, and a trigger which caused the balls to fire at slightly
different places along the trigger pull.

	I looked at the thing and thought "a paintball double barreled
pump shotgun?  What a wild idea!"

	Anyone used one? or seen it used?  I am curious how it performs.

	(Too bad I cannot afford the  price tag...)


			Jeff Nelsen

			ffej@honey.cray.com




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From: pmchapm@sgi7.sdrc.com (john chapman)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: The Duece ?!
Message-ID: <1657@heimdall.sdrc.com>
Date: 20 Apr 93 14:49:51 GMT
References: <1993Apr20.045857.22660@walter.cray.com>
Sender: news@heimdall.sdrc.com
Organization: SDRC
Lines: 10

This was an interesting notion, but it has some major flaws.
Primarily, if you break a ball in one barrel, you end up
with the mother of all paint goop in it because you 
continued to fire with the other barrel.  Second, if you
were going to miss with one barrel, chances are you'd miss 
with the second one two and therefore you are doubling the
paint you're wasting.  It only takes one hit to eliminate
an opponent - two is just adding unnecessary pain.

John
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Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Path: news.lth.se!sunic!pipex!uunet!portal!sdd.hp.com!crash!kevin
From: kevin@crash.cts.com (Kevin Hill)
Subject: NelSpot (Team Recon) Lapco gun. Review.
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 21 Apr 93 00:30:07 GMT
Message-ID: <kevin.735352207@crash.cts.com>
Lines: 41

  I recently jumped into paintball.  The first time I went out I HAD to play more.
So I immediatly went and bought a Paintgun.  It is called a Grey
Ghost by Paint Connection in Miramar California.  By the way,
the people there are nice, but don't let them push anything
like the barrel cleaner that came with the gun.  One of those
wire dealy's that you hvae to remove your barrel to use.
  Useless.  More than useless, so useless that I threw it out
in the middle of one of the fields.
  Anyhow - Grey Ghost by Kermit at Paint Connection.
$215 out the door with handle mounted bottle, paint feeder,
7oz bottle and that weenie squeegie.
  My personal opinion - I love the thing - Until I get a fresh
CO2 refil.  Upon getting fresh CO2 on the field, and warming it
in my armpit for 2-5 minutes, I break paint all over the place.
Turning the velocity down to around 230 is a low as I'll go and
it still breaks paint.  However, it has never broken paint on a
CO2 bottle that I have had from one weekend to the other.  It shoots
VERY accurate up to 30-40 yards, (when I aim :) and is reliable
out to 150-170 feet.  Beyond that I have not had the chance to test
it (too many trees and twigs in the way to get a clear shot.)
  

 Now that I have told you something about this gun, could someone
give me a lesson on getting liquid.  I have a sneaking suspicion that
the reason that I am breaking paint is due to the fresh CO2 not having
the chance to change to gas in the newly filled bottle.
  I am also thinking of midifying the forward assembly in the gun, and
welding a shield, so that the CO2 does not have a direct shot to the
paintball, but rather is deflected by a sheild.  Picture a big round
circle, with a little circle in the middle.  The circle in the middle
is solid, and is mounted with arms, that allow plenty of space between
the inner and outer circle.

  any help or experience would be appreciated.


 Oh, yes, the gun is an autococker, and does shoot well under rapid
fire mode on a week old CO2 cartridge. (at 280-290 fps)

 -Kevin Hill

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Path: news.lth.se!sunic!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!ruuinf!mndell
From: mndell@cs.ruu.nl (Mike Dell)
Subject: Re: The Duece ?!
Message-ID: <1993Apr21.124125.15807@cs.ruu.nl>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 12:41:25 GMT
References: <1993Apr20.045857.22660@walter.cray.com> <1657@heimdall.sdrc.com>
Organization: Utrecht University, Dept. of Computer Science
Lines: 31

In <1657@heimdall.sdrc.com> pmchapm@sgi7.sdrc.com (john chapman) writes:

>This was an interesting notion, but it has some major flaws.
>Primarily, if you break a ball in one barrel, you end up
>with the mother of all paint goop in it because you 
>continued to fire with the other barrel.  Second, if you

Don't agree, if you break a ball in one barrel in the middle of a
fight you can continue to shoot straight with the other barrel, you
don't have to fire the one where the ball broke.

>were going to miss with one barrel, chances are you'd miss 
>with the second one two and therefore you are doubling the
>paint you're wasting.  It only takes one hit to eliminate
>an opponent - two is just adding unnecessary pain.

Depends, if you wait a split second with pulling the second trigger
you can cover more area where you think the target is going to be
when the balls arrive. Also on long distance shots the balls don't
follow the exact same route. 


Mike



-- 
M.N. Dell                            Telephone : +31 3434 56478 
P.O. Box 134           
3956 ZT Leersum                      Internet  : mndell@cs.ruu.nl
The Netherlands.                     
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From: GLOCK@chip.cba.ufl.edu (Joseph R. Granto)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball,alt.sport.paintball
Subject: paint for Autococker
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 14:43:40 GMT
Organization: College of Business, University of Florida
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <GLOCK.243.0@chip.cba.ufl.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: glock.cba.ufl.edu

I am wondering what paint you Autococker fans find works best in your gun.

I have heard that 68 Ultra works very well in Autocockers, and want some 
other opinions.

Also, has anyone out there taken apart one of the Spytech IR sensors and 
mounted it in PCV?  I know people had talked about it, and was curious about 
success rates before I rip mine apart.  If anyone has succeeded, please send 
me instructions.






Joe

****************************************************************
**                 GLOCK@chip.cba.ufl.edu                     **
**                                                            **
**     "When the going gets tough, the tough get a GLOCK."    **
****************************************************************
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From: pmchapm@sgi7.sdrc.com (John Chapman)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: NelSpot (Team Recon) Lapco gun. Review.
Message-ID: <1689@heimdall.sdrc.com>
Date: 21 Apr 93 14:05:13 GMT
References: <kevin.735352207@crash.cts.com>
Sender: news@heimdall.sdrc.com
Organization: SDRC
Lines: 11

If you think you're not getting liquid CO2, then you need
to make sure that whoever is filling you're tank is using
a siphon tank to fill it.  If they aren't, try turning it
upside down to get the liquid to come out first.  WARNING:
if you aren't EXTREMELY careful when turning it upside 
down, you can knock the valve off and send a 200 pound 
missile cruising away that WILL destroy something.  Also,
you may just be overfilling your bottle.  Dry fire 20 or 
30 times before using live ammo, and see what happens.

John
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From: pmchapm@sgi7.sdrc.com (john chapman)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: The Duece ?!
Message-ID: <1690@heimdall.sdrc.com>
Date: 21 Apr 93 14:09:35 GMT
References: <1993Apr20.045857.22660@walter.cray.com> <1657@heimdall.sdrc.com> <1993Apr21.124125.15807@cs.ruu.nl>
Sender: news@heimdall.sdrc.com
Organization: SDRC
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I thought the Duece was set up with one trigger that fired
both barrels at the same time.  If this is true, then I don't
see how you can only fire the clean barrel.  Also I thought
it only had one pump that loaded both barrels. If this is 
also true, you could end up with a ton of half mashed balls
in the non-clean barrel.  i must admit, I've only seen ads for
these things, so I don't necessarily know what I'm talking
about... 

John
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Path: news.lth.se!sunic!uunet!noc.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!bcetnar
From: bcetnar@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Blake Cetnar)
Subject: Re: The Duece ?!
Message-ID: <1993Apr21.164558.2768@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
References: <1993Apr20.045857.22660@walter.cray.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 16:45:58 GMT
Lines: 34

In article <1993Apr20.045857.22660@walter.cray.com> ffej@honey.cray.com (Jeff N
elsen) writes:
>
>Hi there...
>
>    I recently saw a gun in a catalog which I believe was called
>"The Duece".  It was a double barreled pump, complete with auto trigger,
>two hoppers, and a trigger which caused the balls to fire at slightly
>different places along the trigger pull.
>
>    I looked at the thing and thought "a paintball double barreled
>pump shotgun?  What a wild idea!"
>
>    Anyone used one? or seen it used?  I am curious how it performs.
>
>    (Too bad I cannot afford the  price tag...)
>
>
>              Jeff Nelsen
>
>              ffej@honey.cray.com
>
>
>
>


Yeah...I've seen it used.  It was about 2 years ago.  It looks like it worked 
pretty good but by the looks of it, it ate up air quite quickly.  The guy had a
20 oz. hooked up to his back for that particular gun.

                                        B.Cetnar, OSU Paintball Club

"Shoot ya later!"
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Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Path: news.lth.se!sunic!uunet!microsoft!wingnut!peterbi
From: peterbi@microsoft.com (Peter Biddle)
Subject: Re: NelSpot (Team Recon) Lapco gun. Review.
Message-ID: <1993Apr21.154809.9004@microsoft.com>
Date: 21 Apr 93 15:48:09 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
References: <kevin.735352207@crash.cts.com> 
Lines: 36

Danger, Will Robinson.  May day, may day.  Somehting is very wrong, and it
has absolutely nothing to do with CO2.

I have a lot of experience with Nelspot guns, and a lot of experience
with LAPCO.  I run all LAPCO internals in my Bushmaster, and I have
the first grey ghost shoulder stock made hanging off of the back of it.

You are breaking balls for one of the following reasons:

1) Your paint stinks.

2) Operator error.  Pump guns (esp smooth ones like the Grey Ghost) are very
prone to operator error.  It took me a decent amount of practice before I
could reliably use a pump without splitting balls.  The two biggest errors
of a new player are double feeding (bad and messy) and splitting balls (the
worst and messier).  Make a habit of always checking to see if your gun
is cocked--I do this by pointing it down and gently tapping the trigger to
see if their is any resistance.  If it isn't and you think its loaded--turn
it upside down and shoot it.  Avoiding split balls takes practice.
You may not be pulling the pump back far enough.

3)Somehting is wrong with your individual gun.  Not the design.  DO NOT WELD
anything to the front of the bolt, unless you want to ruin your gun.  The
blast of CO2 is not the problem, unless you have problem 1) above.

Your problems are all probably 1 and 2 or a combo.  Change to *fresh* Nelson
(which is what the grey ghost is designed for), and stay calm.  Breath.  Have
fun.  Your statistics (cold bottle vs warm bottle) sound suspect; you haven't
played often enough to get a reliable stat.

If you are worried about liquid, buy a liquid control valve; you will suck 
liquid on this gun in a back bottle configuration if you shoot fast, as well
as any time you are pointing it down.

Peter
+++++
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From: Alexander Franklin Rose <ar2z+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: IRONMAN on Auto cocker maintenance.
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 17:57:59 -0400
Organization: Sophomore, Design, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <gfplHbK00WBO47y2Vg@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <1993Apr21.111014.1@vaxb.acs.unt.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: po4.andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <1993Apr21.111014.1@vaxb.acs.unt.edu>

   In reference to a brand new gun that blew a Three way valve.

    No this is not at all a normal occurance.  The pin that holds it the
three way valving was probably defective and or not installed properly. 
The three way is something that you should almost never ever have to
deal with unless you are taking it apart to polish the inside for a
smoother trigger pull.  The only parts that you should ever have to
replace are, the various O rings, and eventually springs.  The ram
sometimes needs to be taken apart and cleaned and get new O rings but
that should only occur often if you are sucking liquid a lot.  My
suggestion to you is to first call the place of purchase and then call
Bud himself if they cannot help you.  I am sure they will correct the
problem for free and rapidly seeing as how it is covered by the warranty.

Zander of the IRONMEN
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Path: news.lth.se!sunic!pipex!uknet!doc.ic.ac.uk!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!psuvm!gps100
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 18:08:19 EDT
From: <GPS100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Message-ID: <93112.180819GPS100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball,rec.sport.paintball
Subject: PLAYMOREs Wanted!!!!!!!!!!!
Lines: 10

I am looking for a "paintball landmine" that was out a few years ago called the
 PLAYMORE.  I understand that they are no longer on the market.  If anyone out
there has 'em and would like to sell 'em.  Email me at the address below. If no
  dice on that then how about some ideas for paint grenade booby traps.


| "I shall never understand the      | BITNET: GPS100 AT PSUVM         |
|  female capacity to avoid a direct | INTERNET: GPS100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU  |
|  answer to any question."          |       Guy 'SPOCK' Starsnic      |
|                        - Mr. SPOCK |       PENN STATE UNIVERSITY     |
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From: pilon@marcus.its.rpi.edu (T.J. Pilon)
Subject: Automag questions...
Message-ID: <07z54tf@rpi.edu>
Nntp-Posting-Host: marcus.its.rpi.edu
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 02:34:10 GMT
Lines: 23

I'm about to buy one of these guns and I have a few questions that I hope
someone who owns one can answer...

Should I get the power feed and the crown point barrel? I'm not really big
on shooting insane amounts of paint, so is the power feed useful?

Anyone using a vertical bottle out there? Is it safe or is there too much 
chance of breaking it off? I personally think it would be interesting if
not for this...

Does anyone know where I can get one of these (esp. standard model) without
waiting more than a week for the damn thing? No one seems to have them in 
stock now, except for a few Minimags and an occasional crown point/power
feed one.

If anyone out there wants to sell one, please send me email!
(I'm also interested in buying a used F-1 Illustrator...)


			Thanks,
			T.J. Pilon
			pilon@rpi.edu

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From: zoh1@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Zoh)
Subject: Re: Automag questions...
Message-ID: <1993Apr22.234402.16928@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
Reply-To: zoh1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
References: <07z54tf@rpi.edu>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 23:44:02 GMT
Lines: 8



my automag runs just fine the way it is.  i don't have a pwerfeed or the
CP barrel.  i haveit in a vertical bottle setup with a liquid control 
valve and i have had no liquid problems as of yet.  i like the set up a 
lot because it is cheap and inexpensive.  if you have any more questions,
email me.

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From: skoester@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Scott A Koester)
Subject: Re: IRONMAN on Auto cocker maintenance.
Message-ID: <1993Apr23.022555.10063@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 02:25:55 GMT
Lines: 11

In the original article, Zander states that someone should expect Bud Orr to
fix their gun promptly just because it is under warranty.

I don't think so. All I've ever heard (though I admit I have no experience)
is that the only way to get Bud to do anything for you, is to get sponsored
by him. My local shop immediately set off red lights when I asked about the
'cocker. They said that if I buy one from them I am taking my chances and that
they won't take care of it like the other guns because Bud is so hard to work
with. 


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From: skoester@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Scott A Koester)
Subject: Re: Automag questions...
Message-ID: <1993Apr23.023138.10180@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
References: <07z54tf@rpi.edu>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 02:31:38 GMT
Lines: 35

In article <07z54tf@rpi.edu> pilon@marcus.its.rpi.edu (T.J. Pilon) writes:
>I'm about to buy one of these guns and I have a few questions that I hope
>someone who owns one can answer...
>
>Should I get the power feed and the crown point barrel? I'm not really big
>on shooting insane amounts of paint, so is the power feed useful?
 Yes, get the CP barrel and the power feed. It is fairly cheap if you get
it at purchase time and it adds to resale value, but you won't want to sell
it  anyway. =)




Few standard models are made. Everyone wants the powerfeed.

>Anyone using a vertical bottle out there? Is it safe or is there too much 
>chance of breaking it off? I personally think it would be interesting if
>not for this...
Yep. I have a minimag=I too was worried about the vertical bottle dangers
But the vertical attachment is sturdy and balances the gun like a dream.
>Does anyone know where I can get one of these (esp. standard model) without
>waiting more than a week for the damn thing? No one seems to have them in 
>stock now, except for a few Minimags and an occasional crown point/power
>feed one.
>
>If anyone out there wants to sell one, please send me email!
>(I'm also interested in buying a used F-1 Illustrator...)
>
>
>			Thanks,
>			T.J. Pilon
>			pilon@rpi.edu
>


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From: skoester@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Scott A Koester)
Subject: Re: Automag questions...
Message-ID: <1993Apr23.023546.10258@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
References: <07z54tf@rpi.edu> <1993Apr22.234402.16928@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 02:35:46 GMT
Lines: 17

In article <1993Apr22.234402.16928@midway.uchicago.edu> zoh1@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>
>my automag runs just fine the way it is.  i don't have a pwerfeed or the
>CP barrel.  i haveit in a vertical bottle setup with a liquid control 
>valve and i have had no liquid problems as of yet.  i like the set up a 
>lot because it is cheap and inexpensive.  if you have any more questions,
>email me.
>

Why settle for 'just fine' when you can have the best for just a few dollars
more? I would suggest the Mini-mag if you are interested in a vertical bottle.
It is about the same price as the standard CP package, but you don't get the 
CP. It comes with a 4'' barrel. THe guys at my field laughed at such a short
barrel......for a short time. =) I don't think the barrel is anything 
spectacular, the design of the gun is just pro-accuracy.

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From: pilon@vccnw02.its.rpi.edu (T.J. Pilon)
Subject: Opinions on Automag...
Message-ID: <1az5ffk@rpi.edu>
Nntp-Posting-Host: vccnw02.its.rpi.edu
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 08:41:11 GMT
Lines: 19

Hiya...
I have a few questions that I hope some Automag users can answer before I buy
one of these guns...

First, can I get it with the feeder mount on the left side? I'm left handed
and it's really difficult for me to use guns with feeders on the wrong :)
side...
Anyone out there use the gun with a vertical bottle setup? Does this mod cost
a lot and is it worth the trouble?
How much difference does the crown point and the power feed really make? I
don't intend to fire at 9 shots per second, so do I really need the power feed?
What's a Minimag?

Thanx for whatever help you can give me...
	
			T.J. Pilon
			pilon@rpi.edu


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Path: news.lth.se!sunic!pipex!uknet!mcsun!sun4nl!ruuinf!mndell
From: mndell@cs.ruu.nl (Mike Dell)
Subject: Re: The Duece ?!
Message-ID: <1993Apr23.110634.744@cs.ruu.nl>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 11:06:34 GMT
References: <1993Apr20.045857.22660@walter.cray.com> <1657@heimdall.sdrc.com> <1993Apr21.124125.15807@cs.ruu.nl> <1690@heimdall.sdrc.com>
Organization: Utrecht University, Dept. of Computer Science
Lines: 26

In <1690@heimdall.sdrc.com> pmchapm@sgi7.sdrc.com (john chapman) writes:

>I thought the Duece was set up with one trigger that fired
>both barrels at the same time.  If this is true, then I don't

 I'm sure it had 2 triggers.. There is someone at my field who
 plays with it regularly.

>see how you can only fire the clean barrel.  Also I thought
>it only had one pump that loaded both barrels. If this is 
>also true, you could end up with a ton of half mashed balls
>in the non-clean barrel.  i must admit, I've only seen ads for
>these things, so I don't necessarily know what I'm talking
>about... 

 Well it's been some time that I've really looked at it, I can't
 remember how the pump was.. but I'm pretty sure about the trigger,
 ah well this weekend I can look how it works...

 Mike

-- 
M.N. Dell                            Telephone : +31 3434 56478 
P.O. Box 134           
3956 ZT Leersum                      Internet  : mndell@cs.ruu.nl
The Netherlands.                     
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From: zoh1@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Zoh)
Subject: Re: Opinions on Automag...
Message-ID: <1993Apr23.140409.9208@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: news@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
Reply-To: zoh1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
References: <1az5ffk@rpi.edu>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 14:04:09 GMT
Lines: 5


here in Chicago, the vertical bottle setup will run you $25 not including 
tax.  it is definitely worth the trouble; it balances the gun very well
and it solves a lot of the liquid problem.....

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From: rotheroe@convex.com (Dave Rotheroe)
Subject: Re: Automag questions...
Sender: usenet@news.eng.convex.com (news access account)
Message-ID: <rotheroe.735573663@convex.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 14:01:03 GMT
References: <07z54tf@rpi.edu>
Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.
Lines: 50

>[automag questions]

>Should I get the power feed and the crown point barrel? I'm not really big
>on shooting insane amounts of paint, so is the power feed useful?

I think the power feed is unnecessary for all but the serious tourney player.
I can shoot 5-6 rounds a second with my non-powerfeed, and that's as fast as
I can pull the trigger.

In my experience, and playing around with barrels, the crown point is
noticeably better than the stock barrel, but a smart parts or armason (sp!)
is noticeably better than a crown point.  I've known people to honestly
disagree in this, but Paintball Consumer Reports tests back this up.  I
bought a Smart Parts

A loader with an agitator is a common accessory for automag owners to quickly
purchase.

>Anyone using a vertical bottle out there? Is it safe or is there too much 
>chance of breaking it off? I personally think it would be interesting if
>not for this...

No, it's not going to break off.  In my opinion, either go vertical or
remote.  I love my remote setup, and have not had any liquid problems
in 50 degree, (very) rapid fire situations.

>Does anyone know where I can get one of these (esp. standard model) without
>waiting more than a week for the damn thing? No one seems to have them in 
>stock now, except for a few Minimags and an occasional crown point/power
>feed one.

A week isn't that bad.  Really.  Have you tried Hamilton Hobbies?  Send
john mail at john@kennel.FIDONET.ORG and ask him about price, availability,
and ordering information for netter's.  Also try Draco (don't have their
number) - they didn't have one but got it for me next day.

>If anyone out there wants to sell one, please send me email!
>(I'm also interested in buying a used F-1 Illustrator...)

You're very unlikely to find a used automag.  F-1's are out there

I love the automag.  I've yet to break a ball in the gun where I didn't
do something stupid (like twist the barrel out with a ball half fed or
firing the gun with the feed horizontal) - which is surprising for about
7500 rounds.

==================================================================8--<
Dave Rotheroe                rotheroe@convex.com              DoD#0045
CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, TX 75083-3851, (214) 497-4512
Death is a reward for being responsible.                TIP#003 (KotL)
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From: breier@halcyon.com (Breier William Scheetz)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: Good, cheap gun and paintball catalogs
Date: 23 Apr 1993 18:25:28 -0700
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc.
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Message-ID: <1ra4u8$at1@nwfocus.wa.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com
Summary: Are there any cheap guns and good catalogs out there?
Keywords: paintball newbie guns cheap catalog

I'm relatively new to me sport of paintballing, and I'd like to buy a
relatively cheap, good gun(ie. Under $200).  Are there any suggestions
for a good beginners gun, that won't blow my budget?  Thanks.

Also, does anyone know of a few good paintball catalogs or magazines
that I could subscribe too?  I've very interested.

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From: henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan)
Subject: Re: Good, cheap gun and paintball catalogs
Message-ID: <C60L7E.1yH@panix.com>
Keywords: paintball newbie guns cheap catalog
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
References: <1ra4u8$at1@nwfocus.wa.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1993 00:54:49 GMT
Lines: 33

In article <1ra4u8$at1@nwfocus.wa.com> breier@halcyon.com (Breier William Scheetz) writes:
>I'm relatively new to me sport of paintballing, and I'd like to buy a
>relatively cheap, good gun(ie. Under $200).  Are there any suggestions
>for a good beginners gun, that won't blow my budget?  Thanks.
>
For under $200 your best bet is to get a nelson based pumpgun like the
Traccer, Thunder Pig, SL-68 II or Striker.  The Sheridan Pirahnas are a
good choice.

There are NO good reliable semis under $200.  If you want a semi for less
than $200, I would reccomend looking into used guns.  If you were willing
to spend $250 then you could get the PMi-3 (good design, durable like a
tank, and with the right aftermarket barrel it will be wicked as hell)
The StingRay is crap.  PCRI tested the gun and found the seals prone to
leak in weather as cold as 45 degrees.  I know two people who bought
Stingrays, after the intial outings the guns developed seal troubles.

If you are starting off in paintball, the biggest mistake you can make is
by buying a gun.  A paintball gun is an expensive investment.  You're
better off using rentals than spending money on a gun just because it was
affordable.  If you need to buy anything, buy a comprehensive goggle/head
gear set.  Most fields offer the bare mininum goggle/head gear for
renters.  A good goggle/head system like the JT Crossfire can mean the
difference between coming back to play again and ending up in emergency
room.  Guns are nice, but goggles are essential to safe play.  Get the
goggles before getting a gun.


-- 
" I am from the planet Larson on the far side of the Galaxy" said the
space cow invading St. Canard -Dark Wing Duck

HenryC@Panix.Com
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From: henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan)
Subject: Re: NelSpot (Team Recon) Lapco gun. Review.
Message-ID: <C60LIK.26E@panix.com>
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
References: <kevin.735352207@crash.cts.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1993 01:01:31 GMT
Lines: 26

In article <kevin.735352207@crash.cts.com> kevin@crash.cts.com (Kevin Hill) writes:
>  I recently jumped into paintball.  The first time I went out I HAD to play more.
>So I immediatly went and bought a Paintgun.  It is called a Grey
>Ghost by Paint Connection in Miramar California.  By the way,

The Grey Ghost is made by LAPCO (Los Angelos Paintball Company). 
Paintball Connection is a dealer of the gun, they don't make the Grey
Ghost.  Bet they're flattered to hear that you think they did.

>  any help or experience would be appreciated. > >

Practice properly pumping & chambering the gun and you'll discover the
ball breakage problem will disappear.

> Oh, yes, the gun is an autococker, and does shoot well under rapid 
>fire mode on a week old CO2 cartridge. (at 280-290 fps) >

The Grey Ghost is not an autococker.  It has a autotrigger when used
properly will be as effective as any semi.


-- 
" I am from the planet Larson on the far side of the Galaxy" said the
space cow invading St. Canard -Dark Wing Duck

HenryC@Panix.Com
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From: pdkittle@oregon.uoregon.edu (P Kittle)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: APG
Message-ID: <pdkittle-210493125533@emu-mac32.uoregon.edu>
Date: 21 Apr 93 21:04:30 GMT
Followup-To: alt.sport.paintball
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
Lines: 7
NNTP-Posting-Host: emu-mac32.uoregon.edu

I haven't been reading APG for about a year now because I got so sick of
reading about how Randy Kamiya thinks he's the god of paintball. Anyone
else have the same opinion? Maybe the publication has improved. I'd like to
hear others' opinions on this.


Peter Kittle
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Path: news.lth.se!sunic!pipex!uunet!uunet.ca!canrem!dosgate!dosgate![peter.baliunas@canrem.com]
From: "peter baliunas" <peter.baliunas@canrem.com>
Subject: re: apg
Message-ID: <1993Apr25.4996.3730@dosgate>
Reply-To: "peter baliunas" <peter.baliunas@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 25 Apr 93 15:17:08 EST
Lines: 23

 In article: <pdkittle-210493125533@emu-mac32.uoregon.edu>
 pdkittle@oregon.uoregon.edu (P Kittle), writes:

 PK> I haven't been reading APG for about a year now because I got so sick
 PK> of reading about how Randy Kamiya thinks he's the god of paintball.
 PK> Anyone else have the same opinion? Maybe the publication has improved.
 PK> I'd like to hear others' opinions on this.

 No, it's still about the same.  As for Randy, you can never trust a word he
 says.  In the December '92 issue he went on about the Stingray as if it was
 the greatest thing to hit paintball since the semi.  I kind of knew that was
 the angle the article would take after reading the teaser in the contents
 that called Brass Eagle "one of the oldest and most respected manufacturers
 of paintguns in the world..."	Most respected?  Who does he think he is 
 kidding?  Even though they are in Mississauga (the same as I am), and I feel
 that I should support local business whenever possible,  I would never buy
 a Brass Eagle gun until they get some consistant quality.


___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--
Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario
416-629-7000/629-7044
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From: ac118@Freenet.carleton.ca (Mitch Sprague)
Subject: Re: Good, cheap gun and paintball catalogs
Message-ID: <1993Apr26.024838.3578@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: ac118@Freenet.carleton.ca (Mitch Sprague)
Organization: The National Capital Freenet
References: <C60L7E.1yH@panix.com> <1ra4u8$at1@nwfocus.wa.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 02:48:38 GMT
Lines: 27


In a previous article, henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan) says:

>renters.  A good goggle/head system like the JT Crossfire can mean the
>difference between coming back to play again and ending up in emergency
>room.  Guns are nice, but goggles are essential to safe play.  Get the
>goggles before getting a gun.
>
Hi Henry.  I agree with everything you had to say until the silly
"emergency room" statement.  D'oh!  If you play at a field with proper gun
velocity rules and enforcement why would a full system be necessary?  I
play at a field that uses Woodstock masks and simple(but safe) goggles and
in the NINE years he's been in operation I doubt if one "emergency room"
trip has been made.  I use a JT Snapper mask/goggle setup and have never
had any reason to need more.  If the field you play at makes you feel a
full head/mask setup is necessary to avoid the emergency room visits then
I would suggest a trip to another field!  Cheers! TIP#046

-- 
|Mitch Sprague                  |"That's kidstuff......         |
|ac118@freenet.carleton.ca      |      .......crazy stuff"      |
|ub445@freenet.victoria.bc.ca   |                 *Ren Hoek     |
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Path: news.lth.se!sunic!uunet!uchinews!linac!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!ux4.cso.uiuc.edu!gsimons
From: gsimons@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Geoffrey W Simons)
Subject: FAQ???Where do I get one?
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 18:33:50 GMT
Message-ID: <C63swF.8Lt@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 8

I was just interested in getting the FAQ....nothing else really except...

Is paintball the game where you run around the woods with a paintball gun,
and shoot other people, ect.?

-Geoff Simons
gsimons@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu

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From: henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan)
Subject: Re: APG
Message-ID: <C63oMH.BMp@panix.com>
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
References: <pdkittle-210493125533@emu-mac32.uoregon.edu>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 17:01:28 GMT
Lines: 20

In article <pdkittle-210493125533@emu-mac32.uoregon.edu> pdkittle@oregon.uoregon.edu (P Kittle) writes:
>I haven't been reading APG for about a year now because I got so sick of
>reading about how Randy Kamiya thinks he's the god of paintball. Anyone
>else have the same opinion? Maybe the publication has improved. I'd like to
>hear others' opinions on this.
>
And all this time I thought the Master God of Paintball was Steve
Davidson of Paintball Sports Monthly.  (^-^)

APG is still the most colorful paintgun catalog from So. Cal that I have
ever seen.  As for their gun reviews, you have to read between the lines.

There are other quality alternative to APG such as Paintcheck
International and Paintball Consumer Reports.  APG is still leads in terms
of having the fewest typos and bad grammar.


-- 
Expect more from us.					HenryC@Panix.Com

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From: ddhale@carson.u.washington.edu (David Hale)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: *PAINTBALL*
Message-ID: <1rh8v0INNpl8@shelley.u.washington.edu>
Date: 26 Apr 93 21:41:42 GMT
Sender: magnum@mimsy.umd.edu
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 17
Approved: gun-control@cs.umd.edu

I'm looking for people who have their own paintball guns and are interested
in getting together for a relatively simple and small game now and then.  I'd
prefer pump-only guns, please (any kind, just not semi-auto).

Already there are four of us who get together on some wooded land in either
the Burien area or the Renton area, but 2-on-2 is a little tough.  We're
thinking that at least 5-on-5 would be good.  The nice thing is that there
are no field fees and we can play as long as we want, whenever we want.

If you have your own gun then you don't have to worry about renting (and it's
cheaper in the long run -- play four times at an organized field and you could 
have purchased your own gun!) 
 
If interested send email to:  hale@olive.astro.washington.edu



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From: jbourgui@ucs.indiana.edu (Opso Lopso)
Subject: Re: FAQ???Where do I get one?
Message-ID: <jbourgui-260493194545@imu056-726186.ucs.indiana.edu>
Followup-To: alt.sport.paintball
Sender: news@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: imu056-726186.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University
References: <C63swF.8Lt@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 00:47:11 GMT
Lines: 20

In article <C63swF.8Lt@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, gsimons@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu
(Geoffrey W Simons) wrote:
> 
> I was just interested in getting the FAQ....nothing else really except...
> 
> Is paintball the game where you run around the woods with a paintball gun,
> and shoot other people, ect.?
> 
> -Geoff Simons
> gsimons@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu


yep!  try it.... it's fun as hell, man.....  

																																																			-- joe
-----
jbourgui@ucs.indiana.edu
"Hey, Joe.... Where ya goin' with that painball gun in your hand??"

																																											-- Jimi Hendrix (kinda)
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From: henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan)
Subject: Re: Good, cheap gun and paintball catalogs
Message-ID: <C6472C.4nt@panix.com>
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
References: <C60L7E.1yH@panix.com> <1ra4u8$at1@nwfocus.wa.com> <1993Apr26.024838.3578@freenet.carleton.ca>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 23:39:47 GMT
Lines: 36

In article <1993Apr26.024838.3578@freenet.carleton.ca> ac118@Freenet.carleton.ca (Mitch Sprague) writes:
>
>In a previous article, henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan) says:
>
>>renters.  A good goggle/head system like the JT Crossfire can mean the
>>difference between coming back to play again and ending up in emergency
>>room.  Guns are nice, but goggles are essential to safe play.  Get the
>>goggles before getting a gun.
>>
>Hi Henry.  I agree with everything you had to say until the silly
>"emergency room" statement.  D'oh!  If you play at a field with proper gun
>velocity rules and enforcement why would a full system be necessary?  I
>play at a field that uses Woodstock masks and simple(but safe) goggles and

Ever consider the possibility of unprotected ear and temple shots? 
Considering the amount of firepower availible, lighting up someone is
sometimes hard to control.

On another network, I read about an instance where a player down cold
after being hit on the temple.  There were people trained in first aid to
revive the player, and it may have been a freak accident, but stuff like
this happen.

For the new player, maximum head protection is essential.  He/she may not
have the experience to avoid nasty hits, ie  avoid charging into a doorway
covered by 5 automags or other situations where multiple hits are likely.

The IPPA waiver state the possibility of death while playing the
game. This may be considered going overboard, nevertheless practicing CYA
(covering your assets) is prudent in this day and age of lawsuits.  Better
safe than sorry.


-- 
Expect more from us.					HenryC@Panix.Com

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From: cosette@cis.umassd.edu (Maya K. Robertson)
Subject: Re: FAQ???Where do I get one?
Message-ID: <C65AKs.Hpo@umassd.edu>
Sender: usenet@umassd.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Massachusetts Dartmouth
References: <C63swF.8Lt@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 13:53:16 GMT
Lines: 13

In <C63swF.8Lt@news.cso.uiuc.edu> gsimons@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Geoffrey W Simons) writes:

>I was just interested in getting the FAQ....nothing else really except...

>Is paintball the game where you run around the woods with a paintball gun,
>and shoot other people, ect.?

>-Geoff Simons
>gsimons@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu
Yes it is...It is a BLAST (no pun intended) I am a 20 year old Female that plays. I have been playing for about 2 years off and on..:)
See ya on the flip side..:)
--Duckie = Cosette@cis.umassd.edu
"see even females play PaintBall...:) 
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From: Steve_Hyden@vos.stratus.com
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: Bottles
Date: 27 Apr 1993 14:49:22 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Marlboro Ma.
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <1rjh5i$j2r@transfer.stratus.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: m72.eng.stratus.com




Hello,Could someone please tell me the differance between a siphon 
and a anti-siphon valve,advantages / disavantages of both.


Thanks,
Steve Hyden
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Path: news.lth.se!sunic!mcsun!uknet!bnr.co.uk!bnrgate!nott!torn!blaze.trentu.ca!trentu.ca!jmajor
From: jmajor@trentu.ca (Jason Major)
Subject: SEMI 4 SALE !!!!
Message-ID: <27APR199315115383@trentu.ca>
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Sender: news@trentu.ca (USENET News System)
Organization: Trent Computing and Telecommunications Department
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 20:11:00 GMT
Lines: 29

	**********************************************************
		
			SEMI-AUTOMATIC PAINTBALL WEAPON

                                  FOR SALE   

	**********************************************************


	Broke university student needs to eat......
	Would rather sell his beloved 'PRO/AM' than have to use it to 
	hold up a lemonaid stand.

1 Tippmann Pro/Am Semi automatic
1 7 oz. CA tank

(may sell mask if interested parties need complete equipment)
(JT snapper (green) with visor)

140 round bulk loader
Comes complete with it's own attractive carrying case!!!!!
Also comes with video tape from Tippmann with details on cleaning, etc.
Used for 1 1/2 season with no problems.

best offer closest to 400 Canadian Loonies takes it all
all in terested can e-mail (quickly please i am not here for much longer)
reply to JMAJOR@TRENTU.CA
thanks in advance

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From: ()
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: APG
Followup-To: alt.sport.paintball
Date: 27 Apr 1993 23:47:42 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
Lines: 17
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <1rkgmu$qvl@pith.uoregon.edu>
References: <pdkittle-210493125533@emu-mac32.uoregon.edu> <C63oMH.BMp@panix.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: emu-mac28.uoregon.edu

In article <C63oMH.BMp@panix.com>, henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan) wrote:


> There are other quality alternative to APG such as Paintcheck
> International and Paintball Consumer Reports.  APG is still leads in terms
> of having the fewest typos and bad grammar.
> 

I've never heard of Paintball Consumer Reports--except for references I
took to be facetious on this list. What's the address, etc.? 

BTW, do you mean above that APG leads in _having_ or _not having_ bad
grammar? I've always thought it was atrocious, personally.

Peter Kittle

pdkittle@oregon.uoregon.edu
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From: dwboyce@acsu.buffalo.edu (Doug Boyce)
Subject: Re: Sin City Semi Review (Long Post)
Message-ID: <C66C8s.8sA@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Sender: nntp@acsu.buffalo.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: autarch.acsu.buffalo.edu
Organization: University at Buffalo
References: <1993Apr17.032923.20627@unlv.edu>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 03:26:52 GMT
Lines: 36

           Hello paintball players, 

  After reading this article on paintball guns and the reviews, I decided
it was time to post to this group and provide you with some first hand
experience. First off - ever heard of Cooper-T products? I work and
play with them. Second - all of these guns you listed have pros and cons.
Semi autos are nice, but tournaments I attend(about 80 -90 a year) have
just proven that the semi auto has become a paint "hose". 1000 shots
in a 5 man game? I have played since 1983 and been involved with Cooper
 T for 4 years now. I have used every gun out their, and each has a good
and bad point(s). The Automag is a good gun, but lacks distance. The 
autococker can be really tricked out nice, but speed is lacking. There
are alot of good guns and alot of bad guns. I have never found a quality
brass eagle gun for the money. I find sterlings to be quite nice, but
each gun (by any manufacture) needs to be fine tuned. How many of you
own  PMI3's? How many auto in cold weather? How much did you pay?
We manufacture after market parts and upgrades for various products.
We have a PMI3 outdistancing AUtomags and out firing Autocockers.
All with a drop in kit. I'm sure someone out there has one. What do
you think of it? I was playing with indian springs staffers last
year and was outdistancing all of them. I just think that people
should define their role in paintball before deciding what gun to buy.
It is a rather large investment. Some guns are accurate, and others
aren't even in the ball park. I have the unique pleasure of using
most every gun that comes out and trying every little gadget. Just
beware and choose intelligently. If you would like more info or 
to get a catalog of our products, call (716) 549-5730 and ask for
Chauncey or Jeff. We have alot of new products coming out than
cost alot less than a total new gun.

                                   See you in the neutral zone

                                              Kevin

-- 
Doug Boyce    dwboyce@acsu.buffalo.edu
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From: s14828jg@smucs1.umassd.edu
Subject: Re: FAQ???Where do I get one?
Message-ID: <C673rB.LLp@umassd.edu>
Sender: usenet@umassd.edu (USENET News System)
Reply-To: s14828jg@smucs1.umassd.edu
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
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Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 13:21:09 GMT
Lines: 11

In article <C63swF.8Lt@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, gsimons@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Geoffrey W Simons) writes:
>I was just interested in getting the FAQ....nothing else really except...
>
>Is paintball the game where you run around the woods with a paintball gun,
>and shoot other people, ect.?
 Yes, you run around and paint your freinds.  Its a wild thing to do in 
 your spare time, relieves the stress of college.
>
>-Geoff Simons
>gsimons@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu
>
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From: justin@seas.smu.edu (Justin Anderson)
Subject: Re: Sin City Semi Review (Long Post)
Message-ID: <1993Apr28.150915.2957@seas.smu.edu>
Sender: news@seas.smu.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: quick_f.seas.smu.edu
Organization: School of Engineering and applied science; S.M.U.; Dallas, Tx
References: <1993Apr17.032923.20627@unlv.edu> <C66C8s.8sA@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 15:09:15 GMT
Lines: 21

In article <C66C8s.8sA@acsu.buffalo.edu> dwboyce@acsu.buffalo.edu (Doug Boyce) writes:
>           Hello paintball players, 
>
>own  PMI3's? How many auto in cold weather? How much did you pay?
>We manufacture after market parts and upgrades for various products.
>We have a PMI3 outdistancing AUtomags and out firing Autocockers.
>All with a drop in kit. I'm sure someone out there has one. What do

      Too bad it doesnt outshoot Automags and outdistance Autocockers!


>
>                                   See you in the neutral zone
>
>                                              Kevin
>
>-- 
>Doug Boyce    dwboyce@acsu.buffalo.edu

  Justin

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From: anovak@twain.ucs.umass.edu (Tree Hugger)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball
Subject: 1/2 an answer to FAQ??? post?
Date: 28 Apr 93 12:40:29
Organization: /usr/users/user3/anovak/.organization
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Message-ID: <ANOVAK.93Apr28124029@twain.ucs.umass.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: twain.ucs.umass.edu

	I've noticed a couple of posts in response to the question of
"what is paintball" and "where do I find a FAQ list" but the answers
only confirm that paintball is a game where you shoot your friends
w/paint.  Will someone please post and say either that there IS a FAQ
or there ISN'T a FAQ?  
	I've been reading this group for some time, on and off, and
it's bothersome.  I would really like to see a good list of common
games and stuff.  I've pb'd with USI (POOR management, but a nice
indoor), and with Canobie in NH with the Wild Geese, and they're
pretty friendly.  I can get my tips from there, but a FAQ would be
nice.  Hints that state that it's not the flourescent paint on your
barrel that lets them see you, but  the movement you make (even
camoflauged) that gives you away.  Basically, a soldier of fortune
FAQ.  And maybe some answers as to (mathematically) how much you give
up in accuracy when you go for distance in some guns, the CO2 release
rates, the arguement over whether a smart-parts kit is better than a
V-cut (sorry, I don't know the term) like the Automag has, field
assembly, the NEED for field assembly, why tiger-stripe camo is worse
than regular camo, etc.  I know some of these answers myself but any
suggestions as to where to find the rest would be great!

	Please Post!
			-Tree
--
	-=I    Tree    I=-         a.k.a. Andy Novak
anovak@titan.ucs.umass.edu ______/ =================
==========================/
"All the world's a stage, and we are all but players."
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Path: news.lth.se!sunic!mcsun!uknet!bnr.co.uk!bnrgate!nott!torn!utnut!cs.utexas.edu!convex!convex!rotheroe
From: rotheroe@convex.com (Dave Rotheroe)
Subject: Re: 1/2 an answer to FAQ??? post?
Sender: usenet@news.eng.convex.com (news access account)
Message-ID: <rotheroe.736024119@convex.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 19:08:39 GMT
References: <ANOVAK.93Apr28124029@twain.ucs.umass.edu>
Nntp-Posting-Host: neptune.convex.com
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.
Lines: 22

> Will someone please post and say either that there IS a FAQ
> or there ISN'T a FAQ?  

Ok, I'll bite.  There are several FAQs.  There is a general paintball
FAQ, an equipment FAQ, and a Team Internet FAQ (and possibly others.
I don't know who posts the first two, but it's near the end of the
month, so I'll go ahead and post the Team Internet FAQ.

On a related topic, We may need to generate a seperate FAQ section on
net-friendly businesses.  So far there are two main ones (Hamilton
Hobbies first, followed by Draco), and a couple of others who's prices
and service have yet to be proven.  If you've ordered from someone after
hearing about them on the net, and I haven't yet individually asked you
your opinion, please drop me some mail with your experience.  As a
shameless plug, the "net" and Team Internet prices for Hamilton Hobbies
are very good and several people have let me know they had great service
from John (Hamilton).  I have as well.

==================================================================8--<
Dave Rotheroe                rotheroe@convex.com              DoD#0045
CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, TX 75083-3851, (214) 497-4512
Death is a reward for being responsible.                TIP#003 (KotL)
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From: henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan)
Subject: Re: APG
Message-ID: <C67sJG.ArG@panix.com>
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
References: <pdkittle-210493125533@emu-mac32.uoregon.edu> <C63oMH.BMp@panix.com> <1rkgmu$qvl@pith.uoregon.edu>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 22:16:27 GMT
Lines: 21

In article <1rkgmu$qvl@pith.uoregon.edu> () writes:
>
>I've never heard of Paintball Consumer Reports--except for references I
>took to be facetious on this list. What's the address, etc.? 

Paintball Consumer Reports International
4015 Chain Bridge Road
Suite #7
Fairfax, VA 22030
(703) 385-0144, 691-2094

>
>BTW, do you mean above that APG leads in _having_ or _not having_ bad
>grammar? I've always thought it was atrocious, personally.

APG published articles seem to have more polished style of writing.


-- 
Expect more from us.					HenryC@Panix.Com

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From: ac118@Freenet.carleton.ca (Mitch Sprague)
Subject: Re: Good, cheap gun and paintball catalogs
Message-ID: <1993Apr29.211406.5247@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: ac118@Freenet.carleton.ca (Mitch Sprague)
Organization: The National Capital Freenet
References: <C6472C.4nt@panix.com> <C60L7E.1yH@panix.com> <1ra4u8$at1@nwfocus.wa.com> <1993Apr26.024838.3578@freenet.carleton.ca>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 21:14:06 GMT
Lines: 62


In a previous article, henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan) says:

>In article <1993Apr26.024838.3578@freenet.carleton.ca> ac118@Freenet.carleton.ca (Mitch Sprague) writes:
>>
>>In a previous article, henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan) says:
>>
>>>renters.  A good goggle/head system like the JT Crossfire can mean the
>>>difference between coming back to play again and ending up in emergency
>>>room.  Guns are nice, but goggles are essential to safe play.  Get the
>>>goggles before getting a gun.
>>>
>>Hi Henry.  I agree with everything you had to say until the silly
>>"emergency room" statement.  D'oh!  If you play at a field with proper gun
>>velocity rules and enforcement why would a full system be necessary?  I
>>play at a field that uses Woodstock masks and simple(but safe) goggles and
>
>Ever consider the possibility of unprotected ear and temple shots? 
>Considering the amount of firepower availible, lighting up someone is
>sometimes hard to control.
>
>On another network, I read about an instance where a player down cold
>after being hit on the temple.  There were people trained in first aid to
>revive the player, and it may have been a freak accident, but stuff like
>this happen.
>
>For the new player, maximum head protection is essential.  He/she may not
>have the experience to avoid nasty hits, ie  avoid charging into a doorway
>covered by 5 automags or other situations where multiple hits are likely.
>
>The IPPA waiver state the possibility of death while playing the
>game. This may be considered going overboard, nevertheless practicing CYA
>(covering your assets) is prudent in this day and age of lawsuits.  Better
>safe than sorry.
>
>
>-- 
>Expect more from us.					HenryC@Panix.Com
>
>
Hi again Henry, how's it going.  I still have to disagree with you. 
You've said it yourself when you said "freak accident".  You can't give
people the impression that if they don't use full head protection a trip
to the "emergency room" is in the works.  All that does is frighten away
potential players and give non-players ammunition to slam the sport. 
Granted, there are risks involved but then people conciously hurl
themselves along our highways at 50-60 mph.  They are aware of the risks
and take the necessary safety precautions.  BUT, not every driver will be
killed or even injured while driving so you can't suggest that if you
don't wear full head gear you will end up in the emergeny room.  Oh, and
one last point, if it takes FIVE guys with Automags to cover one
doorway.....well, need I say more?  I think you should come up here and
play with us for a few weekends.  The invitation is always open!  Seeya Henry!
-- 
|Mitch Sprague                  |"That's kidstuff......         |
|ac118@freenet.carleton.ca      |      .......crazy stuff"      |
|ub445@freenet.victoria.bc.ca   |                 *Ren Hoek     |
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From: eitzen@cs.UAlberta.CA (Rob Eitzen)
Subject: CO2 modifications-please read
Message-ID: <eitzen.736157260@cab115>
Sender: news@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca
Nntp-Posting-Host: cab115.cs.ualberta.ca
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 08:07:40 GMT
Lines: 14


I'm tired of running out of air in the middle of the day and paying $4
for a simple 7oz. tank.  Would it be possible to overfill the tank above
7oz?  What is important is whether the gun (F1-Illustrator) is
self-regulating or not.  Can anyone tell me?
Also, I would like to go with compressed air instead of CO2.  I have a
source for air, but not CO2.  Is this possible?
Thanks.

--
Judge Dredd   -   DoD # 268
eitzen@cs.ualberta.ca 
Opinions expressed are those of the person who hacked into my
account; I would never say anything so stupid...
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From: wilsonm@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Subject: Re: CO2 modifications-please read
Message-ID: <1993Apr30.075511.1@vaxb.acs.unt.edu>
Lines: 23
Sender: usenet@mercury.unt.edu (UNT USENet Adminstrator)
Organization: University of North Texas
References: <eitzen.736157260@cab115>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 13:55:11 GMT

In article <eitzen.736157260@cab115>, eitzen@cs.UAlberta.CA (Rob Eitzen) writes:
> 
> I'm tired of running out of air in the middle of the day and paying $4
> for a simple 7oz. tank.  Would it be possible to overfill the tank above
> 7oz?  What is important is whether the gun (F1-Illustrator) is
> self-regulating or not.  Can anyone tell me?
> Also, I would like to go with compressed air instead of CO2.  I have a
> source for air, but not CO2.  Is this possible?
> Thanks.

Buy a 20oz.  I had simular problems for the longest... Cept I had to fill my
7oz after almost every game...  Now with a 20 oz I have to fill up about every
other game.  This is an extreem though, most people can fill up once to 2 times
a day using a 20 (depending on the person).

I have seen a botton get over filled, and I have seen them blow (i.e. seal on
the tank)... but I generally get my 20oz over filled by about 3 oz's.

IF 4 dollars is a little high for you to pay maybe paintball is not a good
sport for ya... :(  After all pball is NOT a poor mans sport.  Lord knows I
wish it was!


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From: GLOCK@chip.cba.ufl.edu (Joseph R. Granto)
Newsgroups: alt.sport.paintball,rec.sport.paintball
Subject: SuperCocker
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 13:50:37 GMT
Organization: College of Business, University of Florida
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <GLOCK.263.736177837@chip.cba.ufl.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: glock.cba.ufl.edu

Well, I took advantage of John Hamilton's offer to get an AutoCocker.  This 
was an upgrade from a VM-68 with a Smart Parts barrel.

Now, I really love my VM-68.  It NEVER let me down; it NEVER malfunctioned 
during a game and it rarely broke paint.  It hated cold weather, however.

What is this so-called "SuperCocker?"  Well, it is an AutoCocker with an 
expainsion chamber setup (bottom line), new regulator, custom trigger, 
and ball detent.  To this I added a motor loader, an Armson barrel, and a 
TASCO .22 sight.

Initial impressions: it LOOKS outrageouly nasty.  It is all black and high 
tech looking.  It weighs as much as my VM-68, but I don't care.  First, I 
never thought the weight of the VM-68 was a problem.  Second, the 
SuperCocker is MUCH better balanced than my VM-68 (which had a 10oz on the 
front, and was VERY front heavy).  The SuperCocker is thus a two handed 
weapon.  A remote line might make it weildable in one hand, but why bother?  
One handed shots are going to be less accurate, you won't fire as fast, etc.

Taking the gun out an wasting garbage cans was fun.  The gun is LOUD.  It 
has a very distinct sound.  The worked trigger allows an outrageous firing 
rate; my AutoMag friend was impressed, although I doubt he will say it would 
fire faster than his 'Mag...  It will be a close race, and I can't wait to 
do some comparison testing.  The gun did not break paint until I screwed 
with the cocking rod.  It was VERY simple to clean.

As far as accuracy, I really cannot tell yet.  My paint is really old and 
partially separated.  Thus, they fly like frisbees.

I can't wait to go and actually PLAY with it; this will have to wait until
after graduation.  I will post later on its performance.

By the way, John Hamilton was VERY helpful over the phone.  The directions 
on how to adjust the regulator are in the manual, but very new to me.  I 
called John on his 800 number and he spent 15 minutes or so talking me 
through it, telling me where to lube it, etc.  He also replies to my email 
questions promptly.






Joe

****************************************************************
**                 GLOCK@chip.cba.ufl.edu                     **
**                                                            **
**     "When the going gets tough, the tough get a GLOCK."    **
****************************************************************
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Path: news.lth.se!sunic!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!mercury.unt.edu!vaxb.acs.unt.edu!wilsonm
From: wilsonm@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Subject: Re: SuperCocker
Message-ID: <1993Apr30.093739.1@vaxb.acs.unt.edu>
Lines: 15
Sender: usenet@mercury.unt.edu (UNT USENet Adminstrator)
Organization: University of North Texas
References: <GLOCK.263.736177837@chip.cba.ufl.edu>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 15:37:39 GMT

In article <GLOCK.263.736177837@chip.cba.ufl.edu>, GLOCK@chip.cba.ufl.edu (Joseph R. Granto) writes:
> What is this so-called "SuperCocker?"  Well, it is an AutoCocker with an 
> expainsion chamber setup (bottom line), new regulator, custom trigger, 
> and ball detent.  To this I added a motor loader, an Armson barrel, and a 
> TASCO .22 sight.

How much does it cost?  What type of trigger mod is it?  I mean what does it
do?  I have heard of a trigger mod that does not require you to release 
the trigger to make the AC cock (if you pull the trigger and do not release
the gun will be "open" for balls to fall it...)  This would seem to
stop my double feed problem (slow release on the trigger).

What is a ball detent?  

Mike
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From: cyoon@utdallas.edu (CHANG K YOON)
Subject: Re: CO2 modifications-please read
Message-ID: <C6AxJo.5r7@utdallas.edu>
Sender: usenet@utdallas.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: apache.utdallas.edu
Organization: Univ. of Texas at Dallas
References: <eitzen.736157260@cab115>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 14:57:24 GMT
Lines: 26

In article <eitzen.736157260@cab115> eitzen@cs.UAlberta.CA (Rob Eitzen) writes:
>
>I'm tired of running out of air in the middle of the day and paying $4
>for a simple 7oz. tank.  Would it be possible to overfill the tank above
>7oz?  What is important is whether the gun (F1-Illustrator) is
>self-regulating or not.  Can anyone tell me?
>Also, I would like to go with compressed air instead of CO2.  I have a
>source for air, but not CO2.  Is this possible?
>Thanks.
>
>--
>Judge Dredd   -   DoD # 268
>eitzen@cs.ualberta.ca 
>Opinions expressed are those of the person who hacked into my
>account; I would never say anything so stupid...

The problem with over filling a tank is that over time, the tank would be
stressed out and would need to be replaced.  Also, the chance of the tank
exploding is increased dramatically.  So, IMHO, _DON'T EVER OVER FILL A TANK_.
Just my $0.02 worth.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chang Yoon                            |  "Our children know EVERYTHING, we
cyoon@utdallas.edu                    |   have cable." - Ms. Penbroke, C 'n C
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: rotheroe@convex.com (Dave Rotheroe)
Subject: Re: Good, cheap gun and paintball catalogs
Sender: usenet@news.eng.convex.com (news access account)
Message-ID: <rotheroe.736182240@convex.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 15:04:00 GMT
References: <C6472C.4nt@panix.com> <C60L7E.1yH@panix.com> <1ra4u8$at1@nwfocus.wa.com> <1993Apr26.024838.3578@freenet.carleton.ca> <1993Apr29.211406.5247@freenet.carleton.ca>
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Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
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Lines: 63

(Mitch Sprague) writes:
>In a previous article, henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan) says:
>>(Mitch Sprague) writes:
>>>In a previous article, henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan) says:

>>>>renters.  A good goggle/head system like the JT Crossfire can mean the
>>>>difference between coming back to play again and ending up in emergency
>>>>room.  Guns are nice, but goggles are essential to safe play.  Get the
>>>>goggles before getting a gun.

>>>Hi Henry.  I agree with everything you had to say until the silly
>>>"emergency room" statement.  D'oh!  If you play at a field with proper gun
>>>velocity rules and enforcement why would a full system be necessary?  I
>>>play at a field that uses Woodstock masks and simple(but safe) goggles and

>>Ever consider the possibility of unprotected ear and temple shots? 
>>Considering the amount of firepower availible, lighting up someone is
>>sometimes hard to control.
>>
>>On another network, I read about an instance where a player down cold
>>after being hit on the temple.  There were people trained in first aid to
>>revive the player, and it may have been a freak accident, but stuff like
>>this happen.
>>
>>For the new player, maximum head protection is essential.  He/she may not
>>have the experience to avoid nasty hits, ie  avoid charging into a doorway
>>covered by 5 automags or other situations where multiple hits are likely.

>Hi again Henry, how's it going.  I still have to disagree with you. 
>You've said it yourself when you said "freak accident".  You can't give
>people the impression that if they don't use full head protection a trip
>to the "emergency room" is in the works.  All that does is frighten away
>potential players and give non-players ammunition to slam the sport. 

Gee, can I be crazy enough to join this discussion?  I've always taken
safety seriously, but two incidents have made me even more safety conscious.

The first occasion, while I was stalking one game, my prey walked out and
gave me a clean shot at his side from 30 feet.  I fired a single shot that
curved horribly due a previous barrel break, and hit him directly in the
ear.  He went down like I'd shot him with a real bullet, and was taken
immediately to the emergency room in intense pain.  He could bairly hear
anything in the ear for a couple of days, but fortunatly fully recovered.
The gun chrononed at only around 250.  This is the kind of accident that can
be avoided only by using safety equipment - a shot the the ear, temple,
groin, ... cannot be prevented from happening.  The people in the emergency
room did not have a good view of paintball when we left (just imagine the
scene of 4 people in camo's carrying the "victim" in).

On another occasion at a different field, a semi was sitting on a bench in
the staging area with no one too near it when it went auto by itself,
striking one person in the butt a few times from about 7-10 feet before they
were able to get out of the way or someone got to the gun.  Fortunately
there was only one (very) sore butt and a couple of other hits, but it could
have been a lot worse.  Barrel plugs, which were few and far between before,
are now manditory and enforced.

Dave

==================================================================8--<
Dave Rotheroe                rotheroe@convex.com              DoD#0045
CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, TX 75083-3851, (214) 497-4512
Death is a reward for being responsible.                TIP#003 (KotL)
