************ Topic 33 Sun Aug 16, 1992 SM [The Mixer] at 17:28 EDT Sub: The Falcon, MIDI And Recording The Atari Falcon -- discussion of the MIDI and recoridng applications of the machine that appears to be Atari's final computer. 321 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 1 Sun Aug 16, 1992 SM [The Mixer] at 17:30 EDT Obviously, the details are going to be sketchy for a while, but with the logged capabilities of the machine, you know there's software for direct- to- hard disk recording in the works for this creature. While the Atari RT is always the best place for general chat about this machine, here;s where we can get into the musical and MIDI side of it. >>>>>>Steve ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 2 Mon Aug 17, 1992 P.MODOS [YIKES!] at 01:46 EDT Yeah, software support. That seems to be Atari's weakness so far. For one I'm anxious. I'm tired of Macthis, and IBM everything else. YIKES! out. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 3 Mon Aug 17, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 03:04 EDT Here's the latest specification data for the Falcon 030 that *HAS* been mentioned by Atari (more technical info is on the way within the next week or so): Atari Falcon 030 Specifications ------------------------------- CPU: Motorola 68030 32-bit microprocessor @ 16MHz w/ 32-bit bus FPU: Motorola 68881/68882 @ 16MHz (optional) DSP: Motorola 56001 Digital Signal Processor running in parallel @ 32MHz w/ 32kWords (24-bit) of local zero wait state static RAM ROM: 512kB RAM: 1, 4 or 16MB(14MB usable) on daughterboard (RAM is 32-bit wide) Expansion bus: Internal 'Processor-Direct' slot for 386SX emulation (third party 386SX emulator nearly completed) or other co-processors/etc. Video: 16-bit BLiTTER @ 16MHz (also handles hard drive access) True Color 320x200 mode (no palette) 16-bit (65,536 color) mode for 320x480 non-interlaced and up to 640x480 interlaced Standard 1/2/4/8-bit (2/4/16/256 color) non-interlaced resolutions from 320x200 to 640x480 from an 18-bit palette (262,144 colors) Supports standard STe modes w/ a 4096 color palette Accepts external video sync to allow high quality genlocking Overlay mode for easy video titling and special effects Overscan support Hardware-assisted horizontal fine scrolling VIDEL (video controller) sits on 32-bit bus Audio: Stereo 16-bit Analog-to-Digital DMA input Stereo 16-bit Digital-to-Analog DMA output Eight 16-bit audio DMA record/playback channels SDMA sound/DMA co-processor Ports: 128kB cartridge port 2 9-pin mouse/joystick ports 2 15-pin STe enhanced analog/digital controller ports (Atari also has new analog controllers w/ a joystick, 3 fire buttons, and a 12-key keypad) MIDI IN, OUT/THRU Bi-directional parallel port RS232C serial port SCSI II w/ DMA Analog RGB/VGA/composite video connector Stereo headphone out (1/8" mini-jack) Stereo microphone in (1/8" mini-jack) DSP port (up to 1MHz data transfer rate) RF modulator for TV hookup Localtalk compatible LAN (up to 250kbaud transfer rate) Misc: Internal 1.44MB 3.5" HD floppy Internal IDE 2.5" hard drive (optional) Pre-emptive mulitasking OS (MultiTOS) w/ adaptive prioritization and inter-process communication (also 68040 compatible) Realtime clock and battery backed up RAM 1040ST-style case w/ internal fan North American availability in mid-October ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 4 Tue Aug 18, 1992 P.MODOS [YIKES!] at 05:13 EDT A 1040ST case? That means that the keyboard is going to be attached to the CPU? Not such a great idea if your keyboard has a wrecked key or something. YIKES! out. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 5 Tue Aug 18, 1992 J.LARSON11 at 23:41 EDT Has anybody any prices bandied about? It sounds like it might be "Power... for a price...." I know the cost of my MEGA STe was pretty much in line with a comparable PC Compat at 386 33 mhz with a bigger HD than I have. Plus, how "backward compatible" will it be with other software that I use out- side of my musical pursuits? (Just being a Devil's Advocate....) JL ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 6 Wed Aug 19, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 01:15 EDT P.MODOS - Yes, Atari rushed out the 'economy' model (or at least the 68030 'economy' model) Falcon first, so people are stuck with only the choice of a 1040-style case until desktop models and tower models (both faster 030's and 040's) are available next year. (I said "68030 'economy' model" earlier because they may have a new 68000-based model next year to replace the $300 STE's). J.LARSON11 - No 'official' prices until next weekend, but the price for a 1MB/no hard drive Falcon 030 is rumored to be around $700-$750 list. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 7 Wed Aug 19, 1992 B.STOREY [Billy B.] at 07:34 EDT Yikes, keyboards are VERY easy, and not very expensive to replace. The advantage is extreme portability. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 8 Thu Aug 20, 1992 SM [The Mixer] at 18:32 EDT The keyboard in the 1040 is an easy replacement, too, and pretty cheap. The Falcon is getting Newsbytes attention, so there's a definite push going on here. >>>>>>Steve ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 9 Fri Aug 21, 1992 J.FRENCH2 at 01:22 EDT There is one major thing that concerns me about the Falcon: Are the D/A and A/D convertors cheap, or professional quality? As well are the audio inputs and outputs high quality or cheap. Falcon might be power without the price but if this means using cheap components for audio stuff then it may not be worth doing direct-to-disk recording with it, save for applications where high- quality sound is not a priority (i.e. games, hacking, demos). If Falcon can provide studio-quality digital audio then it might be something to get excited about. If it can't then its just an expensive toy as far as I'm concerned. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 10 Fri Aug 21, 1992 P.STONE [Xorcist] at 01:54 EDT Hell, I'll volunteer to Beta test the hell out of the digital hard drive recording/editing/mastering. I'd be happy to compare it to my Mac Sound Tools system. (oohhh pick me pick me pick me!) orcist ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 11 Fri Aug 21, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 03:05 EDT SM - If only there were a *DECENT* replacement for the 1040 keyboard! Whattaya mean by "getting Newsbytes attention"? And *WHAT* definite push are you speaking of? I've seen the Falcon mentioned in Atari magazines (of course) and in NeXTWorld magazine, but other than that, I don't see any "Newsbytes attention" anywhere, unless you're talking about its being mentioned in the opening GEnie Banner. J.FRENCH2 - That's something that concerns me as well. Are the new audio inputs/outputs as noisy as the STE/TT's 8-bit stereo outputs??? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 12 Fri Aug 21, 1992 K.HOUSER [M.Q. Def] at 07:46 EDT Even if they use cheapo CODECs in the Falcon, don't worry too much. They did have the foresight to provide digital I/O for the DSP stuff. That way, you can add your own 8 channels of high quality CODECs. So you can record 8 channels of digital audio simultaneously. With the Falcon as offered, only 2 ch can be recorded at one time. --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 13 Sat Aug 22, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 01:24 EDT K.HOUSER - Actually, with the DSP I/O port, you can have an external device to handle even *MORE* than 8 channels of 16-bit CD-quality sound since the port handles enough bandwidth for it. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 14 Sat Aug 22, 1992 J.FRENCH2 [James] at 02:30 EDT K.HOUSER, Steve, et al.--Thanks for your thoughts on the digital concerns. Here are some applications I wouldn't mind seeing on the Falcon. Anyone else have any others? -MIDI controlled sampler with digital effects, etc. (i.e. an alternative to a $3000 Ensoniq EPS-16) I could still use my 1040 for sequencing. -using some kind of writeable CD-ROM, a CD mastering system (would be great for producing demos) -digital multi-track recording with MIDI (obvious application) -porting of digital synthesis, digital signal processing programs, for example CSOUND, POD, FM, etc. -using the D/A capabilities as a CV controller for pre-MIDI synths It seems to me that given the hardware most of these applications would not be too hard to develop. (well, "too hard" is a relative term) ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 15 Sat Aug 22, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 06:40 EDT Well, some pricing has been announced for the Falcon 030. Here it comes! Falcon 030 w/ 1MB RAM and no hard drive - $799 list Falcon 030 w/ 4MB RAM and 65MB hard drive - $1399 list I'm not sure how much each of these will actually *SELL* for, but for reference, the 1040STE lists for $599 (actually, it may have been lowered to $499) and sells for as low as $375. So if you follow the $599 list/sell 'ratio' and apply the same percentage of discount to the Falcon prices, you get $500 and $876. Following the $499 list/sell 'ratio,' you get $600 and $1051. So basically, the Falcon 030 1/0 *MAY* sell for around $550-$600 and the 4/65 *MAY* sell for around $900-$1050. Don't hold me to those estimates, though, as this is *NOT* a very good way to estimate selling prices. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 16 Sat Aug 22, 1992 K.HOUSER [M.Q. Def] at 07:46 EDT Steve, BUT, there are only 8 DMA channels for Audio. Any extras will need some additional support (like either DSP or CPU time). James, I own an EPS16+ Turbo. I've been contacted by another company about writing and application for the Falcon to do something like what you want. We'll see if the details can be worked out & the job materializes. Given the right sequencing software, maybe you could run the sequencer as another task on the Falcon. I see the need for a MidiManager type of thingy at the system level already. Actually, the HARDEST part about the development is having the time to do it. And having the time to do it comes from having the money necessary to live comfortably so time can be devoted to the project. --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 17 Sat Aug 22, 1992 B.STOREY [Billy B.] at 09:54 EDT Steve, as you well know, after about 2 years, the initial prices tend to fall off drastically, and a computer that lists at $800 initially may be purchased for $400 a couple of years later. An added advantage of waiting is that if there are any serious bugs in the early models, they will be corrected by the time I get around to buying one. Remember, a 65 meg HD goes for 5-600 bucks, so the price of the 4 meg machine isn't much higher than a 1 meg, if you use an external drive. I look forward to that 14 meg upgrade! ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 18 Sat Aug 22, 1992 J.FRENCH2 [James] at 12:39 EDT Those prices sound good. Bugs and all, I have to get a Falcon as soon as they come out! Kevin, I HOPE you can find the time to develop something like this. I work at an Atari store in Edmonton that serves a large part of Western Canada. If reasonably priced I know I could sell a sampler program to every musician who buys a Falcon from me. As well, if a $1300 machine with a $200-$300 sampling program can blow away a $3000, or even $10000 "stand alone" sampler, then I could sell a lot of Falcons based on this program alone. If you can starve for however many months it takes to develop this program I think you will reap great financial benefits later. Please keep me up to date on what you are doing! James ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 19 Sat Aug 22, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 16:09 EDT J.FRENCH2 - I think some of those applications *WILL* show up; especially the sampler software and perhaps the digital synthesis software and digital multi- effects processing software. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 20 Sat Aug 22, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 16:15 EDT K.HOUSER - But it *IS* possible. All the internal hardware may only directly support 8 channels, but if sampling is all you're going to be doing with the machine at one time, you can use up all the DSP and CPU time you want to get even more. B.STOREY - If you use an external drive, yes. However, you can buy a 65MB 2.5" IDE drive to put into the Falcon 030 for as low as $250 (or even less!). ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 21 Sat Aug 22, 1992 P.STONE [Xorcist] at 18:03 EDT Somebody Kick Digidesign in the ass and tell them to port Sound Designer! And someone kick Passport too and get Alchemy ported over... oh... I better make some phone calls ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 22 Sat Aug 22, 1992 M.MURRAY18 [big mike] at 23:55 EDT Xorcist, Sound designer WAS ported over to the atari for the Mega machines, but then the company decided to focus in on the Mac and discontinued Atari products. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 23 Sun Aug 23, 1992 E.KRIMEN [Ed Krimen] at 00:22 EDT >A 1040ST case? That means that the keyboard is going to be attached >to the CPU? Not such a great idea if your keyboard has a wrecked key >or something. Replacing a 1040ST keyboard is very inexpensive. I got a replacement from my dealer for $45 a few years ago. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 24 Sun Aug 23, 1992 J.WHITNEY2 [JOHN] at 08:11 EDT Billy B., I'm with you man, I'll wait a couple of years too (mostly out of necessity and low budget though) and undoubtedly will want to keep my reliable 52 meg external HD. I just hope that the 1 meg Falcon will take these Simms chips (in my STe) for RAM upgrade and use my old reliable SC1224 monitor !?!?!? Later, John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 25 Sun Aug 23, 1992 J.FRENCH2 [James] at 13:56 EDT John, Judging from the specs from the RTC the Falcon will be upgradeable using only an ATARI board. I just hope there not as expensive as the TT ram upgrades! And yes, as far as I know you can use your existing colour monitor. Xorcist, What does Alchemy do? Judging from the name it sounds like one could do sound manipulation/creation. Why is it that the ATARI has better sequencing software and the MAC better digital sound software?! Oh well, this should change. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 26 Sun Aug 23, 1992 SM [The Mixer] at 15:02 EDT Steve Johnson -- nope, Newsbytes ran a surprisingly detailed report on the Falcon, including mentions of GEnie as a source for some information. We'll have to wait and see as usual, though. Like everyone else I'm getting an "Uh-huh, what else can you do?" attitude. >>>>>>Steve ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 27 Mon Aug 24, 1992 M.MURRAY18 [big mike] at 01:44 EDT I think a large part of the Mac's superiority in the digital sound dept. has to do with having expansion alots which the ST doesn't. Also the fact that Digidesign works on that platform and they are sort of the standard bearers and also because most professional studios use Macs instead of Ataris, largely because it was the coolest platform when everybody was adding computers to their studios for the first time in 1985. Somebody remind me to stop always speaking in one long sentence sometime. --Big mike ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 28 Mon Aug 24, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 03:04 EDT J.WHITNEY2 - The Falcon030 doesn't use SIMM's due to space limitations, but the nicer desktop models will be available next year sometime and they will most likely still use SIMM's since they have the space. Yes, you *CAN* use your SC1224 (or SC1435) with the Falcon and be able to get up to 640x400x65,536 interlaced on it. SM - What's (or where's) "Newsbytes"? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 29 Mon Aug 24, 1992 B.STOREY [Billy B.] at 07:54 EDT John, I too, am hoping to be able to unplug the STe and plug in the Bird, but I am hearing comments about a proprietary ram board.... Could mean it won't take the present SIMMS. Also, I doubt we will be able to use present HD's. I think the way to go is: buy ICD's LINK cart & a SCSI drive, and then be able to plug into the Falcon when it arrives. The new higher res picture also sounds as tho' a new monitor will also be needed. All of which sounds like starting over, with newer technology, about like moving from the 8-bit to the ST. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 30 Mon Aug 24, 1992 K.HOUSER [M.Q. Def] at 18:34 EDT Just lose the host adaptor & plug your SCSI drive into the SCSI2 port with the appropriate cable guys. The RAM board has NO logic on it and should be easy to make for 3rd parties according to John Towns. --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 31 Tue Aug 25, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 04:49 EDT B.STOREY - No, it won't use present SIMM's (unless a third party makes a replacement SIMM board that'll fit into the machine). Also, you *CAN* use present HD's. All you have to do is remove the host adaptor and get the right kind of SCSI adaptor/cable. And yes, the 640x480 and 320x480 resolutions need an SVGA monitor, but you can use up to 640x400 (but interlaced) on a standard ST RGB monitor. If you don't want the interlaced display, you again need an SVGA monitor. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 32 Tue Aug 25, 1992 C.WOOTEN [Howard] at 05:12 EDT Can anyone say flicker! what goes around comes around. ironic isn't it. Next your going to tell me the Falcon has a HAM graphics mode. Hi Kevin :) ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 33 Tue Aug 25, 1992 J.WHITNEY2 [JOHN] at 06:10 EDT Looks like it'll be a while before I start flying the "Big Bird". My 4meg STe isn't even close to be worn out yet !!!! But I sure hope they sell a LOT of them !!!! WE really need a respected machine out there !!! That is, one that's respected by the entire computer community and not just us Atari fanatics !! Later, John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 34 Tue Aug 25, 1992 K.HOUSER [M.Q. Def] at 07:45 EDT Howard, Actually, I'm waiting for the new Amiga Chipset so I can hack a board to pop them into it. [8^) Didn't you hear, Atari bought Commod... nyaaa.... Umm, will an Amiga flicker fixer work? . At least *I* don't have to like the flicker and can continue to use mono or buy a VGA/SVGA monitor. :) --Kevin (Jes kiddin') ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 35 Tue Aug 25, 1992 C.WOOTEN [Howard] at 23:13 EDT Kevin, I'm looking to buy a multi-sync monitor, In the meantime I run in PAL mode, (256x640) or (512x640) interlace & wear shades. :) Seriously, I hope Atari & Commodore get their U.S. support teams together and grab a little more of the market share. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 36 Wed Aug 26, 1992 K.HOUSER [M.Q. Def] at 01:17 EDT Howard I guess that's similar to when I run in 50Hz overscan mode of 800x300 or so. Kinda wicked on the eyes. :) Well, I guess DrumKitz won't make it to the Amiga platform unless I become sooo rich I can afford YACS (Yet Another Computer System). I'd like an Amiga development setup too, but software for one machine is enough to empty the wallet, and I have gazillions of outdated 8bit systems (2 Atari 8bits, 1 Coco3 maxed out w/ OS9 HD etc, 4 or so freebie Coco1 & 2's which would be great for dedicated controllers if I ever get an EPROMMER :), and a CPM/86 -- CPM/8085 dual processor machine with an S-100 bus and 256K STATIC RAM). I think the 8086/8085 machine has the multitasking CPM. :) ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 37 Wed Aug 26, 1992 P.STONE [Xorcist] at 06:32 EDT I'm sorry, I meant Sound Designer II. Sound Designer for the Atari is ok, except for one small problem. It sucks. (Sorry, too used to the Mac version). W/the new DSP, all the neat compression/pitch change/EQ/etc... would be nice. I'm dreaming, I know. James, Man, you hit the nail on the head. That's why either Alchemy or Sound Designer MUST be ported. It will make the Atari GODLIKE. (Can you tell I really enjoy Atari's better MIDI timing and software selection already over the Mac?) Steve, What's all this about DESKTOP Falcons? I never saw anything said about those yet... Hmmm... ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 38 Wed Aug 26, 1992 K.HOUSER [M.Q. Def] at 07:43 EDT Xorcist, But if someone were to write something like SDII or better, and it imported SD files... would you buy it??? Or wait in vain for Digidesign? --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 39 Thu Aug 27, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 03:36 EDT P.STONE - Atari won't talk about the desktop model Falcon's (with faster 030's and 040's) yet, but most people know they're there. They displayed a prototype 040-based Falcon at the AtariMesse show last weekend and the desktop model machines are due sometime around next Spring or Summer. The desktop machines will replace the TT030, the Falcon030 is supposed to replace the MSTE, and there are rumors of an even 'lesser' Falcon machine to replace the STE. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 40 Sun Aug 30, 1992 J.FRENCH2 [James] at 11:27 EDT This might be a stupid question but here goes... Will my SM124 monitor work with the Falcon? Its still my favourite monitor for day(days?) long computer sessions. I hope the ST high resolution is not only available on SVGA.('cause affordable VGA monitors give me an immense headache after 10 minutes of use, or maybe it was the IBM compatible the monitor was connected to?) As well, let me let out a major gripe I have with the Falcon: It doesn't have a 1024x960 mode! I know 19" monitors are expensive but it would be nice to know that when I can afford one I'll be able to do some serious DTP and score- writing without having to buy a TT. And PLEASE don't tell me that the Falcon in the spring will have this graphic mode! I want to buy one now! Xorcist, Was GODLIKE an allusion to the KMFDM song? Just wondering. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 41 Sun Aug 30, 1992 R.CORDRAY [Rickster] at 12:19 EDT Here's another stupid question, but I should only have to ask once! ... This Falcon sports the 1.44 HD disk drive. Will it read all my regular disks ( DS/DD) that I have currently for my 1040STf? If not, how will I get the Falcon to do my CP stuff that needs the 'key' disk and for that matter, any CP stuff that can't be put on the Hard Drive and then ported to a 1.44 disk? Rickster :) ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 42 Sun Aug 30, 1992 P.STONE [Xorcist] at 17:39 EDT If someone wrote something that was like or better then SDII, I would buy it. Yes. James: That song was running through my head when I wrote it... ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 43 Mon Aug 31, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 05:57 EDT J.FRENCH2 - Yes, you can still use the SM124/SM147 on the Falcon030 by using an adaptor. In fact, you'll also get overscanning on them if you want it. The ST RGB and monochrome monitors both work on the Falcon030 with an adaptor. Even RGB monitor owners can get an interlaced ST high resolution in up to 65,536 colors. R.CORDRAY - Yes, it will still handle normal double-density single and double sided disks. All 1.44MB high-density drives remain backward compatible with older drives. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 44 Mon Aug 31, 1992 R.CORDRAY [Rickster] at 20:04 EDT YIPPEEEEE!!!!!! (oops...err...uh...) Thanks for the info S.Johnson10...( er...uh...) I CAN call ya' Steve, eh?? :) Rickster :) ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 45 Wed Sep 02, 1992 C.FLUEGEL [Curt] at 19:46 EDT Anyone have any specifics on the D2D program Atari developed for the Falcon? Curt ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 46 Thu Sep 03, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 01:45 EDT C.FLUEGEL - The only thing mentioned by Bill Rehbock was that D2D allowed 2- track (i.e. stereo) 16-bit recording and the ability to edit the samples. He added that either D2D or a like product would be INCLUDED with the Falcon (I haven't gotten the specifics on that). ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 47 Sun Sep 06, 1992 J.FRENCH2 [James] at 14:38 EDT I hope I didn't sound too negative about my previous comment about the big screen monitor support. ;) Well, I attended a multi-media exhibition yesterday and found out about a product called the Philips CDD521 CD recorder. This CDN$8200 unit will record to special CDs in CDROM or CD Audio format. The software to master these CDs (available on MAC or PCs) was worth CDN$4000. Now, if someone would write a program that would, using the Philips recorder and using the specialized digital capabilities of the Falcon, record direct to CD and if this program was a fraction of the price of the MAC and IBM software this would definately sell a lot of Falcons. The recordable CDs are $60 to $70 a shot but I'm sure as more are produced these prices will come down. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 48 Mon Sep 14, 1992 FAIRWEATHER [David] (Forwarded) The Falcon offers mind boggling possibilities for digital sound processing and direct-to-disk recording. There is much speculation that midi applications able to tap into the Falcon's sampling capabilities are already in development. And Atari has announced that the Falcon will ship bundled with a simple 2-track stereo sampling program for fun and games with the Falcon's stereo microphone inputs. The key to all these applications is the Falcon's Digital Signal Processor chip. What applications would you all like to see? For starters, I was wondering whether the DSP chip could be used as a pitch-to-midi converter? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 49 Tue Sep 15, 1992 K.HOUSER [M.Q. Def] (Forwarded) David, Yes, the DSP could be used as a pitch to midi converter with the right software. --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 50 Tue Sep 15, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] (Forwarded) There's already a Falcon030 topic here (Topic 33). Bye-bye, Topic 34! ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 51 Thu Sep 17, 1992 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 22:53 EDT I think I may wait till June or July to buy a Falcon. Hopefully by then there will be a choice of Falcon specific music software. Ideally I'd like to see an all-in-one program priced under $200 that includes: (1) a midi sequencer that can access sampled sounds held in RAM, (2) a pitch-to-midi converter, and (3) a simple direct-to-disk recorder that can stripe a couple of vocal tracks in sync with the midi sequences. I hope the $200 price range isn't unrealistic. I'm not a professional musician. just an amateur who enjoys fooling around. But I'm afraid all we'll see at first are Falcon Cubase and Falcon Notator priced at $500 to $1000. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 52 Tue Sep 22, 1992 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 19:27 EDT I have heard that a Falcon will be shown at a BCS meeting at 225 Clarendon St. in Boston at around 7:30PM on Wednsday, Sept 23rd. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 53 Wed Sep 23, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 02:31 EDT WARNING!!! Long post ahead! O.ZONE - Yes, there will be a press conference at around 5:30PM, I believe, and then a big demonstration at the Boston Computer Society meeting around 7:30PM. Here are the press releases from Atari: Atari Falcon030 Press Release ----------------------------- ATARI INTRODUCES FIRST COMPUTER SYSTEM DESIGNED FOR PERSONAL INTEGRATED MEDIA Atari Falcon030(tm) brings high-end capabilities to the market for less than $1,000. Boston (September 23, 1992) - Atari Corporation today announced the first available personal integrated media system, the Atari Falcon030 computer. From education to entertainment, personal integrated media (PIM) has the potential to change consumers' lives as dramatically as personal computers changed business offices. The system will be available in November at authorized Atari Dealers across the country. A full scale computer based on the powerful 16 MHz Motorola 68030 microprocessor, the Atari Falcon030 is specifically designed for personal integrated media functions. It gives even inexperienced users the ability to combine and manipulate video, audio, animation, telecommunications, text and graphics. The system is optimized for these functions and incorporates technology usually reserved for high-end production systems. "The Atari Falcon030 is an ideal entry into the new and growing personal integrated media market," said Sam Tramiel, Atari's president and CEO. "It's a powerful system that gives users access to a whole new world of applications. Yet the system remains easy-to-use and affordable." Consumers will be able to use the Atari Falcon030 as a color video phone, communicating in sound and pictures with other Atari Falcon030 users. The system makes it possible to create home videos complete with text and music, record lead vocals on a favorite rock 'n roll classic with the originals musicians playing along, narrate and score a family photo album, produce a visual family tree, invent and play an adventure game set in a childhood home, and much more. Atari Falcon030 users have immediate access to advanced PIM capabilities thanks to the following features: ||| Atari's Graphic Environment Manager (GEM) and built in graphics co-processor ||| A true color mode that includes more than 65,000 colors, twice the capability of the Apple MacIntosh LC II ||| The industry's only standard-equipped MIDI input/output ports ||| 16-bit stereo sound - input and output - for the highest quality reproductions available at sample rates up to 50 kHz ||| Built-in composite and RF video outputs for easy connection to video cassette recorders ||| External video sync for high quality genlocking ||| Overlay mode for easy video titling and special effects ||| Software for PIM applications such as desktop video productions, animations, music and entertainment. No other computer provides this level of performance and PIM capabilities at a more economical price. Applications Highlights PIM technology will make thousands of new capabilities possible. There are already hundreds of software applications available for the Atari Falcon030, making it easy for users to accomplish a variety of new goals. Movie Quality Video With the Atari Falcon030, users can explore new avenues in home video, from inserting titles and credits to professional quality editing. They can create music videos, cartoons, and school presentations. The Atari Falcon030 offers state of the art graphics, true color 16-bit mode allowing up to 640x480 resolution and a display of up to 65,536 on-screen colors. It accepts external video sync for high quality genlocking, and uses a unique overlay mode for effortless titling and special effects. In addition, users can obtain composite video signals directly from the Falcon030. High Quality Audio Atari takes the music-industry standard - MIDI - one step further. The only company to provide MIDI as a standard system component, the Atari Falcon030 also incorporates Motorola's 56001 digital signal processor (DSP) for the highest quality audio and special effects capabilities, allowing users to remove lead vocals and create their own Kareoke machine or run music educations programs. The Atari Falcon030 provides users with features that are usually restricted to expensive, high-end machines. But without any additional equipment, Atari Falcon030 users can record on two stereo tracks and add graphic equalization and special effects such as surround sound, harmonizing, reverberation, and echo. Pricing and Availability The Atari Falcon030 is a simple to use computer that doesn't require add-on boards or other costly optional hardware. The Atari Falcon030 already includes exactly what users need. The machine offers a wealth of ports for communicating with existing peripherals, and application software for the Atari Falcon030 is readily available. Priced at $799 with 1 MB of RAM, the Atari Falcon030 is ideal for users who want a powerful, efficient, and cost-effective tool that can take advantage of today's technologies. The system will be available in November through authorized Atari dealers. Atari Corporation (AMEX:ATC) is a worldwide manufacturer and marketer of palmtop through desktop computer systems. The company sells it's systems, peripherals, and software through authorized distributors, resellers and integrators. Atari is a registered trademark of Atari Corporation. Atari Falcon030, TOS, MultiTOS, NewDesk and BLiTTER, are trademarks of Atari Corporation. Motorola is a registered trademark of Motorola, Inc. Atari Falcon030 Specifications Contact: Sue Baelen or Anne Ellingsen Ron Smith or Bill Rehbock Redgate Communications Atari Corporation (415) 777-3911 (408) 745-2000 (415) 777-0896 - Fax (408) 745-2088 - Fax System Architecture ------------------- ||| Motorola 68030 operating at 16 MHz ||| On-chip demand-paged memory management ||| Separate on-chip 256-byte instruction and data caches ||| Independent address and data buses for increased performance ||| Pipelined architecture ||| 32-bit data/address bus ||| 1, 4 or 14 MB RAM configurations ||| 512K internal ROM; 128K external cartridge Sound ----- ||| Eight 16-bit digital audio DMA record and playback channels with up to 50 kHz sampling rate ||| Stereo 16-bit digital DMA audio input/output ||| SDMA sound/DMA co-processor Digital Signal Processor ------------------------ ||| Motorola 56001 DSP operating at 32 MHz ||| 96 MIPS performance at 32 MHz ||| 32K words of 0 wait-state static RAM ||| DSP connector allows easy connection of low-cost 19.2K baud fax/data modems, voice mail systems, direct-to-disk digital audio recorders, JPEG/MPEG image compression, etc. Graphics -------- ||| 640 x 480 resolution and 256 colors in Super VGA ||| True color 16-bit mode allows display of up to 65,536 colors ||| Accepts external video sync signal to allow high-quality genlocking ||| Overlay mode for easy video titling and special effects ||| Optional overscan ||| 262,144 possible colors ||| Hardware-assisted horizontal fine scrolling ||| BLiTTER graphics co-processor Expansion Bus ------------- ||| Internal direct processor slot for 386SX PC emulation, DMA co-processors, etc. ||| Optional processor socket for other co-processors Standard Ports -------------- ||| SCSI II port with Direct Memory Access (DMA) ||| High-speed LocalTalk-compatible LAN port ||| Connector for analog RGB color (VGA or ST) or composite video ||| RS232C serial port ||| Bi-directional parallel port (also suitable for image scanners) ||| Cartridge port (128K capacity) ||| MIDI in/out ||| Minature stereo plug input/output ||| Four 9-pin joystick connectors ||| Two 15-pin enhanced digital/analog controller and light pen connectors Data Storage ------------ ||| 1.44 MB floppy disk drive ||| MS-DOS format compatibility ||| Optional internal IDE hard drive User Interface -------------- ||| Standard QWERTY keyboard layout. Low profile, sculptured ergonomic design ||| 94/5 keys; 10 function keys. Separate numeric and cursor keypads ||| Keyboard processor to reduce CPU overhead ||| 2-button mouse supplied as standard System Software --------------- ||| Pre-emptive multitasking with adaptive prioritization (MultiTOS) ||| Inter-process communication through MultiTOS messages and pipes ||| TOS operating system in ROM ||| Hierarchical file system with subdirectories and path names ||| Icon-based graphical user interface with self-explanatory command functions ||| Online help ||| Multiple window user interface with icons and drop-down menus ||| NewDesk desktop and eXtensible Control panel allows customization by user Atari MultiTOS Press Release ---------------------------- ATARI SHIPS NEW MULTITASKING OPERATING SYSTEM WITH ATARI FALCON030 PERSONAL INTEGRATED MEDIA SYSTEM Upgraded MultiTOS System Incorporates Notable New Capabilities Based on User Suggestions, Including Font Scaling Manager. BOSTON (September 23, 1992) - Atari Corporation announced today its new multitasking operating system, called MultiTOS. Available with the new Atari Falcon030 personal integrated media machine, the system will be available in November at Atari distributors around the country. "We took advantage of our strong user network and made many of our upgrades based on input from dedicated Atari users and developers around the world," said Leonard Tramiel, vice-president of system software for Atari. "We designed the operating system around the way people use computers. I believe the level of attention to users, and the degree to which this operating system addresses those concerns, is unique in the industry. We've built in more options and flexibility and at the same time dramatically improved performance." Immediate Pre-Emptive Multitasking Capabilities Atari's MultiTOS is compatible with existing applications and upgrades from software developers are not required. Running on the Atari Falcon030, MultiTOS takes advantage of the hardware memory protection built into Motorola's 68030. Users can confidently run a word processing program without quitting out of a database or electronic mail program first. Unlike offerings from other personal computer manufacturers, Atari's MultiTOS is pre-emptive. The system doesn't have to wait for permission from one application before switching to another task. "Other multitasking systems may leave a user waiting indefinitely, until a calculation or manipulation is completed before changing to another application," said Tramiel. "But MultiTOS is more sophisticated and will switch between applications automatically." The result is a true multitasking environment. Multiple applications can be left running in background windows as new tasks are started in the foreground window. A database program does not have to complete its sort before the user changes windows into a word processor. "NewDesk" Improved In addition to the operating system enhancements, the graphic desktop, NewDesk, has also been upgraded. New features include: . Animated, color icons . 3-D buttons and scroll bars . Manipulate and resize background windows . "Drag and drop" across applications . Extensible file system support . Use soft-loaded fonts . Hierarchical and pop-up menus Font Scaling Manager Word processing and desktop publishing users will be especially pleased with the addition of Font Scaling Manager (FSM). FSM makes it easy to view any font size by allowing applications to scale text to any point size. FSM also makes arbitrary font rotation and skewing possible, and allows direct manipulation of font characters' Bezier outlines for more advanced type effects. MultiTOS will ship with the Atari Falcon030, available November 1992. Additionally, MultiTOS will soon be available as an upgrade to Atari's TT030. Demonstrations can be seen at authorized Atari dealers around the country. Atari Corporation (AMEX:ATC) is a worldwide manufacturer and marketer of palmtop through desktop computer systems. The company sells its systems, peripherals and software through authorized distributors, resellers and integrators. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 54 Wed Sep 23, 1992 QC [The Un-Jerry] at 19:26 EDT Yeeeeeehow. This may be a sign that Atari is finally ready to get serious in the U.S. market. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 55 Wed Sep 23, 1992 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 23:04 EDT Well I saw the demonstration and I must say that I, (along with all the other, some non-Atari users present) was quite impressed. I simply must have one. Unfortunately it looks like we'll have to wait until January. Flakes ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 56 Thu Sep 24, 1992 M.MURRAY18 [big mike] at 05:02 EDT ...finally ready to get serious in the U.S. market. Where have I heard that one before? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 57 Thu Sep 24, 1992 QC [The Un-Jerry] at 19:29 EDT Gee, I dunno. Where have you heard that before? I was just offering my initial impression of the specs. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 58 Fri Sep 25, 1992 D.BURNS6 [>>Roadkill>>] at 06:58 EDT Ozone: On-Line Computer in N. Reading doesn't exist anymore (at least not at 280 Main St.). ==Road==*=kill== ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 59 Sat Sep 26, 1992 C.FLUEGEL [Curt] at 21:39 EDT there wont be many before January, but they will be out there. I work for Guitar Center in Minneapolis. We will be stocking Falcons, we have 15 stores in the country, and have been told by Atari (I hope truthfully) we will be one of the dealers to have them immediately, which means by November. There should be enough so they dont totally miss the Christmas rush. Curt ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 60 Sun Sep 27, 1992 D.BURNS6 [>>Roadkill>>] at 02:57 EDT Curt: Will the Falcon be available mail-order from you or any other vendor? Road==*=kill ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 61 Tue Sep 29, 1992 J.WHITNEY2 [JOHN] at 06:46 EDT >MIDI_WorldMusic RT >Category 3, Topic 33 >Message 58 Fri Sep 25, 1992 >D.BURNS6 [>>Roadkill>>] at 06:58 EDT > >Ozone: > >On-Line Computer in N. Reading doesn't exist anymore (at least not at 280 Main >St.). > >==Road==*=kill== >---------- RoadKill, is that N. Reading as in Reading, PA. ???? I just came back from a visit to there.......!!! Could only find 1 ST user there! Later, John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 62 Wed Sep 30, 1992 D.BURNS6 [>>Roadkill>>] at 23:02 EDT No John--sorry I forgot this is a BIG network . Ozone and I both live in Massachussetts, and talked about this on the Player's Night RTC. It's N. Reading Ma., and it's gone. (sniff sniff). BTW folks, sorry I missed last nights PN RTC. My phone was out. Will try again next week! Road==*=kill ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 63 Wed Sep 30, 1992 C.FLUEGEL [Curt] at 23:08 EDT RoadKill : I would be MORE than happy to mail order you one. Atari still hasnt released Dealer pricing. So I cant give you a price. Feel free to call me at 612-631- 9424 (Curt/Keyboards) or Fax at 612-631-9479 or mail me here at CFLUEGEL. If you dont live in Illinois, Texas, California, or Minnesota you wont have to pay Sales tax. Curt ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 64 Sat Oct 03, 1992 P.THOMAS6 [Pete] at 02:28 EDT Curt, As I am a new resident of the Twin Cities and an Atari user, please leave me some email when you guys get the Falcon. I'm very interested in seeing it. Thanks. Pete Thomas ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 65 Sat Oct 03, 1992 R.THUROW at 04:02 EDT So the Big Bird is a go....well, gentlemen and ladies, how about some discussion here? Several unresolved issues to my thinking. 1) Can Falcon run Notator? Hints say it can. I have over 60 meg of Notator music, and I, for one, don't plan to immediately jump ship. 2) So the falc has a 2 track digital audio recorder bundled. Will this really aid us musicians deeply entrenched in Midi sequences? Will the falcon be our "main" computer, or will we treat it like more of an "add-on" to our racks of gear, perhaps like a swiss army knife for the audio we used to put on 4 and 8 track multi- track recorders. If Falcie can't run Notator, can we at least SMPTE it up like a 4 track? 3) The question of software...How long will the wait be; and when ther day comes, how expensive will it be. Could you possibly edit 8 tracks of an ADAT, with pitch shifting, cut and paste and then send it back and not lose meaningful sound quality? How good are the converters? As good as a DAT? I'm not talking specs or theories, but by the ear? C'mon, lets get talkin' Rich ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 66 Sat Oct 03, 1992 K.HOUSER [M.Q. Def] at 04:22 EDT IT *CAN'T* run Notator in the current version of 3.1. This is because Notator won't run on any CPU except a 68000. C-Lab could fix this problem easily tho'. Of course, Logic will be out probably around the time you can actually buy a Falcon (I hope). --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 67 Sat Oct 03, 1992 M.MURRAY18 [big mike] at 23:54 EDT Rich, I'm also curious about what the possibilities are of a combined Falcon/ADAT setup. It seems like a hardware/software setup like that would be the utmost in both power and convenience. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 68 Sun Oct 04, 1992 C.FLUEGEL [Curt] at 23:30 EDT actually according to C-Lab it will work on a Falcon by the time the Falcon is released. Cubase will also already work on a Falcon. It is actually set up for 8track digital recording. It just only has stereo out and you can only record two tracks at a time. Curt ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 69 Sun Oct 04, 1992 D.LIGHT2 [David] at 23:41 EDT What I'd like to see is a combined Falcon/ADAT setup that would allow 16 trks of recording, the ability to swap trks back and forth for detailed editing in the falcon. You could backup the 8 trks in the falcon by transfering them to a blank ADAT tape. Just an idea. Dave Light ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 70 Mon Oct 05, 1992 M.MURRAY18 [big mike] at 02:28 EDT Dave Light, The Adat/Falcon idea has seemed like a good one to me too although I suspect I can afford neither. I think for now I'd rather stay analogue and concentrate on things like getting cool mics and other things along the signal chain. --Big mike ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 71 Mon Oct 05, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 04:09 EDT C-Lab has had a Falcon since they were first given to developers, so anything from them should be very Falcon-friendly. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 72 Tue Oct 06, 1992 R.THUROW at 00:43 EDT Does anyone know what software will be available down the road...Any juicy rumors? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 73 Tue Oct 06, 1992 D.LIGHT2 [David] at 01:35 EDT Big Mike, I've been collecting mics, effects, guitars, monitors.... for the last five years. My partners own the mixer and multitrack, and I own almost everything else. I like my partners, but they have different goals than I. I'm saving my pennies for the right multitrack system, so I can go it on my own. The Adat looks fine, but lacks the editing capabilities that the current analog mach. has. Combined with the Falcon and the right software, the editing options are mind boggling. I guess it's still too early for the Falcon, or the ADAT to know what will happen though. David Light ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 74 Tue Oct 06, 1992 M.MURRAY18 [big mike] at 02:20 EDT David, I suspect the main reason I would add ADAT to my 16 track would be because of it's modularity. For example, If you do a song with drummer X and decide that it might be cool to have done it with drummer Y instead, you can just take the tracks and put them on an ADAT tape and then record over the old ones without too much fear. --Big mike ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 75 Mon Oct 19, 1992 KEBAUM at 23:33 EDT Falcon sighting reported ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 76 Mon Oct 19, 1992 KEBAUM at 23:53 EDT Falcon sighted in Washington D.C.! I just got back from the WAACE Atarifest last weekend in Washington where Atari demoed the FALCON. I saw and heard the new machine. The color graphics were fabulous(65,000 colors on the screen) and made my MAC IICI at work loook pale and overpriced by comparison.(Thank God it wasn't my 4 grand that bought the IICI) But you want to hear about the sound.........In one word WOW! They demoed a novelty type program called Audio Fun Machine that will be bundled with the Falcon that turned the Falcon into a realtime FX processor(chorus, reverb,distortion etc.) It sounded clear and free of digital noises. Then they showed D2D, the stereo hard disk recording software that I think will be bundled also. It too was impressive. It uses 11Meg of Hard drive space for every minute of stereo recording, which would something to consider before purchasing one. Again, the samples sounded clear and all the basic editing features were there. Their final demo featured a Tina Turner video that was played off the hard drive with all the video and audio being played through the Falcon hardware It was very impressive. I think I'll start writing the check C C C C C C C C C C ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 77 Tue Oct 20, 1992 J.OLIVER17 [Please Vote!] at 02:08 EDT Great! Tell us more! Was the sound editing software anything like AVALON? Was this D2D software something that also handles MIDI files in parallel with the playback of hard disk recordings (i.e. play synths along with the sound files)? Tell all!! ---JohnO ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 78 Tue Oct 20, 1992 SM [The Mixer] at 04:26 EDT My word, a WAACE post that was less than to screens long! >>>>>>Steve ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 79 Tue Oct 20, 1992 R.PAGE20 [Bob Page] at 22:57 EDT Well, I guess I HAVE to tell my WAACE experience also. I too saw the Falcon (emphasis on SAW) & was fairly impressed with the graphics. I went with a friend who runs an Amiga animation studio (5 amigas & a couple of 486s) & he was somewhat suprised. Graphics don't really excite me (well there are a few ....but that's another story :)....) so I was looking forward to checking out the D2D software. I've toyed around with the idea of picking up a Falcon to accent the ole music room up here, so I really ONLY wanted to see what audio potential the Falcon has. Would you believe that NOBODY could show me ANY audio demo other than the Star Trek blips (Spock says "fascinating"). Of course this was on Saturday & I understand that the REAL demos were on Sunday (perhaps some prayer was needed). Dave Small couldn't even FIND his D2D software! Oh well.. I guess it wasn't my day. Maybe that explains why I spent so much money at the vendors' tables (drowning my sorrow in software?). Upp...gotta go ...I hear the topic length police coming...they're yelling "STOP HIM!..IT'S ANOTHER WAACE POST!".... ~~Bob Page ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 80 Wed Oct 21, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 01:53 EDT J.OLIVER17 - No, D2D does NO MIDI whatsoever. However, it may be able to multitask with MIDI software. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 81 Wed Oct 21, 1992 BAREFOOT [Brad Cox] at 13:38 EDT Hello all- I went to the Music Technology show at Cogswell College this last weekend to demonstrate Barefoot Software's new SMPTETrack Platinum and as Atari was gracious enough to allow me to share their room I got a serious look at the latest stuff for the Falcon with an accent on audio applications. They showed several video-and-audio demos highlighting the simultaneous use of full color video and 50 kHz sampled audio with no data compression of either. Then, they demo'ed two audio processing programs that did stereo 10 band graphic EQ, echo, flanging, surround sound simulation, reverb and two voice harmonization with level control for the original signal and the two harmonies. The pitches of the harmonies are MIDI controllable too. The direct to disk program was shown, and it allowed ranges of the recording to be defined and then used in a play list to allow non-destructive looping, editing and resequencing of the recording. Then the file was played back through the audio processing software (Peter Gabriel sounds like heavy industrial grunge rock when tuned down an octave!) The most impressive demo to me though, was when Jay Patton setup an effect program, and then left it running while he went off and launched another program entirely! This shows the reality of the Falcon's tremendous parallel processing capability and bodes well for simultaneous MIDI sequencing and direct to disk recording, or sequencing while the DSP runs a synthesizer or sample playback program. Really impressive! In the shameless plug department, the specifications for Barefoot Software's soon to be released SMPTETrack and EditTrack Platinum are in the Barefoot Category 35, topic 4. Bye for now! Brad @ BAREFOOT ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 82 Thu Oct 22, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 04:09 EDT BAREFOOT - The DSP wouldn't be needed for a sample-playback program. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 83 Thu Oct 22, 1992 BAREFOOT [Brad Cox] at 15:13 EDT Steve- Why wouldn't the DSP be needed for a sample-playback program? If that were all the unit was doing, then it could certainly add some real time signal processing features, and if the Falcon were to run a Sequencer program at the same time, it would use the '030 while the DSP handled the sample playback tasks. -Brad @ BAREFOOT ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 84 Fri Oct 23, 1992 D.LIGHT2 [David] at 00:49 EDT If the DACs are connected to the 56001 output buss only then sample data would have to pass through the DSP. The DSP wouldn't have to do anything to the data though. Is there anyone out there who know's how the DSP/CPU architecture is set up? Normally the DSP's input and output busses are dedicated to thier own hardware, and the DSP's control buss is connected to the CPU's data buss. Dave Light ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 85 Fri Oct 23, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 03:01 EDT BAREFOOT - The SDMA processor could handle sample playback while the Falcon runs a MIDI application, so there's no need for the DSP. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 86 Fri Oct 23, 1992 BAREFOOT [Brad Cox] at 17:15 EDT Steve- So potenitally it could do sequencing, sample playback and hard disk recording? What is the SDMA, SoundDMA? Would it need to use one or more of the 8 digital audio channels or the data matrix that passes data between DSP, Codecs, etc.? (As you can see I know just enough about this to get myself into trouble ... I don't have the complete spec yet and have only studied certain parts of what I do have!) -Brad @ BAREFOOT ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 87 Sat Oct 24, 1992 K.HOUSER [M.Q. Def] at 01:03 EDT David, Yes. :) See the Moto book on the DSP. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 88 Sat Oct 24, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 04:03 EDT BAREFOOT - The SDMA is the Falcon030's sound processor and can handle the 8- channel digital audio playback (2-track recording) by itself, so I don't think you could actually have sample playback and direct-to-disk recording simultaneously (which seems an odd thing to do anyway). However, you COULD have a MIDI sequencer program, a sample playback program, and an effects box program to process the sample playback signals through. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 89 Sat Oct 24, 1992 E.THOMAS2 at 10:10 EDT ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 90 Sat Oct 24, 1992 B.STOREY [Billy B.] at 11:19 EDT Brad, since Atari is supplying developers with early Falcons, perhaps if you went to them, you could get one. They are certainly going to consider Barefoot a developer. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 91 Sun Oct 25, 1992 D.LIGHT2 [David] at 01:08 EDT Kevin, Long time, no talk. I'm looking at the Motorola Master Selection Guide now (for the first time in a long time). I don't have any programming info, but I'm sure thier are ways of xfering data between the Data bus and the Host Data bus. The Host bus is only one byte wide though. It's also interesting that one of it's serial I/O's is designed with Codec in mind. I hear that one of the serial ports will not be available in the Falcon. I haven't given up on programming yet. I'm still with GFA, but am forcing myself to learn GEM. I've gone through ProGem as you suggested (I think), and it's been alot of help. I've pretty much learned how to use RCS and how to handle objects (not real well, but I'm getting there). GEM ain't so bad after all. I have a friend that's going through the same thing with Windows 3.1, I can't believe how similar they are as far as window manipulations go. Since you are an Atari developer, are you going to get/or already have a Falcon? Dave Light ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 92 Sun Oct 25, 1992 P.STONE [Xorcist] at 01:40 EDT Sample playback and direct-to-disk recording an odd thing to do? If Falcon CAN'T do it, it's worthless. What you've just described is the essentials of multi-track recording, the heart of any recording system over 2 tracks. SP without D2D is like a body without a heart. Useless. orcist ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 93 Sun Oct 25, 1992 K.HOUSER [M.Q. Def] at 01:45 EST David, Don't have one yet... hopefully *soon* ... Yeah, I've been busy lately with the 'day' job. :( , I think the guy meant like doing sampling synthesis (ie a sampler) and HD rec/play simultaneously. It is VERY much possible with the right software & coordination of tasks. --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 94 Sun Oct 25, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 02:28 EST P.STONE - Whoops! Sorry about that! I wasn't thinking straight. I didn't mean to imply that the Falcon couldn't simulaneously playback samples and record at the same time. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 95 Sun Oct 25, 1992 P.STONE [Xorcist] at 17:30 EST Steve... No problem. In a way, the Falcon has yet to show software that can PB 6 tracks while recording 2. Demos are demos... they could be clever DAT tapes for all one knows until the product is actually working... I'll be hoping it works... I want to try out my SCSI 2, 9ms, 1.2gig drive out on it! ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 96 Sun Oct 25, 1992 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 20:11 EST So has anyone seen one for sale anywhere yet? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 97 Mon Oct 26, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 03:01 EST O-ZONE - Nope! They aren't even for sale in Europe yet. I've heard Sam and company just recently flew to Taiwan to see what the holdup was. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 98 Mon Oct 26, 1992 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 19:35 EST Ummm... I have a button I got at the Hartford WAACE that says RSN with a red "no smoking" type slash through it. I'm gonna be ready to buy one in February or March '93 so I hope they will be around by then! Flakes ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 99 Tue Oct 27, 1992 SM [The Mixer] at 02:14 EST A holdup? Here we go again.... (It's hell being an Atari columnist and being cynical about the company.) >>>>>>>Steve ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 100 Tue Oct 27, 1992 J.WHITNEY2 [JOHN] at 05:20 EST Steve, It's even WORSE being an ST USER and being cynical about the company ! Later, John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 101 Tue Oct 27, 1992 W.COLUMBUS [BLAZE] at 07:03 EST Reason # 609 I have gone to a P.C. ,and I don't regret it! ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 102 Tue Oct 27, 1992 BAREFOOT [Brad Cox] at 15:10 EST Steve- An odd thing to sequence internal samples, external MIDI, and record it all to hard disk? All I can say is "Let me be ODD!". I think it may be too much to ask though. I'm unclear on whether the communication matrix allows simultaneous communication between two different sources and receivers or if such operations have to be multiplexed. Also I find no direct way to send data to disk from the DSP section so it looks like the processor has to handle the memory-to-disk-and-back transfers. Also, do you or anybody out there know the maximum transfer rate of the LAN port? There's no mention of this in the Preliminary developer docs. Talk to you soon, Brad @ BAREFOOT Billy B.- We're on the list for a Falcon already. I can hardly wait! -Brad ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 103 Wed Oct 28, 1992 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 00:55 EST Brad, ever since I heard of the Falcon's DSP I have dreamed that it might be able to 1. Emulate a Roland Sound Canvas, playing midi-driven sampled intruments. 2. Allow me to digitally record stereo vocals over a midi sequence (possibly with sound on sound vocal overdubs) and play back the whole shebang, including the above mentioned "pseudo Sound Canvas" sampled sounds. Since I do have an MT-32, its not crucial that I be able to hear the "Sound Canvas" samples while I'm recording. I could temporarily make do with the MT-32 sounds during the vocal recordings if the "Sound Canvas" samples would become available again during the final playback. Do you think this is too tall an order for the Falcon? If not, will Barefoot be writing a sequencer that can handle all that? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 104 Wed Oct 28, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 01:53 EST BAREFOOT - The LAN handles up to 900,000 bps, I believe. The DSP isn't needed at all for direct-to-disk recording, so there doesn't need to be a "direct way to send data to disk from the DSP section." The SDMA processor will handle routing the sample data to disk, and vice versa. I'm also a little unclear on the communication matrix (capability-wise). Here's a diagram: Source devices EXT INPUT ---*-------*------*------* CHANNEL | | | | | | | | DSP ---*-------*------*------* TRANSMIT | | | | | | | | ADC ---*-------*------*------* | | | | | | | | DMA ---*-------*------*------* PLAYBACK | | | | DMA DAC DSP EXT OUTPUT RECORD RECEIVE CHANNEL Receiving Devices I seem to recall that more than one connection can be made at a time, so perhaps the DMA PLAYBACK can be routed to the DAC, while at the same time having the ADC routed to the DMA RECORD. However, that depends on whether or not the SDMA processor can handle simultaneous record/playback. I'm not sure if I'm translating this matrix properly, though. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 105 Wed Oct 28, 1992 SM [The Mixer] at 11:06 EST John -- I'm an ST user. We have three of them here.... >>>>>>Steve ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 106 Wed Oct 28, 1992 BAREFOOT [Brad Cox] at 16:59 EST David- I don't want to raise too many expectations but Barefoot will definitely be looking at adding audio capability to our products. I'm still in the conjecture stage of Falcon capabilities as I don't have a complete spec on the machine and I'm not an expert on soft/hardware development. As I said in an earlier post, I know enough to get myself into trouble. I can safely state though that it will be able to record and playback stereo sound while running a MIDI sequencer. I'm less sure that you'd be able to also play samples at the same time, but so far I haven't seen anything that prevents that. -Brad Steve- I've sort of been considering the whole DSP/DMA/Matrix et al as "the DSP section". The way I interpret the Falcon hardware reference guide, the DMA sends data to system ram. How does it get to disk without processor intervention? Thanks for the diagram. The block diagram in the Falcon hardware reference shows two separate blocks for DMA record and DMA playback, each with a FIFO to buffer the data, so I have to say that it looks like it does rec/play simultaneously. -Brad ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 107 Wed Oct 28, 1992 K.HOUSER [M.Q. Def] at 18:51 EST Brad, These questions would be better for the Atari Dev RT where you'd be more likely to get answers (correct). :) --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 108 Thu Oct 29, 1992 C.FLUEGEL [Curt] at 00:15 EST Brad : Who, if anyone, is handling repairs for the old Digital Master? I work at Guitar Center and we have one sitting around that no one is willing to fix. If you know, please mail me at CFLUEGEL or call me at work. 612-631- 9424 Curt in Keys... Fax 612-631-9479 Also, do you have a demo for SMPTE platnum?? If so, we would love it. Curt ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 109 Thu Oct 29, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 01:45 EST BAREFOOT - Well, the main thing is that the DSP isn't used for any direct-to- disk recording functions, unless you want to process the data through some type of filter before writing the data to disk or audio playback. The new BLiTTER is involved in disk drive I/O and the hard drive has direct memory access, so conceivably data can be taken from the hard drive and processed through the SDMA for playback while audio is simultaneously recorded by the SDMA and written to the hard drive with no (or at least very minimal) CPU time. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 110 Thu Oct 29, 1992 BAREFOOT [Brad Cox] at 13:42 EST Curt and any other Hybrid direct to disk recorder users. I'm doing repairs on Digital Masters, and ADAP II and supporting them here on Genie. Come on over to the Barefoot or one of the ADAP topics and "we talk, no?"] Also, there will be a demo version of SMPTETrack and EditTrack Platinum soon after their release. Kevin- Sometimes I forget where I am, but when I see a discussion I just have to chime in! Steve- I'm droolin'. If the hard drive has the ability to read and write under its own direction for however many minutes you'd want to record then I'm really optimistic that some "triple threat" sequencing, sample playback and record/play audio software is possible. -Brad @ BAREFOOT ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 111 Thu Oct 29, 1992 MYECK.WATERS [myeck] at 21:14 EST >O-ZONE [Flakes] at 19:35 EST >Ummm... I have a button I got at the Hartford WAACE ... Flakes, I know the WAACE bulletins were everywhere but the Hartford show, believe it or not, was NOT a WAACE event. :^) ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 112 Thu Oct 29, 1992 C.FLUEGEL [Curt] at 23:14 EST Brad... I will try to give you a call about the Digital Master, and EditTrack stuff... I haven't talked to our buyer in over a week, im hoping to become an official dealer for you guys, but they're unhappy about the whole Digital Master thing... Cuert ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 113 Sun Nov 01, 1992 J.BRENNER1 [John] at 20:27 EST Hmmmm.... everything was scrolling so fast at 2400 BPS . I am capturing tons of posts to read them off line later. Was this about the Falcon or BareFoot software. I guess this should be interesting as I am interested in both. REAL QUESTION= Can I buy a FALCON tomorow if I want one? John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 114 Mon Nov 02, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 02:33 EST J.BRENNER1 - No, you'll have to wait at least a month or so to buy a Falcon030. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 115 Mon Nov 02, 1992 J.BRENNER1 [John] at 03:41 EST S.JOHNSON10 > That's too bad...and scary since months sometimes become years with Atari. I'm verry happy with what my system has given me over the years. Question is will it keep doing so? Competitors products are looking better and better to me. Mind you the price is not looking good. John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 116 Mon Nov 02, 1992 BAREFOOT [Brad Cox] at 14:49 EST Curt- I'm sorry to hear that they are unhappy about Digital Master. I certainly hope that that doesn't extend to Barefoot and our products. We have gone way out of our way to help everyone with a Digital Master, unless I am misreading your message it sounds like Guitar Center blames us for "the whole Digital Master thing". If this discussion is going to stay online, let's move to Barefoot Topic 35 Cat 4, also do call me so we can get your unit straightened out. Thanks, Curt! John- You drop in over to the Barefoot topic too, 'cause this IS supposed to be about the Falcon! Welcome and talk to you soon! -Brad @ BAREFOOT ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 117 Mon Nov 02, 1992 J.BRENNER1 [John] at 18:09 EST S.JOHNSON10 - I just finished reading months of posts and your name came up a lot on very informative posts. How is it you know so much on Atari and related products. I guess this will sound like a silly question to those who know you. What I'm getting at is, are you related to Atari in a professional way?, or do you just read a lot ;-) I read the Sept. press release on the Falcon and I think I'm sold. I don't really care if runs my existing software or not. I will keep my existing system to run SMPTEtrack and do graphics with Falcon. If it is really available in a month or two, I'll get one. Atari Canada no longer exist so I guess it's going to have to be Mail Order. It is affordable enough to take a chance on devolopers deciding to use the bird. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 118 Tue Nov 03, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 02:23 EST J.BRENNER1 - I just read a lot and hear directly from others who are 'in the industry.' ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 119 Sat Dec 19, 1992 S.BURTCHAELL at 20:00 EST People are talking about the Falcon in New Orleans because a few Atari enthusiats are spreading the good news. But lately there's not much to go on as for as latest developments. Any rumors or info on release? Merry Christmas ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 120 Mon Dec 21, 1992 S.JOHNSON10 [Steve] at 01:09 EST S.BURTCHAELL - Latest word is not to expect F030 shipments to U.S. dealers (in quantity) until Spring '93. U.S. dealers MAY get SOME F030's in within the next month, though. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 121 Wed Feb 17, 1993 S.BURTCHAELL at 00:23 EST Heard the Falcon will be shipping in 30 days! And from a reliable source. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 122 Tue Mar 09, 1993 PEAVEY [Larry M] at 21:01 EST Hey dudes! Got to check out a FALCON today. I get to take it home this weekend and find out what it can really do! FYI Larry M ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 123 Wed Mar 10, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 00:31 EST How did you get so lucky Larry? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 124 Wed Mar 10, 1993 PEAVEY [Larry M] at 23:44 EST David, Well, Atari was nice enough to send one to Peavey. Can't wait to checkit out this weekend! Later... LM ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 125 Thu Mar 11, 1993 W.DEAN4 [D'noski] at 19:38 EST Hey Larry, Are there any software Engineer's that could create a program that would support your SMIDI and the Falcon's SCSI 2 port...Just a though D'noski ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 126 Sat Mar 13, 1993 PEAVEY [Larry M] at 00:02 EST D'noski, Good question! I need to know more about SCSI 2. Surely, there is a conversion device available somewhere! I'll check with our engineers and see what the possibilities are! It has been interesting to see which of my programs will run on the Falcon. Notator-Nope, Mastertraks-Yep, Super Librarian-Yep, Band in a box-sort of KCS-sort of (sort of=grapics are messed up). Several Falcon programs run fine on my STE. It's a bummer the two track digital recording software wasn't with it. BTW, aladdin runs fine. Later... Larry M ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 127 Sat Mar 13, 1993 M.GATES4 [MINDY/STEVEJ] at 13:08 EST Notator won't run, eh? I take it that this won't even boot, or otherwise darmatically bombs, yes? Booooooooooo! Oh, well.... ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 128 Sat Mar 13, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 13:41 EST I can't seem to get this question answered over in the Atari RT so I'll give it a try here: Can anyone verify whether the shareware program MIDI MUSIC MAKER will work in the background via Multitos so that you can have music playing in the background while you're working in a word processor or using Aladdin, etc.? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 129 Sat Mar 13, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 14:43 EST Larry M, Are you running KCS Omega? What's wring with the graphics. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 130 Sat Mar 13, 1993 B.STOREY [Billy B.] at 15:19 EST Larry M, Can you try Edit Track II and Encore v.3.5? Bill P.s. What works on STE? P.p.s. I am not sure what you are looking for, but there are adaptor cables available to run SCSI 2 drives direct to Falcon. No Host adaptors needed. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 131 Sun Mar 14, 1993 D.PHILLIPS24 [Darcy] at 13:33 EST David- I understand that the Falcon can do MIDI sequencing and direct to disk audio recording _simultaneously_, in fact, I am planning to buy it based on that capability. So I would think that what you are talking about is well within it's capabilities. The only trick, of course, is that two programs can't access your hard drive at the same time. Darcy ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 132 Sun Mar 14, 1993 R.YACKEL [Rick] at 16:45 EST Hi All. I read with interest in the April Electronic Musician that the Falcon won't record at 44.1 and 48KHz with out the extra hardware. I was a little dissapointed, since I was hoping to use the Falcon to do some recording and then perhaps in the future, get one of those boxes that let you go to 8 Track. My original idea was to go with an ADAT and use the Falcon to do Editing back and forth in the digital domain. Save lots on the HardDrive costs and Backup Media. I don't know if that is still feasible now. I hope that there will be a third party inexpensive box that will allow simple stereo recording at the standard rates and if it would interface directly with the ADAT, that would be a bonus. RICK ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 133 Sun Mar 14, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 23:00 EST Darcy, my question has more to do with Multitos than with the Falcon per se. I have read that Multitos can be a bit picky as to which programs it works with, especially if those programs haven't been specifically updated with Multitos in mind. There is a very popular song player for the ST called Midi Music Maker which plays practically every type of song file ever devised for any computer and can randomly select among all different file types in jukebox mode. All I'm trying to find out is whether Midi Music Maker is Multitos compatible. Since there are now at least a few midi users in possession of demo or developer Falcons with Multitos I am asking for some such person to kindly test Midi Music Maker as a background jukebox and report back. Thanks. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 134 Sun Mar 14, 1993 PEAVEY [Larry M] at 23:47 EST DAVID-I would be happy to test MIDI Music Maker but....the Falcon I'm working with is not equiped with Multi-TOS. The units shipped to the stores should have it. (My Falcon does not have D2D or Multi-TOS.... kind of like leading a thirsty horse to water but not letting him drink) MINDY/STEVE-Indeed, Notator 3.1 will need an upgrade to work on the F. FLAKES-I used KCS 4.0 & it now works perfectly. The Falcon has a Set Video mode that allows you to set the screen resolution to emulate ST low, med., and high. This corrected the graphics! BILL-I don't have Edit Track II, but I did try an Edit Track demo disk and had no luck. I don't have Encore either. The Falcon software that I ran on my STE was nothing significant-a game, calender/daytimer, calculator, etc. TO ALL: according to March 93 EM.....Dr. T is going to upgrade KCS Omega, Tiger Cub, and Phantom to work on the F. E-Magic intends to introduce Notator Logic. Steinberg-Jones' says Cubase is compatible now. All bareft. software (EZ score, SMPTETrack plat.) is supposed to be compatible. For specifics, visit the software topics and ask. BE SURE & PICK UP THE MARCH 93 ISSUE of ELECTRONIC MUSICIAN!!!! Later... Larry M ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 135 Mon Mar 15, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 09:25 EST Rick, from what I've heard it is _possible_ to program the Falcon's DSP chip to allow recording at 44.1 or 48 KHz instead of its default speed (50 Khz?). If and when someone writes the software you may be able to use your ADAT without additional hardware. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 136 Mon Mar 15, 1993 K.HOUSER [M.Q. Def] at 19:05 EST David, If I have time to d'load the MidiMusic Maker program from the ST RT I'll try to test it with MultiTOS. --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 137 Mon Mar 15, 1993 SAM-RAPP [Sam] at 22:10 EST Rick, the ONLY requirement for the Falcon to use 44.1 & 48 khz is the addition of an external clock. This plugs into the Falcon's DSP port (Pin 26, to be exact) and should cost no more than $25 or $30 bucks. You could probably make your own for $10 bucks. Then, your software should support the use of an external clock. Most should, as it is provided for by all the standard OS calls. ---------_> Sam ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 138 Mon Mar 15, 1993 W.DEAN4 [D'noski] at 23:21 EST Thanks for the 411 Larry.....D'noski ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 139 Tue Mar 16, 1993 BAREFOOT [Brad Cox] at 21:07 EST The thing to remember about the Falcon Sample rates is that 50kHz is _better_ than 44.1 or 48. The only reason you need those exact rates is to use an external digital interface, and the digital interface will supply those rates. The only possibility for sadness here is if you record files at 50 kHz before you have a digital interface and then want to play those files out digitally later; that would require a sample rate conversion. EditTrack Platinum runs on the Falcon, as do all Barefoot Software products. Contact us for upgrade info. We are currently working on a version of our sequencer that will allow simultaneous hard disk recording with D2D Systems programs for the Falcon. Watch the Barefoot cat. 35 for more info soon. Brad @ BAREFOOT ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 140 Tue Mar 16, 1993 M.GATES4 [MINDY/STEVEJ] at 22:14 EST Darcy, et al, In order to do HD recording you'll need mucho HD... For our SoundTools II dat premastering rig we use 2 drives, the Mac's internal 80 meg and an external 1.2gigabyte drive. See the HD recording topic here for the prices of the peripheral hdwr for the Falcon. It _is_ only the first out... and cheap when you understand that it cost us $11K for our STools II & Mac. Even digidesign will tellyou that the really cool way, fast and accurate, to record to HD is to have a separate drive for each track! Still, consider 10 meg a minute, stereo, for music recording. I, too, think a Falcon and ADAT will be a FINE match, and that trans- fers will be pretty easy. But first we play, "Who's the clock?" since the Falcon needs an external to run 44.1/48kHz.... BTW, the speed of the STools system, and it's hunger for memory come from the way it writes UNDO files each time you do a major editing operatio ...it's wonderful to have all of that there in case I screw up. the Falcon will need some similar routine from its software. Now we just have to see who writes what for it... How far can it go? Pretty bloody far, I think! StevieJ ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 141 Wed Mar 17, 1993 K.HOUSER [M.Q. Def] at 01:05 EST Sample rate conversion can be done on the fly with the DSP. With the right AlGo Rhythm the sample rate conversion will be of very good quality. 50KHz isn't a problem. --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 142 Thu Mar 18, 1993 B.STOREY [Billy B.] at 08:07 EST Brad, does Edit Track II run on the Falcon? (The one that was fixed for the STe?) Does anyone know if Encore 3.5 will run on the Falcon? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 143 Thu Apr 08, 1993 BAREFOOT [Brad Cox] at 16:38 EDT B.Storey- EditTrack and SMPTETrack Platinum are required to run on the Falcon. Edit Track II won't run on the Falcon, nor will Edit Track Gold or the corresponding versions of SMPTETrack. These programs can be upgraded to Platinum versions. Brad @ BAREFOOT ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 144 Fri Apr 09, 1993 B.STOREY [Billy B.] at 14:50 EDT Brad, thanks! Next question: $?? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 145 Tue Apr 13, 1993 STEVE-J [FunkPopARoll] at 02:08 EDT In case nobody here has heard, Bob Brodie just announced over in the Atari ST RT conference that Falcon030's will begin shipping to U.S. dealers THIS WEEK! He said Atari's receiving shipments of them now and all they need to do is some Q/A testing (a few days) before they're shipped to dealers. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 146 Sat Apr 17, 1993 C.FLUEGEL [Curt] at 00:27 EDT yes, and they weren't kidding... mines on order to our store red label due in Wednesday at the latest!! Curt ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 147 Mon Apr 19, 1993 M.GATES4 [MINDY/STEVEJ] at 20:19 EDT The folks on the AtariNet have been VERY disappointed in the Falcon's delay... and Atari Corp behavior in general. Lots of grumble and gloom. Glad to hear at least a POSITIVE rumor! StevieJ ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 148 Sat Apr 24, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 02:48 EDT The Falcon has touched down at my dealer, and my credit card has been deeply touched as well. The dealer promises that the customer orders will be filled with a shipment in approx. ten days. Yee-hah! ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 149 Sat Apr 24, 1993 K.HOUSER [M.Q. Def] at 10:38 EDT So what is the actual price on a 4/65 unit? $1299 or $1399? --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 150 Sat Apr 24, 1993 M.GATES4 [MINDY/STEVEJ] at 20:29 EDT eric! Congrats! We're Watching! Lettuce Know? SteveV ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 151 Sun Apr 25, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 11:35 EDT > So what is the actual price on a 4/65 unit? $1299 or $1399? I think it lists for $1299, but I paid $1199. I was so excited to actually be able to order the machine that I forgot to haggle. I also saw Musicom from Compo running. Audio Fun Machine has much flashier graphics, but Musicom looks like it will be quite useful with it's hard disk recording, harmonizing, delay and "Karaoke" functions. BTW--the cut down version of D2D didn't arrive with the demo unit, but atari works, speedo gdos, calappt, talking clock, audio fun machine and MultiTos did. I got to play around with the demo unit on Saturday. This will be the first Atari computer that I've ever owned so don't ask me to compare it with STe's and Megas, but it looks like a great machine. Get a plain old VGA monitor and it looks like you'll be backwards compatable with ST low, medium and high resolutions and able to take advantage of all the other falcon color modes. According to the dealer it does not require a Multi- sync. Yes, older Atari monitors will work with the Falcon, but you miss out on your graphics fun. I tried running my Hotz translator software in St med and St High modes and it seemed to work just fine--I didn't have time to fully explore this program, but it boots and runs without sweat. Hopefully the TOS software catalog from Atari will be accurate for the compatibility of other MIDI programs as well. Now if we could just get Atari to sell enough falcons and Digidesign to make a Pro Tools A/D converter for it, we'll be in business Eric ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 152 Sun Apr 25, 1993 AEO.5 [Ed Krimen] at 14:45 EDT Eric, Great to hear you've ordered your Falcon! I hope you get it soon. >Get a plain old VGA monitor and it looks like you'll be backwards compatable >with ST low, medium and high resolutions and able to take advantage of all the >other falcon color modes. According to the dealer it does not require a Multi- >sync. Yes, older Atari monitors will work with the Falcon, but you miss out >on your graphics fun. I'm not sure what you mean exactly by "graphics fun", but the SC1224 (Atari's color monitor) will show the Falcon's 65,000 colors just fine. It will also run in 640x480 mode, but you'll see the flicker. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 153 Sun Apr 25, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 15:47 EDT Ed, Thanks for the correction. Eric P.S. Previous to the Falcon, the TT was the only demo machine that my dealer had. Somehow it's had to get used to centered display on the monitor. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 154 Sun Apr 25, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 15:51 EDT Apparently it's also "had" to get used to typing "hard" on the floor. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 155 Mon Apr 26, 1993 STEVE-J [FunkPopARoll] at 02:40 EDT K.HOUSER - The ACTUAL retail price of the 4/65 model is $1299. At the current time, that seems to be the only price Atari dealers are quoting to customers as well. Maybe they'll wait until the people who NEED a Falcon030 (and don't care about the price) buy one for full MSRP before discounting it off retail. The new dealer agreement DOES prevent dealers from advertising 'sale' prices, though. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 156 Mon Apr 26, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 09:50 EDT Steve-J, now I don't feel so bad about not haggling. My dealer took $100 off the price of the Falcon automatically--guess it pays to buy locally. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 157 Mon Apr 26, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 21:22 EDT Eric, have you actually received a personal (non-dealer demo) Falcon of your own? If so you are the very first I've heard of. Where did you buy yours? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 158 Tue Apr 27, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 01:10 EDT David, Perhaps I was unclear, I've been able to pay for one (which is an achievement in itself) but I have not yet recieved one. About two weeks ago Bob Brodie announced that a shipment of Falcons had arrived in Sunnyvale. Atariologists, made up largely of retired Kremlinologists, have since pieced together snippits of information and misinformation to ascertain that this shipment was of approximately 180 dealer demo units. It is further rumored that another shipment of 2000 Falcons will arrive two to three weeks later. These will be the first Falcons to reach consumers in the U.S. Prior to this, most dealers would not accept paid orders from customers. Now they are beginning to, a positive sign--linked to delivery of the first dealer Falcons. According to my dealer his order has been faxed to Sunnyvale this morning, He's hoping that Atari can ship within in ten days. Now if you want a Falcon in your hands pronto, and cost is no object, it has been reported in the Atari RT BBS that Micro Computer Depot has some Falcons that it is finally willing to part with. According to one poster, it also has access to two piece Falcons--a beast rumored to be the "consumer" model for in England, however Bob Brodie adamantly states that for now the ST case Falcon _is_ the US Falcon. See Cat 14/topic 41? in the Atari RT for more info. My best guess is that now it's a bit of a crapshoot. Who gets the Falcons depends on how Atari allocates to its dealers, your guess is as good as mine. But when my dealer started taking orders I got in line quicker than you can say "Pro Linea." Time will tell the wisdom of this move. Eric ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 159 Tue Apr 27, 1993 STEVE-J [FunkPopARoll] at 01:17 EDT Also, you can't use 640x400 16-bit True Color (or overscan) on a plain old VGA monitor (which is why some of us are interested in a Multisync -- so we don't have to have both a VGA monitor AND an ST RGB monitor to use all the graphics modes). Of course, if you're just going to be playing games or viewing pictures in that resolution, then you could just hook it up to your TV (and readjust your TV's tint/color/etc. settings!). ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 160 Tue Apr 27, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 14:11 EDT To my knowledge, there is no such thing as a two-piece Falcon -- anywhere in the world. As a registered developer, I am not allowed to disclose information about new Atari products that I know of. But there's nothing keeping me from stating emphatically that I have no knowledge of any completed 2-piece Falcon machines even as prototypes. I have heard rumors that Atari is planning on listening to the public outcry and develop such a machine but rumors are rumors. I'm not stating the above as fact -- only as what I know and assume to be fact. John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 161 Tue Apr 27, 1993 W.DEAN4 [D'noski] at 19:09 EDT CodeHead How about you guys giving a go at 16 bit sample editing for the Falcon 030, with capabilities like SCSI transfers and support for several samplers like Akai,Alesis,Ensoniq ,Kurzweil,Korg and Roland ...D'noski ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 162 Tue Apr 27, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 20:52 EDT FunkPopARoll, The Falcon that is being demoed at my dealer is attached to a multiscan monitor--and overscan didn't seem to kick in. Of course, theres a 99% possibility we didn't know what the heck we were doing with True-Paint and the color menu, but the monitor acted as if it were a plain old VGA. Hmmm, something I'll have to investigate. Codehead I hope you're right. The last thing we need is a dorky pizza box cased Falcon- -as was the report from England. For a company like Atari, it helps to be a little different--rather than following the pack. Wouldn't it be great if the next Falcon had key ports that were accessable from the front of the unit (video, audio, etc)--I know I'm going to do a lot of connecting and disconnecting cables with a computer like the Falcon--let's make it easier Atari. Eric ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 163 Wed Apr 28, 1993 STEVE-J [FunkPopARoll] at 03:18 EDT You need a ST-to-Multisync adaptor along with the ST monitor adaptor to hook up a multisync to a Falcon030 and get overscan. If you're using the VGA adaptor, all you'll get is VGA. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 164 Wed Apr 28, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 23:31 EDT The Falcon saga continues... I talked to my dealer today and got some bad news. Atari says to expect to wait four weeks for the Falcons he had ordered first thing Monday morning... And Atari has never been known to offer worst case scenarios. Well I knew it was a crap shoot. --Waiting in Salt Lake ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 165 Thu Apr 29, 1993 B.STOREY [Billy B.] at 08:26 EDT Re 2-piece Atari Falcons: It seems likely that Atari will follow the same pattern they did with the ST; Make a 1-piece unit, see if it sells, then go for the 2-piece unit as in the MEGA ST's. (040, also!) Probably RSN. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 166 Thu Apr 29, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 09:57 EDT I can't remember Bob Brodie's exact words, but I think he said something to the effect of that being a logical progression--but don't expect to see that right after the release of the Falcon. They want to sell a few Falcons first. I'm really starting to hate the execu-toy design of most computer cases. Putting all the the cabling and connections at the rear of the case makes aesthetic sense, but it gets to be a pain. One good/inexpensive solution might be to do what a lot of synthesizer makers do--print lables for the ports on the top edge of the case so that you can read the cable locations from the front as well. Are you listening Atari? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 167 Thu Apr 29, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:05 EDT D'noski, Watch for a press release tomorrow. It's not a sample editor, but an 8-track digital recorder. John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 168 Thu Apr 29, 1993 D.SCHWINN [DAVE] at 11:32 EDT Maybe 2 piece means broken... ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 169 Fri Apr 30, 1993 STEVE-J [FunkPopARoll] at 00:22 EDT D.JOHNSON143 - Well, that's what your dealer gets for waiting until NOW to order them! ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 170 Fri Apr 30, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 08:41 EDT Steve-J Hmmm. So do you know of any dealers who were willing to take/make orders before they recieved their demo units? I thought that was a no-no. Oh well, Salt Lake and Orem really aren't computing towns. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 171 Sun May 02, 1993 STEVE-J [FunkPopARoll] at 02:29 EDT D.JOHNSON143 - Sure! Computer STudio (Asheville, NC), Toad Computers (Maryland), and Micro Computer Depot (Columbia, SC) to name a few! The dealers that put in orders several months ago will be getting all the first few shipments of machines. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 172 Sun May 02, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 11:25 EDT Steve-J - So if the mail order outlets are the only ones who can get the product, why support a local dealer? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 173 Sun May 02, 1993 B.SUSLOVIC [Brad] at 15:30 EDT Eric, you cant mail order the falcon. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 174 Sun May 02, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 18:02 EDT Brad, I think the actual term is catch 030 ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 175 Sun May 02, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 18:57 EDT Steve-J, I think I should apologize. Let me make it clear that I don't want to step on your toes here. The only reason I'm posting what my experiences/frustrations are with ordering a Falcon right now is so that others can learn from it. I was unaware that either Toad or Computer Studio were actually taking orders-- I thought they were assembling waiting lists. I had called both Toad and Computer Studio. Niether one would accept a deposit for the Falcon. My local dealer wouldn't either--he only started taking orders/money after the Falcon demo units arrived. BTW. He claims that Atari will only accept orders for the Falcon payment up front. Falcon frenzy taking control of me at the time stopped me from considering whether or not this was actually true/sane/or ethical. Live and learn, as I almost never say. Brad, I've read a few posts on the Atari RT and I'm still not clear whether or not the Falcon dealer agreement frowns on mail order. With Atari's current position in the marketplace, I don't think they can risk losing major dealer by not allowing them to do mail order. I have paid for a Falcon from a local dealer. Right now I am just going to sit tight and wait--then see what happens. With the problems that a friend of mine has been experiencing with his Macintosh, and the difficulties my father had with his Clone 386, I would rather work through a local dealer. Eric ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 176 Tue May 04, 1993 STEVE-J [FunkPopARoll] at 01:28 EDT D.JOHNSON143 - That's just it! The mail order outlets WON'T BE ABLE TO GET THE PRODUCT. (by the way, I'm not YELLING at YOU, just EMPHASISING for ALL) I didn't say that Toad, Computer STudio, etc. were taking orders for Falcon030's. I just said that they had committed to Atari quite some time ago to order Falcon030's, so THEY are going to get the first ones that come in. If a dealer waiting until just this past week to send in their ADA and order F030's from Atari, then quite understandably that dealer may have to wait longer to get them. The new dealer agreement doesn't necessarily frown simply on the idea of mail order -- it just frowns on those whose ONLY BUSINESS is mail order (dealers who don't have storefronts and could pretty much ship machines out of their basements, thus not needing the overhead that real dealers with storefronts do). Some of Atari's most avid dealers (e.g. Computer STudio, Toad, etc.) ASKED Atari to put these stipulations into their new dealer agreement. The agreement just states that dealers have to get permission from Atari in order to mail order Falcon030's. People who live 500 miles from a dealer WILL be able to order them by mail, but people who live 10 miles from one may NOT be able to. Atari did this to try to strengthen local dealers and customer support. B.SUSLOVIC - You CAN mail order a Falcon030 from a qualified dealer, but only if that dealer has permission from Atari. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 177 Tue May 04, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 10:34 EDT Steve-J In fairness to my dealer, he obviously did sign the Atari dealer agreement previous to last week--thus his receipt of a demo unit, etc. And I believe that I saw posted on the Atari ST RT that Brodie had been quoted in AEO as saying consumer machines were to appear in three weeks now--which gibes with what my dealer said Atari had promised him. (I'll download AEO tonight and make sure) It's pretty clear to me why most Atari dealers have refused to take/make orders until the Demo units--so they would have at least an inkling of when their machines might arrive. Imagine if a dealer had taken a deposit back in September. What a nightmare from a customer service standpoint. Personally, I'll be happy if the customer units hit in three weeks-- even if they go to Sheldon or Toad first. But I wouldn't mind if my dealer recieved his too. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 178 Thu May 06, 1993 M.GATES4 [MINDY/STEVEJ] at 19:29 EDT Toad placed an ad in the AtariNet Commercial ads area that shows up on the Bloomington Atari ST BBS. This appeared in March and included a form which promised an 'early bird' discount for deposits placed for Falcons. When I queried Toad on their own BBS, they denied posting such an ad... not a very credible denial when it gets to the backwaters of Indiana... FWIW, more Falcon lore. Atari, what an adventure! Steve V. Johnson ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 179 Tue May 11, 1993 P.THOMPSON19 [Paul] at 22:15 EDT The Falcon sounds great. Will it run none, some, or all of the ST software that's out there? Paul ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 180 Wed May 12, 1993 B.SUSLOVIC [Brad] at 00:28 EDT Steve, Atari will only grant a dealer permission to mail order, if that dealer is the closest one to you. If not Atari will choose one to deal with you. I'm in the top 20 on Toads waiting list, and now won't be able to get a machine from them cause there's a dealer between here and there, that I have to drive 250 miles to. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 182 Wed May 12, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 01:46 EDT Paul, Er, um, yes and no... If I remember correctly, Darryl Still, UK Marketing Manager for Atari, claimed that 71% of all serious ST software would run on the Falcon. The Falcon is an evolutionary machine with a lot of new hardware. Atari tried to make the Falcon backwards compatible with the majority of ST software by including ST resolution modes. But certain software packages make creative calls that weren't anticipated by Atari. Seems like most problems occur with graphics intensive programs where there is an emphasis on screen speed. Some games won't run. Notator at present will not run, though a Falcon compatible version is on the way. Cubase, and many other music packages, will run just fine. Hope that helps, Eric ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 183 Wed May 12, 1993 STEVE-J [FunkPopARoll] at 02:03 EDT P.THOMPSON19 - The only things the Falcon030 should have problems with is ST game software. As usual, properly written ST software should run fine on it. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 184 Wed May 12, 1993 R.SNYDER6 [Roger S.] at 18:08 EDT I think that was 71.456373282928% of exsisting Atari software. I think what runs will change whether you use MTOS or not. Roger S. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 185 Wed May 12, 1993 BAREFOOT [Brad Cox] at 19:13 EDT P.THOMPSON A lot of software will run on the Falcon without modification. Barefoot's EZ Score Plus works fine. The things we found were problematic were instances where the program has to "talk" directly to hardware, as opposed to calling built-in GEM routines that normally handle talking to that hardware and therefore account for the differences between the ST series and the Falcon. An example of this is our SMPTE Reader in SMPTETrack, which uses the serial port. In order to make it Falcon compatible, we had to write new routines to handle input from the new serial port chip in Falcon. Had we been able to use the built in operating system to do this, it would have translated to the new hardware just fine (we can't due to the tight timing restrictions required). A program that does all of it's hardware I/O through the operating system dosen't need to know about changes in hardware- the operating system takes care of the translation. And yes, all Barefoot Software products except Hybriswitch are Falcon compatible: SmpteTrack and EditTrack Platinum, GenEdit and EZ Score Plus. Brad @ BAREFOOT ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 186 Wed May 12, 1993 K.RICHARD2 [RIC] at 21:31 EDT ..The Falcon is supposed to be more compatible than the TT030 was Bondservant(or so they say) ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 187 Wed May 12, 1993 D.SCHWINN [DAVE] at 23:03 EDT According to Atari, it can use almost all of the current software. I havn't seen one yet so I can't verify this. Many ST programs were not written in a "Politicaly Correct" manner. That is, the programmer didn't plan ahead to make the programs run in a multi-tasking environment. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 188 Thu May 13, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 03:57 EDT Brad, I don't think that HybriSwitch will ever be Falcon-compatible (I have inside information). :^) But I've heard that there will be a new product from Barefoot called FootSwitch that will look suspiciously like HybriSwitch (but without the bad vibes). John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 189 Thu May 13, 1993 B.STOREY [Billy B.] at 07:55 EDT The solution to programs that won't run may be to keep the old computer for those programs, and use the Falcon for the new stuff. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 190 Thu May 13, 1993 BAREFOOT [Brad Cox] at 14:41 EDT Well John, you old Cat-Letter-Outta-the-Bagger you! ;^) Wonder how much it'll cost to licence "Good Vibrations" for our national prime time ad campaign? Brad @ BAREFOOT ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 191 Sun May 16, 1993 P.THOMPSON19 [Paul] at 10:10 EDT Thanks to everyone for all the answers. I'm just getting back into music fter a lot of years and will have lots more questions. There seems to be lots of good midi software around. Now all I need is a controller and a clue. Paul ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 192 Sun May 16, 1993 JAMES-GRUNKE [ Sonny] at 18:51 EDT Need to get those Falcons rolling bud! :) --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 194 Mon May 17, 1993 JAMES-GRUNKE [ Sonny] at 02:11 EDT Ok Ok, I admit I'm a lurker... ;) Falcons rollin' in this week. I'll let ya know when their in the warehous e... Thanks for your support folks. James ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 195 Tue May 18, 1993 STEVE-J [FunkPopARoll] at 04:53 EDT Atari's making arrangements for ANOTHER factory to produce Falcon machines. Also, latest word is that Atari has a large shipment of F030's coming in any day now with an even larger shipment coming in the following week. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 196 Thu May 20, 1993 C.FLUEGEL [Curt] at 00:21 EDT well the Falcons are in customs (I thought I would say it for James since he is kinda a on ag ain off again lurker type).. hopefully will be at Atari Thursday, or Friday for QA and be shipped off, too, CUSTOMERS this time.. what a concept.. Curt now start thinking software... ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 197 Fri May 21, 1993 JAMES-GRUNKE [ Sonny] at 13:31 EDT they're here... :) ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 198 Sat May 22, 1993 M.GATES4 [MINDY/STEVEJ] at 12:52 EDT Sonny, Curt, et al... Fellas, I bin thinkin' software for toooooo long now! Just show me some of those 'birds' in the field, humming along and not breakin' or complainin' for about, oh, a year or so, and I'll be a believer (again). SteveV p.s. PLEASE?! ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 199 Sat May 22, 1993 B.STOREY [Billy B.] at 16:01 EDT *click* HOORAY! *click* ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 200 Sat May 22, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 17:46 EDT James (or should I call you Sonny?) now that the Falcons are in Sunnyvale, when do you predict they will leave Sunnyvale and enter the stream of commerce? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 201 Sun May 23, 1993 R.THUROW at 06:09 EDT Saw a real Falcon at MusicMakers in Austin. They had one for demo purposes. Looked solid. Keyboard felt much like the one on my mega 2, much better than the original mushy ST. Multi TOS was cool. Surprised that it didnt seem much faster than my stock mega. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 202 Fri May 28, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 00:28 EDT Hey kids-- According to B.Dewitt in the Atari RT, Falcon consumer units have arrived in Salt Lake City at J & J computers in Murry. Mine should be #2 of the three that came in--so guess where I'll be first thing in the morning. Eric-- ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 203 Sat May 29, 1993 JAMES-GRUNKE [ Sonny] at 02:47 EDT David, I guess the cats out'a da' bag. :) I saw your message earlier but I strongly feel predicting is for psychics. It was all up to UPS at that point :) Eric, Congrats! Have a blast with yer F030, I am :) I'd love to hear demos from new owners. No promises, but cool things could happen :) Thanks, James ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 204 Sat May 29, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 22:26 EDT James, Unfortunately B. Dewitt was mistaken, either that or the other two Falcon's are currently roosting on the roof of the Hotel Utah. (Sorry, inside the Zion curtain joke) According to Neal at J & J's, he told Nerd Perfect (B.Dewitt's GEnie handle) that three Falcons were confirmed shipped by Atari and that he _expected_ all three to arrive this week. Evidently U.P.S. gets custody of my Falcon during the Memorial day weekend. Darn. However, Neal was kind enough to offer me the use of the store's demo Falcon for the weekend. That's what I get for reading posts on GEnie--Hmmm, now if only my Falcon could be like David Fairweather's... --No Falcon and still smiling, Eric Blair ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 205 Mon May 31, 1993 B.SUSLOVIC [Brad] at 20:27 EDT If anyone hasn't been over to the ATARI RT lately, Bob Brodie announced that 80meg hard drives are going into all the F030s, not just the most recent ones. pleasant little surprise ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 206 Thu Jun 03, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 00:27 EDT James Grunke-- A couple more Falcon's came in today at J & J's Computers in SLC--so now I really am smiling. All-- I'm glad I didn't get the first unit--that had a 65 meg HD. Mine has a 84 meg Conner in it. Thanks Atari. Also checked the TOS version and it _is_ 4.04. Looks like the big bird really is go! Eric ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 207 Wed Jun 16, 1993 SAM-RAPP [Sam] at 02:17 EDT Well. I got my Falcon saturday. I am quite impressed!!!! -----------> Sam ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 208 Wed Jun 16, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 09:56 EDT Hope you weren't planning to use Band-in-a-Box on it, it doesn't work! James Grunke, if you're lurking, I suggest you get on the phone to Peter Gannon at PG Music in Canada (416)528-2368 and implore him to fix BIB. BIB is VERY important to many Atari-midiphiles and I don't see how the Falcon can truly be a musician's computer without BIB. I've already called PG Music but they didn't seem too concerned with my plight. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 209 Wed Jun 16, 1993 D.AIMONE [David A.] at 20:38 EDT I've got a stupid (perhaps) question: As an owner of an Atari Mega 2 ST, and a user of many Macs from SE's to PowerBooks to Quadras at work--- What's the big deal over a NEW Atari that uses a 68030 processor? On the Mac, the 68030 is already on its way towards extinction, being replaced by the 68040's in the Quadra and Centris. Is Atari about 4 or 5 years behind, or is there something I'm missing (besides the built in digital audio)? Is it the price? Really don't understand. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 210 Wed Jun 16, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 21:39 EDT The "big deal" isn't over the 68030 chip -- the Atari TT has had that fo quite a while -- in fact I believe the TT even uses a 68040 now -- no the "big deal" is over the DSP Digital Signal Processor Chip combined with the Falcon's built- in direct-to-disk better than CD sound quality recording capabilities. With the Falcon's hardware and appropriate software which will hopefully be here very soon, home 8 track direct to disk digital recording and editing with digital special FX combined with Midi sequencing, and midi-driven sampled sounds will be a reasonably priced (under $2,000) reality. That is a big deal to me. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 211 Wed Jun 16, 1993 K.HOUSER [TheGodFather] at 21:44 EDT The DSP, the Audio, the Blitter, the DSP, the Audio, the DSP. --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 212 Wed Jun 16, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 23:19 EDT David: What you should be asking is "What is wrong with Macs that requires a 68030 to do something that an Atari can do with a 68000?" The answer: Mac System Software. All that extra froo-froo that makes a Mac completely unweildly and less user-friendly than a ST also makes it run slower. Why else is a 68030 LCII only as fast as my 68000 MegaSTE? (Trust me. I use both every day, and there's NO functional speed difference) ~Chris ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 213 Wed Jun 16, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 23:23 EDT No, no 040 in the TT. THat surely would be saved for the "Falcon 040" which, apparently is already a teademarked name. It's just a matter of when. ~Chris ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 214 Thu Jun 17, 1993 B.WILLIS3 [Bill] at 18:53 EDT David, I think it's unlikely that you're going to able to get a Falcon, a suitable monitor, the 8-channel audio interface, and a hard disk large enough for multitrack direct-to-disk work for under $2000. It's still going to be a great value, but I think some folks are understating the amount of peripheral stuff needed to get a Falcon 8-track setup running. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 215 Fri Jun 18, 1993 W.COLUMBUS [BLAZE] at 22:04 EDT I am curious on th S/N Ratio on the Falcon case in point Sound blaster 44.1khz sample rate and 68db s/n ratio hardly cd quality !! Does any one have a comment on the true condition of the analog to digital quality of this thang ? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 216 Fri Jun 18, 1993 D.AIMONE [David A.] at 22:34 EDT I've used Ataris for sequencing now for 6 years, but as far as 8 track digital recording that's affordable, reliable and professional quality--on the Atari: I'LL BELIEVE IT WHEN I SEE IT! Maybe if they sell about 100 times as many Falcons as they sold ST's, Mega's, STE's and TT's put together, the software developers might invest the money that's needed to make a truly professional product. Why do you think so many quality developers have pulled out of the ST market, or support it marginally (I love my Dr T's KCS Omega, but they're basically updating it because they started with ST's, and Emile apparently likes tinkering on the Atari's--almost all of their major development in MIDI is for PC's). I've just been burned by too many Atari promises over the years, while I do everything wonderful on my Quadra 800 and PowerBook 160 at work (yes, I know they've yet to come out with a PowerBook MIDI fix--oops!). I'm not hostile, just can't see investing a lot of money in a company like Atari anymore. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 217 Sat Jun 19, 1993 D.SCHWINN [SCRUNCH] at 00:30 EDT David, I understand what you're saying about Atari being rather (HA) unreliable but it is still the computer of choice for me for $$$ reasons and more. Whether Atari themselves stay around or not, I will continue to use my ST. It's already 8 years old and it still does what I need without even blinking. Say that about Macs and PCs. Hell, if your PC is 3 years old it's a dinosaur. In fact there is a junk yard (a metal scrap yard) here in Cincinnati that has a pile of 3 year old PCs thats 15 feet high... NO JOKE... companies that need to get rid of them can hardly give them away. I think that the ST is still blooming if you consider some of the new software thats coming out. I don't need to tell you about Omega. Omega 1 still blows my mind and they're about to release a new one. The Codeheads, Gribnif (sp?)... have you seen Arabesque?, Notator(!!!),... O.K., I admit that Mac and PC have more professional type stuff going on but Atari still has a lot going for it as far as a home computer and a professional midi computer. I have always been on the underdog team in all aspects of my life - and I like it. Bury me with my ST and (unless I die in the next few months) my Falcon. I don't mean to get on your case - it just that until I die, Atari is not dead. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 218 Sat Jun 19, 1993 KING1 [Legion] at 01:05 EDT I think that someone put it best when they said that they love tthe children, if not the parents. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 219 Sat Jun 19, 1993 D.JOHNSON143 [Eric Blair] at 01:10 EDT I'm glad my Falcon is up at the Studio, where it's part of a Hotz Translator rig, so it doesn't have to suffer the indignity of hearing how awful Atari is when I log onto GEnie. Hmmm, I guess this clone I'm typing on right now is good for one thing... Eric ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 220 Sat Jun 19, 1993 K.HOUSER [TheGodFather] at 02:24 EDT Six days since mailing the check for my Falcon14/80. The wait is KILLING ME!!!!!!! At least Pure "C" will arrive around Monday or Tuesday to keep me preoccupied until I can get on with my DSP programming. I've just come up with several new business ideas that revolve around telecommunications, an STe, or a Falcon that are lookin' good! :) --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 221 Sat Jun 19, 1993 W.DEAN4 [D'noski] at 10:12 EDT alright ! It's good to hear that they are shipping more each day....D'noski ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 222 Sat Jun 19, 1993 N.WALKER3 at 10:48 EDT Bob Brodie mentioned a minimum engineering spec of 88 dB on the Falcon audio. It amazes me that Creative Labs can call the SoundBlaster 16 bit when it only has a 68 dB S/N ratio - that sounds more like 12 bit to me! ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 223 Sat Jun 19, 1993 JAMES-GRUNKE [ Sonny] at 19:18 EDT Hi Folks, We appreciate the input here. I assure you that issues raised on GEnie are discussed internally at Atari. Re: F030 specs We will be ramping up ATARI MUSIC activity on-line. This will include posting specs and 3rd party product info. I realistically expect it to take 30 days to compile the info. Your comments here on what would be useful are appreciated. Thanks in advance, James ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 224 Sun Jun 20, 1993 SAM-RAPP [Sam] at 01:28 EDT James, I have had my Falcon for a week now and I am very impressed with this machine. It is the best thing to come out of Atari in a long time, and I hope it flys high! -----------------> Sam ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 226 Sun Jun 20, 1993 STEVE-J [FunkPopARoll] at 09:07 EDT The Falcon030's s/n ratio is 88dB w/ THD of less than .05%. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 227 Sun Jun 20, 1993 D.AIMONE [David A.] at 17:05 EDT Dave Schwinn, I'm not taking the ST discussion personally and I hope no one else is either-- I will probably use mine for many years just like you do. I just don't invest any more major money into it and won't buy another machine of theirs unless the company (Atari) becomes the same quality (good quality) as the hardware they make. Still looking forward to Mirage/CyberSample! ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 228 Sun Jun 20, 1993 M.GATES4 [MINDY/STEVEJ] at 19:14 EDT Wow, lively discussions! THanks, guys! James Grunke: Over at PAN, we're lamenting your absence and trying to get the Atarians over there to persuade Perry to get us a better Mesenger, and some more AtariMusic official presence there! As a production professional who uses digital media every day, aand on every job, I still remain sceptical of the Falcon because of the company's spotty responses to the consumers and the marketplace... Still, I want to hear the Singular Solutions rig and the F030, and won't write it of just yet... I really don't want to pay Atari to continue to lag in the market and in consumer relations either! David A Thanks for the provocative messages, started a good exchange! I agree with your reluctance. I'd LOVE to hear the Singular Solutions A/D a/b'd with an Apogee. The A/D will be the true critical element in the system, I think... I'd really like for Sing.Sol. to come to the MIST AtariFest in Indianapolis July 31 and give me a demo of the rig. If it isn't at least as good as Digi Sound Tools II (not THAT hard to do...esp. the D/A!) I'm not interested. Since having the ST II to use for post production I have found an degree of control over the sound of my work, like the discovery of the wheel! So, some sort of HD recorder/editor is in my future. As an Atari/Notator/Unitor user, I look to Atari first. As a businessperson concerned with costs, I look to Atari secondly. As a musician/producer/engineer, I'll listen to everthing I can! I'm still waiting to find someone with the whole rig, the F030 and the Sing.Sol. A/D and software... I won't be the first, but I might come along soon... SteveV ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 229 Mon Jun 21, 1993 STEVE-J [FunkPopARoll] at 03:54 EDT I've seen a few different figures for s/n ratio, but here are the audio specs I've seen (from Atari!) for the Falcon030: Signal-to-Noise Ratio: 84-88dB Frequency Response: 20-20,000Hz Total Harmonic Distortion: less than .05% Crosstalk: -60dB ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 230 Mon Jun 21, 1993 JAMES-GRUNKE [ Sonny] at 18:25 EDT Sam, I'm really glad your happy with your machine. I wouldn't doubt that you've spent more time on your F030, than I have on mine in the past week... :) Things are pretty busy at work as you can imagine. SteveV, I am on-line at PAN, ATARIJAMES. Most of my time there is in the MMA forum, and the Synth SIGs. Let me know where your posting and I'll by... :) BTW, Perry has a TT and was working on an update to Messenger. I'll ask him on the status of the project. Thanks, James P.S. I'm really diggin' my MIDI Spy program from the Codeheads. I jam on my M1 while on-line. I haven't been able to break it yet... amazing how good the timing is. John, is there a way to implement a click track, and turn it on/off via MIDI, and do my dishes all in real-time? ;) ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 231 Mon Jun 21, 1993 AEO.5 [Ed Krimen] at 21:33 EDT >What's the big deal over a NEW Atari that uses a 68030 processor? On the Mac, >the 68030 is already on its way towards extinction, being replaced by the >68040's in the Quadra and Centris. Is Atari about 4 or 5 years behind, or is >there something I'm missing (besides the built in digital audio)? > >Is it the price? > >Really don't understand. The general computing populous thinks that a computer's performance is directly related to its processor. There are many, many more factors involved, as can be seen when you compare any Atari computer to a Mac or PC. Chris Oates alluded to this a bit. People tend to compare like terms: processor to processor, RAM to RAM, storage space to storage space, and they don't understand the underlying technology which blends everything together. There's a lot more stuff going on underneath the hood than just switching 0s to 1s and 1s to 0s with a couple handfuls of chips. For example, PC users are just -now- discovering the wonders of local bus technology, even though we've had it since 1985. The performance increase when using local bus architecture is substantial -- like night and day. The Falcon has many more benefits to it than just a 16Mhz 68030. The DSP (digital signal processor) is key; the NeXT machines have it, SGI machines have it, Apples new machines will have it, some PC sound cards have it. The Falcon has a SCSI-II port which can be found only on computers costing several times more than the Falcon; this translates into super fast communications with SCSI-II devices. Another benefit is that the Falcon can output to video without any expensive external conversion boxes; people who do multimedia will thoroughly love this feature. You can't do this on the Mac or PC. The Falcon is also compact, with an internal hard drive. You can literally carry it under your arm. And to think, a 4meg machine with internal 80meg hard drive, for ~$1300 is a steal! ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 232 Tue Jun 22, 1993 K.HOUSER [TheGodFather] at 01:58 EDT 8 days & still waiting for the F030 14/80... To settle the nerves, Saturday I played with a F030 4/65 at Sheldon's Computer STudio in Asheville, NC. It was strange looking at a '1040' style machine with an internal hard drive. Heheh, even though I knew better, I kept catching myself asking Sheldon where the SyQuest drive was. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 233 Tue Jun 22, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 21:15 EDT Well my business has been doing well so I'l be diving 50 miles on Saturday and bringing all my important programs to teset them on the bird. If they have one of the newer 4/84 macines in stock I just might... ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 234 Wed Jun 23, 1993 J.WEAVER11 [Dream] at 05:29 EDT Flakes, Would that be the flower shop??? "so I'l be diving 50 miles... " Where is this place? Atlantis??? ~~~~~ Dream ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 235 Thu Jun 24, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 19:04 EDT Gee I usually catch those typos. Actually it's only 20 miles as the crow flies, but this crow will be driving his Jeep Grand Cherokee, (if I can get it away from my wife!) That reminds me, I think I'll call them and double check on their Saturday hours... I know this babbling is off topic but I'm just getting warmed up for when I actually get the computer. Then you'll see some more meaningful posts. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 236 Thu Jun 24, 1993 KING1 [Legion] at 19:35 EDT Tha Falcon sounds cool, now if they would make a lap-top version like the Stacy, I'd find some way to afford it. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 237 Thu Jun 24, 1993 D.COOKE at 23:54 EDT Godfather,you've been waiting 8 days?I've been waiting two months and still haven't recieved my Falcon!:-) ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 238 Fri Jun 25, 1993 K.HOUSER [TheGodFather] at 02:10 EDT Well... 11 days since I mailed the check. It should be here around next Friday or so. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 239 Fri Jun 25, 1993 S.SCHULZ2 [STEFFAN] at 03:20 EDT Oooh, Aaaah, A laptop falcon, I could die a happy man. I was just looking at Powerbooks today. I asked about MIDI and the guy got this queasy smile on his face and said that they have a problem. I said thanks for your help and the door hit me in the butt. I want a Falcon Laptop! ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 240 Sun Jun 27, 1993 M.GATES4 [MINDY/STEVEJ] at 02:52 EDT JAMES JAMES JAMES JAMES JAMES JAMES!!!!! Oh, thank you, you're really there after all! I've been bugging Perry all year to get you (guys) on over there AND to get a better Atari Msngr!!! So, he has a TT, huh? Kept it a secret, he did! Kevin GodPops, Are you going to... have you... got the D2D stuff? I gotta know! Has anyone else actually touched the Singular Solutions rig? Please? SteveV *S ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 241 Sun Jun 27, 1993 K.HOUSER [TheGodFather] at 09:32 EDT SteveJ, RE: D2D... Not yet. I expect I'll bet into that soon tho'. :) I may just wind up using some of my own custom editing software tho' if I can bang it out quickly. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 242 Sun Jun 27, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 14:11 EDT D2D - the professional commercial version - is actually for sale in the U.S. The Computer Network in Glendale has it in stock. But it was in the four or five hundred dollar price range so I passes, waiting for Digitape. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 243 Sun Jun 27, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 15:18 EDT David, Tell us about Digitape. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 244 Sun Jun 27, 1993 MYECK.WATERS [myeck] at 17:54 EDT I've been waiting for months, and I STILL can't get anyone to give me the money to buy a Falcon! ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 245 Mon Jun 28, 1993 KING1 [Legion] at 00:58 EDT For those of looking, Chuck Levins Washington Music Center claims to have Falcons in stock. I *think* that he said *8* of them. Thought you'd like to know! ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 246 Tue Jun 29, 1993 W.DEAN4 [D'noski] at 07:38 EDT Ditto, Myeck when you find that money to get the Falcon 030, let me know ASAP thanks in advance :-) D'noski ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 247 Thu Jul 01, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 09:51 EDT James, So far, the best way to get a click track with MIDI Spy is to just load one of the songs in the DRUMTRAX folder. You can "Play" a click or basic drum beat and play along in Overdub mode, and you can start and stop it with MIDI commands. If sales pick up for MIDI Spy, I may consider adding more sequencing features, such as metronome and MIDI clock. I'm glad you're enjoying MIDI Spy. I, too, am amazed at how good the timing is. Flakes, We've uploaded a press release for DigiTape (and a copy is in the CodeHead topic here). It contains the specs. I've been out of town for the last three weeks but we're hoping to get rolling on DigiTape soon. We'll be releasing a demo here. John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 248 Sat Jul 03, 1993 M.GATES4 [MINDY/STEVEJ] at 01:05 EDT Here's the latest that I've gotten from Steve Klein at Singular Solutions, regarding my question, "Where can I see/hear a full D2D/AD64x system with a Falcon?" Steve says that the D2D system is not ready yet due to modifications to the D2D software for the 'stock' Falcon. It appears that as the F030s neared release, more features were requested for the basic D2D software package, and keeping up with that has had the Cambridge company hamstrung up til now. He says that "any minute now" they'll be able to turn back to the multi-track system to work with the AD64x, which has been finished for quite a time, since it was designed and field-tested to work with the NeXT systems. The good news is that the D2D company is VERY experienced with the 56001 DSP chip, having written a lot of other DSP software for "other applications, under different names..." Aaannnd, here's the REALLY cool part! Klein says that D2D has "a huge library of DSP functions" that they're just waiting to use! Apparently the current (or about-to-be-undertaken) work on theF030 multitrack system involves major compatibility testing, with other F030 functions and applications. The first version to be released will not come close to the editing/ recording functionality of the DigiDesign systems now available, but the upgrades subsequent to that should come very quickly. He did ask me what I wanted, since I had told him that I hoped to use the F030/D2D system as the companion to an ADAT & analog studio. I replied that I feel that the system should DEBUT as a full featured 2-track digital editor, as close to Sound Tools as possible, because to reach for the full 8-track package for openers would put the product in direct competition with both the ADATs and the DA-88, and at about the same price point... a hotly contested market! Whereas a 2-track digital recorder and editor at the proposed price would undercut all the other sytems available GIVEN that the F030/D2D pkg had competitive features. I've talked with several fellows eager to jump ship on Digi IF the Falcon/D2D can do the same job for less dough. Of course they'd LOVE it to be faster and back up in the background (like the Dyaxis II...). It's my guess that the first software will be available in October __maybe Sept, tho I wouldn't trust it unless there were free or VERY cheap upgrades included__ with the good stuff not 'til '94... JUST MY GUESS, here, guys! Steve Klein is a pleasant and well-spoken and -informed guy, and very interested in our (my...) views. Give him a call at Singular Solutions, 959 E Colorado Blvd., Pasadena, CA 91106 (818) 792-9567. Your input will help us all! SteveV Johnson ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 249 Sat Jul 03, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 13:24 EDT Hmm, I wonder what's in the $500 D2D package that The Computer Network in Glendale currently has for sale? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 250 Sun Jul 04, 1993 W.DEAN4 [D'noski] at 08:48 EDT Great update on the Singular Solutions .....D'noski ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 251 Sat Jul 10, 1993 M.GATES4 [MINDY/STEVEJ] at 13:13 EDT David, <$500 D2D package that Computer Network in Glendale currently has Ooooooh Ooooooh!!! Could somebody please find out?! The game is afoot, Watson! Thanks, SteveVJ ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 252 Thu Jul 22, 1993 P.THOMPSON19 [PAUL] at 09:26 EDT Sam, now that you've had time to play with it, tell us all about it! Paul ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 253 Wed Aug 18, 1993 M.GATES4 [MINDY/STEVEJ] at 19:44 EDT Manny's in NYC reports that they have the D2D "4TFX" software in sotck ooops, stock for the F030! Has anybody seen/heard of the 8-trk version? SteveV *s ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 254 Thu Aug 19, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 18:44 EDT Nope. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 255 Fri Aug 20, 1993 D.PHILLIPS24 [Darcy] at 20:02 EDT SteveV, 8 track version? What 8 track version? Darcy ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 256 Fri Aug 20, 1993 M.GATES4 [MINDY/STEVEJ] at 21:16 EDT Darcy, Where you been, man? The hype over the F030 is that is is oooops, it is inherently capable of 8 tracks of digital audio. D2D is the software that is to make it so. I just looked thru my stuff from Digital I/O and Singular Solutions and there's no mention of an 8-track version.... maybe I made a mistake? In any case, that's been the word "on the street". When I spoke to fofolks from Singular awhile ago, they said we'd have to wait, since the basic D2D in the F030 put the D2Dcompany's schedule back... Stay tuned... SteveV ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 257 Sat Aug 21, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 05:26 EDT At the risk of disappointing some people, I should point out that the Falcon is 8 MONO tracks, or only 4 Stereo tracks of digital recording. There are some limitations to that in that it can only do four channels at once in MONO mode. SO, the way to get 8 tracks is to play in stereo mode and half the tracks are on the right channel, and half on the left, or so I've heard. Anybody with better information? ~Chris ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 258 Sat Aug 21, 1993 B.WILLIS3 [Bill] at 10:47 EDT Chris, The promised hardware add-on for the Falcon features 8 individual inputs and 8 outputs. At least that's what I was told. The stock Falcon only features two- track input/output. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 259 Sat Aug 21, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 13:50 EDT It seems to me that the most important thing for assigning tracks is the software. Access can be gained through a stereo input. The software would tell the signal where to go, wouldn't it? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 260 Sun Aug 22, 1993 STEVE-J [FunkPopARoll] at 04:30 EDT C.OATS2 - Out of the box, the Falcon030 is actually 4 stereo tracks (rather than 8 mono) tracks (the Falcon030 only has one stereo CODEC for DAC and ADC). However, using external hardware, 8 mono tracks (and possibly more) are possible. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 261 Sun Aug 22, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 11:53 EDT When you say "8 mono tracks" are you saying that if I want to record 8 different tracks they will all wind up on the same single mono channel and your end result is a mono recording? Or is it possible to record 8 mono tracks, one at a time, and then assign some to the left and some to the right channel so that the end result is a stereo recording? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 262 Sun Aug 22, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 15:47 EDT David, I can't speak for other software, but DigiTape allows you to record up to 8 tracks, 1 or 2 at a time and pan each of them in the stereo mix for playback. The high-end version, 2.0, allows you to record up to 32 virtual tracks, and playback up to 8 at once. John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 263 Sun Aug 22, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 16:03 EDT >Or is it possible to record 8 mono tracks, one at a time, and then assign some >to the left and some to the right channel so that the end result is a stereo >recording? It had better be or I'll be one VERY dissatisfied customer. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 264 Sun Aug 22, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 16:13 EDT John, 1. Will Digitape require a hardware add-on? 2. How far along is the development? 3. Will you be looking for beta-testers? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 265 Sun Aug 22, 1993 B.WILLIS3 [Bill] at 17:48 EDT David, The "8 mono tracks" hardware add-on is intended to replace the conventional 8-track analog or digital stand-alone recorder. I assume that most users would route the 8 individual outputs to a conventional mixing console. I haven't heard about the accompanying software having the capability to mix the 8 tracks internally -- though I assume such a thing is possible. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 266 Sun Aug 22, 1993 W.DEAN4 [D'noski] at 21:03 EDT Even on a analog machine you have 8 mono tracks......but you can't bounce them around without loosing sound quality.......D'noski ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 267 Mon Aug 23, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 00:54 EDT John, I am champing at the bit for a chance to send you my $199 for Digitape Pro or Deluxe or whatever its called. As far as I'm concerned, whether you want to call it 8 track or 4 track stereo, what you describe is good enough for me. Especially if after recording those 8 tracks you can pingpong them down without degradation. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 268 Mon Aug 23, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:39 EDT The current two versions of DigiTape are software-only. There are plans for a future hardware add-on which will provide a 44.1K clock speed for CD use. The manual translation is about finished and it should then be just a couple weeks for the printing. The beta-testing is being done by the developers in Germany. John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 269 Mon Aug 23, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 21:33 EDT >"The manual translation is about finished and it should be just a couple weeks for the printing." Yippee! I've got $199 that's just itching to buy Digitape Pro or Deluxe or whatever it is you call it. I sure hope I can buy it at the Glendale show, if not sooner! By the way, have you tried running MidiSpy and Digitape simulataneously? Can I run the MidiSpy output from my stereo, into the Falcon's mic input, and record it with Digitape? I know that's kind of kludgy way to combine Midi and Direct-to-Disk, but hey, if it works on the cheap, why not? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 270 Mon Aug 23, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 23:18 EDT Gotta have that 44.1Khz! Maybe I should buy the program and learn how to use it and then add on the hardware later? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 271 Tue Aug 24, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 01:51 EDT Thanks to everyone for the informed replies. I stend corrected where need be. ~Chris ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 272 Tue Aug 24, 1993 W.HYNES [Bill ] at 03:43 EDT If the Falcon can be used as a sample playback unit, how many voices can be played simultaneously? Is there any software that does this available? -Bill- ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 273 Tue Aug 24, 1993 STEVE-J [FunkPopARoll] at 04:54 EDT O-ZONE - Digitape works on a stock Falcon030 and is already available (at least it is in Europe). Since it's already available and not a Codehead- developed product (it's just imported by them like many of their products), I doubt you'd be able to beta test it. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 274 Wed Aug 25, 1993 STEVE-J [FunkPopARoll] at 03:11 EDT W.HYNES - However many the machine's bandwidth can support. I've HEARD the Falcon030 could support even up to 12 channels of CD quality (16-bit, 44.1kHz sample rate) audio (or 10 channels of 16-bit, 50kHz sample rate audio). There's no telling how far you can push it with the DSP in there. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 275 Wed Aug 25, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 06:25 EDT David, Yes, MIDI Spy works with DigiTape. I noticed that when I tried to record with MIDI Spy while playing back tracks in DigiTape, the timing was a bit erratic. I didn't get around to simply playing back a MIDI sequence from MIDI Spy while recording it with DigiTape. I think that will probably give much better results, although there's currently no way to sync them other than using a CodeKeys macro to start them both. Flakes, The inability to do 44.1Khz is due to the lack of that clock speed in the Falcon. It would seem to me that some software could be written to periodically drop sample points from a 50K recording to bring it down to 44.1, but I haven't done any experimenting. Bill, The number of simultaneous tracks (voices) that can be played is determined by a combination of factors, including hard drive speed, DSP speed, and CPU speed. In practice, 8 is practical. John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 276 Thu Aug 26, 1993 W.HYNES [Bill ] at 03:40 EDT Steve-J, Does that mean up to 12 notes at once? -Bill- ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 277 Fri Aug 27, 1993 W.HYNES [Bill ] at 02:52 EDT John, Thanks for the info. If it does 8 voices at once while multi-tasking (and you can graphically edit the samples), it sounds like a good alternative to Akai's new under $1000 8 voice sampler (no graphic editing, less memory and no HD). -Bill- ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 278 Fri Aug 27, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 05:16 EDT Bill, Whoa. I didn't say anything about multi-tasking with DigiTape (unless you're talking about playing MIDI Spy in the background). Anyone who thinks he's going to be able to use MIDI or digital recording software successfully with MultiTOS is going to be disappointed. John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 279 Fri Aug 27, 1993 D.PHILLIPS24 [Darcy] at 20:58 EDT John, The hardware add on that you are referring to, will it be anything other than a clock crystal, for instance, digital I/0 for dumping audio to and from a DAT machine? Also, are you aware of _any_ plans to enable any sort of sync capability? (for instance, start playback or record from a MIDI note on command received at the MIDI ports?) If so, then I am definitely interested. Thanks. Darcy. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 280 Fri Aug 27, 1993 KING1 [Legion] at 22:48 EDT I don't know if this applies, but the DSP in the Falcon is the same as the one in the Peavey SP. The SP can do 16 voices at 48 Khz. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 281 Sat Aug 28, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 10:40 EDT Can you describe the "graphic editing" for us in a little more detail, John? Better yet, how about uploading some screen shots to the ST RT, or a demo version? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 282 Sat Aug 28, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 13:17 EDT Darcy, We have no details whatsoever on the planned hardware add-on. The professional version outputs MIDI Start/Continue/Stop and clock. I don't think it syncs to MIDI input, though. David, The graphic editing allows cutting, pasting, and silencing any block of digital data, down to individual sample points. We will be releasing a demo of the low-end version. I'm not sure if a demo of the professional version exists. Thanks for the suggestion about the screen shots. John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 283 Sat Aug 28, 1993 KING1 [Legion] at 20:56 EDT Bill, Don't even consider the Akai unit. The Peavey SXII/SP combo is a really good set-up and I got mine for around $1050. If you want to know more Email me and read the past messages in the Peavey cat. Legion ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 284 Sun Aug 29, 1993 M.GATES4 [MINDY/STEVEJ] at 11:30 EDT John E codehead; I thought that I saw a discussion somewhere, in which you (may have...) said that your Digitape could work with the Singular solutions A/D converter, which allows 44.1kHz I/O. Is this so, or am I hallucinating (again...)? SteveV ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 285 Sun Aug 29, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 17:50 EDT SteveV, No, I've never heard that. If DigiTape can record at 44.1 using the Singular Solutions A/D converter, it's news to me. That's not to say that it's untrue. I've just never heard of it. John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 286 Sun Sep 05, 1993 M.GATES4 [MINDY/STEVEJ] at 10:14 EDT John Codehead, Oooooops, sorry, my mistake... SteveV ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 287 Wed Sep 15, 1993 D.WEST11 [David K] at 21:46 EDT Falcon is finally real available here in the San Francisco Bay area... At ATY computers in Oakland (of course!) and even at a favorite local music store (K&K, right here in SF). But hard facts are scarce... I understand that the D2D 4T/FX four-track recording software is available for sale, but nobody around here has actually got one. Have any of you Falcon owners on GEnie laid your hands on this one? Or seen the 4T/FX in use? Any new news on the status of DIGITAPE, the 8-tracker to be handled by Codehead? Last I heard it was eagerly sought but not yet available in the USA... And, most important, does anyone have S/N specs on the D/A and A/D convertors supplied with Falcon030 right out of the box? It may take quite a while before I could get the A/D64X ($1200 add-on A/D/A box). Are the built-ins usable at all? Sorry to ask you all to go over old ground...I just did my first hard-disc session at a friend's - he's got a Mac IIci with Audiomedia II card and a beta version of DECK 2.0 4-track recording/editing software. This has me sold on Hard Disc recording. Now I need to find out if the Falcon 030 is capable of turning out similar quality with software and hardware that exist in hard fact right now. Thanks, -DKW ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 288 Thu Sep 16, 1993 R.THUROW at 00:02 EDT I read somewhere that the Falcon has an audio S/N of 86 (or was it 84?)dB. I don't know if these specs can be compared relative to other audio specs. IMHO if the Falcon's gonna fly they need to get the software out and soon. Notator Logic is supposed to be a candidate for next year for digital audio. Played with the 4 track Akai at a store recently. It was a real tempting box and looked as easy to use as any 4 track analog machine. Yet editing on the computer screen in the object oriented environment that Logic has may be worth the wait. Now if developers would just get a quality piece of audio software out there and fix Aladdin so it works on the Falcon, I might just buy one. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 289 Thu Sep 16, 1993 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 01:00 EDT David, I've been holding out for Notator Logic Audio (or if they fail me, Cubase Audio) for my Falcon. I ate up 10 meg reeeeeel quick the other day just farting around with HD recording on it. BTW, my Falcon sounds mucho better than my 486 equipped with the SoundBlaster16 ASP. --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 290 Thu Sep 16, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 17:31 EDT It has taken longer than we had anticipated to get DigiTape ready for the North American market. We are still working on some problems. We'll be showing DigiTape at the CodeHead booth of the Glendale show this Saturday and Sunday. We hope to release it soon, but have no definite date. The high-end version allows up to 32 "virtual" tracks. You can select up to eight of these tracks at once for mixing, playback, and recording. In general, it's best to stick to 8 or fewer tracks. Without hardware, the Falcon allows sampling rates of 50K, 33K, 25K, 20K, etc. There are plans for an additional hardware option, but I have no information at all about what this might be. John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 291 Fri Sep 17, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 00:03 EDT I'm REAL disappointed that I won't be able to buy DIGITAPE at the Glendale show Saturday. I'll have to take what little consolation I can from the opportunity to at least _play_ with DIGITAPE, and I believe, CUBASE FALCON. I just hate it when I've got the bucks to buy a product, but its not available yet. In two months, the product will probably be here but the bucks may be gone. Shoot, after Saturday's show, I KNOW the bucks will be gone! :-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- John, can you elaborate at all upon the "problems" you're working on? Are they problems with the software itself, or are they problems with packaging, contracts, manuals, translations, etc? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 292 Fri Sep 17, 1993 D.WEST11 [David K] at 00:23 EDT Thanks for the feedback, Rich and Kevin and John. Based on a first, cursory glance at the 030 and its manuals, Falcon doesn't appear to be ready for serious work until serious software is available. GEnie is more-or-less the national meeting place for Atari musicians.. surely somebody has had a chance to check out some version of 4T/FX or Digitape.....?!? John Eidsvoog, Could you be more specific (either here, or in the "Digitape" topic on the ST board) about what the problems with Digitape are? Or what solutions are underway... Perhaps, after the Glendale show, things will seem clearer. -DKW ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 293 Fri Sep 17, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 03:09 EDT The problems with bringing DigiTape to market are logistical and many-fold. We hope to be ready soon. John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 294 Sat Sep 18, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 00:57 EDT CodeHead, You said that Digitape will allow 32 vertual Tracks and 8 playback...you can mix tracks right? When do you think Digitape will be available? Will it Sync to a timing code? ie MTC from an external sequencer? What kind of Hard Drive performance am I gonna need to work 8 tracks of playback? ie seek rate and data transfer rates. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 295 Sat Sep 18, 1993 M.GATES4 [MINDY/STEVEJ] at 18:30 EDT DKW, You've asked all the big questions, all in a row! The same experience out here in the midwest: everybody wants to sell me the 4-track D2D, but NOBODY's seen it. My gut feeling is that it will have to go a couple of generations further down the line to match the ease and features of the Digi/Mac systems. And, no 48 or 44.1mHz sample rates without an external A/D--D/A converter with a master clock to talk to the F030... Unless Singular Solutions and D2D bring us some surprises at Glendale, the future of HD recording via Atari is still 'science fiction' at least at current 'pro' levels. Very sadly (well, sorta...) I'm gonna get a Mac this week and a Sound Tools II system with Deck in December. C'MON John! C'MON D2D! Change my mind, NOW!!!! SteveV ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 296 Sun Sep 19, 1993 R.THUROW at 02:38 EDT Steve~~ I for one hope you hang on. Noooo! Not another one leaving Atari! Rich ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 297 Sun Sep 19, 1993 D.WEST11 [David K] at 06:30 EDT Steve, You've stated our current position very well. ...and a used Mac IICI plus a new Audiomedia board would run about exactly what a new Falcon030 plus the Singular Solutions A/D box costs: about $2300. Still...did you see Darcy's report of a 4T/FX sighting in the other Falcon topic? perhaps things will look real different in a month. Rich, I'm beginning to feel that Atari has left me ...none of my MID software will run on Falcon without expensive upgrades (if at all), and Falcon in fact doesn't look much like the Falcon we've been imagining for the last year. But the final results ain't in yet. -DKW ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 298 Sun Sep 19, 1993 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 11:15 EDT DWK, oops... DKW, Atari didn't *leave* us with the Falcon. Notator's incompatibility is the programmers fault. The incompatibility is due to their lack of support of any processor beyond the old 68000. I plan to go to Ft. Lauderdale on Oct. 22 to talk to them about that too. It would not be a difficult fix like they've claimed. I believe they (EMAGIC) wants to force as many to upgrade to Logic before they get around to doing anything about making NotatorSL run on a Falcon or TT... Believe me, you wouldn't want a 68000 in the Falcon. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 299 Sun Sep 19, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 15:44 EDT John, Does Digitape allow sample rate conversion? For example, Let's say that I purchase the progam and begin making recordings at 50K then at a later date the hardware becomes available to work at 44.1K. Would I be able to step down with exsisting recordings to the lower rate? ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 300 Sun Sep 19, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 22:10 EDT There are no rate conversion options in Digitape, although you can play a given tape at any of the available sampling rates. It probably wouldn't be hard to write a routine which would remove excess sample points (50K to 44.1). John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 301 Sun Sep 19, 1993 M.GATES4 [MINDY/STEVEJ] at 23:13 EDT > Well, guys, I am not going to leave Notator, and as long as I can still find an operating ST or STe, that will be my main axe, BUT... it's time for me to get very serious about 1) a digital editor for a bunch of applications and 2) the next recording medium for my studio, which studio does not now exist. I have clients in line and must for the time being use other rooms. A 4- track digital recorder with Digi-grade editing is the perfect transition medium for me. 2-in. 16 or 24 track is too expensive just yet, in both acquisition and media cost, and a smaller format analog system requires that I get an adequate mixer right away... If I in- tegrate my current midi rig with the digital, I can 'bridge the gap' until I can get the mixer, then the analog multi-track (whatever flavor that turns out to be... That's how it looks to me. Darcy's discovery is wonderful and I can't wait to see it myself! An outfit in Ohio, BackStagePass Recording, was at the Indy AtariFest with a Falcon and the basic, bundled, D2D package. They wanted to get me to 'order' the 4-trk, but _they_ hadn't seen one. I'll call them tomorrow to see if they've bought one for themselves yet. If they have I'll take the bike down and have a look, should be about a 2.5 hr ride one way... I've found a Mac IIx for $1299 with keybd & color mon, and an SE 1 meg for $400 at the same place, and I think that I'll be there at 8:30am with $$. If the F030/D2D is as hip as Digidesign, I can easily enough 'outplace' one or both of the Macs. Still, both the F030 and the D2D are _awfully_ new... Then there's DINR... Anybody here used DINR? Oh, Gott in Himmel, it's cool! And it works, been out for a while now... I know I'm rambling now, but here's what I wanna do... I want to use my Stacy as the main system clock, to run the Sound Tools via midi cable. Not as a full remote, altho that may be possible, but just to send the clock from Stacy/Notator/Unitor to the Mac and have the Sound tools use that as the main clock reference, since the Stacy's clock is a LOT more stable than the Mac's. We shall see... Finally, it's hard for me to find the energy to feel 'abandoned' by either Atari or Emagic... Well, easier toward Atari, which is just a *barmy* company any way youlook at it, but still not worth the trouble to worry over. I'm not a hot console cowboy who has discovered all of the Atari's secrets and am now bored, and the same with Notator. It'll be years before I approach the edge of the envelope with either of these tools. the Atari world is shrinking and if the company is _half_ as inconsistent and erratic with the developers as with us consumers, who can blame a company with a great product for seeking a wider user base? That IS the name of the game. Now, I'm gonna go play some MUSIC! Thanks, guys! SteveV ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 302 Mon Sep 20, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 02:10 EDT Having seen 4T-D2D, DIGITAPE and CUBASE FALCON all demo'd at Glendale, I believe DIGITAPE offers more bang for the buck, unless you absolutely need midi and digital audio in combo, in which case, you'd be better off spending the additional 400 - 600 bucks on Cubase Falcon. That leaves 4T-D2D as the odd man out, IMHO. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 303 Mon Sep 20, 1993 D.WEST11 [David K] at 21:28 EDT David Fairweather, Thanks for the good news about Cubase Falcon last night. {Guess I better go search the Steinberg CAT}. And the hopeful signs about DIGITAPE. Perhaps, by the time this message is posted, you'll have even more details. I keep forgetting that "affordable" hard-disc recording is still so new that virtually everything is first generation or vaporous... Seems like the Falcon's built-in A/D converters might be a potential sore spot. But Singular Solutions A/D 64 is awful pricey at $1295. I'm hoping the D2D 4I/4O {digital interface} would let us use the A/D on, say, a DA30 as Falcon's interface to the outside world. But this is all guesswork on my part. Anybody have facts? And I'd really love to believe that the simple D2D shipped with Falcon is good enough to use for a while as is.....if anybody's heard of, or seen, any productivity using a stock 030, please tell... Thanks,-DKW ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 304 Mon Sep 20, 1993 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 22:12 EDT DKW, I played with the D2D demo on my Falcon briefly about a month ago. My hard drive had little free space (4meg... I'm a dev... ) and I noticed that the audio playback skipped some. It may be that my hard drive was badly fragmented. I haven't tried it to my 30 meg blank partition on one of my SyQuest88 carts tho'. --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 305 Tue Sep 21, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 01:05 EDT By the way, from what I understand, Cubase Falcon may come with a crystal that plugs into the DSP port to do 44.1 Khz. At least the one being demo'd at Glendale had one, so they do exist somewhere! As for using D2D demo for anything useful, well...I don't think so. Certainly not if you need multitracking. Now if I could just figure out that damn DAME program, *that* might be something you could do some serious stuff with, but its way to obtuse for me. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 306 Tue Sep 21, 1993 R.THUROW at 01:48 EDT I hear the Syquests are too slow for audio recording and that the new high spindle rate SCSI2 drives are recommended. The current BYTE has a nice comparison of new HDs which is a must for those of us considering digital audio recording. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 307 Tue Sep 21, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 06:04 EDT R. Thurow, I get a 900K/sec transfer rate with a Syquest 88. This is definitely much faster than the internal IDE drive in the Falcon. I've been using the 88 for all my work with DigiTape and it performs flawlessly. Perhaps what you heard is that Syquest 44s are too slow, or maybe the 88s are not fast enough to use with some other software that's not as efficient as DigiTape. John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 308 Tue Sep 21, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 22:35 EDT I've done recording onto Syquest 44s on a Mac without a problem. I don't see why it should be any different for the Falcon. ~Chris ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 309 Wed Sep 22, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 00:33 EDT Yeah, but DAME looks cool.... ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 310 Wed Sep 22, 1993 F.VUOTTO [F10] at 21:21 EDT I routinely use the A/D converters in my RDAT (Panasonic 3500) to drive the "digital in" of the Digidesign DigiMaster since they SOUND so much better than the built in ones (specs are nearly identical). It seems this would also be possible with the Falcon *IF* the 44.1K sample rate was available (a little hardware, a little software, real cheap!). Sample rate conversion is no trivial matter, the Panasonic won't do it, the DigiMaster won't do it. A machine like the Roland SRC-2 dual sample rate converter costs around 2.5K. What would it have cost to put 44.1K in the Falcon, a $2 crystal and a 50 cent chip? Why isn't Atari taking musicians' (probably its largest user base) needs seriously? Sorry for the negative tone, I do love my STs. Frank /~ F10 Software @/ ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 311 Wed Sep 22, 1993 R.THUROW at 22:05 EDT Wow, thats a good rate. I'm getting about 506K/sec on the 44. Of course thats with a LINK H/A attached. The recommendation was in Byte, and they were not even considering any DA program for the Atari, but rather digital video on macs. The SCSI2 port on the Falcon should allow the connection of some blazingly fast drives. I'm glad to think perhaps I could get greater speed out of the 44 if I connected direct to SCSI on the Falcon. The article in Byte is titled "32 Hard Drives, we pick the best". Its the Sept 93 issue. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 312 Thu Sep 23, 1993 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 00:48 EDT Yes, I too got 900+ K bytes/sec when my SyQuest 88 was hooked up with ICD software on my 1040STf. However HDX on the Falcon is sooo darn slooooooooow. I'm calling ICD for their Pro Utilities by the end of the week. Dangit!!!!!! --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 313 Thu Sep 23, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 03:09 EDT My tests show that the Syquest 88 is about twice as fast as the 44. I would guess this is because the disk spins at the same speed but there are twice as many sectors per track on the 88. John ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 314 Fri Sep 24, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 01:09 EDT The 44.1 crystal plug in cartridge was being shown at Glendale with Cubase Audio Falcon. ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 315 Fri Sep 24, 1993 R.THUROW at 01:38 EDT Looks like the 44 meg only gets about 56% of the speed you all are getting on the 88. Are you enabling a big cache or something or are the 44s just slower? Thanks! ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 316 Fri Sep 24, 1993 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 02:22 EDT The 44s are slower. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 317 Fri Sep 24, 1993 R.THUROW at 02:51 EDT OOpps, Thanks for the reply John, my last message suffers from Aladdin lag. Rich ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 318 Fri Sep 24, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 18:32 EDT Rumors are that Cubase Adio supplies that 44.1 Crystal you mentioned. Kevin, ICD pro is the way to go! ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 319 Thu Apr 28, 1994 C.FLUEGEL [Curt] at 00:25 EDT Attention : ANYONE WHO IS NOT A FALCON AND/OR CAF USER announcing a pretty darned impressive sale on the two (actually three with the FDI) read file #32707 in the Atari base m475;3 save nearly $900!! a shameless plug brought to you by ... Curt Fluegel American Pro Audio ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 320 Tue Nov 08, 1994 SM [The Mixer] at 17:18 EST As you can see, this topic has had a name change to more adequately reflect what it's about. I'm also going to put a bunch of messages into the library. Steve ------------ Category 3, Topic 33 Message 321 Tue Nov 08, 1994 S.GARRIGUS [Scotty] at 20:47 EST Steve, While your at it could you please chance my topic name too? Can you change it from Computer Musician Coalition to Creative Musician's Coalition ? I'd do it myself, but I don't have the power. :) Scotty ------------