
Monday 07-Mar-94 01:30:04

--1550--

Regarding CNet's ranging-keywords...

Please consider allowing the (already existing) lines in BBSTEXT to
include ADDITIONAL (not just alternate) keyword possibilities.  (Each
on the same line, separated by spaces.)

> since after past beyond
> until before till upto til
> all overall each total full
> favorite best good great
> first begin beginning start top
> free no$ nocost nocharge
> next continue forward more
> pass skip continuous scroll
> reverse backwards back backward
> ' for                  (So we could use "BG 'text'" or "BG FOR text")
> mess msg message messages msgs
> by uler dler poster sender
> last end bottom ending
> this current reread again
> preview leadin
> byme mine my

The above makes literally 1000s of additional cmds that users might
find more intuitive.

--1551--

JS> In MY humble tests, most of the special range keywords DO NOT WORK
JS> properly on a Fido sub.

Does anyone know which ones?  Most?  (They should definitely be mentioned in
the manual.)  Maybe draw a chart.  List all the keywords along the left
margin.  List SCAN, BROWSE, NETWORK, LOCAL, MESS (or whatever) along the top.
Mark each box "YES" or "NO" if those items be used together.

JS> I would consider this something that should be
JS> CHANGED, or dare I even say FIXED for future versions.  No???

I would be happy if we could get some kind of 'SCAN BY "User Name"' to work
for Fidonet subs.

"BY" or "TO" apparently needs that user to be a direct-caller to your system.
Since 99% of the Fidonet msg I have, come in from the net, I can't search 99%
of the msgs with any kind of "BY" or "TO" a user.  (That's quite a lot.)

I realize the search method would be slower, but it would be better than
absolutely nothing.

Maybe CNet could do something like this in the future:
1) Use its current slick, fast method for non-networked subs.
2) Search 1-by-1 brute-force (if necessary) in networked subs.

--1552--

I'd like to see some option-rules like:
1) You must use double-quotes around all range-parameters
   that contain a space.

2) You can, but do NOT need to follow rule #1 if:
   a) It is the only option you are giving.   (bg BY Bill Allen)
   b) It is the last option on the cmd line.  (by SINCE -2 BY Bill Allen)
   c) It is surrounded by additional options. (bg BY Bill Allen SINCE -2)
   d) None of my parameter is a keyword.
      ("bg BY Bill Since" would need quotes.)
      ("bg by Bill Allen" would NOT.)

You could accidently (or deliberately) forget the quotes in many
situations and CNet would still be smart enough to know what you meant and
work just fine.

--1553--
R> Hey Bill. Almost a month from your origianl post, but your point looked as
R> though it made it fine thru the net. I wonder if you could share what you

I tweeked and I tweeked.  I guessed and I guessed.  People helped and
helped.  And BINGO, it just started working.  I wish I knew which 1
(or 20) things I had set-up wrong.  And which things fixed it.  About
all I can do is tell you what I have NOW...

Keep in mind that *I* am the point.
(No one is a point off of me.)

I'm 1:2410/207.               Also CLINK 911:7000/0.3
My feed (KEN) is 1:2410/215.  Also CLINK 911:7000/0

My Config/fidonet screen has a CLINK network set-up:
> First Zone: 911
> Last  Zone: 912
> Fake Net  :   0
> Address 0 : 911:7000/0.3
> First AKA : 0:0/0.0
> Second AKA: 0:0/0.0

And then of course, the tagnames and addresses under the AREAS submenu.
> CLINKCNETAMIGA
> CLINKCNETPROG
> Export to : 911:7000/0.0

And the individual subs ("EL") need the tagnames in the "Unique Dir" field:
> CLINKCNETAMIGA
> CLINKCNETPROG

I hope I keyed all that in correctly.
So simple, and yet so hard.
Weeks of trial and error guess-work.  (I HATE THAT METHOD!)
I wish I could tell you more.

--1554--

V> BM> OR... what would be real nifty, is a program like Snoopdos, that will
V> keep
V> BM> a running list (like in a window on the Workbench screen) of what line
V> BM> numbers of BBSTEXT C-net is calling to. That would be great testing
V> BM> program...

V> That WOULD be a great program!

That might be VERY tricky to do.  BBSTEXT is loaded all at once, so
getting a program (totally unrelated to CNet) to determine "Program
xxx is looking at memory location $02a18bd6, which is line #1822 of
BBSTEXT" would be VERY difficult.

On the other hand, it would be very EASY for Ken to add a "DEBUGGING
mode" option to CNet.  Whenever it displays line #1822, also sends the
above notice to the CLI, or to the logs, or both.

Ken won't know if you'd find that feature handy or not, unless you tell him.
"MS SysOp@1:2410/215" is all you need to type.  (Tell'em "Bill" sent you.)

--1555--

TB> No, this is selecting right off the control panel.  Whether or not I make
TB> port 0 in or out, if I page myself, it yells, pops up the window, etc.

Are you online under a SyOp acct, or an 'over-ride no-chat' flag ON, acct?

When testing stuff it's probably best to do so from a separate "non-sysop"
level #1 "normal" acct.  (Mine is under a username called, "NORMAL".)

I can't even begin to count the # of times I said to myself, "Hey, why doesn't
this work?"  Only to later find out that is was because I was testing it from
an acct that had a SYSOP flag, or override flag, turned ON some place.

It happens.

--1556--

DL> My fido feed is offering usenet groups thru fido.  The problem I have is
DL> with Cnet's EL command and the field 'unique dirname'.  Names such as
DL> comp.sys.amiga.hardware do not fit here and is require for cnettoss to see
DL> them.  Anyone have any work around for this?

You only need to do any *1* of the following...

1) Convince Ken to lengthen that field's length.
2) Convince your feed to call it U_AMIGA_HARDWARE.
   (I see 99% of the usenet<->fidonet gateways doing this.)
3) Use the CLI cmd "c:MakeLink" 100s of times to fool CNet into
   thinking a directory called "U_AMIGA_HARD" really points to your
   "comp.sys.amiga.hardware" directory.

Looks like you have a choice between:
1) Very unlikely.
2) Unlikely.
3) And slow and sloppy.

Ugh.

--1557--

DC> The Terminal Edge in Columbus, GA has set up a special account to allow
DC> 1st time callers access to the latest CNet3Demo files.
DC> Log in as 'DEMO' with a password of 'DEMO'... simple enough?
DC> (706)571-0669 [mail port]
DC> (706)571-0185 [bbsdirect]

You can do that here also.
I'd love to see a ton of such "1st call" sites.
SysOps, please help make the CNet-DEMO available as a free, fast, 1st-
time caller D/L.

Here is it even simpler yet:
1) Dial 1-810-473-2020.
2) Log-in with "DEMO".
3) Password "DEMO".
4) Type "DEMO" at any prompt.

(SysOps, you'll need to file-requ "QuickDL" from 1:2410/207 in order
to do step #4.)

--1558--

J> Does C-Net need 2.0 or could you run 2.0 with 1.3?

TW> If i am not mistaken v 2.42 and above is only for the v2.04+ ROM chip.
TW> Versions below that will run with the 1.3 ROM chip.

BT> CNet Pro/3 requires minimunly 2.04 of Workbench/Kickstart.
BT> I think it changed around the 2.38/2.42 erra.

CNet v2.40->up needs WB2.0 or better.
It's been that way since 25Oct92 (1992!).
WB2.0 has been out long before that.

That's a long, long time ago.  It is well worth getting an updated
operating systems for your Amiga if you haven't yet.

You, of course, can stay with CNet releases before v2.40, if you like.

--1559--

> We need the "EL" unique-dir size field increased...

That apparently does need to be increased.  I'm seeing other users ask
for that also.

I thought IBM systems would be VERY limiting on that length.  Like 12
chars.  Most that I've seen rename things like
"comp.sys.amiga.hardware" into "U_AMY_HARD".  But I guess, not all of
them do.

CNet's limit is 24 in the CONFIG/FIDONET screen and 20 in the VDE
screen.  What would you suggest as a max size?  What's the longest
usenet newsgroup you've ever seen?
"alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.digitized"?

CNet.h> struct NewSubboardType {
CNet.h>    char  SubDirName[21];      /* 31 */
CNet.h>    char  DataPath  [40];      /* 52 */
CNet.h>    char  ZeroPath[48];        /* 332 */

EL> Path to data dir    :
EL> Path to part0/CD/net:
EL> Unique dirname      :

Does anybody know which items in cnet.h relate to which items in the
"EL" screens?  (Sure wish they had more similar names.)

--1560--

DO> I wasn't aware of a
DO> problem with making the line up to the full 255 characters.
DO> You're saying that if you had a full 255 characters, that if one of

Are MCI codes like "{>100}" counted towards is limit as 6 chars, or 100?

CNet really needs to do some error checking on that as well as "%d" and "%s".

We can't always assume to know the length that %d and %s will expand to at a
later time.

Maybe I'm over simplifying things, but I thought it would be as easy as making
CNet "just copy the 1st 255 chars into the display buffer".  No more.

I small price to pay for eliminating a possible GURU in 100s of places.

--1561--

I'd like to see 1 beta-test area, not 2.
And have it Fidonet (not CLINK).

No "split" problems, like Pete mentioned. And..
No one will be excluded because they receive Fidonet, but not CLink.

If we exclude just *1* beta-tester, that's 1 too many.

I'm assuming more testers receive Fidonet, than CLink.  No?

--1562--

I have a few subs that had a variety of access-flags and invite-only flags,
set.  I now turn them all off, and open up the sub to everyone.  Yet still
some users are reporting them as "invite-only".

(Maybe because the sub's were (past-tense) invite-only earlier.)

Anyone else having a problem with this?

I haven't tried transposing everyone, everytime I change a sub-flag.
I hope that's not what's needed here.

--1563--

Under a sub's "EL" VDE screen, if I enter "10-" in the field marked
"Baud-restrict hours", CNet assumes I mean "10-31".  It should read
"10-23".

This only happens when I enter "x-".
"x-y" works fine.

I'm not sure if sub's marked with times such as "10-31" will cause
problems elsewhere or not.

--1564--

DA>  9-Mar-94
DA> 10-Mar-94

DA> Needless to say, I've mailed Ken on this one, since this could be a major
DA> problem if any of your uplinks run Squish.  It would mean any message sent
DA> between 01 and 09 would get squashed as a bad message.

What was Ken's reply?

Is the msg-date format a line from BBSText?  Which line #?

If so, you could change something like "%2d-%s-%2d" into "%02-%s-%2d".

If it isn't in BBStext, could Ken be convinced of putting it there?

--1565--

> Item: 3 (1 resp) of subboard "Fido Amiga BBSes: CNet"
> Subj: Call
> From: Mike Wrobel  (Mike Wrobel@1:268/304.0)
> To  : {}
> Date: Wed 09-Mar-1994  4:53p

Mike, did you accidentally add (or remove) 1 line from your BBStext
file?

I believe you wanted to send this msg to "ALL" but CNet picked-up the
next (or previous) line from BBStext and you got the "{}" that is
there, instead.

I'm also seeing msgs here with a subject line of "{}".  Most likely
due to the same problem.

This could mean 100s of your other BBStext file lines are off by one,
as well.

--1566--

JD> It would be nice if someone would post periodically a list of the support
JD> BBSs and HQs of the major Amiga BBS programs.

Name      : CNet-BBS HeadQuarters
BBS       : 1-313-255-2466 (CNet-BBS support, 6-lines all 14.4k+)
Echos     : CNET, CLINKCNETAMIGA, CLINKCNETBETA, CLINKCNETPROG, CNET_BBS
Fidonet   : 1:2410/215
CLink     : 911:7000/0
Fax       : 1-313-537-5942
Voice Info: 1-313-537-6168
Orders    : 1-800-237-6168 (toll-free)
Contact   : Ken Pletzer or Jim Selleck
Latest Ver: CNet v3.05c
US Mail   : Author, Ken Pletzer
          : Perspective Software
          : Box 87175
          : Canton, MI 48187
US Mail   : Sales Info, Jim Selleck
          : Beverly James Products
          : Box 40191
          : Redford, MI 48240

I hope I got all that keyed-in correctly and is current info.

--1567--
BB> sigs at all as a user, even if they exist. It's one of the features I
BB> really like. I am not putting down Cnet. There are alot of things I like
BB> about Cnet. the message areas is not one of them is all. Infact, If cnet
BB> went more like dLG in the message areas, I would probably switch.

You too, are considering switching to CNet?  I thought so.  And just
based on msg-area features?  Sounds like it wouldn't take much for you
to "probably switch".  But that's not what I'm here for.  Just to set
the record straight, here are just a FEW things to investigate...

CNet also allows the SysOp to use (or not use) SIGs.
Users can search/read/browse certain SIGs, certain areas, all areas, all SIGs,
whatever they like.
Different SIGs can exist in the same or different partitions.
Different areas within those SIGs can exist in the same or different partitions.
You can move into 1 SIG, if you like.
You can move into 1 area, if you like.
You can mix other SIGs and areas within SIGs.
You can nest SIGS an infinitely # of levels deep (or not at all).
You can have mile-long lists of areas in 1 SIG.  (And force the callers to wade
through tons of area-titles looking for the 1 they need.)
Or you can neatly sort like-areas into like-groups.
You can jump between SIGs, between areas, between msg and file bases.
You can jump "up" or "down" 1 (or several) nested SIG levels at a time.
You can mix (or not mix) file-areas and msg-areas in the same (or different) SIGs.
You can mix (or not mix) files into msg-areas, or msgs into file-areas.
You can limit which callers are allowed to mix.
You can mix (or not mix) file-SIGs into msg-SIGs, or msg-SIGs into file-SIGs.
SIG-lists and area-lists appear instantly.  No need for the caller to sit and
wait while a special prg is loaded and the list is being generated.
Callers can mark which areas they wish to be searched (or skipped) during new
msgs searches.
SysOps can decide which areas default to 'search' or 'skipped' automatically.
20 users online in the same msg-area are all sharing the same msg-base
info data.  No need to waste RAM (and time) re-loading it 20 times over.
SysOps can quickly allow (or disallow) certain users from
reading/seeing/entering/starting new threads/responding to old threads/ULing/DLing
into certain areas.
SysOps can control that based on access-level ranges, certain access-levels
during certain hours, age ranges, certain baud rates, certain baud rates during
certain hours, certain computer types, certain sex, certain prime or non-prime
time hours, certain user-flags, etc.  Or any combo of 0 or more of any of the above.

Wow!

Of course, you just don't use the features you don't need.  CNet's
executable is STILL smaller than many other BBSs out there.  (I don't
know how the author does it!)

I really don't see the short-comings in CNet that you are trying to
mention.  Where are they E-X-A-C-T-L-Y?

It would probably be much faster/easier for you to mention the
features that you are POSITIVE that CNet doesn't have, than for me to
try and list the 1000s that is does have.

SIGs: CNet has more features in a single section than some BBSs have
ever dreamed of.  Some other BBS authors will tell you, "well, we
don't support SIGs fully (or at all) yet, but we are planning on it
some day."

Inquire.

--1568--
M> Jim: what i would like to see is the JoinLink offer more to the
M> connection.
M> ie letting the JoinLink work for File areas as well a conferencing.

JS> Coincidently, Ken has been working on some new concepts in that area.

Any more info available that can be released to the public at this time?
(I'll understand, if the answer is "no", but I just had to ask.)

JS> However, you are asking for a LOT.  I, too, would like to see full
JS> system networking, but that is a rather tall order when you are using
JS> serial lines for communication.  It would be necessary (for example) when
JS> 2 ten line systems are linked, to establish a procedure whereby users on
JS> BOTH systems could read posts from EITHER system, right?  But if only ONE
JS> serial line is in use to transfer the data, this could mean MASSIVE
JS> delays, right?

I'd be happy if just all the CNet global-cmds could be made to work
for linked systems.

You'd execute a cmd, it would be sent out to the linked BBS specified,
it would send back the results.

If a ton of users all used the 1 data-line that joined the BBSs a
small bottle-neck might occur.  But with such small amounts of data
being sent at a time (1 cmd sent, 1 screen-full of results returned) I
think just a small, delay would be acceptable.  (At 14.4k-28.8k it
wouldn't be much.)  Each packet of info would be sent/received in
turn.  (Those with SysOp-access might be given a #1 priority and be
able to cut in front of other requests.)

The online cmds would maybe work something like:
JUMP 12    (all future cmds are directed towards joinlinked BBS ID #12)
WHO                  (Who's online system #12)
FINGER "Bill Allen"  (Get info about Bill on system #12)
CREDITS, CHAT, AG, AC, OLM, INFO, etc  (All would work as if you
                                        were really online system #12)

JUMP ALL      (all future cmds are sent out to EACH system in the chain)
FINGER "Bill Allen"  (Since you don't know exactly which system he
                      might be on, check them all.)
WHO                  (See the list of everyone.)
OLM Bill Allen       (Find which system he's on, and chat him.)

JUMP BACK     (You are back "home" again to the system you called into.)

(Of course, SysOps would be allowed to mark cmds in BBSMENU as "available, or
not available during joinlinks".)

I have NOT seen anything like any of the above on any BBS software
anywhere.  Nor have I heard anything regarding specific details about
Ken's new plans.

What would you like to see?  And what method used?

--1569--

BB> You'd execute a cmd, it would be sent out to the linked BBS specified, it
BB> would send back the results.

BB> If a ton of users all used the 1 data-line that joined the BBSs a small
BB> bottle-neck might occur.  But with such small amounts of data being sent
BB> at a time (1 cmd sent, 1 screen-full of results returned) I think just a
BB> small, delay would be acceptable.  (At 14.4k-28.8k it wouldn't be much.)
BB> Each packet of info would be sent/received in turn.

Maybe Ken could just add a few new Arexx cmds.
Something that would allow us to 'tap-into' the join-link pipe and
folks could put together their own Arexx-Pfiles to do all kinds of
things.

Other than the new arexx cmds, CNet would not have to be modified in any way.

Arexx> 'JoinLinkSend' <JL-ID number> <cmd>
Arexx> buf=RESULTS

Hmmm.  Actually, just the one new 'JoinLinkSend' cmd could do it all.

Arexx> 'Query' "Enter global cmd:"
Arexx> 'JoinLinkSend' 8 RESULTS
Arexx> 'transmit' RESULTS

The possibilities and powers boggle the mind, with this one.

--1570--

On Sat 12-Mar-1994 11:12a, Pete Baker wrote:
PB> Monitor when you run the utility called  REPAIR_SUB.  It has been my
PB> findings that this utility does not release the ram it uses when it is
PB> finished running.  If you "repair" enough subboards you run out of RAM:
PB> and then the ports will lock up.

On Sat 12-Mar-1994 12:28p, Blue Thunder said to Pete Baker:
BT> Or you end up with less then 800K of memory, as I do.
BT> (Normally sit with 7 1/2 meg free)

You lose over 6.5 megs of free ram?
Or you lose 800K?

Try this:
1)  Add a cmd to bbsmenu like:
    RC, Ram Check   |    {$0 Avail TOTAL >>t:RAM.log}   {*0 t:RAM.log}
2)  Online, run "RC", then "RR", then "RC" again.

I can't produce 6.5M or 800K or even 1K losses.

Does it matter if you use RAM: or non-RAM: at the repair-prompt?
Does it matter if you are RR'ing a large or small sub?
Does it matter if the sub is badly fragmented?

Of course, you can't do this test accurately with other caller(s)
online, moving around the system, or other tasks that might be
allocating and freeing memory.  (Events, Trapdoor, mail, tosser, etc)
Or even YOU moving in and out of subs, etc.  It must be an immediate
"RC" then "RR" then "RC" again.

--1571--

Ken> CNet:spell/
Ken> You forgot the /

There are so many paths/dirs that require a '/', and a few that do NOT.
(It can be hard to remember which are which.  And simple to just plain
accidently forget the '/', even if you do know which are which.)

It would be great if CNet did a little error checking there.
1) If it ends with a ':', leave it as-is.
2) If it does NOT end with a ':', tack-on a '/' automatically.

1-2 lines of C-code, and you'd never have to worry about a forgotten '/'
again.  Anywhere.

--1572--

> Alternate "WHO" cmd...

I haven't had a change to look at this latest release, but I will.

Please consider aligning the "idle mins" columns.
And "hrs + mins" is clearer than "2922 mins".

OLD> 1 My BBS Line #1 (810) 473-2020                Idle 6 Minutes
OLD> 2 My BBS Line #2 (810) 473-2020                Idle 2922 Minutes
OLD> 3 My BBS Line #3 (810) 473-2020                Idle 833 Minutes
OLD> 4 My BBS Line #4 (810) 473-2020                Idle 86 Minutes

NEW> 1 My BBS Line #1 (810) 473-2020                Idle  0 hrs;  6 mins
NEW> 2 My BBS Line #2 (810) 473-2020                Idle 48 hrs; 16 mins
NEW> 3 My BBS Line #3 (810) 473-2020                Idle 13 hrs;  9 mins
NEW> 4 My BBS Line #4 (810) 473-2020                Idle  1 hrs; 26 mins

--1573--

> Ken's looking for toss *.MO# info...

Did you get that info?

If not, there are backbone echoes called "BBS_STANDARDS" or "FIDO".
Some VERY knowledgeable (IBM) folks can answer questions there.

--1574--

MB> Spell-checker...
MB> In 2 colors mode, I can't see the highlight when it highlights the word.

Ken should have used INVERTED (not highlighted) text there.

You will then always be assured that both 1 and 2 are visible
regardless of your color settings:
 1) Color-X text over Color-Y background.
 2) Color-Y text over Color-X background.

I wish I knew an easy fix.

--1575--

MB> Cnet Toss is my choice, and will be moving to Cnet Toss very soon,
MB> although
MB> it still needs features added to it! External program support like
MB> when a netmail is address to RAID.

Mario, how would that work?  I'd like to see this remain as EXTERNAL
as possible.  Like a config-file, where you could specify the "To:"
field ("RAID" in this case), and specify what external prg to run when
it is found.  (Or is that how they all work?  I've never used that
feature before.)


MB> AreaFix ReScan.

Someone, please list EVERY AreaFix-option you've ever seen any AreaFix use?
-R -Q -L?  (And their definitions.)
As well as EVERY option you can think of as being handy.

Thanks.

--1576--

MM> I'd like to have the ability to configure a message or UD area that CAN
MM> NOT be dropped with the dr command.

Not only for drop/join, but I think carbon-copy should also have an
additional flag, too.

I think Ken needs to complete the full set:

Join Status:   Def. Joined
               Def. Dropped
               Forced Joined

Carbon Copies: Def. ON
               Def. OFF
               Forced ON
               Forced OFF

Am I forgetting any?

--1577--

RA> - addition of user's handle/name to the ItemHeader structure so
RA> that scanned/browsed/listed items may be capable of showing user's name
RA> beside it.

I'd love that.  I was "almost" positive that I saw 1 (but only 1)
CNet-BBS that had some how already achieved that.  Don't know how,
don't know where.  Maybe I'm seeing things.

Would a feature like that also have the side-effect of allowing:
> BG BY "Bill Beogelein"
to work even in networked subs, where that user doesn't call that BBS directly?

If so, maybe that would be more "convincer" for Ken to add it.

--1578--

I would also find "range of subs" Invite/UnIniting very handy.

I would also find it handy to flip a flag in a user's acct and quickly
give/take their access to an ENTIRE network at once.  If someone
abuses Fidonet, they don't have any access to ANY Fidonet echo.

I guess each user's acct would need flags like:
FIDONET : read/write/both/neither
CLINK   : read/write/both/neither
AmigaNet: read/write/both/neither
UUCP    : read/write/both/neither
WhatEver: read/write/both/neither

--1579--

MZ> Hi everybody.  I have one question.  Is there a Cnet version for either
MZ> macintosh or IBM, preferably Mac.  If there is, that would be awesome.  I
MZ> want to start a bbs but want to use something good.

I believe both types of msgs are highly illegal here:
1) Talk of specific Mac/IBM CNet features.
2) Even asking if a Mac/IBM CNet release exists.

I feel that #2 type msgs SHOULD be allowed, though, but I don't believe they are.

I know of absolutely NO Mac/IBM CNet software.
(Others have claimed "a friend" actually saw it up and even running.)

I know that a possible IBM version is planned for some later, unannouced date.
(That msg is directly from the Amiga-CNet author himself.)

I am NOT aware that the IBM development has even STARTED.
(So I'll let you guess how long away a complete, working release is.)

I can't imagine why CNet's author would be keeping all this info a
big, big secret, if IBM-CNet already existed.  What would he be
gaining?

When someone makes a claim, ask what source are they quoting for their info.

In the meantime, why not run the already completed, full-featured,
Amiga version instead?  (Instead of the non-existant, unannounced,
unstarted IBM version?)

--1580--

You can make certain cmds (usually available only from the main-menu)
available from ALL prompts by modifing your CNet:BBSMENU
"2; Available everywhere" cmd list.

> UL, User List | {#2 Pfiles:BBS/ulist}

You can also allow mail-verification and join-conf use from any prompt.
> MV, Mail Verify  | {#2 pfiles:bbs/mverify}
> JOINConf         | {#2 pfiles:bbs/join}

I'd like to see a new CNet-philosophy like:
1) If a cmd isn't specifically limited to Main-Menu use,
   make it global instead.

Why not?  Why jump back to MAIN all the time?  Do it right from ANY prompt.
Why "lose your place" while reading msgs.
Jump in and out of the Join-Conf right from the "response/pass" prompt.

--1581--

If I create a BBSMENU equate entry like:
>  FOO~Q;B;1;E

When executed online, "FOO" is NOT placed into CNet's history-buffer.

Users cannot rerun "FOO" with a handy UpArrow+RETURN.

(They just get the last "E".)

I don't know if it "has to be" like that due to the history/parsing routines,
but I have A LOT of handy equates that can never use UpArrow+RETURN.

--1582--

BA> If I get 10 requests from users, each asking that I U/L 4 of my latest
BA> pfiles, I just can't do all 40.  I hate try and pick 10 and ignore 30
BA> others.

MH> I'd like to help, Bill, if there's anything I can do for you... I'm
MH> planning on freq'ing allof your files shortly

Do you have (or are you) an ADS/SAN file site?
If you D/L directly from 810-473-2020, you'll have the latest releases, and
I'd love to see them put into ADS/SAN and get quick worldwide distribution.

If that's not possible, please make them "easy to access" and/or "FREE D/Ls"
on your system, or U/L them e-v-e-r-y-w-h-e-r-e.

Anything that helps get these pfiles into the hands of the SysOps that need
them.



Also, for the pfiles that I do U/L here, I'd like to address each of them
specifically to the 1 user that will test and report new ideas or bugs for
that 1 pfile.  If you'd like to volunteer, pick the pfile(s) that interested
you the most, and if there isn't already a "beta-tester name" mentioned in
that pfile's docs, please volunteer for it.

--1583--

MM> I have a few bases here that are read-only, but the problem being is that
MM> occasionally I've found myself in these bases, and without thinking,
MM> starting to respond to posts..  Even though I have the post/respond access
MM> levels set to NOT allows anybody to post or respond except the right
MM> people, because of the Sysop access, this get's overridden.

MM> My Co finds himself in this same predicament alot - even though level 30
MM> is excluded from the post/respond groups, he can go ahead and do it
MM> anyways if he's not really thinking about it at the moment..

MM> There would be nice if there was some override for this so that you could
MM> nullify the maintenance flags in certain bases..

Mark, I have the same problem, but I'd like to see a solution that
would be far simpler than adding more flags to every CNet sub.
(Simpler for Ken to add to CNet, and simpler for us to use.)  (And it
would help out in *ALL* maintenance-override situations, not just the
1 msg-base-post-access situation.)

Let me know what you think....

Whenever you execute a cmd online that occurs due to your maintenance/
sysop-flag overriding a current limitation, CNet would display a
reminder like:

BBSTEXT> Maintenance/sysop-flag being overridden.

You, of course, could change that to:
BBSTEXT> {nothing}
or

BBSTEXT> BELL BELL BELL
BBSTEXT> Maintenance/sysop-flag being overridden.
BBSTEXT> Hit [RETURN] to continue
BBSTEXT> BELL BELL BELL

(or whatever, simple, or complex warning-notice you wanted.)

--1584--
When CNet sends its areafix report, and I scan-list my new mail, could
the "From" and/or "Subject" fields show more info?  (In case we are
getting areafix-reports from several systems, they won't all look
alike.)

OLD> 70 Mon 14-Mar-1994  4:01a Areafix              Areafix Report
OLD> 71 Tue 15-Mar-1994  4:21a Areafix              Areafix Report
OLD> 72 Wed 16-Mar-1994  4:29a Areafix              Areafix Report
OLD> 73 Thu 17-Mar-1994  4:55a Areafix              Areafix Report
OLD> 74 Fri 18-Mar-1994  4:09a Areafix              Areafix Report

But rather:
NEW> 70 Mon 14-Mar-1994  4:01a Areafix@1:2410/207   CNet-BBS Areafix Report
NEW> 71 Tue 15-Mar-1994  4:21a Areafix@1:2410/215   CNet-BBS Areafix Report
NEW> 72 Wed 16-Mar-1994  4:29a Areafix@1:893/12     CNet-BBS Areafix Report
NEW> 73 Thu 17-Mar-1994  4:55a Areafix@1:904/339    CNet-BBS Areafix Report
NEW> 74 Fri 18-Mar-1994  4:09a Areafix@1:120/10     CNet-BBS Areafix Report

(Or whatever info can fit into the available field sizes.)

Also, could my file (if it exists) called "SysText:sys.AF_Report" be
tacked onto the bottom of the report?  (Containing BBS info, dates,
numbers, stats, restrictions, whatever.)

Thanks

--1585--

How would I get TrapDoor to do ALL of the following:

1) Dial all my feeds, in sequence, repeating each one 20 times.
2) Wait 120 seconds between calls.
3) Receive incoming human-callers during that period.
   (This is VERY important for long-term dialing sessions.)
4) Remove each one from the list 1-by-1, if any of the following
   occurs with that 1 feed:
      A) A successful connection is made
      B) 20 busy signals
      C) 3 occurrences of "no answer", "no dial-tone", "voice",
         or other problem.

I would think that would represent a pretty common, "real-world" type
need.  Hopefully, common enough to allow it to be done just with
TrapDoor/Poll/Tell.  (Or could someone write an arexx script for me?)

Thanks

--1586--

Q> - A 24h clock for the idle-window.

Some like 12hr styles, some like 24hr.
Maybe make it obey user #1's "6) Time format : AM/PM format" flag.
(If the SysOp likes a certain format online, he'll probably want it on the
idle screen too.)

Do you mean the title-bar clock, or the big-clock?
(My suggestion would cover both.)

Q> - Users should be able to skip a subboard in NS which is still not
Q> possible
Q>   (users get really annoyed if they MUST read all ibm lists etc.)

Please give more details on that.  Why can't they [S]kip and even [D]rop now?

Q>   Couldn't you make it optional wether to use a "allfiles" list or a
Q>   global check? I don't want to know how much time it takes on non040
Q>   systems to enter every subboard, read the data and compare it.

Does turning on "headers/items in memory" help?
Enough?  At all?

Q> By this you won't have to go through all posts if you want
Q> to use the "edit other flags"...

There're probably a million different ways a VDE could be organized.
Some people will probably use "edit other flags" much less than the
others, but for others, much more.

You can currently hit up-arrow and skip to the bottom of a VDE, too.

--1587--

> 1   - Fido Comp: HST Modems             2   + Fido Comp: ZyXel Modems
> 3   - Fido Comp: Supra Modems           4   + Fido Comp: High Speed Modems
> 5   + Fido Comp: Prac. Per. Modems      6   - Fido Comp: Modem Sale
> 7   + Fido Comp: Zoom(tm) Modems        8   + Fido Comp: [RESERVED]
> 9   + Fido Comp: Internet              10   + Fido Comp: BBS Law
>11   + Fido Comp: BBS Standards         12   + Fido Comp: 1:2410 SysOp-Only
>13   + Fido Comp: UseNet<-->FidoNet     14   + Fido Comp: Fidonet Policy
>15   + Fido Comp: Hydra Protocol        16   + Fido Comp: Bi-Modem Protocol
>17   + Fido Comp: Hard-Drives           18   + Fido Comp: Hard-Drive Sale

Here's a wacky problem...

I want to add a blank line before #9 and then again before #15 to
"off-set" similarly titled subs.

How?

I tried adding \n1 onto those title-lines, but the next line starts
over at column #2 instead of column #1.

--1588--

Q> - A 24h clock for the idle-window.

Some like 12hr styles, some like 24hr.
Maybe make it obey user #1's "6) Time format : AM/PM format" flag.
(If the SysOp likes a certain format online, he'll probably want it on the
idle screen too.)

Do you mean the title-bar clock, or the big-clock?
(My suggestion would cover both.)

Q> - Users should be able to skip a subboard in NS which is still not
Q> possible
Q>   (users get really annoyed if they MUST read all ibm lists etc.)

Please give more details on that.  Why can't they [S]kip and even [D]rop now?

Q>   Couldn't you make it optional wether to use a "allfiles" list or a
Q>   global check? I don't want to know how much time it takes on non040
Q>   systems to enter every subboard, read the data and compare it.

Does turning on "headers/items in memory" help?
Enough?  At all?

Q> By this you won't have to go through all posts if you want
Q> to use the "edit other flags"...

There're probably a million different ways a VDE could be organized.
Some people will probably use "edit other flags" much less than the
others, but for others, much more.

You can currently hit up-arrow and skip to the bottom of a VDE, too.

{...continued the following day...}

BA> Do you mean the title-bar clock, or the big-clock?
BA> (My suggestion would cover both.)

Q> I mean both and you know over here in europe NOBODY cares about a 12h clock
Q> (ok on the continent :) hello GBR)

But for use everywhere (not just GBR) my suggestion would make
everybody happy worldwide.  (Hey, I've finally managed to make
everyone in the world happy at once.  And they said it couldn't be
done!)

BA> Please give more details on that.  Why can't they [S]kip and even [D]rop
BA> now?

Q> When I am in NS in 3.05 I don't get the
Q>
Q> Abort, Drop, Post, Quit here, Skip dir, [CONTINUE]: prompt as you know, so
HOW
Q> should i skip the subboard from the normal
Q>
Q> Browse (*, Download, Examine, Grab, Quit, Read)> -prompt?

Do you mean v3.05c instead?
I DO get both prompts when using "NS":
1> BROWSE: [D]ownload, [*]mark, [E]xamine, [G]rab, [Q]uit, [R]ead
2> [A]bort, [D]rop, [P]ost, [Q]uit-here, [S]kip-dir:
You don't get #2 at all?

BA> Does turning on "headers/items in memory" help?
BA> Enough?  At all?

Q> I simply don't want all subboards infos held in ram all the time.. would a
Q> allfiles-file be too much? It was already there.

Maybe just the big ones in RAM?
According to Ken, allfiles-file was incomplete and had bugs.

I really don't think he's going to re-add all that code.
(Nor do I think he should.)
But maybe he will.

BA> There're probably a million different ways a VDE could be organized.
BA> Some people will probably use "edit other flags" much less than the
BA> others, but for others, much more.

Q> Yes but in DOPUS you propably like "Directories First" more than "Files
First"
Q> (if you get what i mean).

In a VDE I'd prefer "Most-used first" and "Least-used last", but who's to say
what is "most/least used"?

--1589--

Ernest wishes to report the following bug.

I'm also seeing a misplaced _buser3 file in "MAIL:" every once in a while.
(But NOT elsewhere.)

-v-v-v- CUT HERE -v-v-v-

EG> From: Ernest Gainey  (Ernest Gainey@1:260/118.0)
EG> Date: Fri 25-Mar-1994  9:42a
EG>
EG> Has anyone noticed with 3.05c.. that they occassionally get random _buser3
EG> files floating around there harddrives?
EG>
EG> Every so often I get one appearing in MAIL: and today I had one amaint adopted
EG> in one of my udbase areas...
EG>
EG> Any particular reason why cnets creating these in random places instead of the
EG> users home directory?
EG>
EG> --- CNet/3
EG>  * Origin: The Aquarium/AWE BBS: (716)/885-8369 (1:260/118)

-^-^-^- CUT HERE -^-^-^-

--1590--


S> telnet  | {#4amitcp:bin/telnet}

We need a new 2-digit 'getuser' for 'the passed cmd line args'.
I know of none.

I'd use it in a bazillion places.

In arexx it is currently something like:
offset = 1302246+61
args=""
do i=offset to offset+(61*5) by 61     /* Join all the CNet passed args */
   'getUser' i
   j=RESULT
   args= strip(args j)
end
(I'll let you try and get that into DOS or BBSMENU format.)

This arexx code broke when CNet changed from v2.63, to v3.0x (Ugh), and then
again for v3.05.  (Double Ugh)

This would be MUCH simpler and guaranteed for life:
> telnet | {#4amitcp:bin/telnet %100}
How do we get Ken to add this to CNet?
I've asked for it several times.

--1591--


JS>   That makes sense... but where is the information the CNet needs to
JS> actually grant or deny admittance?  Sure would be nice if there was an
JS> easy way to send THAT over!!

I believe that is in each user's mail:users/*/_buser3 files.
So there's nothing that can be 'copied over'.

About the only thing I can think of is to do it by-hand...

> Type ME!
> Open printer (or file) buffer
> Type ME
> Move into that sub, and re-invite all the same people 1-by-1.

INVITE and UNINVITE sure would be handy if it allowed ranges for the sub # OR
for the user #s.
I'd like to see both:
> INVITE 1,25,67,123-135    1-15
Invite those users into subs 1-15.

The above SINGLE cmd could replace 240 separate INVITE cmd executions.
(Not counting having to enter each sub 1-by-1.)
Yikes!

--1592--

DOS-scripts and 'ChangeTaskPri' and 'Stack' cmds are nice, but I feel it would
be a commonly enough needed item to add 'stack' and 'priority' settings to
each:
1) Config/Archive entry.
AND
2) Pfile VDEs.

Count me as voting YES!

Of course if we had an MCI code for 'priority' and 'stacksize', we could also
do:
3) Pfiles run from within text-files.
AND even
4) Settings for each BBSMENU entry.

--1593--

JS> The TOME command modifier does NOT work properly inside NETWORK subs.

JS> Turns out that many of the read and scan RANGE commands are for LOCAL subs
JS> only with CNet and not for use in Network situations.

Here are the 'situations':
                                                      READ MESS TOME
1) A member of your BBS posts in a local sub       : works
2) A member of your BBS posts in a network sub     : works
3) A non-member of your BBS posts in a network sub : does NOT work

And the words "does NOT work" or "does NOT work properly" are mislead.
It's not a BUG, it's just something CNet can not do, nor was it
designed to do.  (yet)
It's very unfortunate.  I too could use #3 many times.

But Allen *IS* on "his own system"...

AM> The above command (read mess tome) should give me all of the messages
AM> addressed to me in the current area, yes?  No!  At least not on my system.

Allen, are you saying #1 or #2 do NOT work?  At all?
They work fine here under v3.05c.

--1594--

MB> GUI is there to make things similiar, not going through lines of text
MB> to make a quick change. I think Cnet 3.0 Pro stands up to its name.
MB> CNET 3.0 PROFESSIONAL

RA>         I think this is the first time we've disagreed on something,
RA> Mario.  I think Ken should keep CNet with as many options as possible.
RA> GUI's make things easier for some, but I prefer the SHELL/CED combination
RA> also for _most_ things.

I've always had mixed feelings about GUIs.

I like the look. I like the fact that they are easy for "beginners" (whenever
we try and tackle something new, we're ALL "beginners" again).  I like the
point/click methods.

Whenever I need to get a list of 100 (or 1000) things config'ed, I like the
non-GUI approach, instead.

And I'm against have DOUBLE methods for everything (GUI and non-GUI).
More [Y,n,c]            
I would be in favor of:
1) Running a little tool that converted my text-lists into the data files.
    (I'd use that when I first set-up a BBS or whenever I need to add 100s
    of new values.)
2) Use the point/click GUI for the day-to-day minor additions and tweeks.

--1595--

JS> 1.  Excelsior now has RIP.  That should be some form of motivation for us,
JS> no?  Like it or not, non-computer-literate people are flocking to the
JS> stores to buy their very own 486 system with a modem, and these people are
JS> eagerly searching for BBS's to log onto.  The new crowd won't stand for
JS> command lines, they want those spiffy GUI menus and buttons.  Lets give
JS> 'em to 'em!

I believe RIP will be a big, long, major project for CNet.  Six months
maybe?  I'm in favor of it, but in the meantime, do you think we
convince Ken to change "ET;2" (or whatever menu it should be placed
under) into:

> 0) ASCII                                1) C=64 GFX
> 2) IBM GFX                              3) Amiga Int'l
> 4) RIP menus

And, of course, CNet would have to display the correct
"SysText:Menus/tt#.Main" menu files, as it already does.

and change:
>Terminal [A]miga, [C]BM, [I]BM, [S]kyPix, [R]ip, [none]:

I shouldn't take Ken more than a few ***MINUTES*** to do.

I *STILL* talk to folks today that don't realize CNet v3.0 (and even
v2.0) can send all the RIP codes you want.  TODAY!  NOW!  ALREADY!

Ken could add LOCAL rip-viewing at a later date.

Maybe before that time a RIP emulation-library will be avaiable and Ken
will save tons of work.

Maybe before that time an Amiga RIP-term will be available and SysOps
could use that as CNet's local-RIP-viewer.  (via dialing-in, or via a
null-modem cable, or via software null-modem device.)

Maybe before that time RIP will be greatly changed anyway.

In the meantime, 100s of callers can enjoy RIP TODAY!

Even those that don't use it, will see it mentioned in the log-in
prompt, and "ET" screens.  Those that DO use it, will see CNet
definitely can send RIP characters lines/circles/menus/icons/boxes/
graphics/3D point&click menus ALREADY!

JS> Meanwhile, Bill, hundreds of new sysops will be Excelsior instead of
JS> CNet because it has RIP now and we don't.

So what's the solution?

1) "Adding" remote-RIP by changing a few text menus- IMMEDIATELY.
2) Adding local-RIP by massive new coding over the next few months.
3) Wait until #2 before we do #1.

I'm all in favor of local-RIP viewing.
But it's not going to happen before next week.
But #1 *CAN* happen next week.  (Or even this afternoon.)

That's all that I'm saying.  Do #1 IMMEDIATELY, while work continues on #2.
Has work even started on #2?  We can't expect Ken to do everything at once.
Or finish a major project like #2 within a few days.

I hope I didn't give the impression that I was against #2 happening
(now or ever), just because I'm in favor of #1.  I'm in favor of both.
But #1 TODAY, and #2 "as soon as possible".  It's a logical two step
process.

#1 will immediately show every new SysOp, old SysOp, as well as every
caller to every CNet everywhere, that Ken is serious about doing #2.

I feel that no mention of local-RIP or remote-RIP anywhere in CNet's
code or menus makes it look like it was forgotten about entirely.
(That's not the case, I know.)  *THAT'S* what might cause "hundreds of
new sysops to look at Excelsior" which already has *both*.

Don't cause CNet to "sit on it's hands" in the meantime.
Do #1 I-M-M-E-D-I-A-T-E-L-Y.

--1596--

I'm all in favor of new, powerful CNetToss features.

JS> We will be FORCING them to
JS> go either to other Amiga software which runs more powerful tossers, or
JS> over to IBM systems.  And the ones we lose will be the BIG systems,
JS> because they are the ones that need the extra power.

I placed a vote-topic on FW regarding this.
As of 5 mins ago, only 3.1% of the users were even using X/Ifido at all.

> Users voting:  25.0 %
> #:Possible answers              : Votes:Percent
> 1:I use CNetToss                :   109: 43.2 %
> 2:I use X/Ifido                 :     8:  3.1 %

I agree that many of those may be BIG, BIG systems.
But I don't know how many of those will DROP CNet entirely (or the
Amiga entirely) just because FUTURE releases may not be able to use X/
Ifido.  I'm sure some will just stick with whatever the last CNet
release is that still supports X/Ifido.  I'm sure some will switch to
CNetToss.

I'm sure some votes were just "stragglers" that just haven't switched
to CNetToss yet, for no real reason.  (I was one for a LONG time.)

So I don't really know what the "DROP CNET" factor will be, but I bet
it'll be VERY, VERY small.  (Maybe 25% of the 3.1% shown?  0.7%?)

Small enough to be worth the work it'll save Ken in upgrading X/Ifido
each time it needs it?  (I don't know how much time/effort is
involved.)

Small enough to be worth the shortcomings (if any) that CNet will have
to keep in order to being backward compatible with X/Ifido each time?

Maybe.  Just some things (and numbers) to consider and kick around.

--1597--

JS> Bill, this point is not ABOUT XFido and IFido at all!!  Its about
JS> CNetToss LACKING certain "industry standard" tosser features which make it
JS> UNUSABLE for the big honker hub type systems.

I agree:
BB> I'm all in favor of new, powerful CNetToss features.

I agree:
BB> I agree that many of those may be BIG, BIG systems.

JS> Those people CAN'T just "switch" because CNetToss can't
JS> handle the job, yet!

I agree:
BB> I'm sure some will just stick with whatever the last CNet release is that
BB> still supports X/Ifido.
(I mention those as the one's that "can't switch".)

JS> The list of enhancements needed is NOT long, actually, and I'm sure Ken
JS> could knock out the code in a couple of days with no problem.

I was under the assumption that v3.1 was a LONG ways off.
Maybe 1-month before beta-testers got it, and maybe 2-months before the public got it.
(I hope I'm wrong, but just trying to be realistic.)
Or does Ken have plans to enhance just CNetToss and release it alone?
(I highly recommend that, if v3.1 is 3+ months away from a public release.)
It's great that Ken can add features in 2 days.
But if the *public* doesn't see them for 3 months, that's what matters.
(I know things take time to write, and time to beta-test.)

BB> So I don't really know what the "DROP CNET" factor will be, but I bet
BB> it'll be VERY, VERY small.   (Maybe 25% of the 3.1% shown?  0.7%?)

JS>  Those percentages are not meaningful in this situation.  If Future World
JS> BBS were to drop the Amiga and go to an IBM platform, that would be a loss
JS> of some infinitessimal percentage (0.01% ??)

I can't include Future-World itself in *ANY* of those kinds of statistics.
It is a very unique case and not "just a BBS" or "just a BIG BBS".
It *IS* CNet itself.

I hope I didn't sound like "who cares if x% of the (big or small) systems drop CNet".
I didn't mean to.

--1598--

MM> Something like a 'forced' flag in the VDE would be great, along with maybe
MM> an expiry date for removal of the forced flag.  Would seem more logical.

MM> True, but I found a way around that too.  Should there be a NON-FORCED
MM> newsfile ahead of the MCI forced one, and they abort it, Cnet proceeds to
MM> skip past the forced one.  Bug, or unfortunate side-effect of a user fast
MM> tracking?

Count my 1 vote AGAINST adding a new always-new-flag.
AGAINST adding a 2nd variable as a date to override that flag.
AGAINST adding a 3rd no-skip flag.

CNet can already do all of the above.  It just needs to be mentioned in the manual.

Along with very handy things like...

JS> Now, as you pointed out, it is possible to make the news file recurring
JS> simply by changing the date into the future, which I like because it
JS> allows us an additional option, which in effect is that the file is
JS> recurring UNTIL a specific date when it REVERTS to normal.

--1599--

When sending routed-netmail, I'd like to see CNet mention:
CNet>  Routing 1:120/14 thru 1:2410/666.

--EOF--

Thursday 31-Mar-94 20:26:57

-Bill "Mr. BBS" Beogelein, 810-473-2020, 2-line HST 14.4k USR-DS, 1:2410/207

