mputers.pc-clone.systems,misc.answers,news.answers
Subject: Misc.FS+Biz.Mktplc ADVERTISING FAQ--INFO FOR NEW USERS
Supersedes: <faq1_827395381@metrics.com>
Date: 6 Apr 1996 03:03:01 -0500
Summary: This article describes appropriate ways of posting
        forsale and wanted ads on misc.forsale.* and biz.marketplace.*.
        As most posters to misc.forsale are on Usenet for the first
        time, it provides information useful to all readers--new and
        old alike.
n:1676 biz.marketplace.non-computer:22512 misc.answers:3707 news.answers:68768

Archive-name: misc-forsale-faq/posting-ads
Posting-Frequency: 6th & 21st of the month
Last-modified: 1996/02/06
Version: 5.3
Major-Changes: Update to reflect biz.mktplc moderation
URL: http://www.phoenix.net/~lildan/FAQ


..--The Usenet Marketplace FAQ--

Volume I..    The How-To of the
Posting Ads.       misc.forsale and
...  biz.marketplace
...     newsgroups

The entire FAQ is now in full hypertext on the Web.  If you
have a web browser, then for goodness sakes, don't plow
through the text version!  Point your web browser to:
.<http://www.phoenix.net/~lildan/FAQ>

WARNING TO COMMERCIAL USERS:
  Unsolicited e-mail advertising is considered by many to be
  a crime on the internet, despite what list-marketers may
  tell you.  It _will_ ruin your reputation, and may cause you
  to lose your access.

BIZ.MARKETPLACE.* is now retro-moderated.  Inappropriate
  articles or outlandish subjects may be selectively cancelled;
  if this happens, e-mail will be sent to the From: address.


maintained by Daniel King ..lildan@phoenix.net
.Suggestions/comments/flames always welcome!
-----------------------------------------------------------

Volume I. Posting Ads on the Usenet Marketplace
.1.  Welcome to the Usenet Marketplace!
.2.  Purpose of the Usenet Marketplace.
.3.  What is appropriate to post, what isn't?
.4.  How to write ads for newsgroups.
.5.  Usenet Marketplace group list and descriptions.
.6.  How can I receive newsgroups not carried by my site?
.7.  Other classified ads on the Internet.
.8.  Considerations for commercial/entrepreneurial users.
..Subtopic:  A short guide to cancelling articles

Volume II. Conducting Transactions on Usenet
.9.  Finalizing the sale.
.10. Payment and shipping recommendations.
.11. International transactions.
.12. Glossary of common Usenet terms

----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Subject: 1. Welcome to the Usenet Marketplace!

  Allow us to be the first to welcome you to the Usenet
    Marketplace, where anything and everything changes hands at
    the best prices around.  Many, many satisfied
    computer-users have purchased everything from computer
    accessories to sailboards, houses to rollerblades.  We invite
    you to browse and see what the Usenet Marketplace has to
    offer.

  This FAQ acts as a general guide to transactions over all of
    the misc.forsale.* and biz.marketplace.* newsgroups, and
    provides suggestions applicable to many other advertising
    groups as well.  Its primary purpose is to answer many
    [F]requently [A]sked [Q]uestions and to guide all users
    through their transactions over the newsgroups.

  From buying to selling, whether you're a seasoned net user or
    not, read on!  We guarantee that some of these tips will
    help even the most experienced users on the misc.forsale
    and biz.marketplace groups.
 
  Please, _before_reading_this_, make certain you have read the
    "Network Etiquette" FAQ according to Emily Postnews,
    posted regularly in news.announce.newusers.  All of the
    FAQs referred to in these articles are also available by
    anonymous FTP at rtfm.mit.edu in /pub/usenet-by-groups/

------------------------------

Subject: 2. Purpose of the Usenet Marketplace.

  Originally the newsgroup "misc.forsale", the Usenet
    Marketplace is now a collection of 38 worldwide newsgroups
    under the misc.forsale and biz.marketplace hierarchies.
    These groups provide a forum for individuals and companies to
    offer goods and services of widespread interest to a
    readership estimated to be in excess of 300,000.

  More specifically, the misc.forsale groups were created to
    promote individual-to-individual sales of items the seller
    doesn't need any more, as you might see at a garage sale.
    The moderated biz.marketplace groups, meanwhile, are
    specifically for continuing enterprises--companies,
    organizations, and entrepreneurs--who offer special
    opportunities to individuals and other businesses.

  The purpose of the Usenet Marketplace is to facilitate
    transactions.  The Marketplace is *not* your local paper's
    classifieds, despite the similarities.  Because of this,
    please keep in mind the potential interest of the readers and
    post ads for their benefit, not yours.  After all, they are
    paying for _your_ advertisement.

  Finally, if you are *browsing* the Usenet Marketplace, you may
    want to check out both the misc.forsale group and its
    biz.marketplace equivalent.  Even if you're looking for
    something used, it can often be found for less from
    commercial sources.

------------------------------

Subject: 3. What is appropriate to post, what isn't?

  Article and newsgroup appropriateness is the most important,
    but least understood issue in the Usenet Marketplace.  If you
    post an inappropriate article, or if you post to the wrong
    group, you reach the wrong audience and you anger thousands
    of potential customers.  Why?  Because the money for your
    error comes from their pockets.

  The rest of this section will help you understand what you may
    advertise, while the next couple of sections explain
    how to advertise and in which groups to post.  These sections
    are our best attempt to guide you through the creation and
    posting of your ad.  However, you may leave here with
    additional questions.  If after reading these guides you are
    still unsure about the appropriateness of your work, then
    please e-mail your post to lildan@phoenix.net.  We'll try to
    provide additional suggestions to help you maximize the
    effectiveness of your ad.


***We Mean Business***

  Please understand that the Usenet Marketplace is serious
    business.  Everyone is expected to adopt the same ethical
    standards as in other types of transactions.  Just because
    you don't deal face to face does not exempt you from laws
    pertaining to forgery, fraud, harassment, and other issues.

  This extends to your offerings.  False advertising and
    unethical practices will not be tolerated by the Usenet, nor
    by your system administrator.  Every post to these newsgroups
    should be serious.  Please make certain you are posting to
    the appropriate group, and please DO NOT POST TEST ARTICLES,
    JOKE ADS, UNREALISTIC SCHEMES, or articles with forged
    headers to the Marketplace.  Chain letters, pyramid schemes,
    spamming (crossposting to numerous groups), velveeta
    (posting too many times to one newsgroup) and similar
    activities have caused hundreds of users to lose their
    access, and in some cases, their privacy.  You will be
    surprised at the resourcefulness and avengeful nature of
    disgruntled Usenet readers.  DAVE RHODES, THIS MEANS YOU!

  Expect that inappropriate posting, crossposting, or spamming,
    especially to newsgroups which specifically prohibit
    off-charter material like the Marketplace, may result in
    automatic article cancellation by robots implemented by
    many administrators who have taken active measures to
    prevent such activities from destroying the functionality of
    USENET and BIZNET.  Information on what is allowed in a
    newsgroup can almost always be found in that group's FAQ.

***Are You Individual or Commercial?***

  Most transactions in the Marketplace fall under one of two
    classifications:  individual sales or continuing enterprises.
    The former belong in the misc.forsale groups.  The latter are
    considered commercial, and belong in biz.marketplace.  Simply
    put, if you're an individual trying to clean out your closet,
    post to the appropriate misc.forsale newsgroup.  If you are a
    continuing enterprise, post to biz.marketplace.

  Examples of Continuing Enterprise:
.Entrepreneurs
.Individuals selling crafts or handiwork
.Consultants, Lawyers, Doctors
.Freelance Photographers, Writers, Programmers
.Retailers of seconds, refurbished, or overstock goods
.Not-for-profit groups soliciting material donations
.Realtors, property managers
.Companies offering their services or products
.Clearance sales and inventory close-outs
.Anything whose primary market is corporate

  This list is far from comprehensive, but it should provide a
    good guideline to help you figure it out.  If you still
    aren't sure, send e-mail to lildan@phoenix.net and we'll be
    glad to help you out.


***Acceptable Offerings***

  For non-commercial individuals, almost any offering is welcome
    in the Marketplace.  Computer parts, household items, and
    sporting goods are common, but even the most eclectic of
    items appear from time to time.

  Continuing enterprises are subject to enforced restrictions. If
    you are in this category, please also read the section on
    commercial advertising.

  Wanted ads are welcome in the Marketplace groups, although
    commercial wanted ads are subject to the same restrictions as
    forsale ads.  Wanted ads should include "Wanted" or "WTB" in
    the subject line.

  Discussion is permitted in the *.discussion newsgroups.
    Marketplace issues like reputability, questions not answered
    by this FAQ, and questions about where to find elusive items
    are welcome in the *.discussion groups.  Ads are *not*
    permitted in these groups, and likewise, no followups or
    discussion should be posted to the advertising groups.
    For example, if you want to find a reputable mail-order
    computer dealer, you should post to b.m.computers.discussion.
    Do not post to m.f.computers.discussion, because many of the
    responses will be commercial.  Also, whenever possible,
    please respond to posted discussion by e-mail only.

  A few things are *strongly* discouraged, or even prohibited...

    Distributorships, Individual Income Opportunities, and MLM
.Multi-level marketers and distributors are welcome to
.  offer their merchandise in biz.marketplace.*, subject
.  to the usual conditions, but no mention of MLM or
.  distributorship opportunities may be made.  These
.  opportunities are considered jobs rather than services,
.  and historically are of no interest to readers.  Discussion
.  about such opportunities belongs in alt.business.multi-level
.  or misc.entrepreneur.moderated, but ads are not permitted.

    Job Offerings
.Too many income opportunity posts have soured this topic in
.  the Marketplace, but topical and specific solicitation of
.  contract/freelance workers is still permitted.  Instead,
.  try misc.jobs.

    Price or Product Flames
.If someone posts a price which you consider too high,
.  please do not post a response.  Readers on the
.  Marketplace almost always know the market and take the
.  opportunity to shop around, thus your post will only
.  waste.precious bandwidth.  A much better action is to
.  send e-mail directly to the poster suggesting that the
.  price is too high.  Usually, the poster will respond by
.  lowering the price.  The same goes for product flames.
.  If you have a technical point about an item, it's
.  welcome in the appropriate *.discussion group.  Flames
.  like "OS/2 Warp is better than Win95", however, are not
.  welcome.
.If you *must* flame the price, again, send the poster
.  e-mail, DON'T POST!  If you still can't hold yourself
.  back, then you _must_ include the following
.  information:
..The source of the better price
..The price quote and date issued
..A contact phone number and e-mail address
.  Also, prepare yourself for a flame war if your source
.  is out-of-stock or does not ship nationwide.  Remember
.  that the Marketplace is global; the price quoted may be
.  in Canadian or European currencies, and even after
.  conversion, prices are generally lower in the U.S. than
.  in Canada, Italy, or Kyrgyzstan.

    Again, chain letters, test messages, joke ads, spamming,
.and velveeta are not permitted.

------------------------------

Subject: 4. How to write ads for newsgroups.

  Ultimately, the most important aspect of any ad on the
    newsgroups is the ad copy--the subject and text which tell
    the reader what she needs to know.  Unlike older methods,
    however, the network newsgroups require a slightly different
    approach to advertising for both individuals and enterprises.

***Offering Your Items For Sale***

  Three sales methods are prevalent on the newsgroups:

    Stating an asking price in the ad.
.If you have an approximate knowledge of what your item
.  is worth, then we recommend this method as the most
.  effective.  Most people will pay attention to a stated
.  asking price, whereas they will often ignore other
.  means, because they do not want to waste the effort on
.  an auction they might not win.  One tip: make sure you
.  mention whether your price is firm or negotiable.

    Soliciting offers.
.Another method is to solicit offers without stating an
.  asking price.  This may be your best alternative if you
.  don't know what your item is worth, but it is not
.  nearly as effective as a stated price.  "If you gotta
.  ask, you don't wanna know," is an American adage that
.  sums up the situation--many people who might otherwise
.  be interested will not offer a price, and thus you miss
.  a large number of potential buyers.

    Conducting an auction.
.A final method is to offer items for sale through an
.  on-line auction.  This method is acceptable, but not
.  recommended.  Again, many people will ignore ads
.  without stated prices.  In addition, some readers
.  object to auctions because of the bandwidth they
.  consume.  The best type of auction is a buy-or-bid
.  auction, where you state a maximum price at which you
.  are willing to sell the item outright.  Also, several
.  guidelines for newsgroup auctions have been developed
.  to minimize the problems caused by bad auctioneers in
.  the past:
..Auctions should end within 2 weeks of the
..  initial post.
..Auctions should be limited to 2 posted updates;
..  updates sent by e-mail to bidders conserve
..  network resources.
..Auctions should be conducted in an ethical
..  manner; all items should be sold to the highest
..  bidder unless a reserve (minimum bid) was
..  stated in the initial post, and at no time
..  should any bidder be solicited for a higher
..  bid.

***The Subject Line***

  Most participants in a newsgroup only read a few of the
    articles posted.  Usually, they scan a list of all the
    subject lines for articles that interest them.  Because your
    ad is very dependent on this first contact with the reader,
    you should take the extra time to write a brief, informative,
    and effective subject line.  

  Basically, you need to present the most important information
    about your ad in 38 characters or less--the maximum allowed
    by some newsreaders.  In your subject, you should specify
    what you are selling--items, manufacturers, styles, and
    sizes, where appropriate.  If space is available, include
    your price and locality, but exclude hype.  Also, don't make
    30 posts in one newsgroup in order to give each item its name
    in lights--you'll lose people who don't appreciate your waste
    of bandwidth. Better is to write one article for each
    appropriate group, then be as specific as you can within the
    subject line.  If your ad is a "Wanted" ad, the inclusion of
    "Wanted" somewhere in your subject is required.

  Great subject lines:

      The best subject lines include items, manufacturers, and,
.in some instances, sizes.  For big items or items you
.don't want to ship, include your city in the subject.
.Prices are also helpful if space allows.

."Bose Speakers, Iron, Cherry Pitter"
."Nordica 770 Ski Boots, sz11, $200"
."Red '94 Camaro in Detroit, $12k"

      For large listings, group several similar items together,
.but don't overdo the number of articles, particularly
.with items under $50.

.Article 1: "Chairs, dining table, hutch FS"
.Article 2: "Iron, vacuum, household misc FS"
.Article 3: "Stereo, 19" TV, Bose speakers"

      Computer items require model numbers and more technical
.detail:

."17" Mag 17DX NI .28dp monitor, $400"
."Gateway VL-Bus 486DX33, 8RAM/512HD"
."HP Laserjet 4P printer, $650"
.
      Commercial ads should include product lines, price, and
.conditions.

."1000pr Nike shoes, export from US"
."Refurb Maxtor 212meg IDE HD $149"
."Overstock NEC 14"-20" monitors"
."Academic Microsoft,Borland software"
."Trading partner WTD, Hungary Cement"
."Visual C++ programming svcs $25/hr"

  Terrible subject lines:
.
      These two have plenty of space for more information--
.
."Household items FS"
."Car for sale"

      Why are you different from all the others?  Which.languages
.can you program?
.
."Freelance programming available"

      URLs make noisy, long subjects.  Use the space to advertise instead.

."Colorado Cumquats http://www.cumquat.com/~cumquats"

      Capitalized words are perceived as rude shouting; the
.same is true of.symbols.  The wasted space won't help you
.sell your items--
.
."******BOSE SPEAKERS******"
."BOSE SPEAKERS FOR SALE"
."---!!!!!bose speakers for sale!!!!!---"

      These items do not belong in the same newsgroup.  The
.article.should be split into 2--

."DOS and MAC Software FS"

      Several articles have this same subject at any given time,
.and this subject provides no useful information.about the
.service:

."Make money from your computer!"

  Even if your ad is in the appropriate group, it may be deleted
    from some groups just on the basis of a lousy subject line.

***The Ad Body***

  Now that you have a descriptive title, you need to write the
    body of your ad.  The key to a good advertisement is the same
    as the subject.  Keep it short, but include as much pertinent
    information as possible.  For example, the best ads in the
    newsgroups usually fit on one screen--about 18 lines.  In
    this space, you should include:

      The item or service offered explained in technical detail
.Include every technical detail you can:  color, size,
.year of manufacture or purchase, and technical
.specifications in the case of computer equipment.  If
.your item is particularly unusual, you may want to say
.what it is in layman's terms.  Not everyone knows that a
.Berrien Sandrail is a kind of dune buggy.

      Your reason for selling
.Did you buy a more powerful item?
.Is the sale from a divorce?
.Does it have any problems?
.Businesses: is it refurbished, overstock,...?
.
      Sales terms and contact information
.Your full name, e-mail address, _and_phone_number_
.Any warranty you will provide, or lack thereof
.    Working on arrival is standard practice
.Your location (city & state/country)
.Will you ship the item elsewhere?  Internationally?
.Who pays for shipping?
.
  Occasionally, offerings will be so lengthy as to merit longer
    articles.  If you have a long list of CDs, household goods,
    software, or computer hardware, try to put one item to a
    line, single-spaced.  The fewer times a potential customer
    has to scroll through the pages of your article, the more
    likely he is to see the items at the end of the list.
    Biz.marketplace users are subject to additional length
    restrictions, as described in the later section on commercial
    ads.

  One final note, please do not include binaries in your
    advertisements.  Pictures of your advertised items are nice
    for potential browsers, but you must remember that your ad
    will be stored on a few thousand different news servers.
    That adds up to a lot of memory; enough that it is usually
    bad netiquette to post binaries to any groups that aren't
    specifically for that purpose.  Also, many people have to
    download all of the articles in a group in order to read that
    group.  Binaries cost heavily in transmission time.  A better
    idea, if you have a picture available, is to mention it in
    your ad, and offer to send the binary by e-mail, uuencoded or
    MIMEd, to interested parties.

  This tried-and-true format is the most successful way to
    advertise on the Usenet Marketplace.  Usenet readers just
    want facts.  Marketing hype and personal commentary is not a
    good idea because many people see it as wasteful--don't
    forget who is ultimately paying for the distribution and
    storage of your ad.  If your article is more than a
    screenful, and you are only offering a few items, make your
    ad shorter.  Otherwise, the majority of readers will simply
    ignore it.

------------------------------

Subject: 5. Usenet Marketplace group list and descriptions.

  If your web browser is set up for news, the easy way to select
    the right group is on the World Wide Web:
...<http://www.phoenix.net/~lildan/FAQ/>
    The web pages don't have the same space restrictions, and go
    into much more detail than you'll find here.
   
  Please, when you post, post to only 1 newsgroup.  Also, if you
    are not willing to ship your item overseas, please limit the
    distribution of your article if it's easy for you to do so.

  Finally, when your item has sold, please cancel your article,
    just as you would cancel your newspaper classified ad.  In
    most newsreaders, you can do this by re-reading your article
    and pressing a capital or lowercase "C".  If this doesn't
    work, then don't worry about it.


  -*-*-*-*-*-*-Non-Commercial misc.forsale Groups-*-*-*-*-*-*-

=*=*=Non-Computer Items=*=*=

  misc.forsale.non-computer
.Non-computer items for sale and wanted by individuals:
.sporting goods, garage sale announcements, sabbatical
.rentals, bicycles, furniture, miscellaneous

.[Also see the list of additional, more specific
.  marketplace groups at the end of this list.]

=*=*=Cross-Platform Computer Hardware=*=*=

   [Some platform-specific hardware belongs in these groups]

  misc.forsale.computers.discussion.     *NO ADS*
      Computer questions, reputability questions and comments,
      discussion about the FAQ, product reliability questions and
      comments.  Please, no company recommendations.

  misc.forsale.computers.printers
      all printers, plotters, toner cartridges, paper

  misc.forsale.computers.monitors
      all monitors, video displays

  misc.forsale.computers.memory
      all online memory, RAM, VRAM, DRAM, SRAM, simms, sipps,
      EEPROM, laptop memory, yes, even 8-bit simms

  misc.forsale.computers.storage
      all storage devices for all media and interfaces, tape
      backups, floppy drives and disks, hard drives for all
      systems, CD-ROM drives, WORM drives
 
  misc.forsale.computers.net-hardware
      network hardware, routers, ethernet cards for all systems

  misc.forsale.computers.modems
      modems for all systems, PCMCIA modems, voice-mail cards

=*=*=IBM PC Architecture Hardware & Software=*=*=

  [no modems, net hardware, storage media, memory, monitors
             or printers belong in these groups.]

  misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.motherboards
      PC Motherboards, 286/386/486/Pentium/Overdrive CPUs

  misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.systems
      complete desktop or tower SYSTEMS (no parts),
      barebones systems (at least case, PS, CPU, MB required)

  misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.portables
      complete portable SYSTEMS (no peripherals or parts)

  misc.forsale.computers.pc-speicfic.audio
      sound cards, PC MIDI equipment, computer speakers

  misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.cards.video
      PC video cards, SVGA cards, Television cards

  misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.cards.misc
      other PC-only cards, SCSI cards, IDE interface cards,
      data acquisition cards
      [no network or audio cards, please]

  misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.software
      All DOS, MS-WINDOWS, OS/2, Linux software for PCs,
      CD-ROM software for the above

  misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.misc
      PC-only items which won't fit in any of the above groups


=*=*=Macintosh Architecture Hardware & Software=*=*=

  [No modems, net hardware, storage media, memory, monitors
            or printers belong in these groups.]

  misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.portables
      complete portable SYSTEMS (no peripherals or parts)

  misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.systems
      complete desktop SYSTEMS (no parts)

  misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.cards.video
      Mac video cards, television cards

  misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.cards.misc
      Other Mac-only cards, audio cards, data acquisition cards
      [no network cards, please]

  misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.software
      All Macintosh software

  misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.misc
      Mac-only items which won't fit in any of the above groups
 
=*=*=RISC and Other Workstations=*=*=

  [No x86 stuff, modems, net hardware, storage media, memory,
        monitors or printers belong in these groups.]

  misc.forsale.computers.workstation
      items specific to high-power workstations, SPARC systems,
      RISC processors, HP workstations, NEXTs, data acquisition
      interfaces, other workstation components which don't fit in
      other groups, UNIX software
      [no souped-up PC clones, please]

=*=*=Other Computer Software & Hardware=*=*=

  [No modems, net hardware, storage media, memory, monitors
           or printers belong in these groups.]

  misc.forsale.computers.other.systems
      for as-yet unmentioned SYSTEMS (no parts or peripherals)
      Amiga, C64, TI99, minicomputers, supercomputers
 
  misc.forsale.computers.other.software
      software for other systems

  misc.forsale.computers.other.misc
      parts and peripherals which don't fit in any other groups

[The following groups are obsolete, officially dead, and should
  not be posted to.  Posting to obsolete newsgroups
  may prevent your article from being sent to some sites.
  misc.forsale, misc.forsale.computers, misc.forsale.computers.mac,
  misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone, misc.forsale.computers.d, and
  misc.forsale.computers.other.]


-*-*-*-*-*-*-Commercial biz.marketplace Groups-*-*-*-*-*-*-


  Question:  "I'm a profit-motivated entity, but I don't get
    biz.marketplace at my site.  Can I post to misc.forsale?"

  Answer:  No.  If your site gets misc.forsale, but not
    biz.marketplace, then your site probably prohibits commercial
    use, and it would be inappropriate for you to post your ad in
    the first place.  Alternate access to biz.marketplace and
    other unavailable newsgroups is presented in the next
    Subject.
 
=*=*=Non-Computer Items=*=*=

   biz.marketplace.non-computer
      non-computer items offered domestically by businesses,
      close-outs, overstocks, seconds, sales of rental equipment,
      condo rentals, salvageable capital items

   biz.marketplace.discussion...*NO ADS*
      domestic shipping questions, general Usenet Marketplace
      discussion, discussion about the FAQ

  biz.marketplace.international
      requests for international trading partners, offers of
      surplus goods which must be exported for sale,
      international shipping services

  biz.marketplace.international.discussion.*NO ADS*
      discussion of international marketing and overseas shipping
      issues

  biz.marketplace.services.non-computer
      non-computer services of many sorts, long-distance
      telephone deals, freelance writers, non-computer
      newsletters and reports, and whatever else
      [no multi-level-marketing or entrepreneur-related]

  biz.marketplace.services.discussion..*NO ADS*
      discussion of service performed over the Internet,
      service quality reputations, and other service-related
      issues

=*=*=*=Computer Hardware, Software, and Services=*=*=*=

  biz.marketplace.services.computers
      for computer services of all types, not-for-profit orgs
      soliciting donations of computers, freelance programmers,
      software support services, internet access services
  
  biz.marketplace.computers.discussion..*NO ADS*
      for discussion of commercial computer issues, product
      reliability, commercial vendor reputations

  biz.marketplace.computers.pc-clone
      PC compatible systems, laptops, motherboards, CPUs,
      video cards, monitors, printers, memory, modems, software,
      and all supporting equipment
      [please tailor your post to the PC market]
 
  biz.marketplace.computers.mac
      Macintosh compatible systems, laptops, CPUs, memory,
      video cards, monitors, printers, modems, software and all
      supporting equipment
      [please tailor your post to the Macintosh market]

  biz.marketplace.computers.workstation
      RISC-based and other high powered workstations,
      supporting high-powered peripherals, large monitors,
      network equipment, UNIX software, and other stuff typically
      seen only in workstations
      [please, no x86 systems, and tailor your post to the
.workstation market]

  biz.marketplace.computers.other
      for other types of systems and components specific
      to those systems, Amiga, C64, TI99, microcomputers,
      supercomputers, etc., and software for these systems.

[The following groups are obsolete, officially dead, and
  should not be posted to.  Posting to obsolete newsgroups
  may prevent your article from being sent to some sites.
  biz.misc, biz.comp.hardware, biz.comp.software, and
  biz.comp.services]


-*-*-*-*-*-*-Additional Marketplace Groups-*-*-*-*-*-*-
  

  The following groups reside in other hierarchies and are
    designed to handle markets for more specific items.  You may
    crosspost an article to one Usenet Marketplace group and to
    one of the following at the same time--subject to the rules
    of these groups.  Commercial ads may be prohibited in some of
    these groups; please read their respective FAQs for more
    information.  For group descriptions, see the web version of
    this FAQ.

 alt.aquaria.marketplace.rec.crafts.marketplace
 alt.art.marketplace ..rec.games.board.marketplace..
 alt.cd-world.marketplace.rec.games.frp.marketplace
 alt.home-theater.marketplace.rec.games.deckmaster.marketplace
 alt.marketplace.funky-stuff.forsale
 alt.sex.erotica.marketplace .rec.games.video.marketplace
 comp.os.os2.marketplace.rec.music.marketplace.cd
 comp.sys.amiga.marketplace.rec.music.marketplace.misc
 comp.sys.apple2.marketplace.rec.music.marketplace.vinyl
 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.marketplace
 comp.sys.mac.games.marketplace.rec.music.makers.marketplace
 comp.sys.next.marketplace.rec.outdoors.marketplace
 comp.sys.sun.wanted..rec.photo.marketplace
 misc.industry.electronics.marketplace
 rec.antiques.marketplace.rec.radio.swap
 rec.arts.books.marketplace.rec.skiing.marketplace .
 rec.arts.anime.marketplace.rec.travel.marketplace
 rec.arts.sf.marketplace.soc.genealogy.marketplace
 rec.audio.marketplace
 rec.audio.high-end
 rec.autos.marketplace
 rec.aviation.marketplace
 rec.arts.comics.marketplace
 rec.bicycles.marketplace
 rec.boats.marketplace
 rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.magic.sales (& 2 more)
 rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace.misc

------------------------------

Subject: 6. How can I receive newsgroups not carried by my site?

  One common problem is a lack of access to certain newsgroups.
    This is particularly true of the biz.marketplace groups,
    because some sites do not carry the Biznet hierarchy.  Your
    first action should be to ask your system administrator why
    she doesn't carry a particular group or set of groups.
    Often, just expressing an interest will be enough to convince
    her to subscribe.  Or, you may find out that your site
    doesn't permit commercial use of the news facilities, in
    which case you should not try to circumvent local policy.

  However, if you have a dying urge to post to or read a specific
    group which your site does not carry, there are several free
    ways to receive those groups.  These can be particularly
    useful if you live in Kazakhstan and your only news access is
    through Gopher and e-mail (a true story).  For posting, a
    simple e-mail message to the right address will post your
    article.  For reading, a number of open news servers and
    gopher news services are available for your perusal.  But
    please, first talk to your local source for help to find out
    how to read and post news from your local server.

  In many cases, the only reason certain newsgroups are not
    carried is because of a lack of storage space.  In this
    instance, please read Bob Rankin's "Accessing the Internet
    by E-Mail FAQ" in news.answers.

------------------------------

Subject: 7. Other classified ads on the Internet.

  In addition to the Usenet Marketplace, several additional
    advertising services are available through the Internet.  If
    you want to post goods for sale, many of these (often free)
    services welcome your wares.  Browsing is always free.  In
    any case, please learn the rules of using these services
    before posting your ad.  Most sites have help files
    available.  For the list of WWW classified ad sites (there
    are several), see the web version of this FAQ.

  Gopher servers--

    The Exchange in eastern Washington State
.a local weekly paper presents some of its ads online
.<gopher://gopher.iea.com:Exchange.Publishing>

  Anonymous FTP servers--

    The Exchange in eastern Washington State
.<ftp://ftp.iea.com/public/adlinkex>

  [If you know of other sites not mentioned here, please let us
    know.]

------------------------------

Subject: 8. Considerations for commercial/entrepreneurial users.

  Businesses, entrepreneurs, not-for-profit organizations, and
    other commercial entities must follow additional guidelines
    when posting to newsgroups, including the Usenet Marketplace.
    Many users frown on the use of the Internet for commercial
    purposes because of rampant commercial abuse in the past.
    Because of this prior misuse, it is especially important that
    you help us to change this image in order to allow continued
    commercial use of the Usenet Marketplace.  The rest of this
    section, while tailored to the biz.marketplace hierarchy,
    pertains to many other newsgroups as well.  If you would like
    to know more about why commercial ads are under such
    restrictions, I highly recommend Joel Furr's FAQ on
    advertising,
    "Advertising on Usenet: How To Do It, How Not To Do It"
   . posted regularly to news.misc.

  Commercial entities may post advertisements to the appropriate
    biz.marketplace.* newsgroups as long as they satisfy the
    criteria detailed below.  These criteria have been designed
    to conserve bandwidth, minimize noise, and provide the best
    value for potential customers while providing you with the
    best audience for your wares or services.  If you follow
    these criteria, you will receive the most positive response
    possible; your sales will grow and your organization will
    maintain a good public image.  If your marketing tactics
    compromise the integrity of these newsgroups, you can expect
    loss of sales, loss of privileges, and a poor reputation
    among Internet users.  You can also expect a nasty message
    from the biz.marketplace moderator announcing that your
    article has been deleted as inappropriate.

***Junk e-mail alert!***

  These newsgroups are about posting ads for readers to browse
    through at their leisure.  Some companies have recently tried
    to mass-market by culling e-mail addresses from newsgroup
    posts, and sending these posters unsolicited e-mail.  Sending
    unsolicited e-mail advertisements over the Internet is
    against the policy of most Internet service providers,
    including AOL and other major online services.  This practice
    is not tolerated by the Usenet audience, and sometimes
    results in revocation of Internet access.  You may, however,
    send an e-mail reply to the poster of a question about
    services or products you can provide.

  Inappropriate commercial use of the Internet is watched by many
    users, and recorded for posterity.  If you would like more
    information, check out the Blacklist of Internet Advertisers
    posted regularly to news.answers to see who has ruined their
    reputation recently.

***About the biz.marketplace moderated newsgroups***

  The biz.marketplace newsgroups are retro-moderated, which means
    that the moderator routinely cancels inappropriate posts
    after-the-fact.  At present, several robots analyze the
    biz.marketplace groups and automatically cancel most articles
    which don't adhere to the suggestions in this FAQ.  The robots
    try to be lenient and have been running greater than 99%
    accuracy.  However, because they are only as stupid as the
    idiot who programmed them, the moderator reserves the right
    to cancel any article which does not follow the suggestions
    for advertising listed in this FAQ.  From time to time,
    biological entities may also intervene to cancel articles
    which the robots miss.

  It is possible, in the rarest of cases, that a totally
    appropriate article would be cancelled.  If your article
    follows all of the suggestions and is still cancelled, please
    work with us to resolve the problem.  If your article is
    cancelled and you included a valid e-mail address in the
    From: or Sender: header, you'll receive notification.

  The following quote from the biz.marketplace charter should help
    you understand our purpose:

    "Because the propagation and storage resources of this
    hierarchy are supported primarily by the customers, all
    posters to this hierarchy must recognize that a heavy
    emphasis is placed on end-user value.  Every post to any
    biz.marketplace group should demonstrate, in a concise
    manner, its value to the customers.  This value should not be
    easily obtained except through these newsgroups.  This value
    may be monetary, or it may be in the form of services which
    are not prolifically advertised and are of general interest
    to the readership."

***Acceptable commercial offerings***

  All commercial offerings must provide end-user value as stated
    above.  These offerings are welcome in biz.marketplace
    newsgroups:

    Discounted merchandise</STRONG>
.You may post an ad if everything in your post is offered
.at a price significantly lower than the lowest price
.available for the same first-quality merchandise through
.retail stores, mail-order catalogs, national advertising
.campaigns, and other nationally-distributed media
.including TV, magazines, or large discount chains.  For
.computer items in the U.S., the litmus test is the lowest
.current, not published, price offered by dealers in
.Computer Shopper magazine.  Bulk offerings and offerings
.not open to the general public must provide an equivalent
.value to corporate customers.  The discount from the best
.nationally-available prices should be at least 10% for
.items/lots $500 or more, 12-15% in the $200-500 range,
.and at least $20 for items/lots under $200.  It is your
.responsibility to research prices before posting.

.A few examples:
.   Refurbished goods
.   Overstocks
.   Factory seconds
.   Closeouts
.   Offerings to individuals at or near wholesale
.   Bulk offerings for export below wholesale
.
    Hard-to-find services or merchandise
.You offer services or tangible goods that would not
.otherwise be available nationally, and are of widespread
.interest to the readers.  You still must offer very
.competitive pricing.

.A few more examples:
.   Home handiwork
.   Freelance services:  writing, programming, photography
.   Language translation services
.   Consulting services
.   Internet t-shirts and coffee mugs
.   Small-company developed software
.   Escrow services
.   Internet service providers
.   Self-published fiction
.
  These offerings should not be posted:

    Entire catalogs
.Only those items in your inventory which satisfy the
.above criteria may be advertised.  Because catalogs use
.a lot of resources, it is better to pick a few choice
.items to advertise, briefly describe the rest of your
.inventory, and solicit e-mail requests for your catalog
.or announce a web link to it.  Please keep your ad to
.fewer than 40 lines in the interest of bandwidth.

    Distributorships, investment opportunities, sales positions,
      and multi-level marketing
.You may offer your merchandise if it would otherwise be
.acceptable, but marketing or investment opportunities are
.not included in the Marketplace scope of facilitating the
.sale of goods and services.  Job offerings, except for
.specific solicitation of contract/freelance workers in the
.services groups, fall under the same category.  In the
.interest of international trade, limited specific
."corporate distributors wanted" advertising will be
.allowed in the international group, but _only_ if its
.presentation follows the highest Marketplace standards.
.NO soliciting for individuals internationally.

    Items of limited interest to the audience
.All offerings should be of interest to a large number of
.the readers.  In general, most computer-related items or
.services are appropriate, as are everyday items,
.furniture, decorations, and other items used by a large
.percentage of the population.  The largest parts of the
.Usenet audience come from all corners of the world, and
.include computer-related business employees, high-school
.and university students, professors, top scientific
.researchers, and the occasional computer-literate family.
.Most readers have advanced educations.  If your item is
.not of widespread interest to these populations, then
.please don't advertise on the newsgroups.  

.A few examples of usually inappropriate offerings:
.   Psychic, sex, and similar telephone services
.   Herbal and experimental medications and diet
..supplements
.   Money making opportunities of most sorts
.   Immigration and trial law services
.
***Commercial ad copy requirements***

  When writing your ad, please keep in mind the suggestions for
    ads written by individuals.  Many of the suggestions are
    enforced for commercial ads, especially pertaining to
    effective subject lines [HINT!!! ;-].  Once you understand how 
    to write an ad from an individual's point of view, modify your
    commercial ad to follow a few additional guidelines:

    State exact items, services, and prices in detail.
.Stating that you offer a certain product line is not
.enough.  You must provide specific examples.  Any reader
.knowledgeable about your products should be able to read
.your ad and easily see the end-user value.  Be certain
.you include model numbers, special conditions, and, most
.importantly, prices.  Also include shipping and payment
.information.  We repeat: failure to include prices for
.merchandise _will_ make your article eligible for
.cancellation.

    Keep your ad reasonably short, but not _too_ short.
.As a general guide, if you are offering one item, you will
.rarely need more than 12 lines.  If you have 12 items, try
.to use no more than 2 lines per item.  40 items, no more
.than 1 line per.item.  If your list of qualifying
.offerings won't fit in 50 lines, list a few representative
.items or services, then offer to send the full list by
.e-mail to interested parties.  Alternatively, include a
.link to your catalog on.the World-Wide-Web.  But be sure
.to include the requisite examples to prove that your ad is
.appropriate!  Very few readers will scroll past the second
.page of your article, so be brief, don't waste space, but
.say what you need to.  Post much more than 50 lines and
.the robots will.automatically cancel your ad.  Also,
.don't include blank forms in your posts.

    Present facts, eliminate hype.
.When you write your ad, just present technical
.information and facts.  Do not include commentary or
.marketing hype.  Because of the high level of education
.of most of the readers, marketing hype only wastes
.bandwidth and invites questions about your reputability.
.Present your product in a serious technical light and you
.will sell more in these newsgroups than if you present it
.as the biggest innovation since the atom bomb.  Also, the
.laws of various consumer protection agencies about truth
.in advertising apply and are strictly enforced in their
.own way on the newsgroups.

    Please tailor your posts to each newsgroup.
.If you offer items which belong in different newsgroups,
.such as a variety of PC and Macintosh hardware, then
.please write a separate article for each of the intended
.groups.  PC users do not like to sort through listings of
.Macintosh items, nor should computers or computer
.services be posted to the non-computer groups.  Instead
.separate PC and Macintosh hardware into separate posts.
.You will lose sales if a PC user has to skip over a group
.of Macintosh hardware before finding your PC section.
.Posting to multiple biz.marketplace groups is another
.criteria for cancellation.

    Include _your_ e-mail address.
.If your e-mail host sends automatic replies, or if you
.don't regularly read mail in the account from which you
.are posting, please include an e-mail address in your ad
.where you, personally, can be reached.  Autoresponders
.work well for responding to large numbers of catalog
.requests, but they don't work well when people have
.questions, comments, or complaints.  Some Usenet
.Marketplace users will not do business with companies who
.refuse to make a live person easily accessible for
.questions.  We also urge you to respond to such
.questions, comments, or complaints, as users will often
.complain to your system administrator if you cannot be
.reached.

    Post your ad once a month.
.If your offerings are continuous, please maintain a
.1-month interval between posts, unless you need to make a
.correction.  If someone posts a request in a
.*.discussion group for a service you provide, respond to
.her by e-mail rather than reposting your stock ad.  Your
.ad may disappear at your site in a couple of days, but it
.will remain at other sites for 2 weeks or more.  The
.one-month interval has been determined to be a reasonable
.compromise because of limitations on bandwidth and
.storage at most sites.  Enforcement will be included in
.future robots.

    Learn how to cancel articles before you post.
.If your post escapes with an error, or if it needs a
.price correction, please cancel your original post before
.posting the update.  See the section on cancelling
.articles for more information.

    Limit distribution of your post
.When you post to the Usenet Marketplace, your article is
.sent to thousands of news servers worldwide.  If you
.don't want to deal internationally, or if your items are
.too large to ship, please limit your article distribution
.when posting.  For more information, see the section on
.advanced posting topics.

  Finally, if you are unclear on any of these issues, please ask.
.It might save a lot of headaches later.

***A short guide to cancelling articles***

  If you make a.mistake when posting, or should you need to
    revise your ad, it is imperative that you be able to cancel
    it quickly.  The most universal way to correct such problems
    is to post a corrected ad with a Supersedes: header at the
    top.of your new message.  To do this, you need the
    Message-ID: from your original article.  Go into your
    newsreader,.find your article, and look at the headers (you
    may need to type 'h' to see them).  The top of your article
    should look similar to:

.Newsgroups: misc.forsale.non-computer
.Subject: BooBoo For Sale
.From: hoosier@commercial.com
.[other headers]
.Message-ID: <several_characters_and_numbers@site.com>

.[Article text after a blank space]

    In your new article, include the following line in your
    header:

.Supersedes: several_characters_and_numbers@site.com

    An easier way if you use rn, trn, or nn as your newsreader is
    to type a capital 'C' while you are.reading your original
    article.  Then, post your new article (if any).  Hitting 'C'
    cancels the original article and erases the text, although
    the subject line may not be removed at all sites.  Some sites
    have other ways of cancelling articles.  Talk to a local
    system administrator for help.

..-*-*-*-*-End ad-posting FAQ-*-*-*-*-
 
.

