
Thursday 22-Jul-93 00:32:16

--1100--

P> this new version is a tad slower.. Previous versions
P> would import 1.3 messages per second. Tests so far have
P> resulted in .67 and .79 messages per second imported.

I'd love to see CNet also write a "tally-line" to SysData:logs/maint...
> 14-Jul  7:30a  IMPORTED:     298 msgs overall in 206 secs (1.4/sec)
> 14-Jul  7:30a  EXPORTED:     298 msgs overall in 206 secs (1.4/sec)

P> This wont be so bad when the tosser is complete.

Ken, are we talking days, weeks or months until this is available?
No hurry, I'll just hold off on the DOS/Arexx scripts I plan on writing if the
CNet tosser isn't too far off.

--1101--

Does anyone else get callers that reply to my mail with things like:

Bill> You didn't describe your last UL at all.

Them> Right before I UL'ed, CNet said:
Them> "Describing your uploads now is OPTIONAL:"
Them> so decided not to.

Or do I just get them?

Could that prompt be worded better/differently?

--1102--

Any plans on having cleanfido use calls to DeleteFile() instead of
many calls to the DOS c:delete cmd?  I don't know how much of a speed
improvement this would be for systems with 200+ subs.

Am I correct in assuming all CleanFido does is:  delete all the msgs in
my tmp dirs?

In my case, can I replace it with "Delete TmpMail:#?/#?.MSG"?

--1103--

> the separate "allfiles" and "newfiles" structures.  The FIND command
> now uses the subboard header structures, in which is stored the first
> 9 characters of each filename.
> The BAD news is that the match-string must appear in the first 9
> characters of a filename in order for it to be "found."  This MAY
> be increased to 12 characters before 3.0 ... working on it.

Whatever the final char-limit ends up being, the input the user gives should
also be chopped to this #.
So that "FIND MyFileNameExactly.LHA" will still work.


BB> Bill, what about pattern matching??  I think we need to give MORE input
BB> space!!  You would do things like
BB> (test#?|what#?) to find aything beginning test or what ...

I didn't know you were (or currently) going to support (|).  That's great!

Well, I've (once again) lost track of what is "current done" VS "will be done"
VS "suggestions".  So I'll just post the what I'd consider to be ideal....

1) FIND will search the full 30 (or whatever) char filenames.

2) If this is going to slow things down (or cost too much memory) then "only
the 1st x chars" get searched.

Depending on which of the above you go with, it will effect the following
ideas...

*FULL* wildcard searching.
Average Amiga users can use ? and #?.
Average IBM users can use ? and *.
Pro users can use the full pattern matching ? #? * | ~ () % #() (|) ~() and so
forth.  (I often need to do 2-4 searches because I'm not exactly certain under
what name something might be.  "OR" and "AND" support would cover this in 1
search.)  (If FULL pattern matching is going to slow things down too much,
maybe partial-full?)

If a user's input contains wildcards they are used.
If a user's input does NOT contain wildcards then a "substring search" is
done.  (If his string appears ANYWHERE in the filename, a match is shown.)

No file is listed more than once, regardless of how many times a pattern match
is found.  (Don't laugh,  CNet's "Z" cmd still does this.  Do a "Z" for "DOS"
and if it is found 3 times in a line, the same line is listed over and over
again.  I read it the 1st time.  If I'm already going to get 1 bazillion
matches, I don't need each one listed again and again so that I get 3
bazillion.)

A user should NEVER run into things like "FIND MyExactFileName.LHA" isn't
found because "you entered TOO MUCH info, and only the 1st x chars were needed
and searched for".  Here at FW, do "FIND lastcaller.lha".  It'll never show a
match.  But the file does exist.  If the user's input is chopped to only
allowed x chars to be entered, then a match would be found.  (An unfortunate
limitation of #2.)  (Wildcard chars should NOT be counted as "chars" during
this "chop".)  Maybe "chopping" isn't the answering.  But "FIND
lastcaller.lha" should definitely show matches some how.  It is ironic that an
EXACT, CHAR-FOR-CHAR FULL match is shown as "file not found".

If FIND is going to search for something other than what the user entered, it
should say so:
> FIND lastcaller.lha
> Searching for "lastcalle*"...   (or "*lastcall*" or whatever)
Just so that he knows what's really happening.

And maybe most important, exactly how many prompts are we now NOT going to be
able to run FIND from?  I REALLY found this handy as a global cmd.  I used it
everywhere.

--1104--

A> 1) Have multiple netmail areas.  You could set up an area for netmail
A>    that would be configured as being a specific net.  To send/read
A>    TrumpNet netmail, I would go to the trumpnet base, etc...etc...

I'd love this, but for another reason.  Just to keep a copy of all the netmail
I (and others) $end.  Search, sort, purge, scan, browse, read, date/time
stamps, etc.

Currently, users tell me "store it off-line in 1 (or 1000s) of plain ascii
text files" or "print it all out on tons of paper".  Hardly good "solutions".

--1105--

RB> And also, I know OFF is not common, but how
RB> can I automatically have it log them off??  I tried {&nOFF!} and it
RB> doesn't work..  I tried OFF, BYE, O! ect.  Whats the deal?

In arexx it should be 'DropCarrier'.

{&n} only works with cmds in BBSMENU "2; Available everywhere".
I sure wish it worked with the others.  (If the MCI text-file was called at a
type n menu, then all type n BBSMENU cmds would work.)

I was suprised to see that OFF wasn't a type #2 cmd.  It is common enough to
warrant such.  Maybe done as it was for "safety puposes".

Try {%0 31-12-99} to dropcarrier.  (But it'll only work until 31Dec99)

--1106--
J> Is it possible to make a vote topic mandatory ?

And then, of course, a new per-user flag has to be added.  Determining which
users do/don't have post-mandatory-vote access.

I think bugging them with "Vote on new topics [Yes]?" during every log-in
takes care of this.  They basically get the idea:

> If you vote now, you won't be asked over and over again.
> Vote on new topics [Yes]?

But I WOULD like to see something exactly the opposite of your suggestion.
When anyone posts a vote-topic, they would also be asked:
> Inform users of this topic during log-in [No]?

It couldn't be any worse than the existing "ALL new vote topics are flagged
during log-in".

I'd gladly allow 100 vote-topics to be posted.
(As long as most, or all, aren't going to bother the user during this next 100
calls.)

Removing {#2 Pfiles:bbs/Vote} entirely, isn't a "solution".

As a 'partial solution' I've changed that line in systext:sys.welcome to:
{T15 #5} {JL 99} {T22 #3} {JL 99}     {#2 Pfiles:bbs/Vote}     {99}

Level 0-4, (new) callers aren't bothered with it.
And no one (regardless of level) is bothered until after their 3rd call.
(A lengthy new-user questionairre, tons of news files, etc.  They don't need
to immediately start answering tons of vote topics, too.)

--1107--

> Geez, how long have you been running CNET?  An hour?

Does that matter?  Many hours.

There's a trillion other little things that I don't know about CNet.  They
just aren't mentioned anywhere and the system is far too big to assume "you
should just know it already".

Can you explain how AG works?  An extremely busy 10-line system can show LOWER
graphs than a little used 2-line system.

Or:

Here on FW, I often see all lines in use.  Yet the HIGHEST the graph ever gets
is about 50%.

And before you ask, I rarely reset it.  It just takes too many days to
'build-up' to a reasonable average again.

I wish it had some kind of a "continuous reset" function.  At any given hour,
the graph would show THAT HOUR'S most recent setting.  The whole graph would
always reflect the last 24 hrs (or maybe 2-3 days).  You could TRULY see if
your system is being used more (or less) than before.  (This is NOT
the same as:  a full, manual (ugh) reset every x days, setting
everything back to absolute 0, and then waiting x days for the graph
to show some decent values again, at which point, you just reset to
all 0s again.)

Maybe do something like...
If it's 10pm now, the 8pm line shows 8PM TODAY only.  Not the last 134
8pm settings averaged together, where big increases or big decreases
are just averaged in and never even get noticed.

Again, I'm just guessing at how this whole thing works.

Also very handy would be "maximum peak level" indicators.  A "-" char
high above each bar would show the "highest value ever".  Did your 4-
line system *EVER* hit 100% at 8pm?  Or was 75% the alltime max?
(Even though the overall average only shows 30%.)  It would be an
excellent way to tell if/when you need to add more lines.  It would
also help inform users of things like, "Call at 9am.  There has
N-E-V-E-R been 100% usage (all lines busy) at 9am".

Also handy would be (optional) graphs for each line ("AG 4")
independantly.  Is your ONLY 14.4k line swamped with 100% usage?  Or
are more 2400bps modems need instead?  Should more of the lines be
moved over to 'paying-only' lines?  Or are the 'public-open' lines
swamped?  More HSTs?  More v32bis lines?

(It's not uncommon for 6-20 lines systems to have only a few 14.4k
modems and the rest 2400bps.)

Each per-node graph would only use <600 bytes of disk space.

--1108--

Ken, please consider changing the default from "[NONE]" into "[The
Most Likely Match]", whenever the input entered by the user only
matches the first x chars of a single user's name.

> FI Jim S
>
> 1.  Jim Mulhearn
> 2.  Jim Rainey
> 3.  Jim Ridge
> 4.  Jim Selleck
> 5.  Jim Weatherwax
> 6.  Jimbo
>
> Enter number, name, +, - or [Jim Selleck]:

The only name matching my "Jim S" is "Jim Selleck".  It is probably
more likely that I'm looking for him, instead of the current default
of "[NONE]".


D> And what happens on the system that also has a Jim Smith, Jim Sanderson,
D> Jim Schulenkle, etc.

Then, and only then, would CNet work as it does now, providing no "most likely
guess".  Of course, "FINGER Jim Sa" would hit correctly EVERY TIME.

Anything is better than CNet's current method:
USER> FI Bill Allen Beogelei      (<- left off 1 last letter "n")
CNET> Gee, I don't know, which of these 6 users did you mean?
Chances are, the user meant "Bill Allen Beogelein".

S> Don't forget SOME sort of quit or abort option is needed...

Hmmmm.  I haven't thought of that.  Maybe "0" == abort.

BA> Enter number, name, +, - or [Jim Selleck]:

UP and DOWN cursor-keys would be handy and intuitive, alternates in
addition to allowing "-" and SHIFT (ugh) "+".

--1109--

H> An ARexx command called "WRITEMESSAGE {n}" where it will enter the editor,
H> asking for a subject and such, and place it in physical subboard N.

I'd use this one heavily.  But since we can already use Arexx to get variables
for name/subject/etc, and call the editor, the syntax really only needs to be
"WRITEMESSAGE {textfile} {phy sub #}"
(Or I'll take docs on how to do it in C.)

H> Have CNet keep track of, in GETUSERS:
H>   A> Last sytem reboot.
H>   B> Number of calls since last reboot.

I always wondered why "calls" were left out of "AM" for
Last/Setup/Period/Total/Current.  Keeping an eye on # of calls your system
gets has to be at least as important as some of the other 75 values that are
already track there.

H> Perhaps a fancy area where people can plug in their OWN MCI commands. Sort
H> of a plug-in bucket where you could drop scripts for new MCI commands
H> into. I dunno, a thought.

Maybe something like {V 100} displays ENV variable CNET100.
You can set/change these via DOS scripts, MCI gets/displays them in real-time.
Maybe V100-V110, or so.  Of course, {L 100} would set them, too.

--1110--

D>    screens, and it would be a HECK of a lot nicer if I could simply do a
D>    double double click to EXIT, then SAVE that stuff. Presently, the SAVE
D>    line appears one line LOWER than the EXIT.

This might have been done on purpose.  To avoid "accidently" saving or
aborting.  You have to physically, consciously move and choose.

I would like to see the save or abort appear OVER (not next-to) each other.
Try saving/aborting in a 2-color screen.  It can be tricky seeing exact where
the cursor is positioned.  Also, the cursor should NOT "cycle-around".  It
should move Left (or up) and stop.  It should move Right (or down) and stop.
Currently "left" can move it back to the "right".
(All of the above is regarding the VDE's save/abort screens only.)

D> 3: Is it now possible to have 32 Computer Types as well? I've played

This is needed.  There're 15, or so, Amiga models alone.  Doesn't take much to
hit the 24 mark.

D>    to upload a QWK packet from ANYWHERE on the BBS, simply by typing
D> "QWK".

Heck, UPLOAD itself should be a global cmd.  A CONFIG variable could specify
the physical sub # to toss non-sub uploads into.  If that var was set to 0,
this feature would be disabled.  User's could never again say they can't
figure out how or where to upload.  Heck, with Zmodem auto-send/receive, you
wouldn't even need to enter "U".  Just tell'em: "It's a CNet-BBS.  Just start
sending at anytime, any prompt.  Everything is taken care of automatically."

D>    contain all text file reads OTHER than GFILES, but we REALLY DO need a
D>    way of finding out WHICH GFiles have been read, WITHOUT all the NEWS

Would anyone like to have elements within the gfiles/news/pfiles items
themselves that would track "times used"?   MCI {V XT#####} in the displays
could (optional) show run-counts.
##    Description
== == ===============================================================
 1 74 My Gfile Title
 2 12 My Gfile Title
 3  3 My Gfile Title

--1111--

During WHO "doing-strings" like "Global text sear" are too long for the
display and get chopped.  But changing to "Glob. txt search" would fit.

--1112--

> 252.   Setting an item's "purge status" has just become simpler.  The
>  "purge at download," "Purge at amaint," and "Protected" flags on
>  the item AT screen have been combined into one variable "purge
> 	status."  The only drawback is that previous "protected" status
>  of items will be lost.

I still haven't upgraded past v2.79 for the above reason.  With 20,000
msgs and files online, and 500 of them meticulously set as "protected",
I can't afford to lose them.  (400 of them would all get purge during
my 1st non-2.79 amaint run.)

I've written an Arexx script that opens each "data/_Items3" file and
checks for "Protect-Bit == 1" and sets "OnlyOnce-Bit == 4" instead.
Should this preserve all my protected-flag settings?

Do I have to do anything special with any other data in _Items3?
Or anything with _Free _Headers3 _Message3 _Text?

--1113--

 What if you set his "msgs per call" to 0?  (Or does this include ULs,
 feedbacks, mail, or other items you do not wish to limit?)

 I would like to see a quick way to stop each user from posting all Fidonet
 posts. Or all Usenet posts.  Those go out to 1000s of systems.

 Perhaps each item listed under CONFIG/FIDONET could be assigned a #.  And each
 user could have the similar # appear in his account flags.  This would
 disallow posting on a "per network basis and on a per-user basis" for upto 32
 networks.

--1114--

How is the old Amiga ser:port (or other add-on cards) going to handle
the new load of 28.8k?  Errors?  Slowdown?  Bogdown?  Flawlessly?

J.P. Hillenburg (jph@anaconda.bloomington.in.us) claims GVP's I/O
board supports upto 614,400 baud.

Of course, if you dial into 407-631-3253, they claim to already have
v.fast on one of their lines...

>            THIS  NODE IS V32bis 14400 / V.FAST US-ROBOTICS
>                           TESTING NEW ROMS
>                    Authorized  USROBOTICS DEALER

--1115--

E> Keep the logon sequence to a minimum.  Nothing bothers a user more
E> having to return through a bunch of junk before they can start using
E> your system.  I once spent 5 minutes on a BBS hitting return countless
E> times just to get thru Today in Histories, Famous Quotes, Newsflashes,
E> Voting Topics, Top Ten utilties, AutoPosts, a Grafitti Wall, etc......
E> I never called again.

This is VERY true.  I've seen systems that allow each user to config which of
these he wishes to view/skip during future log-ins.  I highly recommend using
this.  (And if a SysOp notices that 99% of the callers are answering NO to
"View this too?", it should tell the SysOp something.)

Another biggie is that "every log-in check":
>Enter your phone # for verification:
>Enter your state for verification:
>Enter your address for verification:
It's OK to ask this during a callers 1st few calls, but chances are if he's
called 27 times and answered it correctly 27 times, do you really need to
re-verify it a 28th time?

It's pretty easy to fix.  If you are running a pfile in your
systext:sys.welcome file, change it to:
> {T22 #5} {JG 99}   {#2 Pfiles:MyPfile}   {99}
        ^
        ^
This pfile will NOT be run after the caller has called >5 times.

--1116--

This post is directed towards everyone who is using Fidonet and has
a tear line like:

>---
> * Origin: Freq us! 700 MBytes of Amiga Stuff on CD-ROM (2:245/6805.0)
>---
> * Origin: Tierra-Miga (SanDiego) 619.292.0754-V32.bis (1:202/638)
>---
> * Origin: Terminal Paradise BBS * Adults Only * (1:270/611.0)
>---
> * Origin: Alpha Complex -> 307/266-3758 (1:303/13.0)
>---
> * Origin: Gates Systems Adult.215-755-6052 14.4 AMI/ADS/SAN (1:273/934)
>---
> * Origin: ReFLex Point-Pasadena, CA. 818-792-5622/3477/3938 (1:102/962.0)
>---
> * Origin: The Liquid Sky!  ALL AMIGA! 1.3 Gigz/V.32bis 24hrs (1:267/131)
>---
> * Origin: Admiral Amiga CD ROM San Diego Ca 619-222-4247 (1:202/914)
>---
> * Origin: The Aquarium/AWE, Buffalo,NY,USA (716)885-8369 (1:260/118.0)
>---
> * Origin: Terminal Paradise BBS * Adults Only * (1:270/611.0)
>---
> * Origin: Mega-City -- (1:104/535)
>---
> * Origin: PILOT BBS CNet Amiga 32-2-647-3713 Belgium (2:291/715)


but instead wants:
>--- CNet XFIDO 2.63
> * Origin: .......

If you are using Trapdoor/TrapToss, add a line like "TearLine LEAVE"
to your "Fido.CFG" file.

Many times the comments/questions you are asking might pertain only to
certain releases of CNet, so the version # you are using can be very
important.

It is also great free advertising for CNet in EVERY msg that EVERY
user posts to EVERY Fidonet echo in the world.

--1117--

How would you like to see some of this done?

AF> 4) Must have a better way to update finger so as to change one or two
AF>    enteries, without effecting the others, but NOT using a text editor.

Maybe have the old entries become the defaults.  Hitting RETURN keeps them
as-is.  Or you can cursor-around to edit.  Or clear and re-enter text.

AF> 5) Last 10 commands curor search should be increased

I believe it is currently 10-lines of 80-chars each.  I don't enter too many
80-char cmd lines.  I think 20-lines of 40-chars each, is more 'real-world'.
Of course, the PERFECT way to do it would be to allow any caller to fill his
800-char cmd-history buffer in 'real-time'.
If you enter short 10-char lines, you can have a history of 80-lines.
Or 160-lines of 5-chars each.  Or 20x40 or 40x20 or 15x53 or 25x32 or
whatever.  All use 0 bytes of more memory then the current method.

AF> 8) Have a message save feature for users that are logged off due to call
AF>    waiting or idle timer, so they can continue when they log back on.

Perhaps saved x days in a Mail:Users/#/_dead.letter file.  (UNIX style).

AF> 10)The 100-float-vote should not be fractions of 100.  Ask user to vote
AF> for all choices applicable, not decide percentages of which they like
AF> best.

"Percentages" are the whole idea here.  You can "weight" your opinion as you
see fit.

Are you saying users should be able to vote for 4 of 9 different choices, all
equally?

--1118--

AF>    Exactly...  I do not like the text editor idea...  In fact I took it
AF> out of the possible choices

I removed mine also.  Just too much room for abuse.  "Edit your answers, edit
the questions, add/remove questions entirely, delete the whole file,
anything."

AF> the previous...  But would still like to see equal distribution as in the
AF> case of Q: "What sports are you in?" A: "Basketball, Hockey, and Skiing."

Sounds like a good idea for a new 3rd type of voting.  (NOT changing or
removing the current 1-2).
1) floats
2) 1-vote
3) multi-selection

I HATE THE WORD "FLOATS"!

AF> 12) Just like Z-Modem has an automatic receive function on term programs,
AF>     CNet should have an automatic receive function as well for uploads.
AF>     Users could log on, and just start sending the file they want to

This has already been suggested.  I never heard any word from Ken about it.

AF>     upload(s) should be placed in.  If the user hangs up and doesn't place
AF>     them, they will stay in the temporary uploads base

How would CNet know about this sub?
Maybe a new CONFIG/DEFAULT "Physical sub #" entry?
I'd also like users to UL and NOT even have to pick a sub.  These ULs would
also go to my CONFIG/DEFAULT designation.

When users ask "how/where do I upload?"
Just tell them, "Just start sending anywhere/anytime.  It's a CNet
`Smart-System'".

--1119--

E> 6)  Keep the logon sequence to a minimum.  Nothing bothers a user more
E> than
E>     having to return through a bunch of junk before they can start using
E>     your system.  I once spent 5 minutes on a BBS hitting return countless
E>     times just to get thru Today in Histories, Famous Quotes, Newsflashes,
E>     Voting Topics, Top Ten utilties, AutoPosts, a Grafitti Wall, etc......
E>     I never called again.

This is VERY true.  I've seen systems that allow each user to config which of
these he wishes to view/skip during future log-ins.  I highly recommend using
this.  (And if a SysOp notices that 99% of the callers are answering NO to
"View this too?", it should tell the SysOp something.)

Another biggie is that "every log-in check":
>Enter your phone # for verification:
>Enter your state for verification:
>Enter your address for verification:
It's OK to ask this during a callers 1st few calls, but chances are if he's
called 27 times and answered it correctly 27 times, do you really need to
re-verify it a 28th time?

It's pretty easy to fix.  If you are running a pfile in your
systext:sys.welcome file, change it to:
> {T22 #5} {JG 99}   {#2 Pfiles:MyPfile}   {99}
        ^
        ^
This pfile will NOT be run after the caller has called >5 times.

--1120--

BA> It's pretty easy to fix.  If you are running a pfile in your
BA> systext:sys.welcome file, change it to:
BA> > {T22 #5} {JG 99}   {#2 Pfiles:MyPfile}   {99}
BA>         ^
BA>         ^
BA> This pfile will NOT be run after the caller has called >5 times.

E>     Hummmm......I like this!  I never even knew this option existed.
E> Oh boy!!.....The fun I'm going to have now!  Thanx Bill, excellent idea!

Another handy thing...
If a new-user goes through a lengthy questionairre and registration process,
the last thing he needs to do is also have 10-20 vote topics forced upon him.

You can do the same modification:
{T22 #3} {JL 99}   {#2 Pfiles:bbs/vote}   {99}
      ^
      ^
He won't have to vote until his 2nd or 3rd (or whatever) call.
(He can still "manually" move into [V]ote.)

Or maybe hold-off until he's a level 5 or greater user:
>{T15 #5}{JL 99}   {#2 Pfiles:bbs/Vote}     {99}
       ^
       ^
Or whatever access level.

(I hope I typed in all my codes correctly.)

--1121--

>     etc will most likely structure their BBS so you think that you're
>     in a
>     sailing ship or a prison ward using message base names like, The
>     Gallery
>     and The Crow's Nest.....The Cell Block, the Torture Chamber, etc,.
>     This is too comical

I find some of these systems extremely hard to understand.

"Feedback/file-areas/msg-areas/news-files/doors/post/read/write" I can
understand.
But when the cmds are "Move to the brig, the galley, write parchments, read
scrolls, move to the crows nest, down periscope, visit the hall of records,
load torpedo tubes, bombs away" it can get quite confusing.

Sorry, I'm not a knight, a railroad engineer, a submarine captain, or war
hero, and their terminology isn't familiar to me.

Reminds me of Letterman's:
Top 10 Expressions that Sound Dirty but Really Aren't - February 3, 1986
     10.   "Frosting the pastry"
      9.   "Shooting hoops"
      8.   "Jumping the turnstile"
      7.   "Checking your oil"
      6.   "Tethering the blimp"
      5.   "Sending out for sushi"
      4.   "Picnic on the grass"
      3.   "Quarter-pounder at the Golden Arches"
      2.   "Shaking hands with Abraham Lincoln"
      1.   "Windsurfing on Mount Baldy"

--1122--

I love the formatting power of the new MCI "{V999 %2.2s}", but I believe
the additional "%s" is causing conflicts in BBSTEXT lines that already have
other "%" formatting codes in them.

Try changing #A into #B:
1> Is %s correct [Yes]?
2> {V1 %12s}, is %s correct [Yes]?
It won't work as planned.

1st choice fix:  CNet correctly allows and checks for "%s" inside MCI "{}"
                 and prevents conflicts with existing "%s" codes.
2nd choice fix:  Change MCI "%s" codes into "#s" or some other escape char.
3rd choice fix:  Add to the manual:  "You can never use MCI "%s" codes on
                 BBSTEXT lines that already have "%s" codes in them." (ugh)

> 1st choice fix:  CNet correctly allows and checks for "%s" inside MCI
> "{}" and prevents conflicts with existing "%s" codes.

TB> I don't know if this is something that CNet can 'fix'.  % codes are
TB> handlded by the language.

CNet's MCI parser couldn't scan the contents of {}, and handle all the "%s"
correctly.  As well as scan/handle all the "%s" codes OUTSIDE of {}, too?
I don't see why not.

Very little in the way of "parsing routines" is "impossible" or "unfixable"
these days.  It's just a matter of "speed-costs" and "complexity"
considerations.  Both of which I think can be covered.

--1123--

I'm putting my money on the bug being in the 'text search' routines.
(Or 'searching' while 'amaintenancing'.)

Here on FW, this same WHO output has been present for the last 5hrs.
All the other lines are ringing but not answering.

Port User name            Logon  Spd From                     Where
==== ==================== ====== === ======================== ================
 0     (no one)                    0                          Maintenance
 1 m Data                  9:52p  96 Fulton, NY           USA Global text sear
                                     One of many C-Net owners........
 2 m Motor                11:17p 144 Travis Afb, CA       USA Global text sear
                                     Be nice to me, I'm new! :)
 3 m Chainsaw              7:06p 144 Edmond, OK           USA Text search
                                     Clubland-100 megs, 14.4, CNet, Expanding!
 4 m Bill Allen            5:44a 144 Livonia, MI          USA Base
                                     313-473-2020 2-line 14.4k Fido 1:2410/207

Do I win something?

--1124--

1)  Place a 79 char DOS filenote on a file.
2)  Let AO drag it into 1 of your file areas.
3)  It appears online with the full 79 chars.
4)  CNet chops the orginal DOS filenote to the first 77 chars.

I don't know if it's been fixed in v2.90, but earlier releases do this.

--1125--

> Get PCPursuit, it's great, it's cheap...

I used PCP for several years before dropping it recently.

Some things to check into before getting PCPursuit:
1)  Is there a phone # local to you that gets you into PCPpursuit?
If not, it is kind of pointless to pay a LD charge to reach a point, that you
can then then make local calls from.

2)  Many areas are limited to 2400.  (I was limited to 1200bps here in Livonia,
Michigan)

With so many people running 14.4K/16.8K and soon 28.8K, I couldn't live on
1200bps.  I dropped my PCP account last month.

With 14.4K modems costing only $170, I can't imagine PCP (a part of
the giant Sprint co.) sticking with 1200/2400.

PCP can save you money.  But not if you have to stay online *12 TIMES*
longer due to slower speeds.

Call a BBS and ask the SysOp:
"Hey, can you raise my time-limit up 3-4 HOURS per call because I want to
tie-up your lines using 1200bps.  OK?"

Let me know what he says.

--1126--

With the # of systems that modify their BBSTEXT files, trying (by various
means) to squeeze full-menus in, YES, something should be built into CNet to
support this automatically.

But how?

Maybe something like:

Display "SysText:Menu.x.y.z" at each prompt.
x=Prompt # as it appears in BBSMENU.
y=Graphics set # (ANSI, IBM, Amiga, etc)
z=Help level # (Novice, Intermediate, Expert)
If a matching ".x.y.z" file isn't found, then display the ".x.y" menu.  If
that isn't found, then display the ".x" menu, if that isn't found, display the
prompt-line as found in BBSTEXT.

--1127--

Alan, regarding your FindFish v2.2 door...

>4 - INSTRUCTIONS: Information on usage

[H]elp would be a better choice.  More like CNet's default:  H=Help.
(Keeping all 3 listed menu items for "search types".)

>Enter.. #)number to change, [S]earch, [H]elp, [Abort]:

Also, is there a way for me to remove:
> "Would you like instructions [y,N]?"
presented to every user, during every run?

I think users needing help can pick it from the menu.
(Although, the whole prg is pretty straight-forward to use.)

Also, it might be better to include some 1993 Fred Fish Data files in
the main archive, and not old 1980's stuff.  Maybe disks 800-900?  I
think it is more likely to be what users want.

> The # character is reserved as an indexing marker and can only appear
> as the identifier preceding the disk number.  You must scan any text
> that you add to the database files and change any # characters to some
> other character or delete them.  If there are any stray # characters
> in the file, you are asking for trouble.

Please consider have FishFind search for "\n#*\n", instead of just "#".
This WOULD then allow "#" to occur safely in the body of FF-data text.
(Just not as "\n#*\n".)

> current disk number display changed to dots during searches

Dot's tell the user:
"It's searching something, somewhere.  An unknown amount searched, and
an unknown amount left to go".

But,
Displaying "(#_of_disks_searched / #_of_disks_overall) * 100" as:
> Searched 10% \r
> Searched 20% \r
> Searched 30% \r
> Searched 40% \r
Tells the user exactly where he stands at all times.

Please consider moving all the strings into an external FindFishText
file, like BBStext.  Quite simple to code.  Read/load 20-lines of text
into a simple array.  Display as needed.

And, calls to CNet's "char GetKey()" for hot-key input would really make
moving around FindFish fast and handy.

--1128--

> "Workbench" iconifies the console to an ICON (Not an icon in a window)
> on the main Workbench screen.

What are a handful of advantages for doing this, instead of the
current window-method?  I love the current ability to move it in front
or behind other stuff (like we can now).  And you can still put it on
a WB screen if you like.

> Note, the control panel is its OWN screen, NOT a workbench window.

That does this gain?  Screens use big memory.  Especially if I already
have another screen open, and can just use a window on it, instead.

--1129--

PB> has anyone found a way to move subboards into a subdir without deleting
PB> them and adopting them back in?

I don't believe this is currently possible.  Perhaps Ken would consider adding
it.  I'd use it, on certain occasions.

But how would you like this done?
Perhaps...
If you enter "ML" with only 1 arg (instead of 2) then you get the same
sub-list to pick from that "MOVE" gives you.  (You could move subs
in/out/around any subdirs, even move subs between base: and udbase:.)

--1130--

You think we can get Ken to add to the log-in:
> It's now  Tue 10-Aug-1993  3:37a; port #2
> Last call Tue 10-Aug-1993  3:21a; port #4
                                    ^^^^^^^
--1131--

Perhaps Ken will consider squeezing 2 preliminary RIP support items into
CNet v3.0.
1) Give "ET" a "RIP" choice.
2) A new-user question:
   "Does your term support RIP [No] ?"

(These will be needed eventually anyway.  Why not be ready for it?)

SysOps will be able to create their own RIP-bbstext and RIP-menus TODAY.
(CNet just needs to send the RIP codes as-is.)
As soon as an Amiga RIP-term is available *IT* can correctly read/
display these codes.  The very DAY a RIP-term is released, CNet will
already support 90% of the stuff.

This will NOT allow full-RIP point/click/query stuff, but graphics/
colors/draw/fills/fonts/windows/cursor moving/display icons/etc
(anything that is going to be read/interpreted by the TERM) should
would.

I hope I'm correctly assuming how RIP works.  It is the responsibility
of the user's term (NOT the BBS) to do MOST of the work?

S> Could someone please upload documentation of this protocol? I'd like to
S> see how it works and what it's capable of...

I UL'ed it months ago.  Type "FIND *RIP*".

S> Bill, I don't know the specifics, but I doubt a "does your term support
S> RIP" question would be needed. Most likely, there is some way to
S> auto-detect RIP, just like there is with ANSI...

There is.  But *I* (as caller) would rather control whether or not I want to
start receiving RIP codes.  It is far too much power to automatically start
sending gadgets/window/etc.  RIP can even load/save stuff off of a caller's HD
without him even knowing about it.   (But I hope term authors are going to let
us control which DIRS to save/load to.)

It is frightfully simple:
!|C506040
  ^ ^ ^ ^
  | | |  40 pixels in diameter
  | | Position at 50x60
  Draw a circle

You can even set a bunch of variables for your name, address, city, state,
sex, bday, phone, etc on your HD.  A BBS can inquire and make these the
answers to the new-user questions without ever even asking you the questions.

ON YOUR FIRST CALL to a system you've never called before in your life, you'll
see:
 1) Handle  :  Mr. BBS                   2) Name    :  Bill Beogelein
 3) Address :  Box 530441                4) City    :  Livonia, MI
 5) ZipCode :  48153                     6) Country :  USA
 7) Voice#  :  313-5555555               8) Data#   :  313-4732020
 9) Hi baud :  14400                    10) BirthDay:  Wed 29-Jul-1967
11) Gender  :  Male                     12) Organiz.:  SysOp of SWHQ
BEFORE you even log-in.  (Or course, you won't really need to "log-in". The
BBS and TERM will exchange "name and password" info without even bothering to
ask you.)

Once again, *I* (as caller) would like to be asked and control whether or not
RIP is active.

--1132--

file: CFN.lha (17967 bytes, 0m 13s, 0 xfers, 3111 cps best)
from: Bill Beogelein
to  : Big Brother  (Ken Pletzer)
on  : Sat 14-Aug-1993  7:57p
info: Completes filenames in shell when TAB is hit.  v1.0 Andreas Gunther 21Jun93

CFN works only from a DOS shell.

But, this is the kind of automation I spoke of last month regarding CNet.

Perhaps CNet could adopt something similar:
CNET> FI <TAB>
Would expand to "FINGER ".  (the only choice available.)

Continuing...
CNET> FINGER Jim Se <TAB>
Would expand to "Jim Selleck".   (the only "Jim Se" online here)

In either case, BACKSPACE or DELETE would undo what <TAB> had expanded and
displayed.  (In case that's NOT the choice the user wanted.)

It would be VERY handy for SCAN/READ/KILL 'foo' usage too.
CNET  SCAN 'fo <TAB>

--1133--

Ken, did you find the "byme" bug I reported earlier?
I'm often told by Cnet that I'm NOT the ULer of a file, when I really am.

And today, (1st time I noticed) I'm now told I AM the ULer of files I did NOT
UL.

> (3) Amiga Telecommunications> s byme
>  # Upload Rsp File           Size De
>  4 10-Aug   0 PopModems  LHA   2K
>  6  6-Aug   0 term34tr   LHA   3K
>  7  6-Aug   0 term34rx   LHA   1K
>  8  6-Aug   0 term34lo   LHA  15K
>  9  6-Aug   0 term34ld   LHA  53K
> 10  6-Aug   0 term34gd   LHA  83K
> 11  6-Aug  12 term3400   LHA 236K
> 27  2-Jul   0 QwkSpecs   LHA   5K
> 28 29-Jun   0 foyers16   LHA  13K
> 31 22-Jun   2 amigANSI   LHA  13K
> 33  7-Jun   0 AmiTCP     LHA   3K
> 48 27-Mar   2 ParaBit    LHA   6K
> 49 17-Mar   0 hydrakit   LZH 246K
> 55 31-Jan   0 abberexx   LHA   5K

I did NOT UL many of the above files.

--1134--

RC> What I would like to do is record the conference in a buffer or drive so I
RC> can put it in the Gfiles area for those that may wish to see it but were
RC> unable to get in on it.

I mentioned this feature to Ken ages ago.  He didn't show any real interest.
I'd love it.  We can only imagine how many 1000s of lines of discussion occur
in confs and jointlink sessions all over the world.  Maybe 100s of top-notch
Amiga users were discussing a solution to a problem that you might be having.
Talk of new hardware, software, whatever, etc.

And it is all instantly lost forever as soon as it scrolls off the top of the
screen.  :-(

RC> If this is not too difficult can someone write an ARexx prg to handle
RC> this?

I don't think it would be too easy to do this in Arexx or any other language,
either.  (I hope someone proves me wrong.)  The text that users type in conf
all goes from directly from their port to all the other ports.  I don't know
how an outside program can wedge in and "grab it" and save it.  (I assume this
is what would need to be done.)

Now, maybe, if some enterprising young programmer decides to REPLACE the
entire pfiles:bbs/join cmd, it could have this new feature and 100 others.
But that sounds like a ton of work.

I wonder if Ken would part with portions of the source code for
pfiles:bbs/join.

Ken, what are the odds of getting you to release some source code
samples from "Pfiles:BBS/Join"?  I REALLY need to add a "save text to
a file" option.  I'm missing tons of great talk during confs that I
don't attend.

(It would also be a great example for users wishing to write multi-node
interactive game pfiles.  They're far too few.)

--1135--

Using an Arexx pfile I can prompt the user for an account #, and then
feed it into 'LoadScratch/GetScratch' to get certain info about that
account.

But I feel users more often think in terms of "name" or "handle", than
memorizing "account numbers".

If I prompt the user for a "name or handle" I can't do anything with it.
(or can I?)

I basically need a means to move between an "Account<-->Real Name<-->Handle"
lookup.

Given any 1 of the 3, arexx will get me the other 2.

Any ideas on doing this?

It has to be in arexx, and it would be far too slow to read/search
all names or handles 1-by-1.

Ken, any future plans to allow 'LoadScratch' to be fed names/handles
in addition to (NOT instead of) its current "account #"?

--1136--

I noticed the new version of the FIND command doesn't search in subs that
you have DROPPED.
Anyway to force it to?

It's difficult to:
1)  Write down dozens of dropped/joined settings.
2)  Do the FIND.
3)  Re-set all your dropped/joined settings.
every time you need to FIND if something is REALLY online some place.
(Regardless of your current dropped/joined settings.)

Maybe FIND could get a new "ALL" option?
CNet> FIND ALL rip*

--1137--

What kind of control will BBSes need for RIP in the future?

Can't any caller post a ton of ASCII RIP codes in a Usenet/Fidonet msg and
have 1000s of RIP terminals all over the world go wacko?  Opening/closing
string requesters, windows, drawing colored lines, circles, boxes, creating
mouse-sensitive gadgets, changing fonts, etc.

And it's not fair to tell all callers to turn their term's RIP setting OFF all
the time "just to be safe".

Actually, all of the above mischief can be done TODAY, regardless of whether
or not your BBS supports it.

So maybe CNet will also need a per-sub "Allow RIP" flag.
Checking/allowing/stripping "!|" in column #1.
(I believe that's the RIP inducer code.)

--1138--

Does it matter which ORDER I use when changing the foreground and
background colors?  On a four-color screen, line #B and line #D end up
as different colors, even though exactly the same MCI codes appear in
lines #A and #C.  (But in a different order.)

Start test...

A) \c5 \z7 foreground changed 1st \c7 \z0

B) What color should this line be?

C) \z7 \c5 foreground changed 2nd \z0 \c7

D) What color should this line be?

End test.

--1139--

> --- version 2.82 16-July-1993
> 256.	Several bugs and inconsistencies with the FIND command have motivated
> 	its re-creation.  The previous FIND command would show private
> 	and unvalidated files.  The previous FIND command would only show the
> 	first 80 characters of a file's short description.

Ken, any plans on having "SS" also show the full filenotes?

Or do we specifically want them chopped?

--1140--

Does anyone know why many of CNet's SysText:help/* files end with an ASCII 26
character?  (ctrl-z).

Offline I use an editor that doesn't display control-codes, so I never
knew those characters were there.

It was driving me crazy.  I kept adding text onto the end of those
files, and CNet would never display it.

If all these "26"s aren't needed, they should be removed.

--1141--

RP> make sure you test if result equals ###PANIC after ANY and ALL requests
RP> for input (i.e getchar, query, etc)  Good Luck!

There is a 2nd method that is even simpler.

If your arexx (or C or DOS or whatever) pfile exits (immediately or
eventually) if the user hits RETURN repeatedly, then no need to check for
###PANIC at all.

This method is fully sanctioned by Ken in writing.

Might as well keep Arexx scripts as small and simple as possible.

--1142--

TE> Someone may have already answered this, but find the ASCII code for
TE> carrage return in DECIMAL value (I think it's 12, but that might be form
TE> feed).

line feed :       10
form feed :       12
carriage return : 13

Whenever you type "ASCII" on my BBS, you get a full 0-127 DEC, HEX, OCT,
BINARY, ASCII character chart.  I got tired of searching the back of books
for this info.

--1143--

I have an arexx-pfile that I call MyCode.rexx.
I want it to work in normal CNet fashion, like FINGER or MAIL SEND, etc.
I want to allow users to run it online with ANY of the following:
> MYCODE Bill Beogelein
> MYCODE Bill
> MYCOD 1
> MYCO1
> MY1

How will my arexx script be able to grab the parameter(s) passed?
Might be a word, or a number, might have 0 or more spaces before it,
might have 0 or more spaces between the parameters, might have 0 or
more spaces after it, the cmd might be abbreviated in any of several
ways.

I need to cover ALL of the above possibilities.  (FINGER and MS do.)

Just using the normal arexx "parse arg vars" would be great, but CNet
doesn't support that.  (ugh)

I'd like to stay away from using "GetUser XT#####" codes too.
They change far to often to remain compatible.

A specific, fixed, 0-100 'GetUser' value would be ideal.
(but I'll take a XT##### if that's all that is possible.)

--1144--

D> Me too. I also have a quick MCI Chart file, quick Arexx run file, TEST
D> program file, and a bunch of other little hacks to make work easier.

I started to add so many new cmds to CNet that I started to lose track of what
they were.  I added to BBSMENU:
> ??             | {*0 SysText:Help/BB_cmds}

So that all users can hit "??" and see a list of *SOME* of the "SysOp Added
Cmds":

--- cut here ---

In addition to CNet's regular cmds, the following have been added by the
SysOp:

Available from ALL menus...
AMV        :  Activity Monitor.  (Display 70+ system variables)
AREacode   :  Shows city/state for any areacodes.
ASCii      :  Shows a 0-127 ASCII character chart.
AVail      :  Check available free memory.
BPS        :  Which modem-speeds are most popular worldwide?
CPS        :  See what char-per-sec transfers you should be getting.
DATe       :  Local date/time.
DM         :  Date Math.  "DM 123" shows the date 123 days ago.
DOS        :  Access to certain DOS cmds available to all users.
EDIt       :  Edit your terminal/account/preference settings.
EVEnts     :  List upcoming system-events.
FISH       :  (Or "FF")  Fred Fish disk searching.
FREQ       :  List files that can be File Request'ed from SWHQ.
GRAph      :  Same as above, but in bar-graph format.
GROwth     :  See how this BBS has grown over the years.
MC         :  Your [M]ail [C]heck info.
MODerators :  See a list of Fidonet Echo Moderators.
NL         :  Fidonet [N]ode[L]ist searcher.
PLan       :  See public info-file about any user.
SIG        :  Display or swap your various SIGNATURE files.
SPell      :  Check correct spelling of 1 word.
STOck      :  Commodore stock market data.
TOTals     :  See system totals.  (Msgs, calls, files, etc.)
TRAck      :  Display your "Track-Record Of Usage" for your last few calls.
VER        :  Display various version #s for libraries, executables, devices.
!V         :  See the current CNet-BBS version # and my serial #.
???        :  Display version #s for these cmds.

Available only from FILE/MSG menus...
FREE       :  List 'free' DLs.  (NOT counting areas that are ALL free DLs)
NOTify     :  Notify UL'er each time current file is DL'ed.
PROtect    :  Current file/msg CAN'T be purged. (SysOp only)
UNProtect  :  Current file/msg CAN   be purged. (SysOp only)
WD         :  Check [W]ho [D]ownloaded certain files.  (Not functional yet)
WEEK       :  List all files ULed this week. (or TODAY/YESTERDAY/MONTH/YEAR)

--- cut here ---

SysOp, if you have heavily expanded CNet, please consider adding a line like:
> ??             | {*0 SysText:Help/BB_cmds}

--1145--

BB> Can't any caller post a ton of ASCII RIP codes in a Usenet/Fidonet
BB> msg and have 1000s of RIP terminals all over the world go wacko? 
BB> Opening/closing string requesters, windows, drawing colored lines,
BB> circles, boxes, creating mouse-sensitive gadgets, changing fonts,

MM> Probably.  And it's something that needs to be addressed, but unless
MM> someone has a program to generate the strings, it's probably too much of a
MM> pain for anyone to bother doing--the RIP strings are longer than ANSI
MM> strings, and are not in the LEAST intuitive (the developers are up-front
MM> about that).

There ARE paint programs that generate the strings.
1-2 on the Amiga.  (Several more on the way.)
Many on the IBM or other machines.  (Many more on the way.)

BB> Actually, all of the above mischief can be done TODAY, regardless of
BB> whether or not your BBS supports it.

MM> Again, true, but I'm hoping nobody will have that much patience!

A few 5-10 char strings can't be that much work to key-in manually.
(Some people spend MONTHS writing viruses in machine-language.  I
can't imagine those same folks not have the the "patience" to key-in a
few RIP-codes to cause trouble.)

I am NOT "hoping" nobody will do it.
I am hoping BBS authors will support RIP allowances/restrictions.

All any BBS author needs to do is give EACH msg base a sysop-settable flag:
1)  "!|" is allowed on column #1
    (Full RIP permitted.)
2)  "!|" is allowed, but stripped-off before net msgs are send out.
    (Full RIP on local-screens, but not networked.)
3)  "!|" is forbidden on column #1.
    (No RIP allowed.)
(You could probably get away with just 1 and 3.)

I haven't had time to study the RIP-docs, but that appears to be all
that is needed.

BBS authors,
  Will YOUR software be the first to support RIP on the Amiga?

--1146--

D>Actually, I'm using the ?? to display my "Mini Main Menu" which lists most
D>commands the user can use all on one screen.
D>For my Maint Commands, I added the @? command(which is what Excelsior
D>uses) to display my SysOp Commands Menu.

It would be nice if Ken could suggest a 'standard' for these.
(Every sysop has them set to something different. The "help/menu/info"
keystrokes are the last ones I want to have to "search" for on each system 
I call.)

My suggestions would be:
1) "?"        Display a list of cmds (like CNet does now.)
2) "??"       Display a list of just global cmds.
              (So that they aren't buried/lost in #1.)
3) "@?"       Display a list of maint cmds.
4) "+?"       Display a list of cmds added by the SysOp.
              (A quick, separate list of "hey, what's different on this BBS?")
4) "[RETURN]" Display the full-menu, even for totally lost callers.
              (We need to be able to use BBSMENU to trap keys 0-127.)
5) "H"        Enter HELP sub-system.  (like CNet does now.)

--1147--
       
BA> I'm NOT running v2.91 yet, but am I correct in assuming that only
BA> callers with netmail access can ever reach this "node search prompt"?

DS> Yes...

Then I'd like to ask Ken to please make this "node search" available as a
separate bbsmenu cmd, also.  It is a shame to spend the time/effort on coding
something and then let just a very small % of the callers with netmail access
ever use (or even see) it.

I often like to find out info about a certain node, but don't necessary want
to netmail it.  I'm sure a few of my callers (without netmail access) would
too.
  
--1148--

I feel that addressing a Fidonet post to "SysOp" should only be
allowed by those with Sysop-maint access.

Currently any CNet caller can address a msg to "sysop" (accidentally
or deliberately) and have it appear as "waiting mail" in 1000+ CNet
(and other BBSes) sysop's mailboxes.  Each will think it was specifically
addressed to THEM.

--1149--
I think CNet should have a global-option called
> "add purged filenames to list".
  
If turned ON, each time you (or amaint) purged a file, that filename is added
to a list of "can't be re-uploaded files".  It would work like
SysText:BadNames, but instead of "users", it would work on "ULs".

--EOF--

Monday 30-Aug-93 19:28:26

-Bill "Mr. BBS" Beogelein, 810-473-2020, 2-line HST 14.4k USR-DS, 1:2410/207

