=============================================================================== Subject: Monologue Breakthrough Forum: Multimedia Vendor+ , Media Vision ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 56492 TO: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Date : 10/12/93 9:13:23 PM Ed, First of all, if you find a similar message to this one in the IBM Communications Forum... sorry 'bout that. In my haste to post my findings I think I had OzCIS configured wrong. I just managed to duplicate the "volume setting" problem that you and Roger are experiencing! My curiousity got the better of me, and I went to the trouble of moving my Visual Basic files upstairs to the other system... the one with the Studio card. Sure enough... the wav volume setting gets moved to about a 50% setting every time. Can I assume that both you and Roger also have the Studio card? If so, then we now know the problem is isolated to "something" different with the Studio card vs the Spectrum card... hopefully a driver that can be substituted and ultimately fixed by Media Vision. I think I just inherited an assignment, right? Since I have two systems, one immune to the problem and another that demonstrates it, I guess I'm expected to identify the culprit. Please verify that you do indeed have the Studio card. Some files are common between the Studio and PAS-16 and others are not. I'd like to limit the investigation if possible. So... is this good news or bad news. :-) Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Msg# : 56517 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/13/93 12:52:27 AM Bob- Great job! I do not have the studio card, I have the PAS16 that came with a kit called FusionCD 16. However, I have updated my PAS16 software with the PowerPak upgrade, which upgrades the software to I think what is distributed with the Studio card. Another thing: I CANNOT use the DLL calls successfully without having the file MONO_16.EXE either running, or located on the DOS path. At first I t hought I had to actually have it running, but when I moved the file to a directory on the DOS path, then I no longer get the "WinEXEC" error, even if the program is not running. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 56594 TO: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Date : 10/13/93 8:32:16 PM Ed, Unbelievable. This monologue saga is developing more plot twists than a daytime soap opera. The fact that you don't have the Studio card is also significant. That "should" help narrow down the differences we're trying to identify. BUT... since your PAS-16 came with the FusionCD bundle, I'd almost bet hard cash that you have the "newer generation" card. The tip off from a functional standpoint is that after rev. level C, the IRQ and DMA settings are all set via software. Am I right that your's is like that? My PAS-16... the one that does not exhibit the problem... is pre revision level C (I set jumpers on the card). Here's the significance of that observation: Your version of the PAS-16 is more like a Studio card (from a hardware perspective) than it's like my old PAS-16. One might expect that that software interaction also follows a similar vein. As for your having the PowerPak upgrade for your PAS-16... so do I. The above is troubling if there is any merit to my hardware differences theory. I tried like heck getting my old PAS-16 to fail last night by moving files from the Studio configuration to the PAS-16 configuration. I moved anything that I thought might have a bearing on mixer operation or wav gerneration which didn't match perfectly in byte count. I still could not introduce the shift in volume setting problem. I will next do a complete line by line comparison of win.ini, system.ini and file directories. That won't happen for a few days, however. I'm going out of town tomorrow morning on business. It's rough when work interfers with a good mystery, eh? Regarding your needing MONO_16.EXE either running or on the DOS path. That is downright wierd and absolutely contridicts my findings. However... I too always got the "WinEXEC" error during initial attempts. I cured that one by no longer trying to pass 0 as the first parameter. As soon as I changed it to hWnd, the WinEXEC error went away. lpSCB = OpenSpeech(hWnd, 0, "FB_22K16") Is that what you're using? Hopefully, I'll be back in town this weekend and we'll pick up then where we left off. I look forward to hearing from you. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Kevin Angley , 71555,525 Msg# : 56607 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/13/93 10:15:23 PM I'll jump in here. I have the PAS-16 Spectrum card and PowerPak upgrade and have the 50% volume problem. Isn't it a constant that the newer software is what has the problem (i.e. whether shipped with Studio or as the PowerPak upgrade?). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Msg# : 56680 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/14/93 5:26:17 PM Bob- The saga does indeed continue. Thanks for your continuuing efforts. Here are some responses to your questions: 1) Yes, I do have the later revision PAS16 card. My revision is, in fact, D. I set all parms via software, not jumpers. 2) I have never used 0 as the first parameter, always used hWnd. 3) I have discovered that I need more than MONO_16.EXE available on path. I need FB_NGN.EXE on the path. In fact, I don't think I need MONO_16.EXE on path, I think it must have loaded FB_NGN.EXE during prior execution and hence it was in memory during further checking. I will keep playing with this one. 4) Lastly, and most concerning, is that I can't get mciSendString code that was posted here by Roger Kendall to work for me. The code I am using follows. I get a null ("") return in a$ from the call to mciSendString!!! Declare Function mciSendString Lib "mmsystem" (ByVal lpstrCommand As String, ByVal lpstrReturnString As String, ByVal uReturnLength As Integer, ByVal hWndCallback As Integer) As Long ''' Get Wave Input Volume a$ = Space$(50) i% = mciSendString("get mix device_in WAV control volume", a$, Len(a$), j%) WaveInput = Val(a$) Any Idea what might be happening here? I have already successfully done a OpenSpeech befor the above code is executed. Ed Tenholder ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Robert Elden Wilson , 75146,517 Msg# : 56797 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/15/93 7:55:19 PM Bob, Just to add to this thread: I have been having almost all of the same problems that others are having trying to use the monolog DLL with VB3.0. By using the suggestions here, I have gotten it to work with no problems, EXCEPT that I also have the volume problem. My card is a Spectrum 16, about one year old. The PAS interrupt/DMA is set via software, while the Soundblaster values are jumpers on the board. I'll keep checking here to see what others find. Of course, anything I learn will be posted. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 56913 TO: Kevin Angley , 71555,525 Date : 10/16/93 7:15:07 PM Kevin, Thanks for jumping in! Do you know what revision level your PAS-16 is? That is starting to look like a key factor. The fact that you have the PowerPak upgrade may not be the issue at all. You see, I also have the PowerPak upgrade for my PAS-16 and am still immune to the 50% volume problem. My PAS-16, by the way, is one of the very first ones ever released. Maybe there is something to "They don't build them like they used to". (g) Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Kevin Angley , 71555,525 Msg# : 56810 TO: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Date : 10/15/93 9:59:30 PM OK, gang, I think I have this problem with Monolog Say function resetting the WAV input to 50% fingered out. I have some info that I have not yet been given permission to post, so I won't yet (though I promise to check into that early next week). Suffice it to say for the moment that we could suppose that the long returned by OpenSpeech was a far pointer to a data structure whose first three 16-bit words just happened to be controls for pitch (0 - 11), speed (0 - 10), and volume (0 - 9). Let's say that the data structure is initialized with 5, 5, 5, and that these values are used to set wav input with each call to Say. So, point to whichever you want to control, and place the value there (while he's not talking). The numbers I have in parentheses are those values that seem to produce a perceptible change. Except .. it is really interesting to try speed with numbers above, say, 30. He starts to stutter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: ROBERT STEPHAN , 76106,3710 Msg# : 56898 TO: Kevin Angley , 71555,525 Date : 10/16/93 6:05:18 PM Do you have a macro to call the DLL in WordPerfect for Windows? Thank you, Bob Stephan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 56914 TO: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Date : 10/16/93 7:15:13 PM Ed, >> Yes, I do have the later revision PAS16 card. My revision is, in fact, D. I don't know whether to extend congratulations... or condolences. (g) >> I can't get mciSendString code that was posted here by Roger Kendall to work for me. I won't be any help with that issues... at least not for now. I'm going to concentrate on trying to isolate why some soundcards are immune to the volume setting problem in the first place. I do have some new information on that. I have just learned that Creative Labs is also switching to Monologue-16. And, it turns out they did not included any better documentation than we're working with. As a result of a message thread I have going somewhere else (not on CompuServe), I helped someone get the DLL working with his SoundBlaster card... and didn't even know it until he jumped in to say "thanks!". Well, I'm sure going to establish a dialogue with that guy and start comparing notes. Perhaps between what Creative Labs provided and the info we already know, I'll be able to sort something out. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 56915 TO: Robert Elden Wilson , 75146,517 Date : 10/16/93 7:15:18 PM Robert, >> I have gotten it to work with no problems, EXCEPT that I also have the volume problem. My card is a Spectrum 16, about one year old. The PAS interrupt/DMA is set via software, while the Soundblaster values are jumpers on the board. Egads! There goes another theory shot to heck. (g) Thanks ever so much for jumping in to the thread. Actually, I'm glad to learn that the volume setting problem is not unique to the Studio card and revision level "D" PAS-16's. Your PAS-16 is old enough to rule out it being the new board design. If I knew where to begin, I'd start comparing files and system configurations with you to find where we are different. We both have older cards, but you've got the problem. Hmmmmmmm. Is there anyone out there who can suggest a strategy on how to sort this out? Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Msg# : 56924 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/16/93 9:12:24 PM Bob- How about if Robert Wilson zips up all of his Media Vision files and sends them to you, and you swap them into you system one at a time? Ed Tenholder ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Kevin Angley , 71555,525 Msg# : 56970 TO: ROBERT STEPHAN , 76106,3710 Date : 10/17/93 10:27:22 AM >> Do you have a macro to call the DLL in WordPerfect for Windows? Sorry, no. I'm working with a C program. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 56977 TO: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Date : 10/17/93 11:49:13 AM Ed, Your suggestion of Robert Wilson zipping up all his Media Vision files and sending them to me is deffinitely a possibility... one that I may persue. In the mean time... be sure to see my message to Nill regarding what happens when you merely change the volume setting in Monologue's control panel and click on "Sample". BTW, setting it to something higher than the default of 5 is NOT a workaround to the DLL problem. :-( I already tried. Are you aware that there is alledgedly a "SayGlobalSet" function that is supposed to give us access to the three control panel parameters? The guy with the SoundBlaster version mentioned it... but he thinks it's as bogus as the original DLL documentation. I used a portable tape backup unit this morning to move all the Monologue-16 files from the PAS-16 system to the Studio system. I wanted to rule out that some change had been "slipstreamed" into the files, even though the file sizes already matched. No difference. At least we can rule that out. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Msg# : 56991 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/17/93 12:30:06 PM Bob- Other possibility is that .INI settings are different, not the actual program files?? -Ed Tenholder ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 57032 TO: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Date : 10/17/93 9:47:20 PM Ed, >> Other possibility is that .INI settings are different, not the actual program files? Indeed a possibility... one that I'm trying to sort out. The system that is immune to the problem has one of the most complex win.ini and system.ini files one could imagine. I was a beta tester for some Microsoft multimedia stuff last year and have lots of settings and drivers installed that do not show up on the new system. Not an easy task. :-( Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Msg# : 56992 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/17/93 12:30:10 PM Bob- Kevin Angley had posted what looked like it might be a reasonable work around for the volume problem, using mciSendString to retrieve and restore the mixer settings before/after using monologue. That, in conjunction with figuring out how to pass proper volume, etc parameters to SaySpeech , would allow suitable workaround. My problems: 1) I can't get the mciSendString code to work. Will not return current settings for me. 2) I don't know how to access the structure returned by OpenSpeech so that I can modify it before giving it to SaySpeech using the Visual Basic language contructs. -Ed Tenholder ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 57030 TO: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Date : 10/17/93 9:47:06 PM Ed, >> I don't know how to access the structure returned by OpenSpeech so that I can modify it before giving it to SaySpeech using the Visual Basic language contructs. I don't either. And as for the mciSendString code, that too is something I've had no experience with. Call me stubborn, but I have no interest in a "workaround". I just finished re-installing the 8-bit version of Monologue on the system with the Studio. It is immune to the mixer resetting problem. I can change Monologue's speaking volume yet the wav setting in the mixer is constant. It behaves just as it should, even with the Studio card. Now I'm trying to figure out what that experiment proved... if anything. (g) Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Nill Toulme , 71563,2030 Msg# : 57016 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/17/93 6:05:00 PM Wait a minute... I told you wrong. Neglected to do the "click Sample" step. You're right... it does change the WAV volume setting. Same effect if you OK without clicking Sample, first time you invoke Monolog by rightclicking. Sorry. Nill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 57031 TO: Nill Toulme , 71563,2030 Date : 10/17/93 9:47:10 PM Nill, I don't know if we're making progress or not. (g) You have a revision level "C" PAS-16 plugged into your pc. Yet all the software is from the Studio card that you initially installed and subsequently returned to Media Vision. And, the wav setting is changed when the "Sample" button is clicked from Monologue's control panel. That suggests that it's not a hardware issue limited only to Studio cards and revision level "D" PAS-16's. Your "C" PAS-16 is also exibiting the problem when teamed up with the Studio software. Facinating. Perhaps I should duplicate your situation by moving my PAS-16 to the system that now has the Studio... and leave the Studio software in place. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Nill Toulme , 71563,2030 Msg# : 56927 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/16/93 10:16:08 PM >>> >> I have gotten it to work with no problems, EXCEPT that I also have the volume problem. My card is a Spectrum 16, about one year old. The PAS interrupt/DMA is set via software, while the Soundblaster values are jumpers on the board.<< <<< >>>Egads! There goes another theory shot to heck. (g) Thanks ever so much for jumping in to the thread. Actually, I'm glad to learn that the volume setting problem is not unique to the Studio card and revision level "D" PAS-16's. Your PAS-16 is old enough to rule out it being the new board design. <<< Are you sure about that? I would think if the "interrupt/DMA is set via software", then it's a Rev D, isn't it? Doesn't the Rev C use jumpers? Nill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 56975 TO: Nill Toulme , 71563,2030 Date : 10/17/93 11:49:01 AM Nill, Regarding the revision level of Bob Wilson's PAS-16... Bob said >> The PAS interrupt/DMA is set via software, while the Soundblaster values are jumpers on the board. You asked >> Are you sure about that? I would think if the "interrupt/DMA is set via software", then it's a Rev D, isn't it? Doesn't the Rev C use jumpers? Hard to keep all this straight. (g) No PAS-16 ever set the IRQ or DMA channel for the PAS section via jumpers. Remember all the discussion regarding using different DOS vs Windows settings? Obviously, if they were "hard set" with jumpers... that discussion would have never took place. The jumpers in question are for the SoundBlaster section (IRQ and Port Address). As I understand it, starting with revision level "D" those two jumpers went away and one set them with the extra parameters on the MVSOUND.SYS command line. So... since Bob set's the SoundBlaster section via jumpers I'm concluding that means revision C or earlier. Does that make sense or am I still missing something? BTW, do you have Monologue-16 installed? I'm not referring to all this DLL stuff or programming for it with Visual Basic. I just mean installed so it can be used in Clipboard mode, for example. If so, please see my next message. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 56976 TO: Nill Toulme , 71563,2030 Date : 10/17/93 11:49:07 AM Nill (and anyone having Monologue-16 installed), I stumbled on another issue... so fundamental that I'm surprised it hasn't been raised before. We've been so focussed on what happens when one makes a call to the DLL function that we've not recognized what happens when one uses Monologue-16 in its normal operating mode. My old PAS-16 installation: I double click on the icon and get the Monologue control panel. Lets say I make a change to the volume setting (Monologue's control panel slider) and click the "Sample" button. Only Monologue's speaking volume is affected. The setting for wav volume is not affected (I can observe this by having Pro Mixer open and observe that the wav slider doesn't move). My new Studio installation: In this case, any change I make to the volume setting in Monologue's control panel is immediately reflected in the wav slider setting (again, observing it by having Pro Mixer open) as soon as I click on the "Sample" button. At least in my case, I don't need to make a DLL call to see the difference in behavior between the two installations. The wav volume resetting problem is inherent to Monologue-16 on one system, even at the control panel "Sample" level! How about the rest of you out there? Please let me know which behavior you experience and which version of the soundcard you are using. Thanks! Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Msg# : 56989 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/17/93 12:30:04 PM Bob- Just tried Monologue with Pocket-Mixer open, and I also observe that when I have it speak sample, it changes the mixer settings. I have revision D of PAS-16. -Ed Tenholder ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Nill Toulme , 71563,2030 Msg# : 57015 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/17/93 5:47:23 PM I have the *original* (v1.0, I suppose) Studio installation, though I'm currently running a Rev C PAS-16 board. Changing the volume in Monolog does not change the WAV setting in Pro Mixer. This behavior was the same when I had the Studio card installed. Nill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Kevin Angley , 71555,525 Msg# : 56972 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/17/93 10:48:23 AM Hmmm. I'm a bit confused. Maybe there is a problem different from the one I thought we were pursuing, since you guys are still searching for answers. In message 56810, I posted what I believe to be the cause and solution for the problem that each call to Say resets the volume of wave input to 50%. In case you missed it, I'll summarize: Cause (this is a reasonable guess): OpenSpeech initializes a data structure that includes pitch, speed, and volume to be default values of 5,5,5 on a scale that is roughly 0 to 10. Each time Say is called, these values are used. That is why volume is reduced to 50% each time it is called. Solution: Interpret the long value returned by the OpenSpeech call as a far pointer to a data structure, the first three 16-bit values of which are pitch, speed, and volume, respectively. Load whatever you want to in there after OpenSpeech, but while there is no speech in progress. Let me know if I have solved the wrong problem. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Msg# : 56990 TO: Kevin Angley , 71555,525 Date : 10/17/93 12:30:05 PM Kevin- Any idea how I deal with the long pointer to the OpenSpeech data structure from visual basic?? -Ed Tenholder ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Kevin Angley , 71555,525 Msg# : 57027 TO: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Date : 10/17/93 8:55:23 PM >> Any idea how I deal with the long pointer to the OpenSpeech data >> structure from visual basic?? Hmmm. I haven't a clue about visual basic. However, a long pointer is nothing more than a 32-bit address. The word (16-bit) located at that address contains the value to be used for pitch, followed immediately by a word for speed and a word for volume. If VB doesn't allow you to refer to memory locations by address, does it allow inline assembler routines or ability to link with C functions? While we are talking programming, perhaps you can help with a problem I am having with Monolog API which is probably ignorance on my part rather than a bug (this Windows spin on programming is new to me). The first parameter to OpenSpeech is hWnd, but the documentation says nothing about what that is. I'm guessing it is a Window handle, but what does that mean? Does it want space allocated for a handle, or does it want "the instance" of the calling program, or what? The example in the older docs say to stick a zero here, and that in fact works as long as the program is in the foreground. If it is executing in background when something occurs to make a call to the speech engine, the application locks up. Any help would be appreciated. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 57022 TO: Kevin Angley , 71555,525 Date : 10/17/93 7:59:20 PM Kevin, You're right... there IS a problem different from the one you thought we were persuing. (g) Let's back up and define what the problem is. Monologue has always had it's own volume control. This was true with the original 8-bit version and still is with the new 16-bit version. The volume setting for Monologue, however, is exclusively it's own. Whether set from Monologue's control panel, or set using a DLL call, the effect is to be on the speaking volume of Monologue only. The "problem" is that with some system configurations, Monologue is resetting the soundcard's mixer channel for wav audio. This is an important distinction and one I'm afraid many have missed. The change in the mixer setting is not normal operation. The "volume control" for Monologue for raising or lowering the speaking volume to comfortable level... for a given mixer setting. Therefore, your suggestion is not a fix but only a "workaround" which does not address the root problem. :-( BTW, Monologue-16 behaves as I described it should, on a SoundBlaster-16 ASP. I am now considering re-installing the old 8-bit version of Monologue (which never had the mixer setting interaction) and verify that it does not "develop" the problem with the Studio card. If it too starts misbehaving, then its a safe assumption that the soundcard and/or its drivers are at the heart of the problem. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 57280 TO: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Date : 10/19/93 7:51:06 PM Ed, Be sure to see my message to Ricardo. He too has a system which is immune to the mixer volume resetting problem with Monologue-16... and he found what was unique to my PAS-16 system that gave it the immunity. One driver added to my Studio system made it immune to the problem too. I can now make DLL calls to Monologue-16 on both systems without worrying about the mixer setting changing. Outstanding. Sometimes it pays to be persistent. (g) Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Msg# : 57330 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/19/93 11:43:19 PM Bob- Terrific work! Now if we can only all get access to the .drv file, we'll have the answer. Let me know if you make any progress on being able to distribute it. Ed Tenholder ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Nill Toulme , 71563,2030 Msg# : 57423 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/20/93 5:05:01 PM >>> Be sure to see my message to Ricardo. ...One driver added to my Studio system made it immune to the problem too.<<< I missed it... which driver is that? Nill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ FROM: Ricardo Belmar, 70054,3616 Msg#: #57179 TO: Bob Blow, 76546,230 Date: 10/18/93 6:12:34 PM Bob, Just performed a test. I have a Rev "b" PAS16, and it shows the same volume effect. That is, changing monologue's volume setting from its control panel does NOT change the wav setting in the mixer (verified by watching the pro mixer window). I tried this with clipboard mode. Changing the wav volume in the mixer does, as it should, alter the volume of monologue. My "sample button" test worked just like yours did. This is a long-shot, but you mentioned some beta-test work for MS, do you have Soundbits running on the PAS16 system? I'm thinking it could be the wave mapper driver soundbits uses? A long shot.... Ricardo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 57279 TO: Ricardo Belmar , 70054,3616 Date : 10/19/93 7:51:03 PM Ricardo, >> ... changing monologue's volume setting from its control panel does NOT change the wav setting in the mixer (verified by watching the pro mixer window). Man, am I glad you took the time to run that test! And if the fact that there's two of us immune to problem wasn't good news enough... >> This is a long-shot, but you mentioned some beta-test work for MS, do you have Soundbits running on the PAS16 system? Well I'll be darned! Actually, I'm not even sure what "Soundbits" is, but your comment about a "wave mapper driver" rang a bell. I have the following entry under the [drivers] section of system.ini... wavemapper=msacm.drv For grins, I rem'd it out and restarted Windows. BINGO! The mixer volume resetting problem appeared. I put the line back in, restarted Windows again and the problem is gone again. I then copied that little jewel to the system with the Studio card. BINGO! Problem fixed. :-) The beta testing I did for MS was for what's called "Multimedia Pack", a CD-ROM overview of Windows and multimedia. I just checked the CD, and sure enough, that's where the driver came from! Do you also have this driver loaded? I wonder if it can be distributed? This is the fix that everyone's been looking for. Tell 'ya what... I'll wait to hear from you that msacm.drv is in fact the same driver you have installed. If it is, we can encourage one of the other forum members to do a "File Find" here on CompuServe. If it's not here on CompuServe, Courtney will have to pass judgement as to whether we can upload it to this forum as a Monologue-16 fix. So... how does it feel to be a hero? :-) Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: C. Harrington/Sysop , 72662,155 Msg# : 57297 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/19/93 8:55:25 PM Bob- >> If it's not here on CompuServe, Courtney will have to pass judgement as to whether we can upload it to this forum as a Monologue-16 fix. While people generally move files around CIS from forum to forum - copyrighted stuff should be okay'd by the owners. If you got an address and other info (what program etc) I'll see what I can do. Courtney Harrington/SYSOP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Ricardo Belmar, 70054,3616 Msg#: #57435 TO: Bob Blow, 76546,230 Date: 10/20/93 6:50:18 PM Bob, >>> wavemapper=msacm.drv<<< Exactly the line I have!!!!!! Soundbits is a sound events enhancement MS sells. I've got the version that has all sorts of Hanna Barbera sound effects and sound clips. It adds two drivers to windwos, but this is the main one. >>>I wonder if it can be distributed?<<< Oh boy! You just asked the BIG question that's been the subject of many discussions over in Ziffnet in PCMag's editorial section. Here's a brief summary of this problem. The driver is a "wavemapper" that adds some very important feautures to multimedia apps under Windows. The main things are letting ANY sound card (8-bit, 12-bit, or 16-bit) play CD quality samples. It also allows for these samples to be stored in MS ADPCM format. As it turns out, it does many other things similar to this (I can go back and reread some of the threads if you or anyone else is interested). You can probably guess how significant this is for developing multimedia apps and storing them in less space. The problem? This wavemapper can be any driver, meaning it hooks into the operating system (windows). In fact it's mentioned on MS's Developer Network CD. However, MS never documented any of it in any sdk or provided any info about it to any other companies. This, depending on your viewpoint, gives MS an unfair advantage. Until now, you could only benifit from wavemapper technology by buying MS products. (In fact, the driver lets any other sound program that uses mci calls to play compressed sounds). With all that aside, I'm not sure we can distribute it. I know up until before this story broke, Ms was firmly saying NO. They may have changed their minds now. I'll have to find out. But I wouldn't get too excited yet.... >>>So... how does it feel to be a hero? :-)<<< I always knew I had it in me Ricardo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Msg# : 57325 TO: Kevin Angley , 71555,525 Date : 10/19/93 11:28:03 PM Kevin- hWnd is a unique 'handle' to a window. I assume it is pointer to a control block structure that defines parameters for the window. -Ed Tenholder ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Robert Elden Wilson , 75146,517 Msg# : 57286 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/19/93 8:26:17 PM Bob, My leaning is to suspect something with software as that is more variable than the hardware. All of our systems have different software environments. Another thing that I notice that makes software more likely is that if I have pocket mixer open when I try to use the monologue API, the wave level indicator drops to 50% from wherever I had it. This makes me think that something is setting the volume down. If the problem were soley in the hardware, I would expect the volume to drop, but pocket mixer to not be aware of it and leave the indicator where it had been. I've no further ideas, but am just starting to read the thread from this point. Will keep chiming in as I have ideas. As I've just finished reading the thread, let me add a few thoughts. First, I also tried changing the volume from the monolog control panel and it changes the wav volume on the mixer when I execute the sample button (did I expect otherwise after reading all this?) :> I thought that maybe the value was being set by the DLL to whatever was set in the control panel, but this is not the case. No matter what value I leave the control panel in, when calling the DLL from a VB/win program, the wav volume is set to ~50%. I'm going to play around with setting the volume directly as described in Kevin's message. Probably generate a few GPF's in the process! While this is not the ideal solution, it at least may make the API usable. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Msg# : 57329 TO: Robert Elden Wilson , 75146,517 Date : 10/19/93 11:43:17 PM bob- If you get "setting the volume directly" working without GPF, would appreciate your code snippet. -Ed Tenholder ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 57486 TO: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Date : 10/20/93 10:51:17 PM Ed, >> Terrific work! Thanks. I may get a little credit for keeping the irons to the fire on identifying what made some systems immune to the problem, but Ricardo came up with the specific driver involved. He's sure got some interesting information on that driver, eh? Obviously, there's more to learn. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 57484 TO: Nill Toulme , 71563,2030 Date : 10/20/93 10:51:10 PM Nill, By now... with all the message traffic that this revelation has generated... you may have picked up the fact that both Ricardo and I have a Microsoft wavemapper driver installed. The file name is msacm.drv. I didn't even know that I had it! Ricardo remembered that I mentioned some beta testing I had done for Microsoft awhile back. He put two and two together and, to use his terms, suggested a "long shot"... a Microsoft driver that most people didn't have installed, but we did. Obviously there is more learn, but apparently we not only stumbled on a driver that provides some immunity to Monologue-16's misbehavior, the driver itself is surrounded with some degree of controversy. BTW, all of that is news to me! As I said earlier, I wasn't even aware the darn thing got installed on the old system. One more new piece of information... I'm now aware of a third system that is also immune the volume resetting problem. It's Linda Rosenbaum's! I just wrote a message to her to determine if she too has the msacm.drv. If she does, I like to know what software application installed it. If she doesn't, then there's still a mystery to be solved. (g) Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: C. Harrington/Sysop , 72662,155 Msg# : 57493 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/20/93 11:44:22 PM Bob- msacm.drv is installed by Microsoft Bookshelf - among others I would imagine. Courtney Harrington/SYSOP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Ron Weingarten , 74176,3143 Msg# : 57529 TO: C. Harrington/Sysop , 72662,155 Date : 10/21/93 11:23:21 AM Just to let you known, the "msacm.drv" file is also found on disk 1 of Microsoft Windows Sound System (Compaq Version). Ron Weingarten ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: C. Harrington/Sysop , 72662,155 Msg# : 57551 TO: Ron Weingarten , 74176,3143 Date : 10/21/93 4:22:14 PM Ron- Thanks - it appears we are compiling a list here Courtney Harrington/SYSOP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Ricardo Belmar, 70054,3616 Msg#: #57578 TO: C. Harrington/Sysop, 72662,155 Date: 10/21/93 7:25:02 PM Courtney, Just about any MS multimedia product includes it (except Windows) Ricardo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: C. Harrington/Sysop , 72662,155 Msg# : 57439 TO: Ricardo Belmar , 70054,3616 Date : 10/20/93 7:21:14 PM >> It's all part of the "wave mapper scandal". There's even a book about it coming out in November. Recommended reading I'm sure Courtney Harrington/SYSOP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 57487 TO: Ricardo Belmar , 70054,3616 Date : 10/20/93 10:51:23 PM Ricardo, >>> wavemapper=msacm.drv<<< >> Exactly the line I have!!!!!! Well, how about that. (g) Thanks ever so much for the background on the "wavemapper scandel". Of all the drivers for us to find helps fix a problem with Monologue-16, it would have to be that one, eh? >> I'm not sure we can distribute it. I know up until before this story broke, Ms was firmly saying NO. They may have changed their minds now. I'll have to find out. You know, another thought occurs to me. A lot of us have been beating our brains out, backwards engineering the frickin' DLL to get it to work in the first place... filling in the documentation voids we were provided... and now finding a fix to a problem inherent to Monologue-16 itself. Isn't it time Media Vision does something? Afterall, we're handing the solution to them on a silver platter. Since the solution appears to be driver belonging to Microsoft, I would think a company as big as Media Vision would be in a good position to negotiate/authorize its distribution. Just a thought. (g) Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Kevin Angley , 71555,525 Msg# : 57471 TO: Edward J. Tenholder , 76447,1030 Date : 10/20/93 10:16:18 PM >> Wnd is a unique 'handle' to a window. I assume it is pointer to a >> control block structure that defines parameters for the window. OK .. but in the call to OpenSpeech in the Monolog API, does the hWnd parameter mean the handle of the calling window, or an unitialized data structure that the called window is free to use, or what? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 57485 TO: Robert Elden Wilson , 75146,517 Date : 10/20/93 10:51:14 PM Bob, >> My leaning is to suspect something with software as that is more variable than the hardware. Turns out your leaning was in the right direction. (g) I have a Microsoft product called "MediaPack 1.0" which is a CD-ROM based Windows multimedia enhancement. I hadn't gotten around to installing it on the new system... the one with the Studio card. Now that we know there's a Microsoft driver that for reasons still not clear to me, provides immunity to wav volume resetting problem caused by Monologue-16, I installed MediaPack on the new system. It too is now immune to the problem. So hardware indeed never had anything to do with the anomoly. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Ricardo Belmar, 70054,3616 Msg#: #57577 TO: Bob Blow, 76546,230 Date: 10/21/93 7:23:51 PM Bob, >>>Of all the drivers... ...it would have to be that one, eh?<<< Doesn't it always work out that way? >>> Isn't it time Media Vision does something?<<< I have some thoughts (just pure speculation on my part, not really grounded in any facts...yet). We already know there's a problem with MV getting some techs to answer questions here on CIS, but no one has been able to get answers from phone support either. I'm getting the impression that MV has been using all its software resources to produce their upcoming CDROM products, and ignore all their other software, whether original or licensed from some one else. I don't think this is the best approach they could take. I'd hate to see them take a Creative Labs view where "we have so much market share, what do we care about our existing customers". On the other hand, I find it very intersting that this particular driver fixes a problem it really isn't supposed to be associated with. I'm going to try and find out some more details about the wave mapper, because I don't see how the features I told you about relate to Monologue. Even more speculation, after the "scandal" came out, MS didn't seem to try to hide it or deny anything, taking a "it was a mistake" viewpoint, so maybe they DO have some deals in the works (or worked out already) that might relate to our problem. Just guessing, though. As for the wave mapper, I'm pretty sure any MS multimedia products include it. The msacm.drv driver was supposed to give them an advantage. The problem is, they didn't tell anyone else how to write one. The saga continues..... Ricardo P.S. I'm posting a message to MS tonight in th ir multimedia section, we'll see what happens.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: C. Harrington/Sysop , 72662,155 Msg# : 57591 TO: Ricardo Belmar , 70054,3616 Date : 10/21/93 9:45:01 PM Ricardo- >>Just about any MS multimedia product includes it (except Windows) Why am I not surprised... Courtney Harrington/SYSOP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Nill Toulme , 71563,2030 Msg# : 57604 TO: C. Harrington/Sysop , 72662,155 Date : 10/21/93 10:31:22 PM >>> msacm.drv is installed by Microsoft Bookshelf...<<< Are you sure? I have Bookshelf '92, and I don't have that file. Nill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: C. Harrington/Sysop , 72662,155 Msg# : 57612 TO: Nill Toulme , 71563,2030 Date : 10/21/93 11:32:31 PM Nill- >>Are you sure? I have Bookshelf '92, and I don't have that file. All I can say is it came with the '93 edition. I installed the upgrade last week and the driver showed up right after that. Courtney Harrington/SYSOP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 57587 TO: Ricardo Belmar , 70054,3616 Date : 10/21/93 8:48:17 PM Ricardo, >> As for the wave mapper, I'm pretty sure any MS multimedia products include it. One I know doesn't have it is Video for Windows... I checked. But I'm glad to see others post those applications that do include it. >> I'm posting a message to MS tonight in their multimedia section, we'll see what happens... Great! Keep us posted. And as for our mutual disappointment that Media Vision hasn't offered any support on this issue, let's hope they see the light before a loyal following gets too soured. I'm about to break ranks with the terribly limited ExecuVoice that Media Vision bundles. I've had an opportunity to learn a little about Creative Lab's counterpart... "Voice Assist". Oh my gosh, what a difference. Right out of the box it's ready to add any new command you want, and it's even smart enough to automatically add the menu's from ANY Windows application. Voice Assist is now packaged with the SoundBlaster-16 ASP. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Ricardo Belmar, 70054,3616 Msg#: #57716 TO: Bob Blow, 76546,230 Date: 10/22/93 6:33:33 PM Bob, Drum roll please...... MS just told me that we are free to distribute the file and do anything we want with it (just about) and encourages us to spread it around! It's available in a zip file in the Microsoft Windows Multimedia Forum (Lib 10) along with some support files I believe. I'm going to go download it now, and I'll upload it here tonight. It should be available in the lib soon, if Courtney ok's it. >>>"Voice Assist"<<< It was bound to happen, CL giving out better software with its SB products. I'm currently looking into Command Corp's In Cube product. It has built in scripting (so you don't even need to use Ptools of Power Launcher macros per se), and can be trained with new vocabularies, etc. The demo works well (usually better than ExecuVoice) and Bob Adams here in the General section will be sending me some information. Have you looked into In Cube? Does Voice Assist work with any windows sound card or just SB16ASP? Does CL write it themselves, or did they get from someone else? Most importantly, does it do a good job recognizing your voice? >>>One I know doesn't have it is Video for Windows... I checked.<<< Hmm, interesting. does it include any special audio sounds? I'd think they'd put it into anything with audio in it. Ricardo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Roger A. Kendall , 74650,3213 Msg# : 57754 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/23/93 4:02:01 AM Well, I've read this thread, all 31 entries..and my opnion expressed previously regarding MV and its incompetence is confirmed....This situation is ludicrous. Further, I find that, even with the famous mixer reset, VB3 becomes flakey after a call to the monologue dll...specifically, the system simply runs in an infinate loop (no GPF or anything) from an EXE file (it works fine in the program editor environment!!!???). I am ripping out three weeks of work out of my program system....it is simply NOT worth the hassle!!! Besides, how can I distribute code which indicates.. "Install Monologue 16 and a bunch of other stuff indicated below.." such as the msacm.drv.? Good luck to all... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Ricardo Belmar, 70054,3616 Msg#: #57793 TO: Roger A. Kendall, 74650,3213 Date: 10/23/93 6:19:37 PM Roger, >>>how can I distribute code which indicates.."Install Monologue 16 and a bunch of other stuff indicated below.." such as the msacm.drv.?<<< You're right. Everything we've mentioned is onlyl a temporary fix. We need to hear from MV, or find a real solution. The msacm.drv trick is strange. I think I explained in the "Temp Monologue Volume Fix" (I think that's what I called it) message that no one knows yet what this driver does that Monologue works correctly with it installed. I've started speaking to Microsoft support people, and I've been directed to the developers for multimedia stuff. Hopefully, I can find out through them what's going on with these drivers. Ricardo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: C. Harrington/Sysop , 72662,155 Msg# : 57722 TO: Ricardo Belmar , 70054,3616 Date : 10/22/93 7:38:10 PM Ricardo- >> I'm going to go download it now, and I'll upload it here tonight. It should be available in the lib soon, if Courtney ok's it. You got it and thanks. Courtney Harrington/SYSOP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 57894 TO: Ricardo Belmar , 70054,3616 Date : 10/24/93 9:36:07 PM Ricardo, >> Drum roll please...... MS just told me that we are free to distribute the file and do anything we want with it (just about) and encourages us to spread it around! Way to go! Here's some more odd information concering our favorite puzzle, Monologue-16. I just got a message from the guy who has the SoundBlaster-16 ASP. His version of Monologue-16 does have the "FB_11K8.dll". Also, the mixer for his SoundBlaster is not affected. I just wrote back to him to check for the Microsoft driver. If he doesn't have it, well... starting to look like Creative Labs did a more thorough job of debugging. :-( >> Does Voice Assist work with any windows sound card or just SB16ASP? Does CL write it themselves, or did they get from someone else? Most importantly, does it do a good job recognizing your voice? There is a generic version available and the manual does say it will work with any SoundBlaster compatible soundcard. The copy I'm evaluating isn't mine to keep and is the version that comes with the SoundBlaster-16 ASP. I'm getting some clicks, pops and buzzes as Voice Assist processes a command... I have no way to know if this is because I'm using it with the Studio card. The generic version may not have the noise problem. The only reference to who the source is for the program is a credit to Voice Processing Corporation for the "Vpro Command Speech Recognition Engine". It is an extremely versatile program... but I don't find it to be as accurate as ExecuVoice is. I looked at the In Cube demo a long time ago and was impressed at the time. I never followed up. Are you aware that Microsoft is about to release a voice recognition package? I want to learn more about that one. Regarding Video for Windows... >> Hmm, interesting. does it include any special audio sounds? I'd think they'd put it into anything with audio in it. Since sound editing is definitely part of Video for Windows, they include an excellent wav editing program. But that's it. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Ricardo Belmar, 70054,3616 Msg#: #57904 TO: Bob Blow, 76546,230 Date: 10/24/93 10:35:22 PM Bob, >>> the "FB_11K8.dll"<<< From the name I would guess it's for 8-bit 11kHz sound, right? I'd bet MV doesn't include it because they're making an extra effort to point out it uses 16-bit sound (FB_22K16.dll). >>> I just wrote back to him to check for the Microsoft driver. <<< This will be very interesting. Have you checked the file I posted to the lib? It's worth your download to read the readme file included with the ms driver. It gives a brief description of what msacm.drv does. (It uses another driver too, BTW) I'm going to email the ms developer's for their thoughts as to why this driver could change Monologue's behavior. I'll keep you posted. >>>In Cube demo <<< I'm taking a closer look. I'll let you know what I think (It'll be awhile, though, many other things to do first) >>> Microsoft is about to release a voice recognition package?<<< I have read something about this. It's part of their v2.0 of the Windows Sound System right? I think they'll be selling the software w/out the hardware in a separate package. I think I have some news reports about it somewhere. I'll check. What have you heard? >>>Regarding Video for Windows...<<< Your message ended here?! Did WinCIM mess up the message on me, or is there more? Ricardo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Roger A. Kendall , 74650,3213 Msg# : 57813 TO: Ricardo Belmar , 70054,3616 Date : 10/24/93 12:53:25 AM thanks for the response....I hope a solution is found soon! Seems most people here ARE interested in temporary or voodoo fixes....some of us are more serious! Best wishes and I hope that someone among us finds a real fix! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Ricardo Belmar, 70054,3616 Msg#: #57902 TO: Roger A. Kendall, 74650,3213 Date: 10/24/93 10:12:35 PM Roger, >>>.I hope a solution is found soon!<<< Keep watching this forum. I will be emailing the appropriate microsoft people to ask about the msacm.drv during the coming week. I'll keep everyone here updated as I find out anything interesting. >>>Seems most people here ARE interested in temporary or voodoo fixes...<<< Maybe, but I know Bob Blow is interested in a permanent fix as well, and there are others. We're all just so excited that ANY fix has come about, it might just look that way. Ricardo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Roger A. Kendall , 74650,3213 Msg# : 57814 TO: Ricardo Belmar , 70054,3616 Date : 10/24/93 1:08:31 AM Thanks for the message...all I can say is that I got roasted on this board from saying something mildly antagonistic about MV...people said, look at Creative Labs, etc... who are worse! Well, there have been over 500 MV messages on this board since I logged on last, ten times as many as any other vendor on this section of CIS! I doubt, from inspection, that they are laurels of superior attainment! This is what is driving users away from the PC that I love and into the MAC which I hate (which is the most unintelligent design of an interface ever conceived -- non-hiearchical architecture is rediculous). Note that MV is STILL ISSUING UPDATES to over 300 users of the old, discredited dll call!!!! Come on!!! Can you imagine the bad will this is disseminating? Do you think anyone will, after receiving a fix that is as bad as the original documentation, buy a MV product? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Ricardo Belmar, 70054,3616 Msg#: #57903 TO: Roger A. Kendall, 74650,3213 Date: 10/24/93 10:28:06 PM >>>all I can say is that I got roasted on this board from saying something mildly antagonistic about MV...people said, look at Creative Labs<<< I'm sure I've been known to "roast" people saying bad things about MV... (CL really is worse though) I think we were even more unfortunate with this problem because we ran into a week or so period with no MV support people online. That's why there were so many unanswered messages. >>>away from the PC that I love and into the MAC which I hate<<< You don't know how happy I am to here someone say that! I'm not a Mac fan either, although they can have their uses, I feel just as you do. I am beginning to think that MV has been spending so much time developing new products lately, that they've been fumbling with "old stuff". They have great products, but I hope this improves, too. We could all use their help on Monologue. Ricardo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Roger A. Kendall , 74650,3213 Msg# : 57918 TO: Ricardo Belmar , 70054,3616 Date : 10/25/93 1:00:17 AM I now see that is true......sorry to have misinterpreted the situation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Roger A. Kendall , 74650,3213 Msg# : 57919 TO: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Date : 10/25/93 1:07:03 AM Thanks so much for the kind response! Unfortunately, every benchmark of total harmonic distortion and frequency bandwidth I have seen, and in addition, subjective aural evaluations, suggest the MV board is superior. So I am not inclined to switch .... yet. Another user (Mr. Belmar) suggests that MV has been very busy with new products lately. I now about several companies (which I once was associated with) that took that attitude and are GONE GONE GONE (to quote from Porgy and Bess, Act I). I suppose one could switch to the Turtle Beach system...expensive, but excellent in all tech specs. Does anyone know how 'universal' the MCI Mixer part is (i.e. for Soundblaster and Multisound)? Did anyone other than MV grab ahold of the earlier published (and now curiously squashed) spec? My app is highly dependent on mixer control! thanks...RAK ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 57988 TO: Roger A. Kendall , 74650,3213 Date : 10/25/93 8:57:28 PM Roger, > So I am not inclined to switch .... yet. Har! Well, I wasn't really suggesting anybody abandon Media Vision for a SoundBlaster-16 ASP. (g) I was just letting you know that it might be worth asking around to see if you could find someone who already had one... for the purpose of investigating the Monologue-16 files that Creative Labs provides. I know that's something I sure would like to do. But the only person I know with the card, bought it before Monologue was bundled. Rats. I'm sure there's something to be learned there. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 57987 TO: Ricardo Belmar , 70054,3616 Date : 10/25/93 8:57:24 PM Ricardo, > From the name I would guess it's for 8-bit 11kHz sound, right? I'd bet MV doesn't include it because they're making an extra effort to point out it uses 16-bit sound (FB_22K16.dll). Hmmmmm... I agree with the first sentence... but your second sentence almost suggests that Creative Labs is shortchanging their customers, giving them only an 8-bit version of the dll. (g) Wouldn't that be something. > Have you checked the file I posted to the lib? No, I hadn't bothered since I already had the driver. But you've got my interest up to learn more about the darn thing. I'll download it to get the readme file. Regarding Microsoft's voice recognition package... > It's part of their v2.0 of the Windows Sound System right? I think they'll be selling the software w/out the hardware in a separate package. Right. All I know is from a message posted by someone in another network. He says it also comes with a very futuristic mic on thin gooseneck stand. I happen to have my mic mounted in a similar fashion, so I know how effective that approach is for voice recognition. I'm ready to go for the Microsoft package, sight unseen. I like the idea of a voice recognition package to use in Windows from the same folk that brought us Windows in the first place. Should be well integrated, if you know what I mean. > Your message ended here?! Did WinCIM mess up the message on me, or is there more? Nope. OzCis messed it up on my end. (g) What I was going to say about Video for Windows is that since audio is very much part of VFW, the package does include an excellent wav editor. I use it occasionally... it does a superb job of changing sample rates for existing wav files. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Ricardo Belmar, 70054,3616 Msg#: #58091 TO: Bob Blow, 76546,230 Date: 10/26/93 5:10:36 PM Bob, >>>but your second sentence almost suggests that Creative Labs is shortchanging their customers<<< Heh, heh, I'd never suggest that. Seriously though, does CL say it is the 16-bit version? I also believe I saw a message here that someone only had a FB_11K8.dll, suggesting that maybe the file should be named like this regardless of the naming convention I suggested. What do you think? I'm afraid I don't know anyone with a SB so I can't look into that side of things. I found the newsbytes article where I read about MS's new voice software. Look very nice. Sayd it can extract vocabularies from any Windows program, can store many vocabularies, has improved accuracy (which doesn't say much to me since I never used their original voice stuff), and VoiceWizzards to make voice macros. That sounds intriguing. I hope the macro language is flexible enough for heavy duty-use. I wonder if there will be a programming interface via DLL or something similar? I'm sure it will be very integrated, expecially given what I've seen about their upcoming Visual Basic for Applications - which will not be given to other publishers. It'll be a MS apps only deal. By the way, I've got another neat little DLL you may be interested in (yes, another one from Microsoft - those guys are really busy aren't they?). It's a DLL that allows you to mix up to eight wave files into one channel. Currently it works with mono files, up to 44.1kHz and 16-bit (I think.) Anyway, it looks interesting, and they used it in their MS Arcade games for Windows product. Got your note on VFW, this time. Seems strange that they didn't bundle the msacm.drv with it. Still no word from the MS developers on msacm.drv and Monologue.... Ricardo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Bob Blow , 76546,230 Msg# : 58117 TO: Ricardo Belmar , 70054,3616 Date : 10/26/93 7:58:17 PM Ricardo, > Seriously though, does CL say it is the 16-bit version? Frankly, I'm not sure any more. (g) You can be sure I will pose that question back to the guy who has the SoundBlaster-16 ASP. However, if CL is not bundling the 16-bit version, I'm surprised there's even a FB_11K8.DLL with it. I have the bonefide 8-bit version of Monologue for Windows and it has no such dll. Always a mystery, eh? As for Microsoft's upcoming voice recognition package... > I wonder if there will be a programming interface via DLL or something similar? I'm sure it will be very integrated, expecially given what I've seen about their upcoming Visual Basic for Applications - which will not be given to other publishers. Unbelievable. Great minds must think alike. Those were exactly my thoughts when I mentioned that I was sold on the Microsoft package sight unseen... or should that be, speech unheard. (g) So far no one has told me when this package will be available. Soon I hope. > I've got another neat little DLL you may be interested in (yes, another one from Microsoft - those guys are really busy aren't they? Busy is an understatement! They seem to be coming out with something every week. BTW, you can keep the dll you mentioned. (g) Mixing 8 channels of wave is not something I need. > Got your note on VFW, this time. Seems strange that they didn't bundle the msacm.drv with it. Well, in a way I'm glad they didn't. Remember, it was only because one of ny systems was immune to mixer resetting problem that I kept hammering away at the subject. While others were going in a different direction for a workaround, I was sure the difference between my two systems could be identified. And, that's where you came in and found it. :-) Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FROM: Ricardo Belmar, 70054,3616 Msg#: #58233 TO: Bob Blow, 76546,230 Date: 10/27/93 5:22:14 PM >>> I have the bonefide 8-bit version of Monologue for Windows and it has no such dll. Always a mystery, eh?<<< No dll, huh? This is getting stranger by the minute... What is this FB_22K16.DLL for anyway? It's starting to seem like you only need FB_11K8.DLL... >>> or should that be, speech unheard. (g)<<< >>>when this package will be available<<< In an October 15th Newsbytes article Microsoft said "by the end of the month". It may be time to check in the MS Multimedia forum again.... >>>Well, in a way I'm glad they didn't.<<< I hadn't thought of it that way. Turned out to be a good thing then. Still waiting to hear from the MS developers on msacm.drv (guess their too busy writing new drivers and DLLs to do anything else).... Ricardo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------