o
Subject: rec.sport.disc FAQ (4/5) Cleats and Medical
Date: 4 Jan 1996 22:22:55 GMT

Rec-sport-disc-archive-name: faq-part4
Posting-Frequency: monthly

rec.sport.disc FAQ (4/5) Cleats and Medical

===================================================================

Table of Contents:

 *    Indicates new or vastly revised questions

   1)   Footwear
   2)   Visit the Ultimate Doctor
        a)  Pain and Painkillers
        b)  General Injuries
        c)  Tape and Braces
        d)  Shin Splints
        e)  Sprained Ankles
        f)  Knee injuries, the ACL
        g)  Pregnancy

   admin)   FAQ information and administrative swill 
   more faqs)  FAQ Part 1 General Information
   more faqs)  FAQ Part 2 Contacts and Records
   more faqs)  FAQ Part 3 On-line Info Guide
   more faqs)  FAQ Part 5 Disc Golf FAQ's

===================================================================

 1)  Footwear
        a) Nike Sharks, etc..
        b) Survey.
        b) Mail Order.
        c) Bunions and Shoes.


    There are a lot of shoes out there, and a lot of opinions about them.
    Models of shoes come and go, opinions change.  I've included some
    excerpts from discussions of the topic.  New information, especially
    if summarized, is welcome.

    Generally, you want to consider durability of the shoe and cleat,
    how hard the cleat grabs, high-top or low-top, overall comfort.


    a) Nike Sharks, etc. 

    Phillip N Price <price@carla.lbl.gov> writes:
    Many players like soccer-style shoes, which do not have cleats at
    the edges of the shoe and which (usually) have cleats that are
    circular in cross-section.  I don't like those shoes (they make me
    feel wobbly), so I don't use them and can't recommend one type over
    another.

    I favor shoes that have cleats all the way at the edges. The
    edge cleats are generally rectangular in cross-section, perhaps
    with some odd-shaped protruberances. Inner cleats may be round,
    triangular, or other, depending on brand.

    Of this latter type, the premier example used to be Nike Sharks.
    Available in high, mid, and low-tops, these were the shoe of 
    choice among Ultimate players when I started playing in the
    mid 1980's.  Unfortunately, the method of joining sole to upper
    was changed around 1990 or 1991, and the new method is not nearly
    as reliable---I, and most of my Sharks-wearing friends, were 
    plagued by "blow-outs" (separation of sole and upper at points
    of high stress), and I no longer wear Sharks. [Also, they've gotten
    much more expensive than they used to be.]

    After trying several types of Sharks-type shoes, I've settled on
    Reebok Pit Bulls as a replacement.  These are very similar to 
    the original Nike Sharks, are relatively inexpensive, and are
    fairly durable. 

    Thomas Griesbaum writes:
    The Land Shark model was really durable: stitches would last and most
    important the cleats would not break.  Some time later the Boss Shark
    was introduced (with a red/black sole). With most shoes exposed cleats
    (depending on your running style) would break and I also saw problems
    with stitches and even other parts of the shoe tearing.

    Maurice Cinquini writes:
    Beware, in my opinion, use of sharks and other shoes with extra grip and
    large leverage on ankles contribute to the large number of knee and ankle
    injuries we have in the sport. The other major factor is the `cuts'
    players are encouraged to do.  New players especially, have not had the
    time to strenghen the muscles to support these joints

    Date: Tue,  9 Mar 1993 12:27:31 -0500
    From: "Matthew S. Weiss" <mwaa+@andrew.cmu.edu>
    Subject: Re: Ultimate Footware

    On 08-Mar-93 in Re: Ultimate Footware
    user hinkamp@cc.usu.edu writes:
    Since I'd like to see some discussion on the topic, I'll post
    this. I think soccer shoes are the perfect shoes for ultimate.
    Infact I'd like to see the UPA limit legal footwear to
    molded type soccer cleats. Soccer leagues limit toe cleats
    for the same reason the UPA should, they are a hazard to players.
    Some of the football and "shark" spikes woren by players now are
    a hazard in close play (i.e. stepping on and kicking people).
    my only problem with soccer cleats is that I have not found a good
    high top pair.

    [Replying to the above:]
    Oy vey!  After a year of foot cramps, blisters and shin splints caused
    by (some fairly expensive) soccer cleats, I finally found podiatric
    bliss in Nike SHARKS and you want to take them away?!?  My girlfriend
    has said I have, and this is a direct quote "the feet of a beast" (I
    won't mention what she thinks of my table manners).  She's right,
    though.  They're flat as boards.  Almost splayed.  They are
    architecturally unsound.  Those big, wide SHARKS are the most
    comfortable shoes I can find to play in.

    Seriously, I haven't found them to be more or less dangerous than other
    shoes.  It's FEET that do the stomping, not shoes.  Molded soccer cleats
    can hurt a hell of a lot if they stomp on your foot, and I would argue
    that the cleats on the SHARK are a little softer and less harmful than
    on many soccer shoes.

    Dennis mentions that soccer leagues limit toe cleats, and I think that
    there's a good reason for that, but it doesn't apply to ultimate.
    Soccer players use their feet to kick, as well as run.  That's why so
    many of them wear shin guards.  On the soccer field, a toe cleat IS a
    potentially dangerous weapon. Not so in ultimate.  The only comparable
    action I can think of in ultimate is the footblock, and this is a
    dubious example, at best.  Everyone in soccer kicks.  RELATIVELY few of
    us footblock.  In soccer, players often try to kick into the same space
    at the same time (at a moving target, no less)  The potential for an
    accidental kick is very great.  As we all know, in ultimate, optimally,
    this should not happen with foot and hand.  A legal (and effective)
    footblock should never occupy the thrower's hand space, but a space
    about a foot (no pun intended, I mean twelve inches) upfield.  We all
    know that this doesn't always happen, but the footblock debate is
    apparently one that doesn't need to be revived.  In the latest survey
    report, the newsletter indicated that 85% of respondents favor keeping
    the footblock legal.  The upthrust of all this is simply that I don't
    think the soccer ban on toe cleats is all that relevant when applied to
    our sport.

    Of course no one would favor metal cleats, and if you're gonna have
    screw-ins, the screw has to be in the cleat, not coming out of the shoe
    (so as not to leave a deadly spikey protrusion coming from the sole in
    the event of cleat loss), but aside from that, I suggest, with all due
    respect to my fellow disc players who disagree, that the shoe situation
    is fine as it now "stands."

    Matt Weiss, Mr. Yuk  & Smoked Gouda
    <mwaa+@andrew.cmu.edu>


    b) A Survey 

    From: drewsxpa@salem.intel.com (Paul Drews)
    Subject: Shoes for ultimate survey summary
    Summary: Results of survey of Ultimate shoes
    Date: 1 Jun 92 19:32:20 GMT

    The replies to my "shoes for ultimate" survey seem to have trickled to
    a  halt.   Here  is  the  summary I promised.  I didn't receive enough
    replies   to   justify  drawing  hard  conclusions.   In  addition,  I
    unfortunately  slanted  the original article toward a particular brand
    and model of shoe, which may have colored the results of the survey.
    

    The following chart is an attempt to summarize all of the positive and
    negative comments at a glance.  A notation such as "+n" indicates that
    n  people  found  these  shoes to be desirable in this characteristic,
    "-n"  indicates that n people didn't like it.  I included trimmed down
    copies  of  the  original  posts,  because shoe analysis seems to be a
    subjective thing, and this should help people interpret the results.
    
   
    Shoe     traction  traction  clogging  padding  misc     durability
    name     hard      mud       mud                comfort
    -------  --------  --------  --------  -------  -------  ----------
    Nike Land Shark
.     -1                                     -1       -2
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Nike Grid Shark
.     -1
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Nike Air Shark                                           +1
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Converse Hi-top ??           -1
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Patrick soccer cleats                  -1
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Pony Blaster                           -1       +1       +1
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Converse Starforce Hi-top
.     +1                                              -1
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Adidas Stratos Drive
.     +1        +1        +1                          +1
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Nike Air Slam
.     +1        -1                  -1
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Converse ??                                     -1
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Spot Bilt turf shoe
.     +2        -1
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Umbro cleats
.     +1                                     +1
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
   

    Specific replies follow:

    [...]  I can identify a brand name that produced some shoes similar to
    what  you  described.   I  bought  some out of curiosity last fall and
    loved  them except for one caveat.  If the ground is the least bit wet
    they  muck  up  very  quickly and feel like lead boots.  I'd recommend
    carrying  different  shoes  (like  Sharks or soccer shoes) in the case
    that the ground is wet.  The shoe I got is a Converse (Hi-top model).

    =====================
    My first cleats were Patrick soccer cleats.  'nuff said.  :-(.

    Before  my  ankles  finished falling off, I bought Nike (Land) Sharks,
    vintage  1990.   They were a problem for me because (i) the toe is too
    pointed, making a hard cut a somewhat Procrustean experience (but most
    people  don't have this problem); and (ii) the lugs were too soft, and
    in  a year (playing 3-5 hrs/wk.) I had snapped off four or five of the
    big ones.

    When the problem became too serious to ignore (no lugs on medial right
    heel), I threw 'em out and bought Pony Blasters.  I liked these better
    than  the  Sharks, as they fit my feet well and the lugs were stronger
    (and well-placed); however, they didn't have much padding.

    Eventually  the  Ponies wore out and I bought (on clearance) a pair of
    Converse  Starforce hightops.  The grip is good (but the fields I play
    on  are  now  so hard that it hasn't been tested well); however, after
    about  10  hours of use the leather has split on the medial left heel,
    which bodes ill for their longevity.

    ========================
    [...]  I  will tell you what type of shoes I wear.  I bought a pair of
    Adidas Stratos Drive at the beginning of this year and they are great.
    They  have  long  studs,  which are recommended for soft ground, but I
    think  that  is because they are soccer cleats and soccer players must
    kick  that ball.  I haven't had any trouble with traction and actually
    find that I get better traction than with any other cleat I have worn.
    The  cleats  have  only six studs, two in back and four in front.  All
    the  cleats  I have worn in the past have had something like 10 or 12.
    The  six  studs  really don't pick up any mud, and therefore don't bog
    down  in  mud.   They  are also hard plastic, so they "dig in" in hard
    ground.   They are by far the best cleat I have ever worn.  I ran into
    a  problem  with my other cleats of wearing out after only one year or
    so,  but these are showing absolutely no sign of wear.  They also have
    removable  studs,  so  that you can put in shorter ones if you like or
    replace the ones in there.  They cost around $65, but I think they are
    an excellent deal.


    I  haven't tried a football cleat but I can't imagine anything working
    better  than  the  Stratos  Drive.  Oh yeah, I almost forgot one small
    point  in  all  my  rambling.  The Stratos Drive give me a significant
    jump.   Because  there are only 4 studs in front, I get excellent grip
    on quick accelerations.  I was immediately able to get a great jump on
    even our fastest players after getting these cleats.  But you probably
    should  have  strong ankles if you get these because they are a little
    hard to get used to.

    =====================
    [Ed note:  I stopped in at the Nike store in downtown Portland, Oregon
    (Nike  is based in the Portland area).  A sales clerk told me that the
    Nike  Land  Shark  was  no  longer  made.  It is possible that between
    between me and the clerk some information was garbled, but this agrees
    with  what  I  heard in local shoe stores.  I have been trying several
    times   a   day   to   call   Nike's   Consumer   Information   Center
    (1-800-344-NIKE)  to  check  out  this report and track down some Nike
    Land  Sharks, but the phone is always busy.  They must be swamped with
    customers clamoring for the old Land Sharks :-)]

    =====================
    The  most  common  shoes  on  the  Portland team are probably Nike Air
    Slams.  They are actually softball shoes but they have better traction
    than anything else that we have tried.  The cleats are hard plastic --
    they  have  a  lot  of  "bite"  to  them  but they clog easily in mud.
    Unfortunately  softball is not exactly a high intensity sport so Slams
    don't  have  much  foot, arch or ankle support.  I know two people who
    have  gone  back to Sharks because they got tired of having their feet
    hurt  all  the  time.   Blake Garnard (who plays for Rhino Slam) wears
    Sharks  most  of  the  time  and  only puts his Slams on for semis and
    finals!   I've  never had any pair of cleats last me more than about a
    year, but the Slams have been pretty tough.

    Compared  to  Sharks,  the  Slams  have better traction and seem to be
    tougher,  but  the Sharks give better support and work a little better
    in  the  mud.   If you are going to use either Sharks or Slams and you
    play in the mud then it's a good idea to get some standard soccer type
    cleats for mud and use the other pair in dryer conditions.

    I know a number of people at Nike including several who play Ultimate.
    I  was  talking  to  one of their R&D people (who plays Ultimate) last
    week.  He says that Nike considers Ultimate to be a "closet sport" and
    as  such  they  don't  do any R&D for it.  Nike doesn't make any shoes
    that  are  ideal for Ultimate but Sharks are probably the best overall
    match to our sport out of their line.

    I've only had one pair of cleats that weren't made by Nike.  They were
    made  by  Converse  but  I  can't find a model name or number on them.
    I've  only  worn  them twice.  The back of the heel has a hard plastic
    piece  inside  it  and it isn't the same shape as the back of my heel.
    [...]

    =====================
    [A reply to the above:]
    The  type  of  earth  you play on can make a difference as well.  I've
    never  played on the west coast, but in Florida and North Carolina the
    dirt  is  very sandy and has a lot more give to it than the topsoil of
    the  Midwest.   It  can make a difference in the ideal shoe (I use Air
    Sharks,  BTW,  and  am  quite  happy with them - bought them about six
    months ago and they're holding up fine)

    ======================
    I  just got a new pair of Nike Shark high tops this week.  (btw I have
    not  found  *any*  source  of  high top shoes in Manitoba - had to get
    these brought in from New York).  They are indeed too hard and slip on
    the  hard  ground here.  My favorite Ultimate shoe for dry ground is a
    Spot  Bilt  turf  shoe  (no high top available unfortunately), I don't
    know the exact model name.  this shoe is great for hard ground or good
    grass, but the small cleats hold too much mud when its really wet.

    ======================
    [A reply to the above:]
    Amen!   These  were/are  my favorite ultimate shoes I ever had.  But I
    don't  think  they  exist  anymore  --  no  shoe  salesperson  here in
    SillyPutty  Valley  could  locate  them.  If anyone has any source for
    these, I'd *love* to know where to get some.

    Last  year I had a pair of Umbro cleats (molded); I loved them, but as
    one  of  the earlier posts mentioned, they changed them this year, and
    they  seem  a  little narrower, especially at the toe.  Still, they're
    pretty  comfortable.   I  played  with a pair of Patrick molded cleats
    this  spring, and found them quite good, but I'll switch to the Umbros
    for  summer,  as  the cleats are shorter, and we play on a lot of dry,
    hard fields.


    From: Michael Tor Klawansky <mk34+@andrew.cmu.edu>
    Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 16:50:51 -0400

    I have found one particular mail order company to be pretty darn good.
    Their catalog is very nice.  The offer a wide variety of soccer
    cleats(sorry no Nike-Sharks) and a veritble plethera of other soccer
    stuff(shorts, shirts, extra shoelaces, etc.)  The prices are a little
    on the high side but the best part is the offer overnight delivery for
    only $2.00 above the normal shipping costs.

    The also offer a passback program.  If you have cleats that you no longer
    use ,but are still usable then you can return them tand get a $5.00 credit
    on your next cleat order.  The cleat you returned will then be given
    to poor kids all around the world(mainly for soccer).

    The name and phone number of this company is

    Eurosport
    1-800-934-3876

    I am not a representative of this company just an Ultimate player who
    likes their service.  Just give them a call to get the catalog and check 
    through it.

    Iron "62 mph" Mike


    c) Shoes and Bunions

    I've worn Adidas soccer shoes for many years and have been happy with
    them.  However, a year ago I had to give up the inexpensive kind that 
    are mainly nylon with only a little bit of leather at crucial wear points
    and switch to the all leather kind that cost four times as much.
    The reason was that as I played harder, the force of my foot shifting
    in the shoe caused too much force on the nylon, and that stress had
    to be absorbed by the outside "knuckle" of my big toes.  This led to
    painful bunions that were immediately alleviated by the leather shoes
    that absorb more stress and distribute it more evenly over the foot.

    I've always worn low-top shoes, but it took about 3 years of playing
    before my ankles got strong enough to get through a game without
    swelling up afterwards.

    Hilarie Orman, ho@cs.arizona.edu




===================================================================

 2)  Visit the Ultimate Doctor


     [ NOTE: The information contained herein is ONLY a guide, and not
             to be taken as authoritative.  No one should ever accept
             any medical advice from the network except at their own
             risk.  Before dealing with any non-trivial injury,
             playing while in pain or injured, or starting regular
             treatment for an injury, a qualified doctor, preferably
             one specializing in sports medicine, should be consulted. ]



     a)  Pain and Painkillers

     At one time or another, people on the net have been posting
     discussions about pain - playing in pain, dealing with pain,
     playing while doped on various drugs, legal and otherwise, etc.

     A few notes, gathered from various doctors and experienced
     Ultimate players who deal with doctors:

     1.  Pain is your friend.  If you feel pain, it is a sign that you
         should slow down...or stop.
     2.  Ignoring pain generally leads to a more serious injury.
     3.  Playing Ultimate (or any sport) while under the influence of
         drugs, such to the point that pain no longer is felt by the
         body is very dangerous.


     These remarks, people note, are often ignored by people who play
     professional sports.  Please keep in mind, though, that the
     people who play professional sports usually have multiple,
     professionally trained individuals administering these drugs and
     monitoring the condition of the atheletes.  Also keep in mind
     that these people are being often being paid considerable sums
     of money to play these sports...not something Ultimate is well
     known for.

     Other players have indicated that they regularly play after
     taking aspirin or ibuprofen.  These drugs are noted for general
     anti-inflammatory benefit, but one should contact a doctor before
     starting a regular regemin of drug treatment, not only to avoid
     possible bad side-effects, but also in case a better treatment
     program is available.

     A last thought...there's usually only a few games a year where
     it's REALLY worth playing through severe pain.  Most people are
     better off missing a few practices due to some sort of injury
     than risking it all for the sake of an extra week of practice.
     However, everybody has to judge for themselves how bad an injury
     really is and what it's worth to you and your team to stay on the
     field.


     b)  General Injuries

     People who play Ultimate see plenty of injuries.  The general
     treatment for just about any sprain, strain, muscle tear, etc, is
     RICE, which stands for Rest - Ice - Compression - Elevation.
     First, get off the injury.  Then, 15-20 minutes of ice in an ice
     bag, wrapped around the injury, while elevating the injury above
     the level of the heard.  If the injury seems exceptionally
     severe, the best thing to do is see a professional about it.

     For injuries which are a result of the chronic wear and tear that
     Ultimate can give to the body, a general ice-massage is a good
     idea after practice and games.  As a matter of fact, old and new
     injuries alike feel much better if ice is applied shortly after
     the conclusion of the workout, not to mention controlling
     swelling.  An excellent way to make ice-cubes is to purchase some
     paper cups, fill them about three-quarters full of water, freeze,
     and then to peel the paper down from the top.  This way, you have
     something to hold on with your hands, and you can massage the
     injury directly with the ice, probably the best way to apply ice.
     Be careful of frostburn if applying the ice directly to the skin.

     Seeing a doctor who specializes in sports for any serious injury
     is highly recommended...it's amazing what a special stretch,
     brace, or tape-job can do for an injury which otherwise ruins
     your playing enjoyment, especially with respect to those nagging
     injuries which seem to never go away.  And it's never too late -
     if you sprain and ankle and find that it's still not quite where
     it should be two or three weeks later, a good sports-therapist
     can offer invaluable advice towards rehabilitation of the
     affected member.

     One reason some Ultimate players tend to avoid the doctor is
     their afraid the doctor will tell them to stop playing Ultimate,
     which we all agree is a Bad Thing.  Fortunately, many doctors who
     specialize in sports-medicine don't like people to stop what
     they're doing, except for a short period of time to let things
     heal.  Clearly, a sprained ankle or strained shoulder needs a few
     days to start the healing process, but after that, it's often
     possible to resume playing (carefully) with some medical
     assistance.


     c)  Tape and Braces

     Lots of times, people will beg, borrow, or steal the brace of a
     fellow Ultimate player, or ask a friend to "tape them up" when
     they're really don't quite know how to do it.

     As with using painkillers on a regular basis, it's a good idea to
     see a professional before starting to strap a brace on all the
     time.  Sometimes the cause of pain isn't what it seems...and a
     brace can help or * hurt * the problem.  The same is true for a
     tape-job.  It can make all the difference in the world to an
     injured body part, but the wrong taping job can really screw a
     joint up.

     Learning to tape yourself isn't too hard though, since you'll
     probably get tired of going to somebody for help all the time.
     If you need the same type of taping job regularly (as is usually
     the case) ask somebody who knows how to do it to teach you and a
     couple of your teammates, practice, practice, practices, and then
     start taping yourself.  After all, you're the best one to know
     when it's too tight and when it feels right.

     If you really mess up your knee and have a serious brace prescribed,
     make sure you select as good an apparatus as your circumstances
     permit.  Take time to look over what is available, talk to other
     players with similar injuries.  A well-fitted, lightweight brace
     will not interfere with a high level of play.


     d)  Shin Splints

     A fairly common injury that shouldn't be allowed to ruin your
     play.  Shin splints are usually the result of a lot of pounding
     on feet from continual running, jumping, and other types of
     Ultimate activity.  The causes can be traced back to lots of
     things, including the type of cleat, running surface, running
     style, proper muscle balance, and lack of proper stretching.
     They usually occur in people who radically change their workout
     schedule over a short period of time; ie, suddenly playing
     Ultimate every day after several months (years?) of inactivity.

     Once you get them, they often return, so people who get shin
     splints need to take certain preventative measures to strengthen
     the area and minimize the possibility of recurrence.  This includes
     stretching and exercising the muscles in the front and back of
     the lower leg.

     One easy exercise is to stand in front of a wall or bookcase or
     something you can hold on to for balance.  Without shoes on,
     alternate pulling the balls of your feet up off the floor until
     you can't do it anymore.  You should feel it working the muscles
     next to your shins.  Another exercise you can do at home is calf
     raises.  Start doing them with your feet flat on the floor, then
     work up to doing them with your heels hanging over a step.  Do
     them slowly!  Stretch before and after!

     A good stretch is call the "alphabet stretch".  Simply sit down,
     cross one leg over the other so that your ankle can move, and
     then, as if your big toe was the point of a pencil, make the
     shape of each letter of the alphabet, making sure to stretch the
     muscles and tendons by making your lines big.  Don't make tiny
     letters; take your time and make your penmanship teacher proud.

     To help them go away quickly, reduce the amount of pounding on
     the lower legs (ie, running and Ultimate) and increase the amount
     stretching and strengthening.  And, as always, ice is nice, along
     with aspirin or other painkiller (in moderation).

     A last note...if your symptoms persist or worsen, it's possible
     that you don't have shin splints, but have a stress-fracture or
     other injury instead.  See a doctor, who will probably be able to
     help with special exercises, stretches, or orthotics.


     e)  Sprained Ankles

     Another common injury which seems to befall Ultimate players, who
     often have to run on uneven fields.  As with any other injury,
     it's best to ice the area completely immediately after the
     injury.  Severe sprains can result in several days or weeks
     without being able to run on the ankle, so extreme care should be
     taken to make sure the joint heals.  Once a severe sprain has
     occurred, the joint will probably be vulnerable thereafter.

     As part of the rehabilitation, support for the joint MUST be
     provided, in the form of a brace, tape, or other support, for a
     few months at least.  Any serious sprain should be taken to a
     qualified doctor to make sure the injury will heal without
     medical intervention.  The fact is that the tissue damaged in the
     ankle takes up to a year to grow back to full strength, if it
     ever does.  If you consult a sports therapist during this time,
     he or she will give you some special exercises to build up the
     ankle, which will also help prevent further injury.
                         


     f)  Knee Injuries, the Anterior Cruciate Ligament (ACL)

     Those who injure their ACL's are advised to contact a physician
     for advice.  A sudden, severe pain deep in the knee followed by
     generalized swelling to the lower leg lasting several days may
     indicate tearing of the ACL.  Ultimate players can spend hours
     discussing their arthroscopic or reconstructive surgeries and
     subsequent physical therapy.   There is an ACL web page:
     http://www.math.ufl.edu/~sfm/ACL/acl.html
     and for general medical information about the knee, the following URL's
     may be of interest:
        Drawing of the knee:
.http://www.os.qub.ac.uk:80/whatis/fig3.html
        Medical info re knee surgery:
.http://www.os.qub.ac.uk:80/whatis/#surgery    
        Sports Illustrated diagram, male vs. female knee conformity:
.
.http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~dubois/df/si-knees.gif
 


     g) Pregnancy

     The recommendations from the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology
     re exercise during pregnancy are available in:
     ftp://ftp.hacks.arizona.edu/pub/ultimate/articles/exercise-during-pregnancy
     Women are strongly encouraged to consult their health care provider for
     more information and recommendations.


===================================================================

 a)  FAQ information and administrative swill

     This is part four of the rec.sport.disc FAQ [Frequently Asked
     Questions list].  This file, and its companion files, are posted
     bi-weekly to rec.sport.disc, news.answers and rec.answers.  The posting
     is designed to answer questions which are commonly asked by new
     readers of the group, as well as to provide a reliable source of
     information for regular readers.

.
     Please send updates, additions, and corrections to Hilarie Orman,
     ho@cs.arizona.edu
.
     
     No guarantee as to the accuracy of this information implied or
     expressed.  But I hope it's right....  Thanks to all the people
     who've helped contribute to this FAQ, especially David Birnbaum, the
     original maintainer of this FAQ, and Loring Holden, the previous
     maintainer..




