
Monday 22-Aug-94 09:38:20

--1700--

TE> Bad messages are being lost.. which sucks because I don't know what areas
TE> they are from, so I don't know if I should be added areas to my list!  I
TE> think I am missing areas that I am being fed.

It doesn't fix anything, but a prg I wrote called "TossReport.rexx"
can sure help you keep an eye on things.  I run it as an event every
Monday, and it creates a log like:

>  Date       TagName    Tosses | In   | In/Day | In/Toss |
> 22Aug94  BAD_MSGS           2 |    2 |      0 |       1 |
> 15Aug94  BAD_MSGS           1 |    1 |      0 |       1 |
> 08Aug94  BAD_MSGS           6 |    9 |      1 |       1 |
> 01Aug94  BAD_MSGS           2 |    2 |      0 |       1 |
> 25Jul94  BAD_MSGS          23 |   42 |      7 |       1 |
> 18Jul94  BAD_MSGS          25 |   49 |      8 |       1 |
> 11Jul94  BAD_MSGS          13 |   37 |      6 |       2 |
> 04Jul94  BAD_MSGS           9 |    6 |     10 |       2 |
> 27Jun94  BAD_MSGS           7 |    5 |     11 |       2 |
> 20Jun94  BAD_MSGS           4 |    7 |      7 |       1 |
> 13Jun94  BAD_MSGS           11|    14|      9 |       2 |
>  Date       TagName    Tosses | In   | In/Day | In/Toss |

How many bad-msgs do you get per week/month/day/year?

File-requ "TOSSREPORT" from 1:2410/207 for the very latest release.

--1701--

BB> Why would tail'ing 1 text-file (calls log) 'corrupt' it?

LF> Because it reads from the file and at the same time is trying to re-write
LF> the file.  (ie. 'tail >calls -10 calls')

I wouldn't blame that on the "tail" cmd.

*YOU* are specifially instructing it to destroy your own file.

I didn't (and still don't) consider that as "tail is corrupting it".
(And it's not "corrupt" anyway, it's "gone".)

This is the correct way to do things like that...
tail >tmp -10 calls
Copy  tmp     calls

Or faster yet....
tail  >tmp -10 calls
Delete         calls
Rename tmp     calls

Or better yet...
Tail >pipe:tmp -10 calls
Copy  pipe:tmp     calls

--1702--

TO> I have loked and looked, but can not find anything on how to set up
TO> limited Term link access, I know how to set it in the flags, but what file
TO> need to be made and in what format, can anyone help, thanx.

I can type "PAGE" at any prompt on my system, and it gives me the page # for
any topic in the CNet manual...

Main> PAGE termlink
> Using Termlink..................122
> TERMLINK........................239-240

Look on pages 239-240 in the manual.

It gives the filename and format.

Several users have mentioned that the "BAUD" should appear as "14400"
as the manual states.

Others claim, it should be as "1440".

Let me know which one works.

--1703--
HS> Ok, I guess my real question is ... what do you do to monitor your netmail
HS> thats in and out bound?  Do you use a editor and snag the bundled packages
HS> and go snooping for "improper" stuff?

HS> According to FIDONET Policy 4 we are supposed to "check" the mail to
HS> ensure that its content is not in voliation of net policy.  If the mail is
HS> person to person via the nets ... I know nothing is private on a BBS ...
HS> is this a ethics issue on invasion of privacy?

I've heard many different sides of that argument...

1) You *MUST* read 100% of all private-mail to, and from, everyone.
   *YOU* are responsible for everything illegal that occurs on your system.

2) You must *NOT* read any mail that is private.
   Each user is responsible for their own actions, not you.
   If you even read 1 piece of mail, you are breaking the law and
   invading their right to privacy.

3) You can "OPTIONALLY" read or skip a random sampling of private-mail,
   as you see fit.  You can freely delete mail between any 2 users for
   any reason (good or bad) that you like.

4) 1, 2, and 3 are all in effect at various locations.
   They all vary from state-to-state, and country-to-country.

Who's right?

Who has the time to do #1?
Who would ever really know if you secretly did #2 anyway?
Who decides what are the "good or bad reasons" in #3?
Is #4 based on where *YOU* live, or 1 (or both) of the users that send
the mail?  Who knows the laws in your state.  Let alone, each and
every of the 50?

--1704--

BC> If you want to call out I will receive the joinlink. We have 7 lines here
BC> and are busy almost constantly. Give me a call voice at 207-786-3207 if
BC> you want to tie into us some night.

Brian, how about PUBLICLY posting the days/times/phone #s/JL-password?
Let anyone/everyone join-link.

You can, of course, still control which lines, which times, which
days, how many systems, etc.  So there's no real reason to keep things
big secret.  Or require everyone to voice-call you.  Open things up.

Thanks

--1705--

MB> 80 lines after Ken's internal commands. And some have multi "'" commands:

MB>    GO,FASSST | {*0SYSTEXT:SYS.GOHELP}
MB>    BBS~Q;L;?
MB>    FILES,AF~Q;F11!;*4!;DS!
MB>    GAME,GAMETIP,GMT~Q;M1;5

Which are you doing?  You must use the right format.
1) GO,FASSST       | {*0SYSTEXT:SYS.GOHELP} `1-10
2) GO,FASSST `1-10 | {*0SYSTEXT:SYS.GOHELP}
3) GO,FASSST       | {*0SYSTEXT:SYS.GOHELP} '1-10
4) GO,FASSST '1-10 | {*0SYSTEXT:SYS.GOHELP}

Only #2 format works for me.
Even though others claim #1 works.

MB> How about if I send you my BBSMENU file so you can take a
MB> look at it?!

Sure.  But I don't know how soon I'll get to it.
How about just posting your "'" cmds?

If you, or anyone, would like to take a look at my BBSMENU file it's
available 24-hrs a day.  File-Requ "BBSMENU" from 1:2410/207.

Or...

Dial 810-473-2020 direct and log-in with the "DEMO" "DEMO" acct and
read/download the gfile-menu.

(I'd rather NOT fulfill anymore 25,000 byte routed-netmail requests
than I need to.)

--1706--

S> When you logon to a CNet BBS and use your ID# it then says (is "user"
S> correct [Yes]). Well mine stopped (maybe I just turned something off and
S> forgot it) doing it, anyone have any ideas...

What is your "config/options/who-and-show-user-list" set to?  ON or OFF?

--1707--

K> Does anyone know exactly how much it would cost to get a CNET amiga system
K> hooked up to the internet.. Including ALL the nifty little extras needed..
K> A.K.A HARDWARE, SOFTWARE and the rest

There have been volumes written about it.
Yet it remains one of the least know things.

If you are a member of The Amiga ShareWare HeadQuarters (810-473-2020)
some interesting reading for you here...

CNetUUCPinfo.lha            6348 ----rwed 02-Mar-94 23:59:59
: Using CNet v3.xx and UUCP v1.16 by Marlin Schwanke & Lance Murphy Feb94

UUCPinfo.lha                2872 ----rwed 16-Dec-92 07:47:38
: Info from Brian Clark on his CNet<->UUCP prg

proteusInt.lha             54118 ----rwed 11-Jun-94 23:59:59
: Proteus Internet Doorway for CNet-BBS

CnetInte.lha                2863 ----rwed 23-Dec-92 18:50:19
: Connecting Cnet BBS upto Internet network

BigCNets.LHA                4721 ----rwed 23-Aug-94 00:02:31
: List of giant CNet-BBSs with 8-22 lines.  Great for 50-100 user Join-Links.
: Some have Telenet access.

--1708--

MW> Can someone do me a big favor and fileattach any Other Language
MW> BBSTEXT/MENU files to me??? Any of them will do i want to have alot of
MW> different languages available to my users, be it french, spanish,

Mega, I don't have any, but would you be interested in collecting a
large # of them?  With the understanding that you would gather all the
best ones into 1 archive and U/L it to Future World for all to enjoy?
(It really should be included on a "CNet 3rd disk" that has been
talked about forever, but never really created.)

Thanks.

--1709--

S> The person can bypass all that if they are in expert mode!  When
S> in expert mode, you don't see the entry screens to the subs!

I think you mean the "SuperUser" mode.

The "Expert" mode and the "Intermediate" are the same.

--1710--

BT> BTW, Bill, when you went to school, did'nt they ever teach about this
BT> amazing thing called paragraphs?  I feel like I real a da*n outline every
BT> time I read anything you write.

I do it for several reasons....

1) It's a great way to organize thoughts in as little space as possible.
2) I find paragraphs can be lengthy and wordy.
3) List-formats will list in neat numbered-items.
4) They can later be referred to very, very easily/quickly by number.

#4 is very important to me.

Thank you for your concern (and criticism) of my writing style.
But it really isn't necessary.
I'd much rather talk about CNet instead.

--1711--

I>         Well i need another version, Cnet 3.05c is ok but has alot of
I> BUGS! Traptoss Sux, The ansi editor is hosed and needs to be revamped. and
I> system lockups are a bitch when you run a big bbs and the program keeps
I> hosing out on the sysop who payed a pretty penny for it...

Ken didn't write TrapToss, so he's not responsible for the bugs in there.
Did you try CNet's own tosser instead?

Have you reported all those "a lot of bugs" to Ken?
Hopefully giving much more info than just: the ANSI editor is "hosed".
This needs to be "revamped".
"System lockups are a bitch".
The prg keeps "hosing out on the SysOp".
"This Sux."

If you've already given him DETAILED, ACCURATE bug-reports, that's
about all you can do for right now.

I> when is 3.06 or 4.0 coming?

I haven't heard.

--1712--
On Sun 04-Sep-1994  4:27a, Thomas Brooks wrote:
TB> Bugs I have noted in this short time include the MV command not working at
TB> all, a limit of 500 items in file and message bases

Tom, if you'd like to have us help you track those to down, please post more info.

I've used the MV cmd a bazillion times, on my BBS, and others.
It is definitely NOT a "not working at ALL" cmd.
Works fine.  And it can be made to do so on your system too.
What does SnoopDos report when you try and MV?

Are you using (at least) this version, date/time, and size?
> Version pfiles:BBS/mverify
> CNet PRO 3.05c

> mverify                    13788 ----rwed 09-Feb-94 18:02:16

I also have personally, as well on many other systems that I call,
seen far more than the "limit of 500 items" you speak of in subs.

What is your "max item limit" set to in those subs?  (Using the "EL" cmd.)

--1713--

CH> This maybe off-topic for this area but I figured out a way to put version
CH> strings in archives. All you have to do is put an Amiga version string in
CH> a text file and store it uncompressed in the archive. It doesn't account
CH> for very much space and you can write a small utility to allow BBS users
CH> to view the version of the main program in the archive.

You can also run the 'version' cmd on the executable file.
And take that output-string and 'filenote' it on to the executable itself.

Then nobody needs to "write a new BBS utility".
CNet's own "E" cmd (and all other BBS software) will list the files in
the archive, and you see the filenotes.

(Also works for archives that have several different executables in
them, each with a different version #.)

--1714--

I> normal operation for the new version to do that? another thing that i see
I> is that the Ansi visual editor is FU*ked UP! when a page gets filled and
I> the editor is SUPPOSE to move down a line, it send the cursor a HOME code
I> or something returning it to the top@!

Mine moves down 1 line as it should.

I hope I'm understanding this correctly.
Is this the test that I should be trying?
1) Run the full-screen, visual editor.
2) Type 1,2,3,4.  One # on each line.
3) After 25-35 lines, does the screen scroll?

Mine does.

Please post a step-by-step instruction list so that I can see this bug occur.
Thanks.

--1715--

HS>   you might want to contact the sysop here... he's got a program
HS>   setup so all you need is a password to joinlink - only the
HS>   sysop on the calling end has to be there, you don't need
HS>   anyone on the receiving end :-)

CNet's own event-scheduler is designed to do both "attended" or
"unattended" joinlinking.

Does anybody use this feature?

If so, please post your event-config data.
("PrtEvent.lha" is get for doing that.)

Thanks

--1716--
M> I was wondering if any of you have tried using the HydraProtocol on
M> CNet3.X
M> If any of you have it up running PLEASSSSSSEEEE!!! let me know. I have
M> tried  it in Terminus, and that's Awesome... I seem to have some problem
M> with CNet locking up the serialport  :-/ ???? If AmiExpress can use it.
M> Then CNet can use it to !!!!...
M> If any of you have a config for it. Then please mail it to me in here, or
M> in a Netmail..

Please keep that important info PUBLIC, for everyone to use.
NOT private, for 1 person to use.

How would CNET (or any BBS not specifically written for a 2-way
protocol) know that callers are doing a 2-way?  Knowing what to do
with the inbound files that are streaming in, at the same time other
files are streaming out.

I consider 2-way protocols (and whopping 50% deductions in LD phone
bills) to be one of the most important, significant BBS features of
the 1990s.

And yet only a microscopic # of Amiga BBSs are using them.
I call a bazillion Amiga systems, and have seen 0 using any of the
more than 10 different slick, 2-way protocols available.

Can someone post about a dozen phone #s of Amiga-run BBSs that use hydra?
I'd love to call them and find out how they did it.

--1717--
I> My question is that would a compatibility problem between the new bbstext
I> (3.05c) and mine be a problem, See i have alot of modifications and
I> actually am too lazy to edit the new one out to be the same for files that
I> i run.

I wouldn't move another step without updating that BBStext important file.

If you want to find out if that's the problem,
it's as simple as running your BBS 1 day with:
CLI> rename CNet:BBStext           CNet:BBStext.old
CLI> rename CNet:BBStext<original> CNet:BBStext

I> BTW if this is the problem , could you reccomend some proggies for
I> comparing and updating the new bbstext ?

There's quiet a few.  Most are slow arexx scripts.
I like the full-featured one, written in "C" instead.
(But, of course, I'm bias.  I'm the author.)

UpBBStxt.LHA               20236 ----rwed 04-Aug-94 21:17:17
: Compares/updates your CNet-BBS BBStext file in 5 seconds

File-requ "UpBBStxt" from 1:2410/207.

--1718--
C> when someone goes to download some of the decriptions are wrong, it shows
C> another files descriptions, I have no idea why....

Do you store your sub's data-files in RAM:?

After a crash or reboot, those RAM files are gone.
CNet has no choice but to use the older disk-based ones.
Needless to say, newly added files, and older deleted files, will
"throw off" CNet's idea of where file descriptions are located.

CNet can't find things that don't exist.
(Those deleted RAM data-files.)

--1719--

G> I need to be able to go thru the accounts that currently exist and change
G> the expiration dates and expiration access levels to a certain value.  I

Do you need to change EVERY user to a different value?
Or the same values?
Or based on their access groups?

CNet can already do things like...
> EA 1-9999
> Access groups to apply changes to: 0-5,10-20,25-30

--1720--

RG> I tend to agree that a sysop does'nt have all the time to read these and
RG> is limited, however the best option which I have is...

RG> Users who post messages, who are caught slandering or breaking the law,

There's a big difference between public posts, and private mail.

RG> One way to do this is just let users who provide their info who used the
RG> callback verifier cannot run away from it, unless they change their #'s or
RG> move.

Who wants a phone-bill if you have to verify 100s of callers from all
4 corners of the globe?  I assume most sysops do NOT use the callback-
verifier on long distance call-backs anyway.

That might verify their phone #, but not their name, address, age, or
any other info.  That could still all be false.

Afterwards, for a small fee, the phone company will change your #, no
questions asked.

If you register from a business phone, the callback-verifier might
dial into an office with 20 different people present.  It's anybody's
guess who actually answered that callback-verifier call.

Face it.
Every verifier-scheme is loaded with loop-holes.
(And it only takes *1* loop-hole to make it ineffective.)

BB> Who wants a phone-bill if you have to verify 100s of callers from all 4
BB> corners of the globe?  I assume most sysops do NOT use the
BB> callback-verifier on long distance call-backs anyway.

RG> Well this is what I have to say for the callback verifier, a sysop that
RG> lets his/her computer do LD callbacks is N.U.T.S. (Not Usually too smart).

I agree.  But that means:
Local calls...
A very small # of local callers benefit.

Long distance calls...
Billions of others in the world don't.

I just always felt auto-callback-verifier had a very, very limited appeal.
But others rant and rave how great it is.
And how they must have it in the BBS software.
I was hoping they'd respond here.
Maybe I'm missing something.  (It's happened before.)

If you live in a city where 1,000,000 people can be reached via a
local call-back, that means over 5,000,000,000 others can't.

0.02% is pretty slim "effectiveness".

--1721--

> KEN IS NOT MAKING AN IBM VERSION.. (Or so Jim says).. UNTIL CNet4.0
> Amiga

BF> EXCUESE ME ...Sir David!  Last I saw on this echo, there was quite a bit
BF> of discussion about this and that *it was* in the making.

What does "quite a bit of discussion about it" prove?
Especially when that discussion states, YES THERE IS, NO THERE ISN'T,
MAYBE THERE WILL BE, THERE DEFINITELY WON'T BE, MAYBE SOON.

Since only Jim/Ken know.  And only Jim/Ken control the matter, anyway.
I'm going by what Jim/Ken say, instead.
Which is very little.
Other than, "someday there will be an IBM CNet".

Would could all try and out-guess them.
But are you going to go by the guesses, or the facts in the matter,
coming from the people that matter?

The choice is yours.

--1722--

GM> nodes, and this makes it impossible to TERMLINK out.  What I have found I
GM> must do is 1. kill trapdoor on the port that will be calling out and 2.
GM> make that port "online" so CNet is in control of it.  What I would like is
GM> an arexx script for the users who I am allowing this type of access to use
GM> to "prepare" the port and then another script to "return" it to the
GM> trapdoor state....

GM> Just to clarify, the first arexx script should:

GM> 1:  kill trapdoor on the outgoing port ONLY

TrapTell can kill TrapDoor...
> Usage: Mail:TD183/Bin/TrapTell [-Pportname] QUIT

GM> 2:  make that port "online" so CNet monitors and controls it

Same way you'd start it otherwise...
> Run CNET:BBS 4

GM> the second script should:

GM> 1:  make that port "offline" so it's free

To shut-down a CNet port...
> CNet:Close PORT=4

GM> 2:  reload trapdoor on that port
GM> (i use the command  "run >NIL: trapdoor CONFIG trapdoor4.cfg" to
GM> reload a trapdoor on  port 4, for example)

That's the cmd, right there.

Anytime you need to run a DOS-cmd via arexx, just use...
> address command "My DOS-cmd and parameters...."

(But the whole thing can be done with 2 simple, short DOS-scripts
instead of using arexx at all.)

--1723--

AA> BB>  * Origin: Auto-JoinLink \r1 810-473-2020 \r0 9-10p EST 7day/wk
AA> (911:7000/0.3)
AA> How did you manage to get this^^^^^^^^^^^^ the reverse mode in your Origin
AA> line?

Same as usual.  Add a \r1 before it.  And a \r0 after it.

You \r1 can \r0 set-up \r1 handy \r0 macro-keys \r1 for \r0 each \r1 of \r0
those, \r1 and \r0 quickly \r1 highlight \r0 anything \r1 you \r0 want.

--1724--

BB> When does that start?  Is it just for 1:1/31 or other sites, too?
BB> (I route my stuff elsewhere now.)

MB> Not sure. Where do you route your internet mail? See, 1:1/31 is the
MB> closest site for me, but it seems that my mail is only getting bounced
MB> abck to me now, and I have sent internet mail quite often.

Some generous IBM-BBS in my net set-up one also.
I use that.
I don't use mine too often either.
I guess I better try, maybe they've changed things here too.

Everyone had to realize that sooner or later 1:1/31 would be bombarded
with tons of mail.

A connection between Fidonet<->Internet is a great idea!
But given the volume, many more sites are needed to support the ever
increasing, crushing load of data.

I wish I had the money and hardware.
If I win to lottery, I'll open up the biggest Amiga-BBS on planet Earth.

--1725--
MB> Well, I decided, I wont bug you with my BBSMENU file, and just determined
MB> it must be a bug with CNET, or a limatation.
MB> Anything over 90 commands in 2; Availble Everywhere Menu will not work.
MB> No matter how I arrange them or change them.

As of today, I have EXACTLY 209 cmds in my "Available Everywhere" list alone.
(And growing quickly.)
Cmd #1 works.  Cmd #209 works.

I'm tempted to just double/triple those same cmds again, just to see
if 400-600 cmds will work.

I really hate to see systems that are expanding greatly to hit a
90-line limit, while others are already >200.  I wish I could help.
We need more "greatly expanded" systems around.

MB> No matter how I arrange them or change them.

The "arrangement" is very important.

They won't work arranged in any other order than as stated in the manual:
1) "This ~ that" equated cmds
2) Ken's "default, built-in" cmds
3) Your added "{} MCI/Print" cmds

I don't know what the exact overall max length of each line is.
But I'd keep them as short as possible.  Maybe <80 chars, or so.

--1726--
> FROM SCRATCH areas like Base, UDBase, PFiles, etc. THAT is something I
> am DEFINATELY NOT looking forward too.

MP> I would think that Ken would write another updateing program to update
MP> your old ones....  Didn't he do it from 2.63 to 2.79 or something like
MP> that?

Ken wrote a whole series of "update" executables, as they were needed.
NEWBASE, NEWUSER2, NEWUSER3, NEWUSER4, UP225, UP250, UP300, etc.
I sure hope he continues.

Here's a bit of a trivia question for all you "very long term" CNet SysOps...

> When was the last time you had to "DELETE and RESTART from SCRATCH"
> during a CNet update, due to changes in CNet, and NO updating method
> available?

I know VOTE had to, a while back.
What about the "big" ones...
Pfiles, News, BBSLIST, General, Subboard info, etc.

--1727--

1 K> I also know there is ALOT of new things comming for C-Net Amiga.
2 K> However I can't disclose any information.
3 K> Please, lets keep the rumors down!!!!!!

Is this "can't disclose any info", Ken's wishes, or yours?
In either case, what is gained by this top-secret, closed-mouth policy?

#2 directly causes (not prevents) #3.

--1728--
TW> Yep, It is hilarious how some people really speculate and start a big rash
TW> of rumors. Especially on a Large network!

Some folks think tons of rumors on large networks are "hilarious".
Others find it "maddening, confusing, and totally unnecessary".

I'll leave you to decide whether either case "helps" or "hurts" CNet.

We need info, corrrect info, facts.  From Ken and/or Jim.
Not rumors and/or silence.

But we can't force Ken/Jim to speak.

But I can't imagine why they wouldn't spend 10 mins per week posting a
few comments.  Surely even the most busy folks have 10 mins per week.
If any lengthy explaination takes >10 mins, just cut it off at the 10
min mark.

Quiet a lengthy story can be written in 10 mins.

I'll even settle for 5 mins.
Or 1-2 screen fulls.
Just as long as it's "weekly" or on some such *REGULAR*, interval basis.

--1729--
BB> Keep in mind the *TOTAL* number of employees at Perspective Software.
BB> That's including the total number of people that write 100% of the
BB> code itself.

DA> What I am saying Bill is that CNet needs more employees.

I agree.  But I can't find any earlier comments in this thread that
state "CNet needs more employees".  I'll double check.

DA> When you have individuals
DA> posting in newgroups saying not to buy CNet because the author has left
DA> town (and yes if you want that message, i'll call my provider and carbon
DA> it to you, but I believe the content of that message is irrelivant,

How about just getting me the NAME of those folks, and a method of contact?
I'll be more than happy to send them some correct info instead.

DA> not a point of the fact that the software is a silent salesman.  Take a
DA> few marketing classes, the first things you learn is to take care of the
DA> customer, every single one of them.  Is Ken doing that?

I don't know which is "the first" thing taught, but also important...
"Advertise!  Advertise!  Advertise!"

You can make quite a lot of money in this world selling garbage, and
with little (or no) "great, individual customer service".  (Ask the
phone company.  heheheheh)

But who buys things if they don't even know those things exist?

--1730--

I've been awake for 36 hrs, so you'll have to forgive me if I'm seeing things, but...

If I set-up a subboard to "all FORCED anonymous items", and someone
posts a msg (or I use AO to drag in some files) the headers get marked
as:
> From: Anonymous
> Orgz: The SysOp of 810-473-2020

Not very "FORCED anonymous".

Am I overlooking something here?
Shouldn't the "organization" strings be hidden also?

--1731--

BB> - Bill "Mr. BBS" Beogelein, author of over 100 CNet doors/tools.

JC> What language do you program in?

C for the big stuff that needs the speed and power of C.

Arexx for the rest.

Although, CNet's arexx port and long, list of host cmds, and speed,
and power, and flexibility, does allow quite a bit without ever
touching a line of C code.  (But not everything, of course.)

I don't know too many BBS packages (other than CNet) that have 61 arexx cmds.
And read/write access to 1-2 *THOUSAND* system (and user) variables.
(WOW!)

And that's just the arexx part of things.
(You don't even want to know about the C and ASM and it's own built-in
coding possibilities.)

--1732--

DC> The way I got around the no CC: netmail in the 8 nets I carry was to
DC> estasblish a local area sysop echo. Then I post the b;anket announcements
DC> there addressing them to SYSOP. Works like a champ!

David, I had always hoped that CNet would allow (optionally) all
netmail to be handled like that.  (Post it in a sub named NETMAIL, or
something.)  So I could keep a sortable, auto-weedable, content-
readable, record of all in/out netmail.

Can that currently be done?

--1733--

RG> Would anyone know why the message bases subs assigned to the networks,
RG> sometimes report they are locked, to try them later?

Are you tossing mail at the time?
RR'ing (rebuiding) the sub?
Low on memory?
Are the subs time-locked?
Running amaint?

Just a few of many ideas to consider.
(I don't recall, off the top of my head, which actually "LOCK" the sub.)

Wouldn't it be great if Ken added 1-5 more lines to BBSTEXT?
The BBS would tell you the exact thing you need to know.

Let Ken know, if you feel that's an important, handy feature.
(I do.)
Well worth the 1-5 lines and related "work".

--1734--

JO> What is the largest C-Net you've seen?  And what speed modems where on the
JO> system?

Define "largest".  Most lines?  Most users?  Most HD space?  Most
files?  Most CD ROMS?

I've gathered a list of the 150 largest CNets I can find.
Dial 810-473-2020 and type "BIG" at any prompt.

The list is too long to post here, but some big ones are....

CNet-Amiga 20-lines        | 716-876-2547 | + 6 gigs of files
CNet-Amiga 18-lines        | 312-850-0112 | 2000+ Usenet areas + 2gigs of DLs
CNet-Amiga 18-lines 9gigs  | 613-829-0909 | 5 lines are Telnet/FTP, 6 CDs too
CNet-Amiga 22-lines        | 608-257-1852 | Eric Dunst, SysOp
CNet-Amiga 20-lines        | 609-983-6800 | 4.5 gigs of storage
CNet-Amiga 17-lines        | 804-420-9573 | 3@14.4K; 14@2400bps 804-523-6454
CNet-Amiga 15-lines  (JL)  | 804-499-9101 | Friday JoinLinks w/60 users online
CNet-Amiga 16-lines        | 515-573-5494 | Fidonet
CNet-Amiga 10-lines 770meg | 201-335-1652 | All lines are 14.4k
CNet-Amiga 10-lines        | 208-467-4292 | 3 gigs of files (JL) AmiNet
CNet-Amiga 12-lines        | 310-493-6872 | 1.7 gigs of D/Ls
CNet-Amiga 10-lines 1.4gigs| 916-759-0506 | UUCP/FTP bstorm.bga.com
CNet-Amiga 10-lines        | 708-372-0283 | UUCP + Fido @ 1:115/372 (JL)
CNet-Amiga 10-lines        | 313-281-0100 | No waiting
CNet-Amiga 19-lines 2.4gigs| 305-731-4963 | Telnet/Ping/Archie/FTP epinet.com
CNet-Amiga 35-lines!!!     | 407-647-6461 | SysOp/Tim Perez, 198.206.133.4
CNet-Amiga 16-lines        | 708-983-6557 | FTP/TCP/IP, Telnet: net.xnet.com
CNet-Amiga 19-lines 5.5gig | 916-759-0500 | Usenet/telnet/ISDN

Please send me corrections/updates/additions.  Thanks.

Make sure *ALL* CNets (big and small) are listed in the master Amiga
BBS list (WABL).  Contact 1:324/134 ED DUKESHIRE.

I wonder why so few non-CNET Amiga BBSs have 15-30 lines????
"6-8" is considered giantic.  And I could only find 2-3 of those.
Surely there must be others.

--1735--

V>  > Why not just use the 1-8 lines for a "short" note.
V>  > (That's what it's for.)
V>  > And use the addition 9-1000 lines for a "long" note.
V>  > (That's what it's for.)

V> Because alot of people add their group logos into the short desc/DIZ and
V> some
V> of them are  so tall that 8 lines aren't enough.  Also I've seen several

What good is it to see 1000s of files all with the same logos?
They don't tell you a single thing about the files themselves.
Don't you think 100s of callers would rather know something about the FILES
instead???  If they call to see the new *FILES*, I don't think they really get
a big, big thrill out of seeing this 147 times over and over:

***********************************
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
/\/\/\ Wow!  Bill uploaded /\/\/\/\
/\/\/\ this file all by    /\/\/\/\
/\/\/\ himself!!!!!!!!!!   /\/\/\/\
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
***********************************

Are that many people really impressed by a ton of ?|*!!@%^$(## characters
arranged in a pretty, pretty pattern?  If you are fascinated by that, get a
bunch of those logos and print them out and stare at them all day long.  But
who needs to see the same ones over and over while paying long distance phone
rates???

V> files that need desc's longer than 8 lines.  I personally don't like to
V> read the long desc.

Me neither, but that's exactly what you'll be FORCED to do.
Read LONG descriptions, even if you try and do a short, quick SCAN of files.
Why not remove the SCAN cmd entirely, then?

V> I want to be able to see what a program is about
V> without having to "find" it.  If you don't want to see more than 8 short
V> desc lines, then set it to 8.  There's A -LOT- of us that want more!

I haven't seen A -LOT- of people asking for it.  Just a few.
Do you really want 15-line *SHORT* filenotes?
Then SHORT "scan display screens" will only display *1* file per screen.
Who needs that?  Might as well do the LONG BROWSE cmd instead.

--1736--

MB> I have the Xetec software, if that's what you have, turn off the toggle
MB> for "requestor for write/delete attempts".  You'll probably have to reboot
MB> after you save that, I did.  Works like a champ now.

Are you saying there is no way to just have CNET NOT try and write to a
non-writable drive like a CD?  That would be the correct way to do it.
(I don't own a CD yet.)

But I need to tell Ken #1 or #2...
1) CNet is trying to write to a CD even if you tell it not to.
2) CNet is fine, users don't have it set-up correctly.
Thanks

--1737--

S> I was just wondering what is the filo-handler and FIFO: (DEV) used for?

Rename it "fifo-handler", NOT "filo-handler".

Move it out of "DEV:", and put it in "L:".

Before you run CNet, use:
CLI> run <nil: >nil: l:fifo-handler

You can safely forget about it after that.
CNet uses it to do its DOS I/O magic.

Ken didn't put a version # in it. (Ugh)
Even thought there have been several different releases.
Make sure you use the one that came with CNet v3.05c.
> l:fifo-handler                7024 ----rwed 28-Jan-94 19:40:31

S> Am I supposed to use these in some way with FidoNet or are they do they
S> run in the background somehow?

It has nothing to do with FIDONET the network at all.

--1738--

JG> At any rate, "pfiles" and "gfiles" in the menu isn't really the fault of
JG> the program -- it's the fault of the menus, the perplexing behavior of the
JG> author for using that term in the menu, and of the sysop not changing it
JG> to something more recognizable.

You are right.

I hate the terms "pfiles" and "gfiles". So I changed them:
1) You can reach my pfile menu by typing *ANY* of the following:
   "P" "PFILE" "DOOR" "D" etc.

2) You can reach my gfile menu by type *ANY* of the following:
   "G" "GENERAL" "TEXT" "T" etc.

With that kind of flexibility, I could care less about the default or whether
the bad choice of words is the fault of the BBS author, or not.
What's "BAD" to you or me, might be "GOOD" to someone else.  Why not allow
both? But does your BBS software???

JG> You can call them "Stan" and "Ollie" if
JG> you want. This is true of just about any package out there (at least,
JG> still for sale and/or registration)

There are still BBS packages that do allow *FULL* configuration of menus and
keystrokes.  I want *FULL*.  My definition of *FULL*:
1) You can use words.  SHORT or LONG.
2) You can use 1 character menu choices.
3) You can alias any function to have 10-20 different names.
   (Any, or all, will work.)
4) *ALL* menus can be configured.  Not just some.
5) You can chain multi-cmds together.
6) You can make a short alias, do the work of the lengthy cmds in #5.
7) Menus and keystroke choices do not have to be "compiled" or "recompiled".
8) There isn't some crytic syntax.  Just a simple text file.
9) There's no limit on the # of cmds per menu.
   (If your BBS only allows A-Z type cmds,
    you are forever stuck with a "26 cmds per menu" limit.)
10) You can make cmds "globally" available from all menus, WITHOUT
    adding them to dozens of menus individually.
11) There's no limit on the # of cmds overall.
12) Menu cmds can "modify" other menu cmds.
    You can "SEARCH" for msgs.
    Or "SEARCH NEW" for new msgs.
    Or "SEARCH NEW TO ME".
    Or "SEARCH NEW TO ME   BY JEFF".
    Or "SEARCH NEW PRIVATE   TO ME   BY JEFF".
    Needless to say, you can see how quickly 1 cmds, with 10 "modifier"
    words has literally millions of different combo uses.
13) If you don't like to remember (or type) the lengthy cmds in #12, those
    too can be aliased into easy to remember, shorter forms.

CNet-BBS can do all of the above and more.
It's a lot more than just "Stan" and "Ollie" menus these days.
Amiga BBSs have become extremely sophisticated over the years.
Some folks are still running primitive 1985-type IBM-type BBS software.
They don't even know 1-13 is possible.

--1739--

>  * Origin: Future World! (CNet HQ) Detroit, MI 313-255-2466 (1:2410/215)

DA> Jim, you realize your NC has marked you 'down' in the nodelist.

Dave, do you know if that was based on Jim's wishes or due to others not being
able to get through also?  I can't seem to get mail in/out of Future World.
(Answers fine though.)

Who else polls there?  Have you been successful at all in the last 12 days?

What are the Fidonet rules about "DOWN" listings?  And maybe later "FORCED
REMOVAL FROM THE NODELIST" itself?  Ugh.  Let's stop this from going any
farther!

DA> (I appologize, Mario, I realize it's off topic)  You might want to
DA> get that fixed :)

I should hope direct discussion of the status for the ONLY world headquarters
BBS for CNet, is an allowed topic here.

--1740--

JM> RV> One of the first things that really knocked me about about C-Net was
JM> the fa
JM> RV> that each file uploaded to the filebase can actually contain its own
JM> messag
JM> RV> thread!  When I see a file online, I can [R]ead it, for various

JM> I'm not sure how exactly you mean with C-net, but I have seen something
JM> similar with BBS Express for the Atari ST although it appeared more like a
JM> large comment or something of that sort.

There's a big, big difference between:
1) "A large comment or something."
2) Callers can tack their response(s) onto a file available for D/L.

With CNet, if you have a question about a file, ask it right there.
No need to move into a different msg base some place, and tell the user which
file you are talking about, and make him go find it.
You'll be talking about the very file you are at, at the time.
Others can then respond, and an entire msg thread can occur.
Of course the SysOp, can decide who does/doesn't have msg respond-powers.
Or you could turn the feature off entirely.
Or stop new responses at any given point.
Or make some responses private, others public.
Or address them to specific users.
Or make anonymous responses.
Or use a different handle.
Or use a different handle in every single different file area.
Or, or, or, a long, long list of possibilities.

JM> BTW, I'm looking for an Amiga BBS program which runs multinode by loading
JM> itself only once in memory and just using a small portion for each
JM> additional node.

Maybe a package like CNet would work for you.  You can simple make main BBS
executable "c:resident".  And then whether you run 1 copy, or 10, or 100, they
all run from the same 1 executable (already in memory).

Call a few of the 20-30 line CNets and ask the SysOp about it.

Didn't you ever wonder why so few people use other Amiga BBS software to run
20-30 line BBSs?  And so many use CNet?  There must be a reason.

--1741--

NC> talking bullshit and spreading rumours about Cnet!

Help spread info, instead.  Directly ask users where they get their "rumors".
They shut-up fast.

I know we don't have much info to give, but give it to them straight.
Tell them about things you *DO* know to be fact.
When was FutureWorld down, and back online?
When was Ken's/Jim's last public statement?
What did it say?  (Direct quotes help.)
What have they said in private-mail that would be OK to make public?
What's the last remark about CNet-IBM?

To say "there has been no info" is false.
It's best to mention the *DATE* of the most recent info.

"No recent info" isn't a license to "Well, I'll just make up info, instead".

--1742--

JR>         It seems TrapDoor renames any files that you recieve that are over
JR> "9" to "9,1."  Eg: 12345678.WE9 the next file in INBOUND: will be
JR> 12345678.WE9,1...  C-Net does not process these files at all and just
JR> leaves them sitting in the inbound directory for me...

Is "12345678.WE9,1" a standard Fidonet method?

I don't think I've ever received that many different packets with the same
names.  I had always assumed "12345678.WE10 is what would happen.  (Or "should"
happen.)  What one "should" TrapDoor do?

JR>         Oh, also, TOSS needs to INSERT a space between the message body
JR> and the tearline... Notice my signature has a period in it to accomplish
JR> this -- it really makes C-Net look BAD on networks to appear so sloppy.

I had to add " " instead of "." to my signature.  But yes, CNet should do that
automatically, instead.

--1743--

TY> I've been told it's a pfile, that it's the conference, that it's a bad
TY> line in BBSTEXT, or that it could be JAMMAIL touching some of CNet's
TY> memory (MINE!)

About all I can say that this point is...
Disable all your pfiles and see if it helps.
Re-enable them one-by-one, day-by-day, and see if lock-ups start occurring at
any given point.  I wish I could help more, but nothing else really comes to
mind at the moment.

Run for a few days with a stock BBSTEXT file instead of your modified one.

Take your conference area down for a few days.

I know it'll be hard to do without some of that stuff for a few days, but in
the long run it'll be worth it.  Namely:  A 24-hour, online, working BBS.

I hope I can comment on a few of your pfiles...

TY> ANSI.rexx       (My own ANSI detection program - AD-ANSI)

Does that one work like the others do?
If you just happen to call with an ANSI-term, even though you SPECIFICALLY
don't want ANSI when I call your system, and I have SPECIFICALLY turned it off
on my acct at your BBS.  But I still get tons of ANSI codes anyway.  Ugh.

TY> wait.rexx       (this definately doesn't hurt CNet.. It displays a cute
TY> little
TY>                  twirling icon at "MORE" and "PRESS ANY KEY" prompts.  it
TY>                  looks like this:       (/)  (cycles through /-\|  <-
TY> simple program, but wait.. there's more!

Does that work like the other similar prgs do?
If I want to capture some text, and I open a capture buffer, it gets
pointlessly filled with tons of /-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\|/-\| characters at
the end of *every* screen.  Ugh.

I just wanted to mention those above things.  Sometimes things SysOps don't
think about.

BBS callers have become pretty sophisticated over the last 10 years.  I can't
imagine too many people really too thrilled by a "cute twirly thing" the 10th
(or 10,000th) time that they see it.  It might be very amusing for the 1st few
times a person uses his 1st modem, but he'll probably want to move onto more
important matters after that.

You can test my theories.  And an option-menu that allows users to turn ON/OFF
all those log-in screens, auto-ansi, and auto-pfiles.  And after a few weeks
check and see how many people have set their accts to "WE DON'T WANT ALL THAT
STUFF FORCED ON US!!!".

I've called systems that make *every* single caller go through *14* different
pfiles at *EVERY* log.  With *NO* way to skip them.  I just don't have the time
and money to spend my day online like that.  I call elsewhere instead.

--1744--

BB> But I need to tell Ken #1 or #2...
BB> 1) CNet is trying to write to a CD even if you tell it not to.
BB> 2) CNet is fine, users don't have it set-up correctly.

MF> It's #2 Bill. I have it set up here and it doesn't try to write to the cd.

Thanks Mike.  I wonder how many perspective CNet customers are going to see
things like:

TG> I get a requestor
TG> Volume CDROM is WRITE PROTECTED  ...
TG> I have the data path (to hard drive) and path/CDROM/net paths correct

And think, "My GOD!  I'm not buying that lame software called CNet.  It even
tries to write to non-writable CDs and fails."

And worse yet, people trying to fix it with drastic means like...

TG> I thought I had it cured with 'noreq' but it isn't.
TG> I also have tried BBSGUARD to no success (note on FW about this one).

--1745--

DC> TY> Bugs....   CNet's TOSS program doesn't always toss the mail in the
DC> right
DC> TY> order, so you read the responses first before you read the main
DC> message.

DC> CNet Toss imports in the order received. It does not renumber the message
DC> bases.. That would take way too long... it is NOT a bug in CNet.. it's the
DC> way the mail comes in... I feed 26 downlinks, so I know this from
DC> researching and voice calls to Ken and Jim.

Why would you need to "renumber the msg bases"?

Toss mail based on the dates/times.  (Tossing oldest first)
It might not fix things 100%, but it would sure be better than, "just toss
*ignoring* the dates/times".

The dates/times of the individual msgs, or at the DOS date/time stamps on the
packets.  *SOME KIND* of order would certainly be better than none.

DC> incorrectly install pfiles... My system runs 3 live modems, 2 local ports,
DC> and TCP/IP w/o a problem (aside from idiot teenagers that have nothing
DC> better to do than drop carrier in the most in-opportune times..

Correctly written/designed software of the 1990's can certainly live through
something as simple as "a dropped carrier".  TCP/IP should, but why doesn't
it???

--1746--

GM> Try CNet... Even the Demo supports 100 nodes!  You can set it up
GM> resident or not!

JM> Thanks for the info.  Where does one aquire this CNet software?
JM> Preferrably on Internet or FREQable by Fido.

1) Dial 1-810-473-2020.
2) Log-in with "DEMO".
3) Password is "DEMO".
4) Type "DEMO" at any prompt.
No need to create a new acct.  (But you can if you like.)

Or file-requ from 1:2410/207.
Names: CNETDEMO1 CNETDEMO2  (You'll need both disks.)

If is also available at many other CNET BBSs worldwide.

For Internet, FTP to an aminet site like "ftp.cdrom.com" and look in
"/pub/aminet/comm/cnet".

Let's us know what you think about CNet.  Open discussions are welcome!!!

--1747--

SC> DLG allows users to add comments to a file description.  However,
SC> that's not quite the same thing and, somehow, it seems to be too
SC> difficult for my  users to figure out how to read the file
SC> descriptions

JG> Duh?  Hit return to see new files, or type in file number to view a
JG> particular file?  Duh?  :-)

Jeff, what is DLG's *complete* key-sequence that would need to be typed to view
"new files"?  (From a user that just logged in and is sitting at the
main-menu.)

For CNet you can type "new files", (or "nf" or "new" or "n"), right *at* the
main-menu, or at the file-menu, or the msg-menu, or at many different
menu-prompts.

If you can fall on the keyboard and manage to land on the "N" key, you can
quickly find what very well might be the most used feature of many BBSs:
"WHERE ARE ALL THE NEW FILES???".

That's what people want to find.  Why make it hard, confusing, and time
consuming???

--1748--

TY> Hi..  I was fooling around with my BBSTEXT file adding things... and I got
TY> all my ports to do the exact same thing - due to adding "TOO MUCH" to one
TY> of the lines...  I'm going to look into it further; this might be my
TY> problem with some other line - What's the chances of it being this?

There *IS* a limit on how long certain BBSTEXT file lines can be.
I'm not sure what it is, though.

How long was that "too much" line you speak about?

The longest line in *MY* modified BBSTEXT file is 179 characters
(at line #1528)...

>wc -m CNet:bbstext
Filename:       lines - words - chars - bins - pages - crc
Min:               1       1
Max:            1113      22
Min:            540                2
Max:            1528              179
Min:               3                       0
Max:             733                      20
-----------------------------------------------------------
CNet:bbstext    2104    8175    57402   2778     32    ddcc

For an unmodified, original v3.05 bbstext file, it's 185 characters, occurring
at line #733.

(Aren't computers wonderful!)

--1749--

> I agree. P-files, G-files etc make little "intuitive" sense to me.

JD> Thanks, I was beginning to think I had missed the Second Coming or
JD> something. I don't intentionally call CNet-based systems anymore, and
JD> immediately abort the call if I happen to connect with one.

Just call any of the many CNets that use other cmds for them.  Problem solved.
In fact, just don't use the Pfiles-menu, or the Gfiles-menu at all.  Problem
(really) solved.

It's odd to get annoyed by having to remember to type "P" or "G" if you don't
want to visit those sub-menus in the first.  Just don't.

"Immediately aborting the call" doesn't help.  You've already paid to reach the
system.

You could even stick any hard-to-remember (in your opinion) cmds into a log-in
macro available on every CNet.  When you log-in, all the cmds are executed for
you, automatically.  You didn't even have to touch the keyboard.  That CNet
author thought of darn near everything.

--EOF--

Tuesday 04-Oct-94 06:00:15

-Bill "Mr. BBS" Beogelein, 810-473-2020, 2-line HST 14.4k USR-DS, 1:2410/207

