
Saturday 15-May-93 18:47:26

--950--

Ken, any plans on having CNet display AmigaGuide files online?

CNet's HELP cmd (and others) could reverse the colors on keywords.
User's with ANSI-mouse turned ON in their accts, could click on these keywords
for more info about that keyword.

Or instead of ANSI-mouse, a new VDE "type" offering.

It would really only need to support 2 of AmigaGuide's features.

1) Mark keywords.
2) Mark labels.

For more info see @{ " RANGE " LINK RangeInfo }  (This marks/inverts this
keyword.)

@node RangeInfo   (This label specifies the block of text to display.)

    This block is only displayed if user picked "RANGE".

@endnode

AmigaGuide has been available for more than 2 years now.  I'm finally
starting to see a LARGE # of AmigaGuide files available.  I am quickly
becoming addicted.

--951--

On Thu 13-May-1993  2:40a, Mario Bonelli wrote:
MB> CNET: BETTER CRASH RECOVERY NEEDED!!!

MB> I had a crash the other day on one of my hard drives, after backing
MB> everything up re formatting and copying everything back, Iw as having
MB> major
MB> problems with cnet. Users were logging on, and the system would crash(just
MB> lock up) I would go to delete someone or auto maint would, and CRASH.
MB> I figured it out that about 15-20 user accounts had bad/corrupted _buser3
MB> files or their directory wa smissing alltogether which caused the lock
MB> ups.

Just for future reference (in case this happens to me), just how did
you determine which _buser3's were bad/corrupted?

MB> It was not easy to find, took me most of the day to figure out. Cnet needs
MB> better crash recovery, or some kind of mechanism to test integrity or
MB> whatever of files before they are run. If they appear to be bad the file
MB> should be restarted and placed in the log what the problem is.

MB> I dont know the if ands and whats and how tos. IM just saying there is a
MB> need fo rbetter crash recovery. Ciao!

There are several things Ken could do:

1) Check the size of each data file before CNet loads them, if they
aren't what CNet expects for that structure size, then report/abort/
rebuild/re-create/etc.  It's a quick, simple 100% effective check to
catch ALL data files that got chopped or lengthened due to corruption.

2) Pepper the data structures with CheckSum values.  These variables
must always remain set to $FF values.  If 1 isn't, then report/abort/
rebuild/re-create/etc that data file.  It's a quick, simple way to
catch a very large percentage of corruption problems.

Ken already did this for 1-2 of CNet's structures.

(I think he checks for a value of $00 instead of $FF.  But in a sample
13888 byte _buser3 file, that I just looked at, I count 10571 $00s,
and NO $FFs.  $00 just occurs "naturally" (string terminators,
cleared-values, etc) too often to make it a good choice for a check-
value.)

It is well worth the VERY few bytes of HD space it costs, compared to
the protection it provides.  (Since it is a good idea to pad
structures to the nearest 4 bytes anyway, often these checksum values
make the structures "0" bytes bigger.)

I hope you don't mind that I'm forwarding your comments and mine
directly to Ken.

--952--

Another case:

Does this sound correct?
When looking at "AM"'s output:
A) while online, the "last-caller" is really "current-caller" (you).
B) without anyone on that port (ie. the idle-screen display),
   then "last-caller" is truly "the previous caller".

>                      Last   Setup  Period   Total Current
> ...
> ...
> ...
> Minutes use            0      17     258     841
> Minutes idle           0       8      27      42K
> Charges                0      10     217     505

EXCEPT the last 3 values of "LAST" during "A" are always 0.
(I'm not sure why these also don't reflect actual values.)
My pfile is trying to use these values, but it's always getting 0.

Even if "AC" reports:
   > Item                  Charge    Session
   > -------------------- -------- ----------
   > Per call charge      $0.0200  $  0.0200
   (As it should.)

After I log-off and look at "B", then those last 3 lines ARE correct,
but only sometimes.

I tried this:

1) I log-in.
2) AC reports:
   > Item                  Charge    Session
   > -------------------- -------- ----------
   > Per call charge      $0.0200  $  0.0200
   (As it should.)
3) I log-off and log back on the same port.
4) I run "AM" thinking that the "last-caller" column (me) should now read
   "2".  It reads zero instead.

Another case:
I do #1 and #2.
3) I run "AM" while online.
   See "last-caller" now means "current-caller", me.
   (Which is OK.)
4) I read 1 gfile.  "AM reports "last-caller" read 1 gfile.
5) The "2" charges that "AC" reports still is shown by "AM" as 0.

Aside from whether either of the above cases are "bugs" or "my
misunderstanding", I still need some info for a pfile I'm writing...

Where does "AM" get its info for the 70 values it shows when:
A)  displayed on an idle-screen without anyone online.
B)  displayed when someone executes it online.

C) MainPort's SAM[5][15] or
D) UserPort's SAMNow[20].

>                        1       2       3       4       5
>                      Last   Setup  Period   Total Current
> Feedback               0       0      11      16      10
> Mail sent              0       0     180     202      37
> Mail to #1             0       0     123     140      13

Is it something like:
If "A" then 1-5 is obtained from "C".
If "B" then 2-5 is obtained from "C", and 1 is obtained from "D"
The last 3 lines of "AM"'s output is obtained from  _______ ???

Are the last 3 lines effected by "local" VS "remote" calls?
"SysOp access" VS "non-SysOp access"?
Or some other user-acct flag that I have set some place?

--953--

Under CONFIG's ACCOUNTING I have:
 >          Charge                    Units        Value
1> Each use of Re-logon command       .01c          100
2> Per minute of connect time         .01c          900
(Both are in 1/100ths of 1 cent.)

Online, "AC" shows:
 >    Item               Charge   Session
1> Re-logon command     $1.0000  $  0.0000
2> Connect time         $0.0900  $  0.0900

The CONFIG setting has #1 set much lower than #2.
Online "AC" is showing #1 is higher than #2.

(Something is/isn't being divided/multiplied by 100, as it should be.)

--954--

 W> Amiga i recieve about 100 to 150 messages a day  amigasale is now
 W> amiga_sale and is active.

 Yikes!

 What do you set your 'amaint inactive days' setting to?

 If I want to keep 100-200 items, and about 300-500 responses online, I'd have
 to set it to *1 DAY*?  Kind of tight.  And if nothing comes in one day, the
 sub clears itself to 0 items, 0 responses.  Drastic.

 There's many different ideas going around in the CNet Echo about dealing with
 this.

 Maybe amaint should obey a new "min # of items" value.  (Don't continue to
 purge msgs if the sub is already down to x items.)

 Or, "roll-over limits in real-time".
 Keep exactly x items in this sub at all times.
 Purge 1 old msg, for each 1 new msg.

 Or, make "max # of items" a per-sub value, instead of a per-BBS system-wide
 value.

 Or...?

--955--

item: 1 of subboard C programming help/answers
subj: Wanted: FIFO.LIBRARY
from: Big Brother  (Ken Pletzer)
orgz: Perspective Software
on  : Tue 18-May-1993  1:48a

 Would someone kindly upload the FIFO.LIBRARY archive?  I believe it's a publid
 domain Matt Dillon piece.

 Thanks!
 ken

#1/2 from: Big Brother  (Ken Pletzer)
     orgz: Perspective Software
     on  : Tue 18-May-1993  2:12p

 Thanks for uploading the library ... any one have the COMPLETE archive?  With
 docs, examples, etc.
 Ken

#2/2 from: Bill Allen
     to  : Big Brother  (Ken Pletzer)
     on  : Tue 18-May-1993  7:01p

 Just so happens, oddly enough, I have:
 FIFO374.lha                51834 ----rwed 07-Jan-92 13:11:08
 : Lib to access Dillon's FIFO pipe v37.4 07Dec91

 I won't be able to UL until later today.

 Does anyone have a newer release?

--956--

In Mail Scans displays...

Would anyone like to see the 'weekday' and 'century' dropped?
And the 'size of that piece of mail' added?
(It will NOT increase the size of the output lines.)

OLD> NC 11 Sun 16-May-1993  4:04p Bill Beogelein       Questions About CNet
OLD> NC 12 Mon 17-May-1993  5:14p Jim Nasium           Questions About CNet
OLD> NC 13 Tue 18-May-1993  6:52p Phil Adelfia         Questions About CNet
OLD> NC 14 Wed 19-May-1993  7:30p Mike Hunt            Questions About CNet

NEW> NC 11 16-May-93  4:04p  13K Bill Beogelein       Questions About CNet
NEW> NC 12 17-May-93  5:14p   2K Jim Nasium           Questions About CNet
NEW> NC 13 18-May-93  6:52p   8K Phil Adelfia         Questions About CNet
NEW> NC 14 19-May-93  7:30p   1K Mike Hunt            Questions About CNet

For new mail, I could see which letters are most likely small/quick
comments and which are lengthy items.  (Which do I have time to read/
answer right now?)

For old mail, I could see which letters are taking up the most space,
putting me dangerously close to my mbox-size-limit.  (Or just plain
wasting the largest amounts of HD space.)

--957--

DM> Bill why don't you actualy get involved with fido before you start trying
DM> to suggest and tell people how things should be done..  I am not even
DM> going to attempt to explain to you exactly why this is a waste of time..
DM> You having never run a fido based BBS would not be able to understand why
DM> this would work.. and honestly you are not worth the effort..

I've run Fidonet for many years on many different BBS packages.
As of today, I have 2676 items and 7680 responses on my CNet setup.
(99.99% are Fidonet)

I really don't know the reasoning behind posting msgs that say, "Bill, I know
the answer to your problem/question, but I'm not going to tell you what it
is."

DM> Suficce it to say, if you do not have enough harddrive space to support
DM> multible messages bases, then you do not need to run a bbs.

So we shouldn't have better control over msg purging?  Just close our BBSes
instead?  Great idea.

DM> Any idiot
DM> knows (present company excepted) that you can not keep a 10meg message
DM> base system on a 5meg system..

No one (other than you) stated anything about keeping a 10meg msg base on a
5meg system.  (Although other BBSes will being doing exactly that through
msg-compression.  Ever notice how CNet's _Text files can be compressed 75%?
Hint, hint, hint.)

I just feel there are better ways then CNet's current ONLY method.
"All items (and all their attached responses) in this base are purged after x
days without additional responses."

That statement remains in effect regardless of 5/10/100/500meg HD sizes.
Regardless of 1/50/500 msg bases.
Regardless of how many days the post has been online overall.

And for those of us that mix posts and files in the same sub, even entire file
catalogs can be wiped out by CNet's current method.  Just because we are
trying to keep a lid on the # of msgs online.

Please consider starting a separate item regarding insults.  This 1 is for
Cnet discussions only.

--958--


Running "CNet 2.75 >>ALPHA 3.0<<"

If I run cnet:control and exit control, all is fine.
If I run cnet:control, load cnet:bbs, and exit control, GURU 100% of the time.
(Just after CONTROL closes.)
I tried both versions of v2.75 "load".

I can "AT47" to edit the attributes of item n from the subboard prompt.
But "AT" from any item's "respond/pass" prompt, does nothing.

Shawn, I too have a few scrambled msg bases.
Did you notice if it started occurring ONLY after you ran repair_sub?
Not before?

Now that CNet is using Fifo, how do I get rid of all the "New Shell process 12"
strings that the callers see every time it is called?

--959--

Ken, please consider having the days listed as Sun->Sat like a calendar, not
Sat->Fri.  And a new toggle-all-days ON/OFF gadget would save me 7 gadget
clicks each time I define an "all-days" events.

--960--

TB> Look for "From " (The capital F is important, as is the space as opposed
TB> to
TB> the colon).  This has worked reliably for me for years, as with MANY other

Would it be feasible to give CONFIG a new variable?
> UUCP Keyword Starter: From

TB> Other than that 2.75 looks great, exect for not being able to edit your
TB> bbsevents once you've made them.

I can create/delete/load/save events fine.
Exactly how, step-by-step, are you trying this?
Docs are needed.

TB> That, and it would be nice to at some
TB> point be able to move the spell-checker files over to the hard drive at
TB> the Sysop's own decision to hamper the speed.

A new CONFIG/PATH variable.  Or share 1 of the existing ones.  Or add a
"miscellaneous path" for this and all future needs.

--961--

HH> I have mine set for ID "10".

What happens when JL is so popular that everyone is doing it?  "I had ID #10"
"No, you had it last time, I get it."  "ID #x is already in use by another
system."  "I want to use ID #1 all the time."  "I want to use ID #49 to avoid
conflicts, but then you have to allow 1-49 systems to JL with you."

Can't the ID # be made just an generic value?  We could use the last 4 digits
of our phone #.  Or our node #.  Or have CNet just assign me "the next
available ID #, at time of JL connection".


HH> well how about the systems serial number!

Fine with me.  Anything that is guaranteed to be 100% unique.

Right now very few systems seem to be JL'ing, but in x months/years, who knows
how wide-spread this great feature will be.

Allowing each system to pick, at random, their own (hopefully) unique own ID
#, will be like allowing each BBS to pick their own Fidonet net/node #.  Not the
best way to do it.

Plan for the future.

--962--

D> Now, Bill, why not have it simply assume ALL days if NONE of the GADGETS,
D> including the string gadget, is filled in.

Is this a suggestion or the way it currently works?
(I didn't see this mentioned in the ReadMe.)

> Sun=Sun
> Mon=Mon
> Tue=Tue
> None=All

I don't know how clear that will be for users.
"None=None" would be clearer to me.

And I was hoping that we could quickly disable/enable certain events
just by setting them to "None/No-Days".  WITHOUT a need to remove them
entirely and then re-enter all the data back in.

Also, the readme calls it "duration", the CONFIG calls it "Valid For", is this
the "exact # of mins" or an "end HHMM time"?  The ReadMe JoinLink example
(#224) shows it means both.
"45" might mean "45 mins", it might mean "0045am".
"2300" might mean "2300 mins", it might mean "2300pm".

I would much rather enter start and end times, (1020-1455), than to count on
my fingers and toes the exact min length or hr+min length.

Also, for multiple events that need to cover a range of times, back to back.
Which is clearer:
1> 0300-0445 0446-0730 0731-0900
2> 0300-0145 0446-0244 0731-0129

#1 shows "no gaps" at a glance.

--963--

P> BA> Shawn, I too have a few scrambled msg bases.
P> BA> Did you notice if it started occurring ONLY after you ran repair_sub?
P> BA> Not before?

P> Well I may have created my own problem, a few weeks ago, i added a new
P> hd..

I don't think it is anything you or I are doing wrong.  (Althought it could
be.)  I've managed to duplicate this bug on demand.

I read item #11 and its 47 responses.
All is fine.
I run RR to rebuilt that sub.
I read item #11 and its 47 responses.  Chopped/lengthened/chars added/etc to
many of the responses.

Backup first, and give it a try.

This is with "repair_sub CNet 2.72 >>ALPHA 3.0<<" that came with "CNet 2.75
>>ALPHA 3.0<<".

If RR is the problem, I hope we can:
1)  Get RR fixed
2)  Have it repair the scrambled subs.

I don't think this 'msg clipping' is the fault of x/ifido.  I'm
getting it in fido and non-fido subs.  Getting it in msgs posted pre-
275 and under 275.

1) Try this test.
2) Creat a dummy sub.
3) Post 1 item, post a few responses to it.
4) See that they are 100% readable.
5) Run RR.
6) See clippage and random chars at the start of each msg.

I just re-verified this again today, Sunday 6PM.

Ken, can we get a quickie repair_sub replacement?

Or am I doing something wrong with steps 1-6?

--964--

F> Gee I would like to make it happen, but I can't seem to download this file
F> for some reason... It keeps telling me that I've downloaded my file limit
F> for the day... NOT!

Ken (and MANY CNet's around the world) still have a few subs that are
accidently charging 100x many more file-credits than they should for DLs.

> # Title            Size   Credits Description
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 1 Ami-Mud.LHA      341K 100/ 341K MUD U*IX and Amiga C sources

The bug was fixed long ago, but the erroneous settings remain.

Ken, please warning users about this in the Readme (and/or other
highly-visible areas) and instruct them to "EL ALL".

--965--

>AO
>Adopt from which partition [0]? [RETURN]
>Please select a valid partition.

Could this be made to assume a default of a VALID partition instead of
an INVALID one?  (A default of the 1st value in my partition-range
would be a perfect choice.)  Maybe even show me the partition list,
too.

Something like:
>Adopt from which partition 4,6-9 [4]?

--966--

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've always successfully executed a DOS script at log-off by
replacing #1 with #2 in BBSTEXT.

1>@ Logoff complete
2>@ Logoff complete {#4 Execute Pfiles:TrackRec.dos %23 %39}

It now places every caller at the DOS prompt, giving him full
access to DOS.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--967--

I have 6,100 files I need to place online immediately.

All have complete, very detailed AmigaDOS filenotes.

When trying "AO4" or even "AO4!" CNet still calls the full-screen
editor 6,100 times.

Also,

Online, when I "AO" 9 files and try and use AmigaDOS date/time stamps,
here's what I get:

   AmigaDOS             Online
   --------            --------
1) 04-Dec-91           3-Aug-87
2) 15-Nov-91          18-Feb-89
3) 07-Jun-89          21-Feb-87
4) 06-Apr-89           4-Dec-91
5) 18-Feb-89           6-Apr-89
6) 22-Jan-89          15-Nov-91
7) 19-Dec-87          22-May-93
8) 03-Aug-87          19-Dec-87
9) 21-Feb-87          22-Jan-89

Correct dates, but not for the matching files.

I REALLY need these 2 features before I can go online.

--968--

> The Yank command has also been added to the "respond or pass"
> prompt while reading in a subboard.  The ENTIRE item (including
> all responses) will be Yanked.

Please consider changing this slightly...

From a "respond or pass" prompt:
1) "Y" will always yank the current response.
2) "Y47" will yank just response #47.
3) "Y ALL" will yank that 1 item and all its responses.
4) "Y 3-10" will yank that just those responses.

This will allow:
1) Consistency with "ed#", "scan#", "respond#" etc, that already
   work this way.
2) Yank just the responses you need.  No need to yank 134 responses
   if you just need #84.
   (Big gathering time, compressing time, DLing time, etc.)
3) Doesn't prevent the current "yank item and all responses".

--969--


I have NOT played with load/scratch/locking.

I'm hoping my C code or Arexx scripts would just be able to determine Y/N, is
data currently locked?  And then let ME decide to "wait until it's unlocked",
or "try again in x secs", or "exit and inform the user", etc.

--970--

Not counting its several new, handy features, did we lose 1 feature
that used to be available under CNet v2.63?

OLD> We could specify a start-date, start-time, end-date, end-time.
NEW> We can specify a start-date, start-time, end-time, but no end-date.

How would I do something like this with the new events scheduler:

CHARGE-TABLE #0 from 10May-21Sep.
CHARGE-TABLE #1 the rest of the year.

And don't say "specify the days 1-by-1 with separate events".  :-)

--971--

I have 4 different l:fifo-handler's.  None have versions #s so I'm not
sure which is which any more.  PLEASE stick some kind of version # or
date in them.

--972--

This is regarding v2.75 bugfixes.lha...

Then I use the Control-Panel's (CP) pulldown menu to "close port" the port
closes and unloads from memory, but the CP display still shows those
non-existing ports as being "idle"...

> 1     (no one)          0         0                         Idle
> 4     (no one)          0         0                         Idle

The last 2 versions of CP both had the same version #s
"CNet 2.75 >>ALPHA 3.0 <<", so I don't know how to accurately report
bugs.   The bytesize was 32864.

CP/SysInfo also reports "Next event: -1048.0 mins (on port 0)".
Should a negative mins value be here?

--973--

I love the new "AO Which partition default [4]" prompt.

The same smart-default-prompt is needed when [MO]ving a file from 1
sub to another.  Or ANYTIME a partition is asked for.

--974--

Ken, all of my eariler "AO!" DOS-dates/call-editor/partition-prompt
problems have be remedied.  THANKS!!!

But I now get:
> Upload list full!
> Upload list full!
> Upload list full!
> Upload list full!
> Upload list full!

I have my CONFIG/LIMITS "max UL per batch" set at 15.

I feel that this 'limit' should be ignored when doing "AO" and only be
obeyed for true-UL'ing purposes.  NOT applied to "AO" which would
pertain to files already on my HD, already in the correct partitions,
correct dirs, etc.

Trying to alter "CONFIG/LIMITS max UL per batch"...

When I call CONFIG from the control-panel, edit CONFIG/LIMITS max/
batch, hit SAVE, my change is ignored.  If I close everything down,
run CONFIG, edit, re-run CNet, I can get it to convert to my "999"
setting.  Then again close everything down, run config, change back to
"15", save, etc.  I have to do this EACH time I need to AO more files
than I wish callers to be allowed to batch UL.  Any way to make it
pick-up the changes immediately?

It would also be very handy to get "AO!" to report some stats after
it is done.
> Adopted 291 files at 4783 Kbytes, skipped 34 files.

I hate to make such a big deal over all this "AO" stuff, but everyone
that converts to CNet from other BBS software is most likely going to
need powerful, bug-free, well thought out "AO" stuff.  (As well as any
SysOp that needs to bulk-import a large # of files for whatever reason.)

The easier/faster it is to switch to CNet, the more likely people will.

I would love to tell future CNet SysOps that 1000s of files can be
placed online as simple as "AO!".

--975--

When I run amaint online, on a sub that has:
1) 'adopt orphans' ON
2) 'immediate transform' OFF,
3) 'ARCSs transformable' NONE

I still sometimes see:

> No transformation script found!
> No transformation script found!
> No transformation script found!

when that sub is reached.

Shouldn't CNet NOT even be looking for any transformation script if #3
is set to NONE?

Also, it would be handy if we could get amaint to report:
> Can't find transformation script s:foo2fii.
So we know exactly what is missing.

--976--

Ken, when I send NetMail, is there a method which would allow me
to keep a copy for my own purposes?

(NOT just a ascii .PUT'ed file, kept offline, with the text in it.
But a true, CNet msg/mail format, online, date/time stamped, full TO/
FROM/header/info etc.)

Something like local-mail's:
> Return original message also [No]?

But just:
> Keep duplicate copy [No]?

What I would REALLY like to do is setup a "netmail sub".
Everything posted there is sent out as netmail.

Full CNet msg/mail format, online, date/time stamped, full TO/FROM/
header/info, scan, browse, Z, search, auto-purge, etc.

Currently, I feel all the netmail I write is instantly lost forever
(my copy anyway) as soon as it is sent out.

--977--

Regarding CONFIG/ACCOUNTING...

> Per NetMail sent       (rate 1-2-3)
> Credits for NETMAIL    (rate 1-2-3)

What is the difference between those two items?

I thought all the values in CONFIG/ACCOUNTING could be debits or
credits based on whether + or - cost-values were specified.

--978--

Enter the gfile menu here at FW (or my BBS).
Use FIND.
Use EXAMINE on 1 of the files found.

Afterwords, you'll see:

> FIND: Again, Download, *, Examine, Grab, Quit, [Pass]
> Enter item#, Scan, Quit, ?=Menu
> #!)##!),#-) (#!#-#!) #-) #-#*/#!+#L# >

or other random chars and BBSTEXT chars in the prompt.

--979--

If you attempt to edit your user dictionary with the FSE, but decide
to ABORT the save, "_edbuff0" isn't deleted.

If you later OA, your user-dictionary will be the long filenote for
100s of adopted files.

(Do I find the oddest things, or what?)

--980--

Ken, please consider having the Control-Panel show MODEM-0 and
MODEM-2 instead of "IDLE" during MODEM-0 and MODEM-2 events and arexx
scripts.

--981--

What would cause TrapDoor to re-initialize my modem every 15 mins,
hour after hour?  No calls or other activity during these periods.

> 29-May-93 02:52:32  Initializing modem
> 29-May-93 02:52:34  Waiting for call
> 29-May-93 03:07:34  Initializing modem
> 29-May-93 03:07:37  Waiting for call
> 29-May-93 03:22:37  Initializing modem
> 29-May-93 03:22:41  Waiting for call
> 29-May-93 03:37:41  Initializing modem
> 29-May-93 03:37:44  Waiting for call
> 29-May-93 03:52:44  Initializing modem
> 29-May-93 03:52:47  Waiting for call

--982--

When moving an uploaded file from 1 sub to another, could CNet 1st attempt
to do a RENAME, and failing that, then do a full copy and delete?

RENAME should work as long as you're not trying to move across partition
boundries.

You can RENAME 100 100K files in seconds, even on the slowest of HDs.
COPY takes longer.

--983--

S>         Just wondering how many other sysops call ld, just to have to
S> waste time on someone putting up another 1-10 vote topics on stuff that

There have been a few suggestions for new features to control this WITHOUT
forcing all SysOps to remove VOTE-ADD access from all callers.  And WITHOUT
forcing all SysOps to remove GO-TO-VOTE-AT-LOGIN.  (I rather like having
both.)

What would you (or anyone) like to see?  I feel it could all be handled nicely
with just 1 addition...

The poster of the new vote-topic should also be asked:
> Force all to vote [No]?

(Of course, the SysOp could remove that line from BBSTEXT and make ALL new
vote topics non-force.)

No SysOp would have to forbid new vote-topics.
No SysOp would have to remove GO-TO-VOTE-AT-LOGIN.
No caller would be forced to vote on any/all topics.

--984--

> Terminal A=ANSI, C=CBM, I=IBM, S=Sky, [NONE]:

I have NO use for it either.  But haven't found a way to remove it entirely.

If Ken would make it:
> Terminal A=ANSI, C=CBM, I=IBM, S=Sky, [NONE]: \g0
like a bazillion other prompts that we can already remove, it too would be
fully removable.

Another way to address this problem would be to give CNet a new EP choice.
Each user could set his individual preferences:
1 ANSI
2 CBM
3 IBM
4 SKY
5 NONE
6 ASK AT EACH LOG-IN

It would be interesting to see how many people would specifically set
it to #6.  I'm guessing 0%-10%.  Which tells us a lot about how
necessary/unnecessary CNet's current method is.  (Ask 100% of the
users, 100% of the time, on every single call they make, to every
CNet, and forbid the SysOps from ever removing this prompt or altering
the default in any way.)

> More...
> Removing terminal question at log-in...
This would require that Ken (not us) change BBSTEXT from #1 into #2:
1) Terminal A=ANSI, C=CBM, I=IBM, S=Sky, [NONE]:
2) Terminal A=ANSI, C=CBM, I=IBM, S=Sky, [NONE]: {G0}

which would allow us (not Ken) to change #2 into:
3) (nothing)

Too, too simple, to NOT have Ken do it.

--985--

 S>         Just wondering how many other sysops call ld, just to have to
 S> waste time on someone putting up another 1-10 vote topics on stuff that

 There have been a few suggestions for new features to control this WITHOUT
 forcing all SysOps to remove VOTE-ADD access from all callers.  And WITHOUT
 forcing all SysOps to remove GO-TO-VOTE-AT-LOGIN.  (I rather like having
 both.)

 What would you (or anyone) like to see?  I feel it could all be handled nicely
 with just 1 addition...

 The poster of the new vote-topic should also be asked:
 > Force all to vote [No]?

 (Of course, the SysOp could remove that line from BBSTEXT and make ALL new
 vote topics non-force.)

 No SysOp would have to forbid new vote-topics.
 No SysOp would have to remove GO-TO-VOTE-AT-LOGIN.
 No caller would be forced to vote on any/all topics.

As always, the SysOp could later edit that flag and make any previous
no-force topics into force-topics.  (If he felt they were that important.)

Or later make any force-topics into no-force.  (If he felt they were too
frivolous to warrant 100% required answering.)

--986--

>Auto-purging BBSLIST entries...

If Ken isn't considering adding this, perhaps he could:
1)  Offer us the C header file used in "!!!00000000000000".
2)  Write the 'post-date' to "!!!00000000000000".

I'm sure someone will write a 'purge-after-x-days' program.

(I'd really like to see better filenames used like "BBSLIST.DAT"
instead of "!!!00000000000000".)

D> which essentially meant, "This bbs was still in operation on this date."
D> Now, the poster has the option of editing any of the info, including this
D> validation date, so I'm assuming that program was set to delete any entry
D> that was outdated.

D> By allowing the date as part of the ADD a Number portion, all the SysOp
D> would have to be worried about would be the timeframe between this date
D> and the purge date, be it 3 months, 3years, 3weeks, etc.

I like this idea a lot.
I hope I'm understanding this correctly...

1)  The SysOp sets a default BBSLIST purge field to x days.
    (Just 1.  NOT 1 for each entry in the BBS List.)
2)  Users add BBSes to the list.
3)  Each entry is deleted every x days UNLESS 1 or more of the following
    occurs:
    a) The original poster edits any field of that BBS's info.
    b) The poster 'touches' that BBS's post-date, bringing the post-date
       upto today's-date.
    c) The SysOp turns on an individual "no-purge flag" for that 1 BBS.

(3a:  Automatically does a "3b", too.)
(3b:  No need to re-enter all of that BBS's info, every x days.)
(3c:  For 'long-term' systems.)

--987--

D> If you want the OLD / command back, simply swap the / and : lines in your
D> BBSMENU file. That way, the / will act as the : and vice-versa.

I feel that will just confuse callers more and more.  I'd like to see CNet use
an EXACT DOS-like style, not its current ALMOST DOS-like style.

: gets you root
/ gets you back 1 level
// gets you back 2 levels
/// gets you back 3 levels
//3 gets you back 2 levels and into dir #3
:4/3/6
etc, etc, etc...
Support them all.

D> As for DMS files, you can't EXTRACT a DMS file. You CAN, however, list the
D> compression info, which is how I have MY DMS's set up. Listing info
D> includes start and end tracks, compression mode, etc. A whole screenful of
D> neat info.

This is what I've done to my system.

I highly recommend it.  ANY DMS info is better than "unknown archive type".
I wonder how many callers say to themselves, "The VERY popular DMS format is
totally unknown to CNET???"  Not knowing it can be very simply added, but very
rarely is.

If anyone wants to add it, just edit CONFIG/ARCHIVERS/DMS/VIEW to show:
> dms >%s VIEW "%s"
Too simple.

Ken, please make it the default on the master CNet disks.

--988--

 GK>  o  The FIDO handler seems to be adding an extra carriage return on all
 GK>     of its output.  That is, each line is suffixed with ^M^M^J where it
 GK>     should be ^M^J - can this be fixed?

 I feel FIFO should add ABSOLUTELY nothing in any way.  FIFO should
 give the user exactly what it is given.  If you need extra linefeeds
 you can always add them via \n yourself.  But if FIFO adds them (1 or
 2) automatically, I have no way to ever remove them.

 GK>  o  Is there a way to set how maintenance sets the dates for adopted
 GK>     files?  A subboard flag of using the file date or today's date would
 GK>     be handy.

 I'd be happy with 1 global CONFIG setting, instead of 215 (in my case), 1 per
 sub.

 GK>     file with the same number but has characters appended on it (i.e.
 GK>     bbsport1 and bbsport1.backup), the second one will also appear in the
 GK>     config list.  I changed my bbsport1.backup to old.bbsport1.backup
 GK>     and the duplicates disappeared.

 I had a whole list of bbsport1.263 bbsport1.275 files.
 CNet should just check/use bbsport0 - bbsport99, and ignore the rest.

--989--

Also, Ken, when I try and YANK this item with "Y" from the respond/pass
prompt, i get:
> No messages were yanked
from CNet

I have no other yanks running.
No other yanked files waiting for DL.

--990--

Inside "CNet/3 JOIN conference", I Hit YES at "Do you want to list
all of the noise prototypes?"

The more prompt becomes...

> More[Y,n,c]\q3

With old-style MCI codes.

--991--

Xfido, version "CNet 2.76 >>ALPHA 3.0<<" is definitely exporting
killed msgs.

Try this:
1) Post a Fidonet msg.
2) Kill it.
3) Verify that it is gone.
4) Run Xfido.
5) Watch it go out via Fidonet.

--992--

My concerns with DrawEd are "how do we limit/control its use/abuse":

1 Which callers, or levels, can be allowed/forbidden access to it?
2 How do I remove DrawEd entirely?
3 Which local/Fidonet/UUCP subs allow ANSI dancing?
4 How do I limit the proposed 'delay-per-char' saves?  (Users could
  insert giant delays between each char.)

I hate to sound like The Wet Blanket, Party Pooper here, but with such power,
comes such abuse, and therefore needs for control/limitations.

But things are going to get unnecessarily complex if we have to add more flags
to each user's acct, or subs, just for DrawEd.

I just see DrawEd as a toy/kid's game.

--993--

Would it be worth having Ken add a gadget to CONFIG/EVENTS marked "TEST".

Hitting it would run the currently selected event, NOW.

I've been playing with many events, and my system clock, trying
to demo each event while I watch.

Sure would be handy to just click "TEST" instead.

--994--

D> And what is this 5% that can be gotten by using the quotes?

Filenames with spaces or whatever other chars will make 'quotes' mandatory.

Also,
I haven't checked the last few CNet releases, but the 10 updates before that,
CNet's s:xfoo2foo scripts also fail miserably under certain filenames.

Do you want these to work 100% of the time or 99.999%?

Use double quotes everywhere.
Makedir dirs that are guaranteed to be unique.
Allow for extracting/deleting filenames that may have the 'protect-bit' set.
Check for available space before extracting.
Extract to different dirs for multi-lined systems.
Allow for archivers that extract to full sub/sub/sub/subdir names.
Check that makedir isn't trying to make a dir that already exists.
Delete all the extracted files even if the caller drops carrier.
Shut off archiver-options that prompt the user "overwrite this file?".
Don't use archivers that crash/GURU on badly corrupted files.

Any 1 of 10-20 things can cause TRANSFORM to fail.
And folks will wonder why.

D> BA> Check that makedir isn't trying to make a dir that already exists.

D> Ah yes, here it is(hehe), what would happen if you DID tell MAKEDIR to
D> make a directory that already existed? I thought it would simply abort
D> when it saw an existing driectory was found?

Most likely:
> makedir failed returncode 10

(Of course, the user online won't know what happened.  CNet doesn't display
the error text.  I feel it should.  Without it, it can be EXTREMELY hard to
find the bugs in your scripts.  You just see "Transformation completed!" no
matter what.)

D> I thought it would simply abort...
Do you *WANT* your transform-scripts to abort/fail 1/2 way through?  The point
is to make it work.  Make it transform.

--995--

I'm not sure how this works, but this is how I feel it SHOULD work:

1) The ULer only gets credit for the AFTER-TRANSFORMED size.
   (No point in giving users MORE credits for ULing .txt non-compressed files
   instead of .lha compressed ones.)
2) Online, all users should see the AFTER-TRANSFORMED size.
   (Immediately, not 12-24hrs later during amaint.)
3) All DLers should be charged the AFTER-TRANSFORMED size.
   (After all, that's the file's size now.)

--996--

Ken, when trying to YANK the current item from the respond/pass prompt,
I get:

> **** System Message
>  Too many yank tasks are already running.  Try again later.

I really don't want to move from that item's prompt, because I
just know I won't be able to find it again later.

Would it be possible to allow x yank-tasks to be running (as
config'ed), and an additional 5 (or whatever) to be queued in line,
waiting their turn next?  Only when x+5 yanks are running will users
ever see the "Try again later" text.

LH> I usually post offline... Also I think CNet needs to queue yank tasks into
LH> an order and just execute them one at a time in that order. That way we
LH> would never see the message "Too many Yank tasks running" again.

Definitely.  I made this suggestion to Ken a few days ago.
(I think he's stopped reading my "random Q&A" item.)

Should we have an 'unlimited' # in the queue?

A fixed limit of 5-10?

A 2nd config variable?
> Max # of yask-tasks:
> max # of yank-queues:

A limit of x tasks+queues per user?  (It could still be a global variable in
CONFIG.)
> Max # of tasks+queues per user:
(That's my favorite.  Overall you could have 100s, but not more than x per any
1 user.  It would stop any 1 user from getting 17 yanks going (running or
queued) and STILL making all the other users get the "Too many Yank tasks
running/queued" msg.)

--997--

On a related matter, I always wanted to see the "private Y/N" prompt
come BEFORE the question itself.  Like...

> Do you wish to keep your address private?
> Enter your address:

> Do you wish to keep your phone # private?
> Enter your phone #:

You'll probably get different (more accurate) answers to questions
if callers know that they have the power to show/hide certain data.

Currently they might give a dummy phone #, and AFTERWARDS find out
that they could have given their real phone #, and just opt'ed to keep
it confidential.  (But they didn't know that at the time.)
(And they aren't going to bother to correct it later.)

Callers that have memorized CNet's new-user questions & privacy-flags
won't have this problem.  But what about the rest of the folks?

As a 'somewhat fix', you could change your new-user questions into:

> You will later be asked if you wish to keep your address private.
> Enter your address:
> Do you wish to keep your address private?

> You will later be asked if you wish to keep your phone # private.
> Enter your phone #:
> Do you wish to keep your phone # private?

Unfortunately making the new-user procedure LONGER, and kind of odd,
though.

--998--

I did it, I did it!  Searching for this 1 was driving me crazy.

1)  Go into the root msg BASE.
2)  Hit NF  (2a. Make sure there are some new-file 'finds'.)
3)  Enter a msg subdir.
4)  SnoopDOS is reportedly looking for:
    UDBase0:main/tt0.exit 
    UDBase0:main/sys.exit 
    UDBase0:11.0/tt0.entry
    UDBase0:11.0/sys.entry
(Files in "UDBase0:" instead of the correct "Base0:...." dirs.)

If I skip step #2 or #2a, all is fine.

--999--

BB> BA> Is this the recommended/best way to do this?
BB> BA> Isn't the origin zone/net/node stored in the Fidonet msg format some
BB> BA> place?

BB> There IS one in the msg structure, but as it turns out, that is used to
BB> store the system's address that LAST TOSSED the message!

So each system that msgs pass through become the 'origin'?
With no record keeping of the REAL origin, other than the origin-line?

Are all IBM/Amiga BBSes parsing the origin-line then, for this info?
I've seen some wildly, er ah, unique, origin-lines.

>zone/net/node in origin-line...
Does Fidonet policy state "it must be present" or "it must be present in a
certain form/place/style/size/etc"?

CNet needs to do some VERY clever parsing, then.

> item: 1 (of 1)
> subj: AreaMgr Receipt
> from: Gecho  (Gecho@1:2410/297.0)
> on  : Tue  8-Jun-1993  3:13a
> 
> (text deleted)
> 
> --- GEcho 1.00+
>  * Use %HELP for instructions

I hope CNet isn't looking too hard for a return address in my feed's
origin line.

--EOF--

Sunday 06-Jun-93 23:57:31

-Bill "Mr. BBS" Beogelein, 810-473-2020, 2-line HST 14.4k USR DS, 1:2410/207

