========================================================================= (C) 1994 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 3 Tue Dec 22, 1992 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] (Forwarded) Sub: FALCON 030 - Help and Questions Ask here if you need help or have a technical question to ask about the FALCON 030 computer. This topic is designed to inform users about the FALCON and discuss it CURRENT details and characteristics. 200 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 1 Tue Jun 01, 1993 B.REHBOCK [BILL@ATARI] (Forwarded) Steffan, the Falcon's video output is as good as many $2000 JVC and Sony video titlers/sketch pads that I've seen. Cogswell College is doing some production work right now with a pair of Falcons at this time; I'll touch base with James Grunke and see if he can give us a report on how they're doing in a professional environment. -Bill ============= Falcon030 Bundled Software Bulletin =============== Falcon030's with Hard Drives are currently shipping with the following software: o MultiTOS o SpeedoGDOS o Landmines o Breakout o Calappt (Personal Time Manager, Telephone Book/Dialer) o ProCalc o Talking Clock They are supposed to have (many didn't because everyone was eager to get machines shipped to dealers quickly) a mail-in card that you mail to Atari to receive: o Atari Works (Personal Integrated Productivity Package) o System Audio Manager (Accompany System Keyclicks and Events with Digitized Sounds.) o Audio Fun Machine (8-band graphic equalizer and special effects processor.) o FalconD2D (Direct-to-Disk recording system with special effects and editing.) IMPORTANT: We know exactly which dealers received machines without the mail-in cards and they are being sent their cards this week. Users that purchased machines and did not receive these cards can contact the dealer in about one week to get their card. All you have to do is fill out the card (make sure you include your dealer's name and machine's serial number); keep the verification half, and mail the other half to Atari. Machines without Hard Drives will not be shipped with SpeedoGDOS, Atari Works, or FalconD2D. They will have everything else (including the hard disk utilities in case you have your own SCSI Hard Disk). The Atari Hard Disk upgrade kits will ship with Atari Works, SpeedoGDOS, FalconD2D, as well as MultiTOS, etc. on the Hard Disk. -Bill Rehbock, Atari Corp. ======================================================================= ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 2 Sun Jan 02, 1994 G.SIMUNOVICH at 02:41 EST Falcon Hard Disk Problems... I'm having problems with my Hardhard drive on my Falcon. (1 meg No HD verision upgrated to 14 meg Fujitsu M2624 520 meg Hard Drive.) . It seems that reading (maybe even writting) from it it skips a word, eg file looks like ...$010203040506$.... reading into buffer like ...$00000000... after reading it the buffer looks like ...$010200040506$... ^ What happens to the $03??? I have tried everything I can think of, two drivers (ICD BOOT and AHDI 6.061), no auto folder, no acc's. It seems to be down to 3 things, OS bug, SCSI control, drive problem (I am currently looking into possible interference problems in the drive case (ICD FA-ST case e: exposed power supply, electrical connection real close to the SCSI cable.) Anyone have any ideas, thoughts, or solution??? Thanks, George ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 3 Sun Jan 02, 1994 ICDINC at 09:20 EST George, You might try a ground strap from the drive to the Falcon. If you still can't get it to work, send the drive to Howard here at ICD and he will take a look at it. We have never 5tested our software on that brand of IDE drive. MAybe it is a timing problem or something. - TOM - ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 4 Sun Jan 02, 1994 G.SIMUNOVICH at 18:17 EST The Drivdrive is an external SCSI, no internal IDE drive in the computer. Also, is it possilble to auto boot with ICD software from this external drive, HDUTIL is useless (cann't do anything, ie. autoboot, wipe FATS, etc) only conifgure ICDBOOT works. George ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 5 Mon Jan 03, 1994 M.VANCLEAVE1 [MIDIMAN] at 03:57 EST I recently purchased a Falcon and have been having all sorts of problems trying to download from Genie. I am using an old SupraModem 2400 with Storm 1.02 etc. I have had no problems downloading from any other boards (bad CRC etc.). Any answers to this phenom would be appreciated!!!! ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 6 Mon Jan 03, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 05:44 EST Anyone know if LEMMINGS/OH NO! MORE LEMMINGS runs on a Falcon030 with the help of Backwards or Magi? Also, as someone who'll be getting a Falcon030 within the next 10 days, does anyone have any general advice? And one more thing... Where can I get a SCSI ribbon cable to regular SCSI port adaptor (I already know where to get a regular SCSI to SCSI-II cable)? G.SIMUNOVICH - You need ICD's Pro Utilities as their Host Adaptor Utilities require an ICD host adaptor to be present to use them. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 7 Mon Jan 03, 1994 S.WINICK at 07:43 EST Steve, >> Where can I get a SCSI ribbon cable to regular SCSI port >> adaptor ... Leave me E-mail. ;-] Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 8 Mon Jan 03, 1994 ICDINC at 11:25 EST Steve-J, We have the connectors for that type of cable in stock. Advice: Make sure that you get the monitor adapter(s) that you need. Atari has about 4 different models which are over-molded plugs. Have fun. - TOM - ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 9 Mon Jan 03, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 18:49 EST KenO, CALLTIM3 is neat, isn't it? (My upload.) Glad you got it working. It would be nice if someone could do a better one, though. I understand it calls the Naval Observatory, apparently a place where someone contemplates or at least observes his naval. Oh, that's navel. ;-) Happy new year. Sam, Doesn't Radio Shack have DB-19s? John, Another shameless plug. Ken Van ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 10 Mon Jan 03, 1994 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 20:37 EST MIDIMAN, Please download file #31020 which will explain how you can fix this problem with Aladdin and the Falcon. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 11 Tue Jan 04, 1994 B.SUGGS1 at 01:36 EST Get FPATCH2 and BMAPFIX2 here to start with. You also may need SSPEED the serial port won't work even though they claim it is supported. And lastly be prepared that alot of your ST software won't work. You can try a program called BACKWARD that may help with some incompatibilities but don't expect much. The best think I've found so far is to stay tuned here for info and advice. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 12 Tue Jan 04, 1994 W.JAMES-STEI [Wayne] at 02:36 EST Mike, You're right about the 16 meg. SIMMS . At the time I thought I could only use them in the Falcon. Now I know different. Bruce, Thanks for the address! wayne 1/3/94 ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 13 Tue Jan 04, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 04:47 EST S.WINICK, ICDINC, etc. - Thanks! I've already picked up a DB9-DB25 cable for the modem, (finally) upgraded to Warp 9 v3.80, bought a used 440MB SCSI drive for direct-to-disk recording (thanks for the help with that one, Tom -- the culprit turned out to be the SCSI ribbon cable, though the parity jumper also needed removing), and am planning on picking up a SC1224/SC1435 adaptor (I'm getting a VGA one along with a ScreenBlaster with the Falcon030) -- due to these other purchases, I can't afford a VGA/multisync monitor right away! -- later this week. I've also been downloading oodles of Falcon files. I'll also be picking up the ICD Pro Utilities soon, but I can live with Atari's HD utilities for a while (as long as they'll recognise a drive connected to the SCSI-II port in addition to the internal IDE without any problems). I'm just trying to think if there's anything else I need to get before my Falcon030 comes. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 14 Tue Jan 04, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 08:23 EST SteveJ, Congrats on the Falcon! :) Don't wait too long for ICD Pro. :) So, will you be using CAF, or waiting for LAF (Logic Audio Falcon)? --Kevin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 15 Tue Jan 04, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 19:00 EST What is Logic Audio Falcon? ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 16 Tue Jan 04, 1994 K.RICHARD2 [Bondservant] at 19:26 EST Steve I just hooke dup a quantum525sthru my scsi2 and AtariHDX they work great rick ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 17 Tue Jan 04, 1994 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 20:04 EST Steve, no problem with the Falcon & Atari's newer HDI recognising a SCSI hooked up to the SCSI port. Just read everything carefully and make SURE you pick the right drive to format . DO NOT just pick at random as there've been more than a few IDE drives formatted that way, much to the onwer's regret . Also.... if you've already gotten the new 3.80 version of Warp 9 then git over to the library here and download the patch from codehead to upgrade it to 3.81.... That will give you FULL ScreenBlaster compatibility! 3.80 is only partly ScreenBlaster compatible.... As for ScreenBlaster itself.... once you've tried it, you'll never go back unless you have to. Because of that.. try and get as good a VGA monitor as you can afford. I suggest a minimum of 15" and as wide a range of vertical refresh (50-100 Hz or better) and horizontal sweep (30-70 or so, wider is better). Gregg ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 18 Tue Jan 04, 1994 C.LABELLE [Tintin] at 20:53 EST Steve-J, I was unsuccessful to run Lemmings, Oh no! More Lemmings or Lemmings 2 The Tribes. The latter loads and looks like it's going to run, but crashes when the sound come on, or if you try to turn the sounds off. Worse, The Tribes don't even play on my 1040 TOS 1.0. You need TOS > 1 AND TOS < 4. You did buy mini-plug to RCA stereo adapters, right? Tintin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 19 Tue Jan 04, 1994 K.RICHARD2 [Bondservant] at 23:54 EST Kevin If I might add my 2 cents I waiting for Logic audio cause it looks like caf & laf will be the two main prgs available ,still trying to get DAME to record to ty it out , Barefoot has been waiting for D2D but they are not hopefull for the planned audio track for smpte track. I was going that route myself as I always get great deals from Dana & Jeff ( I demoed @ K.C. & Ashville for them in 93 since I was going anyways and they were not )such a deal I got on My barefoot Software.Have you heard of any other contenders or medium weights till LAF arrives .When I cal E-Magic thay would not give a definate date except the end of 1st quarter I hear it will be more powerful fir editing the CAF so I am waiting since I can't afford both since I got mmy 17" monitor and 525s Quantum drive (10ms)I can get another for 450.00 (cousin bought a few new @ auction and I get his cost)such a deal) still got a few he tested on his macs he now has 2 gig's and a few to get rid of.also have you heard of any decent multi track shareware?? Rick ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 20 Wed Jan 05, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 00:10 EST Rick, No decent shareware to do that kind of stuff. :) I've 'tried' CAF while I was helping to save a sale and get a better deal on my ADAT and accessories. :) It was good, but I think I'll wait for LAF. Since I just got the ADAT, a Jaguar, and some other goodies -- I think I can hold out until LAF arrives. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 21 Wed Jan 05, 1994 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 00:40 EST Much as I adore CAF's tapestrip interface, the other aspects of its digital audio leave much to be desired (IMHO). I have written to Steinberg with my complaints/suggestions but received no reply or other indication of upcoming improvements. I will be eyeing LAF with much interest, especially if they offer any kind of swap deal discount for turning in your Cubase dongle or something like that. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 22 Wed Jan 05, 1994 D.PHILLIPS24 [Darcy] at 00:41 EST Drhfrrr(whatever), Just to mention in case you don't know, you're SCSI drive needs to be set to device #0 in order to be recoginized. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 23 Wed Jan 05, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 02:33 EST Tintin, Have you tried Backwards yet? If not download it! You can get all kinds of stuff running. I haven't gotten Lemmings running though but Tribes might come up. Lemmings comes up on mine but the screen shakes and it locks up. I did mange to get a bunch of other games working that normally wouldn't though. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 24 Wed Jan 05, 1994 G.CHIU2 [Graham] at 03:40 EST My Falcon came with no manuals for Works, and GDos. GDos was on the drive, but when I tried to install it, it asked for disk SPD1 .. SPD4 to be inserted. Can someone tell me if there exist any manuals for the various stuff on the drive (Audio Fun Machine etc), and in relation to the above, which files go where to install SpeedoGDos? Thanks. Graham. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 25 Wed Jan 05, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 05:18 EST PG.MUSIC - My MIDI use has dwindled quite a bit (I went back to guitar as my primary instrument), so I don't find it at all worthwhile investing so much into C.A.F. I'll probably stick with strictly digital audio applications (and OMEGA II for MIDI stuff). AEO.7 - Well, the drives are already formatted. Codehead just shipped my Warp 9 upgrade on Monday, so it MAY already be v3.81. And concerning VGA/multisync monitors, I still have my heart set on a Multisync 3D. I doubt I'll ever use anything over 800x600 (especially on an unaccelerated F030! ), so I can live with a 14 incher -- MONITOR that is! . C.LABELLE - I have two such cables -- one for hooking my STE stereo outputs to some computer speakers and another one for I can't remember what. D.PHILLIPS24 - Already there! Thanks! Ooop! I just remembered something else -- I need to stop by Egghead Software and pick up the WORDPERFECT 6.0 FONTS for DOS by Bitstream (I tried to pick it up last week, but they had register lines winding through the aisles in the store!). G.CHIU2 - Did you buy your Falcon030 new or used? If new, then you should contact Atari about getting the manuals you're missing. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 26 Wed Jan 05, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 07:53 EST Steve-J Ahhh... now you need a MIDI-Guitar controller/ converter. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 27 Wed Jan 05, 1994 B.SUSLOVIC [Brad] at 19:01 EST I heard Steinbergs working on a Pitch to Midi converter module for CAF. Just kidding ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 28 Wed Jan 05, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 21:23 EST I'm not into MIDI much, but got a flier from Dr.T's on Omega II for $49.95, since I registered a piece of CZ software from them (I have a CZ101 and CZ1000) I bought at a closeout sale and haven't used. Does O II sound like a good entry-level program? Ken Van ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 29 Thu Jan 06, 1994 K.RICHARD2 [Bondservant] at 00:05 EST ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 30 Thu Jan 06, 1994 B.KANTOR [Bruce] at 00:07 EST I want to by a FPU for a Falcon 030. Can someone please provide installation instructions. Do I need anyuthing else besides the FPU? Where's the socket located? Are there different form-factors for the FPU chip (I want to make sure I get the right one). Thanks, Bruce ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 31 Thu Jan 06, 1994 CBARRON at 01:19 EST I have heard self-installation of an FPU.(68882) in a falcon will VOID YOUR WARRANTY... ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 32 Thu Jan 06, 1994 G.CHIU2 [Graham] at 01:39 EST I'm thinking of getting some of the Falcon specific games in - Steel Talons, Raiden etc. Do they demand the new joystick controllers, or will they work with the older type? If they require the new controllers, are these available only from Atari, and are they compatible with the Jag's controllers? Graham. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 33 Thu Jan 06, 1994 G.CHIU2 [Graham] at 02:23 EST STEVE-J I bought my Falcon new. I think I'm getting a lesson in what it is like being an Atari dealer. No sooner do I sign up, then they close down the local (New Zealand) office, and shrink Atari Australia (though there may have been a management buyout there). I would like to contact Atari - but they didn't leave a forwarding address! E-mail to Bob Brodie for assistance has so far gone unanswered. Perhaps I should close my shop and log onto the Atari Dateline this Friday ( 9 am Saturday my time ??)! ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 34 Thu Jan 06, 1994 B.KOLINS1 [Brian] at 04:01 EST Steve J, Did the doctor hit you up recently for a hundred bucks for "the first Omega upgrade in years". If so was it worth it? Ken, Omega's beyond entry-level (although there's presumably better stuff out there). $49.95? Is it really possible? Bruce, I just got a 68882-20 at a great price from Cybercube (over in section 7) with complete instructions (couldn't have been simpler--unless Atari had them in already). I'm not implying you should jump on voiding your warranty. It's your call. It was less painful when Atari only had a 90 warranty on their stuff. Understand too that, having been a dealer myself, I'm quite familiar with the guts :) --Brian ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 35 Thu Jan 06, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 04:50 EST PG.MUSIC - And destroy the sound of my guitar??? Ick!!! As far as I'm concerned, guitar synths are interesting toys, but I'd never seriously use one (until they make them flawless!). G.CHIU2 - STEEL TALONS and RAIDEN aren't even available yet for the Falcon (unless you know something I don't). However, one of the holdups on Falcon- specific (and even some STE-specific) games was supposedly waiting for controllers that will utilise the enhanced controller ports (Atari has been nudging developers towards using them). Now that the Jaguar controllers are available separately (they also list the STE and Falcon on the box), I've heard that some STE-only (ROAD RIOT and STEEL TALONS) and Falcon-only games are going to be released shortly. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 36 Thu Jan 06, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 04:53 EST Graham, I'm pretty sure the Jag controllers are the new controllers.:-) They have a standard Mini 15 pin jack. 3 rows of 5 pins. They're nice controllers too! ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 37 Thu Jan 06, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 05:16 EST B.KOLINS1 - Nope! $49.95 (+ $5 shipping)! Can't complain about that! I KNEW waiting this time rather than being one of the first people to jump in on an upgrade would pay off. IMO, Dr. T's upgrade prices have seemed a bit steep for what they were. I started using KCS w/ v1.5 and had I gotten EVERY upgrade, I would have invested around $400+ in KCS. Luckily, my bargain shopping skills have let me use the latest KCS all this time (over 6 years!) for a total investment of only $200 (including the new upgrade...err...'introductory offer' ). ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 38 Thu Jan 06, 1994 B.SEMAAN [BOSEM] at 07:09 EST Joey, Would you have the time to list the software you've been able to use with Backwards? I think all of us falcon owner's should start posting lists of what games, etc. that can be made compatible by a program such as Backwards. Maybe even a 'Backwards compatible' topic is warranted. I don't have many games but I will certainly start trying them out and compiling a list of the ones that do and don't work. Bob ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 39 Thu Jan 06, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:26 EST Brian, Yup. The notice is right in front of me. "Dear Atari owner,....We're making OMEGA II available to you at the _special introductory price of just $49.95_ (plus $5 shipping and handling) - that's $150 off the retail price!" I thought I might get it to get started with MIDI. Sounds like a good price, but maybe too advanced? Ken Van ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 40 Thu Jan 06, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 08:18 EST Steve-J, not a Guitar Synth. A midied-guitar. :) Mix that midi with the reeeeel geetar sound. :) I doubt midi guitars will be glitch free anytime soon. However, I've found that playing with the midi tracking helps me to improve the cleanliness of my playing a lot. :) Oopsss... back to the MidiRT... Well... I wanna get some good driving games. Texture mapped 3d cars, roads everything! Shaded, light sources, killer stereo music on the radio. :) I also wanna be able to drive off road etc. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 41 Thu Jan 06, 1994 B.SEMAAN [BOSEM] at 08:22 EST I have been told by Atari Developer support that the Jaguar and Falcon/STe controllers are definitely one and the same. They said they are calling it the 'Power Pad'. Bob ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 42 Thu Jan 06, 1994 ICDINC at 08:41 EST Bruce, The 68882 in the Falcon is the PLCC type. I would recommend a 33MHz version since it may be possible to boost the FPU speed (to 32MHz). I don't know what Ralf is selling the 20MHz version for but Hamilton/Avnet sells the 33MHz version for about $60. They may be availabvle for less. Do not buy the PGZA version since that is a different socket. The FPU socket is underneath the power supply and you just plug it in with no jumper changes. - TOM - ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 43 Thu Jan 06, 1994 ATARI.BENLUX [W. Kilwinger] at 08:47 EST G.CHIU2 [Graham]: >I bought my Falcon new. I think I'm getting a lesson in what it is like being >an Atari dealer. No sooner do I sign up, then they close down the local (New >Zealand) office, and shrink Atari Australia (though there may have been a >management buyout there). I would like to contact Atari - but they didn't >leave a forwarding address! > >E-mail to Bob Brodie for assistance has so far gone unanswered. > >Perhaps I should close my shop and log onto the Atari Dateline this Friday ( 9 >am Saturday my time ??)! I don't have phone or fax numbers but this seems to be their most actual address: Atari Computers PTY Ltd North Ryde NSW 2113 Australia I hope it helps. Regards, Wilfred ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 44 Thu Jan 06, 1994 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 12:12 EST Bob has been busy due to CES. Anyone that has attended or prepared for such a show would understand. I know, I do. Wilfred: You are an asset to this RT. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to thank each and everyone that takes the time to post and help others out. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 45 Thu Jan 06, 1994 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 19:04 EST Ken, No way is O2 entry-level. It's probably the hardest to learn. Took me several months but it has an impressive list of features and it might be worth buying it at the low price and taking your time. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 46 Thu Jan 06, 1994 B.KOLINS1 [Brian] at 19:34 EST Steve-J, I'll have to have a little chat with the doctor. Logic dictates that spending $49 for Omega is the definitive path. Who in their right mind would drop the $100 on the upgrade? I haven't faired to badly since there was a big lapse in ny version numbers. The doctor made me a reasonable offer I could'nt refuse-- but I agree about their excessive upgrade charges. Ken, I'd jump on it. The tape transport interface makes it easy no matter how involved you what to get with it. BTW, the 68882-20 was (if memory serves) about $35 plus S&H. --Brian ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 47 Thu Jan 06, 1994 C.LABELLE [Tintin] at 20:42 EST Joey, Yes, I've tried Backwards. I find there are a lot of settings to adjust, and remember spending an hour or two trying to get Lemmings to run. I'm ready to give another try. Now that Alladin and STOS work, we might as well continue the ST-to-Falcon conversion. Bob Semaan: Topic 4 is the Falcon compatibility topic. Also in the library there is a compatibility list. Backwards isn't the only program of its type. There's FBOOT and MAGI also. Graham: Install the S-GDOS from the floppies. There is an install program on floppy 1. I assume you have four floppies for S-GDOS? To answer your question, check if you have the following files: You need SPDGDOS.PRG in AUTO and EXTEND.SYS in C: root. You can modify the configuration with OUTLINE.PRG for the fonts and DRIVERS.PRG for the printers selection. Finally you should have a FONTS folder somewhere on your hard drive, for your S-GDOS fonts, and a DRIVERS folder for printers. If EXTEND.SYS is not there I think it will get created by the OUTLINE.PRG. Tintin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 48 Thu Jan 06, 1994 C.FLUEGEL [Curt] at 23:45 EST LAF? They aren't opening themselves for flames there.. anyway.. the only problem with Logic is the change in distributer (Ensoniq to Thinkware).. Ensoniq offered great support, Thinkware is a GREAT company but Im not sure about end user support... that and Logic by itself is slow as death, now add audio to it... Don't get me wrong, I cant wait to see it. But I own CAF, and give me a secondary editting program and Im a happy guy. Also, over on Compuserve (can I say that?) Wolfgang from Steinberg Germany makes a daily presence. If anyone has questions for Steinberg type em and send them to me. I will compile them and post over there (funny, because step entry in the drum editor has ALWAYS worked, but no one knew how to use it, Steinberg/Jones called it a bug, it wasnt, they were just doing it wrong.. it pays to go direct..) (ps sorry about all the ...) Curt- Guitar Center@MPLS ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 49 Fri Jan 07, 1994 M.WORLEY3 [Michael] at 03:23 EST Bob, I've used BACKWARD to get 'Civilization' working on the Falcon. Great game! /\/\ichael \/\/orley ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 50 Fri Jan 07, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 03:49 EST REALM - Actually, the Jag controller only has 12 pins -- pins 5, 8, and 15 aren't there. According to my STE Addendum, that's "PAD0Y," "Not Connected," and "PAD0X" ("PAD1Y" and "PAD1X" for controller port B), respectively. Well, I am now Falcon030-ready! I just picked up a SCSI-2 cable and SCSI ribbon-to-SCSI centronics adaptor for $35 (at a COOL local electronics supply store -- I talked them down from $38 just for the SCSI-2 cable!), an ST Video Adaptor plug from my local Atari dealer (IB Computers -- I HATE going there!), and the WordPerfect 6.0 Font Pack for DOS package ($18.88 @ Egghead Software w/ CUE card) today and when I got home, my Warp 9 3.80 (3.81?) upgrade was waiting in my mailbox. What a beautiful day! The only thing that would have made it more perfect would be if my Falcon030 was ALSO waiting for me when I got home. I guess I have to wait until Monday or Tuesday, though. I've also been busy FTP'ing every Falcon-related file that is available. By the way, could someone who has the 10MB F_ROLL demo please upload it to atari.archive.umich.edu (but NOT as one file, as someone did with the SPACE JUNK demo!)? ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 51 Fri Jan 07, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 04:01 EST Bosem, there's a list already in the library! I think you just search for Falcon? I didn't haven't anything that wasn't already on that list. I did get Captain Blood to work though and I think it's marked as not working. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 52 Fri Jan 07, 1994 G.CHIU2 [Graham] at 05:23 EST STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] >G.CHIU2 - STEEL TALONS and RAIDEN aren't even available yet for the Falcon >(unless you know something I don't). However, one of the holdups on Falcon- There was a demo Falcon doing the rounds of the dealers here in NZ. On it were Steel Talons, Raiden, and Humans (aka Dino Dudes on the Jag). I hadn't realised that they weren't available commercially yet. I didn't have long to play with them - but certainly Steel Talons didn't respond to a joystick plugged into the falcon's belly. ATARI.BENLUX [W. Kilwinger] >I don't have phone or fax numbers but this seems to be their most actual >address: > >Atari Computers PTY Ltd North Ryde NSW 2113 Australia I have their fax number - they just don't respond :-( C.LABELLE [Tintin] >Install the S-GDOS from the floppies. There is an install program on floppy 1. >I assume you have four floppies for S-GDOS? Nope, it was all in a directory on the hard drive labelled GDOS >You need SPDGDOS.PRG in AUTO and EXTEND.SYS in C: root. You can modify the >configuration with OUTLINE.PRG for the fonts and DRIVERS.PRG for the printers I think I managed to work out most of this yet it still couldn't find the graphic fonts when I started up Works. However, help may be at hand - a local user has offered me copies of the installation disks. I don't think I'll ask him where he got his copy from ... The other nice thing I've recently obtained is an 8 high density disk point of sale demo ( takes up about 11 megs ) which appears to have been authored by a music shop in Sydney - presumably for Atari Australia. Lots of pics of girls in swim suits! Don't think I'll be uploading this :-) ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 53 Fri Jan 07, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 06:31 EST If specific settings in Backwards are required, it would be nice to know that, too. Ken Van ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 54 Fri Jan 07, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 07:37 EST B.KOLINS1 - I think it may just be a special offer for people who've just recently registered another Dr. T's product with them. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 56 Fri Jan 07, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 18:04 EST Thanks, Flakes and Brian. So maybe I should just take advantage of the price deal, and keep it for when I'm ready for it. Maybe I can do something with it. Steve-J, Sounds like you're getting excited about your Falcon-030! So you use umich.edu. I should check it out. Ken Van ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 57 Fri Jan 07, 1994 D.SMITH200 [Dave] at 20:13 EST Joey, Could you email me the settings you used to get Capt. Blood working on the Falcon? It's been sitting in a box since the last time I had TOS 1.2 up on my machines! Thanx, Dave. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 58 Sat Jan 08, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 01:04 EST Dave, I don't remember it was back around July, I think I just used the defaults. Sometimes I move the starter program out of it's AUTO folder and run it from the desktop. I've been able to get a couple games to run on the TT doing that. Star Wars and Star Glider for example. I guess we can conclude they'll work if they start with Star.:-) If you can't get it working let me know and I'll figure out what I did exactly. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 59 Sat Jan 08, 1994 D.ALFONSO1 [D.ALFONSO] at 02:09 EST HI, I've been having problems with my Falcon not always recognizing my external SCSI drives. It seems I can usually get it to see them if I wiggle the connector before booting up, but I sometimes lose them again after a while and that can sometimes be BAD news. I've screwed up a partition on one of my Syquest carts because of this and I'd like to get it fixed once and for all. Is this connected to the hard drive screw/spring problem that Kevin has mentioned a few times in the past? I'd also like to eliminate the bass boost on the audio output at the same time as I fix the hard drive problem. So, if anyone could please give a detailed description of how to fix either of these problems, I'd greatly appreciate it. I bought the Falcon used, so I'd rather do it myself (I'm not afraid to give it a try) if at all possible. Thanks in advance.....David ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 60 Sat Jan 08, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 04:53 EST K.VANDELLEN - Don't worry! It's an Atari product, so I SHOULD end up being disappointed EVENTUALLY! I'm mainly getting it for the digital audio applications (and better graphics). If it weren't for the digital audio, I wouldn't get one unless someone GAVE it to me since Atari's essentially killed off its computer line (and it sounds like they may be killing off the Jaguar soon too!). By the way, someone in the MIDI RT mentioned that they had data corruption problems with their Falcon030 if they had HD partitions larger than 250MB. Anyone know anything about this? ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 61 Sat Jan 08, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 06:32 EST Steve-J, Might be. I registered something in the last year or so. Ken Van ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 62 Sat Jan 08, 1994 S.WINICK at 07:10 EST David, >> I've been having problems with my Falcon not always recognizing >> my external SCSI drives. It seems I can usually get it to see >> them if I wiggle the connector before booting up... Sounds like you might have a bad connector on the end of your SCSI-2 cable. Try another SCSI-2 cable. You should note also that there are several different qualities of SCSI-2 cables around. The better ones are heavily shielded, the cheaper ones are not. With the close proximity of all of the Falcon's standard built-in ports, I would definitely recommend a heavily shielded SCSI-2 cable. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 63 Sat Jan 08, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 07:11 EST Steve-J, David Fairweather stated that CAF doesn't like partitions bigger than 256Meg. The Falcon itself won't care. We had several 500meg partitions with a huge drive connected to my F030. We didn't have the same problem with CAF. --Kevin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 64 Sat Jan 08, 1994 ICDINC at 08:06 EST ]KEvin, There was a limit in older TOS versions that kept 256 MB partitions as the max size without corruption. Did you actually copy data on to these drives past 265 MB? I would question whether these partitions were actually good. ICD HD software allows 2 times that limit (512 MB per partition). Were you using our software? - TOM - ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 65 Sat Jan 08, 1994 B.SEMAAN [BOSEM] at 08:26 EST David, The falcon analog audio out uses the LM386, which is a very common amp and my guess is that the circuit Atari used is the one right out of the National Semiconductor Linear Databook. I've also seen it in many audio project books and magazines. But if you don't have anything with it described, the package is an 8 pin dip (probably the surface mount version) and the standard bass boost circuit calls for a series RC from pins 1 (gain) to 5 (output) using a 10k resistor and .033 uf cap (poly or mylar). You would need to break this circuit. The easiest way would be to cut pin 1. The best way would be to find the right resistor and cap and remove or cut them. Note: Just because National recommends the above size components does not mean Atari used them. But they should be within 25% of those values. Happy hunting. Bob ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 67 Sat Jan 08, 1994 D.ALFONSO1 [D.ALFONSO] at 15:31 EST Sheldon, The reason I believe my problem is in the Falcon is that I tested both my hard drive and the cable pretty thoroughly on a friends Falcon and couldn't get it to screw up at all. Also, since it comes on line if I press down on the connector, I'm assuming there is something on the other side of the connector that is shorting out. Then again, what do I know? Bob, Thanks for the reply. I guess I'll see if anything you've said means anything to me when I open it up . David ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 70 Sat Jan 08, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 20:39 EST Tom, That was with AHDI and ICD Pro. We had to use AHDI to run CAF, but the ~500meg partitions were picked up by ICD Pro too. I booted AHDI by putting AHDI on a floppy and then just autobooting from floppy. --Kevin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 71 Sat Jan 08, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 21:12 EST Darkchild, I wouldn't worry about Atari killing off anything. They've been screwing up everything since 86 according to us users.:-) Just use your computer or Multimedia product and have fun. There's plenty computer stuff out there to buy now. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 72 Sat Jan 08, 1994 D.PHILLIPS24 [Darcy] at 22:42 EST D.ALFONSO, I had an experience with one of the three Falcons I worked with before Christmas that sounds similar. Used it with my HD, took it in to have one of the CAF audio mods done, brought it home, and it would not see the same HD at all. Period. Took it back, and got another one, so I can't tell you what the problem was. I could only guess it had something to do with having the audio mod done. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 73 Sat Jan 08, 1994 R.IRBY3 [Roy] at 23:02 EST Arrrgh! I'm going nuts trying to figure out what's up with my Falcon telecommunications problems. So heres the low-down. Hopefully someone can help me out... I'm using a USR Sporster 14.4 and Stalker. I don't have a problem with normal online activities (chatting, message reading, etc.), but file xfers are awful. I'm only getting 1300 cps at best, and am now getting loads of errors. For instance, on uploads, everything goes fine (around 2000 cps) for a bit then the CS (Clear-to-Send) led starts bugging out and I get repetitive Repositioning at offset... messages from Stalker. I also tried Flash/XYZ and still had the same problem (possibly ruling out a terminal program problem). So, here's my Auto Folder prgs, accs, cpxs, and Modem settings: AUTO FOLDER ACCESSORIES CPX's FPATCH CALL_UIS GENERAL BMAPFIX2 SAMCNFIG COLORVDI JAR10 EOSTIMER FSOUND WARP9_FA CHMELEON WCOLORS MOVEPICS XCONTROL CLIPBRD SAM WARP9_CP MODEM SPDGDOS PRINTER UISIII CONFIG DMIRROR NVRAM DCMSHIFT SAM_SET POINTER(MOUSE MATZ) FAST_SER USRobotics Sportster 14400 NVRAM Settings... DIAL=TONE B0 F1 M3 X4 BAUD=38400 PARITY=N WORDLEN=8 &A3 &B1 &G0 &H1 &I0 &K1 &M4 &N0 &P0 &R2 &S0 &T5 &Y1 S02=043 S03=013 S04=010 S05=008 S06=002 S07=060 S08=002 S09=006 S10=007 S11=070 S12=050 S13=000 S14=000 S15=000 S19=000 S21=010 S22=017 S23=019 S24=000 S25=005 S26=000 S27=000 S28=008 S29=020 S31=000 S32=000 S33=000 S34=006 S35=000 S36=000 S37=000 S38=000 S41=000 S42=000 S43=000 S44=015 S51=000 I have tried disabling everything as well as trying the factory modem settings. I have also tried backing down to 19200 on the Computer-Modem connection, and running on both Serial Port and the TT/MSte Modem Port. Also, with Aladdin @ 9600, I get around 600 cps. I don't know if this is normal or not. EXPERIENCED FALCON OWNERS.... HELP!!! Roy. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 74 Sat Jan 08, 1994 B.KANTOR [Bruce] at 23:27 EST Tom @ ICD, Thanks for the 68882 info. Does it only go in one way or do I need to worry about which side is left/right or up/down depending on socket direction? Regards, Bruce ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 75 Sun Jan 09, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 00:19 EST As long as we're thinking about MIDI on the Falcon, is the Band in a Box a good choice for a beginner? Did we establish that it runs on the Falcon? Ken Van ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 76 Sun Jan 09, 1994 ICDINC at 00:48 EST Bruce, No problem. I think all the modern PLCC sockets are now polarized so it will be difficult to install it wrong unless you try upside down. :-( One of the 4 corners will have a notch molded in that will match the 68882. It was a real no brainer to install. - TOM - ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 77 Sun Jan 09, 1994 K.RICHARD2 [Bondservant] at 02:53 EST Ken You can go to the Midi section and check it out but B&B only works in 2 color 8o column mode and only partially you cannot use user styles It is currently being upgrade but thsy are not beta testing yet ad far as I've heard.I can't wait till I can us eit again I even offer to Beta since I'm a reg. user user ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 78 Sun Jan 09, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 05:51 EST R.HALL49 - To make a long story short, Atari just doesn't have enough resources to make the Jaguar amount to a hill of beans. By Atari's own estimates, it would probably take them at least 2 years or more to even PRODUCE enough Jaguars to make that big of a dent in the home video game market. It's CERTAINLY a da_n fine piece of equipment, though (but then their computers were too!). K.VANDELLEN - BAND IN A BOX will run on a Falcon030 as long as you run it in certain video modes (don't ask ME which ones, though). Okay, so what are the widely agreed upon procedures for making the audio input line level instead of mic level and audio ouput line level and w/o bass-boost? Also, just because I'm too lazy to look it up right now, which side of a Centronics SCSI connector (female end) has pin 1? Looking at it like: _____________ L \___________/ R The left side or right side? ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 79 Sun Jan 09, 1994 ICDINC at 08:54 EST Steve, Looking at the female end, pin 1 is on the right. - TOM - ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 80 Sun Jan 09, 1994 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 13:06 EST Band-in-a-Box User Styles work just fine on my Falcon. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 81 Sun Jan 09, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 17:15 EST DrHfuhruhurr, I'm having trouble getting connected to Atari Archive. Is there a trick or am I stoopid? Enjoy the Falcon, I like mine a lot. Wayne - Friday, January 07, 1994 - 09:54 p.m. PST ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 82 Sun Jan 09, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 21:36 EST Ken Van, Band in a Box is a good choice for a beginner to use. It works on the Falcon "BUT"... It only works in 640x480x2color mode. Some others have even reported problems with that screen mode on occasion. However, BiaB version 6.0 is due out the 1st half of this year. If I could only get over the flu and this fever (sweating like crazy at the moment)... so I can get back into programming BiaB 6.0. Come check out CAT40, Top 1 of the MidiRT on page 430 for more info on BiaB. Type M430;1 to get to the MidiRT. --Kevin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 83 Sun Jan 09, 1994 B.SEMAAN [BOSEM] at 23:51 EST David A., I want to impress upon you that if you have no experience with tracing signals, altering circuit boards, soldering & unsoldering, etc. you are better off having someone who does know how modify your machine. Anyone who can work on a TV or stereo should have no problem doing it. Just tell them its an LM386 with the bass boost circuit. You'd be surprised at how popular this circuit is. Anybody that tells you they are not familiar with it does not know current audio electronics. Another thing I should mention is that you will lose the ability to plug directly into headphones or those mini-speakers if you disable the bass-boost. The (relatively) low impedance of headphones and speakers will suck the low frequency response right out the window. At 600 ohms or more this is not a problem. Man with 2 brains, The audio out is max 2V RMS @ 32+ ohms. You should have no problem going into any pro level board, or else use software that has control over output levels. Remember that's 2V maximum, pro gear inputs (+4dBm) are 1.23V RMS nominal @ 600 ohms, semi-pro gear (-10dBV) is .316V RMS nominal @ ~10K ohms. As long as you feed an input of 32 ohms or greater you should be OK. See the above msg to David A. concerning feeding inputs of less than 600 ohms. The inputs are low (~100K) impedence, microphone level. The cheap way to interface them with outputs from synths and CD players is to make a cable with a sub-mini (walkman type) stereo plug at one end and whatever kind of plug(s) you need at the other. The one catch is that you must put a 200K-220K 1/8 watt metal film resistor somewhere between each end of the cable in each channel. If you are hooking up to the output of a synth or mixer and can use 1/4" phone plugs you're task is easy - just solder one end of the resistors to the hot (tip) of the plugs and solder the other end to the cable. Heat shrink tubing or some electrical tape works well for insulating the wire from ground. The only problem you might encounter would be with high impedence sources, in which case you would definitely want to use a buffer or run through a mixer first. bad diagram of one channel line input cable signal falcon output 200k 1/8w input - sub-mini stereo phono @--------\/\/\/\-----------------------@ | | | | grnd grnd ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 84 Mon Jan 10, 1994 S.DANUSER [Soul Manager] at 01:13 EST There must be some newcomers around. I find it hard to believe that anyone would doubt Atari's ability to screw up a product's success. I'm still suprised that Atari didn't jinx the whole PC market when they started selling clones. Then again, maybe the fact that you could emulate a Mac on the ST balanced things out. Soul Manager ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 85 Mon Jan 10, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 06:03 EST ICDINC - Thanks again, Tom! HEAD.TRIP - Where are you FTP'ing from? The site is atari.archive.umich.edu (login: anonymous, password: your Internet mail address). If lines are tied up, try msdos.archive.umich.edu instead (it's usually faster anyway!). B.SEMAAN - Thanks for the info! Everything goes through a mixer first. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 86 Mon Jan 10, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:24 EST Kevin, Thanks. Hope you're feeling better. SM, I'm an oldtimer. (Atari since 12/81.) Atari screws up, but _they're still around_. Maybe they'll get it right this time. While there's life, there's hope. Ken Van ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 87 Tue Jan 11, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 03:44 EST Steve-J, Two years isn't long considering the time to produce a a decent game or CD title. Longer times for advanced software is going to become a standard. BTW, I believe Popa Jack has enough money of his own to put Atari anywhere he wants. Basically, I think at this point they can do whatever they wish. This is the wrong topic to polute with this discussion though.:-) Soul Manager, Nope, I've been here since the 8bit days.:-) I've always considered Atari the lesser of evils. It may not be popular and I might not agree with them but at least it's fun! Besides, no matter how badly they do, they've still sold more computers then me. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 88 Tue Jan 11, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 05:09 EST Within 7-15 hours, I will have my very own Falcon030 -- LOOK OUT, WORLD! And within 7.5-22 hours, I'll probably have questions! ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 89 Tue Jan 11, 1994 AEO.MAG [Nat'l Champs] at 17:05 EST Steve, Here's the first answers: No. No. Yes. There's a CPX for that. Rebooting. "Belgium." --Travis ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 90 Tue Jan 11, 1994 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 19:34 EST And within a week you'll be looking at ads for DOS or Apple machines longinly. ~:^)X ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 91 Tue Jan 11, 1994 BBRADLEY [HOT DOG] at 21:13 EST Flakes, Your right, Dr.hufufufufufu (what ever) will be looking at DOS and Apple machines longinly... wishing they would get their buts in gear and catch up to Atari. Since 1985 I have had ST's on my desk in one form or another... now a TT and a Falcon. I have had three different DOS boxes in less that two years. If you're a .bat file fan or if you like to watch Windozzzz flop along you can have 'em. But I have to get work done. The menus on the ST/TT/Falcon are the easiest to follow and require fewer mouse-clicks-per-mile to get where your going. I've tried publishing on the DOS machine, even with Quark, and you can't beat what you can do on the Atari with Calamus and PageStream. And I could rave on but this ought to be enough to start a feud. Don't worry Dr.hhfhfhfhhhf... You'll love your bird. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 92 Tue Jan 11, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 21:55 EST I think what we have to keep in perspective is what we have a computer for. If your computer does what you want to do, keep it, use it, and enjoy it. If it doesn't perhaps you can find one that will. It would be nice if Atari sold a bunch of computers so there would be a greater variety of software or a greater assurance that existing developers would be able to stay in business. Other than that, it doesn't really matter to me if Atari is somewhat of a bit player. I'm very happy with my Mega STE and Falcon, and would have a very difficult time choosing a replacement if I were ever forced to do so. I don't have to have the biggest, fastest,..., etc. A lot of people get a little silly with cars, clothes, houses, etc. I can't see spending a bunch of money to get more expensive things that don't do what I want any better than what I have. Enjoy your Falcon, Steve. Ken Van ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 93 Tue Jan 11, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 23:19 EST Well, I'm a proud new Falcon030 owner! I haven't delved into it that much yet (I've had it less than an hour!), though. One reason is because I'm a bit puzzled... I don't know why, but it's not recognizing all the partitions on my external SCSI drive. The internal IDE has 4 partitions (C-F) and the SCSI drive has 8 partitions (used to be C-J and SHOULD now be G-N), but I'm only getting the first 4 partitions of the SCSI drive. Any ideas??? ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 94 Wed Jan 12, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 00:01 EST STeve-J, Don't worry too much since I know you'll be using the Falcon for music. My 486 still slows down some midi sequences when I download stuff in the BKGD. And that is at 2400 baud! Also, IRQ settings, etc are a real royal pain in the rear. Sure, the simple PC stuff is pretty much plug 'n play these days, but one or two poor install programs can really munge up the works. Hehe... WinDoze dumped me back to the C:\ prompt twice last night when I was logging off of CI$ with CIM. Fun fun... time to edit the configuration once again... I like my 486, but the Falcon IS more fun. It is so easy to program for, write music with, etc. DTP, well... Atari Works isn't as easy for me to use as Word for Win (I like), but most other stuff... And remember... when I get done with the PG Music Atari stuff. It does all the Windoze & Mac versions do, often better. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 95 Wed Jan 12, 1994 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 00:06 EST Steve-J, are you using the Atari Hard Disk Driver or ICD? ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 96 Wed Jan 12, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 00:40 EST Well, I figured out that Atari's FANTASTIC hard drive utilities only allow 4 partitions per physical drive, so I guess THAT'S why I'm missing partitions. Any workaround without having to reformat it (I read part of the Extended Partitioning section of the HDX docs)? That is, other than getting the infinitely better ICD SCSI Pro Utilities (which I'm working on getting)? If I HAVE to reformat my drive (well, repartition it anyway), I guess I can live with that, but if it weren't for Atari's cruddy software... ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 97 Wed Jan 12, 1994 BBRADLEY [HOT DOG] at 01:14 EST Steve, Is you SCSI drive a Syquest? If it is the Atari HDX will only recognize 4 partitions on it. Hot Dog ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 98 Wed Jan 12, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 03:41 EST Ack! NOW I realize that I can't format my SCSI drive since I don't want to lose the data on it (and it has most of my stuff on it!!!). So now I CAN'T do anything until I get the ICD SCSI Pro Utilities (even though right now I just NEED the ICD HD booter to recognize the other partitions). So why did Atari put that stupid 4-partition limit there? ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 99 Wed Jan 12, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 05:19 EST BBRADLEY - No, it's a 440MB Seagate. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 100 Wed Jan 12, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 06:36 EST Steve, Dump that Atari junk and get the ICD Pro utilities. ICD software is a hundred times better. You don't have that stupid 4 partition limit crap with ICD. ICD's software is also MUCH faster at formatting & partitioning. Atari's stuff is NOT allowed near my drives. :-) ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 101 Wed Jan 12, 1994 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 19:10 EST My complaint is waiting. I waited a year for the Falcon. Months upon months for software updates, (some of which may never come!) The machine has great potential but alas... I've heard of programs that have city atlases, weather mapping & hurricane plotting. Having a DOS machine would allow me to hook my CC terminal directly to my database program as I've seen in stores. I'd love to do these things on my STE but the support just isn't there. I love the way the machines work and I suppose they're quite fast enough but the way things look they are sure to soon be left behind. Having invested a large sum of money in a digital audio program I'll probably keep the Falcon for my studio use but I'll probably sell my STE and switch over to some other platform for my balloon business that allows me to do more. P.S. I'm also dissatisfied with the tax preparation programs available. I'm waiting for the Tax Wizard demo but I don't have high hopes. What I really want is something that integrates into my accounting software, (Pha$ar) so that at the end of the year I just run it and my taxes are essentially done! ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 102 Thu Jan 13, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 00:58 EST R.WATSON15 - The problem is that I'll have to wait a few days to get the ICD SCSI Pro Utilities!!! If I'd known before hand, I would've made sure I got them before I got my Falcon030 (or I would've formatted the drive differently so that I could use it!). Now I'm just screwed for a few days! I was messing around and noticed that my old ICD booter would boot the IDE drive, but choke as soon as it didn't find the ICD host adaptor. I guess I should've kept my STE another day or two like I was originally planning on should something such as this happen. Unfortunately, I got my F030 a day later than I expected and the guy who I sold my STE to was waiting for me to ship it. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 103 Thu Jan 13, 1994 J.KRACHT [James Kracht] at 02:10 EST Dr., er, Steve: Don't worry (and don't ever mention AHDI again! :-) there is still plenty you can do. I most strongly recommend a fractal program known, basically, as MNDL_INT.. Get version 2.26. Uses the DSP to do some amazing fractals in seconds... it is in the library here somwhere. Probably MNDL_226.LZH. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 104 Thu Jan 13, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 05:29 EST Steve, Yea, that should be one of the recommendations for future Falcon owners. Get the ICD Pro software. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 105 Thu Jan 13, 1994 C.LABELLE [Tintin] at 22:35 EST DrHfuhruhurr, You may want one extra-large partition for digital recording. At 7 meg a minute, it can fill an hard drive fast. If I had your drive, I'd make a partition of 300 megs. Of course your preference may differ (and probably differ) than mine. I found that making so many partitions is not flexible. Kevin, I know what you are talking about. I had the same problem with WIX-CIX. The serial port interrupt was conflicting with my network card, and was losing network connections. One thing I like about the Falcon is its real multitasking, not like the archaic Windows single-tasking. Tintin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 106 Thu Jan 13, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 23:43 EST Tintin, Digital recording at the Falcon's 50kHz rate, in stereo, in 16-bit, will take about 12M per minute. At 25kHz it's about six megs. -dmj ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 107 Fri Jan 14, 1994 ATARI.BENLUX [W. Kilwinger] at 03:44 EST STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr]: > >Well, I figured out that Atari's FANTASTIC hard drive utilities grin> only allow 4 partitions per physical drive, so I guess THAT'S why I'm >missing partitions. Since AHDI 3.0 (1989) we support upto 14 partitions. This can be on 1 hard drive if you wish but 14 is the maximum the system can handle as a total of all hard drives you have. But I understand the mistake you make. The dialog which allows you the configure the partitions shows only 4 partitions AND A SLIDER at the left side. So you use the slider to move to 5, 6 etc. I'm using to Maxtor 340 Mb SCSI drives myself with 5 partitions each. Regards, Wilfred P.S. Please don't admit you made a mistake. People that scream that loud don't admit mistakes . ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 108 Fri Jan 14, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 06:20 EST C.LABELLE - Last I calculated, it was only 5.75MB/min/channel (assuming a 50kHz sample rate). Since I have the internal 81MB drive, I'm considering repartitioning the external as one 440MB partition (should yield up to 9.5 minutes of 8-track recording) and just using the IDE for my 'normal' stuff. I originally had the direct-to-disk partition at just over 300MB. I'll probably extend that to AT LEAST 350MB now -- I'll have to evaluate my storage needs (maybe I'll even use DATALITE or somesuch for the IDE). ATARI.BENELUX - I know AHDI supports more than 4 partitions, but that's only if the drive was partitioned with HDX to begin with. I had a drive w/ 8 partitions that was done using ICD's software, so AHDI didn't recognise all of them. I could've repartitioned that drive with HDX, but then I would've lost all the data on it! Luckily, I now have ICD's SCSI Pro Utilities (thanks, Tom!), so everything's just peachy now...well, for the time being anyway! ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 110 Fri Jan 14, 1994 C.LABELLE [Tintin] at 20:35 EST DMJ, DrHfuhruhurr, Thanks for correcting. I'll use your figures for my future calculations. Tintin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 111 Fri Jan 14, 1994 B.SUSLOVIC [Brad] at 20:56 EST DrHfuhruhurr, I'm back to using AHDI 6.05c from ICDs' pro software, Cubase Audio demands it. How does your SCSI drive clock out on your Falcon with ratehd.prg vs. manufactures specs? _brad s_ ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 112 Fri Jan 14, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 23:18 EST Dr. Hfuhruhurr (it's not THAT hard to type), 49170 samples per second (Falcon 50kHz) 2 bytes per sample (16-bit) x 60 seconds per minute -------- 5900400 bytes per minute, per channel. (This is 5.63M.) x 2 channels (gotta have stereo!) -------- 11800800 bytes per minute, 50kHz, 16-bit, stereo. (11.25M.) 440M partition = 9.77 minutes 8-track recording. (Dang, the Phantom Typist just got me. I *hate* when that happens.) -dmj ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 113 Sat Jan 15, 1994 C.GENTRY3 at 01:30 EST VIRTUAL MEMORY? ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 114 Sat Jan 15, 1994 C.GENTRY3 at 01:35 EST Sorry about that last message, this is my first time leaving a message. Anyway, my question was regarding an artical I reading in ST Format (the December issue) on the Falcon. They were talking about something called virtual memory, "which enables the hard drive to be used for memory storage. Does anyone know what this is or how it works? Viva la Falcon! ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 115 Sat Jan 15, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 01:42 EST Wilfred, I'll bet few of us knew that the slider was there. You are a font of helpful info. Al ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 116 Sat Jan 15, 1994 K.RICHARD2 [Bondservant] at 02:03 EST HELLO all you brave souls ,who know what the inside of your falcon looks like.I have been starting to play with sound and found that just recently I only have right input working on audio so since I am going to cut out bass boost any ways and try tyo change the type of connectors and my falcon is nearly 8 months old .I have opened it up guess I didn't do too bad as I am writing on my falcon at this moment. any ways has anyone work up a diagram to replace the 1/8" stereo input with either a 1/4"stereo input or RCA plugs(Wouldn't they hold better in the long run?)I don't mind hanging out a wire to do this I also would like to bypass the bass boost and anything else adding noise to the signalany help would be appreciated any techies in or near Houston I would be willing to pay a reasonable sum to have it done if it was one day and with in driving distance other wise I'll ship it to Sheldon @ Computer Studio as I know I can Trust his (CRAIGS) work ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 117 Sat Jan 15, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 02:33 EST DMJ, Their HD mileage will be a *little* better than the 50KHz calculations. Cubase Audio only does 44.1KHz with its external crystal which plugs into the DSP port. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 118 Sat Jan 15, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 04:02 EST C.Gentry, There are virtual memory programs that allow you to set asside a part of your hard drive to be used as RAM. This is very hany if you are rendering complex images with large objects with shading. In know of one called Outside. Here is some info for you. OUTSIDE is useful to anyone who requires more memory for his animations, pictures, or programming (eg.gnu C++) or whatever reason he may have to require more memory. It is very wuick and the Market Leader in Germany for VMM Products. OUTSIDE 3.0 will run ONLY on 68030 (so on a TT and a Falcon). Recommended Retail is 79 U$D. With English Doc's. It comes with a complete Harddriver Manager as well. Lexicor Software Corp. 1726 Francisco Street Berkeley, CA 94703 voice: (510) 848-7621 fax: (510) 848-7613 Lexicor can also be contacted in the GENIE Graphics RT page 1415 Cat 22. The Outside topic is 18. Hope that is of help to you. John B. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 119 Sat Jan 15, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 06:40 EST B.SUSLOVIC - Well, that's too bad for C.A.F. (and a MAJOR fault/bug!!!). There's NOTHING that will get me to use Atari's cruddy utilities. I don't know what the mfg specs on the drive mechanism are, but I tried RATEHD.PRG and got around 750K/sec. w/ 18ms access time in 256-color/80-column/interlace mode (around 650K/sec. for the IDE), so it looks like 8 tracks is out! That is, unless I can get an external clock to do CD quality, in which case 750K/sec. would be CLOSE (8 tracks of 16-bit, 44.125kHz digital audio would be 690K/sec.). DMJ - Thanks, but I'm not the one who needs a lesson on figuring all that out. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 120 Sat Jan 15, 1994 B.KANTOR [Bruce] at 12:40 EST Help! A few months ago I used NVRAM to set boot res to VGA-80 column mode. Yesterday I was playing with the ScreenBlaster demo and test compatability and my boot res changed back to the default (TV-40 column I think), but NVRAM says it's still VGA-80. Also, I can't get NVRAM to change it to anything else. Everything else still seems to work ok though. Anyone have any ideas? Could the NVRAM chip be blown? Can I buy a new one? If so, where is it located and whats the price? Also, Atari should provide a setup utility to configure this stuff (like other hardware vendors do for their systems). Regards, Bruce ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 121 Sat Jan 15, 1994 B.SEMAAN [BOSEM] at 19:38 EST Man with Two Brains, You should using the 16 color modes, it will make a significant difference in overall speed, and for some strange reason the # of colors you use affects the disk drive performance as well. If RATEHD can be trusted, I get between 10-20% difference in data rate between 2 color and 256 color VGA modes. ST High is even faster. If I did not care about having color I would use ST High all the time. Bob ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 122 Sat Jan 15, 1994 B.SUSLOVIC [Brad] at 21:25 EST Dr. Those arent bad results, considering you were in 256 color mode. My Maxtor 7213s gets 913kbs 39ms access in st high, and does 8 tracks of audio no problem, as long as i keep it defragged. Wilfred, Atari. Benlux says that tos 4.04 is a little slow handling small files from scsis, so that might be why ratehd.prg gives low results. Maxtor says my drive should do 2800kbs with average access of 15ms. _brad s_ ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 123 Sat Jan 15, 1994 J.KRACHT [James Kracht] at 21:55 EST Bruce: There is a NVRAM config program, called, simply CONFIG.PRG. It is a nice little program that allows you to "legally" (i.e., with Atari's permission) set the Falcon's language and keyboard config. It also sets all other NVRAM values to "default." So, if you have that program, try it. If your settings are still mixed up, you might try... er, I don't know actually. The program is in the library here. I believe the guy from Atari-Benelux (SP?) uploaded it. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 124 Sun Jan 16, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 05:17 EST The LXT-7213S Maxtor drive gives me over 1000K/sec on a MSTE. With D2D recording, I believe an SCSI 2 type drive was suggested as what you will need to have the speed required. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 125 Sun Jan 16, 1994 V.VALENTI at 15:06 EST Does anyone know of a raytrace program that uses the DSP for its calc, or if one is in the making. Vince ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 126 Sun Jan 16, 1994 B.SUSLOVIC [Brad] at 18:35 EST r.watson15 the only thing "scsi 2" with reguards to the Falcon is its physical interface, no support for "fast or wide" or even the updated command set, which is driver supported. _brad s_ ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 127 Sun Jan 16, 1994 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 20:51 EST Vince, The DSP chip is not really suited for Raytracing Calculations. As I understand it the SAP chip is suited for integer math not floating point math. Floating point math is used for Raytracing. A mathcoprocessor will get you much more mileage than a DSP chip could. Check out the INShape topic for more info. InShape is a powerful Raytracer for the TT and Falcon. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 128 Mon Jan 17, 1994 G.E.M. [Gary] at 00:46 EST A less expensive and just as powerful alternative to INShape is POV-Ray 2.1, it's available in the library, and best of all it's FREE! ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 129 Mon Jan 17, 1994 C.GENTRY3 at 01:36 EST I'm to add some memory to my 4meg Falcon. I can't aford to go all the way to 16 yet, so what would be the best option, and who are some people to contact? ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 130 Mon Jan 17, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 06:11 EST C.GENTRY3 - The only thing you CAN go to from 4MB on the Falcon030 is 16MB (14MB), unfortunately. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 131 Mon Jan 17, 1994 ATARI.BENLUX [W. Kilwinger] at 07:03 EST Bruce: NVRAM has a status called Inoperational. There are 3 calls available to work with NVRAM: read, write and initialise. When NVRAM is inoperational read and write will not work. Some older NVRAM utilities don't check the status and use write without initialise and therefor are not able to change NVRAM once it is inoperational. >Also, Atari should provide a setup utility to configure this >stuff (like other hardware vendors do for their systems). Atari does, it's called CONFIG.APP and in fact I think I've uploaded it here. It's file 29630 CONFIG.ZIP. It doesn't change boot resolution but at least it makes your inoperational NVRAM operational so that you can use your other utility to change the bootres. Regards, Wilfred ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 132 Mon Jan 17, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 20:00 EST Spud Boy, The 56001 DSP (the one in the Falcon) does more than integer math. It can do "fixed-point" math... that is, it does fractions, but to a limited precision. But as you say, it is not ideally suited to raytracing applications--that's not what it was designed for. -dmj ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 133 Mon Jan 17, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 22:23 EST If the Macs (with 68030) can use memory configurations between 4mb and 16mb, why can't the Falcon? ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 134 Mon Jan 17, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 23:45 EST > > If the Macs (with 68030) can use memory configurations between 4mb > and 16mb, why can't the Falcon? Because they asked my Mom... and she said No! Wayne - Monday, January 17, 1994 - 08:32 p.m. PST ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 135 Tue Jan 18, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 00:53 EST Gary, I think Inshape is a little more advanced then POV-Ray as it offers a full GEM based enviroment with object, scene, hierarchy and Key Frame editors. I haven't checked out POV-Ray 2.1 though so I could be incorrect. The price sounds right! ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 136 Tue Jan 18, 1994 ATARI.BENLUX [W. Kilwinger] at 02:29 EST R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] > > If the Macs (with 68030) can use memory configurations between 4mb > and 16mb, why can't the Falcon? > That is a matter of design and has nothing to do with the 68030. (A 68030 can do a couple of Gigabytes if needed). Atari supports only 2 memory banks (since we introduced the ST in 1985) and you can choose for 32 256Kbit, 1Mbit, 4Mbit memory chips which results in 1 Mbyte, 4 Mbyte and 16Mbyte machines. If 512Kbit chips exsist (I once heard they do but are not common) you can probable have a 8Mbyte machine. If you do some tricks with bank switching you might have 8Mbyte as well but it will demand extra logic and 64 chips insteat of 32. (and probable cause heatproblems and space problems) Regards, Wilfred ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 137 Tue Jan 18, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 06:22 EST By the way, what resolution SHOULD the Falcon030 be booting in on a TV/SC1224? R.WATSON15 - Because the Macs have a different (better!) RAM set-up. Unlike the ST, which has 2 banks of 16-bit RAM, the Falcon030 has one bank of 32-bit RAM (actually, it uses 2 banks of 16-bit RAM as 1 bank of 32-bit RAM). Due to the configurations that DRAM is mainly available in, 1MB (8 256kbit x 4 or 32 256k x 1 chips), 4MB (8 1Mbit x 4 or 32 1Mbit x 1 chips), and 16MB (8 4Mbit x 4 or 32 4Mbit x 1 chips) are the only easy configurations to come up with for one bank of 32-bit RAM. The 68030 Macs use more than one bank of 32-bit RAM, thus allowing more configurations (e.g. 2 4MB banks = 8MB total). If Atari just had the foresight, they could've fixed this horrible limitation with the Falcon030 pretty easily (just like they could've fixed the 16-bit CPU bus!). There ARE 512kbit DRAMs (which would allow an 8MB configuration), but they are rare, and even if you DID find them, it may not work since Atari made the Falcon030 to ONLY recognise 1/4/16MB configurations. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 138 Tue Jan 18, 1994 B.SEMAAN [BOSEM] at 06:46 EST Say, does anyone know if it is safe to plug or unplug a printer into a powered up falcon? I remember hearing this was definitely not safe to try on the ST/e series. Bob ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 139 Tue Jan 18, 1994 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 21:30 EST DMJ, Thanks for clearing that up. I am not a hardware Wiz Kid, but I did know that an FPU is better than a DSP for Raytracing. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 140 Tue Jan 18, 1994 V.VALENTI at 22:30 EST Does anybody know how many clocks it takes the falcon to access the bus. I have the 68030 book, but all the clocks for the commands are for a machine with a 32bit bus. Vince ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 141 Tue Jan 18, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 23:27 EST Spud Boy, No problem. I'm just a stickler for accuracy... which only makes it worse when _I_ screw up (which has happened on occasion). -dmj ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 142 Wed Jan 19, 1994 BBRADLEY [HOT DOG] at 00:33 EST I have seen some posts on Falcon serial port problems and I think I have tried them all. Looking for more help if someone can. Used FPATCH2 and Aladin won't work at all, STraight Fax can't find the modem. Used BMAPFIX2 and Aladin still won't work, STraight Fax call the other FAX machine but can't find a baud rate that can be talked at. Used both FPATCH2 AND BMAPFIX2 together and nothing works. Does it matter what order these load in the AUTO folder? I'm using a TwinCom 2400 data/9600 S-R FAX. Any help is appreciated! ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 143 Wed Jan 19, 1994 C.GENTRY3 at 03:35 EST I've downloaded some Mac gif files that have more than the eight character file name that Atari uses and when I try to acsess them on my drive it says "Cannot find...etc." They can't be renamed or deleted from the drive. Is there any way to fix this, does any of this make any since???? ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 144 Wed Jan 19, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 05:15 EST C.GENTRY3 - Huh? Anytime you download a file, the filename will be shortened if over 11 characters. If you download GreatMacintoshPic.GIF, you SHOULD end up with either GREATMAC.GIF or GREATMAC.INT. Also, if it's a Mac file, then it has a MacBinary header on it, which MOST programs hate (since it's no longer strictly a GIF format file, programs have to be written to recognise and ignore any headers on the file). If THAT'S the problem you're having, download MACVERT.PRG which will strip off MicBinary headers. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 145 Wed Jan 19, 1994 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 09:53 EST Hot Dog, Aladdin is hardwired to use the old modem port from the ST, which isn't on the Falcon. FPATCH and BMAPFIX won't fix that; you need a shareware program called LOADALAD to get Aladdin to use the Falcon's modem port. I'm not sure what the problem is with Straight Fax ... what version are you using? Straight Fax is well supported in it's own topic here on the BB. I'm sure Charles will help you, but I don't know if he's reading this topic. BTW, a press release for LOADALAD can be found in our library here but the support for the program is being held in the ST Aladdin BB on page 1000. Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 146 Wed Jan 19, 1994 M.TROUPE [Helium] at 19:36 EST C.Gentry3, What program are you using to download them? The Z-modem from Starfall (using all the other modes too :-) ) Will automatically rename the file to a standard name when the option is set. Of course I have never seen but a few files it told me I couldn't delete. So I did the next bext thing, I moved everything off but those files and zeroed the partition. Works every time. You need to get the download options configured to not allow those files to download like that though. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 147 Wed Jan 19, 1994 J.YEGERLEHNE at 19:47 EST If you're talking about trading a single FP instruction like a multiply on an FPU with a multiply on the DSP, then yes, I suspect the call to the OS to get the stuff in and out of the DSP would swamp any speed advantage over the FPU. However, if you are trading something like a matrix multiplication subroutine for one on the DSP, then the DSP will be much faster than the 68030+FPU. The DSP's harvard architecture lets it do a multiply, accumulate and the loading of the next two elements to be MACed all at the same time and in a couple of bus cycles. Since this is what's going on at the deepest nested calculation in a matrix multiplication, the DSP is like a supercomputer. For some reason, I was under the impression that matrix or matrix and vector multiplication were the most CPU intensive things about 3D image rotation, etc. and if that's true, then InShape might have a lot to benefit from exploiting the DSP. I was thinking that it might even make an application like InShape perform much better than its counterparts running on the high speed DOS/Windows machines. Does anyone know what kinds of calculations make Raytracing so CPU-intensive? Jim Y. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 148 Wed Jan 19, 1994 J.KRACHT [James Kracht] at 23:09 EST HOT DOG: It sounds like your modem, to me. Never heard of TwinCom. I've been using a US Robotics modem, with FPATCH and BMAPFIX2 and have never had a problem. C.GENTRY3: You can take of that problem by using (I think) CleanUp (from ICD) or Diamond Edge. A friend of mine had the same problem, and using Diamong Edge, the program told him had had "illegal file names" or something, which he was given the option to rename. I think Hard Disk Sentry (older program) will do the trick too. I had a bad filename once. A zero-length file, that I couldn't delete, and which TOS would display, but not "see." CleanUp fixed it. No need to (as Helium suggested) "move everything off the partition and zero it" (paraphrasing), which is probably the most drastic solution. If you have ICD Pro utilities, you should have CleanUp. ANd if you don't have ICD Pro utilities, you should. :-) ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 149 Wed Jan 19, 1994 D.PHILLIPS24 [Darcy] at 23:44 EST Bondservant, If you have _any_ luck with audio mods to your Falcon, especially ones that reduce noise and/or improve quality(i.e. headroom), please do let us know, kay? ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 150 Wed Jan 19, 1994 BBRADLEY [HOT DOG] at 23:46 EST Charlie and James, I tried the LOADALAD demo and the modem connected. Now I working on STraight FAX... latest version 2.1. Guess I'll jaunt over to that topic for a bit and see what gives. Thanx! ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 151 Thu Jan 20, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 01:44 EST C.GENTRY3, Sounds like your drive might be corrupted or something? First show info on the files and see what size they are and if it's set to READ only. Then show info on your parttion and see if it looks realistic. Sometimes when the directory gets messed up you'll get a zillion bytes free or something impossible. Back up what you can then Zero the partition or check it with a program like Diamond Edge. If you have a hard drive you need to buy this anyway.:-) MAC GIF files should work fine with no problems. I download them all the time, the name usually gets cut down to 8 characters. Some of the MAC files have a MAC header on them though. That header is 128Bytes long. Strip it off and the files will work fine. You can check for this by using SHOW on your desktop to see if starts with GIF87a. If not it has the header on it or it's damaged. If you have a program that will let you edit files you can delete everything (128 Bytes) before the GIF87a. A Word Processor won't work you need something like Byte Mechanic or Edhack maybe even Flash II. There is also a program in the Atari RT library that will do it for you. It's called... umm... can't remember?? Search for MAC or GIF it should show up. Might be called MACGIF? ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 152 Thu Jan 20, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 04:33 EST Well, after trying out MultiTOS, I'm impressed with what it does, but not too keen on how dreadfully slow it does them. Hopefully, they can optimise it A LOT more. Also, nobody answered my question about what the default F030 bootup resolution should be (on an SC1224). I THOUGHT it was supposed to be in ST Low (16-color/40-column/non-interlaced) or maybe ST Medium (4-color/80- column/non-interlaced)??? ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 153 Thu Jan 20, 1994 K.OLSON10 [KenO.] at 07:25 EST HOT DOG - Are you using Load Aladdin - it makes the serial port on Falcon work with Aladdin. KenO. :) ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 154 Thu Jan 20, 1994 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 13:50 EST Hot Dog, glad to hear Aladdin at least is working for you now. C.Gentry, can you not see the files at all to rename or deleate them? If you can see them, click on them and then 'Show Information' from the main desktop menu. In that dialog box, at the bottom, should be two buttons indicating if the file is 'Read/Write' or 'Read Only'. If it's read only that's why you can't deleate it. Simply click on 'Read/Write' and it should be a normal file again. There are many other programs that will check this status for you as well. Maxifile from the Codeheads comes to mind. Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 155 Thu Jan 20, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 19:02 EST Jim Y, While it's true that the DSP can multiply, add, round, and move in the next two data elements, all in one instruction, that's not the problem. Yes, the DSP can do matrix multiplication faster than an FPU... but it can't do it as accurately. The 56001 DSP in the Falcon has 48-bit precision (56-bit if you include the overflow bits), and it is FIXED-point. That means the decimal point DOESN'T MOVE (binary point, if you want to get technical). The 68882 FPU has 80-bit FLOATING-point precision, so not only is it more accurate, but it can handle smaller and larger numbers better than fixed-point math. It is this difference that makes an FPU better suited to ray-tracing than the DSP, not just the speed. From what I've seen of raytracing, matrix multiplication is the most time- consuming thing. Floating-point matrix multiplication. -dmj ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 156 Thu Jan 20, 1994 K.GERDES [TraceTech] at 19:06 EST BBRADLEY, The order of FPATCH2 and BMAPFIX2 does not matter. Some people say otherwise, but trust me, it doesn't. To use Aladdin on the Falcon, you need to get LoadAladdin. As Charlie mentioned, there are files you can download related to LoadAlad. ST RT file library: 31020 (Press Release) ST Aladdin RT file library: 325 (same PR) and 330 (Demo) If you have any questions, please drop by the LoadAlad support topic in the ST Aladdin RT- CAT2 TOP6. - Keith [TraceTech] ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 157 Thu Jan 20, 1994 J.KRACHT [James Kracht] at 20:15 EST Steve-J: I'm not sure what you're asking... you can boot in ANY res on the SC1224. The little monitor adapter is what determines what resolutions you can use. That little grey thingy is what protects your SC1224 from "dangerous" resolutions... I personally like 640x400x256 on the SC1435. The flicker isn't that bad at all. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 158 Thu Jan 20, 1994 B.SUSLOVIC [Brad] at 21:25 EST darcy, I have the bass boost removed and the input inpedance fixed for line level according to Steinbergs recomendations, and this machine works fine and sounds great. The noise floor is a bit high for the 2 channels, but considering that your mixing 8 digital to 2 analog, its pretty darn good. _brad s_ ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 159 Fri Jan 21, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 06:34 EST J.KRACHT - What I meant was what resolution should be in the NVRAM (i.e. what resolution should the Atari logo be IMMEDIATELY upon turning on the Falcon030) as the default resolution? B.SUSLOVIC - But can you post what Steinberg's recommended fixes are? ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 160 Fri Jan 21, 1994 D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] at 06:35 EST Brad: Can you explain the modifications recommended to get rid of the bass boost and the mic level inputs? I'm tired of having a string of little adapters and whatnot hanging off the F030. All I need now are some RCA jacks! _______________________ \hunderbird ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 161 Fri Jan 21, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 08:20 EST T-Bird, If you want, I could send you the mod info in email. It is text only. Not very detailed, but enough to do the job. Also, if you are interested, I could GEmail you a copy of a nifty little file that appeared on my 'virtual doorstep' the other day. This file tells ya where the DSP host port regs are in the F030 mem map among other things. I'm pretty sure that it is accurate because of who sent it. Sometimes, b!tching does pay off. --Kevin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 162 Fri Jan 21, 1994 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 19:37 EST > Say, does anyone know if it is safe to plug or unplug a printer into a >powered up falcon? I remember hearing this was definitely not safe to try on >the ST/e series. > > Bob > I use a switch box for 2 different printers on my STE and switch between the 2 while the system is powered up all the time. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 163 Fri Jan 21, 1994 J.YEGERLEHNE at 20:01 EST DMJ- Yep, I probably should have mentioned the fixed vs, floating point issue. I've done a lot of programming on a DSP application on the Falcon, and am aware of the perils of fixed point arithmetic. However, in many cases the 24 bits (with 56 bit intermediate results) is plenty of resolution; prior to doing the multiplication, one simply scales whatever floating point numbers one is working with to the DSP's internal -1.0000 to 099999999 range, and then back again when done. Are you certain that this would not work in the case of raytracing? Jim Y. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 164 Fri Jan 21, 1994 B.AEIN [B Man] at 22:20 EST Brad, I notice a lot of noise when using effects in WinRec, do them mods clean up the input? Do you have any music finished on CBA? Does the F030 sound like a pro machine or semi-pro? Bman ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 165 Sat Jan 22, 1994 G.CHIU2 [Graham] at 01:30 EST I recently asked about whether the Falcon has an autoswitching power supply. The following answers my question: Atari Talk / Atari Explorer, #439 of 458 >Rec'd Date: 21 Jan 94 24:53:00 From: Bob Brodie of 51:1/10 To: Steven Wells Subj: Falcon/Jaguar PSU In message 319/2/6323, Steven Wells writes: > Does the Falcon and/or Jaguar have a universal Power-Supply/Video > Output!? (e.g. it can handle 110V/240V and 50/60Hz, as well as > PAL/NTSC output). The Falcon has a universal power supply. The Video output is either PAL or NTSC, depending on what country it is destined for. Same with the Jaguar. The Jaguar uses a different A/C adapter pending the country it's headed for. --- FiFo V2.1o [JetMail 0.99beta] * Origin: 51:1/10 @ Atarinet.ftn Atari Base, Sunnyvale - CA. (51:1/10) ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 166 Sat Jan 22, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:05 EST Flakes, I have one printer switched among three computers, and there's no problem, whether any of the computers is on or off when the printer switch is turned to change the routing. Al ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 167 Sat Jan 22, 1994 S.WINICK at 08:18 EST Graham, The Falcon specs may indicate the power supply to be an auto- switching universal type, but don't believe it. DO NOT plug your US Falcon into 240V. You WILL blow up the power supply and most likely fry the mother board as well. I speak from experience! Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 168 Sat Jan 22, 1994 D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] at 10:23 EST Sheldon: A "switching" power supply is a specific type of efficient power supply design that doesn't generate a lot of heat, and is very small. If the Atari specs call the Falcon030 a "switching" supply, then it's not saying anything about whether it can be used with 110 and 220 both. I think the term "auto- switching" is a misinterpretation of the "switching" name. An "offline switching" supply refers to a specific style of switching supply which is typically associated with 110/220 operation (but doesn't _have_ to be, either). If the label on the bottom of your Falcon030 says "110/220" or something like that, then feel free to plug it in to either (and if it blows up, Atari would be in big trouble, for mislabelling it). Mine says "117VAC" on the bottom, and that's all I'm sure it can handle. Hope this clears things up. _____________________ \hunderbird ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 169 Sat Jan 22, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 13:08 EST Kevin, Think you could make a spare copy of that file? It'd be enormously useful... and I'll owe you one. -dmj ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 170 Sat Jan 22, 1994 B.KANTOR [Bruce] at 13:40 EST Thanks, CONFIG.APP did the trick. Any chance of getting CONFIG.APP modified so it can work with all NVRAM settings? Stece-J, I think all Falcons boot in the same NVRAM config regardless of monitor. Atari chose a resolution that would work with all monitor types; 320X240X2 I think. Regards, Bruce ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 171 Sat Jan 22, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 14:19 EST Jim Y., No, I'm not certain that shifting the numbers into DSP range would not work for raytracing, and that is essentially how floating-point works, anyway. I'm also not certain if 24 bits is enough, having never written a complete raytracer. (I dabbled in it a few years back.) Perhaps you'd like to whip out a fast matrix multiplier DSP routine, and send it to raytracer authors, as a freebie? ~dmj ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 172 Sat Jan 22, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 17:30 EST DMJ, What file? YOu mean the DSP H.I. register map? Sure. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 173 Sat Jan 22, 1994 D.ALFONSO1 [D.ALFONSO] at 19:08 EST Kevin, If it's not too much trouble, I'd like a copy of that bass-boost removal mod, too. David PS Took a hammer to my Screenblaster plug ... Logic looks great on the BIG screen ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 174 Sat Jan 22, 1994 J.YEGERLEHNE at 20:55 EST dmj. - Actually, 56K source code that does matrix multiplication is free on Motorola's Dr. Bub BBS. The number is in the 56K User's Manual. Figuring out how to efficiently scale and convert the floating to fixed point and back can be tricky though. Jim Y. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 175 Sat Jan 22, 1994 J.KRACHT [James Kracht] at 21:27 EST Steve-J I have my NVRAM set to 640x480x256, and on the SC1435, this just turns into 640x400x256. No fiddling. It just does it, so don't worry. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 176 Sun Jan 23, 1994 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 00:33 EST J.YEGERLEHNE, What type of application are you programming? RE: 56K DSP -- Albert ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 177 Sun Jan 23, 1994 K.RICHARD2 [Bondservant] at 03:21 EST Darcy If I do Ya'll be the first to know.looks like it may be a while no one seems to be talking about the bad set up. rick ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 178 Sun Jan 23, 1994 G.CHIU2 [Graham] at 03:59 EST Sheldon/Thunderbird But if Bob Brodie says >The Falcon has a universal power supply. The Video output is either PAL or surely that means it can be used with 110/230V?? And Sheldon, do you want to tell us how you fried your Falcon? ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 179 Sun Jan 23, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 04:16 EST David, Sometimes you've just gotta get violent. :) :) Whoever wanted the bass boost hack info, GEmail me. I forgot your address... --Kevin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 180 Sun Jan 23, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 07:01 EST Well... the statement about PAL output has nothing to do with the line voltages. --Kevin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 181 Sun Jan 23, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 07:16 EST G.CHIU2 - Bob Brodie was wrong. Only the DEVELOPER MODEL Falcon030s had universal power supplies. He may have gotten that bit of info mixed up. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 182 Sun Jan 23, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 07:32 EST By the way, exactly what does the F030 need to do 44.125kHz sampling? Does it just need a 44.125kHz clock coming in through the one DSP port pin? Also, to anyone who knows, is the 44.125kHz clock (in other devices) coming from a 44.125kHz crystal or a higher frequency crystal with the rate cut by x times? Thanks! ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 183 Sun Jan 23, 1994 R.LUNSFORD2 at 19:12 EST Steve, From the docs I 've seen, all you need is an external clock, and tell the OS through softweare to recognize it. Russ ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 184 Sun Jan 23, 1994 K.RICHARD2 [Bondservant] at 20:00 EST Kevin Me too!!! Me too!!! rick ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 185 Sun Jan 23, 1994 J.YEGERLEHNE at 21:26 EST Albert- I'm working on a neural network simulator that uses the DSP for backpropagation training. There are dedicated DSP boards available for Klones that cost ~$1500; with the falcon you get the DSP accelerated training for free. Its about 4 months from beta testing. Jim Y. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 186 Sun Jan 23, 1994 K.RICHARD2 [Bondservant] at 22:24 EST Well to anyone I take it from the lack of responce that no one has come up with a solution to the faulty input problems on early falcons. Guess I may have to send back to Atari and get them to fix and return(Hope it doesn't take forever) But first I'll wait till I get a note pad or notebook. I am heading to the quake zone in a couple days I will be bringing my falcon and modem so I will be online from time to time if I find a place to stay with phone jacks.If antone out there in L.A. has some ideas on what to do I'll bring the bird by and if it's not to expensive we'll get it fixed.Guess I'll get warp-9 upgraded if I can stop by the Codeheads(eh Tomas?John?) I'll also be helping Dana & Jeff sort through the wreckage at Dana's house according to Jeff it was wrecked and Dana is having to stay at familys.So keep them in your prayers they were at NAMM this week so I can't imagine the stress they must be feeling. any suggestions on the best Atari dealers in LA?. Rick ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 187 Sun Jan 23, 1994 BBRADLEY [HOT DOG] at 23:41 EST A while back someone mentioned a problem with the Falcon hard drive relating to a grounding spring. Could you describe the location and shape of this spring a bit better? Is it the metal fingers that stick up off the drive and touch the shielding of the computer??? and which side of the drive should it be on? Thanx in advance. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 188 Mon Jan 24, 1994 D.ALFONSO1 [D.ALFONSO] at 02:57 EST Kevin, Thanx for that file....I was beginning to think the mod was top-secret! David ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 189 Mon Jan 24, 1994 S.WINICK at 03:58 EST Brad, >> A while back someone mentioned a problem with the Falcon hard >> drive relating to a grounding spring. Could you describe the >> location and shape of this spring a bit better? Is it the >> metal fingers that stick up off the drive and touch the >> shielding of the computer??? and which side of the drive >> should it be on? It should be mounted on the side of the hard drive furthest away from the power supply. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 190 Mon Jan 24, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:43 EST I wish Atari would advertise the Falcon, and let the world know they have DSP included, instead of waiting for the other computers to catch up. Of course, they may never include it. It may continue to be another expensive add-on board. Ken Van ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 191 Mon Jan 24, 1994 ATARI.BENLUX [W. Kilwinger] at 13:03 EST G.CHIU2 [Graham]: > >I recently asked about whether the Falcon has an autoswitching power supply. >The following answers my question: > >Atari Talk / Atari Explorer, #439 of 458 >Rec'd Date: 21 Jan 94 24:53:00 >From: Bob Brodie of 51:1/10 To: Steven Wells Subj: Falcon/Jaguar PSU > > In message 319/2/6323, Steven Wells writes: > > Does the Falcon and/or Jaguar have a universal Power-Supply/Video > > Output!? (e.g. it can handle 110V/240V and 50/60Hz, as well as > > PAL/NTSC output). > >The Falcon has a universal power supply. The Video output is either PAL or >NTSC, depending on what country it is destined for. Same with the Jaguar. >The Jaguar uses a different A/C adapter pending the country it's headed for. > No, this in NOT true. The Falcon has separate power pupplies for 110V and for 220V. For the 220V power supply we use here in europe I'm 100% sure that it WON'T work on 110V and if I look at the Bill of Material I see a different power supplies listed for 110V and 220V so I guess that the 110V unit isn't auto-switching either. P.S. Sorry Bob Brodie, but it is my job to know these hardware details. B.KANTOR [Bruce]: > >Thanks, CONFIG.APP did the trick. Any chance of getting CONFIG.APP modified >so it can work with all NVRAM settings? No, Atari will not do that. Actually I wrote it and I was not allowed to implement the other functions. I guess Atari will avoid problems that people can have when they change that. Regards, Wilfred ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 192 Mon Jan 24, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 14:02 EST Wilfred, is there any chance that Atari will add a flag in the NVRAM to turn off the builtin speaker upon turning the machine on? --Kevin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 193 Mon Jan 24, 1994 ICDINC [Tom] at 15:50 EST Kevin, That was discussed about 1 year ago in the original NVRAM debate. Guess who won by default? Wilfred, Some of the early Falcons had universal switchers. I have one but there are other problems with it. (Developer unit.) - TOM - ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 194 Mon Jan 24, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 19:44 EST Tom, That still doesn't mean it isn't a dumb idea to leave it _out_ of the NVRAM config. Ooooh! I luuuv the sound of that internal speaker distortion... :) --Kevin ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 195 Tue Jan 25, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 04:53 EST PG.MUSIC - Well, there's the GENERAL.CPX module, plus the SPEAKOFF.PRG program. So far, I haven't run across anything that turns it back on. ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 196 Tue Jan 25, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 08:08 EST But it should be in NVRAM. That way, I won't have to risk hearing an auto program or anything come out of that nasty little "Celestion Wannabe". --Kevin PS. I know about the CPX, and SPEAKOFF.PRG. That's how I do it now. :) ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 197 Tue Jan 25, 1994 HEAD.TRIP [Wayne] at 22:33 EST Bondservant, while in Los Angeles, go to The Computer Network in Glendale. (818) 500-3900 Talk to Tony or Mark there. Tony is working on a hardware fix for the Falcon problem you have. They are open Tuesday - Saturday 11-7. Tell them Wayne sent you from GEnie. I'm out there all the time (lately buying Jaguar stuff) and they'll get a laugh out of it I think. There other other Atari sources of Atari in Los Angeles, but those guys (all of 'em) at The Computer Network are great! They always take _very_ good care of me. If you have an 'Atari Emergency' call me @ (213) 530-0395 - my pager, and I'll try to help you out... (Leave message or enter # that you can be reached) Have a good trip! Kevin, Somehow I got my speaker to shut off at boot-up. I think I used a bootsector prg. I'll check it out. Wayne - Monday, January 24, 1994 - 10:15 p.m. PST ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 198 Tue Jan 25, 1994 BBRADLEY [HOT DOG] at 22:34 EST Sheldon, Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! I have noticed that at times some programs would load slowly or that the Falcon would access the floppy drive when looking files on the hard drive. At times I would actually hear the hard drive spin up and wonder what was going on. The problem was especially bad when using Falcon Speed and Windozzz. I thought that it was just that the IDE drive was that much slower than the scuzzy (SCSI) drive on my TT. Now the drive screams right along. It's like having a whole new computer! Hot Dog ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 199 Wed Jan 26, 1994 BBRADLEY [HOT DOG] at 02:24 EST Sheldon, One more question... Now that I have the hard drive grounded properly, what if I decide to recase the computer in a desktop case? Should I run a ground wire from the drive to the case or motherboard or will it not need that since it will be using a PS/2 power supply. Hot Dog ------------ Category 30, Topic 3 Message 200 Wed Jan 26, 1994 S.WINICK at 07:40 EST Brad, >> Now that I have the hard drive grounded properly, what if I >> decide to recase the computer in a desktop case? Should I run >> a ground wire from the drive to the case or motherboard... Most desktop cases are metal and grounded. As long as the case has an internal connection to the ground wire, everything you install should automatically also be grounded (as long as it is directly mounted to the metal mounting rails in the case). If you use a plastic mounting rail kit, then run a separate ground wire. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------