========================================================================= (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 41 Tue Dec 22, 1992 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 20:08 EST Sub: FALCON 030 - Help and Questions Ask here if you need help or have a technical question to ask about the FALCON 030 computer. This topic is designed to inform users about the FALCON and discuss it CURRENT details and characteristics. 200 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 1 Tue Jun 01, 1993 B.REHBOCK [BILL@ATARI] at 00:05 EDT Steffan, the Falcon's video output is as good as many $2000 JVC and Sony video titlers/sketch pads that I've seen. Cogswell College is doing some production work right now with a pair of Falcons at this time; I'll touch base with James Grunke and see if he can give us a report on how they're doing in a professional environment. -Bill ============= Falcon030 Bundled Software Bulletin =============== Falcon030's with Hard Drives are currently shipping with the following software: o MultiTOS o SpeedoGDOS o Landmines o Breakout o Calappt (Personal Time Manager, Telephone Book/Dialer) o ProCalc o Talking Clock They are supposed to have (many didn't because everyone was eager to get machines shipped to dealers quickly) a mail-in card that you mail to Atari to receive: o Atari Works (Personal Integrated Productivity Package) o System Audio Manager (Accompany System Keyclicks and Events with Digitized Sounds.) o Audio Fun Machine (8-band graphic equalizer and special effects processor.) o FalconD2D (Direct-to-Disk recording system with special effects and editing.) IMPORTANT: We know exactly which dealers received machines without the mail-in cards and they are being sent their cards this week. Users that purchased machines and did not receive these cards can contact the dealer in about one week to get their card. All you have to do is fill out the card (make sure you include your dealer's name and machine's serial number); keep the verification half, and mail the other half to Atari. Machines without Hard Drives will not be shipped with SpeedoGDOS, Atari Works, or FalconD2D. They will have everything else (including the hard disk utilities in case you have your own SCSI Hard Disk). The Atari Hard Disk upgrade kits will ship with Atari Works, SpeedoGDOS, FalconD2D, as well as MultiTOS, etc. on the Hard Disk. -Bill Rehbock, Atari Corp. ======================================================================= ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 2 Thu Aug 12, 1993 ATARI.BENLUX [W. Kilwinger] at 02:19 EDT Thunderbird: > > - Maybe someone could write an OS patch which had standardized > - assembly routines that fully support the SCC chip and 68901. Somebody in germany did, it's called XSDD (extended serial device driver). Unfortually he didn't write English documentation. I will tell him that if he realy wants to set a standard he has to document in English. TIM @ TWP: There is more you should know for your SCC article like the addresses of the SCC and the place were are stores its Interrupt Vectors. Here we go: * The SCC in the Falcon030, TT and Mega STE is mapped on: * * SCC MEMORY MAP: * --------------- * SCC Channel A Control $FF8C81 (all are 1 byte long) * SCC Channel A Data $FF8C83 * SCC Channel B Control $FF8C85 * SCC Channel B Data $FF8C87 * * Note that in the TT documentation this is documented as $FF8C80 OB. * OB stands for Odd Byte. The TT manual assumes WORD access. I found * that BYTE access to $FF8C80 and $FF8C81 are mapped to the same SCC * address, so are $82 and $83, $84 and $85, $86 and $87. But don't * count on that !!! * * SCC Channel A & Channel B are used in the following way on different * machines: * * SCC Channel A: TT030 Serial 2 / LAN, * Mega STE Serial 2 / LAN, * Falcon030 LAN * * SCC Channel B: TT030 Modem 2 * Mega STE Modem 2 * Falcon030 Modem * The SCC interrupt vectors start at address 0x180. It seems that there are 16 vectors starting there, but only even numbered ones are used; the SCC port B vectors are first, followed by the SCC port A vectors. The PCLK (23) input into the SCC is rated at 8MHz. The RTXCA (13) and RTXCB (32) input is provided with a 3.672 MHz clock. The TRXCA (15) input comes from the LAN connector and the TRXCB (30) input is rated at 2.4576 MHz. Thunderbird: I'm sorry but you could reach Mike by email once and now you are waiting almost a year for the kit. You couldn't email a reminder in between ?? Regards, Wilfred ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 3 Thu Aug 12, 1993 D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] at 05:54 EDT B.Freeman: You are making too many assumptions in your deductions regarding the viability of TOS to handle the Serial ports properly. > The os can handle up to 19200 baud and zmodem doesn't need > to write to the hardware to work What if I want to use speeds _faster_ than 19,200??? The SCC chip supports speeds almost 10 times that fast. The OS falls flat on it's face in this regard. Some people actually _need_ other speeds, y'know. > xyz.ttp works fine on a Falcon. I suppose you're using a 9,600 baud modem or less? If the handshaking is not functioning, it will not work. Even at 9,600, you're probably getting error frames which are retransmitted and succeed on the retry. > ...a patch like your talking about already, its call (sic) the os. > Atari has to change the os each time they change the hardware in > their computers. No, it's called "FPATCH.PRG" or something like that, and it comes from Atari... while FPATCH doesn't add the required support for things like DCD and higher speeds, it _does_ fix some bugs in the serial comm routines in TOS. I believe it fixed hardware handshaking which screwed up fast ZMODEM transfers (among other things), but I could have heard wrong. > Now a patch for hangup and carrier detect would be nice for people > who think they need'em.(hehe) I am really quite amazed that someone would actually maintain the belief that a homebrew terminal program which kludges it's way around the lack of complete OS routines is evidence that programmers should not have gone to the hardware. Maybe you should try to turn your homemade terminal into the first Falcon030 BBS program. Then you can try to explain to your customers that any user who gets knocked off the line by line noise must call back immediately, because your BBS can't tell that the carrier dropped and the next caller that connects will resume at the point where the previous one left off (like entering private e-mail, or performing remote sysop functions). Of course you'll solve that problem easily too... your BBS will watch the incoming data stream for the words "RING" or "CONNECT" or "NO CARRIER" and use that to determine if a user lost connection. You'll just have to post a log-in message warning the users not to type any messages, or upload any files with those words in them, or they will be returned to the login prompt. I'm almost afraid to ask, but I can't help but wonder if you're an employee of the Microsoft Windows or DOS development teams? _____________________ \hunderbird 'cause a clever programmer can kludge up a workaround for anything... ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 4 Thu Aug 12, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 18:40 EDT The OS patch sounds like a good program for the CodeHeads. I would see the Carrier Detect call as returning which ports it detects CD on using bit patterns. Use a 16bit word. Bit 0 = Port 1 (standard ST port), Bit 2, Modem 2, etc. Tim, don't forget that the MSTE and TT also uses the SCC chip so you should get the clock rate for those computers also. I also hang up the user after a Sysop configurable amount of time but, I also need to know when the user has dropped carrier. There was a progam that did some test on the SCC and reported the speeds (clock). I believe I got it off of GEnie since that is wehre the majority of my files come from. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 5 Thu Aug 12, 1993 P-DIRECT2 [Tim @ TWP] at 20:30 EDT Before I log off and read all these new messages (BTW, I don't use Alladin... never got it), I would like to point out that I made an error in my last message... X.25 is the link-level protocol. HDLC and SDLC are the hardware level. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 6 Thu Aug 12, 1993 P-DIRECT2 [Tim @ TWP] at 20:52 EDT David Kessler (the SCC Z8530 expert) and I plan to write an article detailing the chip and how to use it on the Falcon that we will publish in the first issue of Processor Direct magazine. There will be interesting background information about the power and uses of the chip, as well as 68000 asm code examples that actually perform common operations such as setting baud rate, setting/resetting DTR, checking DCD, and checking IR. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 7 Thu Aug 12, 1993 P-DIRECT2 [Tim @ TWP] at 20:53 EDT Oh, and BTW, W. Kilwinger, thanks for that information on the SCC. That's exactly what Dave and I needed. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 8 Thu Aug 12, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 21:58 EDT Tims, You are right! The 'discussions' here prompted me to pull out my Zilog Datacom ICs book on the Z85C30 - It certainly is a 'do-all' chip. (Take a look at the Z85C80 - a Z85C30 + a Z53C80 SCSI controller in 1 chip). One of the things that appealed to me was the HDLC capability - Seems like I could make my MSTe + Modem act like a TNC (terminal node controller) for Amateur Radio Packet radio - if I knew what I was doing! More digging to do. Started digging into my Trusty MSTe. I couldn't understand why the DSR and CTS was missing from Modem 2 port. Ya know what? I don't think they really are missing. Could it be that Atari disabled them in the OS? Still more digging to do. One of the really bothersome things about the massive shrinking of the Atari marketplace is that there are no longer 3rd parties publishing tech info about the newer machines, ala Abacus for example. We folk who like to 'hack' our Ataris are now almost completely at the mercy of Atari for tech info - hardware and OS. Yeah, I know, I could buy a developers kit. Probably will sometime. Wish it were a little more reasonably priced. Maybe Atari will take a hint from IBM who published all the docs and developers tools for OS/2 2.x on a CD for $15. Anyway, probing the Z85C30 has got me interested. Thanks to all the smart folks who keep dumping interesting tid-bits of information here. Mike Allen ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 10 Fri Aug 13, 1993 V.VALENTI at 00:09 EDT Hello, If you have a program on the Atari that uses an OS call to send/recieve a byte through the modem port, is that call supported on the Falcon with- out modification? Vince ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 11 Fri Aug 13, 1993 R.THUROW [Rich] at 03:39 EDT Re the Aladdin scenario: Just my .02. Until I hear Aladdin works, I will not buy a Falcon. Y'all need to quit yappin and get it done! ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 12 Fri Aug 13, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 04:36 EDT Tim, You really should try Aladdin out. Once you use it, you may never want to go back to the manual way of doing it. :-) I cringe at even the tought of having to use GEnie manually again. I hope someone will convert the routines to C. I can speak only a tiny bit of assembly. It would be like writing the article in German. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 13 Fri Aug 13, 1993 STEVE-J [Steve @ NLS] at 05:19 EDT DMJ - Heck! Maybe someone should completely rewrite TOS so that it's compatible with existing versions AND is more efficient as well? M.HILL13 - We're not saying that Aladdin requires DCD or that GEnie requires DCD on the modem. GEnie's 'Aladdin programming guidelines' REQUIRE the Aladdin programmers to program Aladdin to use DCD. D.ENGEL - First of all, Mike Fulton isn't who you should go through to get developer information -- hopefully, he's busy doing more important things! For TOS developer registration information, you should call Atari and ask for Gail Bacani. That's what I did back in early February '93 and I received a package from Atari 3 days later (CA to GA, so it was sent out immediately upon request!). BRIAN.H - I thought they were direct contacts for EXISTING developers, not prospective ones? ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 14 Fri Aug 13, 1993 ICDINC at 12:02 EDT Steve and D.ENGEL, Mike Fulton is the right guy. Gail Bacani doesn't work at Atari anymore. - TOM - ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 15 Fri Aug 13, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 17:05 EDT Steve, Tom is right. Contact either MIKE-FULTON or ATARIDEV. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Friday 13 August 1993 at 05:21 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 16 Fri Aug 13, 1993 P-DIRECT2 [Tim @ TWP] at 18:53 EDT Wayne Watson, I actually hadn't thought of providing C source to perform the functions needed for the SCC. Probably because it would be quite a bit more difficult. Something simple like: move.b D0, $FF8C81.L would become: *((char *)0xFF8C81L) = value; which to me looks a bit messy. This is just one example of the kind of things that would need to be done. Just imagine this: MOVEP.L D0, $FF8C81.L couldn't be done in C, and would have to be implemented as: *((char *)0xFF8C81L) = value>>24; *((char *)0xFF8C83L) = value>>16; *((char *)0xFF8C85L) = value>>8; *((char *)0xFF8C87L) = value; This would dramatically reduce readability and efficiency. Efficiency isn't so important with something this small and so infrequently used compared to most modem operations, but the code would become a total mess. If there is a demand for it, I could rewrite the code in C, but most C compilers come with inline assemblers anyway. BTW, someone tell me if I'm writing those bytes in the right order. :) ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 18 Fri Aug 13, 1993 D.MCNAMEE [Dan @ Atari] at 19:51 EST Vince, -> If you have a program on the Atari that uses an OS call to <- -> send/recieve a byte through the modem port, is that call <- -> supported on the Falcon with- out modification? <- Yes. Dan ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 19 Fri Aug 13, 1993 R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH] at 22:11 EDT All, I tried getting developer info from Mike Fulton via email over a month ago (with a follow-up reminder) and never got anything. On a hint from Nathan Potechin in another catagory, I called Bill Rehbock this past Monday and received the info today! Try calling him at (408) 745-2082. It worked for me. RandyH ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 20 Fri Aug 13, 1993 DMJ [dmj] at 23:17 EDT Steve: - Heck! Maybe someone should completely rewrite TOS so that it's - compatible with existing versions AND is more efficient as well? What a splendid idea. Are you volunteering? But seriously. Most of TOS is pretty good. The point here is that the serial support is lacking. And adding a few system calls to TOS isn't a new concept; as a recent example, Dan Wilga's CJARxxx program provides cookie jar services-- again, something Atari didn't include. I'm not suggesting all of TOS should be replaced, just that where it's "missing" a few pieces, someone should fill them in! And soon, so we can all use the same extensions. -dmj ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 21 Sat Aug 14, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 00:15 EDT I can understand that. I kinda forgot about just putting the code in Lattice C or HS Pascal and just compiling and using it from there. It'll work the same, just place it in a routine and call it. Ok, so nevermind about C code. Hey, I will take the info anyway I can get it. :-) Thanks. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 23 Sat Aug 14, 1993 C.CASSADAY [Chris C.] at 22:43 EDT > >Thunderbird, > > There is a way to write a program that resides on the > boot sector of a floppy that will abort the boot delay. There are > several programs that do this, for example NoRoach. This is the > only legal way that I am aware of. > > Dan Onl ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 25 Sat Aug 14, 1993 D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] at 23:45 EDT DMJ: With programs like Warp 9 and G+ and NVDI replacing the VDI, and with Geneva replacing the AES, and NeoDesk replacing the desktop, the only thing that hasn't been duplicated by a third party is the BIOS portion of the ROMS. Out of all the parts of the ROM to clone, the BIOS is probably the easiest. Dan Wilga and the Codeheads ought to get together with Dave Small or Jim Allen and make an ST Clone with all this nifty software. ______________________ \hunderbird ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 26 Sat Aug 14, 1993 B.FREEMAN1 [BFREEMAN] at 23:45 EDT Thunderbird, My first message was about the four problems with aladdin listed in a previous message and now somehow you've switched it over to bbs's and other stuff. You seem to be going off in various directions and drawing strange conclusions from my replies to your remarks. I'm not an expert on every type of program that uses the serial ports and you don't seem to be very friendly so this will be my last reply about this. >I suppose you're using a 9,600 baud modem or less? If the handshaking is >not functioning, it will not work. Even at 9,600, you're probably getting >error frames Nope, I'm using my nice fast twincom 14.4 and the handshaking works great on my Falcon. If your looking for a patch to get higher baud rates, check out Fserial.prg. Its a german program that works on a megaste, or tt and modifies Rsconf() to get faster baud rates. It may work on a Falcon but I haven't tested it. The docs for it are all in german. >No, it's called "FPATCH.PRG"...I belive it fixed hardware handshaking which >screwed up fast ZMODEM transfers(among other things), but I could have >heard wrong. Gee, I heard it only fixes bconmap() so you can access the lan port and something to do with the internal squeaker. >>>Now a patch for hangup and carrier detect would be nice for people who >>>think they need'em.(hehe) You quoted this out of my previous message. Have you ever heard of a joke!!! ->(hehe)<- means I'm laughing. >I am really quite amazed that someone would actually maintain the belief >that a homebrew terminal program which kludges it's way around the lack of >complete OS routines is evidence that programmers should not have gone to >the hardware. Now this statement looks like a personal attack to me, since you've never even seen my terminal program. Fact: if aladdin had used the perfectly fine os serial routines it would work on my Falcon now. Programmers can go to the hardware all they want, but if they do, they should realize their code is going to break on new machines with new hardware and they shouldn't come crying to me. If you want to send me personal attacks do it in email not in this message base. >All your BBS crapola.... How we've gotten to writting BBS's from my first message about aladdin I'll never know. I try to answer all questions and silly remarks sent to me. Like, "Only a basic terminal can be made with the OS calls". But I'm done with you, and your attitude. I suggest you go on a vacation, learn what a joke is, and find yourself a smile. Then if you send me a friendly message mabye I'll take you out of my twit filter. But until then all future messages from you will be ignored. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 27 Sun Aug 15, 1993 B.DEWITT [NerdPerfect] at 00:16 EDT I'm still having troubles getting a floptical to run on the Falcon using Atari's HD utilities. Has anyone else been able to get one to run? I know the answer is: forget about Atari's software and use ICD's PRO software (the update for which I have sent for); but since the latest version of Atari's HD utilities specifically says it allows the use of flopticals, it just bugs me that it doesn't (plus, I currently have it in my possession, and I don't have the ICD software yet). I am using a Purple Mountain floptical, with the ID set to 0. This works fine with my Mega, but when I try to access the floptical with the Falcon using Atari HDX (even with the partitions set to the Atari standard) the software will recognize that a floptical is connected (as indicated on the bootup screen), then the floptical goes through about four or five cycles of checking/initializing the drive (moving the head around, sounds like), then the DeskTop comes up as usual. However, when the floptical is requested through its DeskTop icon, it chugs through three or four cycles of moving the head around again (sounds like), then an alert box comes up that says "YOUR OUTPUT DEVICE IS NOT RECEIVING DATA"; and that's it. So, what gives, Atari? Does your HDX software work with a floptical or not (and if not, why do the DOCs say that it does)? Like I said, the floptical DOES work on my Mega (using a Link and appropriate ICD Link software). This is getting me very frustrated (and I don't need any more frustration than I alread have....). Can anyone give me any advice here? Frustrated in Orem, Bob deWitt ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 28 Sun Aug 15, 1993 STEVE-J [Steve @ NLS] at 04:40 EDT BRIAN.H - You don't know what "Onl" means? Where have YOU been??? ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 29 Sun Aug 15, 1993 D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] at 09:50 EDT B. Freeman: I've had it up to here with your attitude. If you think you can go around wallowing in your awesome programming prowess because you claim you wrote a basic terminal program that you say works properly, while belittling fine programmers like Tim, you are not welcome here. Your obnoxious boasting about the functionality of your alleged terminal program was tiresome and redundant the _first_ time you wrote it. Why do you insist on slamming Aladdin/Tim and other programs and programmers because they go to the hardware? Your arrogant little innuendos about 'crying to you' because they don't use the 'perfectly fine' OS routines is incredible! Nobody came 'crying' to you! You seized the opportunity to butt into this thread so that your could pretend to be an expert programmer, and prove it through falsehoods, myths, and belittling others. You stand up on your soapbox all high and mighty, casting aspersions upon any programmer who 'goes to the hardware' instead of the OS, and then have the audacity to question WHY I asked you to write a BBS without going to the hardware!!!! If you had even the slightest bit of knowledge pertaining to programming Atari computers for serial communications, you would know exactly WHY you need to go to the hardware. It has been said so many times already, but maybe you missed it: Carrier Detect "DCD" is -----> NOT AVAILABLE <----- to programmers through _any_ OS routine, or any 'perfectly fine' OS routine eother! Now, if you knew _anything at all_ about telecommunications and programming, you would already _know_ WHY you NEED carrier detect. Just because your alleged program allegedly works on a Falcon030, is certainly insufficent evidence that the OS routines are capable of anything at all. If you think you can wheedle you way out of this hole you dug yourself into by pretending you were only kidding, you'd better think again. You've made some very insulting remarks, and infuriated more than a few people with your incessant bragging. This may, or may not be my last post to you regarding this matter, pending your formal apology. __________________________ \hunderbird ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 30 Sun Aug 15, 1993 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 15:21 EDT NerdPerfect, about the only thing I can think of is the cable. I recall someone else had trouble connecting a Falcon to a SCSI hard drive because of some small incompatability in the cable, so perhaps this is your problem as well. It does seem as if the Atari HDX is recognising the floptical, but the system can't read/write to it. This is just a shot in the dark on my part as I really don't understand what differences there may be. Hopefully someone more informed on hardware will pop by to help you. In the meantime, are you sure you have the correct cable? Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 31 Sun Aug 15, 1993 B.SUSLOVIC [Brad] at 19:56 EDT Nerdperfect, Have you edited the WINCAP file so that HDX can get the parameters it needs to format your floptical? I believe there are instructions within it on how to. B.Suslovic ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 33 Sun Aug 15, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 23:26 EDT Bob De Witt, I had similar problems using Atari's latest HDX with my PLI Floptical. Although my problems weren't _quite_ as bad as yours, in that about 75% of the time the floptical was recognized ok. But that 25% failure rate was enough to make me switch to ICD. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Someone else mentioned possible SCSI cable problems. Those little pins in the end of the SCSI cable that plugs into the Falcon can be very easily bent. I've done it accidently enough that I avoid unplugging that cable now unless absolutely necessary. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 34 Mon Aug 16, 1993 R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH] at 00:24 EDT Just to get things back on topic - I need some help with a few questions. I finally picked up a microphone and stero connector so I can record some stuff on the Falcon. AFM and SAM are pretty neat and though they may not be as feature ladden as possible, they are quite adequate to handle the basics (are there any other DSP modules floating around for AFM?) I am, however, now realizing that this audio stuff really takes up memory. I wanted to record a small sample to play on start up, but I have found some problems with this plan. First, a decent sample takes up a lot of RAM and if this is done with SAM, even the startup sound is left in memory for the duration. I don't need to waste this kind of RAM. Another problem with this is that the machine boots up full volume and the sample comes blasting out my poor little speakers. A short bit into the sample, the control panel loads and cuts back the volume to normal (I do like how it starts the sound playing and continues to finish booting). So I removed the startup sound from SAM. I know there is an AUTO program to turn the speaker off, but I don't want it completely off, just set to the correct volume before SAM does its thing. If it can be turned off, couldn't the volume be adjusted, or are these two different operations? Anybody with Falcon info that could code this up real quick? I also played a bit with a program called Fortune as an alternative for a startup sound. It works okay 'cause it runs after the control panel, but it runs as an application and nothing else happens while it is playing. It also turns the screen a sickly green, like the default on the old ST. So, are there any Falcon programmers who can write an AUTO program to set the volume correctly AND start a sample playing AND let the machine finish booting while the sample is playing? I guess this would be my ideal choice for a startup sound. That's not too much to ask is it? If I had some Falcon documentation I might even try it myself - maybe someday. Speaking of SAM, is it not possible to run the mic out through the speakers and have SAM interrupt this just enough to play its system sound and then put it back the way it was. I want to run the cd player through the same speakers. I used WINREC to get the sound playing and with SAM disabled and it continues to play after I quit and even if I run other programs. With SAM enabled, as soon as the first system sound plays, my cd music is gone! It also works to have MTOS running and just leave WINREC in memory, but then again, I can't get same to work at all with MTOS. Does anyone, in fact, have SAM working with MTOS? I mean playing the system sounds, not just being able to call up the ACC and use it. Thanks, RandyH ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 35 Mon Aug 16, 1993 S.FARWIG [STAN] at 02:22 EDT David: Thanks for the tip on UNISPEC, but I've used it since the day it came out. My reference to SPECTRUM in the message to Dan@Atari was made because SPECTRUM, not UNISPEC, was the program Atari told them not to do. Think we'll have its equal on the FALCON someday soon? Couldn't tell too much from the ARTIS demo, but I kind of shy away from paint programs that are filled with all sorts of bells and whistles I don't really need until I know how they're going to handle color manipulation, dithering etc. My impression remains that a lot of people thought SPECTRUM sole accomplishment was in displaying 512 colors. Re: NVRAM. I still don't understand the complaint that the Falcon boots in low rez and looks like hell. my best Stan ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 37 Mon Aug 16, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 10:07 EDT Stan, SKWebb's SEURAT 3.0 sounds like it may be what we're all waiting for. He left an update message today over in the Paint Programs topic that said it should be ready sometime in October. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 38 Mon Aug 16, 1993 R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{] at 10:39 EDT NerdPerfect - I used my Floptical just for a day or two with Atari's HD utilities but changed everything over to ICD's PRO once I got it. The only thing I can remember that might be of help to you is that you must install a BOOTABLE partition if you plan to use the floptical as your boot drive. Somehow that doesn't sound like your problem. Are you running the floptical through the link and DMA port or going stright SCSI? =-= Grouch (:{ =-= ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 39 Sun Aug 15, 1993 D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] (Forwarded) Ron - ABUG: Many of the OS hooks employed by Microsoft _were_ documented as 'reserved' and/or 'undocumented', so therefore the circumstances are identical, rather then the diametrically opposing yarn you just spun. But then, I really shouldn't be correcting you here. Forget what I just said. It's probably just my swelled ego relishing the fact that you made a fatal error in your research. ______________________ \hunderbird 'cause sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 40 Sun Aug 15, 1993 G.MON [Gerry] (Forwarded) Thunderbird: I think you need to reread what Ron - ABUG wrote. His main point was that the main complaint against Microsoft was that they used those undocumented/reserved routines to gain an unfair advantage in their application software. To my knowledge, Atari has not released any application software that uses NVAM for an unfair advantage. This is how I see the situation: Atari developed NVAM for internal purposes. They wanted an easy way for them to configure their machines for different countries/markets. Instead of having to produce different language versions of their ROMs, they could just make one version (thus saving money) which contains all the languages and then configure the machine at the factory with NVAM. That's all NVAM was really designed for. Atari doesn't want to document NVAM because it could easily change at any time. NVAM was probably quickly put together and Atari doesn't want to set anything in stone by documenting it. You don't want to add "quickly thought up features" to an OS and then setting it in stone. You might end up regretting it at a later time. Finally, I think it's perfectly reasonable for Atari to issue a warning against the use of NVAM.CPX. It is a dangerous program for a lot of users out there. Atari has already seen cases where a machine has been made unbootable because of it. You might say that those users with TOS 4.04 can safely use it but I've seen a lot of people out there who don't even know how to determine which TOS version they have! --Gerry ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 41 Mon Aug 16, 1993 D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] (Forwarded) Gerry: I don't dispute that Atari hasn't used undocumented features to their own advantage like Microsoft did. I only pointed out that reserving things by not documenting them is seen in a bad light these days. If something shoudln't be messed with, the documentation should not be: NVRAM Addresses $00-$FF: RESERVED, PROPRIETARY INFORMATION. but rather: NVRAM Address $00 - Boot Resolution (DO NOT USE, WILL CHANGE IN FUTURE) $01 - Keyboard Language (DO NOT USE, WILL CHANGE IN FUTURE) $02 - DeskTop Language (DO NOT USE, WILL CHANGE IN FUTURE) $03 - etc. etc. etc. By the way, NVRAM wasn't a hastily thrown together idea, since it was over a year ago that Atari spokesmen were touting the Configurable NVRAM as a "Feature" of the machine. My problem is the fact that people might buy a F030 expecting to be able to use that feature, only yo find out they can't. If they said it included a mouse, but when you opened the box and there was no mouse, only a warning _never_ to connect a mouse to it, you'd be upset too... ________________________ \hunderbird ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 43 Mon Aug 16, 1993 J.KRACHT [James Kracht] at 21:46 EDT RandyH: You might get ahold of Sinister Development's F-BOOT utility (in the library, I believe) to set your Falcon's volume from a boot sector on the floppy disk. It's the first thing that will happen -- the volume will be set even before the memory test. That should do the trick, I hope. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 45 Mon Aug 16, 1993 R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH] at 23:17 EDT After some experimenting, I found that if SAM runs after MINT in the AUTO folder and if the SAM_SET.CPX is not present, then the system sounds work with Multi-TOS. Not only do they work, they even work from the desktop (ie when you open a window to a drive partition on the desktop, the open window sound plays). I have done some very limited testing by running a few other applications and everything seems to work fine. The documentation says that MINT should be run last in the AUTO folder so does anyone know if running SAM after MINT will cause any problems? Also, with Multi-TOS loaded, the FORTUNE program plays its sound after the desktop is loaded and you can't even tell it is there (except for the sound and the prg name in the DESK menu). The only problem there is if you do something to cause a system sound to play before the FORTUNE sound is finished, it can cause a crash or SAM can get messed up (thinking someone else has control of the sound system). With care not to do anything until the FORTUNE sound is finished, the set-up seem to be pretty good. Just wish MTOS didn't slow things down so much (or should I say AES w/MTOS). Now if I could just get my cd player to come through the speakers and co-exist with SAM, I'd be really happy! RandyH ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 46 Tue Aug 17, 1993 MIKE.KELLER [ST Aladdin] at 00:38 EST || Fact: if aladdin had used the perfectly fine os serial || ||routines it would work on my Falcon now. Programmers can go || ||to the hardware all they want, but if they do, they should || ||realize their code is going to break on new machines with new || ||hardware and they shouldn't come crying to me. || First, if Tim had gone with the standard OS routines, what kind of performance would Aladdin have had? Not good, I'm sure. It would not have been adequate for a product supported by GEnie, nor up to Tim's rather high standards. Second, I'm sure Tim was aware that Aladdin would break if the hardware changed. That's the way it works. It's just that one would like to know about this stuff, y'know? Third, who are the programmers crying to you? Far as I can tell, they're all waiting for Atari. Lotta smoke in this topic. Open a window! mike.k ------------ Stan, you can't satisfy everyone, no matter what you do. When you get a high profile, cronic complainer unhappy, it begins to sound like a big deal, but it's not, really. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 48 Tue Aug 17, 1993 TOWNS [John] at 12:30 EDT Telling people what things are and telling them not to use it NEVER works. People use it, depend on it, and then Atari is stuck holding the bag supporting someone's brain damaged code. I strongly agree with not documenting things that are going to change. You may not like it, but I think it was the right thing to do. Another point.. Atari hasn't done the same thing that Microsoft has done. Atari didn't publish NVRAM information and HASN'T used that unpublished information in any of its applications programs. Microsoft didn't document those calls and their applications developers were allowed to use them. That is wrong. What Atari did is something that computer companies have been doing for a very long time: protecting the flexibility of the system for future expansion. -- John ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 52 Wed Aug 18, 1993 T.ANDREI [Tim] at 18:16 EDT Just a question regarding the 19200 baud OS limit. Is this really an OS limit or just the CPX limit. This looks like the same CPX as before for setting the baud rates. Maybe it was just an easy port -or- copy for Falcon030 users. I guess in other words, might this whole issue be solved with the release of a new CPX tht handles the rs232 port to its full capacity Tim ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 55 Wed Aug 18, 1993 J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 22:22 EDT Tim... 19200 baud is an OS limit. There's a call called Rsconf() that's used for setting the baud rate, among other serial-port type things. The highest baud rate currently permitted by this call is 19200. To get anything higher than that one needs to attack the hardware directly, setting the proper clock divisor rate, etc. John T. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 56 Wed Aug 18, 1993 J.BATTEY1 [J. L. Battey] at 22:48 EDT Stan, >If some folks blamed Atari for Spectrum breaking on later machines, >they obviously didn't read the Spectrum manual, and that was >unfortunate. Much as I hate to say it, and without making specific accusations, the problem in many cases Re this & other App's that break is that they sold the manual with the distribution disk, or never owned it at all, and so they can't refer back to it when a problem occurs. It is a situation I have seen many times, both as a Computer Sales person at one of the Federated Electronics stores (Plano, TX) and as a person who is known as a local "answerman". The only good I ever saw come of it was when a guy got a TOS 1.02 1040ST as a warranty replacement. When he brought in several disks of pirated games that "broke" on the Mega ROMs he ended up buying $200.+ of software because I called him a theif in front of his teenage son (it made his Saturday!). Wayne Watson >I was relying on FACTS told to me by a DEVELOPER. THAT is called HEARSAY. Not admissable as evidence! ?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~? An acquaintance of mine is head of engineering for a local cable TV company. When he looked at Atari's brochure on the Falcon (it mentions "adding surround sound to your VCR") he speculated about using the DSP for PAL/NTSC or SeCam/NTSC conversion, possibly in realtime. He says that equipment he has seen for purpose-built for the job was based on a DSP56001. Anyone here know enough to comment? I couldn't tell him yes or no. John L. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 57 Wed Aug 18, 1993 R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{] at 22:48 EDT Here is a Question: Giving an application a unique look and dragging it out on the desktop for easy access is a nice feature of the Falcon, but what I want to know is there any way to set things up so that when you double click on the the icon it will automatically set the proper resolution for running the program? Thanks in advance for any hints, tricks, or outright answers that may come along. =-= Grouch (:{ =-= ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 58 Wed Aug 18, 1993 D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] at 22:56 EDT Towns: You are incorrect. Atari _has_ indeed produced softwares which use this undocumented NVRAM jiggery-pokery. It's called 'CONFIG.PRG' or something like that. I really wanted to write a NVRAM configuration program for the F030, but Atari is only giving that info to Atari's programmers. But who cares about all that, anyways? The real issue (and the one you chose not to respond to) is the fact that people were _told_ they would be able to do all kinds of nifty things with the NVRAM, and now they are being told to avoid it like the black plague. Why? _________________________ \hunderbird ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 59 Thu Aug 19, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 01:08 EDT T Bird, I thing that the COnfig.PRG falls under the "operating System" part of software development, as opposed to "applications" If AtariWorks changed NVRam to german because you selected a German Spell checker, _THAT_ would be a similar situation. Pointless and probably really annoying, but similar. ~Chris ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 60 Thu Aug 19, 1993 K.OLSON10 [KenO.] at 18:16 EDT Help desk please! I have this program CALLTIME3 which dials the Naval Observatory and sets my computer to the correct time. It has worked fine on my MSTe. But when I use it on the falcon it locks the system after I get the on screen message that it is dialing. I contacted the author. He is no longer using ATARI and does not have a falcon so he declined to offer any help. I got the program as a file in GEnie ST lib. (don't have the file number). If anyone is using this prg and has this problem how did you solve it? BTW it is a great program everyone on GEnie with an ST should be using it. Check it out. KenO. :) ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 61 Thu Aug 19, 1993 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 20:09 EDT Dave, you keep going on and on about all these promises Atari made about NVRAM. Could you please list them so the rest of us can figure out who to believe? The only news I recall was that the different languages/keyboard layouts would all be on the standard TOS chips and would be user configurable (mostly I recall Dot's exstatic reaction to that news)... and guess what? You can! Wilfred (ATARI.BENLUX) himself wrote the program, and I believe he uploaded it here. He's certainly offered to e-mail it to anyone who want's/need's it. If you could please list all these promises you seem so hot under the collar over Atari 'breaking' then the rest of us could figure out for ourselves if you're right or Atari's right... and this whole, pointless, flamewar can be put to rest once and for all. (I can't believe how long this has dragged on, but then I see the whole thing as utterly trivial. Maybe others believe it's earth-shatering....) Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 62 Thu Aug 19, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 22:36 EDT Tim, It was an easy port for them. They didn't have to redo the CPX at all. Even Atari still insist on using 19200 baud. I haven't heard of a new CPX (or anything) from Atari that allowed higher than 19200. As far as I know (may be wrong though), there isn't anything in the OS to set it higher either. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 63 Thu Aug 19, 1993 B.DEWITT [NerdPerfect] at 22:39 EDT Thanks to everyone for your replies to my question about getting a floptical to work with the Falcon using Atari's (flawed) HDX utilities. Unfortunately, none of them worked, except for the one that we all knew from the beginning: I finally received my upgrade from ICD. I installed it today, and it works like a charm. (I still don't understand why Atari would release a Hard Drive driver that states it will work with a floptical when it apparently doesn't....?) Perplexed in Orem, Bob deWitt ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 64 Fri Aug 20, 1993 J.KRACHT [James Kracht] at 00:16 EDT Charlie: RE: NVRAM "flamewar" No, sir, this is not a "war." It isn't even a flaming one. Here's one side, made clear, so you can "see" it: Position: "That bootup res on the Falcon is really ugly. The sales people cringe when they show the Falcon to prospective customers. It just doesn't look _professional_. The customers agree." Does that make sense? It does to me, considering the dealer here is a music store, with a Mac system, and an IBM system sitting next to the Falcon. What are people to think? I fully appreciate the fact that the 320x200 ugly bootup res is a _compatibility_ thing for GAMES. What I cannot appreciate is the idea that I should not _want_ to change the ugly bootup res. An idea provided by Atari, and clouded by ancient promises of user-configurable NVRAM. Shouldn't there at least be a glimmer of agreement on Atari's side that the ugly bootup is, indeed, ugly? Shouldn't their dealer units going to music dealers be configured to look as professional as possible? What musicians _truly_ have the game compatibility concern? Position: "We at Atari strongly recommend you not alter the NVRAM. It is not meant to be altered by the public. Doing so may cause us a tremendous number of headaches." This seems perfectly straightforward to me. Makes sense. Problem is, it doesn't apply on the street. People _own_ their machines. What they put into them (i.e., alter) is their business. It also can void the warranty, but heck, it still happens. So why tilt at windmills, especially when the windmill itself is in danger of being the thing crushed? The Falcon population is far too small to start handing down commandments, don't you think? James BTW, that CONFIG program didn't show up until this little "flamewar" started. In fact, I believe it was a direct response (at least here on GEnie), or rather, direct result. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 65 Fri Aug 20, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:29 EDT Ken, I don't use it on the Falcon, but I have used it for years on the ST and TT. I sometimes have to turn the modem off and on to get it to dial out OK. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 66 Fri Aug 20, 1993 STEVE-J [Steve @ NLS] at 05:37 EDT ARCHIVIST - I specifically recall things such as the bootup resolution also being mentioned that the user could configure. Since it's been over a year now since the Falcon030 was officially announced, I don't care that much about it to go searching through a year's worth of RTC transcripts and archived message topics. How about a Falcon AUTO program that switched the machine into a different resolution (that ran first, so all the rest of the AUTO programs start up in that resolution)? The ICD HD booter allows setting the resolution on ST machines -- how about having the new "Pro Utilities" have that, but for Falcon030 resolutions (if it doesn't already). ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 67 Fri Aug 20, 1993 D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] at 05:58 EDT Charley/Sysop Promises, promises... #1) Language of screen #2) Language of keyboard #3) Bootup Resolution #4) Bootup Delay These were the ones I thought were important to me... I don't recall the others, as they didn't mean much to me. BTW: I wouldn't know about them unless someone at Atari told us... _________________ \hunderbird 'cause they said it was 32 bits too... remember?!?!?!?!??!?! ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 68 Fri Aug 20, 1993 ATARI.BENLUX [W. Kilwinger] at 06:40 EDT B.DEWITT [NerdPerfect], > >a charm. (I still don't understand why Atari would release a Hard Drive driver >that states it will work with a floptical when it apparently doesn't....?) > Atari stated NOT 'a floptical', Atari specified exactly WHICH floptical. It seems that you have different type ?. I like to here which type/brand you have since I'll pass that information to our developer group. Regards, Wilfred PS >These Hard Drive utilities are the latest for the Falcon030 as of >June 8th, 1993 =1993 Atari Corporation > >You should back up your hard disk and reformat with this HDX and use >this hard disk booter. (SHDRIVER.SYS) > >These utilities correct a small bug in the GEMDOS (Disk Operating >System) on Falcons that can cause a hard disk partition to become >corrupted if the previous partition is filled completely during a >write operation. (This is easy to do with Direct-to-Disk recording >systems such as Musicom, FalconD2D, and DigiTape.) > >These utilities also now have the following support: > >AHDI 6.06 will allow you to read and write to the InSite I235VM >floptical drive. (Note: this drive takes at least a 10-12 second >spin up time before booting the computer) > >HDX 5.04 will be able to format and partition the InSite I235VM >floptical drive. > > ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 70 Fri Aug 20, 1993 ICDINC at 12:12 EDT Steve-J, Good point. Oops. I forgot to mention that HDUTIL and the booter from ICD SCSI Pro Utilities (for the Falcon, TT, and STs) does allow you to select the boot resolution from any of the possible resolutions that a computer supports. SO no need for that in NVRAM. - TOM - ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 71 Fri Aug 20, 1993 J.NESS [Jim] at 14:44 EDT The explanation I saw from Eric Rosenquist was that the interrupt priority level for "incoming character waiting" (in the original ST RS232 port) was set too low by Atari, for anything higher than 19200. Thus, TOS could receive characters so fast that two could arrive before it had become aware of the first one. The first one would then be lost. The new modem port, and its interrupt hardware and service routines, are fast enough to handle higher bps rates. -JN ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 72 Fri Aug 20, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 21:06 EDT I assume that although Atari warns against users configuring NVRAM, they probably have the abilty to do so at the factory. Since this user was VERY concerned about it booting up in low or medium resolution, not because of aesthetics but because the low resolution inhibited my ability to use my bootup configuration program; Xboot, I suggest that when a customer orders a Falcon 030 that the dealer ask the customer what type of monitor they will be using and offer the bootup resolution as a factory set option much the same as the RAM or HD size. Wouldn't that be an effective compromise? Several people suggested that I use another boot-up program but one of the main reasons I bought a Falcon and didn't jump ship to another platform, (which after waiting a year for the bird I was sorely tempted to do) was Atari's encouragement that the new system was highly downward compatible. I've had the thing for several weeks now and I'm still waiting for a few key programs to be upgraded so I can actually use the thing for something other than playing "Landmines." This is just a coincidence as I have tried running other programs the do work fine. Don't think that I'm not happy with the machine, especially after I took the chance and reset the NVRAM, but it looks like it's gonna be quite a while 'til I can do things like 8 track digital recording or networking with my other computer. OK, that's about enough out of me for a few weeks... carry on carrying on. ~:^)X ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 73 Fri Aug 20, 1993 AEO.MAG [?] Travis [?] at 23:26 EDT Flakes, What problems are you having regarding networking your Falcon030? Just curious. --Travis ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 74 Sat Aug 21, 1993 P-DIRECT2 [Tim @ TWP] at 00:01 EDT One of the biggest problems with the IBM clone market is that all the manufacturers and programmers are being FORCED to maintain compatibility with all the mistakes made in the past. We all know how poorly designed the ISA bus, Intel CPU's, and Microsoft operating systems are, but since so many developers have used them, they can't be changed and numerous programs would break if any of these poor designs were to change. Sure, there have been improvements, but how long did it take for things like VESA to become popular? It wasn't over night. Now Atari has NVRAM. This is something that they knew they slapped together, and they're bright enough to discourage use of it. Aside from the problems they've mentioned, any programs that use it could break in the future if Atari changed it. But that's not the bad part! If too many programs used it, then Atari would feel compelled to keep it the way it is, thereby restricting their flexibility. This would put them into the same position that all the clone m manufacturers are finding themselves in... someone made a mistake, too many people used that mistake, and now we're stuck with it. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 75 Sat Aug 21, 1993 G.MON [Gerry] at 02:02 EDT Thunderbird: Are you sure it was Atari that made those promises? Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't remember Atari ever making such promises to its users. I vaguely remember Atari mentioning NVRAM but I don't recall them making any statements about its purpose. It's easy to forget who said what in the hectic past. Is it possible for you to be confusing what was said by developers or users as promises made by Atari? For example: 1) Language of the screen. 2) Language of the keyboard. I seem to remember it was Dorothy who made these statements. She was trying to share information with us about her developer's Falcon030 and she was describing how easily the Falcon030 can change the language of the screen and keyboard with the help of a simple configuration program. But she had a _developer's_ unit and as such, it would probably contain programs only meant for developers. I believe the configuration program was one of these. As the topic drifted, people began to believe that Atari had made a promise that the Falcon was user configurable in this regard. But in reality, they did not. Think about it. Is this the type of thing a typical user in the U.S. would want to change? This type of thing is only useful for a developer who might be interested in marketing their program in a foreign country. When a developer is talking about features in their developer's machine, we shouldn't take these things as 'given' in the end user's machine. By definition, a developer's machine is basically a prototype and hence subject to change. In addition, a developer has different needs from the typical end user. Hence, a developer's machine would probably contain features that will not be present in the consumer's machine. 3) Bootup resolution. I have no recollection of anyone at Atari making such a promise. 4) Bootup Delay. I think this started with Jim Allen. A lot of people were complaining about the bootup delay with TOS 2.06 (and up). Jim Allen then mentioned that it would probably be easy to write a small program using the NVRAM to store the desired bootup delay. Actually, now that I think about it, maybe he was talking about his Turbo030 accelerator. It's hard to remember! Anyway, the main point I'm trying to make is that I honestly think Atari did _not_ make any such promises. I think these 'promises' originated from our faulty memories! It started out as discussions amongst ourselves and pretty soon we believed that Atari had made certain statements which they did not. I hope what I'm saying is making sense. By the way, it's entirely possible that it is _my_ memory that is faulty. If you have evidence of Atari actually making such promises (in the form of old transcripts etc.), I would be interested in seeing them. --Gerry ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 76 Sat Aug 21, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 04:26 EDT TBird: They still say "32 Bit". it's plastered in big letters on the side of the Falcon box. ~Chris ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 77 Sat Aug 21, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 08:26 EDT Tom, As far as I am concerned and have seen, Atari will ALWAYS be behind ICD in HD support. Thier software don't even come close. It isn't allowed ANYWHERE near my machine. The only way they can catch up is if they licensed ICD's software to distribute. They should have done that to begin with. :-) Now if their HD drivers were anything like AtariWorks, it may have been a different story. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 78 Sat Aug 21, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 13:51 EDT >What problems are you having regarding networking your Falcon030? Just >curious. None. I don't have a networking program yet because a) After reading the messages in the Universal Network TOP I'm unsure if the program is Falcon compatible, b) Toad computers informs me that there will be a new netwoking progam introduced "real soon now." ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 79 Sat Aug 21, 1993 B.SUSLOVIC [Brad] at 14:55 EDT Atari/All Here's a brief history of my HD problems, and an undoubtable cure. You all better be sitting down for this one. Falcon 1 Returned for questionable problems with the SCSI port. 1 Maxtor 7080s completely inoperable after connection to Falcon 1, upgraded to a 7213s from the manufacturer. 1 unused Rodime 3259TP completely inoperable after connection to Falcon 1 as stated by a repair Tech, beyond economical repair, replaced it with a refurbished 3259tp. Falcon 2 returned, problems with the internal IDE. Rodime #2, inoperable after connection to Falcon 2, maintenance track trashed, under warranty, repaired, received, same problem occurred, returned, awaiting another replacement to try. Maxtor 7213s returned, after a period of time it wouldn't spin up with terminator resistors installed, under warranty, received replacement. Note both of the last drives mentioned were tested independently. Falcon 3 After a little cross referencing I discovered that the Falcons SCSI port included, on standard pin 21, +5volts! Anyone not aware, pin 21 is ground on most SCSI devices, as are all of the odd numbered pins!! The manual even says this pin is hot, although it's numbered pin 11. I checked it with a voltmeter, and sure enough there it was. Funny there was no term power on pin 26, where it was supposed to be. I've since removed this pin from my cable. I've since, not had any problems. Guess it's out of the question to get reimbursed,for my dead drives, right? Could the speed issue have any thing to do with this, meaning the programed delays in the driver software? It really doesn't make sense that my TOS 1.00 STs' DMA port is twice as fast as my Falcon030s "SCSI II"!!! In my quest for the truth, I called a major HD hardware/software developer. Both shocked, and apprehensive at what I had to say, this tech wouldn't verify anything for me. I also called a popular Dealer/Authorized service center, who would not verify it either, just saying, "contact Atari". Maybe Atari has some purpose for this hot pin to ground. How 'bout some input Atari! Brad Suslovic ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 80 Sat Aug 21, 1993 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 14:56 EDT Dave, well #1 and #2 are covered now. I'll even agree the utility should have been installed on the HD's at the factory along with the other programs. While the vast majority of NA users would have no use for it it would be one less thing to mess with in the warehouses and therefor more cost effective for Atari. Maybe it will happen that way in the future. The boot delay I've always handled on my MSTE the same way I do under O/S 2, with a tap on the space bar. I know others here have used utilities such as no roach to by-pass it in the past and I'm sure they will in the future, but I won't. Utterly trivial; I'll never lose a moments sleep over it. The boot resolution thing really flumuxes me, though. When this first came up I thought it was a return of the TOS 1.6 bug where you could not boot to medium rez even if you saved the desktop to it. That, IMHO, would be a serious bug. This business of staring at the machine while it boots I can't even laugh at. I don't know about you but on average I only boot my machine once a day, and I don't watch it. I mean, I don't stare at it while it's off because I can't DO anything with it while it's off. I can't DO anything with it till it hits the desktop either, so I don't watch it. About the only time I have to reboot during the day is if I play a European game. (And that, BTW, is one of MY pet peaves. I really, really hate the arrogance/lazyness/incompetance of european game programmers who seem to assume that playing their cheezy little game is the only thing I'll ever want to do with my machine, all day long, and won't put a simple 'Quit to desktop' option in their programs, forcing me to reboot and causing needless wear on the HD etc. I don't bother to make a fuss about it here, though, because I don't believe it would change anything.) Even if you were running a 'not very well behaived' program and had to reboot often I don't see the boot screen as any less attractive or professional than white, grainy, 12point text on a black background, which I find very hard on the eye's. This on a machine with gob's of memory, better than photo colour, and more raw processing power than the computers on the original Starship Enterprise. Do you think if maybe I went over to the IBM RT and made w weeks Bill Gates would cave in and make Dos look more professional? I don't. Look, I do understand where you're coming from. It's part of our modern mythology that if you make a hairy stink of yourself people will eventually give you what you want just to be shut of you. I'm sure it's even true in some cases, but I don't believe it's very effective. Most corporate exec's have taken to insulating themselves from the public and depend on market research companies to keep them informed just to avoilter out the noise. These types of haranges always fall on the ears of lower management who can do nothing but rephrase the abuse in a polite, business like manor and THEN pass it on to upper management. That's why I brought this up, you know. I'm sure the message has been relayed to Atari's management by now, and I'm equally sure that continuing this flamewar is doing nothing more than aggravating people who can do nothing about the situation. Like me. The signal to noise ratio in this topic is considering PERming this topic I'm sure others are as well, and that's simply a loss. Charlie ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 81 Sat Aug 21, 1993 J.KRACHT [James Kracht] at 15:45 EDT So who knows anything about 68882s, and has anyone slapped one in their machine yet? James ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 82 Sat Aug 21, 1993 AEO.MAG [?] Travis [?] at 17:09 EDT Flakes, Ok. Just so you know. Chris Latham, the guy who designed Universal Network, has had a new Falcon030 compatable network out for some time now. It's called "PowerNet" and works wonderful. There may be some more interesting networking news to come shortly. When it does, it'll be in AEO. But for now, there _is_ a Falcon030 compatable LAN on the market. Take care. --Travis ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 83 Sat Aug 21, 1993 C.OINES1 [Chazz] at 18:19 EDT I've got an '882 in my Falcon, but I can't tell you how well it works yet -- I had the misfortune to require in-warranty service and haven't seen my Falcon in nearly a month because of it. The update time in Phoenix 512 seemed quite a bit faster when we tested it, tho. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 84 Sat Aug 21, 1993 P-DIRECT [Sean@TWP] at 21:02 EDT One odd note to add to the NVRAM confusion: Listed on the inside front cover of the Atari Falcon 030 manual: "MODIFICATIONS Changes or modifications not expressly approved by Atari Corporation could void the user's authority to operate the equipment." Does this mean that by changing or modifing NVRAM, Atari can make you never turn on your Falcon030 again? Does it mean that if Atari says you can't use a "X" brand replacement mouse and you do they could, again, make you never turn on your Falcon030 again? Take this one step further, what if they don't allow you to modify your RAM by loading in a particular program (such as a competitor of Atari Works'). Even better, since when did Atari give us the "authority" to use our machines, and what gives them the power to take this away? After all, don't I own my machine? Just something else that is on the odd side... Sean Dougherty Two Worlds Publishing (to rip off a Thunderbird'ism) 'cause I don't want to have to get a signed letter from Atari telling me I can use my new program or hardware add-on ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 85 Sun Aug 22, 1993 D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] at 08:22 EDT Charlie: I'm sure you will agree that different people are entitled to their own opinions on things. Different situations place different requirements on people, too. Your computer useage is much different than mine, and it is because of this we have different priorities. I develop software on my ST, and hope to have a Falcon030 to continue writing software for (as soon as Bill Rehbock gets back online and reads all the mail about it ;-) ). In the course of developing software in assembly language, crashes can occur often as part of the debugging process. Also, testing for compatibility with various accessories and auto programs means rebooting _many_ times. If I am testing or debugging and have a programming issue or idea on my mind, I do not want to have to babysit my computer and press a key to get it to boot faster... I would prefer it boot by itself in the shortest amount of time possible. This is how I prefer it. If I have to stop my train of thought to watch the screen and wait for the drive to spin-up and then hit a key, then I may lose track of an important idea. This is how I use my computer, and this is why I would like to configure the machine to boot itself. I don't even know if other programmers would find the current boot process distracting, but I do. NOROACH or something like it would be nice, but I am writing game software, which occupies the boot sector where you would normally put noroach, so that's out too. (You'll be happy to know that _I_ included a "Quit to DeskTop" function in my game, though.) Personally, I also find the low-rez boot screens to be rather ugly too. They just give the machine a toy-ishness that I don't feel comfortable with. This is also just my opinion. But then remember that it wouldn't be unusual for me to have to look at it 20 times in one afternoon. I hope I have given you some insight as to my reasons for wanting to be able to configure like this. At least I hope to have convinced you that my computer use is not the same as yours and because of that I have different priorities. I think that there are a lot of users who could benefit from the use of NVRAM to configure these things, and with proper documentation, well behaved NVRAM programs could be written which would not allow users to muck-up their systems. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn that the NVRAM.CPX messes up Falcon030's because the programmers were not given any documentation and had to try and figure it out for themselves. Who do you blame in this case? Undisclosed information is a double-edged sword, which can prove fatal if not handled properly. Even if you still don't understand what the big deal is, I'm sure you'll agree that no two people use their computers the same way and that a computer that can be adjusted to fit many people's needs is better than one that is permanently set to the needs of a few. ______________________ \hunderbird - - - - - - - - - - - - Note - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I wish everyone would stop calling honest differences of opinion 'flamewars'. There is not a whole lot of flaming going on around here. We have seen both sides of the issue from several different perspectives, with only a small amount of the "This is how it should be because your thoughts don't mean diddly and you're wrong anyways." which can be seen in other topics. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 86 Sun Aug 22, 1993 J.NESS [Jim] at 11:24 EDT Speaking, non-topically, of the TOS 2.06 boot delay... I recently upgraded, and faintly remember that there's a program which aborts most of that delay..? If so, what's it's name and/or file number? Sean - Re: Atari's permission to use the machine. Atari grants you a license to use TOS. You own the hardware, but you are licensed to use TOS and their other software. They can retract that license at any time. I'm sure you'll abide by their wishes. Heh heh. -JN ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 87 Sun Aug 22, 1993 B.SUSLOVIC [Brad] at 14:42 EDT Jim, NOROACH does that, it should be on your TEC utilities disc. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 88 Sun Aug 22, 1993 R.WHITTAM [Ron - ABUG] at 15:29 EDT Thunderbird: This looks like a good place for the NVRAM discussion started in the AW topic, eh? . . .no error in my research. I have kept a close eye on MS's undocumented feature allegations and the issue is JUST NOT THE SAME. The claim is that MS used the 'undocumented' features to get an unfair advantage in the application competition. That's NOT the case here. No one is accusing ATARI of being unfair (except maybe you). To me, its just a prudent warning needed to be headed by mostly all Falcon computer users. By the way, I'm not just talking "through my hat", I run a PC consulting business and researching the MS world is just part of my job. Let it be known, I love the Atari computer. However, I make money helping people on the DOS machines (Atari owners don't need much help due to the fact that they are using an Atari). Ron - ABUG ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 89 Sun Aug 22, 1993 G.MON [Gerry] at 15:57 EDT Thunderbird: Since you are writing game software, can I make a request? Forget about using the bootsector and make it hard drive installable. This has two benefits: The users with hard drives will greatly appreciate it and you can use NOROACH.PRG to set up the boot up delay. --Gerry ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 91 Sun Aug 22, 1993 M.STEFANI [MCH] at 17:31 EDT This may be a 'dumb' question, but is there any problem using ICD utility software to set-up the Falcon? I've owned two hard drives previously (Conner/Maxtor) and both came with ICD host adaptors. I like the software and it appears to be superior to what came with the Falcon, but I just wanted to be sure before proceeding. And if it's okay to use it, is there anything 'special' that I need to know? Thanks in advance... Mark Stefani ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 92 Sun Aug 22, 1993 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 18:33 EDT Dave, I quite understand that everyone uses their machine differently. That's a good thing, IMHO. I'm glad to hear your game has a 'quit' button too, ;-), and I wish you luck with it. It's not just programs under development that crash often, either ;-(, but I hope you agree that it's you who are the minority here. Very few people program for themselves. I believe the majority of people are more like me, using their machines either for productivity or entertainment and moving from one well behaived program to another without a lot of intermitent crashes. I certainly don't keep a program that crashes a lot on my system unless it's something I really need. No, this isn't quite a Flamewar; flamewar inplies people shouting at each other, which isn't happening here. This isn't a discussion either as that implies two sides that are open to change, which isn't what's happening here either. ;-) In fact, this reminds me a great deal of the 1/8th vs. RCA jack debate back in January. Then as now both sides had valid points of view and a lot of sides of the issue were seen. When it reached the point where it was obvious that neither side could dn't stop. That debate, and IMHO this one, went beyond making a point into belabouring the point. No offense intended, bharacter trait of yours, Dave. :-) Look, I certainly don't want you to drop this altogether as it's something that's developers, just as I hope you haven't entirely dropped the RCA jack thing. The point was made that once NVRAM is documend in stone', something Atari is unwilling to do at this point. For regular users like me that's fine; we can wait for a fFor you and other programers having that done sooner rather than later is important so I certainly think you should keep after Bill Rebock and Mike Fulton to encourage the TOS group to establish and document this feature, and perhaps raise it higher on their priority list. However, Bill and Mike are the only ones (that I know of) who can help you with that; the rest of us here can't do a thing. So that was my whole point. I just feel that the debate here has gone as far as it can and is becoming quite a bore to the rest of us. That lead me to consider perming this topic, and if I had reached that point I felt others had too. Since this is a 'help and questions' topic it's a loss for us all if people start perming it because that means there are fewer people to provide help. Perhaps others still have new sides to bring to this issue, and if so I'd never want to discourage that, but I haven't seen any in a while. That's all it was to me. Charlie ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 93 Sun Aug 22, 1993 TOWNS [John] at 20:06 EDT For what it is worth.. I don't have a problem with people using NVRAM. I have a problem with people modifying NVRAM using something that isn't release (i.e. a product) of Atari. This is dangerous and you are putting your machine in the hands of some programmer who may or may not know what he is doing! Perhaps someone should ask Bill Rehbock, Bob Brodie, or Eric Smith what is would take to get an authorized Atari utility that would let you configure your NVRAM... Who knows, maybe they will get it done. (If I had an Atari.. I would write the program myself!) If the NVRAM setup changes in future machines, they can check for it at Startup and reconfigure it for you. I know that is possible, I am the one the created the layout of NVRAM for the Falcon, I wrote the program that the Factory uses to program NVRAM, and I helped write the code that reads the NVRAM at boot-time. Anyway, that is how I see it. -- John ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 94 Sun Aug 22, 1993 C.ROUNTREE2 [RoadKill] at 20:43 EDT Ken: The Falcon has some changes to the serial port hardware. If the programmer broke the rules for modem programming (as 99% do) then it wont work on a Falcon. Aladdin is an example. __ | ) | \oadKill-- ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 95 Sun Aug 22, 1993 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 21:14 EDT Mark, I'm not sure your current ICD software will work without the ICD host adaptor attached to the machine, and you can't do that because there's no DMA port. As far as I know ICD's software comes in two varieties; the regular program for those with an ICD host adaptor and the ICD PRO version for those without. You could probably get a better answer from the ICD RT here on GEnie, but I suspect you'll need to upgrade to the ICD PRO software. I don't know what/if that will cost, though. Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 96 Sun Aug 22, 1993 B.DEWITT [NerdPerfect] at 21:34 EDT James; I just had a 68882 installed in my Falcon. The speed increase as indicated by GEMbench seemed pretty good overall. I didn't write the numbers down (compared to a plain vanilla Falcon), and I don't have my Falcon in front of me right now, but as soon as I can I'll post some benchmark numbers for you (for whatever they might mean). I do remember that the overall rating of the Falcon with the co-processor installed was something like 104% that of a standard TT (some things were faster, some were slower). I ran a simple rendering test using Lexicor's Phoenix with and without the co- processor just to see if it was working. (Phoenix has a version that is optimised to work with the '882.) The results are a rough indication at best (it wasn't scientifically done, to say the least--I just used my pocket-watch to time the rendering times....), but here goes: without the '882, the rendering time was 4 minutes and 5 seconds. With the '882, the rendering time was 2 minutes and 55 seconds. Not an incredible difference, but if my math is anywhere near correct, that's about a 30% gain in rendering speed (I never was any good at math, so figure it out for yourself if you want to be sure....). Anyway, for rendering things, any increase is significant as far as I'm concerned (two hours for rendering something instead of three hours is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, as my Dad used to say :) ). Your mileage may vary, as they say.... Bob deWitt ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 97 Mon Aug 23, 1993 M.STEFANI [MCH] at 00:40 EDT Charlie, Thanks for the prompt reply and advice. I suspected that it wouldn't be quite that simple. I'll check the ICD RT or call ICD tomorrow! Mark Stefani ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 99 Mon Aug 23, 1993 E.WINDELL [GENE] at 01:50 EDT Sean, I think that "modifications" statement in the Falcon030 manual was referring to modifying the DSP in such a way as to emit particle beams which would scramble the brains of domestic animals and children weighing less than 30 pounds. Obviously a product liability disclaimer, which proves once again that we have too many lawyers. Gene ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 100 Mon Aug 23, 1993 D.ENGEL [Thunderbird] at 05:56 EDT G.MON: Better than that, my game is a plain-old run-of-the-mill .TOS application which you can double-click on and get it to run from the desktop. It will even switch a ST, STe, or TT030 into the proper resolution it requires and puts it back when you 'quit'. I'd like to be able to do it on a F030, but Bill Rehbock must be busy with the Jaguar and has not responded to his mail recently. The bootsector is not used in the actual production version (when that comes out), but I need to use it for testing purposes, hence no NoRoach. :-( Charlie: I certainly don't want to drive you away by belaboring a point, but it seems I have to sometimes because I often find posts directed to me which often ignore vert legitimate points I have made in previous posts. I really don't keep track of who reads what most of the time, so I am under obligation to give the person the benefit of the doubt, and re-iterate what I have said for them. I think Aladdin-Lag has a lot to do with it, too. _____________________ \hunderbird ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 101 Mon Aug 23, 1993 ICDINC at 10:01 EDT MArk Stefani, We have a new package called ICD SCSI Pro Utilities. It fully supports the Falcon IDE and SCSI ports. It also includes new utilities that you probably have not seen. There is a press release on it in the ICD RT (m1220;1). THanks for your support. - TOM - ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 102 Mon Aug 23, 1993 J.NESS [Jim] at 10:41 EDT RoadKill - I need to research this better myself, but I don't think it's only rules breakers who have trouble on the Falcon. From what I know, using the Falcon modem port is like using the second modem port on a MSTe or TT. It's a whole new device, which has to be specifically called on by the software. Programmers who made provision for port #2 on the MSTe and TT will find their programs working on the Falcon, for the most part. There is one call that's messed up in TOS, which is supposed to tell the programmer which port is present. Since it does not work right, programmers have come up with substitute methods. As I said, I need to research this better, because I have a program which needs to know. -JN ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 103 Mon Aug 23, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 18:04 EDT RoadKill, I disagree with your comment that 99% of the programmers broke the rules for modem programming. Most of the programs will work, it's just the part where the programmer HAS to go to hardware to get what they need that broke. There are a few that broke because the programmer made his own port handler. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 104 Mon Aug 23, 1993 SAM-RAPP [<>] at 21:38 EDT 68882? Yep. =============> Sam ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 105 Tue Aug 24, 1993 C.CASSADAY [Chris C.] at 00:05 EDT Anyone, What speed should the 68882 be if one wanted to put one in a Falcon030? My friend wants to install one in his Falcon, but is concerned about what may happen if he later installs one of the CPU upgrades that is supposed to be coming out. So, a 16 mhz 882 or a 32 mhz 882? Chris ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 106 Tue Aug 24, 1993 S.FARWIG [STAN] at 01:18 EDT David Fairweather: Just to let you know I succeeded in loading UNISPEC into the Falcon... sort of. Used a ST emulator called BACKWARD.APP that sets certain parameters back to the ST. It's mainly for games and not much use to me, but I thought let's give it a whirl. Set the parameters without much idea of what I was doing, went to ST low, loaded UNISPEC.ACC with MultiDesk and had my heart skip a beat when the UNISPEC extra memory dialogue showed up. A few seconds later there was the SPECTRUM interface, all in black and white, no trace of color and without a cursor. Still, it was something of a thrill to see it there and have a snippet of hope that a patch will show up to restore color. my best Stan ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 107 Tue Aug 24, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 04:57 EDT Chris, I talked to Jim Allen about it a while back. It's suppose to run fine at 16Mhz but I don't have a chip yet to try it. He said he thought it was possible to cut a couple traces and change one oscillator to make the 68882 run at 32mhz in the current 16mhz machine. I'm not trying that until my warranty runs out though.:-) Remember, if you do anything to the machine yourself it voids your warranty. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 108 Tue Aug 24, 1993 TOWNS [John] at 13:14 EDT Let's not degenerate this topic into a slam AtariFest just because John doesn't have an Atari computer anymore. In fact, certain employees of Atari asked me if I was interested in writing programming articles for them when I left (if they gave me a machine..) and I certainly would consider that. The Atari Falcon030 is a great machine. If I had the money, I would buy one. I proudly display the Falcon030 brochure on my office door at work. I am proud of the machine and Atari owners should be too! Another point: Aladdin ST doesn't work on the Falcon030 because the serial port routines for the SCC chip aren't in Aladdin ST. I don't really consider that breaking the rules. Sure, you could argue that he should just go through TOS for Serial Port I/O, but he needed more speed than the system could provide to him. Therefore, he went to the hardware (BTW... The Hardware is documented..) and he wrote his stuff before support for the SCC chip was available. Oh well. I am confident that once Tim gets the information he needs he will have an Aladdin version that supports the Falcon030 as well as the extra serial ports on the TT! So, give the guy a break and give him a shot to fix it. Anyway, enough of my ramblings.. -- John ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 110 Wed Aug 25, 1993 STEVE-J [Steve @ NLS] at 03:16 EDT C.CASSADAY - Whichever's cheaper! He only needs a 16MHz 68882, but a 32MHz one wouldn't hurt (if somehow you found one cheaper than a 16MHz one). ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 111 Wed Aug 25, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 05:42 EDT Steve, Cheapers not always better.:-) A couple extra bucks might pay off a couple months down the road. You can always pop it out and add it to a faster machine, alter it to run at 32Mhz on the Falcon or the Falcon might even get a 32Mhz accelerator built for it eventually. Of coarse it might not but I'd still think you'd be better off with 32Mhz later on. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 112 Wed Aug 25, 1993 B.STOREY [Billy B.] at 07:14 EDT Stan where can I get BACKWARD.APP? If it isn't in the library, can you upload it? Billy B. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 113 Wed Aug 25, 1993 C.OINES1 [Chazz] at 07:25 EDT I've got mine back finally (yay!), and with the mathco in, the rendering speed in Phoenix seems to have gone way up. Pictures I'd have to wait an hour or more to see come out in what I swagged to be about 1/3 of the time. It's great! I don't even wince when turning on Phong w/Shadows anymore... ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 114 Wed Aug 25, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:37 EDT So, John, are you going to get a TT again and so those articles? They'd be great. BTW, we're all fortunate to have your input here. Wouldn't it be nice of Bob Brodie if he mailed you a Falcon030? Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 115 Thu Aug 26, 1993 B.DEWITT [NerdPerfect] at 22:50 EDT James K; Here's some GEMbench numbers based on the '882 co-processor installed in the Falcon. I can't vouch for the accuracy of these, and unfortunately, I don't have comparable numbers for an unco-processed Falcon, so they may not be very meaningful. But anyway, here goes: basically GEMbench tests various functions of the Falcon and then generates percentages of how the Falcon performs in those areas as compared to the standard performance of the other computers in Atari's lineup. COMPARED TO THE TT030 Gem Dialog: 79% VDI text: 119% VDI text effects: 104% VDI small text: 100% VDI graphics: 65% GEM Window: 67% Integer division: 66% Floating math: 71% RAM access: 84% ROM access: 121% VDI scroll: 180% VDI enquire: 75% Blitter: 190% Math/memory: 85% Graphics: 108% Overall performance compared to a TT: 101% COMPARED TO THE ST Math/memory: 380% Graphics: 408% Overall performance: 399% COMPARED TO THE STE Math/memory: 380% Graphics: 406% Overall performance: 398% COMPARED TO THE MEGA STE Math/memory: 213% Graphics: 220% Overall performance: 223% In everyday terms, since installing the math co-processor, I haven't noticed any significant speed increases in the majority of applications I use (e.g. Calamus S, AtariWorks, TruePaint). But that is undoubtedly because those programs have not been optimized to utilize the co-processor. As I indicated before, Phoenix's performance is substantially improved because it has been written to use the co-processor. So, there you have it, from my experience..... Bob deWitt ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 116 Thu Aug 26, 1993 L.CHANDLER [Linda] at 23:10 EDT Al Fasoldt That Littlenet prg is great. Thanks. It does however require SerialPatch2 installed to work on the MegaST. At least on mine. Do you perchance know why it WON'T work with XBOOT? ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 117 Thu Aug 26, 1993 C.ROUNTREE2 [RoadKill] at 23:33 EDT Gene: Once again Atari fouls up! It should have been a Lawyer scrambling beam! Wayne: I've toyed with the modem port and it get satisfactory speeds you need to go to hardware. You could use system calls for it, but not above 2400 and keep good speed (or a safe buffer!). ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 118 Thu Aug 26, 1993 B.DEWITT [NerdPerfect] at 23:45 EDT Oops....As usual, my formatting ain't too readable. My earlier message should read this way (assuming I get the formatting right this time:) COMPARED TO THE TT030 Gem Dialog: 79% VDI text: 119% VDI text effects: 104% VDI small text: 100% VDI graphics: 65% GEM Window: 67% Integer division: 66% Floating math: 71% RAM access: 84% ROM access: 121% VDI scroll: 180% VDI enquire: 75% Blitter: 190% Math/memory: 85% Graphics: 108% Overall performance compared to a TT: 101% COMPARED TO THE ST Math/memory: 380% Graphics: 408% Overall performance: 399% COMPARED TO THE STE Math/memory: 380% Graphics: 406% Overall performance: 398% COMPARED TO THE MEGA STE Math/memory: 213% Graphics: 220% Overall performance: 223% I hope that turned out right..... Bob deWitt ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 119 Fri Aug 27, 1993 L.CHANDLER [Linda] at 03:24 EDT All. Here's a strange one. I saved the Falcon desktop in Medium resolution and now it will not switch to Low Res. No matter what I do with the settings under set video. Any ideas? Generally speaking the Falcon is fun, but this resolution business is driving me nuts. Thanks. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 120 Fri Aug 27, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:59 EDT I just joined this topic and will vote for "more civil", also. I don't care to download that stuff. How about going to GEmail, guys, if you have to carry on that kind of conversation? Keno, I'm using CALLTIME3 (and put it in the library). I like the way it works on my MegaSTE, but don't have a Falcon, yet, so can't give you any help. Let me know if you get it to work. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 121 Fri Aug 27, 1993 TOWNS [John] at 11:47 EDT The main reason that I haven't done any writing for Atari or anyone else is time. I just don't have enough of it. As some of you know, I am married now (for just over 6 months!) and with my new job, I am busy beyond belief. Maybe someday.. I am also interested in doing some work for Jaugar, but I don't know what is possible at this point. -- John ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 122 Sat Aug 28, 1993 J.KRACHT [James Kracht] at 00:18 EDT Linda: You're turning the line-doubling OFF, right? From Set Video? Bob: Thanks for the numbers. What I _really_ want you to do is run a raytrace with Persistence of Vision. That's why I want a mathco. :-) James ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 123 Sat Aug 28, 1993 B.SUSLOVIC [Brad] at 00:57 EDT To anyone who didn't understand my last post, hope this helps. I called a major HD manufacturer, the tech said that this is not is the SCSI 2 spec. A simple fix would be to remove pin 21 from your ribbon cable. Standard SCSI PINs 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 +5volts from Falcon PIN 11->21 22 23 24 25 26 g 27 28 s r 29 30 i o 31 32 g u 33 34 n n 35 36 a d 37 38 l 39 40 s 41 42 s i 43 44 i d 45 46 d e 47 48 e 49 50 B.Suslovic ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 124 Sat Aug 28, 1993 S.DANUSER [Soul Manager] at 01:40 EDT Towns - So, when will I be running Taligent, anyway? I'm talking about on that new PowerPC-based Falcon, of course. ;/ Soul Manager ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 125 Sat Aug 28, 1993 V.VALENTI at 03:18 EDT Can anyone give me any info about compatible sound. Does anybody know if the Yamaha sound chip works out of the box with old ST software and do you have to do anything special to play STE DMA sound on the Falcon at 6.25Mhz. Thanx Vince ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 126 Sat Aug 28, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EDT Linda, I didn't know that LittleNet won't work with XBoot. That's odd. I'll see if I can find out what the problem is. XBoot shouldn't be affecting anything. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 127 Sat Aug 28, 1993 L.CHANDLER [Linda] at 04:36 EDT Al Fasoldt I'm using Littlenet to transfer my files from my Mege-STe to my new Falcon. Nice machine. Just love it. Problem is I changed the set Video to ST- Med and then saved the config. Now I can't get it to switch back to ST-Low. I'm using my SC-1224 on the Falcon. No interlace. I reloaded the Lang Disk Inf. file and tried again. No luck. Anyway. Before all that. I had a problem on the Mega-STe with LittleNet. With XBoot in place, then saving the N icon, the Inf file doesnt save properly. Rebooting brings up the previous save. save. Also. From the Mega-STe, drive N often returns "No drive found" on the Falcon. This happens intermitantly. Thanks for your help. LittleNet is a great program. Saves a lot of time swapping discs. Linda. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 128 Sat Aug 28, 1993 L.CHANDLER [Linda] at 04:46 EDT Here's another interesting point about LittleNet. On my Mege-STe SerialPatch2 has to be installed for it to work. Why is that? I noticed this while eliminating various Acc. and Auto stuff to see if I could find the intermittant access problem. I don't know much about MIDI, I just happened to have a pair of cables laying around from a previous incarnation. Speed is fine though. I can run Atari Works on both machines and transfer files back and fourth. Similar to your using two copies of STalker and a null cable on the same machine. Great idea for boring afternoons. Bye. Linda. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 129 Sat Aug 28, 1993 B.STOREY [Billy B.] at 07:06 EDT Linda, since you are posting in the Falcon 030 topic, I guess you are using a Falcon. I have STe and ST, and run Xboot and Littlenet between them with no problems. Billy B. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 131 Sat Aug 28, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 10:25 EDT Speaking of line doubling . . . what exactly is it for? When should you use it and when shouldn't you use it? ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 132 Sat Aug 28, 1993 P-DIRECT [Sean@TWP] at 12:30 EDT David: Line doubling is used on VGA monitors to get lower resolution by making every 2 "480" lines one "240" line. I guess I should say this only affects vertical resolution. It's primary use for me is to get 320x240 (40 columns, double line), but I tend to use the higher screen resolutions so Calamus SL can work, and they also just plain look better (which I believe is now concidered a crime by some people, so I'll shut up about this). For an interesting aspect ratio, set to 40 columns and turn double line off (or interlace on, for SC/TV users). Sean Dougherty Two Worlds Publishing ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 133 Sat Aug 28, 1993 DMJ [dmj] at 14:30 EDT Fairweather: Line doubling is used on the Falcon with VGA monitors to simulate 240-line vertical resolutions. It doubles each line, so you only need half of 480 lines normally required to make a full screen--so your effective resolution is half. If you don't use a VGA monitor, you don't use line doubling. -dmj ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 134 Sat Aug 28, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 17:24 EDT Linda, I've noticed that some DAs and auto-folder prgs steal the vector that LittleNet uses (a vector is a way that something running on the computer gets access to the processor). Warp 9 and LittleNet have trouble getting along -- although, interestingly enough, when Geneva is running, W9 and LN get along just fine. Over the long term, if you eventually switch to Geneva you may find the incompatibilities go away. In the meanwhile, you might consider using another boot manager temporarily. I realize XBoot is Xcellent, but SuperBoot does not have a problem with LittleNet. And my brother uses LN to link an MSTe and an ST without a hitch, so we know the MSTe is not causing the difficulty. Also, check your newdesk.inf file to make sure drive N is indeed installed. You can read it in any text editor; STeno is ideal. I don't know why the sertial patch is needed in your installation, but whatever works, wors! Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 135 Sun Aug 29, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 00:38 EDT Al, maybe your should send a copy of the Codeheads "11 comandments" to the author or LittleNet. Mike ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 136 Sun Aug 29, 1993 R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH] at 02:38 EDT Speaking of LitteNET, is the author still working on it. I am using it for a MegaST to Falcon connection (just to stay on topic here) and I have found a couple of problems. I works fine to copy files from the Mega after initial boot-up, but if I try to change video modes, the Falcon crashes. It also will not transfer files from the Falcon - I think because I have >16 Meg partitions. Other than this it works well, and since I mainly copy stuff from 130 Meg drive on the Mega to the 84 Meg drive in the Falcon, it is still quite usefull. The only other thing I would like to see is the ability to save the drive selection inside the LittleNET ACC. If anyone knows how to contact the author, please pass this on. RandyH ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 137 Sun Aug 29, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 16:53 EDT Randy, I have no idea if the author is working on a new version of LittleNet. If I find out, I'll holler. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 138 Sun Aug 29, 1993 PMC.INC at 17:11 EDT Bob (NerdPerfect), have you tried the Atari software on a normal (TOS 1.4 or higher) ST to see if the PMC Floptical works on it? If it does, then like the other person said, I'd look at the cable. Otherwise, if it doesn't look into the Atari software and why it doesn't. oscar @ pmc ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 139 Sun Aug 29, 1993 TOWNS [John] at 18:06 EDT When will you be running Taligent? I could tell you and then I would have to kill you! Actually, sorry guy.. but I can't talk about Taligent stuff. I wish I could, but I can't. PowerPC based Falcon? That would be really interesting! The PowePC looks like a really cool chip. It wouldn't hurt the Falcon one bit to have one. Then again.. It wouldn't hurt most computers judging by the little bit of info that I have seen on the chip! ;-) As for what computers I am using.. Well, I use a Quadra 800 at work and I have a PowerBook Duo 210 that I own and use at home, school, work, the car, and just about anywhere else I can put it on my lap! But, this is the Falcon topic and I am _way_ off topic! Here, I will put us back on topic: The Falcon030 has a really cool sound system and true color video.. something that you can't get on the other computers for even close to the same price! How's that? -- John PS. *whew*.. I could see the Topic Police in my rear-view mirror! I was lucky this time! ;-) ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 140 Sun Aug 29, 1993 B.SUSLOVIC [Brad] at 21:00 EDT JOhn, Yeah, the falcon is a great machine, even with its Killer SCSI port. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 141 Sun Aug 29, 1993 S.FARWIG [STAN] at 23:12 EDT Billy B. I got BACKWARD.APP from my dealer, who got it from a customer who got it from...? It evidently originated in France and, since it is identified as Freeware (although the next version will be shareware) I just uploaded it to GEnie. my best Stan ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 142 Mon Aug 30, 1993 B.DEWITT [NerdPerfect] at 00:31 EDT Wilfred; RE: flopticals and the Atari HDX. You were curious about the model of floptical I am using. It is an Insite I325 VM. The docs that accompany the Atari HDX software mention that they work with the Insite I235 VM. I don't know if that's a typo or whether there really are two different Insite models with such similar numbers. Anyway, the Insite I325 VM works very nicely with the ICD Pro software. It would be nice if the Atari software did, too. (Sorry it took me so long to respond.) Regards, Bob deWitt ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 143 Mon Aug 30, 1993 C.ROUNTREE2 [RoadKill] at 02:07 EDT John: ACH! No offense meant! I was poking fun at you, I had no intention of starting a flame war. The fact that you still commute here on Genie, shows that you're still interested in we the computational minorities. I just hope Atari can make the Jaguar fly so they can make a Falcon with a jag built in. THAT would make the Falcon soar! (Chuckle) RoadKill-- P.S: PLEASE write some programming articles on your spare time! Diamonds have less value to me! ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 144 Mon Aug 30, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:52 EDT John, Life is tough, eh? Care to let me borrow that Quadra for a few years? I promise not to do unkind things to it. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 145 Mon Aug 30, 1993 PMC.INC at 22:03 EDT Bob, There's only one version of the Floptical, it must be a typo... - oscar @ pmc ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 146 Tue Aug 31, 1993 L.CHANDLER [Linda] at 00:37 EDT I notice there is no shipping program with the Falcon030. Any reason? Anyone? Linda. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 147 Tue Aug 31, 1993 V.VALENTI at 00:43 EDT Linda Most new hard drives have a self parking feature built in. Usually, the head actually move away from the disk when the power is dropped. This may be the reason why they do not come with a shipping program like before. Vince ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 148 Tue Aug 31, 1993 B.STOREY [Billy B.] at 08:03 EDT Stan, I thank you for uploading BACKWARD.APP! Billy B. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 149 Tue Aug 31, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 09:53 EDT Wasn't Backward already available here on GEnie. I'm sure I've downloaded it before. Is there a newer version now? ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 150 Tue Aug 31, 1993 TOWNS [John] at 12:41 EDT hehe.. I think Taligent might have a problem with you taking this Quadra.. What would I use to get my work done? RoadKill.. No problem. I was offended, I just didn't want to turn this topic into a slam Atari topic. And I will definitely consider your suggestion to write programming articles! -- John ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 151 Wed Sep 01, 1993 B.DEWITT [NerdPerfect] at 00:10 EDT James K; I did as you asked and ran POV on my math-co'ed Falcon. Sad to say, it appears that POV was not written to recognize the presence of the '882. I rendered a simple wood-textured ball sitting on a flat plane and it took 57 minutes; the same time as it took before I had the '882 installed. By contrast, my T25- boosted Mega4 rendered the same image in 36 minutes. On the other hand, as I indicated earlier, Lexicor's Phoenix rendered an image 30% or so faster with the math coprocessor installed than without it (because Phoenix was written to take advantage of the chip....), and the soon-to-be released Phoenix II is reputed to be much faster. Bob deWitt ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 154 Wed Sep 01, 1993 K.OLSON10 [KenO.] at 18:35 EDT Hi! I have a Falcon with 4meg and 80 HD and a supra 2400 modem and FalconSpeed installed with windows. This is all great and most of the ST and DOS stuff I have works. My problem is I can't get the set up to run any PC communication programs. I have tried PCtalk4, PC Alad, and a airlines crew system access system called CompuMode-PC (CompuServe gateway). With CompuMode-PC when you do the setup the system locks at the initializing screen. PcTalk & PC Alad lock up period. My dealer checked the com port with a little gizmo and DOS seems to read com1 OK. FalconSpeed is running with DOS 5 and everything I have tried works fine (windows included) except communications stuff. Is the serial port on the Falcon somehow different from the "normal" serial port found on PCs? 90% of why I bought Falcon and then added speed was to do airline crew scheduling at home rather that drive 40 miles to the airport everytime or go through an intermediary over the voice line. I can get on line (GEnie & CompuServe) with TOS using Interlink or vanterm but can't seem to get to the airline mainframe although I haven't really explored this possibility to any great extent. KenO. :) ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 155 Wed Sep 01, 1993 C.OINES1 [Chazz] at 19:34 EDT Will Falconspeed run command-line text-only utilities? If it ran Image Alchemy (minus the display features), it'd be more than worth getting just to run that. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 156 Wed Sep 01, 1993 J.KRACHT [James Kracht] at 23:47 EDT Bob: I've got an FPU-award POV. Got it off Delphi a few days back. I thought _everyone_ had that version. If I can find a spare hour, I'll upload it to GEnie. James ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 157 Thu Sep 02, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 00:02 EDT Bob DeWitt - you might want to try MNDL_ALL.ZIP available here on GEnie to test your Falcon's math-coprocessor. As I recall, the archive comes with two different versions of the Mandelbrot generator, and one of them is written to take advantage of the co-processor. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 159 Fri Sep 03, 1993 R.GRABLE [Richie] at 00:07 EDT I recently purchased a Falcon and was shocked at the slow print speeds using AW. My Canon BJ-300 spends most of its time waiting. This is the same problem as with the ST but was cured with Fprint (does not work on the Falcon). Also, how do I redirect the sound to external speakers? The manual makes mention of it but the CPX doesn't have and control over where the sound goes. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 160 Fri Sep 03, 1993 S.DANUSER [Soul Manager] at 03:18 EDT KenO - Just a hunch, since I don't have a Falcon or FalconSpeed, but you might want to check how the com ports are configured in Windows. Sometimes Windows likes a mouse to be connected to Com1, and your modem to be connected to Com2. You can change this easily, just check the Port settings in the Control Panel. Really, though, this shouldn't cause a lockup, it should just make things not work quite right. But with an emulation setup, you can never tell the weird things that can happen. Soul Manager ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 161 Fri Sep 03, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 14:25 EDT Richie, While I don't have a Falcon, I do have AW and a BJ-300. I found that by using the CodeHead RamDisk as a printer buffer, my BJ stayed busy most of the time. The BJ uses LOTS of data in the 360x360 mode. A single page can be around 750k! Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~SysOp ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 162 Fri Sep 03, 1993 P-DIRECT [Sean@TWP] at 19:07 EDT Richie: There isn't a "redirection" switch for sound to the headphone port on the Falcon030 (at least one apparent to the user). You simply need to connect the device expecting the signal to the headphone jack on the back and have a device capable of using the signal it receives (you should turn off the internal speaker using the Control Panel, the switch is in the General Setup CPX). Try using headphones and then pressing keys, if you aren't hearing anything the volume might be turned down, your headphones might not be working, and at the worst your Falcon might have a problem. Sean Dougherty Two Worlds Publishing (the reference to "volume...turned down" is refering to either the headphone or the Falcon's volume setting, depending on how fancy your headphones are ) ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 163 Sat Sep 04, 1993 R.GRABLE [Richie] at 18:59 EDT I called my dealer and he solved the 'problem'. Trouble was I was trying to figure it out using the owners manual which is incorrect. Your method is the correct way and now I have great stereo EXTERNAL sound and the internal squawk box is off. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 164 Sun Sep 05, 1993 B.DEWITT [NerdPerfect] at 00:36 EDT James; I don't know what an 'FPU-award' is, but if it means POV will take adavantage of the '882, then I'm all for it. I got my POV from ST FORMAT, or whatever. Since I'm not on Delphi, I'd love to get your version if you could upload it here. I'll be glad to run another test for you.... David; Thanks for the info on MNDL_ALL. I'll look it up and give it a try. Bob ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 165 Sun Sep 05, 1993 J.KRACHT [James Kracht] at 03:21 EDT NerPerfect: (See, I made another mistake in your name). I think I meant FPU-awarE. The 'e' somehow turned into a 'w'? James ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 166 Sun Sep 05, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 16:22 EDT I have a Falcon ordered, and haven't decided on a monitor yet. I know about SC1224, and have seen VGA demoed with a Falcon, but what's SVGA? Ken ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 167 Sun Sep 05, 1993 P-DIRECT [Sean@TWP] at 16:59 EDT Ken: SVGA (SuperVGA) refers to the pseudostand the PC world uses. For cards it means anything greater than 640x480x16, for monitors it means they are capable of displaying greater than 640x480 (like 800x600) and also with greater quality. If you plan on getting ScreenBlaster or use any other sort of resolution enhancers for the Falcon030, SVGA is practically a must to take advantage of it's abilities. Sean Dougherty Two Worlds Publishing ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 168 Sun Sep 05, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 19:46 EDT I agree with SSean..... go for the best mnitor you can afford to buy (make that monitor> That way you can keep the fool thing not just with your Falcon, your 'Blasted' Falcon , but with almost ANY OTHER upgrade Compo and/or Atari comes up with over the next few years.... Gregg ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 169 Sun Sep 05, 1993 K.BURKENHEIM at 20:53 EDT Are there any plans by anyone to write a prg. to allow the Falcon to use Tru color on a SVGA monitor in _any_ resolution instead of Low Rez only? Also can the Falcon be made to think you are using a SC1224 instead of an svga or vga monitor?? /s ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 170 Mon Sep 06, 1993 R.THUROW [Rich] at 02:21 EDT Sean: The Atari SM147 is desribed as an SVGA monitor in its manual. Does this mean its capable of higher resolutions with the Falcon, perhaps with screenblaster? Thanks! Rich ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 171 Mon Sep 06, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 10:01 EDT Sean and Gregg, Thanks for the info. I'll look into it. I guess with the Falcon you don't need a card for SVGA, do you? Just the monitor? I notice in the Space & Science topic there are graphics that specify SVGA. I wonder if I would be able to use them, too, with some kind of reader. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 172 Mon Sep 06, 1993 P-DIRECT [Sean@TWP] at 10:34 EDT Rich: I think someone posted about getting 1024x768 using ScreenBlaster and the SM147 in the ScreenBlaster topic. If it is "SVGA", well, I'd have to go with the manual. It certainly doesn't support the colors, though. Ken: No card, just the monitor. Best part about the Falcon030 is almost everything is already inside. If they are GIF images, Targa, or nearly any other standard, they can be viewed even on the ST, with the proper viewer. GEM View supports tons of formats, and does a really good job on the Falcon030. It's rather large, and somewhat slow, however. K. Burkenheim: The problem with using True Color in 80 column VGA (or SVGA, the names mean mostly the same as far as the Falcon goes) is not the fact the software can't do it, but the hardware can't. 640x480 True Color would need a bus bandwidth greater than 35megs/sec when not interlaced, which the Falcon030 can't handle. The Falcon030 can be made to think a VGA type monitor is an SC type, but the VGA monitor has to support the frequencies the SC monitor uses (15KHz horizontal sync). You will end up with an interlaced 640x400 true color screen, just like the SC monitor. *DON'T* do this the other way around. Feeding VGA signals into an SC/SM monitor can result in very serious damage to your monitor. Sean Dougherty Two Worlds Publishing ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 173 Mon Sep 06, 1993 K.BURKENHEIM at 12:51 EDT Thanks, I guess I will have to continue swapping plugs. I wonder if an adaptor switch is in the works? ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 175 Mon Sep 06, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 14:16 EDT K.Burkenheim, I believe the Toads (TOAD-SERV.) have such a switch already. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~SysOp ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 176 Mon Sep 06, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 21:15 EDT Thanks, Sean. Sounds like when you figure what all the hardware add-ons to an ST would cost to give the capabilities of the Falcon, you've gotten a bargain in getting the Falcon. So is there a significant difference between a VGA monitor and an SVGA or the SM147? Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 177 Mon Sep 06, 1993 P-DIRECT [Sean@TWP] at 21:41 EDT Ken: The differences between SVGA and VGA are all in quality. Once you move to SVGA you get more choices including more brands, more sizes, digital controls, memory of screen size and position, and greater sync ranges. The price difference is surprisingly small for all the capablilties you get. One can now get an incredible 15" SVGA monitor with multisyncing capabilities, low radiation, and all the other bells and whistles for under $500. The SM147 is really different from SVGA monitors, in that it has no color capablilities, accepts only a narrow sync range, and doesn't have any sort of digital control of screen size or position. Sean Dougherty Two Worlds Publishing ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 179 Wed Sep 08, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:27 EDT Thanks Sean. The resolution on my monitor is improving. ;^) Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 180 Wed Sep 08, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:58 EDT I notice that the file 1200FALC.ASC in the library says the Falcon has analog RGB\VGA, while the 1200 has analog RGB\VGA\SVGA. It looks like they slighted the Falcon. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 181 Thu Sep 09, 1993 SAM-RAPP [<>] at 01:27 EDT Any one have any advice on How to decompress a file (.Z) I have compress.ttp v4.3 (12/26/88) but I can't seem to get it to work. Also any good recomendations for a UUencode and decode? And to stay on topic..... I plan on using these on a Falcon! And how come there are no MPEG players for Atari? Amiga has them, so why can't we? Whatever happend to that brainstorm MPEG/JPEG/DSP stuff that we heard so much about before the Falcon came out? Does Atari France have an online presence? ----------> Sam ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 182 Thu Sep 09, 1993 P-DIRECT2 [Tim @ TWP] at 20:10 EDT I need to know what value the Atari Falcon's BIOS initializes the Z85C30 (SCC)'s write register 1 with. WR1 is the "Transmit/Receive Interrupt and Data Transfer Mode Definition" register, and I need to know how it is set for the RS-232 port, which I believe is channel B. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 183 Sat Sep 11, 1993 R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH] at 23:00 EDT I have had my Falcon for nearly two months now and although I really like it and I am impressed with all its potential, there are two things keeping me from making the Falcon my main system (I still use the Mega more than the Falcon). They are: 1. Aladdin doesn't work on the Falcon 2. I can't use my SLM804 with the Falcon The first one I am well aware of what's going on from all the discussions here. The second I haven't heard any info on lately. Is anyone working on or planning to work on a device that will allow the SLM804 to work with the Falcon? Based on past performance, I think ICD would be the best ones to tackle this. I sent them mail to see if there was any possibility they would be doing something. Anyone else have any info on this subject? Thanks, Randy PS: I also understand there is a problem hooking up SCSI hard drives with an AdSCSI still attached. Is this true and is there anything that can be done about it? ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 184 Sun Sep 12, 1993 AEO.5 [Ed Krimen] at 01:30 EDT Sam, .Z files are Unix compressed files. With compress.ttp, use "-d file.Z". I think that's the syntax. For uuencode and decode, use ESSCODE from Michel Forget. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 185 Sun Sep 12, 1993 M.STEFANI [MCH] at 03:04 EDT Randy, I, like you, bought my Falcon about two months ago. I also depend on my SLM804 for my printing needs, and quite frankly am beginning to doubt that there will EVER be a way to merge the two of them. With apparently less than 1000 Falcons sold and no concerted 'push' from Atari, I'm beginning to wonder if there will EVER be any software developed for it! I mean, what incentive would a developer have? My Falcon sits idly in the corner of my studio, while my 'souped-up' 1040ST occupies 99% of my computer time. After a month of staring at TruePaint graphics and realizing that AtariWorks seems kind of neat but I can't PRINT anything, the novelty is wearing thin! After the long, long, LONG wait for the Falcon, all anyone wants to talk about is a 'game' computer. I'm not much of a computer game buff, but we should be so lucky as to have ANY games for the Falcon! Maybe the only solution is to buy another laser printer, or invest in Falcon Speed to gain access to a decent software base. Or maybe, heaven forbid, I should have just invested in a 'clone' instead. 'Potential' only goes so far... Anyway, I appreciated your post and certainly sympathize with your situation. LONG LIVE THE ST! Mark Stefani ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 186 Sun Sep 12, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 13:25 EDT Randy, Atari says they're working someone to get the SLM problem fixed. I doubt that many people know about the Falcon other than current Atari owners, so that limits the market. They won't sell many without a market, and there will be little incentive to do something about the SLM situation, since the number of Falcon owners with SLMs is indeed small. I'm getting a Falcon in a week or two, but will keep it at work to replace a 2.5 meg 520ST with only a floppy drive and will also use it as a "portable" ST when I go to Florida for two weeks or something like that. I'll keep my Mega STE hooked up to the SLM at home, and can use Sneaker LAN between the two. All, I've decided to go with SVGA. Does anyone have a Best Buy monitor to recommend? Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 187 Sun Sep 12, 1993 P-DIRECT [Sean@TWP] at 13:52 EDT Ken: The absolute best monitor I've seen (for the price) is the AcerView 56L, 15" SVGA monitor with all the features, deguassing, digital positioning controls, non-reflective almost flat screen, low radiation, and an incredible display. I don't have a recent price on it, but I paid around $500 (I think). Sean Dougherty Two Worlds Publishing ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 188 Sun Sep 12, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou] at 14:08 EDT Ken, I really like the AAMAZING 1428. It should be less than 300.00 US. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 189 Sun Sep 12, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 18:52 EDT I like the ADI MicroScan 4, at about $430. 15-inch flat screen. It's used by Dell for their OEM top-of-the-line monitors. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 190 Sun Sep 12, 1993 R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{] at 21:38 EDT Randy - The Falcon will ignore a hard drive with adSCSI but that is not such a problem. First off, your adSCSI is probably connected with a DMA port which the Falcon can't use anyway, you need a SCSI II connector, so you can manually unplug your adSCSI board and use the drive with the falcon, or if you want to switch back and forth between different computers you can just stick a little toggle switch on the adSCSI power and turn your adSCSI board on and off depending on whether you are plugged into a Falcon SCSI II cable or are going DMA to a ST. Try it, it works! =-= Grouch (:{ =-= Mark - I too have a Falcon that is not as productive as it could be. I use the old ST for Aladdin and connecting to GEnie. Flash II is soon to be Falcon compatable and I am sure GEnie won't be left behind. Now that Compuserve is going 14.4 GEnie may even speed up a little. Lots of good things are coming down the pike for the Falcon. Just think of your self as a pioneer. There are strugles and privations, sure. But you are one of the first. That should be worth something. I have hope, and I'm just a =-= Grouch (:{ =-= ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 191 Mon Sep 13, 1993 M.STEFANI [MCH] at 00:23 EDT Grouch, I'm impressed with your optimism about good things becoming available for the Falcon. With so few Falcons sold and Atari's shift in focus to the Jaguar, I can't be the only skeptical 'pioneer' out there! Mark ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 192 Mon Sep 13, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Kheldar] at 00:32 EDT Ken Van, The Viewsonic 6FS is a 15" digital control montior. It is another good choice in the 15" range. For the falcon i would recommend something with digital control so you can size the different rez. and let the monitor remember your settings. Jim. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 193 Mon Sep 13, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:34 EDT Thanks Sean, Lou, Al, and Jim. Such a lot of help, and four different opinions! I'll check them out. I was a little worried my question might be considered off-topic, but I needed to know this to be able to use the Falcon I'm getting. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 194 Mon Sep 13, 1993 J.NESS [Jim] at 17:07 EDT Sean - The 56L is commonly around $469 at Best Buy stores. I've had my eye on one, but haven't figured out how to justify jumping from a 14" to 15", and spending that kind of cash. -JN ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 195 Mon Sep 13, 1993 R.NOAK at 21:57 EDT Jim, One of the problems is that most 14" and 15" monitors use the same tube and have the same size usable display. _Real_ hard to justify that. ;-( Randy @ Southlake, Inc. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 196 Mon Sep 13, 1993 R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH] at 22:34 EDT As you all probably guessed, the reply back from ICD indicates they have no plans for doing a SCSI to DMA converter. I too am beginning to have my doubts that one will ever be done. Is the SLM804 even being made anymore? Okay, the next best thing is to have the SLM804 hooked to the Mega and some kind of network connection between the Falcon and Mega. I have a MIDI connection doing this now (LittleNET), but it is a bit slow and it causes problems when switching video modes. I heard something was coming from TOAD. Anyone hear any details? This would work good too because I can leave the 130 Meg drive on the Mega with all the data and just put applications on the Falcon 84 Meg. Of course, it needs to be reasonably priced as well. Grouch - thanks for the tip on the adSCSI. I'll keep it in mind if I end up moving the drive back and forth. I know this kind of stuff gets depressing sometimes, but I've been using Ataris since 1980 and just can't see myself using anything else (hey, I HAVE to use IBMs and MACs at work, so I prefer to have choice when I get home). I guess it's the price we pay for sticking with the 'little' guys. Lastly, I have an AcerView 34T UltraVGA (14") and I think it is really nice. I haven't seen much else so I don't know how it compares with anything else. I also purchased it with the Falcon as a package deal, so I don't know what it costs. Boy!, wasn't that an informative bit of info. :-) RandyH ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 197 Mon Sep 13, 1993 K.BURKENHEIM at 23:37 EDT I am using a syquest 44 with a fixed hard drive(65meg) connected to an ICD host adaptor. I have installed a switch in the back of the case that turns off the ICD host adaptor. The hard drives are connected to BOTH my Falcon and my Mega 4. If the switch is up the Falcon recognizes it. If the switch is down, the Mega 4 recognizes it. That way I have both on the same hard drives (not counting the one in the Falcon) and they can _both_ run at the same time and even share files without a slow network. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 198 Tue Sep 14, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Kheldar] at 00:51 EDT Randy, The only REAL reason I recommended the 15" flat screen was the digital sizing. If the Falcon is anything like Windows the ability to store the proper horz. and vert. sizing for each resolution is a God send. Jim. ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 199 Tue Sep 14, 1993 AEO.1 [Albert Dayes] at 01:32 EDT RandyH, PowerNet allows one to network a Falcon/ST/STE/TTs together. Ron Robinson has a setup with a similar configuration. You can contact him at EXPLORER.1. -- Albert ------------ Category 14, Topic 41 Message 200 Tue Sep 14, 1993 ICDINC at 10:25 EDT K.Burkenheim, I am not sure I would recommend that setup to our customers but hey, if it works.... - TOM - ------------