
--171--

>Well not to let a cat out of the bag, Ken has been working on Fidomail...
Are these things a 'secret' for any reason????
With every passing day, more and more copies of DLG, Xenolink, Starnet,
Ami-Express are being sold.  Why not list anything/everything Ken
has planned?  (*I've* spent a fortune in the wrong BBS software
because I didn't know that secret 'feature x' was currently being
written to my existing software.)

>If maybe you wrote an easy-to-use mailing program and tosser
Even if it just answered the phone, received a pkt, hung up.

>Besides NONE of this stuff comes with any kind of warrenty or satisfaction
>guarenteed clause... sorry to say, but your stuck.
You buy your Chevy without a steering wheel.
You buy your own Ford steering wheel.
(Yes, I consider true, full, out-of-the-box Fidonet support *that*
important.)
Ford tells you any/all problems are not their fault, they just made the part.
Chevy tells you their cars don't come with steering wheels.
You're stuck.

Don't make C-net's integrity forever depend on the features/bugs/updates
of any 3rd party software/shareware programs.

Ditto for having true, full, out-of-the-box Usenet support.
(100x bigger, better than Fidonet.)

--172--
C-net is a BBS, not a term.                                            
I feel it should have only the bare min term features.                 
Ken could easily TRIPLE the size and complexity of this *BBS* by       
adding a full term package, and a full Fax package.  Just the          
BBS side of things could keep a programmer busy for ages.              
Leave the other things for term prgs and fax prgs.                     
(Both prgs would need to do this, not just C-net.)                     
                                                                       
> in the cnet term so you dont need to close a port to load a term prg. 
If a term and a BBS correctly share a port, there is never a need to.  
Too bad more software doesn't multitask/share resources as they should.
                                                                       
Everyone's opinions differ, lets hear some other comments.

--173--
Regarding "Name used on disk (unique)" from the spiral-bound manual...
"You may not use the same disk name for any 2 subboards or
subdirectories on the system."

Can I use "GRAPHICS" twice, as long as I specify different partitions?
> UDBASE0:GRAPHICS/ vs UDBASE1:GRAPHICS/

Can I use "SOUNDS" twice, as long as they are msg VS file bases?
> BASE4:GRAPHICS/ vs UDBASE4:GRAPHICS/

Will there be any conflicts here?
--174--
I like #0's idea, but prime/non-prime usage can change.
Per day of week, per hour of day, per holiday, per phone rate changes
(they're based on the CALLER'S rate, not the receiving BBS rate),
etc...

I'd like to see things done in real-time.  Automatically adjust a caller's
time-limited based on:
1)  How many of your lines are open or in use right now.
    I've been online many 4-8 line systems and have my time expire.
    What a waste of system resources when there are 3-7 other lines not
    being used at all.

2)  How many calls have come in over the last x mins.
    If there have only been 2 calls in the last 4 hours, chances are this
    is a non-prime time period, even if it usually is very busy.

3)  How long has it been since the previous caller called.
    If no one has called in the last 2.4 *hours*, chances are this
    is a non-prime time period, even if it usually is very busy.

These would help even-out that very busy, very open activity graph.

Ken, let's kick around these ideas *a lot* before you decide on
anything (if anything).

And how about a 'borrow-time' flag for each group and user?  If is it
set ON, and your time runs out, the system will let you stay online
until ALL the other lines are in use.  As long as there is at least 1
open line, you can stay online.  You could create a true, 100% usage
system this way, and incoming calls would still NEVER hit a busy
signal due to 'borrow-time' users.  (They'd be logged-off as soon as
all lines became busy.)

It would drive my crazy to pay a fortune for 8 modems, multi-port
cards, 8 phone lines, and see all of them sit unused during non-peak
periods.

--175--
Ken> Sometimes I call from a terminal which CRASHES when it receives ANSI
Ken> codes.

I've seen these, as well as terminals that don't support ansi at all.  When
calling-in from work, that's all I have access to.  How do I edit groups/
areas/accts?  That's a lot of power to lose (never can change any groups,
any area configs, any user accts at all), in order to gain vde.

--176--

0) Continuous reading                   1) Prompt between responses
2) Clear and prompt between responses                              
Can #2 be made to work with or without ansi ON?                    

If asni is ON, it works as it does now.                            

If ansi is OFF, just clear the screen, display (or re-display) the 
header, then display whatever the remaining unread lines of the msg are.

--177--

LOGBBS is a powerful addition.
>307      OLM      2     MyLogName

I hate to keep asking for more and more, but
would it be too much to ask to allow MCI code expansion there also?
If I setup a separate custom LOG.OLM file, it comes out like:
> 31-Aug  4:36 OLM                  BROADCAST
> 31-Aug  6:36 OLM                  BROADCAST
> 31-Aug  7:31 OLM                  BROADCAST
> 31-Aug  8:46 OLM                  BROADCAST
Not really too informative.

But with MCI expansion in BBSLOG:
>307    2     MyLogName   OLM- %V3 %V4 ... (thru remainder of this line...)
> 31-Aug  4:19 BROADCAST     OLM- Bill Beogelein 313-473-2020
> 31-Aug  6:32 BROADCAST     OLM- Bill Beogelein 313-473-2020
> 31-Aug  7:49 BROADCAST     OLM- Bill Beogelein 313-473-2020
> 31-Aug  8:35 BROADCAST     OLM- Bill Beogelein 313-473-2020

I'm hoping this will be simple for you to add.  (If it's just feeding
the string through Cnet's MCI expansion function before putting it to
the log.)

(Switching LOG_NAME and LOG_CUSTOM positions lifts the current
"no spaces" and "a-z 0-9" and 9-char (ugh) limitations on LOG_NAME, too.)

(Also, any more word on the new MCI width-formatting possibilities?)

--178--

Ken, did you get my email about possibly 'inviting' me into the
Beta-Test area?  I'll even take READ-ONLY access, if you wish.
No answer yet.

--179--

Pattern adopting orphans *was* perfect.
> *.arc
> *.lhz
> ab*.zip
> z*
It did everything fine.  We could list/import *exactly* the files we wanted.

Now, if you know a file starts with the letter "Z":
> Z*
Now you have to sit through lists 100s of filenames that contain the
letter "Z" anywhere in them.  (including all .LZH .ZOO .ZIP files.)

--180--

I need in "adopt orphans" for more than 5000 files.
All have DOS filenotes describing them.  Anyway to get C-net to
automatically import those filenotes into their online short descriptions?
(I thought that is used to.)

--181--

I tried to setup a macro-key (^E) so I could repeatedly
add 20 similarly named subboards:
> AL
> Use direct disk access [No]? No
> Is this a subdirectory [No]? Yes
> Title to appear on List    : Fred Fish Disks  <-leave cursor here

Why doesn't this seem to work:
> AL;NYFred Fish Disks

This line is skipped altogether:
> Title to appear on List    : Fred Fish Disks

And I instead end up at:
> Name used on disk (unique) :

--182--

When I got booted off the system just now due to an expired time limit, are
all my msg-read pointers getting saved to disk?  It just happened here and
'RA' is now re-reading everything I have already read.

--183--

> 19-05-92 05-19-92 19-May-92 19May92....
But using '19May92' instead of '19-May-92' would help further the "-" as
the global, standard C-net "between-this-range" specifier everywhere.

Date ranges could also use "-":  19May92-28May92

(As well as saving a few chars typing each time.)

--184--

Please consider having C-net display "^C" ONLY when the user has,
in fact, hit ^C.  If the user hits NO/ABORT/SKIP/ETC, it shouldn't inform
him that "^C" was somehow hit instead.
^C should be ^C.

--185--

Ken, please consider having the SINCE range specifier tell the user when
it's been fed a bad date.

Just have it display a line of BBStext if it is passed a date
it doesn't understand.  (This could tell the user the needed date-format.)

Is it possible to have Cnet understand several different date formats as
input?  Trying to train the general public (who might call 100s of
different style of BBSes) can be tricky.

--186--

Ken, are there any plans to rename JOIN to JOIN_CONF or something.
c:Join is a standard AmigaDOS cmd, so we have to deal with
c:PATH ordering, conflict if we want c:Join resident also, etc.

In my opinion, *NO* C-net cmds should have the same exact names             
of ANYTHING on a standard WB disk.  
(Whether c: libs, devs, handlers, etc.)

--187--
I'm not a big fan of ansi.  But partial screen scrolling might be  
interesting.  Basically the msg's header is dislayed and stays put.
The msg's text then scrolls through its screen-fills beneath it.   
                                                                   
Lines 1-2 or 3 would display:                                      
>#3/3 from: Big Brother  (Ken Pletzer)                              
>     on  : Tue  8-Sep-1992  1:24p                                  
                                                                   
Lines 3-24 would display that msg's text.  Msgs  24 lines would    
fill only lines 3-24 repeatedly.                                   
                                                                   
Please have a user flag "enable partial screen scrolling" so       
we can turn this on/off independently of an ON ASNI setting.       
(ANSI would have to be ON, though.)

Perhaps if the item is a file post, then the filename/size/description header
info could also be included in the "stay put lines".

--188--

Ken, what are all these dirs that are being created:
> UPLOAD1 (dir)
> UPLOAD2 (dir)
> UPLOAD3 (dir)
> UPLOAD4 (dir)
> UPLOAD5 (dir)
Temp storage for U/Ls?

If so, please consider:
1)  NOT having a full set of them in EVERY udbase.   Why was this needed?
    (5 lines, 50 udbases, 250 extra dirs.)
    Each 1 uses a full block of HD space, even then empty.
2)  A config option that specifies a path for them.
    (A ram disk is very fast, 0 head moves, survives warm boots, easy
    to fix if a crash during U/L creates read/write errors
    or validation errors, 0 disk fragmentation.)
    Users could specify any path they wanted.

Just create a SINGLE set of temp dirs there (UPLOAD1-5 for a 5 line system).

Perhaps a BBSconfig line to specify a temp U/L path.
If "-" then use the current per-subboard method.

--189--

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this entirely but,

I have a udbase subboard setup as:
> Path to data        : D:
> Unique dirname      : MyDir
> Partitions          : 0
I want all posts and responses stored in D:MyDir.
I want all uploaded files to go to UDBASE0:MyDir.
(Isn't this why these 2 are settable independantly?)

Uploads are going to D:MyDir instead.

--190--

When adding a new subboard and the BBS creates its needed dirs, would
it be possible to filenote those dirs with that board's title?
Some systems can quickly become big and complex.

>Title to appear on List    : Utilities: WB2.0 Only
>Name used on disk (unique) : Utils

c:List
> Utils                        Dir ----rwed 07-Sep-92 16:24:11
> : Utilities:  WB2.0 Only

Just for SysOp info purposes.

--191--

Regarding the +-* marking of subboards.
1) + My Subboard     (joined, nothing new)
2) - My Subboard     (not joined, nothing new)
3) * My Subboard     (joined, new msgs)
4) x My Subboard     (not joined, new msgs)
Only #4 is missing.

--192--

From the control panel's userinfo window...
Can you check on the y positioning of:
> Birthdate:  01-01-92
>   Voice #:  313-473-2020
My #s here are touching each other.

--193--

Editor's ".$ search/replace".  Very handy.
> Search for:
> Replace with:

Could this search be started as soon as the user hits RETURN after
entering his "Search for" string?  If no matches are found, there's no
point in even asking him for his "Replace string:" afterwards.  Just
report and return to the search prompt for another try.

> Search for: I typed this in here...
> Replace with: I meant to type this there...
> I can't even find your 'search' string.
Then why did you ask me to type all that replacement-string in?

Time is (long distance) money.
--194--

Don M, how about this.                                       
In C or CC or JOIN:                                        
The user types text.                                       
It's held in a buffer.                                     
When he hits RETURN it is displayed to the other person(s).
                                                           
No text input is intermixed.                               
No one 'waits' for anyone else.                            
No concerns about different methods for C CC or JOIN.

--195--
> Spellbreaker writes...
> 2. Make the Carbon copy option in the subs Tri-state --
>         Carbon copy item: no, mail only, both

As it stands now, if the sysop (or any *1* caller) doesn't want to
get carbon copies for a certain subboard, and has the sysop turn it
off, NO ONE gets any carbon copies at all.  Even if 2000 callers *DO*
want to get copy-copies in that base.
(*I* want to know about mail addressed to me.)

Count me as another vote for making it tri-state.
It would NOT be the usual yes/no/follow-subboard-default tri-state.
But rather, it would have to be something like:
1)  No one gets carbon copies.
2)  Everyone gets carbon copies.
3)  User can turn it on/off.
(All 3 would be on a per-subboard basis.  #3 might be tricky to do,
but it's a must.)

SysOps could do:
#1  To save disk space.   (Although its probably a minimal savings.)
#2  The SysOps wants EVERYONE to get/reply/kill their msgs to
    help increase msg base activity.
#3  Let each caller decide.  (If I call several BBSes with many of
    the same fidonet echos, I don't want to see the same msgs
    addressed to me on each of them.)

'Carbon-copy' is too powerful a feature to not go all the way with it.

(Ken, how many of your subboards here have this turned OFF?)
--196--
> Spellerbreaker writes...
> Also, allow files to also be carbon copied as file mail.
> This would be great for personal uploads.
You mean it doesn't?  This is 'a must' for getting a user a file
that he makes a public request for.

--197--
Ken, would you be interested in setting up a multi-user conf session
with me, you, Ray Akey, Eric Parkin, Jim Selleck, Powerslave, Lynx-
Master, Lazarus Long, all your support sysops, etc, and/or whom ever
else.  (Get a good cross section of multi-line, multi-partition, hi-
speed, very large, fidonet, usenet sysops.)  The five of us would pick
a date/time and rendezvous online here to talk about Cnet.

Capture it all for later pubic distribution.
--198--
An 'install' script would be so handy.                             
CLI>  Execute Intall v2.27e v2.28a                                  
Simple DOS cmds would rename all your current files to *_.v2.27e.  
Then copy over with the new cmds.                                  
                                                                   
To un-install (if you can't get the new release working)           
CLI>  Execute Intall v2.28a v2.27e                                  
Renames all the current (new) files to *_.v2.28a.                  
Renames your old files from *_.v2.27e back to their original names.
                                                                   
Full system-wide install and uninstall with a simple, single CLI cmd.    
No more "did you remember to install this/that?"

--199--

Is there a way for me to 'SCAN' all items posted since a certain   
date?  NOT 'responded to' since a certain date, but 'items posted'.

Also, is there a way to tell 'SCAN' to distinguish between those   
items w/files and those without?

--200--
When reading responses, at the "Respond, Pass or ENTER" prompt, can
"-" be made a shorthand equivalent of "-1", and "+" be made a
a shorthand equivalent of "+1"?

--201--

>Use previous term settings [Yes]? No
What exactly does Y/N do here?

--202--
I want a DOS-pfile to be offered at the "respond or pass" prompt.
It needs to get the full path to that current item and/or that response.

ie.  "Base0:MyDir/post/25"
     "Base0:MyDir/response/25/1"
How?

Sure would be handy if we also had a group of "programmer-MCI" codes.
They'd exand into things like:
> Full path to item/response
> Full path to location file
> Full path to current

Then pfiles would get these values simply by the cmd line:
> NEW | MyPfile %x %y %z

Or maybe even the pointer addresses to the user/item/vote structures
themselves.

--203--

Ken, please consider changing ALL 'missing file msg' from:
>Error reading VDE file.
to
>Error reading Systext:subboard.vde file.
Full path and file name.

The caller in post #0 would haved i-n-s-t-a-n-t-l-y known
e-x-a-c-t-l-y what was missing.  Instant-fix instead of calling the
support BBS and posting/waiting for a reply.

This is a big, important request.
--204--
Yanking...
>Remove carriage returns [No]?
Please consider changing this default to YES.
The Amiga standard text file is without trailing C/Rs?
(I know it can be altered ourselves in BBStext.)
(When will we be able to do so with /Gn also?)

--205--
GR> ALSO - Another bug - the + in the Time Zone
GR> thing doesn't work, only -.  And for the mci variable that displays the

I'm not sure when this was changed, but it's now:
>Press RETURN if the this correct.  Otherwise, press "=" to add an hour, or
>"-" to subtract an hour until it is correct.
(= and -)

Ken, are multiple keys possible here?
+ = (shift or unshifted) and up-arrow would all be INCREASE.
- _ (shift or unshifted) and down-arrow would all be DECREASE.

--206--

I guess I just don't deal with months as numbers enough.
I still have to count on my fingers and toes to find out which month
is "07".

Which can be quicker determined to be July?
"07" or "Jul".

--207--
I was assuming things like the following could be done, but I don't think so:
1)  Caller #1 posts a msg asking for a certain program.
    (This is pretty common.  Some BBSes have entire subboards set aside
    just for 'requests'.)
    He sets an "allow-an-UL-to-it" flag on his msg.
2)  A few replies occur discussing it.
3)  Caller #2 has the file that is needed.  He ULs it, attaching it to
    the same msg.
4)  A few more replies occur discussing it.
5)  A newer version of the same program is found.  Caller #2 (since
    he was the original U/Ler and has a "delete-own-UL-flag" set (which now
    also gives "replace-own-UL" powers)) replaces the older version with
    the newer 1.
6)  More replies.  Discussion continues.
Everything stays right here in this 1 post.

With Cnet currently, the above would have to be done like this-
1)  Caller #1 posts a msg asking for a certain program.
2)  A few replies occur discussing it.
3)  Caller #2 has the file that is needed.  He ULs it, but attached to
    a different msg.  He tries to tell everyone where it is, and hopes
    they find it.  (He can't refer to it by #.)
4)  Discussion about this same item now must be split into 2 posts.
5)  A few replies occur.
6)  Caller #2 wants to UL a newly-found updated version.
7)  He has to post it to ANOTHER item, trying to tell everyone where it
    is, hoping they find it OK.  He has to re-post a long description.
8)  Discussion now branches into 3 different posts.
8)  He, of course, wants to remove the older version, but when he does
    so, 100% of the discussion that was attached, also gets removed.
    (Ugh.)
9)  More callers see caller #1s request (which doesn't have a file attached
    to it) will try/fail to UL duplicate prgs which are already online
    elsewhere.

All that would be required to change scenario #1 into
scenario #2 would be:
1)  An additional "allow-others-to-attach-a-file" flag.
2)  The "delete-own-UL" flag would also allow "replace-own-UL".

With the # of times I see files requested, this could be a priceless feature.
And with the # of times some prgs get updated, it would be even more valuable.

And it also aids authors that release newer versions of their prgs.
(How many people just do a v1.0 and NEVER update/replace/fix/change 
anything?)  They could now just replace v1.0 with v1.1.

--208--
A "NS" can't be done from the file or msg areas.
Since it's scanning for new files and new msgs, I'd think that's exactly
where it *would* be available from.  We have to specifically move OUT
of the msg base, OUT of the file base, to ever use NS.

This is 1 of the most powerful cmds C-net has.  Why limit its placement.
"Add power" then "take it away".

Is there anyway for *ME* to move cmds from their "main only" status
into "global cmds" (or between ANY 2 different types of menu sets)?

--209--
Any plans on allowing BBSMENU to also attach "\n" to a cmd?
"When the user just hits RETURN, the do this."
> 18; Vote
>    List, '           (Either [L] or [RETURN] works here.)
>    Add
>    Kill
>    Quit
>    Edit
>    Xamine
Do something useful when [RETURN] is hit, instead of just repeating
the prompt.  If at a subboard prompt, and the user hits RETURN, you
could list the current subboards available, or quit back to main menu,
or display a help screen.  Anything is better than just:
> Upload base
> List, Quit, subboard#, ?=Menu
> Upload base
> List, Quit, subboard#, ?=Menu
> Upload base
> List, Quit, subboard#, ?=Menu
> Upload base
> List, Quit, subboard#, ?=Menu

Instead of specifing "'" as the RETURN key, maybe Ken could also allow
a keystroke to be specified as its ascii-value hot-keyed.
> 18; Vote
>   List, 0x0a       (Either [L] or [RETURN] works here.)

> 5; Respond or Pass?
>    +, 0x35         (Either + or down-arrow reads next response)
>    -, 0x34         (Either - or up-arrow reads previous response)

--210--
Clicking on the line # portion of control panel doesn't select that node.
(The gadget doesn't extend all the way to the left.)

--211--
>Extract  :  If this is a file, list archive contents (ARC,ZOO,ZIP,LZH)
Shouldn't this be called EXAMINE instead of EXTRACT?
Files aren't really being 'extracted' from the archive.

--212--
Any plans on adding an "always transposed" flag to user's accts?
These users would always get their settings directly from whatever
the CURRENT group-settings are set to.   (Instead of their own copy of them.)

All future changes in group-settings would effect those users immediately.
No need to ever transpose them again.

I'd set 90% of my users with this flag ON.

Here's an interesting "VOTE" topic.
What % of your callers do/don't deviate from your default 0-23 access
group settings?

(I think you'd find a large # of sysops stating 90-100% do NOT deviate.
Thus showing a need for my "always transposed" flag.)

--213--
From the control panel, can I open BOTH a SysInfo and UserInfo window?
One seems to forbid the other.

--214--
Am I correct in assuming that all I need to do is:
 1)  Set the open-window-at-log-in flag for a user.
 2)  Log-in from remote under that acct.
Nothing happens here.

--215--

BBSMENU could be modify to allow hot-keyed choices.  Some of the
smaller menus (3-10) choices could easily be managed with single key-
stroke choices.  In addition to ,~|` any menu cmd followed by a % char
could be entered by the user without hitting RETURN.  It is so slick
to zip thru menus, submenus quickly with just 1 hot-key strokes.

--216--

If the control panel is "iconified and selected" can the same pull-down
menus be made available as if it was non-iconified?  Do all those handy
things w/o even opening a line or the control panel.

--217--
Any plans to have LOGBBS also control log-on/off log output?

I especially like to track/control idle-off, dropped carrier, OK log-
off, ran out of time this call, this day, sysop cut-off, etc

(Too many idle-outs, drops, out of times, might mean I better check
my setup.)

--218--
Ray,

You've probably done as much cnet utility coding as anyone, so
I'll ask you.   Can you list a few things that you can do with
#2 that you can't do with #1?
1)  DOS  pfile
2)  Cnet pfile

I thought you had access to just about everything, either way.
No?
#1 has 2 big advantages over #2.
  a)  Incredibly easy to test/debug right from CLI.
  b)  Fully usable online or off.

--219--
I'll take any/all info you want to throw my way.  Even any
incompleted-work-as-in-progress text would help greatly.  Heck, even
commenting the 100s of vars in cnet.h that I haven't a clue about.  Or
marking them as "no-longer in use", "not in use yet", etc.  I'll take
any/all source code available, too.

I don't want you or Ken to take this the wrong way, but don't you find
it odd that 2-3 *years* into C-net's developement, someone is 1st
saying, "Gee, maybe we should write some docs 'soon' incase someone
wants to write a pfile someday."  Things like this scare me to death.

Or "Maybe I should have commented the cnet.h file."  (Even if just
for Ken's own internal benefit.)

Why have the powerful stuff and not tell anyone how to use it?
Can you imagine the # of C-net pfiles/tools that would be available
today if programmers had full info on how to write them from day #1?

And writing things 'as-you-go' and 'updating as-they-change' avoids
the need to ever require someone to sit down and start writing from
scratch.  You'd probably already have a full 3rd disk of docs and source done.

For today:
From a DOS prg, I have a pointer to MainPort.  How do I get a pointer
to the NewSubboardType structure that the user on line x IS CURRENTLY
IN?  I can already get a pointer to just about everything, including
ALL NewSubboardType info.  But I need his CURRENTLY-IN subboard
pointer.
--220--

Can I get you to change the vde 'cursor' to "<" or something?
(For those of us w/2 color (or weird color) screens?)

--221--
When I EA an acct, toggling the auto-callback flag on/off also seems
to be effecting the auto-file-validate flag.

--222--
To ensure multi-line compatibility, all the transpose scripts (s:xarc...)
should be creating/using/deleting a UNIQUE temp work-dir.

>MakeDir "rad:{FN}.{$$}"
>CD      "rad:{FN}.{$$}"
>Delete  "rad:{FN}.{$$}" ALL

(As well as double quotes around ALL filenames/paths.)

--223--
Calling in from remote UA1 bit-editing shows:
>"SYSTEM OPERATOR     :    "

From local:
>"SYSTEM OPERATOR     : Yes"

Everything else is displayed fine.

(That's with JRComm v1.02a.)

--224--
The following executables are still in need of standard "$VER: vX.X" strings.
>close setpass big_numbers unlock

--225--
Big Clock?
Well, I guess something has to be displayed there.
The most flexible thing I could thing of would be to just display
a custom cnet:BBSidle text file, complete with any MCI var codes
you wanted.  Every sysop could have whatever he wanted there.


It would have to be updated every x secs while a caller is online.

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Bill Allen Beogelein, 313-473-2020, 1:2410/207, 14.4k, 2-lines
