From mcox Tue Nov  1 09:42:17 1994
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Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 08:24:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: distribution:; (see end of body)
Status: RO
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ailbox.syr.edu, tluode@freenet.hut.fi, tmursza@oak.grove.iup.edu, 
    tn93el@mail.soton.ac.uk, toreinar@oslonett.no, TPOPE@macc.wisc.edu, 
    TQFB@grove.iup.edu, turbin@prairienet.org, umkhawaj@ccu.umanitoba.ca, 
    veijalai@cc.lut.fi, w_cbe@sunny.ebs.de, whittakb@tomcat.acccss.af.mil, 
    XADAMEC@dinf.fsv.cvut.cz, XPQJBXA@grove.iup.edu, xracton@fullerton.edu, 
    xtc@eden.fipnet.fi, yakitori@access.digex.com, yount@bnr.ca, 
    ZAJICE3@JONAS.ZCU.CZ, zodiac@tartarus.uwa.edu.au
Subject: Send Messages to amos-request@access.digex.net
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Currently, Paul Reece is working on a way to take over the list temporarily.
Until it is up and running, please send all list messages to:

amos-request@access.digex.net

The message will be manually mailed out.  Sorry for the inconveinence.  I
hope to get the issue resovled soon.

Mike
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
             For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net

%%% overflow headers %%%
To: AMOS List <76703.4243@compuserve.com>, a00712@giant.rsoft.bc.ca,
        a24106@itesocci.gdl.iteso.mx, achurch@goober.mbhs.edu,
        acmurphy@comp.uark.edu, aglutz@helvetica.limmat.net.ch,
        aj639@cleveland.freenet.edu, Alex.Colic@f317.n244.z1.fidonet.org,
        alpha3@usl.edu, amb@deneb.csustan.edu, amc93el@willow.soton.ac.uk,
        amos-list@apana.org.au, AMOS@PLUMCS11.UMCS.LUBLIN.PL,
        andrewa@europa.com, angel@labein.es, as029@cleveland.freenet.edu,
        asims@unibase.Unibase.COM, Avatar@turing.demon.co.uk,
        bauer@helix.nih.gov, bcollin@mpi.nl, bdav@cnet577.cts.com,
        bjornko@ifi.uio.no, boo@troja.hl.siemens.de, breeman@nlr.nl,
        buonomo@cli.di.unipi.it, c.j.coulson@ncl.ac.uk,
        c9000261@tiger.vut.edu.au, cadj01@uqah.uquebec.ca,
        casca@lysator.liu.se, cb7388@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu, cbacon@qc.bell.ca,
        CCKIRK@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu, ceebdb@caledonia.hw.ac.uk,
        COHENS@SNYBUFVA.CS.SNYBUF.EDU, cokars@cuug.ab.ca,
        config@ultim.demon.co.uk, CRSO.Amos@canrem.com, cs91pps2@brunel.ac.uk,
        cs922044@red.ariel.cs.yorku.ca, D.Vissers@hi.ft.HSE.NL,
        d94djo@csd.uu.se, d94djo@efd.lth.se, DANNY@pembvax1.pembroke.edu,
        Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au, DAT255@utb.shv.hb.se,
        davidl@multib.yartou.oz.au, Denis.Barthou@prism.uvsq.fr,
        dlincoln@iac.net, dmh-a@minster.york.ac.uk, dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk,
        dreyfusj@issy.cnet.fr, dux@iesd.auc.dk, e92_tot@elixir.e.kth.se,
        e94mad@efd.lth.se, edwardw355@aol.com,
        eiriks%lightning@lightning.powertech.no, erick@efn.org,
        etxaedf@joe.ericsson.se, etxchjn@tn.etx.ericsson.se,
        expgxs@cascade.santos.com.au, f.vandijk@student.utwente.nl,
        g.t.stimson@dcs.hull.ac.uk, gcox@ctsnet.cts.com,
        gdowski@cis.ohio-state.edu, ggeorge@her.tei.gr,
        HALMARSON@sask.usask.ca, hmamiri@ouray.Denver.Colorado.EDU,
        howards@helios.usq.edu.au, hugor@staff.udg.mx,
        icqo410@indyunix.iupui.edu, J.A.Warner@open.ac.uk, J.VALKS@hsbos.nl,
        J.W.Godley@sheffield.ac.uk, j_larooy@piglet.otago.ac.nz,
        jhf@d0xs2.fnal.gov, jiberk@maroon.tc.umn.edu, jkthompson@ucsd.edu,
        jlubbers@fwi.uva.nl, jmiles@coventry.ac.uk, jnw2@aber.ac.uk,
        johndowell@BIX.com, jp_dejong@hgl.signaal.nl, jt48@diamond.bton.ac.uk,
        jwalley@eskimo.com, KISSEL@ADCALC.FNAL.GOV, koda@insane.apana.org.au,
        kurty@urfim.ucla.edu, kvenaas@entropy.phy.ilstu.edu,
        linna@mits.mdata.fi, M.A.KURA@tec-box.gun.de, M.Wood@cm.cf.ac.uk,
        ma2ljg@bath.ac.uk, markw@eskimo.com, martinp@visionware.co.uk,
        marty@cs.hope.edu, Mathieu.Dhondt@rug.ac.be,
        Matthew_Gorner.wgc-e@rx.xerox.com, maverick@deakin.edu.au,
        may_d@cc.dixie.edu, mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it,
        mentat@sefl.satelnet.org, metroid@dagobah.com, michaelh@edb.tih.no,
        Mike_Dufton@mindlink.bc.ca, moro@cix.compulink.co.uk,
        mpierce@hpvclo.vcd.hp.com, msaw1@mdw080.cc.monash.edu.au,
        muckleys@aston.ac.uk, mumi@mol.biol.ethz.ch, neil@triode.apana.org.au,
        newsgate.amos@kinni.acc.uwrf.edu, nigel@ipsys.co.uk, nwpd@pnw.net,
        odaman@pfu.fujitsu.co.jp, osborne@cleo.murdoch.edu.au,
        OTT@microlnk.ml.ee, P.Hazlewood@csc.liv.ac.uk,
        p6ip007@cicrp.jussieu.fr, pallo@stud.unit.no, paul@tquest.demon.co.uk,
        peter@brl2.med.nyu.edu, ph@doc.ic.ac.uk, pi92bn@pt.hk-r.se,
        PICEK@nb.vse.cz, pk@powertech.no, platt@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu,
        preece@slick.clare.tased.edu.au, PSION@delphi.com,
        pt94emu@thebe.pt.hk-r.se, RHARVEY@farradyne.com,
        rnms@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk, rob.van.schaik@grafix.wlink.nl,
        robert.reiswig@intellisoft.com,
        Robert_Marchetti@mockingbird.globalvillag.com,
        roshi@tiamat.umd.umich.edu, rpm@sys.uea.ac.uk, rscott@gate.net,
        runeh@lightning.powertech.no, s2137876@cse.unsw.edu.au,
        s921878@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU, samw@meteor.wisc.edu,
        saylor@tcet.unt.edu, se1dp@de-montfort.ac.uk, sfmcnally@BIX.com,
        Shinobi@ckbbs.tor.hookup.net, sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca,
        skosti@netcom.com, ssumorti@reading.ac.uk, stan@cc.bellcore.com,
        starman@lcafe.lakes.trenton.sc.us, steves@harston.cv.com,
        tcburnside@science.nnc.edu, tecnic@tlti.tokem.fi, tewright@m
%%% end overflow headers %%%

From mcox Tue Nov  1 08:59:08 1994
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Message-Id: <199411011237.AA08506@access3.digex.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 07:37:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: distribution:; (see end of body)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

.edu, 
    tn93el@mail.soton.ac.uk, toreinar@oslonett.no, TPOPE@macc.wisc.edu, 
    TQFB@grove.iup.edu, turbin@prairienet.org, umkhawaj@ccu.umanitoba.ca, 
    veijalai@cc.lut.fi, w_cbe@sunny.ebs.de, whittakb@tomcat.acccss.af.mil, 
    XADAMEC@dinf.fsv.cvut.cz, XPQJBXA@grove.iup.edu, xracton@fullerton.edu, 
    xtc@eden.fipnet.fi, yakitori@access.digex.com, yount@bnr.ca, 
    ZAJICE3@JONAS.ZCU.CZ, zodiac@tartarus.uwa.edu.au
Subject: Physics Extension
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941101073636.8357B-100000@access3.digex.net>
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(I had to forward this to the list in a different way, due to problems)

I suggested earilier that a physics extension would be a waste of time
because it's so simple, and I stand by my earlier opinions. To prove my
point, here are routines that will work with integers/fixed point (you
can figure out how to make them work with reals):

For inerita:
You need variables for position (eg XPOS, YPOS) and varaibles for
motion (XMOT, YMOT). Do this every cycle:

Add XPOS,XMOT : Add YPOS,YMOT

To accelerate,

Add XMOT,XACCEL : Add YMOT,YACCEL

For gravity,

Add YMOT,-GRAVITY

For air resistance,

XMOT=XMOT*(1.0-RESISTANCE#)
YMOT=YMOT*(1.0-RESISTANCE#)

If you want more just ask.

Spam-235 / John Williams / saylor@tcet.unt.edu

"But if there's no Silicon Hell, where do all the Macintoshes go?"
If you respond by email, please incude "JW" in the subject.

%%% overflow headers %%%
To: AMOS List <76703.4243@compuserve.com>, a00712@giant.rsoft.bc.ca,
        a24106@itesocci.gdl.iteso.mx, achurch@goober.mbhs.edu,
        acmurphy@comp.uark.edu, aglutz@helvetica.limmat.net.ch,
        aj639@cleveland.freenet.edu, Alex.Colic@f317.n244.z1.fidonet.org,
        alpha3@usl.edu, amb@deneb.csustan.edu, amc93el@willow.soton.ac.uk,
        amos-list@apana.org.au, AMOS@PLUMCS11.UMCS.LUBLIN.PL,
        andrewa@europa.com, angel@labein.es, as029@cleveland.freenet.edu,
        asims@unibase.Unibase.COM, Avatar@turing.demon.co.uk,
        bauer@helix.nih.gov, bcollin@mpi.nl, bdav@cnet577.cts.com,
        bjornko@ifi.uio.no, boo@troja.hl.siemens.de, breeman@nlr.nl,
        buonomo@cli.di.unipi.it, c.j.coulson@ncl.ac.uk,
        c9000261@tiger.vut.edu.au, cadj01@uqah.uquebec.ca,
        casca@lysator.liu.se, cb7388@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu, cbacon@qc.bell.ca,
        CCKIRK@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu, ceebdb@caledonia.hw.ac.uk,
        COHENS@SNYBUFVA.CS.SNYBUF.EDU, cokars@cuug.ab.ca,
        config@ultim.demon.co.uk, CRSO.Amos@canrem.com, cs91pps2@brunel.ac.uk,
        cs922044@red.ariel.cs.yorku.ca, D.Vissers@hi.ft.HSE.NL,
        d94djo@csd.uu.se, d94djo@efd.lth.se, DANNY@pembvax1.pembroke.edu,
        Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au, DAT255@utb.shv.hb.se,
        davidl@multib.yartou.oz.au, Denis.Barthou@prism.uvsq.fr,
        dlincoln@iac.net, dmh-a@minster.york.ac.uk, dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk,
        dreyfusj@issy.cnet.fr, dux@iesd.auc.dk, e92_tot@elixir.e.kth.se,
        e94mad@efd.lth.se, edwardw355@aol.com,
        eiriks%lightning@lightning.powertech.no, erick@efn.org,
        etxaedf@joe.ericsson.se, etxchjn@tn.etx.ericsson.se,
        expgxs@cascade.santos.com.au, f.vandijk@student.utwente.nl,
        g.t.stimson@dcs.hull.ac.uk, gcox@ctsnet.cts.com,
        gdowski@cis.ohio-state.edu, ggeorge@her.tei.gr,
        HALMARSON@sask.usask.ca, hmamiri@ouray.Denver.Colorado.EDU,
        howards@helios.usq.edu.au, hugor@staff.udg.mx,
        icqo410@indyunix.iupui.edu, J.A.Warner@open.ac.uk, J.VALKS@hsbos.nl,
        J.W.Godley@sheffield.ac.uk, j_larooy@piglet.otago.ac.nz,
        jhf@d0xs2.fnal.gov, jiberk@maroon.tc.umn.edu, jkthompson@ucsd.edu,
        jlubbers@fwi.uva.nl, jmiles@coventry.ac.uk, jnw2@aber.ac.uk,
        johndowell@BIX.com, jp_dejong@hgl.signaal.nl, jt48@diamond.bton.ac.uk,
        jwalley@eskimo.com, KISSEL@ADCALC.FNAL.GOV, koda@insane.apana.org.au,
        kurty@urfim.ucla.edu, kvenaas@entropy.phy.ilstu.edu,
        linna@mits.mdata.fi, M.A.KURA@tec-box.gun.de, M.Wood@cm.cf.ac.uk,
        markw@eskimo.com, martinp@visionware.co.uk, marty@cs.hope.edu,
        Mathieu.Dhondt@rug.ac.be, Matthew_Gorner.wgc-e@rx.xerox.com,
        maverick@deakin.edu.au, may_d@cc.dixie.edu,
        mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it, mentat@sefl.satelnet.org,
        metroid@dagobah.com, michaelh@edb.tih.no, Mike_Dufton@mindlink.bc.ca,
        moro@cix.compulink.co.uk, mpierce@hpvclo.vcd.hp.com,
        msaw1@mdw080.cc.monash.edu.au, muckleys@aston.ac.uk,
        mumi@mol.biol.ethz.ch, neil@triode.apana.org.au,
        newsgate.amos@kinni.acc.uwrf.edu, nigel@ipsys.co.uk,
        odaman@pfu.fujitsu.co.jp, osborne@cleo.murdoch.edu.au,
        OTT@microlnk.ml.ee, P.Hazlewood@csc.liv.ac.uk,
        p6ip007@cicrp.jussieu.fr, pallo@stud.unit.no, paul@tquest.demon.co.uk,
        peter@brl2.med.nyu.edu, ph@doc.ic.ac.uk, pi92bn@pt.hk-r.se,
        PICEK@nb.vse.cz, pk@powertech.no, platt@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu,
        preece@slick.clare.tased.edu.au, PSION@delphi.com,
        pt94emu@thebe.pt.hk-r.se, RHARVEY@farradyne.com,
        rnms@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk, rob.van.schaik@grafix.wlink.nl,
        robert.reiswig@intellisoft.com,
        Robert_Marchetti@mockingbird.globalvillag.com,
        roshi@tiamat.umd.umich.edu, rpm@sys.uea.ac.uk, rscott@gate.net,
        runeh@lightning.powertech.no, s2137876@cse.unsw.edu.au,
        s921878@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU, samw@meteor.wisc.edu,
        saylor@tcet.unt.edu, se1dp@de-montfort.ac.uk, sfmcnally@BIX.com,
        Shinobi@ckbbs.tor.hookup.net, sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca,
        skosti@netcom.com, ssumorti@reading.ac.uk, stan@cc.bellcore.com,
        starman@lcafe.lakes.trenton.sc.us, steves@harston.cv.com,
        tcburnside@science.nnc.edu, tewright@mailbox.syr.edu,
        tluode@freenet.hut.fi, tmursza@oak.grove.iup
%%% end overflow headers %%%

From mcox Tue Nov  1 11:41:59 1994
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Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 10:32:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: AMOS List 1 <76703.4243@compuserve.com>, a00712@giant.rsoft.bc.ca,
        a24106@itesocci.gdl.iteso.mx, achurch@goober.mbhs.edu,
        acmurphy@comp.uark.edu, aglutz@helvetica.limmat.net.ch,
        aj639@cleveland.freenet.edu, Alex.Colic@f317.n244.z1.fidonet.org,
        alpha3@usl.edu, amb@deneb.csustan.edu, amc93el@willow.soton.ac.uk,
        amos-list@apana.org.au, AMOS@PLUMCS11.UMCS.LUBLIN.PL,
        andrewa@europa.com, angel@labein.es, as029@cleveland.freenet.edu,
        asims@unibase.Unibase.COM, Avatar@turing.demon.co.uk,
        bauer@helix.nih.gov, bcollin@mpi.nl, bdav@cnet577.cts.com,
        bjornko@ifi.uio.no, boo@troja.hl.siemens.de, breeman@nlr.nl,
        buonomo@cli.di.unipi.it, c.j.coulson@ncl.ac.uk,
        c9000261@tiger.vut.edu.au, cadj01@uqah.uquebec.ca,
        casca@lysator.liu.se, cb7388@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu, cbacon@qc.bell.ca,
        CCKIRK@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu, ceebdb@caledonia.hw.ac.uk,
        COHENS@SNYBUFVA.CS.SNYBUF.EDU, AMOS List 2 <cokars@cuug.ab.ca>,
        config@ultim.demon.co.uk, CRSO.Amos@canrem.com, cs91pps2@brunel.ac.uk,
        cs922044@red.ariel.cs.yorku.ca, D.Vissers@hi.ft.HSE.NL,
        d94djo@csd.uu.se, d94djo@efd.lth.se, Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au,
        DAT255@utb.shv.hb.se, davidl@multib.yartou.oz.au,
        Denis.Barthou@prism.uvsq.fr, dlincoln@iac.net,
        dmh-a@minster.york.ac.uk, dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk,
        dreyfusj@issy.cnet.fr, dux@iesd.auc.dk, e92_tot@elixir.e.kth.se,
        e94mad@efd.lth.se, edwardw355@aol.com,
        eiriks%lightning@lightning.powertech.no, erick@efn.org,
        etxaedf@joe.ericsson.se, etxchjn@tn.etx.ericsson.se,
        expgxs@cascade.santos.com.au, f.vandijk@student.utwente.nl,
        g.t.stimson@dcs.hull.ac.uk, gcox@ctsnet.cts.com,
        gdowski@cis.ohio-state.edu, ggeorge@her.tei.gr,
        HALMARSON@sask.usask.ca, hmamiri@ouray.Denver.Colorado.EDU,
        howards@helios.usq.edu.au, hugor@staff.udg.mx
Cc: AMOS List 3 <icqo410@indyunix.iupui.edu>, J.A.Warner@open.ac.uk,
        J.VALKS@hsbos.nl, J.W.Godley@sheffield.ac.uk,
        j_larooy@piglet.otago.ac.nz, jhf@d0xs2.fnal.gov,
        jiberk@maroon.tc.umn.edu, jkthompson@ucsd.edu, jlubbers@fwi.uva.nl,
        jmiles@coventry.ac.uk, jnw2@aber.ac.uk, johndowell@BIX.com,
        jp_dejong@hgl.signaal.nl, jt48@diamond.bton.ac.uk, jwalley@eskimo.com,
        KISSEL@ADCALC.FNAL.GOV, koda@insane.apana.org.au, kurty@urfim.ucla.edu,
        kvenaas@entropy.phy.ilstu.edu, linna@mits.mdata.fi,
        M.A.KURA@tec-box.gun.de, M.Wood@cm.cf.ac.uk, markw@eskimo.com,
        martinp@visionware.co.uk, marty@cs.hope.edu, Mathieu.Dhondt@rug.ac.be,
        Matthew_Gorner.wgc-e@rx.xerox.com, maverick@deakin.edu.au,
        may_d@cc.dixie.edu, mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it,
        mentat@sefl.satelnet.org, metroid@dagobah.com, michaelh@edb.tih.no,
        Mike_Dufton@mindlink.bc.ca, AMOS List 4 <moro@cix.compulink.co.uk>,
        mpierce@hpvclo.vcd.hp.com, msaw1@mdw080.cc.monash.edu.au,
        muckleys@aston.ac.uk, mumi@mol.biol.ethz.ch, mystic%tlti@tlti.tokem.fi,
        neil@triode.apana.org.au, newsgate.amos@kinni.acc.uwrf.edu,
        nigel@ipsys.co.uk, odaman@pfu.fujitsu.co.jp,
        osborne@cleo.murdoch.edu.au, OTT@microlnk.ml.ee,
        P.Hazlewood@csc.liv.ac.uk, p6ip007@cicrp.jussieu.fr,
        pallo@stud.unit.no, paul@tquest.demon.co.uk, peter@brl2.med.nyu.edu,
        ph@doc.ic.ac.uk, pi92bn@pt.hk-r.se, PICEK@nb.vse.cz, pk@powertech.no,
        platt@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu, preece@slick.clare.tased.edu.au,
        PSION@delphi.com, pt94emu@thebe.pt.hk-r.se, RHARVEY@farradyne.com,
        rnms@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk, rob.van.schaik@grafix.wlink.nl,
        robert.reiswig@intellisoft.com,
        Robert_Marchetti@mockingbird.globalvillag.com,
        roshi@tiamat.umd.umich.edu, rpm@sys.uea.ac.uk, rscott@gate.net,
        runeh@lightning.powertech.no, AMOS List 5 <s2137876@cse.unsw.edu.au>,
        s921878@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU, samw@meteor.wisc.edu,
        saylor@tcet.unt.edu, se1dp@de-montfort.ac.uk, sfmcnally@BIX.com,
        Shinobi@ckbbs.tor.hookup.net, sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca,
        skosti@netcom.com, ssumorti@reading.ac.uk, stan@cc.bellcore.com,
        starman@lcafe.lakes.trenton.sc.us, steves@harston.cv.com,
        tcburnside@science.nnc.edu, tewright@mailbox.syr.edu,
        tluode@freenet.hut.fi, tmursza@oak.grove.iup.edu,
        tn93el@willow.soton.ac.uk, toreinar@oslonett.no, TPOPE@macc.wisc.edu,
        TQFB@grove.iup.edu, turbin@prairienet.org,
        umkhawaj@antares.cc.umanitoba.ca, veijalai@cc.lut.fi,
        w_cbe@sunny.ebs.de, whittakb@tomcat.acccss.af.mil,
        XADAMEC@dinf.fsv.cvut.cz, XPQJBXA@grove.iup.edu, xracton@fullerton.edu,
        xtc@eden.fipnet.fi, yakitori@access.digex.com, yount@bnr.ca,
        ZAJICE3@JONAS.ZCU.CZ, zodiac@tartarus.uwa.edu.au
Subject: Just a test
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941101103118.2300A-100000@access1.digex.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: RO
X-Status: 

I hate to waste bandwidth like this, but I am testing the manual operation of
sending to the list.  Please bear with me.  If you have not received an early
message about Paul Reece, please email me.

Mike
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
             For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net

From owner-amos-list@elysium.clare.tased.edu.au Tue Nov  1 20:38:09 1994
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Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 12:34:15 +1100 (DST)
From: Paul Reece <preece@clare.tased.edu.au>
X-Sender: preece@slick
To: Temporary Amos List <amos-list@elysium.clare.tased.edu.au>
Subject: AMOSLIST: Temporary host for address..
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Ok.  the temporary address for the list is amos-list@info.clare.tased.edu.au

Some notes:

1. Un/Subscribes can be sent to amos-request@info.clare.tased.edu.au
   or
   Majordomo@info.clare.tased.edu.au
   or
   Mike, who can do it from his end still. (or me if you must)

2. There is a limit of 20k size to mail messages.. Any complaints, email me.

3. ANY email sent to the list with "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" in it will
   NOT be sent to the list, but instead will cause to you be unsubscribed
   (or vice versa).

This service is being provided by Claremont College, which is on the end
of 2 64kbit links and then a 256kbit link just to get to mainland Australia!!

(so, PLEASE mail wisely!!)

Any problems, you know the address..

oh, and if you want the AMOS intro page..

Email:  majordomo@info.clare.tased.edu.au

with (in the body of the message)

info amos-list



 - Paul

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Reece - Student & Network Assistant.
Claremont College - Tasmania, Australia.

Email:    preece@clare.tased.edu.au, ds041@cleveland.freenet.edu
Finger:   preece@ftp.clare.tased.edu.au, preece@anfi.tas.gov.au
WWW:      http://www.clare.tased.edu.au/~preece/
Tasnet:   CC_REECE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For PGP Public Key, please finger preece@info.clare.tased.edu.au


From mcox Wed Nov  2 07:58:51 1994
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Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 07:22:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: AMOS List 1 <76703.4243@compuserve.com>, a00712@giant.rsoft.bc.ca,
        a24106@itesocci.gdl.iteso.mx, achurch@goober.mbhs.edu,
        acmurphy@comp.uark.edu, aglutz@helvetica.limmat.net.ch,
        aj639@cleveland.freenet.edu, Alex.Colic@f317.n244.z1.fidonet.org,
        alpha3@usl.edu, amb@deneb.csustan.edu, amc93el@willow.soton.ac.uk,
        amos-list@apana.org.au, AMOS@PLUMCS11.UMCS.LUBLIN.PL,
        andrewa@europa.com, angel@labein.es, as029@cleveland.freenet.edu,
        asims@unibase.Unibase.COM, Avatar@turing.demon.co.uk,
        bauer@helix.nih.gov, bcollin@mpi.nl, bdav@cnet577.cts.com,
        bjornko@ifi.uio.no, boo@troja.hl.siemens.de, breeman@nlr.nl,
        buonomo@cli.di.unipi.it, c.j.coulson@ncl.ac.uk,
        c9000261@tiger.vut.edu.au, cadj01@uqah.uquebec.ca,
        casca@lysator.liu.se, cb7388@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu, cbacon@qc.bell.ca,
        CCKIRK@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu, ceebdb@caledonia.hw.ac.uk,
        COHENS@SNYBUFVA.CS.SNYBUF.EDU
Cc: AMOS List 2 <cokars@cuug.ab.ca>, config@ultim.demon.co.uk,
        CRSO.Amos@canrem.com, cs91pps2@brunel.ac.uk,
        cs922044@red.ariel.cs.yorku.ca, D.Vissers@hi.ft.HSE.NL,
        d94djo@csd.uu.se, d94djo@efd.lth.se, Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au,
        DAT255@utb.shv.hb.se, davidl@multib.yartou.oz.au,
        Denis.Barthou@prism.uvsq.fr, dlincoln@iac.net,
        dmh-a@minster.york.ac.uk, dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk,
        dreyfusj@issy.cnet.fr, dux@iesd.auc.dk, e92_tot@elixir.e.kth.se,
        e94mad@efd.lth.se, edwardw355@aol.com,
        eiriks%lightning@lightning.powertech.no, erick@efn.org,
        etxaedf@joe.ericsson.se, etxchjn@tn.etx.ericsson.se,
        expgxs@cascade.santos.com.au, f.vandijk@student.utwente.nl,
        g.t.stimson@dcs.hull.ac.uk, gcox@ctsnet.cts.com,
        gdowski@cis.ohio-state.edu, ggeorge@her.tei.gr,
        HALMARSON@sask.usask.ca, hmamiri@ouray.Denver.Colorado.EDU,
        howards@helios.usq.edu.au, hugor@staff.udg.mx,
        AMOS List 3 <icqo410@indyunix.iupui.edu>, J.A.Warner@open.ac.uk,
        J.VALKS@hsbos.nl, J.W.Godley@sheffield.ac.uk,
        j_larooy@piglet.otago.ac.nz, jhf@d0xs2.fnal.gov,
        jiberk@maroon.tc.umn.edu, jkthompson@ucsd.edu, jlubbers@fwi.uva.nl,
        jmiles@coventry.ac.uk, jnw2@aber.ac.uk, johndowell@BIX.com,
        jp_dejong@hgl.signaal.nl, jt48@diamond.bton.ac.uk, jwalley@eskimo.com,
        KISSEL@ADCALC.FNAL.GOV, koda@insane.apana.org.au, kurty@urfim.ucla.edu,
        kvenaas@entropy.phy.ilstu.edu, linna@mits.mdata.fi,
        M.A.KURA@tec-box.gun.de, M.Wood@cm.cf.ac.uk, markw@eskimo.com,
        martinp@visionware.co.uk, marty@cs.hope.edu, Mathieu.Dhondt@rug.ac.be,
        Matthew_Gorner.wgc-e@rx.xerox.com, maverick@deakin.edu.au,
        may_d@cc.dixie.edu, mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it,
        mentat@sefl.satelnet.org, metroid@dagobah.com, michaelh@edb.tih.no,
        Mike_Dufton@mindlink.bc.ca, AMOS List 4 <moro@cix.compulink.co.uk>,
        mpierce@hpvclo.vcd.hp.com, msaw1@mdw080.cc.monash.edu.au,
        muckleys@aston.ac.uk, mumi@mol.biol.ethz.ch, mystic%tlti@tlti.tokem.fi,
        neil@triode.apana.org.au, newsgate.amos@kinni.acc.uwrf.edu,
        nigel@ipsys.co.uk, odaman@pfu.fujitsu.co.jp,
        osborne@cleo.murdoch.edu.au, OTT@microlnk.ml.ee,
        P.Hazlewood@csc.liv.ac.uk, p6ip007@cicrp.jussieu.fr,
        pallo@stud.unit.no, paul@tquest.demon.co.uk, peter@brl2.med.nyu.edu,
        ph@doc.ic.ac.uk, pi92bn@pt.hk-r.se, PICEK@nb.vse.cz, pk@powertech.no,
        platt@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu, preece@slick.clare.tased.edu.au,
        PSION@delphi.com, pt94emu@thebe.pt.hk-r.se, RHARVEY@farradyne.com,
        rnms@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk, rob.van.schaik@grafix.wlink.nl,
        robert.reiswig@intellisoft.com,
        Robert_Marchetti@mockingbird.globalvillag.com,
        roshi@tiamat.umd.umich.edu, rpm@sys.uea.ac.uk, rscott@gate.net,
        runeh@lightning.powertech.no, AMOS List 5 <s2137876@cse.unsw.edu.au>,
        s921878@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU, samw@meteor.wisc.edu,
        saylor@tcet.unt.edu, se1dp@de-montfort.ac.uk, sfmcnally@BIX.com,
        Shinobi@ckbbs.tor.hookup.net, sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca,
        skosti@netcom.com, ssumorti@reading.ac.uk, stan@cc.bellcore.com,
        starman@lcafe.lakes.trenton.sc.us, steves@harston.cv.com,
        tcburnside@science.nnc.edu, tewright@mailbox.syr.edu,
        tluode@freenet.hut.fi, tmursza@oak.grove.iup.edu,
        tn93el@willow.soton.ac.uk, toreinar@oslonett.no, TPOPE@macc.wisc.edu,
        TQFB@grove.iup.edu, turbin@prairienet.org,
        umkhawaj@pollux.cc.umanitoba.ca, veijalai@cc.lut.fi,
        w_cbe@sunny.ebs.de, whittakb@tomcat.acccss.af.mil,
        XADAMEC@dinf.fsv.cvut.cz, XPQJBXA@grove.iup.edu, xracton@fullerton.edu,
        xtc@eden.fipnet.fi, yakitori@access.digex.net, yount@bnr.ca,
        ZAJICE3@JONAS.ZCU.CZ, zodiac@tartarus.uwa.edu.au
Subject: Returned mail: Bad usage (fwd)
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941102072116.25799B-100000@access1.digex.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
X-Status: 

(If you want to only reply to the author, send it to: 
Avatar@turing.demon.co.uk)  (To send to the list, send to:
amos-request@access.digex.net)

You could try this little program:

 Double Buffer
 Autoback 0

 X=1600
 Y=1280
 DX#=0
 DY#=0

 Repeat
   Cls
   Draw X/10,Y/10 To (X+DX#),(Y+DY#)/10
   Screen Swap
   X=X+DX#
   Y=Y+DY#
   If Jleft(1) Then DX#=DX#-1
   If Jright(1) Then DX#=DX#+1
   If Jup(1) Then DY#=DY#-5
   If Jdown Then DY#=DY#+5
   If (Y>1700) or (Y<0) Then Y=Y-DY# : DY#=-DY#
   If (X<0) or (X>3200) Then X=X-DX# : DX#=-DX#
   DY#=DY#+1
   DX#=DX#*0.9699997
   DY#=DY#*0.9699997
 Until Fire(1)

--
Dominic Ludlam

From owner-amos-list@elysium.clare.tased.edu.au Wed Nov  2 10:22:40 1994
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Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 10:20:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: amos-list@elysium.clare.tased.edu.au
Subject: AMOSLIST: AMOS List October 1994
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941102101910.7236A-100000@access3.digex.net>
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Status: RO
X-Status: 

I have uploaded AMOSList-1094.lzh to Aminet and it is under dev/amos as are
all the other archives of the list.

Thanks to Paul for getting the list setup here temporarily.  I am sorry for
the problems.  I hope to have it all resolved soon.

Remember, the new AMOS Mailing List address is:
amos-list@info.clare.tased.edu.au

Mike
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
             For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net


From mef4@aber.ac.uk Wed Nov  2 11:16:39 1994
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          Wed, 2 Nov 1994 16:15:54 +0000
To: Dolfan in VA <mcox@access.digex.net>
Subject: LoS
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 1994 16:15:28 +0000
Message-Id: <965.783792928@osfb.aber.ac.uk>
From: mef4 <mef4@aber.ac.uk>
Status: RO
X-Status: 


>Can you explain your LOS method to me?  I only saw the last few comments
>and did not see your original message.

Are you the original poster on this one?
If so, I presume you've already had lots of examples on how to draw lines
of squares across arrays, which is the main thing that needs doing.

What I'm suggesting is that as well as checking each square for blocking
objects, a LoS function should check wether the cursor that is moving
along the line just moved straight from one square to an adjacent one,
or wether it moved to a diagonally connected square, and if it did, it
should check the two squares it moved diagonally between as well.
This sophisticates the LoS system a little and empowers it to allow shots
to scrape past the corner of a building, for example, while not allowing
them to sneak through the 'gap' in a diagonal wall, both really annoying
to the player if they aren't handled properly.

To draw the actual line, avoiding all Sin, Cos, Tan, Sqrt, etc.. (Slow stuff)
I get the X distance and Y distance between target and firer, and divide
each by whichever of these distances is the longest, to get dX and dY, which
are real numbers.

(IE Target 20,15 Firer 5,5 X=15 Y=10 So dX=15/15=1.0 and dY=10/15=0.66666..)

Now, I position the LoS cursor X,Y (A virtual cursor, composed only of co-ords)
on the firer's square, and have a couple more real variables for moving the
cursor, Xm and Ym. You add dX to Xm and dY to Ym, and if, for example, Xm>=1
after this, take 1 from Xm, and add one to X. Continue until you get to the
target square. (Or miss and wander off the map. It shouldn't, but..)

Obviously, you check the new X,Y for blocks each time, and my additional
suggestion is that you also check the diagonal squares if necessary.
(It was a diagonal move if more than one co-ordinate changed, and the postions
of the diagonal squares the cursor moved between are X,Y-dY and X-dX,Y)

O=- .-  -. -=O                                        mef4@aber.ac.uk
H  /(    )\  H ---[ SIG - Ignore here.. ]----------------------------
| |  -^^-  | | Marc Forrester, wandering student, Kitten lover
   \_ `' _/    The views expressed above were planted.
|    \  )    | I have no knowledge whatsoever of views. Go away.
H     )/     H Where I lack reason, I have faith. - Someone Religious
O=-  ('    -=O Good grief! That's a bit shite!! - Faeriena, DiscWorld
      `

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov  2 18:26:36 1994
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 (for amos-list@access.digex.com)
From: Kimmo Veijalainen <Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi>
Message-Id: <199411022227.AAA03636@liero.cc.lut.fi>
Subject: AmosPro compiler...
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 00:27:25 +0200 (EET)
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Hi! Again I'm in trouble... sigh.
1) I noticed that sometimes AmosPro corrupted the source I was editing
   when the buffer size was set to 256K. I have now used text buffer size
   of 192 for 2 days and the problem seemed to disappear...
2) The compiler does not work at all... I'm making an "artillery" clone.
   It works fine under the editor, but a) crashes b) floating point calcs 
   return different values than when not compiled c) A check
   "If DISABLED(Z)=False and HIT(Z)=True" returns false even when it
   should return true... :-( --> explosions never show up.

Any ideas? I have added the "A#=0.0" in the beginning of the program
so that the compiler SHOULD compile the float calcs correctly...

Odd - Amos1.3 seemed more stable than AmosPro 2.0.

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov  3 00:19:40 1994
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Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 21:07:48 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: Kimmo Veijalainen <Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AmosPro compiler...
In-Reply-To: <199411022227.AAA03636@liero.cc.lut.fi>
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I agree that the AmosPro compiler is full of unbelieveable errors.

I also have problems using floating point variables with the compiler.  
Instead, I use integers and multiply/divide by 100 for .01 accuracy.  
Faster maybe but always silly.

I have programmed a game that compiles with the math library 
correctly only sometimes!  One time it will, next time it wont, completely 
random and unpredictable.  Now I have it abort when Sqr(4)<>2 so I know 
that it compiled okay...

I really wish AMOS could take a COMPLETE overhaul.  Oh well

Dave May

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov  3 05:47:53 1994
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From: Derek Piper <se1dp@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199411030955.AA185016521@boreas.cms.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: AmosPro compiler...
To: Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi (Kimmo Veijalainen)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 1994 9:55:20 GMT
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <199411022227.AAA03636@liero.cc.lut.fi>; from "Kimmo Veijalainen" at Nov 3, 94 12:27 (midnight)
X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14]
Status: RO
X-Status: 


        Hi Kimmo,

                Have you tried setting the double precision mode in AMOS. I can`t
remember the command off the top of my head but you may find that the compiler
works. Your program will possibly be slower but I wouldn`t think that it matters
too much. As for the logic statement problem I don`t know why. Are the variables
made global ? That's always a first error I make.

        See ya.

                                Del.

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                                |        __                             |
|      Derek Piper               |       ///   Contact me for anything   |
|                                |  __  ///    about Amigas.             |
|   E-Mail: se1dp@dmu.ac.uk      |  \\\///                               |
|                                |   \\\/      I have A1200,120MB HD,    |
|   Software Engineering Year 1  |             6MB Ram,20Mhz 68881       |
|   DeMontfort University, Leic  |                                       |
+--------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget;   |
| the wise forgive but do not forget.                                    |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov  3 09:09:11 1994
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From: Kimmo Veijalainen <Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi>
Message-Id: <199411031303.PAA03091@liero.cc.lut.fi>
Subject: Re: AmosPro compiler...
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 15:03:26 +0200 (EET)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
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Status: RO
X-Status: 

Forwarded message:

>                 Have you tried setting the double precision mode in AMOS. I can`t
> remember the command off the top of my head but you may find that the compiler
> works. Your program will possibly be slower but I wouldn`t think that it matters
> too much. As for the logic statement problem I don`t know why. Are the variables
> made global ? That's always a first error I make.

No... but i spent last night converting the program. Now it ONLY uses 
integers. Sin/cos values are precalculated scaled integers etc...
Problems --> the program just hangs sometimes, the source is corrupted in 
the editor (about 80K of program), and I get "overflow error":s all the 
time when I do divisions like "ADD YL(Z),something/8"... Very odd.
Are there some amos-specific limitations when doing 
divisions/multiplications? Ie: must the numbers be in 2byte range (-32K 
to 32K) or something? There should be no reason for the program crashing, 
as the largest integers I handle have the value of about 1500000...
(I scale the x/y coordinates and x/y speeds of bullets/wind/gravity by 
256).

This is hell.

From owner-amos-list@elysium.clare.tased.edu.au Thu Nov  3 12:38:03 1994
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Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 12:24:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Cc: AMOS Temporary List <amos-list@elysium.clare.tased.edu.au>
Subject: AMOSLIST: List back up?
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941103122210.29279A-100000@access4.digex.net>
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Precedence: bulk
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Well, it seems that the list is fixed.  Please use the old address:

amos-list@access.digex.net

I hope Paul will keep the temporary one setup just in case this one goes
down.

I will also send this message to the temporary one in case people have
subscribed through there and not here.  So, if you get TWO copies of this
message you are on both lists.  If you only get ONE, see which address it
came from (access or info) and email me.

Thanks!

Michael
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
             For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov  3 13:52:27 1994
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Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 12:24:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Cc: AMOS Temporary List <amos-list@elysium.clare.tased.edu.au>
Subject: List back up?
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941103122210.29279A-100000@access4.digex.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Well, it seems that the list is fixed.  Please use the old address:

amos-list@access.digex.net

I hope Paul will keep the temporary one setup just in case this one goes
down.

I will also send this message to the temporary one in case people have
subscribed through there and not here.  So, if you get TWO copies of this
message you are on both lists.  If you only get ONE, see which address it
came from (access or info) and email me.

Thanks!

Michael
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
             For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov  3 14:26:22 1994
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Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 12:55:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: New Files on AmiNet
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941103125047.571A-100000@access4.digex.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Status: 

I am going to try to post a list of the new files each month.  Please read
the FAQ for the complete list of files on AmiNet.  If you know of a file
that is not in the list, please email me and tell me the filename so that I
can get the information.

	If you want the AMOS FAQ sent to you, please email me and I will
add you to the AMOS FAQ list.  Please let me know if you are on the list
(or think that you are) so I can check it.

	I am compiling a description of the extensions listed in the FAQ so
if anyone has a new extension or a description they want to put in there,
just send it to me.

Thanks!

Michael
-------------------------------NEW FILES--------------------------------
Amastermind.lha      game/think 124K+Mastermind type game written in AMOS. V1.1
AMOS-PD-CD.txt       docs/rview   5K REVIEW: AMOS PD CD
AMOSList-0994.lzh    dev/amos   132K+Messages about AMOS during September 1994
AMOSList-1094.lzh    dev/amos   160K+Messages about AMOS during October 1994
amosutil.lha         dev/amos     2K+Small AMOS tools
Am_Mui10.lha         dev/amos    65K+Use MUI from AMOSPro
bootcontroller10.lha disk/misc   63K+   Password protection for hard dis
chaneques_1.lha      game/think 416K+Great puzzle game,good gfx,Disk 1/2,Amos
chaneques_2.lha      game/think 397K+Great puzzle game,good gfx,Disk 2,Amos
codefinder.lha       game/think  90K+   Mastermind type game
gridloc.lha          misc/sci    48K+(AMOS) Amateur Radio grid square calc
interface-design.lha dev/amos    46K+User-interface-designer for amospro. v1.0
mapcreator.lha       dev/amos     7K+Generates 2D overhead view terrain maps
mimic.lha            game/misc  101K+   Simon type game for workbench
Othello.lha          dev/amos     3K+A conversion of the board game OTHELLO   

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov  3 15:28:45 1994
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From: Derek Piper <se1dp@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199411031556.AA207218201@oak.cms.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: AmosPro compiler...
To: Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi (Kimmo Veijalainen)
Date: Thu, 03 Nov 1994 15:56:40 GMT
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <199411022227.AAA03636@liero.cc.lut.fi>; from "Kimmo Veijalainen" at Nov 3, 94 12:27 (midnight)
X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14]
Status: RO
X-Status: 


        Hi Kimmo,

                AMOS does do some strange things when doing maths in normal
mode (ie not standard FP or IEEE FP). I always use floating point because AMOS
rounds values by just lopping off the decimal so to round 9.9 AMOS would come
back with just 9. Awful. I hope you still have your FP version lying around.
How can you hope to do sin and cos functions without floating point on ? AMOS
will only ever output 0 (unless it's 1) for a trig function. Try DOUBLEPRECISION
at the start of the program.

        See ya.

                                Del.

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                                |        __                             |
|      Derek Piper               |       ///   Contact me for anything   |
|                                |  __  ///    about Amigas.             |
|   E-Mail: se1dp@dmu.ac.uk      |  \\\///                               |
|                                |   \\\/      I have A1200,120MB HD,    |
|   Software Engineering Year 1  |             6MB Ram,20Mhz 68881       |
|   DeMontfort University, Leic  |                                       |
+--------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget;   |
| the wise forgive but do not forget.                                    |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov  3 16:06:12 1994
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From: Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au (Darryl Lewis)
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Inertia tutorial
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In response to the amount of mail I received after my offer of telling
people 

about simulating interia, I 'll write this tutorial. 

INERTIA & GRAVITY ALGRORITHMS

I'll start off from the basics and work from there so that people can

follow the logic rather than just give you a final program with the

equations wrapped up inside it (if you can't wait, it's at the end of this

text). You can follw the steps involved, see how each equation is figured

out, and perhaps come up with a few of your own or improve on mine. If you

do let me know!

It is assumed that you will use the double buffer command and know how to

make bobs flicker free. It's in the manual.



All the algrothms come from the basic equations for straight line motion.

eq1    v=u+at

eq2    s=ut+0.5att

eq3    vv=uu+2as

where u=starting velocity (may be 0 if object at rest,ie not moving)

      v=velocity

      s=distance

      a=acceleration

      uu and vv are u squared and v squared respectively

these equations can be used to calculate all velocity problems.

We use the term velocity, not speed, as velocity has a direction. In our

case we shall use the horizontal (x) and the vertical (y) for all our

velocities, and let the screen graphics do the rest. If you need to write a

numerical version to get accurate values, you can do that, but you'll have

to have a few trigometric equations in there. Since this is mainly intended

for graphic games I won't include these, as they might confuse some people.



Go into the object editor and create and object. It can be a ball, a

square, a blob, anything. Save it to the bank as bob number 1 Then exit and

 save it to the previous program.

If you have an object in space there is no forces acting on it. It will not

move.

-----------

x=100:y=100

bob 1,x,y,1

-----------

not very exciting is it?

OK, now lets give the bob a velocity. We'll only deal with the horizontal

(x) direction to start with.

------------

y=100

for x=0 to screen width

bob1,x,y,1

next x

------------

The bob should move at a stedy rate across the screen. This is what would

happen if it was pushed, released and had nothing to slow it down, such as

friction.

Now lets make our bob capable of acceleration. This is like a space ship

under a constant thrust, or a car under constant acceleration. This uses a

form of equation 1 at the top of the document, ie v=u+at.

It is the nature of programs that they run in loops, each loop taking a

certain time. This is t in the equation. As this equation uses SI units,

all units are seconds, metres, and metres/second.

------------

y=100

acceleration=1:rem increase or decrease this for different accelerations.

repeat

        velocity=velocity+acceleration

        x=x+velocity

        bob 1,x,y,1

until x>screen width

-------------

The bob should now start off slow and by the time it dissapears it will be

moving at quite a rate. Increase the screen width to 640 if you can't see

it for long enough.

The velocity is constantly changing, and it will not be a straight line if

graphed, but it will be a 'logrithmic' (well not a true log, but it

will do for our description and it sure looks like it) curve.

This is the basis for our inertia effects.

As mentioned before, this equation uses SI units of metres and seconds. Now

if you want to be super accurate, you can figure out how many pixels there

are to a metre on your screen. You can change the timing loop to find out

how long the loop took ie,



main loop

timer=0

your prgram

seconds=timer/50

goto main loop



This could be reduced to fractions of a second and fractions of a metre per

loop. If any one figures all this out and writes a decent program thats

accurate to the real world, please send it to me.

I could never be bothered, so I just use approximates. If it looks OK on

the screen GREAT, if not, juggle the numbers until the damn thing is

playable!



Back to the programing,

Lets now slow the bob down from a velocity. This simulates it's

braking / resistance to friction /reverse thrust or anything else you can

think of. We'll statr it moving at 10 pixels / loop to start with. To begin

slowing the object, press the fire button.

---------

y=100

velocity=10

acceleration=-1:rem the negative will slow the bob like a brake

repeat

        if fire(1) then velocity=velocity+acceleration

        x=x+velocity

        bob 1,x,y,1

until (x>screen width) or (velocity=0)

----------



Lets recap, we can accelerate the object by making the acceleration a

positive number, and decelerate it be making it negative. If you now remove

the "or (velocity =0)" the bob will slow down, stop and reverse direction.

So what we have is a positive acceleration is to the right of the screen

and a negative acceleration is to the left of the screen.



Lets now make the bob have some inertia. This simulates the weight of the

object and it's resistance to change.

----------

y=100

velocity=0

acceleration=0:rem the negative will slow the bob like a brake

do

        if jright(1) then acceleration=1

        if jleft(1) then acceleration=-1

        else acceleration=0

        velocity=velocity+acceleration

        x=x+velocity

        bob 1,x,y,1

        if x>screen width then x=0:rem loop the object back to the screen

        if x<0 then x=screen width

        if velocity >20 then velocity=20 :rem set the maximum velocity of

        if velocity <20 then velocity=-20 :rem the object.

loop

----------

Use your joystick to control it's movement. You can animate the bob by

changing it's bob number. See the manual for more details or the tutorials

on animating sprites and bobs. Use the figure of the man from dithells

wonderland and alter the above code to control him and animate his

different frames. For each loop increase a counter using the add

frame,1,1to maximum frame. When his velocity goes negative, reverse the

bob. I left this for you to do yourself, so you are forced to learn

somthing rather than just reading and mindlessly coping the code!!!:-) Na

Na! If you have trouble post a message to the list or perhaps somone else

will upload a working example for all to see?

 Phew! I'm sick of typing. I'd rather be playing doom, but since it's not

 released on the Amiga, and when it is it probably won't work on a 1.3

 A2000, I suppose I'd better continue....



You can see that the inertia effect works OK. Play around with the values

until it looks right for your game or figure it out using the metres and

seconds and the amoun per second moved. Me, I'd play with the values, cause

I'm lazy.



Vertical movement.

This is handled the same way as is horizontal movement. First we'll deal

with the effects in space, away from gravity. I'll skip over the basic

stuff this time and leap in feet first by giving you the completed program.

----------

y=100:x=100:rem put the bob on the screen to start with so you can see it.

' each direction (up/down,left/right) has it's own equation

x_velocity=0

y_velocity=0

x_acceleration=0

y_acceleration=0

do

        if jright(1) then x_acceleration=1

        if jleft(1) then x_acceleration=-1

        else x_acceleration=0

        x_velocity=x_velocity+x_acceleration

        x=x+x_velocity

        if jdown(1) then y_acceleration=1

        if jup(1) then y_acceleration=-1

        else y_acceleration=0

        y_velocity=y_velocity+y_acceleration

        y=y+y_velocity

        bob 1,x,y,1

        if x>screen width then x=0

        if x<0 then x= screen width

        if y>screen height then y=0

        if y<0 then y=screen height

        if velocity >20 then velocity=20 :rem set the maximum velocity of

        if velocity <20 then velocity=-20 :rem the object.

loop

-----------

The program can be written smaller, but I wrote it in this form so that it

is very readable. You can improve upon it's syntax and size youself. The
first

thing to do is correctly calculate it's position when it loops off the

screen from one side to the other, not just set it to the outer boundary as

I have done. Don't be lazy! do it your self and learn about it! :-)



Now lets enter a gravity field. Lets make it Earth field. Earths gravity is

about 9.8m/s/s down, or in our case the positive direction. Earths gravity

does vary slightly in places but not by much and can generally be taken as

9.8m/s/s. In our program gravity will be given in pixels. Why? "cause it's

easier than doing the calculations! Do them in your own programs if you

want, but you need to figure out the scale of the screen first.

Our gravity shall be +1.At the very top of the program put GRAVITY=1 and

change y_acceleration to equal 2. We need to be able to over come gravity,

or keep it at 1 to cancel the gravity.

Change the line y_velocity=y_velocity+y_acceleration to

                y_velocity=y_velocity+y_acceleration + gravity

There you go! You have the basics of inertia and gravity in your games now.

To change the objects  inertia change it's acceleration. The larger the

acceleration, the less inertia. If you want friction, use it as a gravity

in the x direction, but remeber to set it to 0 when the bobs velocity =0 so

it doesn't roll back ward.



While I'm on the subject, lets talk about momentum. When two objects

collide, they usually make a noise. This is some of their momentum being

converted in to sound. This slows down the objects.

if you drop a ball, each time it hit's the ground, it makes a noise then

bounces back a little lower than when it was dropped. We can simulate this

by using the boom sound effect and lowering it's velocity each time it hits

the ground.

Comment out the two lines that give the joystick control over the

y_velocity.

Draw a line across the bottom of the screen. Now when the bob (re-draw it

to make it look like a ball) goes past this line, change it's velocity from

positive to negative. Also reduce it's velocity a little and play the boom

sound. Then redraw the bob on the screen.

You now have a bouncing ball that bounces smaller each time it hits the

ground. You can control the left and right direction.



That's about it. Give some feed back. And let's see some programs/games
shown on

the list using this!



Darryl


-- Via DLG Pro v1.0


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov  3 20:30:23 1994
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From: MenTaT - !Productions <mentat@sefl.satelnet.org>
Message-Id: <199411032357.SAA01286@sefl.satelnet.org>
Subject: Re: Inertia tutorial
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 18:57:48 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <9411040208.AA00pm7@comlink.mpx.com.au> from "Darryl Lewis" at Nov 3, 94 08:08:04 pm
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1271      
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> While I'm on the subject, lets talk about momentum. When two objects
> collide, they usually make a noise. This is some of their momentum being
> converted in to sound. This slows down the objects.
> if you drop a ball, each time it hit's the ground, it makes a noise then
> bounces back a little lower than when it was dropped. We can simulate this
> by using the boom sound effect and lowering it's velocity each time it hits
> the ground.

Just thought I'd add here that the sound is only a small fraction of the 
retarding force - the rest is from the coefficient of elasticity.  I'm 
working on a bunch of functions to do all this stuff, so I won't go into 
the details, but here's an example - take two "powerballs" (those highly 
bouncy rubber balls), and hold them one above the other so they're 
touching, and drop them.  All things being equal, the bottom ball will 
hardly bounce at all, and the top ball will go flying into the air, even 
though they made more noise than if you dropped them individually...

I knew my A-levels would come in useful eventually. :)

--
                            !Productions 1994

GCS -d+ H+ s++:- g+ p? !au a- w+++ v* C+++ UB+++A++++ P++ L++ E+ N+++ K+ !W---
M-- V po- Y+ t++ 5+ jx R G? tv++ D- B--- e+ u** h f r++ !n y+


From mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it Fri Nov  4 04:41:12 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 10:39:31 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Re: New Files on AmiNet
To: Dolfan in VA <mcox@access.digex.net>
Cc: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941103125047.571A-100000@access4.digex.net>
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On Thu, 3 Nov 1994, Dolfan in VA wrote:

> I am going to try to post a list of the new files each month.  Please read
> the FAQ for the complete list of files on AmiNet.  If you know of a file
> that is not in the list, please email me and tell me the filename so that I
> can get the information.
> 
> 	If you want the AMOS FAQ sent to you, please email me and I will
> add you to the AMOS FAQ list.  Please let me know if you are on the list
> (or think that you are) so I can check it.
> 
> 	I am compiling a description of the extensions listed in the FAQ so
> if anyone has a new extension or a description they want to put in there,
> just send it to me.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Michael
> -------------------------------NEW FILES--------------------------------
> Amastermind.lha      game/think 124K+Mastermind type game written in AMOS. V1.1
> AMOS-PD-CD.txt       docs/rview   5K REVIEW: AMOS PD CD
> AMOSList-0994.lzh    dev/amos   132K+Messages about AMOS during September 1994
> AMOSList-1094.lzh    dev/amos   160K+Messages about AMOS during October 1994
> amosutil.lha         dev/amos     2K+Small AMOS tools
> Am_Mui10.lha         dev/amos    65K+Use MUI from AMOSPro
> bootcontroller10.lha disk/misc   63K+   Password protection for hard dis
> chaneques_1.lha      game/think 416K+Great puzzle game,good gfx,Disk 1/2,Amos
> chaneques_2.lha      game/think 397K+Great puzzle game,good gfx,Disk 2,Amos
> codefinder.lha       game/think  90K+   Mastermind type game
> gridloc.lha          misc/sci    48K+(AMOS) Amateur Radio grid square calc
> interface-design.lha dev/amos    46K+User-interface-designer for amospro. v1.0
> mapcreator.lha       dev/amos     7K+Generates 2D overhead view terrain maps
> mimic.lha            game/misc  101K+   Simon type game for workbench
> Othello.lha          dev/amos     3K+A conversion of the board game OTHELLO   

Where did you get those?
There are sites which mirror aminet  which have much more of them.

Just look at phoenix.ic.ac.uk.

M&F


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov  4 07:30:33 1994
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From: Derek Piper <se1dp@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199411041016.AA048934181@aether.cms.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: DUP Games Demo
To: sfmcnally@BIX.com
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 10:16:21 GMT
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <9411040235.memo.7810@BIX.com>; from "sfmcnally@BIX.com" at Nov 04, 94 2:35 am
X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14]
Status: RO
X-Status: 


        Hi Seumas,

                I would indeed like to see the game demo. If you post it to
aminet/games/demos on your local board then everyone (including non-amos users)
would be able to get it, and it's easier than uuencoding/decoding it. If you
still want to e-mail it then I'll have mine UUencoded.

        Cheers.

                                Del.

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                                |        __                             |
|      Derek Piper               |       ///   Contact me for anything   |
|                                |  __  ///    about Amigas.             |
|   E-Mail: se1dp@dmu.ac.uk      |  \\\///                               |
|                                |   \\\/      I have A1200,120MB HD,    |
|   Software Engineering Year 1  |             6MB Ram,20Mhz 68881       |
|   DeMontfort University, Leic  |                                       |
+--------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget;   |
| the wise forgive but do not forget.                                    |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov  4 07:59:51 1994
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From: Derek Piper <se1dp@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199411041000.AA039313258@aether.cms.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: New Files on AmiNet
To: mcox@access.digex.net (Dolfan in VA)
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 10:00:58 GMT
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941103125047.571A-100000@access4.digex.net>; from "Dolfan in VA" at Nov 3, 94 12:55 (noon)
X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14]
Status: RO
X-Status: A


        Hi everybody,

                I have recently uploaded version 1.2 of BootController to
Hensa and it should appear on the aminet witihin a few days. It is called
BootController12.lha.

        Cheers.

                                Del.

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                                |        __                             |
|      Derek Piper               |       ///   Contact me for anything   |
|                                |  __  ///    about Amigas.             |
|   E-Mail: se1dp@dmu.ac.uk      |  \\\///                               |
|                                |   \\\/      I have A1200,120MB HD,    |
|   Software Engineering Year 1  |             6MB Ram,20Mhz 68881       |
|   DeMontfort University, Leic  |                                       |
+--------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget;   |
| the wise forgive but do not forget.                                    |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov  4 08:11:04 1994
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From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Sender: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Reply-To: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Re: Inertia tutorial
To: Darryl Lewis <Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <9411040208.AA00pm7@comlink.mpx.com.au>
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On Thu, 3 Nov 1994, Darryl Lewis wrote:

> All the algrothms come from the basic equations for straight line motion.
> 
> eq1    v=u+at
> 
> eq2    s=ut+0.5att
> 
> eq3    vv=uu+2as
         ^^^^^^^^^

I think it is vv=uu/2as, isn't it?

M&F



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov  4 08:22:32 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 10:05:03 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Re: Inertia tutorial
To: MenTaT - !Productions <mentat@sefl.satelnet.org>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <199411032357.SAA01286@sefl.satelnet.org>
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On Thu, 3 Nov 1994, MenTaT - !Productions wrote:

> > While I'm on the subject, lets talk about momentum. When two objects
> > collide, they usually make a noise. This is some of their momentum being
> > converted in to sound. This slows down the objects.
> > if you drop a ball, each time it hit's the ground, it makes a noise then
> > bounces back a little lower than when it was dropped. We can simulate this
> > by using the boom sound effect and lowering it's velocity each time it hits
> > the ground.
> 
> Just thought I'd add here that the sound is only a small fraction of the 
> retarding force - the rest is from the coefficient of elasticity.  I'm 
> working on a bunch of functions to do all this stuff, so I won't go into 
> the details, but here's an example - take two "powerballs" (those highly 
> bouncy rubber balls), and hold them one above the other so they're 
> touching, and drop them.  All things being equal, the bottom ball will 
> hardly bounce at all, and the top ball will go flying into the air, even 
> though they made more noise than if you dropped them individually...
> 
> I knew my A-levels would come in useful eventually. :)

You are right.
Just think to make the experiment in a vacuum box. No sound will be
produced, but the ball still decrease the high of the bounce at very bounce.

M&F


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov  4 08:27:42 1994
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Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 02:36:21 -0500 (EST)
From: sfmcnally@BIX.com
Subject: Re: AmosPro compiler...
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
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FYI, the On Every command is crashy, along with BTst when compiled, and "Get
Palette %xxxxxxx" (only with the pattern) when compiled, and the Exit
command is dangerous any time.  This is with Creator, but since Pro was just
a hack job on top of Creator anyway, they probly still stand.

You all wonder why Amos Pro seems to be coded so badly, with illegal
instructions put in intentionaly in places?  It's because Francois was
pushed like hell to do Pro quickly, he could have done a MUCH better job if
EuroPress had given him a number of months more, but they rushed it and it's
crashy and not the best internaly.

I say, if the Amos Pro source does go out to this development team, they
should take the source for the Amos Pro Editor, fix it up, and graft it onto
the Amos Creator source code (that's nice and stable).  Then add in any of
the more usefull pro commands to the new hybrid source.  Basicaly build a
new Super Pro from Creator and the good bits of Pro, and do it RIGHT.

IMO.

Seumas @ Dark Unicorn Productions
(sfmcnally@bix.com)

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov  4 08:34:18 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Nov 94 13:19:27 +0100
From: Christian Mumenthaler <mumi@mol.biol.ethz.ch>
Message-Id: <9411041219.AA20360@odin>
Received: from hel.ethz.ch by odin id AA20360; Fri, 4 Nov 94 13:19:27 +0100
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Inertia tutorial
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> 
> 
> On Thu, 3 Nov 1994, Darryl Lewis wrote:
> 
> > All the algrothms come from the basic equations for straight line motion.
> > 
> > eq1    v=u+at
> > 
> > eq2    s=ut+0.5att
> > 
> > eq3    vv=uu+2as
>          ^^^^^^^^^
> 
> I think it is vv=uu/2as, isn't it?
> 
> M&F
> 

No. I think Darryl was right:

The square of eq1 is: vv=uu+2atu+aatt which can be written as
               
                      vv=uu+2a(ut+0.5att) where the bracket is eq2

The result is eq3.
Everything ok?

Regards,

	Chris 


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov  4 08:35:01 1994
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Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 02:35:34 -0500 (EST)
From: sfmcnally@BIX.com
Subject: DUP Games Demo
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
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Greets,

I've got a brand new demo of a bunch of Amiga Games coming soon from
Dark Unicorn Productions.  I was just wondering if any of you would like
me to send it to you UUEncoded (300k LHA file).  It's got good music,
some amazing Screen Wipes (done totaly with the Blitter, you'll be amazed),
and some very cool screenshots and info.

Just mail me, and I'll send it out to whoever asks in a few days.

Seumas @ Dark Unicorn Productions
(sfmcnally@bix.com)

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov  4 09:16:12 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 07:38:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: New Files on AmiNet
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9411041030.D28985-b100000@varano.ing.unico.it>
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Those files were just the new ones since September.  I grabbed them from
the AmiNet main site (wuarchive).  If you want the FAQ, it lists all of the
files that I could find.  Just let me know.

Michael
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
             For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov  4 09:58:16 1994
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From: saylor@tcet.unt.edu (Matt Sayler)
Message-Id: <9411041349.AA108910@tcet.unt.edu>
Subject: Show/Hide
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 94 7:49:50 CST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL17]
Status: RO
X-Status: 

What's with show and hide? Half (or more like 80%) of the time, they don't
work in my program. Right now I've solved the problem by using procedures
and for...next loops to repeat the commands 10 times. This isn't foolproof:
when I had it set to 5 times it didn't work a few times and I feel like its
just a matter of time with this. Any ideas!

Spam-235 / John Williams / saylor@tcet.unt.edu
"But if there's no Silicon Hell, where do all the Macintoshes go?"


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov  4 10:59:26 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 14:46:05 +0001 (GMT)
From: "Richard Stitson (Genetics)" <rnms@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Inertia tutorial
To: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Cc: Darryl Lewis <Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au>, amos-list@access.digex.net
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On Fri, 4 Nov 1994, Marco Beretta wrote:

> 
> 
> On Thu, 3 Nov 1994, Darryl Lewis wrote:
> 
> > All the algrothms come from the basic equations for straight line motion.
> > 
> > eq1    v=u+at
> > 
> > eq2    s=ut+0.5att
> > 
> > eq3    vv=uu+2as
>          ^^^^^^^^^
> 
> I think it is vv=uu/2as, isn't it?
>               ********* 
> M&F
> 
> 
No vv=uu+2as is correct
Richard



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov  4 12:12:28 1994
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Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 10:56:46 -0500
From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411041556.AA27014@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Show/Hide
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>What's with show and hide? Half (or more like 80%) of the time, they don't
>work in my program. Right now I've solved the problem by using procedures
>and for...next loops to repeat the commands 10 times. This isn't foolproof:
>when I had it set to 5 times it didn't work a few times and I feel like its
>just a matter of time with this. Any ideas!

  Try using "Show On" and "Hide On" instead.  One more for the bug list...

  --Andy Church

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov  4 14:04:03 1994
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From: "C.J.COULSON" <C.J.Coulson@newcastle.ac.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date:          Fri, 4 Nov 1994 17:34:05 GMT0BST
Subject:       Disk Files
Priority: normal
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Message-Id: <D48EB70F66@TOWN4.ncl.ac.uk>
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At last, the list is back in shape, grand!

So, here`s a question I`ve been saving for a while.

Is there any way that AMOS can save binary data
to a disk file?

What I mean is this:

If I do (apologies for any syntax errors)

reserve as data 10,1024
for a=0 to 1020 step 4
   loke start(10)+a,rnd(42)
next a
bsave "ram:test",start(10) to start(10)+1024

is there any way I could achieve the same disk
file by opening it and writing directly to the disk,
rather than having to write to a bank first.

I`ve tried doing

open output #1,"ram:test"
for a=0 to 1020 step 4
   print #1,rnd(42)
next a
close #1

(again, I know the actual code I wrote was syntactically
correct even if the above isn`t)

The problem here is that AMOS doesn`t seem able to
recognise that I want to save each variable as a long word,
so I end up with a compacted file, which isn`t what I want.

Cheers
Chris
c.j.coulson@ncl.ac.uk
A4000/030/882 - 6/530






From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov  4 14:32:25 1994
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	id AA22828; Fri, 4 Nov 1994 11:07:39 -0700
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 11:07:38 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: new release and NEW GAME!
Message-Id: <Pine.ULT.3.90.941104110703.22817A-100000@cc.dixie.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: RO
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Wondering if anyone knows of any current plan to revamp the AMOS 
package, or the release of the source code or something to the public or 
someone willing to finish the unfinished...

Also curious if anyone would like me to email a uuencoded demo version of 
airTaxi, a *NEW* 3-or 5-player simultaneous - game before I prepare a 
version for aminet (if I ever do)

the registered version will be available probably through the AMOS PD 
Club USA later on...

It needs 14mhz or better to run!

Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov  4 16:57:17 1994
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	id AA24085; Fri, 4 Nov 1994 12:43:58 -0700
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 12:43:57 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: "C.J.COULSON" <C.J.Coulson@newcastle.ac.uk>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Disk Files
In-Reply-To: <D48EB70F66@TOWN4.ncl.ac.uk>
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Try:

for a=0 to 1020 step 4
   print #1,chr$(0)+chr$(0)+chr$(0)+chr$(42);
next

if I got your idea right that's what you want
if the 42 is situated correctly on the long word...

basically you're outputting four bytes at a time.

Dave May

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sat Nov  5 20:43:37 1994
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Date: Sat, 05 Nov 1994 00:57:09 -0500 (EST)
From: sfmcnally@BIX.com
Subject: Re: DUP Games Demo
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
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Del,

I would send the demo to AmiNet, but Bix still doesn't have FTP PUTs
implemented yet.

Will mail it out in a day or two.

Seumas @ Dark Unicorn Productions
(sfmcnally@bix.com)

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sat Nov  5 21:31:33 1994
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Date: Sat, 05 Nov 1994 00:56:59 -0500 (EST)
From: sfmcnally@BIX.com
Subject: Show/Hide
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
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Try "Hide On" and "Show On".  For some strange reason, Amos keeps track of
how many Hide or Shows you've called, and only makes it take effect if the
number of each called match up.  Using the "On" parameter forces it to
forget how many times the oposite command has been called and just get the
foo on with it.

Seumas @ Dark Unicorn Productions
(sfmcnally@bix.com)

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sat Nov  5 22:49:05 1994
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Date: Sat, 5 Nov 1994 14:23:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: Interface Designer
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941105142126.1136A-100000@access1.digex.net>
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Hey, guys, check out the Interface Designer program on AmiNet.  It helps
you create AMOS Pro Interfaces using the mouse.  This is a demo so it does
not allow you to save the final design, but it does work really well.

interface-design.lha dev/amos    46K+User-interface-designer for amospro.

Michael
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
             For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sat Nov  5 23:15:16 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
Path: news1.digex.net!news.intercon.com!panix!news.mathworks.com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.chalmers.se!news.gu.se!gd-news!d6159.shv.hb.se!sa418
From: sa418@utb.shv.hb.se (Martin Caspersson)
Subject: Re: AMOS Playing Samples? Help!
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References: <37v41b$iko@mark.ucdavis.edu> <sfmcnally.783689160@BIX.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 11:26:58 GMT
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In article <sfmcnally.783689160@BIX.com> sfmcnally@BIX.com (sfmcnally on BIX) writes:

>szmagic@rocky.ucdavis.edu (Richard Hill) writes:

>>I can't get AMOS to play RAW samples (from my Meglosound digitizer) that 
>>are longer than about 2 secs.  The sample bank converter will only handle 
>>samples this lenght or shorter reliably and I cn't seem to get the RAW 
>>sample play function to work at all.  Any help appreciated.

>Are you sure you're reserving the bank for your samples as CHIP?

>Seumas

The thing is that the sample bank seem to be very limited in the sample 
length department. But what you want to do is this:

Reserve As Chip Data Bank num,Length of sample
'or Reserve As Chip Work if 
'you don't want to save the bank with the program
Bload "Filename",Bank num
sam raw Channel bit mask,start(Bank num),length(Bank num),Samplerate

for example
Reserve As Chip Data 1,102927
Bload "I'll be back.iff",1
saw raw 12,start(1),lenght(1),16124
 



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sun Nov  6 09:18:12 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.games
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 1994 06:45:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: airTaxi!
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941105144603.22408A-100000-100000@access4.digex.net>
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For those of you who have not requested that airTaxi be sent to you, you
are missing a good game.  It was fun, and simple, but gets harder as you
play.  You drive a taxi and you fly between different points on the screen,
picking up a passenger and taking him where he says to go.  Nice graphics
and the voices are a good touch.

Ask for it!

Michael
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
             For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sun Nov  6 16:13:25 1994
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Date: Sun, 6 Nov 1994 15:13:56 -0500
From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411062013.AA15578@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS Playing Samples? Help!
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>The thing is that the sample bank seem to be very limited in the sample 
>length department. But what you want to do is this:
>
>Reserve As Chip Data Bank num,Length of sample
>'or Reserve As Chip Work if 
>'you don't want to save the bank with the program
>Bload "Filename",Bank num
>sam raw Channel bit mask,start(Bank num),length(Bank num),Samplerate
>
>for example
>Reserve As Chip Data 1,102927
>Bload "I'll be back.iff",1
>saw raw 12,start(1),lenght(1),16124

  Unfortunately, that won't work - AMOS won't play samples longer than
65535 ($FFFF) bytes.  If you have to play a longer sample, you'll need to
use double buffering, which is reasonably well explained in the AMOS Pro
manual (page 8.2.04).  Of course, if your sample is smaller than 64k,
you're fine.

  --Andy Church

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sun Nov  6 18:03:27 1994
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Date: Sun, 6 Nov 1994 15:43:41 -0600 (CST)
From: Robert J Goos <goos@badlands.NoDak.edu>
Subject: EASY AMOS KAPUT?
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
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Upon the demise of Commodore, I decided to buy up some software to keep 
my old A 500 busy for the next few years.  I tried to buy a copy of Easy 
Amos, but was unsuccessful in finding anyone who carries it.  I have a 
copy of the original Amos, but find the manual too complicated for my 
mind.  SO..where can someone get a copy of Easy Amos so as to get started 
with Amos programming?

By the way, is Europress still making Amos and Amos Pro?  Are these 
products still being developed/upgraded?

My goal is not unlike many of those who buy an Amos product--I have an 
idea for a "killer" game, and have always wanted to code it!

Best wishes and many thanks.

R. J. Goos
Fargo, ND, USA
"Yes, it does get cold here."


From mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it Mon Nov  7 07:14:10 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 13:13:06 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Re: New Files on AmiNet
To: Dolfan in VA <mcox@access.digex.net>
Cc: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941104073738.15800F-100000@access3.digex.net>
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On Fri, 4 Nov 1994, Dolfan in VA wrote:

> Those files were just the new ones since September.  I grabbed them from
> the AmiNet main site (wuarchive).  If you want the FAQ, it lists all of the
> files that I could find.  Just let me know.
> 
> Michael
> --
> Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
> A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
>              For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
>              For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net
> 

Yes, I am interested.
How long is it the file?

M&F


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov  7 07:58:32 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 12:18:44 +0200 (EET)
From: Petri Hakkinen <mystic@tlti.tokem.fi>
Subject: Re: Show/Hide
To: Amos list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <9411041556.AA27014@goober.mbhs.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.87.9411071244.A4713-0100000@tlti>
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> >What's with show and hide? Half (or more like 80%) of the time, they don't
> >work in my program. Right now I've solved the problem by using procedures
> >and for...next loops to repeat the commands 10 times. This isn't foolproof:
> >when I had it set to 5 times it didn't work a few times and I feel like its
> >just a matter of time with this. Any ideas!
> 
>   Try using "Show On" and "Hide On" instead.  One more for the bug list...
> 
>   --Andy Church
> 

I guess you are using a Hide command for all the screens in your program 
like this:

(just a simple example)
Screen Open 0,320,100,32,lowres : Hide
Screen Open 1,320,50,32,lowres: Hide

mean just add only one Hide at the beginning and one Show when you
wan't to disable the pointer.

This is not a bug, as it says in the manual:
You have to use Show as many times you have used Hide to make the pointer
visible.

Ok, I may be wrong, but could you send the code (or piece of it)
that caused you problems to the list... Thanks

Petri Hakkinen
mystic@tlti.tokem.fi


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov  7 08:38:05 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 06:40:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: Robert J Goos <goos@badlands.NoDak.edu>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: EASY AMOS KAPUT?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411061549.A31890-0100000@badlands.NoDak.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941107063853.15262E-100000@access4.digex.net>
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On Sun, 6 Nov 1994, Robert J Goos wrote:
> mind.  SO..where can someone get a copy of Easy Amos so as to get started 
> with Amos programming?
Probably need to call the mailorder shops.  Maybe even check nearby Amiga
stores as it is no longer made.

> By the way, is Europress still making Amos and Amos Pro?  Are these 
> products still being developed/upgraded?
No, not officially.  We are hoping the codee will be given to a group of
people on this list to make future developments to.

Michael
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
             For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov  7 08:47:00 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 06:50:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: airTaxi!
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941107064958.15262M-100000@access4.digex.net>
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The author of airTaxi! can be reached at:  may_d@cc.dixie.edu
He will uuencode the file and maile it to you if you request it.

Michael
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
             For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov  7 09:13:42 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 07:12:37 -0500
From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411071212.AA14216@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: EASY AMOS KAPUT?
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>Upon the demise of Commodore, I decided to buy up some software to keep 
>my old A 500 busy for the next few years.  I tried to buy a copy of Easy 
>Amos, but was unsuccessful in finding anyone who carries it.  I have a 
>copy of the original Amos, but find the manual too complicated for my 
>mind.  SO..where can someone get a copy of Easy Amos so as to get started 
>with Amos programming?

  <shrug> I have no idea.

>By the way, is Europress still making Amos and Amos Pro?  Are these 
>products still being developed/upgraded?

  Europress doesn't give a hoot about them anymore, but I and a few others
on the list are working on developing it further.

  --Andy Church

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov  7 09:23:37 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 07:06:40 -0500
From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411071206.AA14086@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS Playing Samples? Help! (fwd)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>>The thing is that the sample bank seem to be very limited in the sample 
>>length department. But what you want to do is this:
>>
>>Reserve As Chip Data Bank num,Length of sample
>>'or Reserve As Chip Work if 
>>'you don't want to save the bank with the program
>>Bload "Filename",Bank num
>>sam raw Channel bit mask,start(Bank num),length(Bank num),Samplerate
>>
>>for example
>>Reserve As Chip Data 1,102927
>>Bload "I'll be back.iff",1
>>saw raw 12,start(1),lenght(1),16124
>
>  Unfortunately, that won't work - AMOS won't play samples longer than
>65535 ($FFFF) bytes.  If you have to play a longer sample, you'll need to
>use double buffering, which is reasonably well explained in the AMOS Pro
>manual (page 8.2.04).  Of course, if your sample is smaller than 64k,
>you're fine.
>
>  --Andy Church

I have put a procedure in the library (I think it's there - I sent it to andy) which
will play any sample directly from disk, using double buffering, and the "Every" 
commands to cause interupts to load the next section from within AMOS. Mail me for it
if it is not there.

Also, you could try EME from paul reece.

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov  7 10:08:59 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 13:28:13 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: BUGS...
To: amos-list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9411071313.A19555-a100000@varano.ing.unico.it>
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I am the only one which uses AmosPro in hires mode?
I have AmosPro v1.12.

* When using the screen in interlaced mode the windows sometimes produce
strange effects when changing their size.
* The first time a line is moved to another line (with backspace), strange
things happen, such as appearing of already deleted blocks, the
duplication of the same line etc...

* This problem is also in the non interlace mode.
When you scroll the text with the scroll bar, it moves some lines backward
the first time.

This are little bugs... but as little I think should be easy to fix... 

There is not a complete list of the BUG in AmosPro?
Just to avoid them...

Thanks M&F


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov  7 10:53:42 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 14:58:11 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Sender: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Reply-To: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Scrolling & Screen problems 
To: amos-list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
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I am the author of SRM2.2.
It is an update to the original Resource Bank editor...

I'm working on version 2.3 of the program, but I have some problem.

The program autoconfigure the resolution of the screen to merge that
of the loaded image. But my calculations of the size of the screen are
always made for low-res image... so if you load a hires picture it will
scroll to the right even though it fit in the screen.
I have resolved this problem... but:

There is not a way to know the resolution of the loaded image?
As I said the screen auto configures, but I cannot know the resolution it
has chosen.

Resolving this would let the program completely automated.

Another problem is that I have enlarged the button panel. Now if you move
it too far down the screen dragging it, the horizontal scrolling of the screen
behind shows strange picture at the top of the screen.
How can I resolve this problem?

Is anyone interested helping me?

Thanks a lot

M&F


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov  7 12:47:15 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 15:36:58 +0100
From: Daniel Johansson <d94djo@csd.uu.se>
Message-Id: <199411071436.PAA13202@hp10.csd.uu.se>
To: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu, amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: EASY AMOS KAPUT?
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>  Europress doesn't give a hoot about them anymore, but I and a few others
>on the list are working on developing it further.

Does this mean that they no longer have copyright to the AMOS packages?

--
Daniel Johansson

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov  7 14:11:21 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 12:43:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Cc: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: New Files on AmiNet
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9411071304.A19200-a100000@varano.ing.unico.it>
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Status: RO
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On Mon, 7 Nov 1994, Marco Beretta wrote:
> Yes, I am interested.
> How long is it the file?
The FAQ is about 15724 bytes.

Michael
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
             For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov  7 14:39:29 1994
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From: sfmcnally@BIX.com (sfmcnally on BIX)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: AMOS!!!
Date: 6 Nov 94 09:50:59 GMT
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Lines: 15
Message-Id: <sfmcnally.784115459@BIX.com>
References: <1994Nov6.060449.4761@blaze.trentu.ca>
Nntp-Posting-Host: bix.com
Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 13:00:03 -0500 (EST)
Resent-From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
Resent-To: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
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Status: RO
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mhickson@ivory.trentu.ca (Matthew Hickson) writes:

>AMOS v1.35) and recently I have found AMOS to be becoming a little bit of a 
>	I have been told that AMOS really had buggy serial stuff... so I 
>picked up Lserial (great product...).  Unfortunately, I still have buggy 
>serial stuff... I can't do much with my modem and this concerns me (I 
>	Matt

What problems exactly are you having with the modem?  You have to send AT
commands to make it do anything really useful (like ATZ, or ATDT).

Also, you really should get the 1.36 updater from Aminet, 1.35 has big
problems with AGA systems.  You want 1.36 if you'll be releasing anything.

Seumas



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov  7 15:29:56 1994
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From: mhickson@TRENTU.CA (Matthew Hickson)
Subject: AMOS!!!
Message-Id: <1994Nov6.060449.4761@blaze.trentu.ca>
Sender: news@blaze.trentu.ca (USENET News System)
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Organization: Trent University, Peterborough
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Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hello everybody!

	I am an AMOS programmer (not this fancy AmosPro stuff... good old 
AMOS v1.35) and recently I have found AMOS to be becoming a little bit of a 
hinderance (although overall I am still highly impressed with the stuff I 
can produce with little effort).  I have serious problems in the Dos/Serial 
department...

	I have been told that AMOS really had buggy serial stuff... so I 
picked up Lserial (great product...).  Unfortunately, I still have buggy 
serial stuff... I can't do much with my modem and this concerns me (I 
haven't registered Lserial... still operating under WB1.3 and I don't have 
the money to ship away for a non-working copy of Lserial and Ldos... both 
of which sound like good investments).  Does anybody know how to fix these 
problems [... and still use AMOS!!!]?  

	I have been using the Turbo.LIB v1.3 (Nothing was mentioned about 
registering this... Am I supposed to???  It's certainly a good investment 
in my books!)  and this quality has made me hope that I can somehow figure 
things out.  

	Heeeeeeeeeeelp!  Please.

Later...
	
	Matt


] Matthew Hickson [***] ...like Lemmings to the great sea of infinity... [ 



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov  7 15:52:45 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Nov 94 19:53:55 1100
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From: Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au (Darryl Lewis)
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Dsam
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hi all,
sorry 'bout wasting bandwidth, but....

A while ago someone asked for a copy of DSAM, which lets you play sound
samples direct off hard disk.
I lost that persons address (sorry), so if they send me a mail, I'll drop
the uuencoded copy of the program to you.
Sorry for the delay...
Darryl

-- Via DLG Pro v1.0


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Date: Mon, 7 Nov 94 19:09:47 1100
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From: Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au (Darryl Lewis)
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Inertia tutorial
Status: RO
X-Status: 


 MB> You are right.
 MB> Just think to make the experiment in a vacuum box. No sound will be
 MB> produced, but the ball still decrease the high of the bounce at very
 MB> bounce.

 MB> M&F

Some of the energy (knetic) is transfered into heat (It can't be easily
represented in a program, can it) another portion would be converted into
another type of radiation (sound is a radiation). Heat,sound,light, etc are
all forms that it can be changed into.
I didn't want to complicate matters for people who were trying to come to
grips with the ideas.
Darryl

-- Via DLG Pro v1.0


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov  7 16:46:01 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 14:35:08 -0500
From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411071935.AA14832@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Scrolling & Screen problems 
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>The program autoconfigure the resolution of the screen to merge that
>of the loaded image. But my calculations of the size of the screen are
>always made for low-res image... so if you load a hires picture it will
>scroll to the right even though it fit in the screen.
>I have resolved this problem... but:
>
>There is not a way to know the resolution of the loaded image?
>As I said the screen auto configures, but I cannot know the resolution it
>has chosen.

  There is - use the Screen Mode function, which returns the mode value of
the current screen.

>Another problem is that I have enlarged the button panel. Now if you move
>it too far down the screen dragging it, the horizontal scrolling of the screen
>behind shows strange picture at the top of the screen.
>How can I resolve this problem?

  Sounds like a bug - AMOS isn't clipping the panel to the screen.  Sigh...

  --Andy Church

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov  7 18:30:34 1994
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Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 22:36:52 +0100
From: Daniel Johansson <d94djo@csd.uu.se>
Message-Id: <199411072136.WAA02188@hp10.csd.uu.se>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net, Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au
Subject: Re: Inertia tutorial
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>Some of the energy (knetic) is transfered into heat (It can't be easily
>represented in a program, can it) another portion would be converted into
>another type of radiation (sound is a radiation). Heat,sound,light, etc are
>all forms that it can be changed into.

Sound is radiation? No, it isn't!
It is a wave motion which fluctuates between high and low air pressure
a certain number of times per second, usually called the Hertz value.
Heat and light are virtually the same thing, it's radiation buth in
different frequenzy areas of the spectrum. And kinetic energy can also
be transferred between bodies, as it will during a collision.
So all of the kinetic energy will not be converted, some of it will
move over from the ball to the box.
I hope this clears something up...

--
Daniel Johansson

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov  8 06:31:19 1994
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Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 11:31:37 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Re: Inertia tutorial
To: Darryl Lewis <Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <9411080109.AA00qg6@comlink.mpx.com.au>
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On Mon, 7 Nov 1994, Darryl Lewis wrote:

> 
>  MB> You are right.
>  MB> Just think to make the experiment in a vacuum box. No sound will be
>  MB> produced, but the ball still decrease the high of the bounce at very
>  MB> bounce.
> 
>  MB> M&F
> 
> Some of the energy (knetic) is transfered into heat (It can't be easily
> represented in a program, can it) another portion would be converted into
> another type of radiation (sound is a radiation). Heat,sound,light, etc are
> all forms that it can be changed into.
> I didn't want to complicate matters for people who were trying to come to
> grips with the ideas.

Well, the energy lost by heat is very, very a small amount compared to 
that it is involved moving the ball.
The major cause of the decreasing bounces is the elastic coefficient of 
the material of the ball and of the floor.
Any material is not completely rigid, so there is always a great amount 
of energy which pass from the ball to the floor in forms of waves.
You can detect a bouncing ball ever if you can hear it of see it if you 
are close to it and put a hand on the floor. These waves carry lots of 
energy which is subctracted from the next bounce of the ball.

M&F

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov  8 08:12:07 1994
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From: Derek Piper <se1dp@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199411081044.AA080521488@kola.cms.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: BUGS...
To: mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it (Marco Beretta)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 1994 10:44:47 GMT
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9411071313.A19555-a100000@varano.ing.unico.it>; from "Marco Beretta" at Nov 7, 94 1:28 pm
X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14]
Status: RO
X-Status: 


        Hi Marco,

                You could always try upgrading to AMOS Pro 2.00, it's the latest
version. It's been out for some time now, I got my update with the AMOS Pro
Compiler. Bugs like that have been fixed now.

        See ya.

                                Del.

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                                |        __                             |
|      Derek Piper               |       ///   Contact me for anything   |
|                                |  __  ///    about Amigas.             |
|   E-Mail: se1dp@dmu.ac.uk      |  \\\///                               |
|                                |   \\\/      I have A1200,120MB HD,    |
|   Software Engineering Year 1  |             6MB Ram,20Mhz 68881       |
|   DeMontfort University, Leic  |                                       |
+--------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget;   |
| the wise forgive but do not forget.                                    |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov  8 08:21:21 1994
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Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 13:12:17 +0200 (EET)
From: Petri Hakkinen <mystic@tlti.tokem.fi>
Subject: Pucman Worlds now in funet.fi!
To: Amos list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
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Please upload now the fabulous Pucman Worlds from nic.funet.fi!!!!
Thanks!

                                           Petri Hakkinen
					   mystic@tlti.tokem.fi
        



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov  8 08:34:59 1994
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 	id AA02927; Tue, 8 Nov 1994 12:07:37 +0100
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 12:07:22 PST
From: "stud.ass." <bcollin@mpi.nl>
Subject: Re: EASY AMOS KAPUT?
To: Amos Discussion List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Message-Id: <ECS9411081222A@mpi.nl>
Priority: Normal
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Status: RO
X-Status: 

On Sun, 6 Nov 1994 15:43:41 -0600 (CST) Robert J Goos wrote:

> Upon the demise of Commodore, I decided to buy up some software
> to keep my old A 500 busy for the next few years.  I tried to buy
> a copy of Easy Amos, but was unsuccessful in finding anyone who
> carries it.  I have a copy of the original Amos, but find the
> manual too complicated for my mind.  SO..where can someone get a
> copy of Easy Amos so as to get started with Amos programming?

There was a rumour just recently on this list that Easy Amos would 
appear on the Amiga Computing coverdisk of January.

Branko Collin
bcollin@mpi.nl



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov  8 09:48:50 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Path: news1.digex.net!lynx.unm.edu!tesuque.cs.sandia.gov!ferrari.mst6.lanl.gov!newshost.lanl.gov!ncar!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!luotsi.uku.fi!messi.uku.fi!marturun
From: marturun@messi.uku.fi (Marko Turunen)
Subject: New Extension for AmosPro.
Sender: news@luotsi.uku.fi
Message-Id: <marturun.784193828@messi.uku.fi>
Date:  7 Nov 94 07:37:08 GMT
Organization: University of Kuopio, Finland
Keywords: amos amospro
Lines: 17
Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 07:35:32 -0500 (EST)
Resent-From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
Resent-To: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Resent-Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941108073532.3422D@access3.digex.net>
Apparently-To: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hello all AmosPro users!

	You can find new AmosPro extension called 'MakeLib' in 
	nic.funet.fi pub/amiga/programming/amos/.

	MakeLib is an extension that allows c styled memory allocation
	and freeing (malloc, free) and also OS2.0 type AllocVec. IT also
	has double linked list handling and some other functions +
	couple of amos functions are boosted a bit faster.

	- Marko Turunen

-- 
Marko Turunen 			    
Sairaalakatu 9 B 30                   marturun@messi.uku.fi
70110 Kuopio			      marturun@majakka.uku.fi
P. 971 - 2821 661



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov  8 11:28:50 1994
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Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 08:34:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Pucman Worlds now in funet.fi!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9411081317.A1482-0100000@tlti>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: RO
X-Status: 

On Tue, 8 Nov 1994, Petri Hakkinen wrote:
> Please upload now the fabulous Pucman Worlds from nic.funet.fi!!!!
What directory and what is the filename?  Have you put it on AmiNet?  If
not, do you want me to?

Michael
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
             For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov  8 12:27:29 1994
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Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 15:12:15 +0100 (MET)
From: Flint <Mathieu.Dhondt@rug.ac.be>
To: Derek Piper <se1dp@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Cc: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>, amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: BUGS...
In-Reply-To: <199411081044.AA080521488@kola.cms.dmu.ac.uk>
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Status: RO
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On Tue, 8 Nov 1994, Derek Piper wrote:

> 
>         Hi Marco,
> 
>                 You could always try upgrading to AMOS Pro 2.00, it's the latest
> version. It's been out for some time now, I got my update with the AMOS Pro
> Compiler. 
AFAIK the upgrade is _only_ available through purchase of the compiler.
Now where do you get the compiler, eh?
> Bugs like that have been fixed now.
> 
>         See ya.
> 
>                                 Del.
               
                               Flint.

"My boy, if ever you are lost at sea, drop right in and think of me."
- J. Heller


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov  8 17:44:26 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.audio
Path: news1.digex.net!uunet!sunic!news.chalmers.se!news.gu.se!gd-news!d6171.shv.hb.se!sa418
From: sa418@utb.shv.hb.se (Martin Caspersson)
Subject: Re: AMOS Playing Samples? Help!
Message-Id: <sa418.60@utb.shv.hb.se>
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>>Reserve As Chip Data Bank num,Length of sample
>>Bload "Filename",Bank num
>>sam raw Channel bit mask,start(Bank num),length(Bank num),Samplerate

>>Reserve As Chip Data 1,102927
>>Bload "I'll be back.iff",1
>>saw raw 12,start(1),lenght(1),16124
> 
>Um, you do know that Bload works with addresses, not bank numbers, right? 
>You'd need Bload "File",Start(bank).  Or was that just a typo or bit left
>out of the post?

>Seumas

No, you can specify a bank number to load data into it.  



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov  8 18:02:11 1994
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Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 14:17:50 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: Robert J Goos <goos@badlands.NoDak.edu>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: airTaxi demo
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411081436.A174354-k200000@badlands.NoDak.edu>
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Sorry to those who have only seen Michael Cox's message and not mine 
regarding the 6-level airTaxi demo which so many are responding to:

  airTaxi will only run on Amigas with at least 1 meg of chip ram and
  14mhz or faster processor!

The registered version will be available soon for $15 US and $17 outside 
US.  If anyone would like to try out a demo of airTaxi and have the 
minimum system requirements, send EMail to:

may_d@cc.dixie.edu

Thanks!  -  Dave May

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov  8 20:04:46 1994
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Hokay..
	Ive got a problem with corrupt AMOS files. I brought AMOS Pro V1.1, did some work and then got the PD updater to V2 (via stages). Thing is V2 is 
refusing to load and V1.1 stuff. Nightmare.

	Any ideas??

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov  8 20:22:09 1994
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Date: Tue, 8 Nov 94 21:54:58 GMT
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Organization: Fortune Software
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From: Dominic Ramsey <dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: EASY AMOS KAPUT?
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hi Dolfan in VA <mcox@access.digex.net>
   In <Pine.SUN.3.91.941107063853.15262E-100000@access4.digex.net> you wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 6 Nov 1994, Robert J Goos wrote:
> > mind.  SO..where can someone get a copy of Easy Amos so as to get started 
> > with Amos programming?
> Probably need to call the mailorder shops.  Maybe even check nearby Amiga
> stores as it is no longer made.

Stop.

Before you buy it, Amiga Computing are giving Easy AMOS away on next month's
cover disk. (Jan '95, out November 17)

Regards,

Dom (I Am The Voice of Easy AMOS)



--
Dominic Ramsey      email: dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk
http://www.gate.net/user/play/people/dramsey.html

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov  8 23:33:29 1994
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Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 20:39:48 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: CU Amiga
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Can anyone tell me the address for CU Amiga submissions dept.?

I need it for future reference, urgent.

Thanks!  - Dave May

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov  9 02:21:27 1994
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From: conflict@prairienet.org (raymond t st.john)
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: AMOS Pro Bad Disks
Reply-To: conflict@prairienet.org
Status: RO
X-Status: 



Well I bought my AMOS Pro Sometime ago. When I tried to Install
the software I had nothing but read error on the SYSTEM Disk.
I sent the all the disks back to th UK. 3 and a hal month later
AMOS PRO finally returned. I atempted to Install the software again
but to my nightmare it seemed that all but the system Disk had write
error on them. I called UK. Again and they informed me to send them back.
Well I finally received them back from UK. You gessed it the SYSTEM Disk
has nothing but read errors again. It has been a total of 7 month and I
have not yet been able to start programing with AMOS. Is there a place I
can send the Disks too instead uf UK. It seems I have nothing but bad luck
with them. Thanks Programmers BLUES.

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov  9 03:12:00 1994
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Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 07:01:19 +0001 (GMT)
From: "Richard Stitson (Genetics)" <rnms@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: EASY AMOS KAPUT?
To: "stud.ass." <bcollin@mpi.nl>
Cc: Amos Discussion List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <ECS9411081222A@mpi.nl>
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On Tue, 8 Nov 1994, stud.ass. wrote:

> On Sun, 6 Nov 1994 15:43:41 -0600 (CST) Robert J Goos wrote:
> 
> > Upon the demise of Commodore, I decided to buy up some software
> > to keep my old A 500 busy for the next few years.  I tried to buy
> > a copy of Easy Amos, but was unsuccessful in finding anyone who
> > carries it.  I have a copy of the original Amos, but find the
> > manual too complicated for my mind.  SO..where can someone get a
> > copy of Easy Amos so as to get started with Amos programming?
> 
> There was a rumour just recently on this list that Easy Amos would 
> appear on the Amiga Computing coverdisk of January.
> 
> Branko Collin
> bcollin@mpi.nl
> 
> 
AC ARE advertising Easy Amos with the next issue (?Jan)
Richard



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Organization: UltiMedia Graphics
X-Mailviewer: Mail 1.14
From: Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Inertia tutorial
Status: RO
X-Status: 


Daniel Johansson <d94djo@csd.uu.se> wrote:

> >Some of the energy (knetic) is transfered into heat (It can't be easily
> >represented in a program, can it) another portion would be converted into
> >another type of radiation (sound is a radiation). Heat,sound,light, etc are
> >all forms that it can be changed into.
> 
> Sound is radiation? No, it isn't!
> It is a wave motion which fluctuates between high and low air pressure
> a certain number of times per second, usually called the Hertz value.

Oh yes it is.
Sound is radiated thru a medium which makes it a radiation.
It's just not electromagnetic radiation (light/heat *ARE* EM radiation)


G.
--
Gareth D. Edwards, 25 Somerville Green, Leeds, West Yorkshire, England.  
E-Address: config@ultim.demon.co.uk
Web Home Page: http://www.gate.net/amos/play/people/GarethEdwards.html
Editor of the Seal FAQ and Future Love Paradise W3 site.

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Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 09:54:37 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: ssumorti@reading.ac.uk
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <9411082208.AA16726@allen>
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On Tue, 8 Nov 1994 ssumorti@reading.ac.uk wrote:

> Hokay..
> 	Ive got a problem with corrupt AMOS files. I brought AMOS Pro V1.1, did some work and then got the PD updater to V2 (via stages). Thing is V2 is 
> refusing to load and V1.1 stuff. Nightmare.
> 
> 	Any ideas??
> 
How do you get the updater to v2.0?

M&F

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Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 10:35:17 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Re: Inertia tutorial
To: Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk>
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On Tue, 8 Nov 1994, Gareth Edwards wrote:

> 
> Daniel Johansson <d94djo@csd.uu.se> wrote:
> 
> > >Some of the energy (knetic) is transfered into heat (It can't be easily
> > >represented in a program, can it) another portion would be converted into
> > >another type of radiation (sound is a radiation). Heat,sound,light, etc are
> > >all forms that it can be changed into.
> > 
> > Sound is radiation? No, it isn't!
> > It is a wave motion which fluctuates between high and low air pressure
> > a certain number of times per second, usually called the Hertz value.
> 
> Oh yes it is.
> Sound is radiated thru a medium which makes it a radiation.
> It's just not electromagnetic radiation (light/heat *ARE* EM radiation)

Well, I don't thing sound is a radiation.
Radiation is something which is carried by little particles (electrons, 
protons or neutrons), and sound is not carried by them.
Sound is a wave motion. It is only a change in the pressure of the air 
and which our ear see as noise.
It belongs to macroscopic physics, not microscopic.

Your statement is equal to say that wind is a radiation, or wave on the 
sea is a form of radiation or a earthquake is a radiation. 
They aren't! They are not pure energy (as radiation cerried by a 
particle) but are related to the mass of the material where they are 
moving through.

Radiation exists everywhere, sound no. You cannot have sound in a vacuum 
box, as it strictly depends on a mean (air, but not only) to move. 

M&F

P.S. Sorry for the language, but english is not my native language and 
this things are not easy to explain.

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov  9 08:16:54 1994
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Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 07:09:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: airTaxi demo
In-Reply-To: <Pine.ULT.3.90.941108141339.12267A-100000@cc.dixie.edu>
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On Tue, 8 Nov 1994, Dave May wrote:
>   airTaxi will only run on Amigas with at least 1 meg of chip ram and
>   14mhz or faster processor!
Ooops, sorry if I got people's hopes up that did not have this setup.  I
thought everyone had an accelerated A1200! :) or :(

Michael
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
             For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov  9 09:00:20 1994
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From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
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To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Corrupt AMOS files
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>	Ive got a problem with corrupt AMOS files. I brought AMOS Pro V1.1, did
>some work and then got the PD updater to V2 (via stages). Thing is V2 is 
>refusing to load and V1.1 stuff. Nightmare.

  I didn't know there *was* a PD updater.

  --Andy Church

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov  9 10:07:47 1994
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From: "S. Mortimer" <ssumorti@reading.ac.uk>
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To: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
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On Wed, 9 Nov 1994, Marco Beretta wrote:

> 
> 
> On Tue, 8 Nov 1994 ssumorti@reading.ac.uk wrote:
> 
> > Hokay..
> > 	Ive got a problem with corrupt AMOS files. I brought AMOS Pro V1.1, did some work and then got the PD updater to V2 (via stages). Thing is V2 is 
> > refusing to load and V1.1 stuff. Nightmare.
> > 
> > 	Any ideas??
> > 
> How do you get the updater to v2.0?
> 
> M&F
> 

I can not quite remember, But I think I brought the Updater disk from 
Anne and Len Tucker.. They run an English AMOS group, and do nothoing but 
AMOS PD and stuff. Its on an official disk.

steve

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov  9 10:08:24 1994
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Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 08:18:03 +0500
From: marty@cs.hope.edu (Ben Marty)
Message-Id: <9411091318.AA17319@sauron.cs.hope.edu>
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> 	Ive got a problem with corrupt AMOS files. I brought AMOS Pro V1.1, did
> some work and then got the PD updater to V2 (via stages). Thing is V2 is 
> refusing to load and V1.1 stuff. Nightmare.
> 
> 	Any ideas??

	Use a previous version of AMOS Pro which WILL load the programs.
Save ALL the programs as ASCII Text.  Save the banks separately in .abk files.
Now use the updated version to "Merge ASCII" and load the aprobriate banks.
If you find this troubling, save the files after you load them into the new
AMOS Pro so you don't have to do it again later.


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov  9 10:37:06 1994
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From: "S. Mortimer" <ssumorti@reading.ac.uk>
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To: "raymond t st.john" <conflict@prairienet.org>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS Pro Bad Disks
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On Wed, 9 Nov 1994, raymond t st.john wrote:

> 
> 
> Well I bought my AMOS Pro Sometime ago. When I tried to Install
> the software I had nothing but read error on the SYSTEM Disk.
> I sent the all the disks back to th UK. 3 and a hal month later
> AMOS PRO finally returned. I atempted to Install the software again
> but to my nightmare it seemed that all but the system Disk had write
> error on them. I called UK. Again and they informed me to send them back.
> Well I finally received them back from UK. You gessed it the SYSTEM Disk
> has nothing but read errors again. It has been a total of 7 month and I
> have not yet been able to start programing with AMOS. Is there a place I
> can send the Disks too instead uf UK. It seems I have nothing but bad luck
> with them. Thanks Programmers BLUES.
> 

Dont know much about copyrights.. But if Ray brought the origanal, then 
can one of us give him a copy?? (providing he provides proof?)

Ahh.. No.. Regerstration numbers.. Whoops.. forgot about those!

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Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 08:22:31 +0500
From: marty@cs.hope.edu (Ben Marty)
Message-Id: <9411091322.AA17322@sauron.cs.hope.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net, conflict@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: AMOS Pro Bad Disks
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> Well I bought my AMOS Pro Sometime ago. When I tried to Install
> the software I had nothing but read error on the SYSTEM Disk.
> I sent the all the disks back to th UK. 3 and a hal month later
> AMOS PRO finally returned. I atempted to Install the software again
> but to my nightmare it seemed that all but the system Disk had write
> error on them. I called UK. Again and they informed me to send them back.
> Well I finally received them back from UK. You gessed it the SYSTEM Disk
> has nothing but read errors again. It has been a total of 7 month and I
> have not yet been able to start programing with AMOS. Is there a place I
> can send the Disks too instead uf UK. It seems I have nothing but bad luck
> with them. Thanks Programmers BLUES.

	Someone back me up on this, but perhaps you need your drives
re-aligned or cleaned or something.  Even if all your disks work, it may
only be because those are the disks that are used with those drives all the
time or they were formatted by those drives.  Try finding someone else with
an Amiga and then try the following two things:
1. See if their Amiga can read the AMOS Pro disks.
2. If it can, have them try to copy the contents of the "bad" disks to disks
   that were formatted on your computer.

	On the other hand, maybe UK just has pathetic quality control.

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov  9 11:25:01 1994
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From: Jurgen Valks <J.VALKS@hsbos.nl>
Organization:  Hogeschool 's-Hertogenbosch
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date:          Wed, 9 Nov 1994 14:37:04 GMT-1DFT
Subject:       IntOS
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Hi,

I just received a letter from a company who made a intuition extension,
anybody out there who knows if it's any good ???


Greetings from,

/---------------------------------------------------------------------\
|   Jurgen Valks, Helpdesk HEAO                                       |
|   Tel     : +31 (0)73-295400  Email: j.valks@hsbos.nl               | 
|   Systems : Amiga 2000, Amiga 1200 68030, 50Mhz, 6Mb                |
|              Amiga 1200, 68030 50Mhz. Pc-DX2 66, SNES               |
\_____________________________________________________________________/

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov  9 12:09:09 1994
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Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 09:15:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Corrupt AMOS files
In-Reply-To: <9411091310.AA20729@goober.mbhs.edu>
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On Wed, 9 Nov 1994, Andy Church wrote:
> >some work and then got the PD updater to V2 (via stages). Thing is V2 is 
>   I didn't know there *was* a PD updater.
As far as I know there was a PD house in Europe selling the v2 updater from
the Compiler.  I don't think Europress ever did anything to them or try to
stop them.  Maybe it is now PD?

Michael
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
             For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov  9 12:39:48 1994
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From: Steve Stamford <steves@harston.cv.com>
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Hi all,

Does anyone know what has happened to the comm/news directory at
the above aminet site?. It seems to have disappered.

cheers

steve

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov  9 13:30:49 1994
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Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 09:50:47 -0600 (CST)
From: Robert J Goos <goos@badlands.NoDak.edu>
Subject: EASY AMOS WANTED
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
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Thanks for the many responses concerning Easy Amos.  I have called 
several mail-order houses and find that it is no longer available.  It is 
helpful to know that a version of Easy Amos will soon be available as a 
cover disk on a British magazine, but I fear that the version will not 
support NTSC or have adequate documentation.

Anyone got a complete NTSC version of Easy Amos (complete with all 
manuals, etc.)?  I'd pay about $15.

Thanks.

R. J. Goos
Fargo, ND


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov  9 14:49:14 1994
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Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 11:29:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: Jurgen Valks <J.VALKS@hsbos.nl>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: IntOS
In-Reply-To: <4773B02CB@ms2.hsbos.nl>
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On Wed, 9 Nov 1994, Jurgen Valks wrote:
> I just received a letter from a company who made a intuition extension,
> anybody out there who knows if it's any good ???
Well, if it isn't by Andrew Church it probably isn't as easy to use.  Other
than that, I have not heard of it.  Can you post the message?

Michael
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
             For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov  9 16:02:58 1994
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Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 17:56:03 GMT
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Organization: Fortune Software
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From: Dominic Ramsey <dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: CU Amiga
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Dave May wrote:

> Can anyone tell me the address for CU Amiga submissions dept.?
> 
> I need it for future reference, urgent.
> 
> Thanks!  - Dave May

CU Amiga,
Priory Court
30-32 Farringdon Lane
London EC1R 3AU

email: cuamiga@cix.compulink.co.uk

Dom

--
Dominic Ramsey      email: dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk
http://www.gate.net/user/play/people/dramsey.html

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov  9 16:44:50 1994
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Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 13:14:06 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: airTaxi demo
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411091505.A14998-0100000@indyunix.iupui.edu>
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To Roger L Waldrip:

I got no address from you in your Email.  I cannot respond to your 
request without the address.

Thanks,
Dave May, airTaxi author

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov  9 20:30:38 1994
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Path: news1.digex.net!uunet!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!oleane!pipex!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!uknet!festival!leeds.ac.uk!news
From: cszjmp@scs.leeds.ac.uk (J M Pierlejewski)
Subject: AMOS & MIDI Sysex
Message-Id: <1994Nov8.150310.19055@leeds.ac.uk>
Sender: news@leeds.ac.uk
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Organization: The University of Leeds, School of Computer Studies
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 15:03:09 +0000 (GMT)
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Status: RO
X-Status: 

I'm doing a midi-based final year project using AMOS on the amiga
I've got all the SYSEX messages I need, but I need to know how to
set up the serial device to send the data, and if I need to send
any preparation data before the sysex messages.

(I know the baud rate has to be 31250 and so far I have to set this up
 from workbench: really I want to do everything from within AMOS)

(Also the MIDI interface is part of an AMAS2 sampler)

Please mail me if you can help.

Thanks
JOE.


PS. Has anybody got a copy of INTOS (Intuition program for AMOS)
   
    Does anybody know where to get some sound editors for a yamaha tg-500?
    (ie. ftp sites)





From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov  9 20:49:35 1994
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From: s921878@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU (Daniel John Lee Parnell)
Message-Id: <9411092336.19769@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Inertia tutorial
To: amos-list@access.digex.net (amos Amos Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 10:36:41 +1100 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24]
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Forwarded message:

> Your statement is equal to say that wind is a radiation, or wave on the 
> sea is a form of radiation or a earthquake is a radiation. 
> They aren't! They are not pure energy (as radiation cerried by a 
> particle) but are related to the mass of the material where they are 
> moving through.

> Radiation exists everywhere, sound no. You cannot have sound in a vacuum 
> box, as it strictly depends on a mean (air, but not only) to move. 

  Sound is a form of radiation.  Radiation does not have to be electro-magnetic
to be called radiation.  For example, alpha and beta radiation are actually
particles.

	For something to be called radiation, bascially all it has to do
is radiate through space.  Even if the "radiation" needs a medium to travel
it can still be called radiation.

				Daniel

Daniel Parnell  -  Email to s921878@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au - AMIGA 500&600 1 MEG
 Second Year Applied Physics student at R.M.I.T. Melbourne Australia.   *:|()
   People who drink petrol shouldn't smoke.  AMOS 1.36 with Compiler and 3D
    Squaxx Dek Thargo from prog 579 - C64 Amiga Mac CCPM 6502 8086 - Forth 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 10 05:55:06 1994
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Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 10:00:44 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: ssumorti@reading.ac.uk
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.941109130901.16214A-100000(a)suma3>
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On Wed, 9 Nov 1994 ssumorti@reading.ac.uk wrote:

> 
> 
> On Wed, 9 Nov 1994, Marco Beretta wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, 8 Nov 1994 ssumorti@reading.ac.uk wrote:
> > 
> > > Hokay..
> > > 	Ive got a problem with corrupt AMOS files. I brought AMOS Pro V1.1, did some work and then got the PD updater to V2 (via stages). Thing is V2 is 
> > > refusing to load and V1.1 stuff. Nightmare.
> > > 
> > > 	Any ideas??
> > > 
> > How do you get the updater to v2.0?
> > 
> > M&F
> > 
> 
> I can not quite remember, But I think I brought the Updater disk from 
> Anne and Len Tucker.. They run an English AMOS group, and do nothoing but 
> AMOS PD and stuff. Its on an official disk.
> 
> steve

So if it is PD, can someone send a copy to me, please?

M&F

From aj639@kanga.INS.CWRU.Edu Thu Nov 10 11:02:49 1994
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Message-Id: <199411101602.LAA16782@kanga.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 11:02:31 -0500
From: aj639@cleveland.freenet.edu (Michael Cox)
To: mcox@access.digex.net
Subject: [ncw@pasture.bt.co.uk: Re: Disk Files]
Reply-To: aj639@cleveland.freenet.edu (Michael Cox)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

    ================= Begin forwarded message =================

    From: ncw@pasture.bt.co.uk (Nick Webb 645883 B83/129)
    To: amos-list@access.digex.net
    Subject: Re: Disk Files
    Date: Mon, 07 Nov

    
    I am a newcomer to AMOS, but would a neater solution be to use PRINT USING?  I 
    am not fully conversant with the syntax of it, but I believe you could use this 
    to prepend zeroes to the information being written to the file.
    
    Regards,
    
    Nick Webb  :-D
    UNIX:		ncw@pasture.bt.co.uk
    A600, 2.04
    
    
    

From aj639@kanga.INS.CWRU.Edu Thu Nov 10 11:03:48 1994
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Message-Id: <199411101603.LAA17256@kanga.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 11:03:45 -0500
From: aj639@cleveland.freenet.edu (Michael Cox)
To: mcox@access.digex.net
Subject: [martinp@visionware.co.uk: Re: Show/Hide]
Reply-To: aj639@cleveland.freenet.edu (Michael Cox)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

    ================= Begin forwarded message =================

    From: martinp@visionware.co.uk (Martin Powell)
    To: saylor@tcet.unt.edu (Matt Sayler)
    Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
    Subject: Re: Show/Hide
    Date: Mon, 07 Nov

    
    > 
    > What's with show and hide? Half (or more like 80%) of the time, they don't
    > work in my program. Right now I've solved the problem by using procedures
    > and for...next loops to repeat the commands 10 times. This isn't foolproof:
    > when I had it set to 5 times it didn't work a few times and I feel like its
    > just a matter of time with this. Any ideas!
    > 
    > Spam-235 / John Williams / saylor@tcet.unt.edu
    > "But if there's no Silicon Hell, where do all the Macintoshes go?"
    > 
    
    Same here,  I have had the same problem in Creator 1.36 
    
    I soled it by putting it into loops of 10!!!
    
    
    Regards
    
      Martin 
    
    -- 
    Martin Powell                               EMail: martinp@visionware.co.uk
    
                   #####\             _             /#####
                   #( )# |          _( )__         | #( )# 
                   ##### |         /_    /         | #####
                   #" "# |     ___m/I_ //_____     | #" "#
                   # O # |____#-x.\ /++m\ /.x-#____| # O #
                   #m.m# |   /" \ ///###\\\ / "\   | #m.m#
                   #####/    ######/     \######    \#####
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 10 12:39:02 1994
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Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:44:03 +0000
From: ryan nicholas d <91211448@brookes.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <9411101344.AA29960@csmail>
To: amos-request@svcs1.digex.net
Subject: PP-Packing in Amos
Content-Length: 197
Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 10:36:50 -0500 (EST)
Resent-From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
Resent-To: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Resent-Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941110103650.3848A@access3.digex.net>
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hi,
 
Now have I got an interesting problem here ...
 
  Does anyone know how to PP Pack (or any other reliable full data compressor),
an Amos bank ?
 
Cheers, Nick Ryan
 
(91211448@Brookes.ac.uk)


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 10 15:01:36 1994
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Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 15:47:28 GMT
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Organization: UltiMedia Graphics
X-Mailviewer: Mail 1.14
From: Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: AirTAXI
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hey ppl,

If you haven't got airtaxi yet, get it.
It's great, very addictive (Altough exiting level 5 of the demo is near
impossible:)
My only gripe is that when the taxi animates, the screen update/animations
glitch (stop and start) when different animations start.

If it wasn't for the glitches and the fact that I'll have to muck around
with oversees cheques, I'd register right away. As it is, it isn't at the
top of my *MUST REGISTER* list :(

Other than that, it's great game.

G.
--
Gareth D. Edwards, 25 Somerville Green, Leeds, West Yorkshire, England.  
E-Address: config@ultim.demon.co.uk
Web Home Page: http://www.gate.net/amos/play/people/GarethEdwards.html
Editor of the Seal FAQ and Future Love Paradise W3 site.

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 10 15:37:20 1994
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          Thu, 10 Nov 94 18:55 GMT
Message-Id: <m0r5eeT-0000YrC@doc.ic.ac.uk>
From: ph@doc.ic.ac.uk (Paul Hickman)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 18:55:17 +0000
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: 91211448@brookes.ac.uk, amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re:PP-Packing in Amos
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>Hi,
> 
>Now have I got an interesting problem here ...
> 
>  Does anyone know how to PP Pack (or any other reliable full data compressor),
>an Amos bank ?
> 
>Cheers, Nick Ryan
> 
>(91211448@Brookes.ac.uk)
>

Plug, plug, plug, plug, plug, plug, plug, plug....

Get me easylife extension - if provides support for powerpacker, and (better still)
XPK. Also, you'll get structured variables in AMOS & MUI support thrown in for free,
not that you were ever paying for it in the first place.

Add to that a host of useful accessory programs, including a variable checker that will
find bugs in your programs for you, its well worth the cost of FTP (Especially if you
are in a university and it costs nothing anyway). Download it:

ftpto: gate.net
login: ftp
passwd: <your email address>
path: /pub/amos/software/extensions
files: easylife108_p1.lha , easylife108_p2.lha

Each file extracts to a floppy disk, or you can extract them to seperate harddisk /
ramdisk directories (Which you must create). An installer script is provided for
harddisk & floppy disk users.

V1.09 which is under development includes an AMOS amigaguide file viewer, MagicWB
style icons for the whole AMOS directory, new font commands, and an amigaguide conversion
of all the AMOS on-line help, so you can ditch AMOSPro_Help.AMOS.

Is anyone interested in beta-testing this properly, rather than me just uploading
betas, and getting zero bug reports?

P.s. I'm currently extremely happy, as our computer support group has now NFS mounted the
src.doc.ic.ac.uk disk, which means I can access aminet with "cd aminet" - no more of this
FTP rubbish. (Smug Mode off).





From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 10 15:56:17 1994
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From: "C.J.COULSON" <C.J.Coulson@newcastle.ac.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date:          Thu, 10 Nov 1994 19:04:18 GMT0BST
Subject:       Those pesky disk files again
Priority: normal
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail/Windows v1.11
Message-Id: <166136321BD@TOWN4.ncl.ac.uk>
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Well, thanks for the replies to my original question, those
of you that came up with suggestions that is :-)

Unfortunately, it seems everyone took my problem
the wrong way, which in hindsight is probably my
fault, given the way I explained it. Oops.

The *real* problem I have with saving data to disk files
is this:

If I try saving an integer variable using Print #1,<variable>
then AMOS packs the variable up, so that if the value can
fit into a single byte, a single byte is written, if it`s a larger
value, more bytes are used. Additionally, a separator byte
is also written so you can tell one variable from another.

What I want to do is this:

Save ANY integer value as four bytes of data in the disk
file, with NO separator bytes.

So if I did this:

Print #1,a
Print #1,b
Print #1,c

where a=$1F, b=$DFF and c=$DFF101 for example, the
disk file would look like

0000001F 00000DFF 00DFF101, where the spaces indicate
the longword alignment.

Currently, AMOS does this (or something very similar):

1Fx0DFFxDFF101, where x is the separator byte.


So, now you have this revised information about my
problem, I`ll ask again.

Can AMOS/AMOS Pro write longwords to a disk file
directly, or do I have to write them to a memory bank
and then save the bank to disk??? I need to know,
because at the moment I have to allocate a 500KB
bank and I`d rather just push the data straight to
disk... (especially when I`ve got another 1MB of
data that needs to be in banks as well)

Just an aside, I could use a small bank as a buffer,
write so many longwords to the bank then save the
bank to disk, then refill the buffer, save the bank
again and then join the two files together. Seriously
messy, but it would reduce my memory overheads.
Alternatively, I could just scrap the AMOS code and
write the program in Pascal, but I`d like to give AMOS
a chance, and I can`t believe that AMOS isn`t capable
of writing to disk the way I want it to without having
to use all manner of backdoor approaches.


Thanks muchly

Chris
c.j.coulson@ncl.ac.uk
A4000/030/882 - 6/530


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 10 17:30:53 1994
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Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 13:25:12 GMT
Message-Id: <9411101325.AA004dq@dynamo.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Fortune Software
X-Mailviewer: Mail 1.12
From: Dominic Ramsey <dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AmiTCP anyone use it?
Status: RO
X-Status: 

"D. Davis" <dlincoln@iac.net> wrote:
 
> Michael Cox wrote...

> > I know, this isnot AMOS, but I am trying to setup AmiTCP for PPP and was
> > wondering if anyone can give me a hand?  Maybe I could work on writing
> > programs in AMOS that connect to the AMOS Web Site.  What is that URL
> > anyway?  I should add it to the FAQ and my .signature
> 
> If you find out let me know... I've been trying to get both ro work in 
> some combination for months... I used to have SLIP working but it just 
> stopped one day... I tried reinstalling, no luck, switching to PPP (a 
> more stable environment on Mac) still nothing.  I'd LOVE to have a 
> reliable IP connection for my amiga!

I use AmiTCP with SLIP which works fairly well (apart from a problem
with mail crashing and invalidating my hard disk occaisionally!). I'm
not an expert, but I'll try and help if I can.

Dom

--
Dominic Ramsey      email: dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk
http://www.gate.net/user/play/people/dramsey.html

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 10 19:20:21 1994
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	id AA07691; Thu, 10 Nov 1994 17:10:34 +0500
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 17:10:34 +0500
From: marty@cs.hope.edu (Ben Marty)
Message-Id: <9411102210.AA07691@pippin.cs.hope.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net, C.J.Coulson@newcastle.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Those pesky disk files again
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Content-Length: 154
Status: RO
X-Status: 

	About your file writing dillema, again I say, check into random access
files.  I think that will write numeric variables in fixed-length binary
format. 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 10 19:40:39 1994
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	id AA20129; Thu, 10 Nov 1994 15:30:00 -0700
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 15:29:45 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AirTAXI
In-Reply-To: <9411101547.AA001t8@ultim.demon.co.uk>
Message-Id: <Pine.ULT.3.90.941110152217.19982A-100000@cc.dixie.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: RO
X-Status: 



On Thu, 10 Nov 1994, Gareth Edwards wrote:

> Hey ppl,
> 
> If you haven't got airtaxi yet, get it.
> It's great, very addictive (Altough exiting level 5 of the demo is near
> impossible:)
> My only gripe is that when the taxi animates, the screen update/animations
> glitch (stop and start) when different animations start.
> 
> If it wasn't for the glitches and the fact that I'll have to muck around
> with oversees cheques, I'd register right away. As it is, it isn't at the
> top of my *MUST REGISTER* list :(
> 
> Other than that, it's great game.
> 
What speed is your computer operating at?  AMOS has real trouble dealing 
with the simplest of animations, for that reason airTaxi uses a unique 
frame timing method used in most flight simulators - and sometimes under 
different situations compiled AMOS code does not keep up with this timing 
routine.  There is a lot of integer math involved in the game, and tons 
of graphics :) I'm sure you would agree that if I wrote a version in 
Blitz Basic 2, it would be smoother.  But to other users out there, 
especially those with 33mhz+ or AGA, this game is worth checking out and 
hopefully worth registering :)

Thanks for your information.  I would like to know what system your using 
and anything else you want to tell me.

Dave May

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 10 20:27:36 1994
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	id AA20376; Thu, 10 Nov 1994 15:45:50 -0700
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 15:45:49 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: "C.J.COULSON" <C.J.Coulson@newcastle.ac.uk>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Those pesky disk files again
In-Reply-To: <166136321BD@TOWN4.ncl.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <Pine.ULT.3.90.941110153709.19982C-100000@cc.dixie.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Your disk file needs to be written like this:

Print #1,chr$((a and $FF000000)/$1000000)+chr$((a and $FF0000)/$10000)+...
      ...chr$((a and $FF00)/$100)+chr$(a and $FF);

Unfortunately, what you are doing is printing the ASCII representation of 
a number - your pad byte is an ASCII space.  If you Print #1,$102; your 
file will end up like:
" 258"

and is nothing like numerical value 258 though it is four bytes long!

Dave May

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 10 20:28:24 1994
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          id AA13952; Thu, 10 Nov 1994 17:25:39 -0500
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 17:25:39 -0500
From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411102225.AA13952@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Those pesky disk files again
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>What I want to do is this:
>
>Save ANY integer value as four bytes of data in the disk
>file, with NO separator bytes.
>
>So if I did this:
>
>Print #1,a
>Print #1,b
>Print #1,c
>
>where a=$1F, b=$DFF and c=$DFF101 for example, the
>disk file would look like
>
>0000001F 00000DFF 00DFF101, where the spaces indicate
>the longword alignment.

  OK, so you want to save binary data...

>Can AMOS/AMOS Pro write longwords to a disk file
>directly, or do I have to write them to a memory bank
>and then save the bank to disk??? I need to know,
>because at the moment I have to allocate a 500KB
>bank and I`d rather just push the data straight to
>disk... (especially when I`ve got another 1MB of
>data that needs to be in banks as well)

  You can write individual longwords (as of AMOS Pro, and, I think, Creator
1.36 as well) using the Ssave command:

Ssave 1,Varptr(VAR) To Varptr(VAR)+4

... but that's a bad idea, because each write (i.e. call to DOS) takes up a
*lot* of overhead.

>Just an aside, I could use a small bank as a buffer,
>write so many longwords to the bank then save the
>bank to disk, then refill the buffer, save the bank
>again and then join the two files together. Seriously
>messy, but it would reduce my memory overheads.

  That's better.  Reserve a bank of, say, 16k, write some data to it, Ssave
it to the file, and do it again.  So:

Reserve As Work 10,16384
For <all data>
   <fill bank>
   Ssave 1,Start(10) To Start(10)+Length(10)
Next

  An even better idea: if you're using arrays, just write each array to the
file, like so:

Ssave 1,Varptr(ARRAY1(0)) To Varptr(ARRAY1(LAST))+4
Ssave 1,Varptr(ARRAY2(0)) To Varptr(ARRAY2(LAST))+4
etc.

  To load the data, you just use Sload instead of Ssave.  Clear enough?

  --Andy Church

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Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 16:19:24 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: airTaxi speed
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GREETINGS AMOS USERS!

Those who have requested the airTaxi demo who have 14mhz may run into 
timing problems, especially when three or four players enter the game.  
AMOS simply cannot handle the mathematics (integers!) and slower-blitter 
Amigas can't handle all the graphics!  It would seem 25mhz users may also 
start to see problems with glitchy movement with 4 or 5players, if there 
is no cache capability in their CPU.  68030/040 is smooth all around even 
at 25mhz because of the caches, especially if these are on AGA machines 
(faster blitter).

I don't really know how we can keep up with the PCs any longer with such 
slow processors :(  - Dave May

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 11 10:28:57 1994
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Path: ion.apana.org.au!grn
From: grn@ion.apana.org.au (Geoffrey Newman)
Newsgroups: apana.lists.lang.amos
Subject: AMOS Web site
Date: 11 Nov 1994 10:13:04 GMT
Organization: Internet Online - on the APANA network in NSW Australia.
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Its URL please?


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 11 10:29:44 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 10:53:29 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Resource Bank Maker
To: amos-list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
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Hi boys,
I would know if someone uses grapfic interfaces for their program.
I so, did you use the Resource Bank maker?

I have upgraded it to version 2.3.
I has great features and it is able to use alse 640x512 screen now.

I want upload it today to Aminet, but I thinked to put in some examples.
One is the Default_Resource_Maker made by Paul Hickman which I have 
slightly modified (if he agrees).
The second resource is made by me. It is really good (I think). So have a 
look at it if you want build up a resource interface.

If you want I can create new banks (or images) for you. Just tell me what 
you need.

M&F

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 11 10:58:36 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 10:17:40 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Re: airTaxi speed
To: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
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On Thu, 10 Nov 1994, Dave May wrote:

> 
> GREETINGS AMOS USERS!
> 
> Those who have requested the airTaxi demo who have 14mhz may run into 
> timing problems, especially when three or four players enter the game.  
> AMOS simply cannot handle the mathematics (integers!) and slower-blitter 
> Amigas can't handle all the graphics!  It would seem 25mhz users may also 
> start to see problems with glitchy movement with 4 or 5players, if there 
> is no cache capability in their CPU.  68030/040 is smooth all around even 
> at 25mhz because of the caches, especially if these are on AGA machines 
> (faster blitter).
> 
> I don't really know how we can keep up with the PCs any longer with such 
> slow processors :(  - Dave May

Oh God!
Here the question...
better programming or faster processor?
I think if games such as Gunship2000, Syndicate, F1GP, Lemmings! run well 
on my Amiga 1200 (but also on a A500 were playable) also you program should.
If AMOS is crap or you cannot figure out how to solve animation problems...
I think it is not a processor fault!

M&F
 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 11 11:23:55 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 07:36:42 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: airTaxi speed
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411111037.G24306-0100000@varano.ing.unico.it>
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> Here the question...
> better programming or faster processor?
> I think if games such as Gunship2000, Syndicate, F1GP, Lemmings! run well 
> on my Amiga 1200 (but also on a A500 were playable) also you program should.
> If AMOS is crap or you cannot figure out how to solve animation problems...
> I think it is not a processor fault!
> 
> M&F

My complaint about the processors had nothing really to do with my 
programming.  AMOS is not crap and the "animation problem" you speak of 
was just the number of blitter objects on the screen, not bad programming!

I don't know where you get the idea that Gunship 2000 or Syndicate were 
playable on an A500 because they certainly weren't... and next to a 386 
or 486 my 4000/040 doesn't stand up when playing either of these games.

Lemmings does however have unbelieveable speed ... makes it so much more 
tempting to take up assembly.

Thanks for your comments! - You should try airTaxi anyway... Dave May

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 11 12:02:28 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 15:50:28 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Re: airTaxi speed
To: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
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> I don't know where you get the idea that Gunship 2000 or Syndicate were 
> playable on an A500 because they certainly weren't... and next to a 386 
> or 486 my 4000/040 doesn't stand up when playing either of these games.

What do you mean?
That 386 and 486 version of Syndicate are faster than Amiga version on the
A4000?

M&F


From mpierce@hpvclo.vcd.hp.com Fri Nov 11 13:21:59 1994
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From: Matt Pierce <mpierce@hpvclo.vcd.hp.com>
Message-Id: <9411111828.AA01710@hpvclo.vcd.hp.com>
Subject: Re: airTaxi speed
To: amos-request@svcs1.digex.net
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 10:28:58 PST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> 
> 
> GREETINGS AMOS USERS!
> 
> Those who have requested the airTaxi demo who have 14mhz may run into 
> timing problems, especially when three or four players enter the game.  
> AMOS simply cannot handle the mathematics (integers!) and slower-blitter 
> Amigas can't handle all the graphics!  It would seem 25mhz users may also 
> start to see problems with glitchy movement with 4 or 5players, if there 
> is no cache capability in their CPU.  68030/040 is smooth all around even 
> at 25mhz because of the caches, especially if these are on AGA machines 
> (faster blitter).
> 
> I don't really know how we can keep up with the PCs any longer with such 
> slow processors :(  - Dave May
>

Better algorithms.

Matt Pierce 


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 11 13:31:30 1994
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	id AA784576970 Fri, 11 Nov 94 10:02:50 
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 10:02:50 
From: RHARVEY@farradyne.com
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Subject: Gotta go.
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Hello,
   I am leaving my job and my access to internet.
 I have been a passive participant and have learned
 alot. I would like to leave giving a few suggestions
 for AMOS 3.0

 I'm not sure you should make it OS 2.0+
 compatible. There is still a number of 1.3
 systems out there. Mine included. I have a 500
 (alot of us out here). With commodore dead at the
 moment and when they get bought out by whoever.
 It will still be a while before production is up. I like
 many people (I believe) want to wait a good while
 before making any decissions to upgrade. Many 
 people are content with there 500's and see no
 reason to upgrade. Almost all software runs on there
 machines. There is such a installed base software
 vendors rarely make a 2.0+ product. Try to keep
 AMOS available to all users. I believe that this
 is AMOS's best chance for the future. At some
 point you will want to drop 1.3 BUT wait until
 that loss is not significant.

 Thanx,
      Robert Harvey

 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 11 14:56:54 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 18:17:44 +0100
From: Christian Mumenthaler <mumi@mol.biol.ethz.ch>
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To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Inertia tutorial - an example!
Status: RO
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Hello everybody!

I see that the original discussion about an
extension for inertia, gravity and the like has
turned into a physical discussion about sound
waves (are they radiation or not, that's the 
question? ;-) )

Well, to be a bit more helpful for the people
who originally wanted to know how to program 
something like LUNAR LANDER, I have decided to 
write a little program who demonstrates how such
a thing could be done.
If I remember correctly, two persons have given
good and clear answers for the programing of
vertical motion/acceleration. The new thing here
is that one can turn around the "space ship" and
that the problem is now a two-dimensional one with
also the acceleration vector having two components.
The program looks longer than it really is because I
have included lots of comments.
I hope that nobody will be angry and tell me I'm wasting
bandwidth. If you have questions, feel free to email
me personally.

Regards,

	Chris

PS: Use the joystick in port 2 to turn the ship. Press
the fire button to accelerate.

-------------------------8<------------------------------
'  
' The following program demonstates in a primitive way 
' how a simple 'lunar lander' game could be programed in 
' AMOS 
'
Curs Off 
Paper 0
Cls 
'
' There will be 16 different positions of
' our spaceship: 
'
SHIPPOS=16
'
' We now create 16 primitive drawings for the
' different ship positions and store them as Icons 
' 1 to 32. 
' Image 1 shows the ship in vertical position (pointing
' to the top of screen and all following are designed by 
' clockwise rotation). 
' The first 16 images contain all positions of the 
' space ship without acceleration  and the icons 
' 17 to 32 show the ship WITH acceleration.  
' Of course, the programmer would better paint these 
' icons in a paint program! ;-)
' Of course, you can use bobs, sprites or whatever.
' They will be better for the collision checking.
'
For J=0 To 1
   For H=0 To SHIPPOS-1
      W#=H
      W#=(W#*(2.0*Pi#))/SHIPPOS
      Draw 5,5 To 5+5*Sin(W#),5-5*Cos(W#)
      Draw 5,5 To 5-5*Sin(W#),5+5*Cos(W#)
      If J=1
         Circle 5-5*Sin(W#),5+5*Cos(W#),3
      End If 
      Get Icon H+1+J*SHIPPOS,0,0 To 10,10
      Cls 
   Next H
Next J
Make Icon Mask 
'
' We now set the intial position as well 
' as gravity force 
'
XP=100
YP=10
GRAVITY=9
VX=0
VY=0
AX=0
AY=0
'
' P always contains the actual Icon number.
'
P=1
'
' Main loop
'
Do 
   '
   ' In a game you will have to use double buffering. 
   ' In this simple program I just clear the screen 
   ' instead. 
   '
   Cls 
   SPEED=Sqr(VX*VX+VY*VY)
   Print "speed:";Str$(SPEED)+"    "
   Paste Icon XP,YP,P
   '
   ' if ship was accelerated (icon number p>shippos)
   ' then give give back unaccelerated picture
   '
   If P>SHIPPOS
      Add P,-SHIPPOS
   End If 
   J=Joy(1)
   '
   ' Turn right 
   ' (Increase the Icon number by one and set it to one if
   '  it was 16!) 
   '
   If Btst(3,J)=True
      Inc P
      If P=SHIPPOS+1
         P=1
      End If 
   End If 
   '  
   ' Turn left
   ' (Decrease icon number!)
   '
   If Btst(2,J)=True
      Dec P
      If P=0
         P=SHIPPOS
      End If 
   End If 
   '  
   ' Fire=accelerate! 
   ' If fire is not pressed, the acceleration of the
   ' spaceship is set to zero.
   '
   If Btst(4,J)=True
      W#=(P-1)*2.0*Pi#
      W#=W#/SHIPPOS
      AX=30.0*Sin(W#)
      AY=-30.0*Cos(W#)
      Add P,SHIPPOS
   Else 
      AX=0
      AY=0
   End If 
   '
   ' First, the gravity force has to be added to
   ' the accelaration in Y direction. Then, the 
   ' speed vector is updated and finally the
   ' position is updated. 
   ' The division with 80 (or any large number) is
   ' necessary to slow down all motions.
   ' (Try to change it!)
   '
   Add AY,GRAVITY
   Add VX,AX
   Add VY,AY
   Add XP,VX/80
   Add YP,VY/80
   '
   ' The following lines limit the speed to 300 
   ' in each direction. They are not absolutely necessary.  
   ' Note that for a realistic situation it is not the
   ' individual speed directions that should be limited,
   ' but the real speed Sqr(vx*vx+vy*vy)! 
   '
   If Abs(VX)>300
      VX=Sgn(VX)*300
   End If 
   If Abs(VY)>300
      VY=Sgn(VY)*300
   End If 
   '
   ' The following lines limit the accessible area to the 
   ' visible screen 
   '
   YP=Max(10,Min(YP,190))
   XP=Max(0,Min(XP,300))
   '
   ' The program could now perform other calculations 
   ' (enemy movement!)  
   '
   Wait 2
Loop 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 11 16:01:33 1994
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Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 21:21:01 -0500 (EST)
From: sfmcnally@BIX.com
Subject: Re: PP-Packing in Amos
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
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If you have the Amos Compiler, you can use it's compression command to
pack any bank except a Sprite or Icon bank.

Seumas @ Dark Unicorn Productions
(sfmcnally@bix.com)

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 11 17:31:38 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 19:57:24 +0000 (GMT)
From: "S. Mortimer" <ssumorti@reading.ac.uk>
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Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
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Thanks for the info on my "Corrupt" amos proggies.. Ill give it a go.

As fot eh Updater... Ill recheck it, and if its PD, Ill whack it onto the 
net.

Steve

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 11 18:12:04 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 20:00:50 +0000 (GMT)
From: "S. Mortimer" <ssumorti@reading.ac.uk>
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My comments on AMOS 3.0

AGA is needed.
Intuition supports gotta come soon
Speed is also needed.
FUNCTIONS!!!!!!! - the pasky Param function is a pile of dingos kidnies!

ie
Function Square[numer] : Result
result=number*number
End Funct

so  a=Square[6] means a=36


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 11 22:21:37 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 00:01:53 GMT
From: Avatar@turing.demon.co.uk (Dominic Ludlam)
Reply-To: Avatar@turing.demon.co.uk
Message-Id: <977@turing.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS Pro Bad Disks
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In message <9411091322.AA17322@sauron.cs.hope.edu> Ben Marty writes:
> > Well I bought my AMOS Pro Sometime ago. When I tried to Install
> > the software I had nothing but read error on the SYSTEM Disk.
> > I sent the all the disks back to th UK. 3 and a hal month later
> > AMOS PRO finally returned. I atempted to Install the software again
> > but to my nightmare it seemed that all but the system Disk had write
> > error on them. I called UK. Again and they informed me to send them back.
> > Well I finally received them back from UK. You gessed it the SYSTEM Disk
> > has nothing but read errors again. It has been a total of 7 month and I
> > have not yet been able to start programing with AMOS. Is there a place I
> > can send the Disks too instead uf UK. It seems I have nothing but bad luck
> > with them. Thanks Programmers BLUES.
> 
> 	Someone back me up on this, but perhaps you need your drives
> re-aligned or cleaned or something.  Even if all your disks work, it may
> only be because those are the disks that are used with those drives all the
> time or they were formatted by those drives.  Try finding someone else with
> an Amiga and then try the following two things:
> 1. See if their Amiga can read the AMOS Pro disks.
> 2. If it can, have them try to copy the contents of the "bad" disks to disks
>    that were formatted on your computer.
> 
> 	On the other hand, maybe UK just has pathetic quality control.
> 
> 

  When I first got my AMOSPro disks, the System disk and the tutorial disk
  was corrupt.  I sent all my disks back to Europress software, waited a whole
  month and got my disks back.  But the Tutorial disk was still corrupt.
  I wrote back to them saying that I was close to writing to some magazines
  telling them about Europresses awful service.  I got a reply from them
  three days later with all my disks perfect!

-- 
Dominic Ludlam

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sat Nov 12 13:12:34 1994
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From: saylor@tcet.unt.edu (Matt Sayler)
Message-Id: <9411121630.AA115205@tcet.unt.edu>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: ssumorti@reading.ac.uk (S. Mortimer)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 94 10:30:03 CST
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
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> My comments on AMOS 3.0
> 
> AGA is needed.
> Intuition supports gotta come soon
> Speed is also needed.
> FUNCTIONS!!!!!!! - the pasky Param function is a pile of dingos kidnies!
> 
> Function Square[numer] : Result
> result=number*number
> End Funct
> 
> so  a=Square[6] means a=36

Pascal freak!!! Besides, the colon already has a meaning in AMOS,
and if you really want to get picky, you should use:

Function SQUARE[n]
  SQUARE=n*n
End Func

of if you want to be more like C (and AMOS), just use to old procedure
syntax and retain Param for backward compatability, but also do a
function-style return.

ie

Procedure SQUARE[n]
End Proc[n*n]

so that you could say

?SQUARE[n] or SQUARE[n] : ?Param

While we're on the subject of improvemnts, how about a kind of block
(Begin..End?) that doesn't do anything, but can be nested and closed.
I'm thinking something like:

Begin This is a comment about these procedures
  ...procedure declarations...
End


Spam-235 / John Williams / saylor@tcet.unt.edu
"But if there's no Silicon Hell, where do all the Macintoshes go?"


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sat Nov 12 16:14:43 1994
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Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 12:47:14 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: airTaxi speed
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9411111528.B3009-9100000@varano.ing.unico.it>
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On Fri, 11 Nov 1994, Marco Beretta wrote:

> 
> 
> > I don't know where you get the idea that Gunship 2000 or Syndicate were 
> > playable on an A500 because they certainly weren't... and next to a 386 
> > or 486 my 4000/040 doesn't stand up when playing either of these games.
> 
> What do you mean?
> That 386 and 486 version of Syndicate are faster than Amiga version on the
> A4000?
> 
> M&F
> 
> 
That's right, and it's at double the resolution of the Amiga version (the 
386 was at 50mhz though).  More weapons, pre- and post-game animations, 
sound during the animations, and a cleaner game all around.  Plus since 
it's not PC it only works in NTSC.  Sorry, they got more than we do on 
this game.

Dave May

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sat Nov 12 18:17:28 1994
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Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 16:25:20 -0500
From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411122125.AA16061@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: your mail
Status: RO
X-Status: 

[...]

>> FUNCTIONS!!!!!!! - the pasky Param function is a pile of dingos kidnies!
>> 
>> Function Square[numer] : Result
>> result=number*number
>> End Funct
>> 
>> so  a=Square[6] means a=36
>
>Pascal freak!!! Besides, the colon already has a meaning in AMOS,
>and if you really want to get picky, you should use:

[...]

>While we're on the subject of improvemnts, how about a kind of block
>(Begin..End?) that doesn't do anything, but can be nested and closed.
>I'm thinking something like:
>
>Begin This is a comment about these procedures
>  ...procedure declarations...
>End

  Were you just mentioning something about a Pascal freak? :-)  Anyway,
what's the point?  And End already has a meaning in AMOS; namely, ending
a program.

  --Andy Church

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sun Nov 13 13:56:51 1994
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Date: Sun, 13 Nov 1994 10:53:57 +0500
From: marty@cs.hope.edu (Ben Marty)
Message-Id: <9411131553.AA25318@sauron.cs.hope.edu>
To: Shinobi@ckbbs.tor.hookup.net, amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Playfield!
Content-Length: 67
Status: RO
X-Status: 

	Yeah, where are these Playfield issues anyway?  Did "we" give up?

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 14 01:11:52 1994
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Date: Sun, 13 Nov 1994 17:30:48 -0600
From: Christopher C Burke <cb7388@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu>
Message-Id: <199411132330.AA03263@cehpx9.cen.uiuc.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net, root@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: your mail
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>[...]
>
>>> FUNCTIONS!!!!!!! - the pasky Param function is a pile of dingos kidnies
>>> 
>>> Function Square[numer] : Result
>>> result=number*number
>>> End Funct
>>> 
>>> so  a=Square[6] means a=36
>>
>>Pascal freak!!! Besides, the colon already has a meaning in AMOS,
>>and if you really want to get picky, you should use:
>
>[...]
>
>>While we're on the subject of improvemnts, how about a kind of block
>>(Begin..End?) that doesn't do anything, but can be nested and closed.
>>I'm thinking something like:
>>
>>Begin This is a comment about these procedures
>>  ...procedure declarations...
>>End
>
>  Were you just mentioning something about a Pascal freak? :-)  Anyway,
>what's the point?  And End already has a meaning in AMOS; namely, ending
>a program.
>
>  --Andy Church

I agree.  You could simply use labels to accomplish that.  I start the main
block of code in my programs with the label "MAIN:" and end it with, well,
End.  :
- Christopher Burke
  burke@uiuc.edu
  N9UIN
Z[?6c.

From mystic@tlti.tokem.fi Mon Nov 14 06:26:30 1994
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From: Petri Hakkinen <mystic@tlti.tokem.fi>
Subject: Re: PP-Packing in Amos
To: ryan nicholas d <91211448@brookes.ac.uk>
Cc: amos-request@svcs1.digex.net
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> Hi,
>  
> Now have I got an interesting problem here ...
>  
>   Does anyone know how to PP Pack (or any other reliable full data compressor),
> an Amos bank ?

There are PP Load & PP Save commands in the Amos Pro Compiler extension 
which may be what you are looking for.
I don't know how reliable they're thought. As far as I know, PP isn't very
fast when decrunching a file size about 500k, does anybody know a faster
packing method?

Petri Hakkinen
mystic@tlti.tokem.fi


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 14 10:36:13 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 11:39:04 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Re: airTaxi speed
To: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <Pine.ULT.3.90.941112124500.13411A-100000@cc.dixie.edu>
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> That's right, and it's at double the resolution of the Amiga version (the 
> 386 was at 50mhz though).  More weapons, pre- and post-game animations, 
> sound during the animations, and a cleaner game all around.  Plus since 
> it's not PC it only works in NTSC.  Sorry, they got more than we do on 
> this game.

Well, maybe I had a special version of Synicate or my old A500+ was a 4000
and I never understood it.
I have seen Syndicate on a 386 16MHz! It ran twice (or more) slower than
on my A500 at 7MHz (yes at half the resoulution). On my A500 was slow but
not umplayable.
On my A1200 it run at the maximum speed. The first missions are even too fast!
I have presentation (with sounns), animation (without sounds).
I have not seen new weapon on the PC version, but it should be. But MY
version of syndicate was on 4 disks and I played it from floppy (and still
I do that!).
So, if you are really able to program you can obtain something good. If
your excuses are "Ooohhh, waht a slow processor" I can tell you these things:
- You seems to be Id Software (and it's not a compliment) which said the
Amiga graphics is to slow and other programmers made stunning demo of
texturized tunnels on a plain 1200!
- Just buy a C64 and see what was albe to do. See GEOS and then watch
Windows... or watch the OLD Elite or the excellent Last Ninja II!
- Watch Blue Byte Settlers (for the Amiga) and then ask yourself "how they
could obtain that perfection on this slow machine?"

Finally... I can play F1GP on a A500 faster than on the 386... have you
played it? Did you feel it was TOO slow to be unplayable?

M&F


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 14 12:01:57 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 13:24:54 +0200 (EET)
From: Petri Hakkinen <mystic@tlti.tokem.fi>
Subject: Re: AirTAXI
To: Amos list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <9411101547.AA001t8@ultim.demon.co.uk>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.87.9411141354.C21741-0100000@tlti>
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> 
> If you haven't got airtaxi yet, get it.
> It's great, very addictive (Altough exiting level 5 of the demo is near
> impossible:) ....

Ok, If it's really so great, I'll check it out.
But where can I find it? Is it in Aminet? 
Or can someone just send it uuencoded to me?

Thank you.

Petri Hakkinen
mystic@tlti.tokem.fi


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 14 12:03:57 1994
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From: Frank Busborg <dux@iesd.auc.dk>
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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 13:20:37 +0100
Message-Id: <199411141220.NAA00937@galilei.iesd.auc.dk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Amos Pro advantages?
Status: RO
X-Status: 


Hello there!

I am presently programming in an old 1.3 version of Amos the creator.
I feel that it provides a wide list of commands, but could of course
also see the need for some improvements.

Q) Is there any heavy arguments for upgrading to Amos Pro. ?

Q) What sort of new commands and possibilities does Amos Pro provide?

Q) When will Amos Pro 3.0 be released?

I hope you will give a detailed answer to my questions!

-----
Dux


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 14 13:19:34 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 12:29:58 +0000
From: ryan nicholas d <91211448@brookes.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <9411141229.AA20996@csmail>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re. PP Packing banks
Content-Length: 247
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Hi,
 
   Cheers for all the suggestions/solutions to PP Packing a bank,
 
 I've got Easy-Life now, and one of these Millenia, I'll purchase the
Pro-Compiler too!
 
 
Cheers, Nick
 
(91211448@Brookes.ac.uk)
 
Marlow - WOW! what a football team ...

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 14 13:32:07 1994
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From: Frank Busborg <dux@iesd.auc.dk>
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To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Suggestions to Amos Pro 3.0
Cc: dux@iesd.auc.dk
Status: RO
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   ---From: Frank Busborg <dux@iesd.auc.dk>
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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 13:52:16 +0100
Message-Id: <199411141252.NAA00981@galilei.iesd.auc.dk>
To: team@clare.tased.edu.au
Subject: Suggestions to Amos Pro 3.0

As you can see from the above I first send the letter to team@clare.tased.edu.au
But I got an error from the MAiler-DAAMON, so now I send it to amos-list, then
perhaps someone would know how to redirect the letter to the desired address.

Hello Team!

I read that any suggestions or thoughts of improvements were to be send
to this address.

My experience is limited to Amos the creator so perhaps some of
the following suggestions are irrelevant - then just ignore them!

1)
I would appreciate the possibility of having subprocedures in a 
procedure, so that it enables you to fold the procedure with all its
subprocedures into the representation of the main procedure name in one line.
(it would also be a sort of information-hidding).

2) A better structure for the variables in Amos.
   I am sort of a fan of Pascals way of handling data structures.

   I like the idea of first having to declare your different data types, 
   variables and constants. 
   In this way your program would also automatically detect a programming error,   if you instead of the reel variable `number# ` accidently
   write `number` - which would normally just be understood like a 
   declarence of a new variable in the program.

   It would be nice if you could build your own data types like
   example:
   First Type declarations :
   clientstype = record
	           name   : string
		   id     : integer
                   capital: integer
                 end
    bankclienttype = 1 to 1000 of clientstype
 
    Then Variables declarations  :

    Bank1 = bankclienttype
    
    And then the Main Program :
    initialisation -

     Bank1[1].name=firstclient
     Bank1[1].id  =1
     Bank1[1].capital = 10000000 (=very rich man - ha ha) 
     ... 
    End of Example
    The initialisation of the clients of the bank would be very
    easy to handle with a for - next, if you would like to input
    some test data, which emphasizes the power of this kind of structure.

    These suggestions were what I had in mind for now...
    I would appreciate if you would kindly comment my suggestions. Thanks!


----
Dux



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 14 13:37:00 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 14:45:13 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: WordProcessor in AMOS
To: amos-list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
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I would like to know if someone is interested in developing a simple word 
processor. 
I need help. I anyone interested?
I want real help. I need someone who would receive code, watch it, recode 
it and send it back to me... lots of times.
Does anyone has simple code in AMOS of a wordprocessor. None of you has 
written it before (for its own use).

M&F

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 14 15:44:20 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 13:18:14 +0200 (EET)
From: Petri Hakkinen <mystic@tlti.tokem.fi>
Subject: Re: PP-Packing in Amos
To: ryan nicholas d <91211448@brookes.ac.uk>
Cc: amos-request@svcs1.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <9411101344.AA29960@csmail>
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> Hi,
>  
> Now have I got an interesting problem here ...
>  
>   Does anyone know how to PP Pack (or any other reliable full data compressor),
> an Amos bank ?

There are PP Load & PP Save commands in the Amos Pro Compiler extension 
which may be what you are looking for.
I don't know how reliable they're thought. As far as I know, PP isn't very
fast when decrunching a file size about 500k, does anybody know a faster
packing method?

Petri Hakkinen
mystic@tlti.tokem.fi



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 14 17:46:47 1994
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From: Kimmo Veijalainen <Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi>
Message-Id: <199411141803.UAA18700@liero.cc.lut.fi>
Subject: Amos Pro advantages?
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 20:03:54 +0200 (EET)
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Forwarded message:

> Hello there!
> 
> I am presently programming in an old 1.3 version of Amos the creator.
> I feel that it provides a wide list of commands, but could of course
> also see the need for some improvements.
> 
> Q) Is there any heavy arguments for upgrading to Amos Pro. ?

AmosPro has _excellent_ editor.

> Q) What sort of new commands and possibilities does Amos Pro provide?

Not much. Everything AmosPro has (well, almost) can be added to Amos1.3 
via extensions.

> Q) When will Amos Pro 3.0 be released?

???? What? If someone knows something about AmosPro 3.0, email me.

BTW - I've tried to unsubscribe TWICE. Why didn't it work?


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 14 17:47:42 1994
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From: Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au (Darryl Lewis)
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: uuencode
Status: RO
X-Status: A

HI all,
Can anyone help me out with a copy of uuencode?
I have I version (which I use to decode files) but it encodes then to the
screen, making it usless to me. I need it saved to a file so I can upload
it to my local BBS then to the net.
I found another version but it only works on machine with WB2+. I have 1.3
:-(

So,
I need a version of uuencode that works on WB1.3, and saves it to a file.
Can any one help. Send it to me please. I accept it encoded as uuencoded.

Confused?
Darryl

-- Via DLG Pro v1.0


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 14 18:05:25 1994
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	id AA01834; Mon, 14 Nov 1994 11:55:50 -0700
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 11:55:48 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: airTaxi speed
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9411141103.D11068-b100000@varano.ing.unico.it>
Message-Id: <Pine.ULT.3.90.941114114454.1370C-100000@cc.dixie.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: RO
X-Status: 

I agree a 386 at 16mhz is a sad sight.  Especially running Windows.

I also think ID software made a big mistake not trying to implement their 
graphics engine on the Amiga.  Perhaps some of the independent Amiga 
competitors (Poom !!!) will outdo our PC "enemies".

Do you know anyone with an Amiga display >=800x600 no interlace?  From 
what I have heard resolutions such as 1024x768 ni are possible on AGA 
Amigas, given the right monitor and new 3.1 software...?

Once again my complaint with processors had nothing to do with my 
programming, okay?  I programmed airTaxi to the optimum for AMOS and the 
results weren't there, and I still wonder if BlitzBasic would allow me to 
have a faster overall game... Nevertheless, I still hope that the new 
Amiga owners and engineers will allow with or without third party 
intervention some faster processing speed, so I can have results for ME 
and not necessarily the owners of low-ends like unexpanded 500/2000s.

Dave May

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 14 18:18:17 1994
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	id AA02121; Mon, 14 Nov 1994 12:08:23 -0700
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 12:08:22 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: airTaxi problems
Message-Id: <Pine.ULT.3.90.941114120029.1921A-100000@cc.dixie.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: RO
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GREETINGS AMOS USERS:

I have encountered problems sending the uuencoded version of my airTaxi 
demo because my mail client forces the use of MIME encoding.  Sometimes I 
wonder if under all the DMS/UUCP/MIME/BASE64 encoding if there is any 
data left in the file (which grows from 380k to over 780k)!

So please do not request the demo if you don't have MIME-aware tools at 
your server's mail client or otherwise.  If you can find me on the EFnet 
IRC at the #amiga channel (nickname Talon), perhaps sending you the DMS 
there will be easier.

I also would appreciate certain users to stop picking at my programming 
in private and public.  I am providing a service here and I am not 
hurting anyone or their machine when they play my game.  Suggestions and 
bug reports are okay, but I don't want to hear "your game is an Ugh! 
ripoff" because that doesn't help my programming ability nor does it 
encourage or support my efforts, AMOS or not.

Thanks,
Dave May

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 14 18:25:36 1994
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Date: 14 Nov 1994 19:09:23 +0000
From: "J.A.Warner (Jonathan Warner)" <J.A.Warner@open.ac.uk>
Subject: Amiga Shopper Chess
Return-Receipt-To: "J.A.Warner (Jonathan Warner)" <J.A.Warner@open.ac.uk>
To: AMOS List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I bought Amiga Shopper this month for the first time in ages, and found that
they are programming a chess game in AMOS and C. Has anybody on this list got
the first instalment of this, and typed in the code already? The first
instalment was just the business of setting up the board, which I suppose I
could do anyway, but I would be very grateful if someone who had the listing to
hand could send it to me.

Unless Amiga Shopper have the good sense to release the listing on a cover disk
soon.

Thanks,

Jonathan

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 14 18:54:23 1994
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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 15:39:04 -0500
From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411142039.AA26927@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Suggestions to Amos Pro 3.0
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>As you can see from the above I first send the letter to team@clare.tased.edu.au
>But I got an error from the MAiler-DAAMON, so now I send it to amos-list, then
>perhaps someone would know how to redirect the letter to the desired address.

  Whoops, that should be adt@clare.tased.edu.au.

>I would appreciate the possibility of having subprocedures in a 
>procedure, so that it enables you to fold the procedure with all its
>subprocedures into the representation of the main procedure name in one line.
>(it would also be a sort of information-hidding).

  That could be done, but I don't see a lot of need for it - you can just
separate your procedure declarations into sections.

>2) A better structure for the variables in Amos.
>   I am sort of a fan of Pascals way of handling data structures.
[...]

  Structured variables are definitely going to make an appearance in the
(relatively) near future - i.e. shortly after we fix all the bugs.

  --Andy Church
    AMOS Development Team

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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 15:45:44 -0500
From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411142045.AA24630@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Amos Pro advantages?
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>I am presently programming in an old 1.3 version of Amos the creator.
>I feel that it provides a wide list of commands, but could of course
>also see the need for some improvements.
>
>Q) Is there any heavy arguments for upgrading to Amos Pro. ?

  There are arguments both for and against.  Pro is more powerful than
Creator, and Pro is the only one being developed.  However, Creator 1.36
has been reported as more stable than Pro 2.0 (the latest version).

>Q) What sort of new commands and possibilities does Amos Pro provide?

  All sorts of stuff... MED music support, "dialog" programs (analogous
to Intuition Requesters), a Monitor for debugging programs, and more.

>Q) When will Amos Pro 3.0 be released?

  After version 2.1, or however many versions we need to get rid of the
bugs in 2.0.

  --Andy Church

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 14 20:49:53 1994
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From: saylor@tcet.unt.edu (Matt Sayler)
Message-Id: <9411142324.AA146773@tcet.unt.edu>
Subject: Re: Suggestions to Amos Pro 3.0
To: dux@iesd.auc.dk (Frank Busborg)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 17:24:38 CST
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <199411141303.OAA00997@galilei.iesd.auc.dk>; from "Frank Busborg" at Nov 14, 94 02:03:24 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL17]
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> 1)
> I would appreciate the possibility of having subprocedures in a 
> procedure, so that it enables you to fold the procedure with all its
> subprocedures into the representation of the main procedure name in one line.
> (it would also be a sort of information-hidding).

This sounds quite useful. I have often wanted this feature.

> 2) A better structure for the variables in Amos.
>    I am sort of a fan of Pascals way of handling data structures.
> 
>    I like the idea of first having to declare your different data types, 
>    variables and constants. 

I happen to hate many aspects of Pascal. One of them is the way things are
declared (ie declaring a record type in one section and the var in another.)
I do support explicit variable declation, but I think C handles it much
better then Pascal. Perhaps we need a command like Set Explicit Declaration
so that old programs can still use implicit declartion (and so that you
don't have to make declartions in programs where this would be overkill.

>    In this way your program would also automatically detect a programming error,   if you instead of the reel variable `number# ` accidently
>    write `number` - which would normally just be understood like a 
>    declarence of a new variable in the program.
> 
>    It would be nice if you could build your own data types like
>    example:
>    First Type declarations :
>    clientstype = record
> 	           name   : string
> 		   id     : integer
>                    capital: integer
>                  end
>     bankclienttype = 1 to 1000 of clientstype
>  
>     Then Variables declarations  :
> 
>     Bank1 = bankclienttype
>     
>     And then the Main Program :
>     initialisation -
> 
>      Bank1[1].name=firstclient
>      Bank1[1].id  =1
>      Bank1[1].capital = 10000000 (=very rich man - ha ha) 
>      ... 
>     End of Example
>     The initialisation of the clients of the bank would be very
>     easy to handle with a for - next, if you would like to input
>     some test data, which emphasizes the power of this kind of structure.
> 
>     These suggestions were what I had in mind for now...
>     I would appreciate if you would kindly comment my suggestions. Thanks!

While your at it, why not at real pointers (using * and & operators insted
of Varptr(), Leek() and Loke? This would be very useful, especially if you
could pass pointers as function parameters (like VAR parameters in Pascal).
I would also like arrays with [] and procedures with (), but this, like
a lot of the propositions in the message, would be a fundamental change
to AMOS that could easily destroy backward compatability or make the
interpereter slow. Maybe this would be best. AMOS 3 could be compiled-only
and come with a translater to updates the files (like MS QBasic has a trans-
lator for GW Basic files). If you wanted to go even futher, you could
make AMOS based on C instead of Basic, but I don't think that would be
popular, and the post is too long anywak so I'll just end it.

Spam-235 / John Williams / saylor@tcet.unt.edu
"But if there's no Silicon Hell, where do all the Macintoshes go?"



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 15 03:10:13 1994
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From: Janne Kalliola <plastic@snakemail.hut.fi>
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Subject: Re: Suggestions to Amos Pro 3.0
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 08:24:11 +0200 (EET)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 5283      
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Forwarded message:
> From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 15 04:32:01 1994
> From: saylor@tcet.unt.edu (Matt Sayler)
> Message-Id: <9411142324.AA146773@tcet.unt.edu>
> Subject: Re: Suggestions to Amos Pro 3.0
> To: dux@iesd.auc.dk (Frank Busborg)
> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 17:24:38 CST
> Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
> In-Reply-To: <199411141303.OAA00997@galilei.iesd.auc.dk>; from "Frank Busborg" at Nov 14, 94 02:03:24 pm
> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL17]
> 
> > 1)
> > I would appreciate the possibility of having subprocedures in a 
> > procedure, so that it enables you to fold the procedure with all its
> > subprocedures into the representation of the main procedure name in one line.
> > (it would also be a sort of information-hidding).
> 
> This sounds quite useful. I have often wanted this feature.

It's very useful, I have used that feature a lot when programming with Lisp.
> 
> > 2) A better structure for the variables in Amos.
> >    I am sort of a fan of Pascals way of handling data structures.
> > 
> >    I like the idea of first having to declare your different data types, 
> >    variables and constants. 
> 
> I happen to hate many aspects of Pascal. One of them is the way things are
> declared (ie declaring a record type in one section and the var in another.)
> I do support explicit variable declation, but I think C handles it much
> better then Pascal. Perhaps we need a command like Set Explicit Declaration
> so that old programs can still use implicit declartion (and so that you
> don't have to make declartions in programs where this would be overkill.
> 
Why you have to declare variables. AMOS and AMOS Pro has excellent
variable space idea and you shoul not forget that AMOS is a basic and
the idea of basic don't include any declarations. If we add all kinds of
"nice" things to AMOS, it won't be basic, pascal, C or anything, it'll be
a collection of instructions and functions without any guidelines.

> >    In this way your program would also automatically detect a programming error,   if you instead of the reel variable `number# ` accidently
> >    write `number` - which would normally just be understood like a 
> >    declarence of a new variable in the program.

Instead of declaration, there should be (and there's one) program, which
checks variables. The program could give warnings when there's variables,
which are only compared, they are only on the left or on the right side of
an expression, they are mentioned only once....

> >    It would be nice if you could build your own data types like
> >    example:
> >    First Type declarations :
> >    clientstype = record
> > 	           name   : string
> > 		   id     : integer
> >                    capital: integer
> >                  end
> >     bankclienttype = 1 to 1000 of clientstype

This is not the way basic or AMOS handles things. You should take a look
to Microsoft's QuickBasic or VisualBasic and get the right notation. Basic
doesn't support : as a way to declare things but a separator.

> >     Then Variables declarations  :
> > 
> >     Bank1 = bankclienttype
> >     
> >     And then the Main Program :
> >     initialisation -
> > 
> >      Bank1[1].name=firstclient
> >      Bank1[1].id  =1
> >      Bank1[1].capital = 10000000 (=very rich man - ha ha) 
> >      ... 
> >     End of Example
> >     The initialisation of the clients of the bank would be very
> >     easy to handle with a for - next, if you would like to input
> >     some test data, which emphasizes the power of this kind of structure.
> > 
> >     These suggestions were what I had in mind for now...
> >     I would appreciate if you would kindly comment my suggestions. Thanks!
> 
> While your at it, why not at real pointers (using * and & operators insted
> of Varptr(), Leek() and Loke? This would be very useful, especially if you
> could pass pointers as function parameters (like VAR parameters in Pascal).
> I would also like arrays with [] and procedures with (), but this, like
> a lot of the propositions in the message, would be a fundamental change
> to AMOS that could easily destroy backward compatability or make the
> interpereter slow. Maybe this would be best. AMOS 3 could be compiled-only
> and come with a translater to updates the files (like MS QBasic has a trans-
> lator for GW Basic files). If you wanted to go even futher, you could
> make AMOS based on C instead of Basic, but I don't think that would be
> popular, and the post is too long anywak so I'll just end it.

As I said, we must keep AMOS as AMOS. AMOS uses () with arrays, as every
basic. I don't understand the use of [] in procedures as it's not a
standard notation. The pointers should be added, but not with * and &.
Why everybody wants to make AMOS look like C or Pascal? The idea of C is
totally different from that of AMOS. The core of C has about 30 reserved
words and the others are in libraries. AMOS and all the other basics have
over 200 (AMOS over 500) instructions and functions. You can't base it on C.
-- 
   ____ __   ____ ____ _____ __ ____  / plastic@snakemail.hut.fi
  / . // /  / . // __//_  _// // __/ / plastic@niksula.hut.fi
 / __// /_ /   //__ /  / / / // /_  / JMT 5 C 383, 468 2028
/_/  /___//_/_//___/  /_/ /_//___/ / Life is hard, and then YOU DIE

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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 19:24:28 +1100 (DST)
From: Paul Reece <preece@clare.tased.edu.au>
X-Sender: preece@slick
To: Amos List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: Distribution of EME
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Due to some problems with distribution of EME recently, and upon discussions
with the world-wide distribution rights-holder, Playfield! (run by Ryan 
Scott) no longer has the rights to either:

1. Sell EME in any way, shape or form.
2. Re-Sell EME to other distributors.

This is due to a breach of agreement re: distribution.

Sorry if this causes any problems...  as someone once said - "It's outta 
my hands"..

A new distributor in the USA will be organised soon..

Regards,

Paul Reece

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Reece - ex Student & ex Network Assistant
Claremont College - Tasmania, Australia.

Email:    preece@clare.tased.edu.au, ds041@cleveland.freenet.edu
Finger:   preece@ftp.clare.tased.edu.au, preece@anfi.tas.gov.au
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For PGP Public Key, please finger preece@info.clare.tased.edu.au


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 15 07:41:41 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 11:35:16 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Re: airTaxi speed
To: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <Pine.ULT.3.90.941114114454.1370C-100000@cc.dixie.edu>
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Ok, ok, stop that.
Just try to spek as two friend :)

> Do you know anyone with an Amiga display >=800x600 no interlace?  From 
> what I have heard resolutions such as 1024x768 ni are possible on AGA 
> Amigas, given the right monitor and new 3.1 software...?

What do you mean?
Well, I have a multisync monitor and many resolutions are available.
I have seen all them (to choice one for the workbench) and if I remember 
right there where a 1280x1024 resolution (interlaced though).
And also VGA standard resolutions are available. All if full 256 colors 
(on my A1200).
800x600 is interlaced on Amiga, but it doesn't flicker very much.
But the best is surely 640x400 Dblntsc or multican resolutions (800x480).

M&F 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 15 08:14:43 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 13:00:38 +0200 (EET)
From: Petri Hakkinen <mystic@tlti.tokem.fi>
Subject: Re: uuencode
To: Darryl Lewis <Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <9411150403.AA00rha@comlink.mpx.com.au>
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> HI all,
> Can anyone help me out with a copy of uuencode?
> I have I version (which I use to decode files) but it encodes then to the
> screen, making it usless to me. I need it saved to a file so I can upload
> it to my local BBS then to the net.

You have to redirect the output to a file, for example I do this on Unix:
uuencode sourcefilename sourcefilename2 >destinationfile

This will uuencode "sourcefilename" to a "destinationfile".

The ">" char in the above example will direct the output to the 
"destinationfile".
"Sourcefilename2" file will be created when the "destinationfile" is 
decoded, usually this is same as "sourcefilename". 

Hope this will work on WB-Shell too!

> I found another version but it only works on machine with WB2+. I have 1.3
> :-(
> 
> So,
> I need a version of uuencode that works on WB1.3, and saves it to a file.
> Can any one help. Send it to me please. I accept it encoded as uuencoded.
> 
> Confused?
> Darryl
> 
> -- Via DLG Pro v1.0
> 
> 

Petri Hakkinen
mystic@tlti.tokem.fi


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 15 08:29:34 1994
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From: Derek Piper <se1dp@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199411151116.AA047038166@guava.cms.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Suggestions to Amos Pro 3.0
To: dux@iesd.auc.dk (Frank Busborg)
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 11:16:05 GMT
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <199411141303.OAA00997@galilei.iesd.auc.dk>; from "Frank Busborg" at Nov 14, 94 2:03 pm
X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14]
Status: RO
X-Status: 


Looks like Frank has been dosing up on ML to me. I like the idea though.

                               Del.

+--------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
|                                |        __                             |
|      Derek Piper               |       ///   Contact me for anything   |
|                                |  __  ///    about Amigas.             |
|   E-Mail: se1dp@dmu.ac.uk      |  \\\///                               |
|                                |   \\\/      I have A1200,120MB HD,    |
|   Software Engineering Year 1  |             6MB Ram,20Mhz 68881       |
|   DeMontfort University, Leic  |                                       |
+--------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
|"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend: and inside a dog, it's|
| too dark to read."  -  Groucho Marx                                    |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 15 09:16:25 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 13:07:21 +0000
From: ryan nicholas d <91211448@brookes.ac.uk>
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To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: re: uuencode
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Hi Darryl,
 
   I had an old (and disturbingly similar) version of uuencode which would only
output to the current window ...
 
   The solution ? Simply pipe the output to another device/file - in the same
way that this is done in most Startup-Sequences!
 
ie.     uuencode binary.file >uuencoded.file
 
It certainly seemed to work for me
 
 
Nick

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To: Janne Kalliola <plastic@snakemail.hut.fi>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net, ph@doc.ic.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Suggestions to Amos Pro 3.0
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 15 Nov 1994 08:24:11 +0200." <199411150624.IAA05922@beta.hut.fi>
X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5phi 9/15/94
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 13:25:45 +0000
From: Paul Hickman <ph@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <"fulmar.doc.529:15.10.94.13.25.53"@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Status: RO
X-Status: 


> > > 1)
> > > I would appreciate the possibility of having subprocedures in a 
> > > procedure, so that it enables you to fold the procedure with all its
> > > subprocedures into the representation of the main procedure name in one line.
> > > (it would also be a sort of information-hidding).
> > 
> > This sounds quite useful. I have often wanted this feature.
> 
> It's very useful, I have used that feature a lot when programming with Lisp.


It is useful, is a good idea, but don't hold your breath!


> > 
> > > 2) A better structure for the variables in Amos.
> > >    I am sort of a fan of Pascals way of handling data structures.
> > > 
> > >    I like the idea of first having to declare your different data types, 
> > >    variables and constants. 
> > 

Checkout Easylife v1.08 (Plug, plug) - It provides structured variables in 
AMOS.


> > I happen to hate many aspects of Pascal. One of them is the way things are
> > declared (ie declaring a record type in one section and the var in another.)
> > I do support explicit variable declation, but I think C handles it much
> > better then Pascal.

I am strongly in favour of explicit declaration - It greatly reduces the scope 
for error.
However I, and the rest of the development team are also in favour of keeping 
new 
versions of AMOS compatible with old programs, so I don't forsee it being 
added.

> > Perhaps we need a command like Set Explicit Declaration
> > so that old programs can still use implicit declartion (and so that you
> > don't have to make declartions in programs where this would be overkill.
> > 

Possible, but then you can just run the variable checker (See below).

> Why you have to declare variables. AMOS and AMOS Pro has excellent
> variable space idea and you shoul not forget that AMOS is a basic and
> the idea of basic don't include any declarations. If we add all kinds of
> "nice" things to AMOS, it won't be basic, pascal, C or anything, it'll be
> a collection of instructions and functions without any guidelines.
> 
The fact it is called 'AMOS Basic' is not a reason to stick to basics 
conventions. Forcing
explicit declarations would not affect the variable buffer unless you were 
forced to
declare the length of strings. As for a collection of instructions & functions 
without any
guidelines, if we did change it, we'd write the guidelines.

> > >    In this way your program would also automatically detect a programming error,   if you instead of the reel variable `number# ` accidently
> > >    write `number` - which would normally just be understood like a 
> > >    declarence of a new variable in the program.
> 
> Instead of declaration, there should be (and there's one) program, which
> checks variables. The program could give warnings when there's variables,
> which are only compared, they are only on the left or on the right side of
> an expression, they are mentioned only once....
> 

As author of said program - VarChecker.AMOS (Also in the EasylifeV1.08 
distribution
is a much faster and improved version than the one I posted here a while ago), 
I must
plug it, and point out it does already to everything mentioned above and more, 
such as
spaces missing after procedure calls e.g.

FRED: Print "Hello"
FRED : Print "Hello"

The first is a label, the second a procedure calls. The variable checker will 
detect labels
that have the same names as procedures.

> > >    It would be nice if you could build your own data types like
> > >    example:
> > >    First Type declarations :
> > >    clientstype = record
> > > 	           name   : string
> > > 		   id     : integer
> > >                    capital: integer
> > >                  end
> > >     bankclienttype = 1 to 1000 of clientstype
> 
> This is not the way basic or AMOS handles things. You should take a look
> to Microsoft's QuickBasic or VisualBasic and get the right notation. Basic
> doesn't support : as a way to declare things but a separator.
> 

Well, actually, Easylife does use a : to seperate the variable declarations, 
but they are
all given inside comments, and compiled into a bank before the program is run.

[snip]

> > While your at it, why not at real pointers (using * and & operators insted
> > of Varptr(), Leek() and Loke? This would be very useful, especially if you
> > could pass pointers as function parameters (like VAR parameters in Pascal).

One reason is AMOS is supposed to be highlevel enough not to use explicit 
pointers -
Varptr,Leek,Loke etc. are for the hackers. However, in Easylife's structures I 
add
proper pointers so I can't really argue about this from that viewpoint.

However, the address of a string in AMOS is subject to change at any time 
because
of the garbage collection is pointers to it would be useless. Pointers to 
integers and
reals are not usefull, and structured variables (The way I have written them) 
can
only be represented by pointers.

> > I would also like arrays with [] and procedures with (), but this, like
> > a lot of the propositions in the message, would be a fundamental change
> > to AMOS that could easily destroy backward compatability or make the
> > interpereter slow.

It would destroy compatability, but it wouldn't slow down the operator. I 
don't think it will
happen though as it is only a cosmetic change, and does not increase 
functionallity, so it
is not worth the hassle.

> Why everybody wants to make AMOS look like C or Pascal? The idea of C is
> totally different from that of AMOS. The core of C has about 30 reserved
> words and the others are in libraries. AMOS and all the other basics have
> over 200 (AMOS over 500) instructions and functions. You can't base it on C.

Exactly. Adding structured variables is something that was desparately needed, 
but 
there is no need to completely revamp the set of symbols used to define 
everything.
However, I disagree about the core instructions count - most AMOS instructions 
are
the same as C functions included from the standard libraries, but you don't 
have 
explicitly include the header files, you just load the extenions. Most amos 
instructions
are in the amos library which is just another extension. The only "core" AMOS
instructions are control structures (IF,THEN,WHILE,GOTO,PROC,END,EDIT,etc.),
variable assignment, simple arithmatic operators, and things like ON ERROR, 
EVERY
etc. 


P.s. to get Easylife V1.08, ftp to gate.net, login as ftp, give you E-Mail as 
a password,
and download from /pub/amos/software/extensions the files Easylife108_P1.lha &
Easylife108_P2.lha. 

+-------------------------+------------------------------------+
|                         |    _____                           |
| PAUL HICKMAN            |   /     \   ON A HOT SUMMER NIGHT  |
| (ph@doc.ic.ac.uk)       |  /  O O  \  WOULD YOU  OFFER YOUR  |
| DEPARTMENT OF COMPUTING | |    _    | THROAT  TO  THE  WOLF  |
| IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON |  \  / \  /  WITH THE RED  ROSES ?  |
|                         |   \_____/                          |
+-------------------------+------------------------------------+
Machines: Amiga 500  WB1.3 - 1mb Memory - External Disk Drive.
          Amiga 1200 WB3.0 - 2mb Memory - 200Mb Hard Disk.


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 15 12:51:59 1994
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 	id AA03673; Tue, 15 Nov 1994 15:52:30 +0100
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 15:52:40 PST
From: "stud.ass." <bcollin@mpi.nl>
Subject: Re: AMOSPro 3.0 ???
To: Amos Discussion List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Message-Id: <ECS9411151540A@mpi.nl>
Priority: Normal
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Sat, 12 Nov 1994 12:25:38 +0000 Paul Hickman wrote:

> 
> Erm, 3.0 implies that there is to be a *major* update. I think
> AMOSPro 2.10 is more representative of what will be released. 
> 
> Secondly, all suggestions for improvements / bugfixes should be
> sent to:
> 
>   team@clare.tased.edu.au
> 

I think that all suggestions should go to this forum in the first 
place, so that they can be discussed. That is what this is, a 
discussionlist, right? 

Adding to this, I agree with the comment someone made earlier on  
about functions, it would be easier to type:
x=rotate[inx,angle]
Not only would this save on typing, but it would make one's 
programmes clearer to read, both for the programmer as for anyone 
else reading it.

Branko Collin
bcollin@mpi.nl




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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 14:23:20 +0000
From: ryan nicholas d <91211448@brookes.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <9411151423.AA03184@csmail>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: re: Speed (not exactly AirTaxi though)
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Hi,
 
  I'm the proud owner of a 16Mhz 386 Pc, and I find that it is perfectly fast
enough - but then I don't waste processor time/disk space by using MS Windows
(excuse the dirty word please). So stop panning the 16Mhz 386 - it's a
perfectly acceptable machine (Wolfenstein runs swiftly enough anyway)
 
Both the PC and Amiga have their own advantages, the speed of the average PC
processor is generally faster than the speed of the average Amiga processor.
Hence PC's seem to be better than Amigas at number crunching applics such as
flight sims and other 3d intensive games. Why? well, all the new 3d games
specify processors such as 486 or Pentium, minimum - these processors are
pretty nippy and have built in FPUs which also handle fast Integer maths. You
will also notice the large memory requirements that most of these games have
(8Mb memory, etc) this is mostly due to the pre-calculation of many of the
game algorithms and graphics effects before they are needed. The age old
principle of "Do it once, and then copy it everafter".
 
The point? Well how many Amiga users have or are prepared to upgrade to
comparable systems such as an A4000/40(25Mhz) with 8Mb Fast/2Mb Chip Ram?
I say comparible because the A4000/40/25 is roughly equivalent to a 486 DX 50
(Full DX not the DX2 cheap skate versions) in pure processing muscle. The PC is
a mass market with many vendors producing "identical" systems, thus forcing
the unit price down through stiff competition. PC`s are almost becoming
disposable - throw away units (What happened to all those old 286s and 386s?)
 
And the Amiga, well it's a little more expensive than it's PC counterparts, but
it does have some advantages. Standard Slow-Fast Ram access is about 8 times
faster than that on all but the most expensive PCs. The graphics system is more
adaptable and swifter than the most expensive PC local bus cards (although more
and more PC cards are "full" 24 bit"). The floppy disk file system used to be a
real pig, but once again is now faster than the PC's method (little in it
though). What about hard disks I hear you ask? Oh dear - those internal 2.5"
IDE drives are a little slow aren't they? The drives are slow, the drive
controller is slow. In short the device in the A4000 series is a bit of an
insult to the Amiga that has to put up with it.
 
The software - this entire discussion topic seemed to stem from a game called
Air Taxi. Don't pan the programmer - it's not his fault that Amos is slow, the
fact is that Amos is easier to write in than Assembler. If he didn't use Amos
then you problably would never see the game at all (Assembler is not the
easiest language to learn). Perhaps if you were to support the programmer and
tell him how much nicer the game would be if it were to run faster on your
standard A1200, he may just convert the slow parts into Assembly - but then
again he may not (!?)
 
Software is as good as the amount of effort/expertise put into it - Amos has
frequently been criticised for producing games/applications which are ugly and
difficult to use. This is not an intrinsic problem with Amos, it's the time and
effort put into the project by the programmer. Thankfully the quality of the
new software is improving steadily, some of it no longer looks like it is
public domain anymore. So rather than pan a programmer why not say all the
points that you liked, and all that you didn't like - with suggestions for
improvement.
 
Some of the new PC software is very professionally produced, and looks very
nice indeed, this is developed on and for top end PCs, they will not be
converted over to Amigas because the number of machines which possess the power
to handle the programs is just too few. However, as the write of Poom! has
showed, the Amiga can do just as well (if not better in some ways), it just
requires that the algorithms are written differently to cater for the
differences in architecture (ie Pixel/Planar graphics)
 
A quote which I read somewhere ...
 
Optimise: To improve the efficiency of a program by altering the algorithms,
          NOT by buying new hardware.
 
 
 
Nick (One of these days I'll write a book by accident)
 
(91211448@Brookes.ac.uk)
 
 
ps. Before anyone out there gives me stick because they believe that I don't
know squat about what I've been ranting about ....
 
I've programmed Vax Mainframes and PCs Professionally
Learnt about 27 different programming languages (including 4 Assemblers)
Programmed games on the C64 (alas the publisher went under before production)
Constructed and repaired PCs
Have taken a few courses in Visual Presentation and Design.
 
I use the Amiga because I like it!
 
 
pps.
 
If you ever want to annoy a PC-user shout "640k Base memory!" at them.
If you ever want to annoy a PC-programmer, describe how you made an array/data
structure larger than 64k just by writing "Dim BIG_ARRAY(200,650)"
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 15 13:39:14 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 13:29:00 +0000 (GMT)
From: "S. Mortimer" <ssumorti@reading.ac.uk>
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To: Ben Marty <marty@cs.hope.edu>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
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On Wed, 9 Nov 1994, Ben Marty wrote:

> > 	Ive got a problem with corrupt AMOS files. I brought AMOS Pro V1.1, did
> > some work and then got the PD updater to V2 (via stages). Thing is V2 is 
> > refusing to load and V1.1 stuff. Nightmare.
> > 
> > 	Any ideas??
> 
> 	Use a previous version of AMOS Pro which WILL load the programs.
> Save ALL the programs as ASCII Text.  Save the banks separately in .abk files.
> Now use the updated version to "Merge ASCII" and load the aprobriate banks.
> If you find this troubling, save the files after you load them into the new
> AMOS Pro so you don't have to do it again later.
> 
>

Tryed that. Ive tryed V1.0 V1.1 V1.2 and V2.0 and none of them load the 
files.. I wonder if the really are corrupt, as if you look at the binary 
file, then the "AmosPro Vxxxx" is not the header.

V1.2 update is PD. I can not find the V2 updater :-<
 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 15 14:21:02 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 14:52:03 +0100 (BST)
From: "M.A.Mcclumpha" <M.A.McClumpha@newcastle.ac.uk>
Subject: Amos3d Trouble/Bugs
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
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	I have been having a hard time with amos3d of late, there are 2 
problems. The first problem I encounted was when was trying to write a 
golf game, and I created an object which was just a simple flat surface 
with 5 or 6 points. When in amos I would stretch the points of the object 
into the shape I wanted, then I would place it in my 3d world flat along 
the z axis. On one side the colour would be say blue for water, and on 
the other side yellow for a bunker so I would just flip it over to it's 
other side if I needed to use another colour. But 
what would happen is, as I moved the viewpoint towards/over this object
it would change between these 2 colours every now and again!! can anyone 
help with this?
	The other problem is that when you rotate the objects about the z 
axis, it rotates them about the screens z axis and not the objects z 
axis, which means I cant make an object ie. an airplane do a roll, unless 
it is pointing along the screens z axis. Which causes big problems :(. Is 
there any way to fix this or any formula which will allow me to use the 
other rotations to achive rotation about the objects z-axis?
	I would be very happy if anyone could help thanks.

Please Mail Me At

n334851@burnmoor.ncl.ac.uk



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 15 16:01:55 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 17:13:55 +0100
From: Daniel Johansson <d94djo@csd.uu.se>
Message-Id: <199411151613.RAA04190@mamba.csd.uu.se>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net, config@ultim.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Inertia tutorial
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>> Sound is radiation? No, it isn't!
>> It is a wave motion which fluctuates between high and low air pressure
>> a certain number of times per second, usually called the Hertz value.
>Oh yes it is.
>Sound is radiated thru a medium which makes it a radiation.
>It's just not electromagnetic radiation (light/heat *ARE* EM radiation)

I wouldn't call it radiation, but I guess you could if you really want to...:)

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 15 18:19:48 1994
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From: "C.J.COULSON" <C.J.Coulson@newcastle.ac.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date:          Tue, 15 Nov 1994 19:11:10 GMT0BST
Subject:       Re: Those pesky disk files again
Priority: normal
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>
>  example:
>
>	reserve as work 10,100*4 <-- room for 100 ints..
>
>	for x=0 to 99
>
>		loke start(10)+x*4,x
>
>	next
>	bsave "ram:t/int.file",start(10) to start(10)+length(10)..
>
>	Does this help ?

Kind of, this is what I already do, but with a 500KB bank (gulp!)
Later on in my mailing I discussed the idea of using a smaller
bank as a buffer, saving say 10KB at a time rather than creating
the full 500KB file in one go.  Anyway, thanks for the input.

Chris
c.j.coulson@ncl.ac.uk
A4000/030/882 - 6/530

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 15 19:47:15 1994
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From: "C.J.COULSON" <C.J.Coulson@newcastle.ac.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date:          Tue, 15 Nov 1994 19:17:06 GMT0BST
Subject:       Re: Those pesky disk files again
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> 
>   OK, so you want to save binary data...
> 

YES YES YES! (If only I`d thought of saying that in the
first place :-)

> 
>   You can write individual longwords (as of AMOS Pro, and, I think, Creator
> 1.36 as well) using the Ssave command:
> 
> Ssave 1,Varptr(VAR) To Varptr(VAR)+4

Whoa there, maybe my memory is a bit disfunctional, but I don`t ever
recall seeing an Ssave command in either Creator or Pro. The syntax 
you have there looks more like a Bsave command without the filename.

> 
> ... but that's a bad idea, because each write (i.e. call to DOS) takes up a
> *lot* of overhead.
> 

The speed of file creation is not a problem, it`s the memory required
to create the entire file as a bank first that is the problem.

> >Just an aside, I could use a small bank as a buffer,
> >write so many longwords to the bank then save the
> >bank to disk, then refill the buffer, save the bank
> >again and then join the two files together. Seriously
> >messy, but it would reduce my memory overheads.
> 
>   That's better.  Reserve a bank of, say, 16k, write some data to it, Ssave
> it to the file, and do it again.  So:
> 
> Reserve As Work 10,16384
> For <all data>
>    <fill bank>
>    Ssave 1,Start(10) To Start(10)+Length(10)
> Next
> 

Again, the use of Ssave where Bsave would seem more likely.
I`ll have to check the Pro manual and on-line help tonight.

Hmmmmmm

Chris
c.j.coulson@ncl.ac.uk
A4000/030/882 - 6/530 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 15 19:59:24 1994
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Reply-To: CRSO.Amos@canrem.com
Sender: CRSO.Amos@canrem.com
Subject: Second button on the joystick
From: mike.pelletier@canrem.com (Mike Pelletier)
Message-Id: <60.918.6587.0C1BEB7D@canrem.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 13:40:00 -0500
Organization: CRS Online  (Toronto, Ontario)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I need some help here.  I want to use a two button joystick in AMOS.  I have
been given a memory location to peek, but there is a problem.  While this
location (Sorry, I forget the address offhand) works fine for RMB presses in
port 2 (joystick port), a joystick second button pressed changes the state of
this memory location permanently.

EG: a=peek(x)
    ?a        (238)
press second joystick button
    a=peek(x)
    ?a        (24)
and letting the button go and pressing it again will have no effect on this
memory location (x being the address to peek)

Any ideas as to how to correctly read the second button?

Well met and godspeed,
                      Giark

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 15 19:59:42 1994
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Sender: CRSO.Amos@canrem.com
Subject: Amos Pro advantages?
From: mike.pelletier@canrem.com (Mike Pelletier)
Message-Id: <60.914.6587.0C1BEB7B@canrem.com>
In-Reply-To: <199411141220.NAA00937@galilei.iesd.auc.dk>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 13:25:00 -0500
Organization: CRS Online  (Toronto, Ontario)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

RE: AMOS Pro better.

I started out with AMOS 1.3, then got Easy AMOS (For the manual, I got 1.3 on a
coverdisk (yup, we get em here in Canada, too)), and finally upgraded to Pro
2.0.

I have never been happier with a software package.  I think that, aside from
the added commands, the interpreter itself is so much better than the 1.3
version.

BTW, I currently have AMOS Pro 2.0, Compiler Pro, AMOS 3D as my software.
Unfortunately, over here there seems to be very little support for the software
from Europress.

Well met and godspeed,
                      Giark

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Sender: CRSO.Amos@canrem.com
Subject: WordProcessor in AMOS
From: mike.pelletier@canrem.com (Mike Pelletier)
Message-Id: <60.915.6587.0C1BEB7C@canrem.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411141402.A17265-0100000@varano.ing.unico.it>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 13:28:00 -0500
Organization: CRS Online  (Toronto, Ontario)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Re: Word Processor in AMOS

Ya, I have one that I modified from an old VIC20 program.  I'm not sure you
will even see this, let alone how to get the file to you, but, if we can figure
that out, I'll send it along for you.

Well met and godspeed,
                      Giark

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 15 20:08:21 1994
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From: "C.J.COULSON" <C.J.Coulson@newcastle.ac.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date:          Tue, 15 Nov 1994 20:02:35 GMT0BST
Subject:       Re: Amos3d Trouble/Bugs
Priority: normal
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> From:          "M.A.Mcclumpha" <M.A.McClumpha@newcastle.ac.uk>

Lookee here, another Newcastle based list reader :-)

> 	I have been having a hard time with amos3d of late, there are 2 
> problems. The first problem I encounted was when was trying to write a 
> golf game, and I created an object which was just a simple flat surface 
> with 5 or 6 points. When in amos I would stretch the points of the object 
> into the shape I wanted, then I would place it in my 3d world flat along 
> the z axis. On one side the colour would be say blue for water, and on 
> the other side yellow for a bunker so I would just flip it over to it's 
> other side if I needed to use another colour. But 
> what would happen is, as I moved the viewpoint towards/over this object
> it would change between these 2 colours every now and again!! can anyone 
> help with this?

I`ve never seen problems like this, so I can`t help with that.

> 	The other problem is that when you rotate the objects about the z 
> axis, it rotates them about the screens z axis and not the objects z 
> axis, which means I cant make an object ie. an airplane do a roll, unless 
> it is pointing along the screens z axis. Which causes big problems :(. Is 
> there any way to fix this or any formula which will allow me to use the 
> other rotations to achive rotation about the objects z-axis?

This is a really annoying fault with the 3D extension. I have been
trying to get around this for some time without success, so anyone
who CAN fix this problem is going to have two lots of thanks.


Also on the 3D subject, has anyone noticed that if you set up an
object so that it is (I think) directly below or above the viewpoint,
i.e. the object centre is located on the Y axis of the viewpoint, and
you then orient the view to look at the object, it disappears!

i.e (no flames for syntax errors)

Td Move 0,0,0,0
Td Move 1,0,-100,-1000
Do
   <other display loop commands as required (Td Cls etc.)
   Td Forward 1,50
   Td Face 0,1
Loop

If I remember right, this should result in the object moving
directly under the view point, and in one frame the Z co-ordinate
of the object will be 0 (equal to the view point Z co-ord). At this
point, the object will disappear, only to reappear when moved
on in the next frame.

Anyone shed light on this?

CU
Chris
c.j.coulson@ncl.ac.uk

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 03:16:20 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 01:54:18 -0500
From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411160654.AA31338@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Second button on the joystick
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>I need some help here.  I want to use a two button joystick in AMOS.  I have
>been given a memory location to peek, but there is a problem.  While this
>location (Sorry, I forget the address offhand) works fine for RMB presses in
>port 2 (joystick port), a joystick second button pressed changes the state of
>this memory location permanently.
[...]
>Any ideas as to how to correctly read the second button?

  Use the following code segment:

X=Deek($DFF016)
BUTTON2=Not Btst(14,X)

  --Andy Church

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 03:53:48 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 08:52:24 +200 (WET)
From: Marko Turunen <marturun@messi.uku.fi>
Subject: Re: AirTAXI
To: Petri Hakkinen <mystic@tlti.tokem.fi>
Cc: Amos list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9411141354.C21741-0100000@tlti>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9411160802.C38284-0100000@messi.uku.fi>
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On Mon, 14 Nov 1994, Petri Hakkinen wrote:

> > 
> > If you haven't got airtaxi yet, get it.
> > It's great, very addictive (Altough exiting level 5 of the demo is near
> > impossible:) ....
> 
> Ok, If it's really so great, I'll check it out.
> But where can I find it? Is it in Aminet? 
> Or can someone just send it uuencoded to me?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
	I would like to see it also. Thank you!


> Petri Hakkinen
> mystic@tlti.tokem.fi
> 
> 

Marko Turunen 			    
Sairaalakatu 9 B 30                   marturun@messi.uku.fi
70110 Kuopio			      marturun@majakka.uku.fi
P. 971 - 2821 661

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 04:18:02 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 08:33:35 +200 (WET)
From: Marko Turunen <marturun@messi.uku.fi>
Subject: Re: Those pesky disk files again
To: "C.J.COULSON" <C.J.Coulson@newcastle.ac.uk>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <1DE4CEB356B@TOWN4.ncl.ac.uk>
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On Tue, 15 Nov 1994, C.J.COULSON wrote:

> > 
> >   OK, so you want to save binary data...
> > 
> 
> YES YES YES! (If only I`d thought of saying that in the
> first place :-)
> 
> > 
> >   You can write individual longwords (as of AMOS Pro, and, I think, Creator
> > 1.36 as well) using the Ssave command:
> > 
> > Ssave 1,Varptr(VAR) To Varptr(VAR)+4
> 
> Whoa there, maybe my memory is a bit disfunctional, but I don`t ever
> recall seeing an Ssave command in either Creator or Pro. The syntax 
> you have there looks more like a Bsave command without the filename.
> 
> > 
> > ... but that's a bad idea, because each write (i.e. call to DOS) takes up a
> > *lot* of overhead.
> > 
> 
> The speed of file creation is not a problem, it`s the memory required
> to create the entire file as a bank first that is the problem.
> 
> > >Just an aside, I could use a small bank as a buffer,
> > >write so many longwords to the bank then save the
> > >bank to disk, then refill the buffer, save the bank
> > >again and then join the two files together. Seriously
> > >messy, but it would reduce my memory overheads.
> > 
> >   That's better.  Reserve a bank of, say, 16k, write some data to it, Ssave
> > it to the file, and do it again.  So:
> > 
> > Reserve As Work 10,16384
> > For <all data>
> >    <fill bank>
> >    Ssave 1,Start(10) To Start(10)+Length(10)
> > Next
> > 
> 
	Well you could also get the fabulous MakeLib and do this:

	BSIZE = 1024*16
	FILE = Ma Fopen ("<filename>","w")
	BUFFER = Ma Malloc (BSIZE,MEM_CLEAR)
	if BUFFER AND FILE : Rem You got both BUFFER and FILE opened
		<poke 16k of data into it!>
		DUMMY = Ma Fwrite (FILE,BUFFER,BSIZE)
		Ma Fclose (FILE)
		Ma Free (BUFFER)
	end if

	And that's it. You don't have to mess with AMOS banks or channels.

	- Make (Lib)

	PS: Note! You need version 1.3 to use those file functions!

> Again, the use of Ssave where Bsave would seem more likely.
> I`ll have to check the Pro manual and on-line help tonight.
> 
> Hmmmmmm
> 
> Chris
> c.j.coulson@ncl.ac.uk
> A4000/030/882 - 6/530 
> 

Marko Turunen 			    
Sairaalakatu 9 B 30                   marturun@messi.uku.fi
70110 Kuopio			      marturun@majakka.uku.fi
P. 971 - 2821 661

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 05:00:27 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 02:01:35 -0500
From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411160701.AA25793@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Those pesky disk files again
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>>   You can write individual longwords (as of AMOS Pro, and, I think, Creator
>> 1.36 as well) using the Ssave command:
>> 
>> Ssave 1,Varptr(VAR) To Varptr(VAR)+4
>
>Whoa there, maybe my memory is a bit disfunctional, but I don`t ever
>recall seeing an Ssave command in either Creator or Pro. The syntax 
>you have there looks more like a Bsave command without the filename.

  It's there, all right (page 8.2.05 in the Pro manual), and very useful
for this sort of thing.  The format is

Ssave filenum,start to end

where filenum is the file number, and start and end are the bounds of the
memory area to save.  (Remember that the end value has to be one greater
than the address of the last byte you want to save; i.e. the number of
bytes written is end-start.)

>> ... but that's a bad idea, because each write (i.e. call to DOS) takes up a
>> *lot* of overhead.
>
>The speed of file creation is not a problem, it`s the memory required
>to create the entire file as a bank first that is the problem.

  Erm... you *don't* want to try writing a 500k file four bytes at a time.
Trust me.  (On the other hand, if you've got a book to read, you can sit
back and read a few chapters while the program is writing the file. :-) )

  --Andy Church

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 06:54:13 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 10:12:00 +0100 (MET)
From: Flint <Mathieu.Dhondt@rug.ac.be>
To: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Cc: amos-list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: WordProcessor in AMOS
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411141402.A17265-0100000@varano.ing.unico.it>
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.91.941116101051.20871A-100000@eduserv>
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X-Status: 

On Mon, 14 Nov 1994, Marco Beretta wrote:

> 
> I would like to know if someone is interested in developing a simple word 
> processor. 
> I need help. I anyone interested?
> I want real help. I need someone who would receive code, watch it, recode 
> it and send it back to me... lots of times.
> Does anyone has simple code in AMOS of a wordprocessor. None of you has 
> written it before (for its own use).
There has been a wordprocessor in AMOSPro, although it's Licenseware. It 
is called Power-I-Don't-know-what, and Amiga Shopper gave it full marks. 
Maybe somebody knows this guy? 
Flint.

"My boy, if ever you are lost at sea, drop right in and think of me."
- J. Heller


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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 11:01:19 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Word Processor -> text editor
To: amos-list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
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OK, I have make a big mistake!
I didn't want to program a Word Processor such as Final writer o final 
copy, but a simple text editor such as memacs (<- but not like it!)

I want to create a word pro to help POV-Ray users building their scenes 
much more easily. And I would like to use it as well!

I need some procedures (commented) to create the buffer where to write 
the text. I have tryied to make a bank where all the characters were 
saved, (thanks to EasyLife extension) but text insertion required to shift 
all the characters which followed the position chosed (by mouse).

It is very simple. I have not completed it as I know it is a bad way to 
start a program... 

I would like to receive all the material you can send me (uuencoded).
And also if someone has time (little) to help me developing this project.

M&F

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 07:46:26 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 11:00:15 +0100 (CET)
From: D.Vissers@hi.ft.HSE.NL
Subject: 2nd Second button on the joystick
To: Amos-list@access.digex.net
Message-Id: <20E16D539D2@hi.ft.hse.nl>
Organization: Hogeschool Eindhoven
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>Giark wrote:

> I need some help here.  I want to use a two button joystick in AMOS.  I have
> been given a memory location to peek, but there is a problem.  While this
> location (Sorry, I forget the address offhand) works fine for RMB presses in
> port 2 (joystick port), a joystick second button pressed changes the state of
> this memory location permanently.
> 
> EG: a=peek(x)
>     ?a        (238)
> press second joystick button
>     a=peek(x)
>     ?a        (24)
> and letting the button go and pressing it again will have no effect on this
> memory location (x being the address to peek)
> 
> Any ideas as to how to correctly read the second button?
> 
> Well met and godspeed,
>                       Giark

Could I extent this question, I have about the same question..

Does anybody have the address of either mouse/joy-port.

I don't want to read 2 buttons   but 5 !  (The original CD32 PAD) !

 
Greetings from:   Dave 'Dopex' Vissers
                  D.Vissers@HI.FT.HSE.NL

My modules are available on...     F:\pub\amiga\mods\dopex
HI.FT.HSE.NL   /   145.85.114.1   /   145.85.113.2

THE EARTH IS FLAT  ,  PIGS CAN FLY AND NUCLEAR-POWER IS SAFE !
                                               'Greenpeace' 

If you want a silly answer from Prof. I Noit add a '##' in the 
subject.     
                

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 08:01:15 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 10:52:10 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: re: Speed (not exactly AirTaxi though)
To: ryan nicholas d <91211448@brookes.ac.uk>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <9411151423.AA03184@csmail>
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>   I'm the proud owner of a 16Mhz 386 Pc, and I find that it is perfectly fast
> enough - but then I don't waste processor time/disk space by using MS Windows
> (excuse the dirty word please). So stop panning the 16Mhz 386 - it's a
> perfectly acceptable machine (Wolfenstein runs swiftly enough anyway)
				^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't call a machine acceptable if it run Wolfenstein 3D in a smooth way!

> Both the PC and Amiga have their own advantages, the speed of the average PC
> processor is generally faster than the speed of the average Amiga processor.
> Hence PC's seem to be better than Amigas at number crunching applics such as
> flight sims and other 3d intensive games. Why? well, all the new 3d games
> specify processors such as 486 or Pentium, minimum - these processors are
> pretty nippy and have built in FPUs which also handle fast Integer maths. You
> will also notice the large memory requirements that most of these games have
> (8Mb memory, etc) this is mostly due to the pre-calculation of many of the
> game algorithms and graphics effects before they are needed. The age old
> principle of "Do it once, and then copy it everafter".
>  
> The point? Well how many Amiga users have or are prepared to upgrade to
> comparable systems such as an A4000/40(25Mhz) with 8Mb Fast/2Mb Chip Ram?
						^^^^^^^^
We does not need them for games (as MS-DOS machines!)

> I say comparible because the A4000/40/25 is roughly equivalent to a 486 DX 50
> (Full DX not the DX2 cheap skate versions) in pure processing muscle. The PC is
> a mass market with many vendors producing "identical" systems, thus forcing
> the unit price down through stiff competition. PC`s are almost becoming
> disposable - throw away units (What happened to all those old 286s and 386s?)
>  
> And the Amiga, well it's a little more expensive than it's PC counterparts, but
> it does have some advantages. Standard Slow-Fast Ram access is about 8 times
> faster than that on all but the most expensive PCs. The graphics system is more
> adaptable and swifter than the most expensive PC local bus cards (although more
> and more PC cards are "full" 24 bit"). The floppy disk file system used to be a
> real pig, but once again is now faster than the PC's method (little in it
> though). What about hard disks I hear you ask? Oh dear - those internal 2.5"
> IDE drives are a little slow aren't they? The drives are slow, the drive
> controller is slow. In short the device in the A4000 series is a bit of an
> insult to the Amiga that has to put up with it.

If you want there is a SCSI II controller. 5 MB/sec are enough for many 
purpose, surely better than this 300 K/sec HD I am usin here at school!

> The software - this entire discussion topic seemed to stem from a game called
> Air Taxi. Don't pan the programmer - it's not his fault that Amos is slow, the
> fact is that Amos is easier to write in than Assembler. If he didn't use Amos
> then you problably would never see the game at all (Assembler is not the
> easiest language to learn). Perhaps if you were to support the programmer and
> tell him how much nicer the game would be if it were to run faster on your
> standard A1200, he may just convert the slow parts into Assembly - but then
> again he may not (!?)

I'm not an assembler programmer.
The question born from a comment: "how can we compete with PC with these 
slow processor" or something.
I am just wondering how a A500 well programmed can do things a 386 16 MHz 
cannot do!

> Optimise: To improve the efficiency of a program by altering the algorithms,
>           NOT by buying new hardware.

That's what I was saying!

M&F

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 09:07:36 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 07:41:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Cc: amos-list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Word Processor -> text editor
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411161002.B28597-0100000@varano.ing.unico.it>
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Check out PratchED by Mr. EasyLife himself!  :)  Very nice editor with a
lot of bells and whistles!

Michael
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
             For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 09:52:51 1994
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From: Jurgen Valks <J.VALKS@hsbos.nl>
Organization:  Hogeschool 's-Hertogenbosch
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date:          Wed, 16 Nov 1994 13:15:51 GMT-1DFT
Subject:       Klik 'n Play SUX!!!!!!!!
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Wo! I just saw Klik 'n Play. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a shit program!!!


Greetings from,

/---------------------------------------------------------------------\
|   Jurgen Valks, Helpdesk HEAO                                       |
|   Tel     : +31 (0)73-295400  Email: j.valks@hsbos.nl               | 
|   Systems : Amiga 2000, Amiga 1200 68030, 50Mhz, 6Mb                |
|              Amiga 1200, 68030 50Mhz. Pc-DX2 66, SNES               |
\_____________________________________________________________________/

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 13:06:01 1994
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From: Kimmo Veijalainen <Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi>
Message-Id: <199411161544.RAA08885@liero.cc.lut.fi>
Subject: Stupid me
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
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I found out what was wrong with my AmosPro:

a) Someone suggested I try making the variable name buffer size larger.
   It's now 32K and the editor no longer corrupts my program listing.
   (or at least hasn't done so in 3 days to a program that used to get
   corrupted within 15 mins)
b) The overflow-errors in compiled programs...
   I tried to divide a 32-bit value with 32-bit value --> problemo.
   Also, the result must fit in one word... :-I

I'm not sure if these two things were mentioned in the AmosPro
documentation... I couldn't see them there...

Where can I find the demo version of EME?


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From: Kimmo Veijalainen <Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi>
Message-Id: <199411161557.RAA09003@liero.cc.lut.fi>
Subject: Klik 'n Play SUX!!!!!!!!
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 17:57:48 +0200 (EET)
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Forwarded message:

> Wo! I just saw Klik 'n Play. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a shit program!!!
> 
> Greetings from,
> 
> |   Jurgen Valks, Helpdesk HEAO                                       |

Hehe, it's for Windoze, so what did you expect :-)
Seriously, is it awful or microsoft-awful?

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From: hugor@staff.udg.mx (Hugo Ramses -Multimedia)
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To: amos-list@access.digex.net
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> Wo! I just saw Klik 'n Play. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a shit program!!!


Isn't like an Amos for PC?



_________________________
Hugo Ramses Moreno Ramos
hugor@cosmos.staff.udg.mx
Guadalajara, Mexico

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 14:29:11 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 09:44:33 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: Jurgen Valks <J.VALKS@hsbos.nl>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Klik 'n Play SUX!!!!!!!!
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> Wo! I just saw Klik 'n Play. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a shit program!!!
> 
You're kidding!  You mean Francois abandoned us for a cheap PC imitation?

Gad freaks...      - Dave

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From: mike.pelletier@canrem.com (Mike Pelletier)
Message-Id: <60.936.6587.0C1BEDD4@canrem.com>
In-Reply-To: <1DF0F2F75AA@TOWN4.ncl.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 11:06:00 -0500
Organization: CRS Online  (Toronto, Ontario)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I've had my share of troubles with 3D.  I don't know if this will help, but
have you:

1. made sure the object was oriented properly when created in OM?

2. set the centre of gravity to the point which you want it to rotate about?

Also, does anyone know if there is a version of OM that will work under OS2.1?

Well met and godspeed,
                      Giark

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 15:49:21 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 12:31:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: Angel Alvarez <angel@labein.es>
Cc: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Re : Klik 'n Play SUX!!!!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <147*angel@labein.es>
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941116123052.24670A-100000@access1.digex.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: RO
X-Status: 

On 16 Nov 1994, Angel Alvarez wrote:
> Klik 'n Play is the PC-project in which Francois Lionet was working?
Yes.

Michael
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
             For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 16:14:59 1994
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Date: 16 Nov 94 16:05 +0100
From: Angel Alvarez <angel@labein.es>
To: amos-request@svcs1.digex.net
Message-Id: <147*angel@labein.es>
Subject: Re : Klik 'n Play SUX!!!!!!!!
Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 12:31:24 -0500 (EST)
Resent-From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
Resent-To: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Resent-Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941116123124.24670B@access1.digex.net>
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>Wo! I just saw Klik 'n Play. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a shit program!!!

Klik 'n Play is the PC-project in which Francois Lionet was working?

===============================================================================
                     _/_/_/ _/     _/_/   _/_/_/    _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/
 Angel Alvarez      _/  _/ _/     _/  _/   _/      _/     _/  _/ _/       _/   
  (Aldi Soft)      _/_/_/ _/     _/  _/   _/      _/_/_/ _/  _/ _/_/     _/    
angel@labein.es   _/  _/ _/     _/  _/   _/          _/ _/  _/ _/       _/     
                 _/  _/ _/_/_/ _/_/   _/_/_/    _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/       _/      
===============================================================================
             | Note: Aldi Soft isn't a software company. It's me. |
             ======================================================


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 16:38:46 1994
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To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Reply-To: CRSO.Amos@canrem.com
Sender: CRSO.Amos@canrem.com
Subject: Second button blues
From: mike.pelletier@canrem.com (Mike Pelletier)
Message-Id: <60.937.6587.0C1BEDE2@canrem.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 11:28:00 -0500
Organization: CRS Online  (Toronto, Ontario)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Andy,
     I tried your coding:

X=Deek($DFF016)
BUTTON2= Not Btst(14,X)
Print X,BUTTON2

It starts with values of 21760 for X and 0 for BUTTON2

As soon as the button is pressed once the values change to 5376 for X and -1
for BUTTON2.  The problem is, the values NEVER RESET.  Once the second button
is pressed once, it stays at 5376 and -1 until the computer is reset.

The joystick I use works fine on Lunar-C, Project X, Apidya II, etc. (Games
which use the second button) so there is no problem with the joystick.

Is there a location like on the old 8-bit computers where I can check all the
joystick lines without any software or hardware monkeying around with it?  Like
the old addresses where Bit 1 was left 2 was right etc?

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 16:40:05 1994
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From: "C.J.COULSON" <C.J.Coulson@newcastle.ac.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date:          Wed, 16 Nov 1994 17:32:40 GMT0BST
Subject:       Re: Those pesky disk files again
Priority: normal
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail/Windows v1.11
Message-Id: <1F48FD170BB@TOWN4.ncl.ac.uk>
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> >> Ssave 1,Varptr(VAR) To Varptr(VAR)+4
> >
> >Whoa there, maybe my memory is a bit disfunctional, but I don`t ever
> >recall seeing an Ssave command in either Creator or Pro. The syntax 
> >you have there looks more like a Bsave command without the filename.
> 
>   It's there, all right (page 8.2.05 in the Pro manual), and very useful
> 

So it is. I`ve never written any Pro code for handling sampled data
before which is why these commands slipped me by. "Very useful" ?
No, *!VERY!* useful is more like it.

> >> ... but that's a bad idea, because each write (i.e. call to DOS) takes up a
> >> *lot* of overhead.
> >
> >The speed of file creation is not a problem, it`s the memory required
> >to create the entire file as a bank first that is the problem.
> 
>   Erm... you *don't* want to try writing a 500k file four bytes at a time.
> Trust me.  (On the other hand, if you've got a book to read, you can sit
> back and read a few chapters while the program is writing the file. :-) )
> 

Oh, confession time. I`m not actually writing 500KB of data, well,
not all the time. I`m comparing two 500KB files and writing out
the differences (yes I know there are already utilities to do this,
but I like reinventing the wheel). Since I don`t know how many 
longwords are going to differ between the two files I have to assume
the worst case and be prepared to write out 500KB worth of diff data.

As it happens, the current use for the program results in about
20KB of data being written, but as I`ve said, I can`t assume there
will only be 20KB or so to write out.

Anyway, thanks for pointing me in the direction of Ssave, it`s
exactly what I was looking for, and for 20KB of output I only
lose a second or so over a 60 second total running time, 
compared to the old method.

I`ll try writing 500KB to disk via Ssave and see how long
it takes compared to copying 500KB from memory to disk,
just out of interest.

>   --Andy Church
> 

Chris
c.j.coulson@ncl.ac.uk

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 17:03:51 1994
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From: Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au (Darryl Lewis)
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: airTaxi speed
Status: RO
X-Status: 

 MB> - Just buy a C64 and see what was albe to do. See GEOS and then watch
 MB> Windows... or watch the OLD Elite or the excellent Last Ninja II!

I think the 64 was a good machine - it has some programming functions (even
in basic) that amos doesn't have. Yeah, that's right, the 64 has features
in basic that Amos doesn't!
Somebody fix them please..... Sprite/bob to background collisions I need!

Darryl

-- Via DLG Pro v1.0


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 17:48:45 1994
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 20:21:22 +0000
From: ryan nicholas d <91211448@brookes.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <9411162021.AA16598@csmail>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re Speed
Content-Length: 1237
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hi,
 
Woah! - excuse me for being taken a little wrong on a few points in my earlier
posting ....
 
The 386/16 bit was a joke - I own one and about the only thing that does run
swiftly is Wolfenstein 3D - but the real joke is that it has only 3Mb of memory
and a 20Mb Hard drive. (Full credit to the Wolfenstein programmers though, for
producing an innovative(ish) game which did not require a Pentium 200Mhz and
32 Mb of memory to run properly - the programs that we (Amiga users) get that
runs in 1Mb really baffle PC owners).
 
Number crunching on a PC is only faster because they are cheaper, and
thus a faster processor can be employed for the same cost. Motorolla processors
are faster than Intel processors - probably because Motorolla processors do not
have to be backwardly compatible to a prehistoric 8-bit processor (It's true -
even the Pentium is compatible back this far - I believe).
 
Sorry I forgot to mention the Amiga's co-processors. The idea for coprocessors
is only just evolving on the PC side of the wall of light and spiritual
satisfaction. It's just a shame that multi-processors have been lurking around
in the Amiga since it came out.
 
Cheers, Nick (Before I bore everyone again)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 18:58:07 1994
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From: Matt Pierce <mpierce@hpvclo.vcd.hp.com>
Message-Id: <9411162121.AA01737@hpvclo.vcd.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Amos3d Trouble/Bugs
To: amos-list@access.digex.net (amos list)
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 94 13:21:39 PST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> 
> I've had my share of troubles with 3D.  I don't know if this will help, but
> have you:
> 
> 1. made sure the object was oriented properly when created in OM?
> 
> 2. set the centre of gravity to the point which you want it to rotate about?
> 

I talked with the author about this a couple of years ago and he knew about
the limitation and was going to try to fix it (yeah right).  He seemed 
reluctant to fix it because he didn't want to have to deal with the case 
where someone used an IFF backdrop and then rotated their POV around the 
Z-axis ('Can you imagine rotating an IFF backdrop in real-time!?' is what
he said).

> Also, does anyone know if there is a version of OM that will work under OS2.1?
> 
> Well met and godspeed,
>                       Giark
> 

There is a version that works under OS2.1 and I think it is on Aminet, 
though I don't know where.

Matt Pierce

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 16 20:53:28 1994
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From: dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk
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          16 Nov 94 22:16 GMT
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 94 10:57:24 GMT
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Organization: Fortune Software
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X-Status: 

> I need some help here.  I want to use a two button joystick in AMOS.  I have
> been given a memory location to peek, but there is a problem.  While this
> location (Sorry, I forget the address offhand) works fine for RMB presses in
> port 2 (joystick port), a joystick second button pressed changes the state of
> this memory location permanently.
> 
> EG: a=peek(x)
>     ?a        (238)
> press second joystick button
>     a=peek(x)
>     ?a        (24)
> and letting the button go and pressing it again will have no effect on this
> memory location (x being the address to peek)
> 
> Any ideas as to how to correctly read the second button?
From: dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk (Dominic Ramsey)
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Second button on the joystick

I'm not sure, but I would suggest you have a non-standard or faulty
joystick.

If I want to read the second fire button on the CD32 controller, I write
a procedure that reads $DFF016 (I think), and it does not need resetting
after being read.

Dom 

--
Dominic Ramsey      email: dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk
http://www.gate.net/user/play/people/dramsey.html

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From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Re: WordProcessor in AMOS
To: amos-list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <941116120314.000009f0.td93jp@TE.HIK.SE>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9411171054.C21388-0100000@varano.ing.unico.it>
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> Is there any money to make? If it is, I'll be on it.
> 
> Per Jonsson, Td93JP@Te.Hik.Se

No, no money to make!!!!!!!!!!!
I want to program for myself (and maybe to help someone else) but I don't 
want to make money. Till now at least.

M&F

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 17 07:53:33 1994
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From: Kimmo Veijalainen <Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi>
Message-Id: <199411171112.NAA16856@liero.cc.lut.fi>
Subject: Re: Klik 'n Play SUX!!!!!!!!
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 13:12:34 +0200 (EET)
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Forwarded message:

> I don't get it, why making a game creator running under windows...There
> are several games with it, a shoot-em-up, a card game and 8 more games.
> The shoot-em-up doesn't scroll, and the graphics don't move smooth.....

> |   Jurgen Valks, Helpdesk HEAO                                       |

Hmm. <PC user mode on> "That's because it's meant for Pentium/90 running 
Chicago, with Kick-Aaaas6.3 gfx accelerator" :-)

Heh heh. What was francois thinking?


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 17 09:38:33 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 07:22:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: AMOS Commands on WWW?
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941117071843.12421A-100000@access3.digex.net>
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I was wondering if anyone has placed that AMOS.guide on AmiNet into a WWW
site?  I have converted it to HTML and would like to convert all other AMOS
AmigaGuides (EME, Intuition, others?) into an HTML and allow others to
access them.  Does anyone object to this?

Soon, I hope to have a direct connection to the Internet that I can put the
mailing List on and all the other AMOS files.  If anyone has manuals for
extensions that do not have an AmigaGuide file, can you help out?  I am
thinking of TURBO PLUS, DSAM, C-TEXT, etc.  Just a list of the commands,
their syntax and what the parameters are.

Thanks!

Michael
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
             For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 17 10:11:12 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 08:25:12 -0500
From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411171325.AA18611@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Second button blues
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>Andy,
>     I tried your coding:
>
>X=Deek($DFF016)
>BUTTON2= Not Btst(14,X)
>Print X,BUTTON2
>
>It starts with values of 21760 for X and 0 for BUTTON2
>
>As soon as the button is pressed once the values change to 5376 for X and -1
>for BUTTON2.  The problem is, the values NEVER RESET.  Once the second button
>is pressed once, it stays at 5376 and -1 until the computer is reset.
>
>The joystick I use works fine on Lunar-C, Project X, Apidya II, etc. (Games
>which use the second button) so there is no problem with the joystick.
>
>Is there a location like on the old 8-bit computers where I can check all the
>joystick lines without any software or hardware monkeying around with it?  Like
>the old addresses where Bit 1 was left 2 was right etc?

  $DFF016 (POTGOR) is as close as you get.  Bit 14 contains the current state
of pin 9 on port 2, which is the pin usually used for a second button (and
for the right mouse button).  Try it with a mouse - if that doesn't work, one
of your chips is probably shot.

  --Andy Church

From ph@doc.ic.ac.uk Thu Nov 17 10:31:35 1994
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To: Dolfan in VA <mcox@access.digex.net>
Cc: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>, ph@doc.ic.ac.uk
Subject: Re: AMOS Commands on WWW?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 17 Nov 1994 07:22:21 EST." <Pine.SUN.3.91.941117071843.12421A-100000@access3.digex.net>
X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5phi 9/15/94
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 15:30:50 +0000
From: Paul Hickman <ph@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <"swan.doc.i.001:17.10.94.15.31.13"@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> I was wondering if anyone has placed that AMOS.guide on AmiNet into a WWW
> site?  I have converted it to HTML and would like to convert all other AMOS
> AmigaGuides (EME, Intuition, others?) into an HTML and allow others to
> access them.  Does anyone object to this?
> 
I have an guide to HTML converter written in AMOS - It will be in the next 
easylife release.

> Soon, I hope to have a direct connection to the Internet that I can put the
> mailing List on and all the other AMOS files.  If anyone has manuals for
> extensions that do not have an AmigaGuide file, can you help out?  I am
> thinking of TURBO PLUS, DSAM, C-TEXT, etc.  Just a list of the commands,
> their syntax and what the parameters are.
> 

Also, in the next release of easylife will be an Amiga Guide viewer written in 
AMOS,
which replaces the AMOSPro help viewer program, and an Amiga guide conversion
of the amospro help pages. Therefore it should be possible to convert the 
entire
AMOSPro help system to HTML. 

The guide viewer exteneds the amiga guide syntax slightly to allow directory 
listings
to be browsed as pages, and to allow you to load a program into the editor by 
clicking
on a link.

> Thanks!

> 
> Michael
> --
> Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
> A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
>              For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
>              For AMOS Pro news, finger mcox@access.digex.net
> 


+-------------------------+------------------------------------+
|                         |    _____                           |
| PAUL HICKMAN            |   /     \   ON A HOT SUMMER NIGHT  |
| (ph@doc.ic.ac.uk)       |  /  O O  \  WOULD YOU  OFFER YOUR  |
| DEPARTMENT OF COMPUTING | |    _    | THROAT  TO  THE  WOLF  |
| IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON |  \  / \  /  WITH THE RED  ROSES ?  |
|                         |   \_____/                          |
+-------------------------+------------------------------------+
Machines: Amiga 500  WB1.3 - 1mb Memory - External Disk Drive.
          Amiga 1200 WB3.0 - 2mb Memory - 200Mb Hard Disk.


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 17 11:00:15 1994
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From: ryan nicholas d <91211448@brookes.ac.uk>
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To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Word search
Content-Length: 288
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Hi,
 
   Here I am running into problems again ... I currently use Hunt to search
a bank of memory for certain bytes, unfortunately I now need to do a Word
oriented search (HELP!) is there a command for doing this that I don't know
about or do I have to do it "manually"
 
 
Cheers, Nick

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Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 08:05:41 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: Mike Pelletier <mike.pelletier@canrem.com>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Second button blues
In-Reply-To: <60.937.6587.0C1BEDE2@canrem.com>
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On Wed, 16 Nov 1994, Mike Pelletier wrote:

> Andy,
>      I tried your coding:
> 
> X=Deek($DFF016)
> BUTTON2= Not Btst(14,X)
> Print X,BUTTON2
> 
> It starts with values of 21760 for X and 0 for BUTTON2
> 
> As soon as the button is pressed once the values change to 5376 for X and -1
> for BUTTON2.  The problem is, the values NEVER RESET.  Once the second button
> is pressed once, it stays at 5376 and -1 until the computer is reset.

I tried the same set of code with no problems.  It read my sega pad C 
button (joystick button 2) just fine!

A possibilty is you may have to set a hardware register  to set the 
$DFF016 location as readonly.  I don't think so, hopefully you don't have 
faulty hardware!

> 
> The joystick I use works fine on Lunar-C, Project X, Apidya II, etc. (Games
> which use the second button) so there is no problem with the joystick.
> 
> Is there a location like on the old 8-bit computers where I can check all the
> joystick lines without any software or hardware monkeying around with it?  Like
> the old addresses where Bit 1 was left 2 was right etc?
> 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 17 14:15:28 1994
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From: Kimmo Veijalainen <Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi>
Message-Id: <199411171738.TAA21557@liero.cc.lut.fi>
Subject: Word search
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 19:38:29 +0200 (EET)
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Forwarded message:

> Hi,
>  
>    Here I am running into problems again ... I currently use Hunt to search
> a bank of memory for certain bytes, unfortunately I now need to do a Word
> oriented search (HELP!) is there a command for doing this that I don't know
> about or do I have to do it "manually"

I think the LDos extension has commands for string hunting...


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 17 14:56:26 1994
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From: Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au (Darryl Lewis)
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: uuencode
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Thanks to all who have replied. BUT please stop telling me to use ">" to
redirect the out put to a file. It doesn't work. Why? The version of
uuencode I have drops out if you enter more than 2 arguments and prints an
error message. ie uuencode file file ----prints to the screen.
            uuencode file file > encoded_file ----prints uuencode
[infile]file

Is short, I know about redirection, but I have a funny version of uuencode.
I need a version which works and allows redirection or output to a file on
the amiga.
If not, I'll dissasemble the code and rewrite it as a last ditch effort!

Darryl

-- Via DLG Pro v1.0


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 17 16:21:52 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Nov 1994 15:44:35 -0500 (EST)
From: "Timothy E. Wright" <tewright@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: mosaic
To: AMOS list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
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   This is not exactly AMOS related but I don't know where else to get a 
quick friendly answer...

   There have been a few scattered references to Mosiac on this list.  
Could someone please tell me where I could possibly get the Mosaic 
program for Amiga (if it even exists).  I can't seem to find any listings 
of an Amiga client anywhere!  I'm currently working on a mosaic project 
and have been forced to use it on Mac or IBM.  This makes it impossible 
to work from home.  ANY help would be appreciated!
   Respond directly to me so we don't have to clutter the list with a 
mostly unrelated topic.  Thanky! :)

-=========}==*  Tim Wright - "Argh!" - tewright@mailbox.syr.edu  *=={=========-


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 17 22:52:55 1994
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          18 Nov 94 0:35 GMT
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Date: Thu, 17 Nov 94 22:52:32 GMT
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Organization: UltiMedia Graphics
X-Mailviewer: Mail 1.14
From: Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: (Easy) Amos (Pro) Cover Disks
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Ok folks, here's the lo-down.

There was talk of the Easy Amos Cover disk on AUI<?>, well it's definately
there cuz I saw it today (Maybe it was AC? Oh well)
There is the Easy Amos main disk and also a data disk.

Now for the REALLY big news.

Amiga Format are cover disk'ing Amos Pro for the Christmas edition.
~~~~~~~~~~~~     ~~~~~~~~~~     ~~~~~~~~         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
So there you have it. Don't buy anything ( Well, apart from the manuals :)
until you checked out these mags

See y'all round the net (awful phrase)

G.
--
Gareth D. Edwards, 25 Somerville Green, Leeds, West Yorkshire, England.  
E-Address: config@ultim.demon.co.uk
Web Home Page: http://www.gate.net/amos/play/people/GarethEdwards.html
Editor of the Seal FAQ and Future Love Paradise W3 site.

From mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it Fri Nov 18 04:47:57 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 10:47:04 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Re: AMOS Commands on WWW?
To: Dolfan in VA <mcox@access.digex.net>
Cc: AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941117071843.12421A-100000@access3.digex.net>
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> I was wondering if anyone has placed that AMOS.guide on AmiNet into a WWW
> site?  I have converted it to HTML and would like to convert all other AMOS
> AmigaGuides (EME, Intuition, others?) into an HTML and allow others to
> access them.  Does anyone object to this?
> 
> Soon, I hope to have a direct connection to the Internet that I can put the
> mailing List on and all the other AMOS files.  If anyone has manuals for
> extensions that do not have an AmigaGuide file, can you help out?  I am
> thinking of TURBO PLUS, DSAM, C-TEXT, etc.  Just a list of the commands,
> their syntax and what the parameters are.

I can help you with the Turbo plus extension (version 1.9), but where I 
can get the other extensions?
They are not available from Aminet.

M&F

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 07:59:14 1994
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Date: 18 Nov 94 11:13 +0100
From: Angel Alvarez <angel@labein.es>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Message-Id: <150*angel@labein.es>
Subject: Re: (Easy) Amos (Pro) Cover Disks
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Gareth Edwards wrote:
>Amiga Format are cover disk'ing Amos Pro for the Christmas edition.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~     ~~~~~~~~~~     ~~~~~~~~         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anybody knows if AF will release AMOS Pro with its compiler? And what version?
Either 1.00 or 2.00?

===============================================================================
                     _/_/_/ _/     _/_/   _/_/_/    _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/
 Angel Alvarez      _/  _/ _/     _/  _/   _/      _/     _/  _/ _/       _/   
  (Aldi Soft)      _/_/_/ _/     _/  _/   _/      _/_/_/ _/  _/ _/_/     _/    
angel@labein.es   _/  _/ _/     _/  _/   _/          _/ _/  _/ _/       _/     
                 _/  _/ _/_/_/ _/_/   _/_/_/    _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/       _/      
===============================================================================
             | Note: Aldi Soft isn't a software company. It's me. |
             ======================================================

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 08:11:35 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 10:04:06 +0200 (EET)
From: Petri Hakkinen <mystic@tlti.tokem.fi>
Subject: Re: Amos3d Trouble/Bugs
To: Mike Pelletier <mike.pelletier@canrem.com>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <60.936.6587.0C1BEDD4@canrem.com>
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On Wed, 16 Nov 1994, Mike Pelletier wrote:

> I've had my share of troubles with 3D.  I don't know if this will help, but
> have you:
> 
> 1. made sure the object was oriented properly when created in OM?
> 
> 2. set the centre of gravity to the point which you want it to rotate about?
> 
> Also, does anyone know if there is a version of OM that will work under OS2.1?

Yes there is. My friend got it from Europress (or may be straight from 
Voodoo software), so maybe you should ask them.

Petri Hakkinen
mystic@tlti.tokem.fi

> 
> Well met and godspeed,
>                       Giark
> 


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 08:13:02 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 11:57:39 +0100
From: rbeekman <rbeekman@xs4all.nl>
Message-Id: <199411181057.AA17847@xs1.xs4all.nl>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: amos screen bug
Status: RO
X-Status: 


amos ( pro ) has a problem when working with a genlock...
amos ( pro ) can not display a screen if you have not connected a proper 
signal to the video-input of the genlock, instead it will just display a 
black screen.... all functions ( keyboardshortcuts ) seem to work fine, but 
no screen ( editor or programmed ) is displayed ....
even compiled programmes have this problem....
the only exeption is the copperfunction ... ie a rainbowscreen will be 
properly displayed, but any text or graphix on top of that will not be 
displayed at all .... 
connecting ( or disconnecting ) the video-in-signal to the genlock makes the
screendisplay appear ( or disappear ) but does not affect the program 
running any further ....
if you are expierencing these problems, then the above will give you the 
solution on what to do...
if you are writing the much rumoured 'pd' version, then please solve this 
annoying problem ....

rene

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 08:33:22 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 07:26:56 +0000
From: David Hollway <dmh11@tower.york.ac.uk>
X-Sender: dmh11@tower.york.ac.uk
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: uuencode
In-Reply-To: <9411172348.AA00sua@comlink.mpx.com.au>
Message-Id: <Pine.SGI.3.90.941118072125.16798A-100000@tower.york.ac.uk>
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On Thu, 17 Nov 1994, Darryl_Lewis wrote:

> Thanks to all who have replied. BUT please stop telling me to use ">" to
> redirect the out put to a file. It doesn't work. Why? The version of
> uuencode I have drops out if you enter more than 2 arguments and prints an
> error message. ie uuencode file file ----prints to the screen.
>             uuencode file file > encoded_file ----prints uuencode
> [infile]file

Well, the usual Amiga syntax for re-direction is:

 uuencode >outfile source_file

If that doesn't work, then you could perhaps use a combination of 
re-direction to the parallel device (">PAR:") and the CMD program (which 
traps output to PAR or SER: and sticks it in a file. Complicated I know, 
but I seem to remember you saying in an earlier post that you've only got 
OS1.3, which rules out (I think?) the PIPE: device (OS2.04+??).

 If :
   [run CMD, in the utilities directory of the Extras1.3: disk?]
   uuencode >PAR: source_file

 doesn't work, then you've got a VERY brain-dead version of uuencode, and 
its author should be shot for not knowing how to write standard Amiga CLI 
programs. If it's a port from UNIX then he/she has SOME excuse perhaps.. 
but re-direction is such a low-level part of the Amiga OS that I'd have 
thought it was more effort to PREVENT it than to leave it working..

> Is short, I know about redirection, but I have a funny version of uuencode.

I'll say..

Sorry about the long post, folks!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Hollway (dmh11@tower.york.ac.uk)   |   //Amiga 4000-040-SCSI-CDROM-PII-
Dept. of Computer Science, University of | \X/840MB "Amiga - Why Compromise?"
York, York YO1 5DD, ENGLAND.             | In Basel, Switzerland until 12/94
WWW Home: http://www.york.ac.uk/~dmh11/  | Tel: (010 41) 61 6975460
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 08:45:08 1994
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From: Nick Webb (0473) 645883 B83/129 <ncw@pasture.bt.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 11:25:00 GMT
Message-Id: <1635.9411181125@pisces.pasture.bt.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: AMOS Creator incompatible with A600?
Status: RO
X-Status: A

I have a friend who bought a 500 with mountains of assorted software
packages, one of which was AMOS Creator V1.1.  He is no programmer (no
disrespect to him, but if he can't "point and click" he can't do it) so
he gave me his copy of AMOS.

I have a 600 with WB 2.05, and have tried with limited success to run AMOS.

The problems I have are:

1)	occasionally it will not boot up correctly into the editor and

2)	file selectors lock the machine completely! (load, save and FSel$)

My questions are:

1)	has anyone had similar problems, and if so, how were they overcome?

2)	can I upgrade from 1.1 to 1.36 (found on AmiNet) or would I have to 
	go via 1.2 and 1.3 (and would this solve the problem at all)?

3)	should I cut my losses and buy a new package if I want to programme?

Any help on these questions would be very gratefully accepted.

Regards,

Nick Webb  :-D
UNIX:		ncw@pasture.bt.co.uk
A600, 2.05

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 08:49:50 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 10:12:58 +0200 (EET)
From: Petri Hakkinen <mystic@tlti.tokem.fi>
Subject: Re: airTaxi speed
To: Darryl Lewis <Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <9411170202.AA00siu@comlink.mpx.com.au>
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>  MB> - Just buy a C64 and see what was albe to do. See GEOS and then watch
>  MB> Windows... or watch the OLD Elite or the excellent Last Ninja II!
> 
> I think the 64 was a good machine - it has some programming functions (even
> in basic) that amos doesn't have. Yeah, that's right, 
> the 64 has features in basic that Amos doesn't!
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
like what? I happen to have C-64 still and don't recall such commands that 
Amos doesn't have nor tasks amos can't handle. 

Petri Hakkinen
mystic@tlti.tokem.fi

> Somebody fix them please..... Sprite/bob to background collisions I need!
> 
> Darryl
> 
> -- Via DLG Pro v1.0
> 
> 


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 08:50:37 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 10:08:10 +0200 (EET)
From: Petri Hakkinen <mystic@tlti.tokem.fi>
Subject: Re: Second button blues
To: Mike Pelletier <mike.pelletier@canrem.com>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <60.937.6587.0C1BEDE2@canrem.com>
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> 
> X=Deek($DFF016)
> BUTTON2= Not Btst(14,X)
> Print X,BUTTON2
> 
> It starts with values of 21760 for X and 0 for BUTTON2
> 
> As soon as the button is pressed once the values change to 5376 for X and -1
> for BUTTON2.  The problem is, the values NEVER RESET.  Once the second button
> is pressed once, it stays at 5376 and -1 until the computer is reset.

Maybe you could manually reset the value by poking into the address...
Oh, it's in the custom chip register area, so it's "illegal" (you know, 
read or write registers, never both) but it's always worth trying.

Petri Hakkinen
mystic@tlti.tokem.fi
 
> 
> The joystick I use works fine on Lunar-C, Project X, Apidya II, etc. (Games
> which use the second button) so there is no problem with the joystick.
> 
> Is there a location like on the old 8-bit computers where I can check all the
> joystick lines without any software or hardware monkeying around with it?  Like
> the old addresses where Bit 1 was left 2 was right etc?
> 


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 08:51:36 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 10:36:50 +0200 (EET)
From: Petri Hakkinen <mystic@tlti.tokem.fi>
Subject: AMOS 2.1/3.0 or whatever, Improvement idea for AMOS developers
To: Amos list <amos-list@access.digex.net>, adt@clare.tased.edu.au
Message-Id: <Pine.3.87.9411181050.A7160-0100000@tlti>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: RO
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Why not add a raster plane system to Amos ???
It would dramatically reduce the time spent in blitter operations...

For those who don't know the rasterplane system:

Normally bitplanes are stored in memory like this:

   ------------  
   ! plane 1  !
   !          !
   !          !
   ------------
   ! plane 2  !
   !          !
   !          !
   ------------
   !          !
   .          .
   .          .

So if you blit a bob to the screen you have to copy each plane seperately
like this:

   wait for the blitter to finish
   blitcopy plane1
   wait blitter again
   blitcopy plane2
   wait blit
   blit copy plane 3
   and so on

But in raster mode the screen is stored in memory like this:

   -----------------------------------------
   !  plane 1  !  plane 2  !  plane 3  !
   !           !           !           !
   !           !           !           !
   -----------------------------------------

The difference is that now you can actually blit a bob (or icon or anything)
with only *one* blitter operation by choosing a modulo of plane width in
bytes and multiplying the height of the operation with the number of planes.

You have to do only one big blitting instead of several small blits,
but one big operation is actually faster becoz you don't have to wait
every blit in a busyloop and in a big blit the CPU can do something when
the blitter is doing the copying.

Thought all the drawing routines should be rewritten there should
be about 50% (or more, just a guess) speed increase.

At least this should be worth to test... (this is a common trick
in assembly games and demos)

Maybe somebody else has thought about this too???
   
                                           Petri Hakkinen
					   mystic@tlti.tokem.fi
        




From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 10:56:13 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 14:08:35 PST
From: studass <bcollin@mpi.nl>
Subject: Re: Klik 'n Play SUX!!!!!!!!
To: amos mailing list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Message-Id: <ECS9411181435A@mpi.nl>
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On Wed, 16 Nov 1994 13:15:51 GMT-1DFT Jurgen Valks wrote:

> 
> Wo! I just saw Klik 'n Play. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a shit
> program!!!
> 

Could you actually give some information on the programme? I am 
rather curious but do not want to buy a PC to check it out.

Branko Collin
bcollin@mpi.nl

btw. For those who do not know this yet, several PC magazines 
carry (well, more likely carried in the UK) a Click-and-Play demo 
on their coverdisks. 



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 11:14:48 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 12:34:59 +0000
From: David Hollway <dmh11@tower.york.ac.uk>
X-Sender: dmh11@tower.york.ac.uk
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Cc: adt@clare.tased.edu.au
Subject: AMOS "3.0" - my thoughts
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9411181050.A7160-0100000@tlti>
Message-Id: <Pine.SGI.3.90.941118121731.10299A-100000@tower.york.ac.uk>
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Hello,
  Well, I've been reading the messages on this list regarding the 
upgrade to AMOS. Here's a couple of my thoughts on the matter; feel free 
to comment (but no flames please :-) )

1) I'd rather have a *bug-free* version of AMOS, with very few, if any, 
   additional features. If you're going to add loads of new features 
   that's fine - but it'll take time, and I think what is needed is a 
   *stable* version of AMOS _now_. 
2) For heavens' sakes, PLEASE fix the floating point numbers bugs. They
   drove me half-crazy when I was writing a commercial project in AMOS, 
   and were one of the reasons why I now program in C.
3) Make the code more efficient. The size of compiled AMOS programs is 
   ludicrous.. I accept that AMOS will never produce executables that are 
   as small as, say, C or MC68K, (there's a trade-off between friendliness 
   and efficiency!)
4) Err.. (starting to run out of ideas now :-) ) please PLEASE get rid of 
   the brain-dead 16-pixel boundaries for everything. It drives me mad to be 
   able to place a screen at either 128,Y or 136,Y, but nothing in between. 
   When using the command to position the screen, I either lose the 
   left-edge of the screen or the right edge, due to a combination of the 
   stupid 16-pixel increment, and my  display)
   Likewise: why can blocks only be multiples of 16 pixels wide? This for 
   me was one of the most frustrating limitations of AMOS when I was 
   writing my "AMtuition" system. There, you thought for a moment that 
   I'd get through an entire post to this list without mentioning AMtuition, 
   didn't you? ;-)

If the upgrade to AMOS is done sensibly, then AMOS will be a stable 
development environment that can compete with Blitz etc for a good while. 
A flashy, over-the-top upgrade, with 1000 new features that are full of 
bugs will just spell the demise of AMOS. I agree with whoever said that 
the upgrade should be "version 2.5" rather than "version 3.0" - it should 
be an evolutionary development from the current AMOS Pro, rather than a 
radical departure that will itself take 6 revisions and a multitude of 
patches to become useable.

Just my thoughts, of course. I'm not meaning to cast aspersions on the 
programming ability of the development team - far from it, I think 
they're very well equipped to handle the task of upgrading AMOS, and I 
wish them every success.

Anybody care to comment on what I have said?

Thanks,

 David Hollway.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Hollway (dmh11@tower.york.ac.uk)   |   //Amiga 4000-040-SCSI-CDROM-PII-
Dept. of Computer Science, University of | \X/840MB "Amiga - Why Compromise?"
York, York YO1 5DD, ENGLAND.             | In Basel, Switzerland until 12/94
WWW Home: http://www.york.ac.uk/~dmh11/  | Tel: (010 41) 61 6975460
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 11:26:16 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 14:19:41 PST
From: studass <bcollin@mpi.nl>
Subject: ideas (free, gratis, etc.)
To: amos mailing list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Message-Id: <ECS9411181441A@mpi.nl>
Priority: Normal
Mime-Version: 1.0
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These are just some things I thought of recently:

-If you are making a game freeware, but still want some response, 
why not make it alienware. Ask the user to send in his/her own 
aliens, cars, footballplayers, whatever, as long as they stick to 
a required size. This might be the kind of incentive that could 
nudge all but the most braindead in action.

-Marco Beretta was talking about a wp/editor for POV.
0 Why has not anybody used Amos3D to make an editor for 
raytracers (I have not got it myself, otherwise I would have had 
a go at one for DKB-trace myself).
0 There are a lot of tricks known to computerlinguists to boost 
performance of wps. I have recently started making an intelligent 
spellchecker. Due to the fact that I have the lowest 
attentionspan I never finished it though. If anyone is interested 
they can have it.

Erm... well, that is it really. The rest I forgot.

Branko Collin
bcollin@mpi.nl



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 11:45:32 1994
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From: Joseph_Zaccardi_at_USPRMG41@internetmail.pr.cyanamid.com
Message-Id: <9410187851.AA785176645@internetmail.pr.cyanamid.com>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Amos Improvement Suggestions
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Cast another vote for bob/sprite--background collisions!  With AGA 256 color 
choices you could get really sophisticated choices without all that "zone" 
definition nonsense. 

 Another feature I sorely miss is background--player priority.  In other words 
if you draw your trees or rocks in specific colors, your bob will automatically 
disappear when walking behind a specific collection of colors (i.e. "tree"). 
It's a pain having to use bobs for all the forground scenery.



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 12:29:38 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 09:02:58 -0500
From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411181402.AA29687@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS Creator incompatible with A600?
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>I have a friend who bought a 500 with mountains of assorted software
>packages, one of which was AMOS Creator V1.1.  He is no programmer (no
                                         ^^^^
  I didn't know anyone still had such an old version... UPGRADE!  

[...]
>2)	can I upgrade from 1.1 to 1.36 (found on AmiNet) or would I have to 
>	go via 1.2 and 1.3 (and would this solve the problem at all)?

  Just get AMOS Pro - it's much better.  If that's not an option, upgrading
to 1.36 should work.

  --Andy Church

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 12:32:18 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 08:59:33 -0500
From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411181359.AA26863@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS "3.0" - my thoughts
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>  Well, I've been reading the messages on this list regarding the 
>upgrade to AMOS. Here's a couple of my thoughts on the matter; feel free 
>to comment (but no flames please :-) )
>
>1) I'd rather have a *bug-free* version of AMOS, with very few, if any, 
>   additional features. If you're going to add loads of new features 
>   that's fine - but it'll take time, and I think what is needed is a 
>   *stable* version of AMOS _now_.

  Absolutely.  That's exactly what we're planning - fix bugs first, add
features later.

>2) For heavens' sakes, PLEASE fix the floating point numbers bugs. They
>   drove me half-crazy when I was writing a commercial project in AMOS, 
>   and were one of the reasons why I now program in C.
>3) Make the code more efficient. The size of compiled AMOS programs is 
>   ludicrous.. I accept that AMOS will never produce executables that are 
>   as small as, say, C or MC68K, (there's a trade-off between friendliness 
>   and efficiency!)

  Both problems are probably the result of Francois' horrible coding.

>4) Err.. (starting to run out of ideas now :-) ) please PLEASE get rid of 
>   the brain-dead 16-pixel boundaries for everything. It drives me mad to be 
>   able to place a screen at either 128,Y or 136,Y, but nothing in between. 
>   When using the command to position the screen, I either lose the 
>   left-edge of the screen or the right edge, due to a combination of the 
>   stupid 16-pixel increment, and my  display)

  I've always wondered why that was.  Or, rather, I did until I discovered
how horrible Francois' coding was.

>   Likewise: why can blocks only be multiples of 16 pixels wide? This for 
>   me was one of the most frustrating limitations of AMOS when I was 
>   writing my "AMtuition" system. There, you thought for a moment that 
>   I'd get through an entire post to this list without mentioning AMtuition, 
>   didn't you? ;-)

  Of course not.  And, of course, I'm obligated to say that it can't compete
with my Intuition Extension. :-)  The 16-pixel limitation is probably there
because it was easier for Francois to code.  Sigh.

  --Andy Church

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 12:49:54 1994
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	id AA06967; Fri, 18 Nov 94 09:58:36 CST
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 09:58:36 CST
From: hugor@staff.udg.mx (Hugo Ramses -Multimedia)
Message-Id: <9411181558.AA06967@staff.udg.mx>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Amiga Mosaic
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Somebody ask for it, but I can't remember who:

From: owner-i-amiga
To: Multiple recipients of list I-AMIGA
Subject: Mosaic Amiga
Date: Thursday, November 17, 1994 6:24PM

In case anyone is interested . . .


Mosaic-Amiga can be found at :
        sunsite.unc.edu
through anonymous ftp

Location is :
        /pub/packages/infosystems/WWW/clients/Mosaic/Mosaic-Amiga


_________________________
Hugo Ramses Moreno Ramos
hugor@cosmos.staff.udg.mx
Guadalajara, Mexico

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 13:32:01 1994
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	id AA26924; Fri, 18 Nov 94 11:38:21 EST
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 11:38:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Timothy E. Wright" <tewright@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: mosaic responses...
To: AMOS list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9411181110.A25984-0100000@kong.syr.edu>
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Status: RO
X-Status: 

   Thank you very much to everyone who responded to my post about 
Mosaic!!  I've downloaded AmiTCP and AMosiac from aminet.  I guess I was 
just looking in all the wrong places (even on aminet itself) for the 
information and software.  Thanks again to everyone who pointed me in the 
right direction! :)

-=========}==*  Tim Wright - "Argh!" - tewright@mailbox.syr.edu  *=={=========-


From MAILER-DAEMON@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 13:33:45 1994
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From: Kimmo Veijalainen <Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi>
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Subject: Another one bites the dust :-)
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 16:52:22 +0200 (EET)
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I found another compiler bug.

Sometimes "SDFSDF=True" is not compiled right.
Dunno about "IEUREOIR=False".
I changed all "False" words to 0 and "True":s to 1 and now the program I 
had problems with works ok... :-O


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 14:13:22 1994
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Subject: intuition
From: mike.pelletier@canrem.com (Mike Pelletier)
Message-Id: <60.974.6587.0C1BF40F@canrem.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 10:55:00 -0500
Organization: CRS Online  (Toronto, Ontario)
Status: RO
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Where do I find the intuition extension?  Where are the patches for APro2.0 (if
there are any yet)?

Is there any way for me to get these files from someone?

Well met and godspeed,
                      Giark

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 14:28:11 1994
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Subject: Re: Second button blues
From: mike.pelletier@canrem.com (Mike Pelletier)
Message-Id: <60.973.6587.0C1BF40E@canrem.com>
In-Reply-To: <9411171325.AA18611@goober.mbhs.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 10:48:00 -0500
Organization: CRS Online  (Toronto, Ontario)
Status: RO
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Andy:
>  $DFF016 (POTGOR) is as close as you get.  Bit 14 contains the current state
>of pin 9 on port 2, which is the pin usually used for a second button (and
>for the right mouse button).  Try it with a mouse - if that doesn't work, one
>of your chips is probably shot.

It works fine with a mouse, but I don't want to detect a button on a mouse.
The joystick is fine, works with all second button software I have found, even
works if I plug it into port 1 and use it as mouse buttons.


Well met and godspeed,
                      Giark

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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 13:16:28 +0500
From: marty@cs.hope.edu (Ben Marty)
Message-Id: <9411181816.AA02550@pippin.cs.hope.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net, Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi
Subject: Re: Another one bites the dust :-)
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> I found another compiler bug.
> 
> Sometimes "SDFSDF=True" is not compiled right.
> Dunno about "IEUREOIR=False".
> I changed all "False" words to 0 and "True":s to 1 and now the program I 
> had problems with works ok... :-O

	The correct value of TRUE is -1 (all bits are 1). 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 15:18:37 1994
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 11:31:39 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: uuencode
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
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On Thu, 17 Nov 1994, Darryl Lewis wrote:

> Thanks to all who have replied. BUT please stop telling me to use ">" to
> redirect the out put to a file. It doesn't work. Why? The version of
> uuencode I have drops out if you enter more than 2 arguments and prints an
> error message. ie uuencode file file ----prints to the screen.
>             uuencode file file > encoded_file ----prints uuencode
> [infile]file
> 
> Is short, I know about redirection, but I have a funny version of uuencode.
> I need a version which works and allows redirection or output to a file on
> the amiga.
> If not, I'll dissasemble the code and rewrite it as a last ditch effort!
>

	Try 'UUx' from Aminet... its great... 

					mike


 
> Darryl
> 
> -- Via DLG Pro v1.0
> 
> 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 18 16:16:58 1994
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          18 Nov 94 19:13 GMT
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 94 10:34:07 GMT
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Organization: Fortune Software
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From: Dominic Ramsey <dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk>
To: Amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: 2nd Second button on the joystick
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> Could I extent this question, I have about the same question..
> 
> Does anybody have the address of either mouse/joy-port.
> 
> I don't want to read 2 buttons   but 5 !  (The original CD32 PAD) !

It is not possible to acurately read all the buttons on the CD32 pad
from memory locations.

You will need 2 things to do it properly:-

1. Nigel Crittens Sticks2 extension
   (contact ncritten@cix.compulink.co.uk).

2 lowlevel.library
  (from Workbench 3.1 disk)

Regards,

Dominic

--
Dominic Ramsey      email: dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk
http://www.gate.net/user/play/people/dramsey.html

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From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: Darryl Lewis <Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: uuencode
In-Reply-To: <9411172348.AA00sua@comlink.mpx.com.au>
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Status: RO
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On Thu, 17 Nov 1994, Darryl Lewis wrote:

> Thanks to all who have replied. BUT please stop telling me to use ">" to
> redirect the out put to a file. It doesn't work. Why? The version of
> uuencode I have drops out if you enter more than 2 arguments and prints an
> error message. ie uuencode file file ----prints to the screen.
>             uuencode file file > encoded_file ----prints uuencode
> [infile]file
> 
> Is short, I know about redirection, but I have a funny version of uuencode.
> I need a version which works and allows redirection or output to a file on
> the amiga.
> If not, I'll dissasemble the code and rewrite it as a last ditch effort!
> 
> Darryl
> 
> -- Via DLG Pro v1.0
> 
> 
Try cheating then.  Make a script file containing uuencode file file and 
then EXECUTE >outfile.uu scriptfile

This way the redirection SHOULD work and you still use the same argument 
line as before.

Dave May

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Organization: UltiMedia Graphics
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From: Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS "3.0" - my thoughts
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Andy Church <achurch@goober.mbhs.edu> wrote:

> >4) Err.. (starting to run out of ideas now :-) ) please PLEASE get rid of 
> >   the brain-dead 16-pixel boundaries for everything. It drives me mad to be 
> >   able to place a screen at either 128,Y or 136,Y, but nothing in between. 
> >   When using the command to position the screen, I either lose the 
> >   left-edge of the screen or the right edge, due to a combination of the 
> >   stupid 16-pixel increment, and my  display)
> 
>   I've always wondered why that was.  Or, rather, I did until I discovered
> how horrible Francois' coding was.

Hey Andy,

Does this mean that Europress have sent you the source code??

To the guy with the Amos Creator 1.1 that won't work on his A600;
Wait till the Christmas issue of Amiga Format and get Amos Pro *free*
Hand on to the Amos 1.1 manual as it will shed more light on the commands
than AF will do :^p

G.
--
Gareth D. Edwards, 25 Somerville Green, Leeds, West Yorkshire, England.  
E-Address: config@ultim.demon.co.uk
Web Home Page: http://www.gate.net/amos/play/people/GarethEdwards.html
Editor of the Seal FAQ and Future Love Paradise W3 site.

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>From !amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri, 18 Nov 94 18:32:59 GMT
Return-Path: <amos-request@svcs1.digex.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 10:36:50 +0200 (EET)
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From: Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk>
From: Petri Hakkinen <mystic@tlti.tokem.fi>
To: decode@ultim.demon.co.uk, amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: AMOS 2.1/3.0 or whatever, Improvement idea for AMOS developers


Why not add a raster plane system to Amos ???
It would dramatically reduce the time spent in blitter operations...

For those who don't know the rasterplane system:

Normally bitplanes are stored in memory like this:

   ------------  
   ! plane 1  !
   !          !
   !          !
   ------------
   ! plane 2  !
   !          !
   !          !
   ------------
   !          !
   .          .
   .          .

So if you blit a bob to the screen you have to copy each plane seperately
like this:

   wait for the blitter to finish
   blitcopy plane1
   wait blitter again
   blitcopy plane2
   wait blit
   blit copy plane 3
   and so on

But in raster mode the screen is stored in memory like this:

   -----------------------------------------
   !  plane 1  !  plane 2  !  plane 3  !
   !           !           !           !
   !           !           !           !
   -----------------------------------------

The difference is that now you can actually blit a bob (or icon or anything)
with only *one* blitter operation by choosing a modulo of plane width in
bytes and multiplying the height of the operation with the number of planes.

You have to do only one big blitting instead of several small blits,
but one big operation is actually faster becoz you don't have to wait
every blit in a busyloop and in a big blit the CPU can do something when
the blitter is doing the copying.

Thought all the drawing routines should be rewritten there should
be about 50% (or more, just a guess) speed increase.

At least this should be worth to test... (this is a common trick
in assembly games and demos)

Maybe somebody else has thought about this too???
   
                                           Petri Hakkinen
					   mystic@tlti.tokem.fi
        





From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sat Nov 19 14:39:32 1994
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From: Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au (Darryl Lewis)
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: airTaxi speed
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> I think the 64 was a good machine - it has some programming functions
(even
> in basic) that amos doesn't have. Yeah, that's right, 
> the 64 has features in basic that Amos doesn't!
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 PH> like what? I happen to have C-64 still and don't recall such commands
 PH> that 
 PH> Amos doesn't have nor tasks amos can't handle. 

  Petri,
I mentioned the 1 of the commands missing in the mail that you cut the
above from!
Namely, bob/sprite to background collisions. There is no way to detect if a
bob/sprite touches a piece of back ground. 
Oh, I know about using the point command, but if you have a complicated
object, you have a lot of points. SLOW!!
Also the point command needs to touch exactly on the background. In my case
a leg of a rocket ship touching a line. I'd need points all around the ship
to see if it had touched the line anywhere else other that the leg.

Darryl

-- Via DLG Pro v1.0


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sat Nov 19 16:28:20 1994
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 13:28:23 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: Darryl Lewis <Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: airTaxi speed
In-Reply-To: <9411200031.AA00tbl@comlink.mpx.com.au>
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I wish AMOS would allow masks for backdround collision.  It really 
wouldn't be that hard... I don't see why it wasn't implemented.

    ...  (Francois Lionet)  ...

Oh, now I see why it wasn't implemented :)

Dave May

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Organization: Fortune Software
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From: Dominic Ramsey <dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Amos Improvement Suggestions
Status: RO
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Joseph_Zaccardi_at_USPRMG41@internetmail.pr.cyanamid.com wrote:
> 
> Cast another vote for bob/sprite--background collisions!  With AGA 256 color 
> choices you could get really sophisticated choices without all that "zone" 
> definition nonsense. 

How about irregular shaped zones. Instead of just rectangular, they would
be defined in the same was as polygons.

Dom 

--
Dominic Ramsey      email: dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk
http://www.gate.net/user/play/people/dramsey.html

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From: Dominic Ramsey <dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS "3.0" - my thoughts
Status: RO
X-Status: 

transvestite@ultim.demon.co.uk "Gareth Edwards" wrote:

> To the guy with the Amos Creator 1.1 that won't work on his A600;
> Wait till the Christmas issue of Amiga Format and get Amos Pro *free*
> Hand on to the Amos 1.1 manual as it will shed more light on the commands
> than AF will do :^p

I'm mad! Europress are giving away MY games without even telling me! I
don't remember giving them permission to do this. :-|

Oh well, it's a good job they were only crap games.

Dom

--
Dominic Ramsey      email: dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk
http://www.gate.net/user/play/people/dramsey.html

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From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411192234.AA12302@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS "3.0" - my thoughts
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>> >4) Err.. (starting to run out of ideas now :-) ) please PLEASE get rid of 
>> >   the brain-dead 16-pixel boundaries for everything. It drives me mad to be 
>> >   able to place a screen at either 128,Y or 136,Y, but nothing in between. 
>> >   When using the command to position the screen, I either lose the 
>> >   left-edge of the screen or the right edge, due to a combination of the 
>> >   stupid 16-pixel increment, and my  display)
>> 
>>   I've always wondered why that was.  Or, rather, I did until I discovered
>> how horrible Francois' coding was.
>
>Hey Andy,
>
>Does this mean that Europress have sent you the source code??

  I wish!  What I've gathered from looking through a reassembler listing
tells me enough, though.  For example, what programmer in his right mind
would use ILLEGAL instructions to catch errors?  Well, Francois did.

  --Andy Church

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sat Nov 19 19:30:52 1994
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From: Kimmo Veijalainen <Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi>
Message-Id: <199411192240.AAA13220@liero.cc.lut.fi>
Subject: Re: airTaxi speed
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 00:40:17 +0200 (EET)
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Forwarded message:

> I wish AMOS would allow masks for backdround collision.  It really 
> wouldn't be that hard... I don't see why it wasn't implemented.
> 
>     ...  (Francois Lionet)  ...
> 
> Oh, now I see why it wasn't implemented :)
> 
> Dave May

Don't be too hard on Francois... he did a terrific job with Amos.
Well, it has n^2 bugs, but anyway... :-)

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sun Nov 20 09:20:38 1994
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Date: Sun, 20 Nov 94 13:06:41 GMT
Message-Id: <9411201306.AA0020w@ultim.demon.co.uk>
Organization: UltiMedia Graphics
X-Mailviewer: Mail 1.14
From: Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS "3.0" - my thoughts
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Dominic Ramsey <dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk> wrote:
 
> transvestite@ultim.demon.co.uk "Gareth Edwards" wrote:
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^
For those interested, Demonic<!> is refering to a thread on one of our
Internet providers newsgroups. I happened to bring up the fact that I'd
been to the The Rocky Horror Show at a local theatre, wearing only a basque
and stockings+suspenders and other essential<?> underwear. Of course, every-
body else who was there was wearing similar kit (including the ladies, I
hasten to add :)

> > To the guy with the Amos Creator 1.1 that won't work on his A600;
> > Wait till the Christmas issue of Amiga Format and get Amos Pro *free*
> > Hand on to the Amos 1.1 manual as it will shed more light on the commands
> > than AF will do :^p
> 
> I'm mad! Europress are giving away MY games without even telling me! I
> don't remember giving them permission to do this. :-|

Are you sure you didn't sign any document giving Europrats free use of the
software???
 
> Oh well, it's a good job they were only crap games.

You said it Dom ! :)


G. (I'm just a sweet transvestite, from transexual Transilvania.)
--
Gareth D. Edwards, 25 Somerville Green, Leeds, West Yorkshire, England.  
E-Address: config@ultim.demon.co.uk
Web Home Page: http://www.gate.net/amos/play/people/GarethEdwards.html
Editor of the Seal FAQ and Future Love Paradise W3 site.

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sun Nov 20 13:01:28 1994
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Date: Sun, 20 Nov 94 16:43:47 GMT
Message-Id: <9411201643.AA005ss@dynamo.demon.co.uk>
Organization: Fortune Software
X-Mailviewer: Mail 1.12
From: Dominic Ramsey <dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Easy AMOS cheat
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Seeing as Amiga Computing are giving away Easy AMOS, I thought some of
you might be interested in a little cheat for the Easy AMOS Challenge
(yeah, right).

Anyway, if you want to see the graduation bit, without completing the
quiz, do the following...

1. Load the program Easy_tutorial:Challenge/Graduate.AMOS
2. Comment out (or delete) the CHECKGRAD line
3. Insert the line RAD=190570 directly below the CHECKGRAD line.
4. Click 'Run'

Wow! Amazing isn't it? :)

(BTW, 190570 is my D.O.B. in case you're wondering / want to send me 
 a present!)

Dominic.

--
Dominic Ramsey      email: dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk
http://www.gate.net/user/play/people/dramsey.html

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sun Nov 20 13:39:18 1994
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Organization: Fortune Software
X-Mailviewer: Mail 1.12
From: Dominic Ramsey <dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS "3.0" - my thoughts
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Gareth Edwards wrote:

> Dominic Ramsey <dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>  
> > transvestite@ultim.demon.co.uk "Gareth Edwards" wrote:
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Did I write that!? Sorry Gareth, must have been daydreaming. :)

> > I'm mad! Europress are giving away MY games without even telling me! I
> > don't remember giving them permission to do this. :-|
> 
> Are you sure you didn't sign any document giving Europrats free use of the
> software???

The only thing I signed was a non-disclosure agreement.

They gave me 600 quid, and I gave them the games. (Not bad for 2 PD
quality games, really.)


> > Oh well, it's a good job they were only crap games.
> 
> You said it Dom ! :)

Indeed I did. In fact, my mum helped design Quatro! (Notice the C.Ramsey bit
in the credits). I've no idea how playable it is, coz I've never played
it properly.

Dom

--
Dominic Ramsey      email: dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk
http://www.gate.net/user/play/people/dramsey.html

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sun Nov 20 20:26:13 1994
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Date: Sun, 20 Nov 94 19:26:50 GMT
Message-Id: <9411201926.AA0022f@ultim.demon.co.uk>
Organization: UltiMedia Graphics
X-Mailviewer: Mail 1.14
From: Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS "3.0" - my thoughts
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Dominic Ramsey <dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Gareth Edwards wrote:
> > Dominic Ramsey <dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> > > I'm mad! Europress are giving away MY games without even telling me! I
> > > don't remember giving them permission to do this. :-|

> > Are you sure you didn't sign any document giving Europrats free use of the
> > software???
 
> The only thing I signed was a non-disclosure agreement.
 
> They gave me 600 quid, and I gave them the games. (Not bad for 2 PD
> quality games, really.)

Oops! There you go, you've gone and disclosed it all now :)

I would imagine that the 600 quid paid for any distribution of your work,
coverdisk or nay.
Like you say, 600UKP isn't at all bad. It'd keep me in Net access for one
phone bill :(

> > > Oh well, it's a good job they were only crap games.

> > You said it Dom ! :)
 
> Indeed I did. In fact, my mum helped design Quatro! (Notice the C.Ramsey bit
> in the credits). I've no idea how playable it is, coz I've never played
> it properly.

So who did the play-testing?
Wait, don't tell me. I don't want to know 8^@


*NEWS FLASH: Now for some Amos related stuff;*


Anybody fancy doing an Amos version of Mosaic???

I could handle the front end, all I'd need is somebody to write the
http comms engine and datatypes handling.

Andy, does the intuition.ext handle datatypes??

I wrote my own hypermedia program back before I had net access.
The images are not in-line and the markup language isn't HTML, but
I could change the markup language quite easily.

Any offers??

G.
--
Gareth D. Edwards, Leeds, West Yorkshire, England.  
E-Address: config@ultim.demon.co.uk
Web Home Page: http://www.gate.net/amos/play/people/GarethEdwards.html
Editor of the Seal FAQ and Future Love Paradise W3 site.

From Mathieu.Dhondt@rug.ac.be Mon Nov 21 03:05:40 1994
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	id AA03687; Mon, 21 Nov 1994 08:58:55 --100
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 08:58:55 +0100 (MET)
From: Flint <Mathieu.Dhondt@rug.ac.be>
To: Paul Hickman <ph@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Cc: Dolfan in VA <mcox@access.digex.net>,
        AMOS Mailing List <amos-list@access.digex.net>, ph@doc.ic.ac.uk
Subject: EasyLife
In-Reply-To: <"swan.doc.i.001:17.10.94.15.31.13"@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.91.941121085415.3188C-100000@eduserv>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Length: 590
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Maybe this question is just plain stupid, but well, here goes.
Paul, I got your EasyLife, and thanks to the excellent AMOSGuide you 
wrote, the essentials of linked lists are in my reach. What I still do 
not understand though, is how it is possible to pick out a structure 
content. I mean, what if I had a structure like the arche-structure (car, 
driver,...) and I wanted to find out what age Mr. X has. I've only got 
his name, so how do I find the rest of the data concerning him?

I thought I should post this to everybody on the list. Please say so if 
you think I oughtn't.

Flint.

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 21 04:36:00 1994
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Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 02:18:41 -0500
From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411210718.AA29399@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS "3.0" - my thoughts
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>Anybody fancy doing an Amos version of Mosaic???
>
>I could handle the front end, all I'd need is somebody to write the
>http comms engine and datatypes handling.
>
>Andy, does the intuition.ext handle datatypes??

  No.  Anyone want to give me a copy of datatypes.library? :-)

  --Andy Church

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 21 07:05:31 1994
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To: Flint <Mathieu.Dhondt@rug.ac.be>, amos-list@access.digex.net
Cc: ph@doc.ic.ac.uk
Subject: Re: EasyLife
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 21 Nov 1994 08:58:55 +0100." <Pine.SOL.3.91.941121085415.3188C-100000@eduserv>
X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5phi 9/15/94
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 10:19:35 +0000
From: Paul Hickman <ph@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <"swan.doc.i.819:21.10.94.10.19.44"@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Status: RO
X-Status: 



> Maybe this question is just plain stupid, but well, here goes.
> Paul, I got your EasyLife, and thanks to the excellent AMOSGuide you 
> wrote, the essentials of linked lists are in my reach. What I still do 
> not understand though, is how it is possible to pick out a structure 
> content. I mean, what if I had a structure like the arche-structure (car, 
> driver,...) and I wanted to find out what age Mr. X has. I've only got 
> his name, so how do I find the rest of the data concerning him?
> 
OK, the structure for simplicity is a linked list:

'structures begin
'
'person : structure
'    next   : pointer to person
'    name : string length 20
'    age    : integer from 0 to 150
'end
'
'structures end

(Excuse the layout - I'm using a proportional font)

Now you have a particular person, say "fred", and you want to find his age. 
Assume L
is the variable which points to the head of the list.

Procedure LOOKUP_AGE[L,NAME$]
While L
    If St Get$(L,ST_NAME)=NAME$
        Pop Proc[St Get(L,ST_AGE)]
    End If
   L=St Get(L,ST_NEXT)
Wend
'
'Insert error code here for when NAME$ is not on the list
'
'e.g. Return an illegal age.
End Proc[-1]

Then, to find fred's age:

LOOKUP_AGE[L,"fred"] : AGE=Param


For more efficiency, use a tree instead of a list.


+-------------------------+------------------------------------+
|                         |    _____                           |
| PAUL HICKMAN            |   /     \   ON A HOT SUMMER NIGHT  |
| (ph@doc.ic.ac.uk)       |  /  O O  \  WOULD YOU  OFFER YOUR  |
| DEPARTMENT OF COMPUTING | |    _    | THROAT  TO  THE  WOLF  |
| IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON |  \  / \  /  WITH THE RED  ROSES ?  |
|                         |   \_____/                          |
+-------------------------+------------------------------------+
Machines: Amiga 500  WB1.3 - 1mb Memory - External Disk Drive.
          Amiga 1200 WB3.0 - 2mb Memory - 200Mb Hard Disk.


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 21 18:22:06 1994
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Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 21:27:16 +0100
From: rbeekman <rbeekman@xs4all.nl>
Message-Id: <199411212027.AA06654@xs1.xs4all.nl>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: amos pro pd ...
Status: RO
X-Status: 


this may be somewhat late but as i am not on the list yet ... i had to
download the monthly-message-file from aminet ....
( anybody any good suggests on good offline mail/news-reader-systems ??? )
first of all congratulations to andy and friends ....
i trust you will do a better job in supporting amos than europress have...
furthermore, concerning bugfixes/updates etc, yes i have 'some' wishes....
so ... here we go ...
apart from the obvious... which naturally include;
- full aga-support
- fully intuition-compliant
- multitasking
- 68060 support...
some really very necessary changes;
- screen commands are bogus....
16 pixel boundery bullshit should be abolished asap
it is not possible to open a true video-overscan-sized image
settings i use are;
Rem *** open a 16 colour Hires screen
Screen Close 0 : Screen Open 0,704,304,16,Hires
Screen Display 0,96,16,704,304
which gives me a screen that somewhat resembles video-overscan...
although it is a couple of pixels short both in x and y axes and shifted
left too far ... ( its been fitted using genlock overlay )
opening a screen that is 16 pixels wider and/or larger fock-up the display
( try cls 1 .... gives some sort of 'shifted-broken-lines-noise' ) and is a
little larger than video-overscan ....
- i use amos pro v2.0 under ks/wb 3.0 and i haven't yet gotten it to use the
standard wb-mouse-pointer.... ( as was suggested in one of last months
messages .. )
neither does amos use the preference settings for the mouse, resulting in a
ks0.9 style 'get-a-truck-if-you-want-me-to-move-a-little" mouse ....
- the editor should just be deleted....
maybe make some way to interface all other facilities with Ced....
( ie help, interpreter, etc.... )
- along with the editor; get rid of the requestors used... they are far
insuperior to req.requestors.....
- support for standard system-clipboards .... that way one can use
powersnap to grab paths etc ... from eg dopus ... instead of learning them
by heart and having to type them out manually ....
also this would be handy when using the help facility ... snap and paste
example syntaxes ... the current editor does not allow this ...
the current amosclipboard gets erased way to soon ... with every F1, F2 or
even F3 call .... they should remain in memory much longer and preferably
have a history-function ( adjustable buffer )
- the object editor is a drag when using hires,laced screens and trying to
grab larger bobs ( 150, 150 ) ...
it has great difficulty grabbing and storing these bobs, often just
grabbing part of it ... changing buffersizes etc will sometimes help
partially but not always and not all of the time .... ( haven't figured out
when and why yet )
-screen routines should be bugfixed, when using a genlock amos can only
display a screen ( any screen except rainbows ) when you feed the genlock
with a video-signal in .... this is not always necessary / desirable ....
and it is a bug that was fixed in other (titling) software ages ago ....
- why not save scripts in ascii format ( they certainly are smaller ... )
at least better support ascii merge ....
current system does not recognize / use empty lines and tabs ....

so there is a lot to do in system- and userfriendlyness ....
i would like to be able to do up- and downloads and at the same time work
on a script in amos ....

well folks thats it for now .....
if i have anything else you'll find it here....

p.s on knowing whether or not something is written in amos....
try a hex read of the binary and do a stringsearch for 'AMOS' ....
this will produce over 20 'hits' when the amos.library is linked into the
executable .... less if not ...
and when was the last time you were reminded that your system-executables
have been written in sas/c ???

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 21 21:14:36 1994
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From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411212350.AA25376@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: amos pro pd ...
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>apart from the obvious... which naturally include;
>- full aga-support
>- fully intuition-compliant

>- multitasking

  AMOS already multitasks!  (OK, so it doesn't do so well...)

>- 68060 support...

  Umm... what do you mean?  The 68060 is backwards-compatible, right?

>some really very necessary changes;
>- screen commands are bogus....
>16 pixel boundery bullshit should be abolished asap

  Yes, we know.

>- i use amos pro v2.0 under ks/wb 3.0 and i haven't yet gotten it to use the
>standard wb-mouse-pointer.... ( as was suggested in one of last months
>messages .. )

  When I figure out how, I'll let you know.  (My previous idea didn't seem
to rowk.)

>neither does amos use the preference settings for the mouse, resulting in a
>ks0.9 style 'get-a-truck-if-you-want-me-to-move-a-little" mouse ....

  I wouldn't know - my mouse is broken and I have to use a joystick instead.

>- the editor should just be deleted....
>maybe make some way to interface all other facilities with Ced....
>( ie help, interpreter, etc.... )

  If you don't like the editor, don't use it.  Just write your programs in
whatever editor you do like, load them into AMOS with Merge Ascii, and run
them.  Or leave the interpreter out entirely and use the compiler.  There
are some of us who *like* the editor, though.

>- along with the editor; get rid of the requestors used... they are far
>insuperior to req.requestors.....

  This is something that will probably come with Intuition integration.

>- support for standard system-clipboards .... that way one can use
>powersnap to grab paths etc ... from eg dopus ... instead of learning them
>by heart and having to type them out manually ....
>also this would be handy when using the help facility ... snap and paste
>example syntaxes ... the current editor does not allow this ...
>the current amosclipboard gets erased way to soon ... with every F1, F2 or
>even F3 call .... they should remain in memory much longer and preferably
>have a history-function ( adjustable buffer )
>-screen routines should be bugfixed, when using a genlock amos can only
>display a screen ( any screen except rainbows ) when you feed the genlock
>with a video-signal in .... this is not always necessary / desirable ....
>and it is a bug that was fixed in other (titling) software ages ago ....
>- why not save scripts in ascii format ( they certainly are smaller ... )
>at least better support ascii merge ....
>current system does not recognize / use empty lines and tabs ....

  Noted.

  --Andy Church

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 21 21:14:46 1994
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From: Kimmo Veijalainen <Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi>
Message-Id: <199411212339.BAA11817@liero.cc.lut.fi>
Subject: Another AmosPro bug
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 01:39:50 +0200 (EET)
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I managed to jam the machine by using "Trap Ellipse" and giving it some 
weird values accidentally.

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 21 23:49:54 1994
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Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 19:25:02 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
To: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
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	First I want to say that I am a member of ADT which is going
to be doing Amos Upgrades (although so far all I have done is 
dissassemble with resource and play with it a bit)... 

	I have been reading all these post's about what people want
to see in Amos... and I agree with just about everyone... except for
that I want to Abolish Amos all together... yes I like Amos but lets
face it.. its a crappy language with awsome fucntions... 

	What I would like to see is Amos be replaced by C... but 
with the Amos functionality.  Basically this means implementing
the amos fcns in C... this doesn't mean I don't want to upgrade
Amos.. because I do... but eventually I think going to C would be
the best... I know lots of people don't know C but truthfully its
really easy to learn... the hard part is learning the Amiga specifics...
But MARP (Mike's Amos Replacement Project :) ) would take of a lot
of that.. this way people that don't know or don't care to know 
about some Amiga Specifics don't have to but on the other hand the
people that do can totally expand on MARP.. just use it as a frame
work... 

	What about Extensions and Previously Written Programs ?  Well
if MARP becomes a 100% replacment then a translator could be used
to get Amos prgs converted... but I am not to sure about how to
convert extensions... but on the other hand extensions could be Awsome
because you could have an infinite Number of them and also because
think about how much C code is out there ?  It would have been a lot
easier for Andy to write his Intuition Extension in C... and would
still be totally useful if Amos went to C...

	I realize Amos has a lot of functionality and is not going
to be easy to convert to C and with some of the same speed.. but
this way you can lose almost all the Amos pitfalls and bugs...
(And if the OS changes updating MARP would be so much easier...)


	I started fooling around with MARP and I coded some basic
fcns like Open/Close Screen | Plot | Point | Text.. etc etc.. here
is a piece of code I was testing...

	void M_main(void) <-- M_main = MARP_main
	{

		int i,j;

		M_OpenScreen(1,640,400,NCOLS_8,HIRES,"Screen 1",NULL);
		  /* the null is because you pass in your own taglist
		     this lets you do anything you want */

		M_SetFGCol(2); /* ie. Ink 2 */

		for( i=0 ; i<M_ScreenHeight() ; i++ )
			for( j=0 ; j<M_ScreenWidht() ; j++) {
				M_Text("Cheese",M_MouseX(),M_MouseY());
				M_Plot(j,i);
			}
		
		M_Wait(10); 
		

		M_OpenScreen(2,640,100,NCOLS_8,HIRES,"Scr 2",NULL);

		M_SetCurrScreen(2); /* ie. Screen 2 */

		i=M_Point(10,10);

		
	}

	It automatically Close the Screens for you but if you to
do it you just can cal M_CloseScreen()...

	What to you guys think of this ?  I think with MARP the
transition from AMos-2-C could be a lot smoother... basically the
hardest part would have to learn some C syntax... I even have
C tutorial on disk written by Kernighan himeself.. 


				waiting for your responses

							mike

	

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 02:30:01 1994
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Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 22:42:45 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Cc: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411211840.A23533-0100000@nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca>
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I'm afraid I will be attacked for saying this, but I agree with your 
effort to move AMOS to a C-orientation rather than a BASIC one.  However, 
you must note that people spend >90% in the editor: If you make the 
transition to C, don't force us to use crummy text editors or anything 
like the AMOS editor to do the job.  I believe that for programmers to be 
happy, there needs to be color-coded tokenising, hidden code similar to 
the locking/unlocking of procedures in conventional AMOS, and an 
interface like the best word processors around.  None of thisw 
right-button-to-select-a-block garbage.  Just highlight it like in a word 
processor and hit backspace and it's gone.

Compile-and-run is a must.  I like blitz basic for this.  And still the 
ability to compile from a shell.

Anyway I will have more to say later, but for the moment I would like to 
hear other replies.

Dave

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 03:03:19 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 08:39:17 +200 (WET)
From: Marko Turunen <marturun@messi.uku.fi>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
To: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Cc: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411211840.A23533-0100000@nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca>
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On Mon, 21 Nov 1994, Mike Sikorsky wrote:

> 
> 
> 	First I want to say that I am a member of ADT which is going
> to be doing Amos Upgrades (although so far all I have done is 
> dissassemble with resource and play with it a bit)... 
> 
> 	I have been reading all these post's about what people want
> to see in Amos... and I agree with just about everyone... except for
> that I want to Abolish Amos all together... yes I like Amos but lets
> face it.. its a crappy language with awsome fucntions... 
> 
> 	What I would like to see is Amos be replaced by C... but 
> with the Amos functionality.  Basically this means implementing
> the amos fcns in C... this doesn't mean I don't want to upgrade
> Amos.. because I do... but eventually I think going to C would be
> the best... I know lots of people don't know C but truthfully its
> really easy to learn... the hard part is learning the Amiga specifics...
> But MARP (Mike's Amos Replacement Project :) ) would take of a lot
> of that.. this way people that don't know or don't care to know 
> about some Amiga Specifics don't have to but on the other hand the
> people that do can totally expand on MARP.. just use it as a frame
> work... 
> 
> 	What about Extensions and Previously Written Programs ?  Well
> if MARP becomes a 100% replacment then a translator could be used
> to get Amos prgs converted... but I am not to sure about how to
> convert extensions... but on the other hand extensions could be Awsome
> because you could have an infinite Number of them and also because
> think about how much C code is out there ?  It would have been a lot
> easier for Andy to write his Intuition Extension in C... and would
> still be totally useful if Amos went to C...
> 
> 	I realize Amos has a lot of functionality and is not going
> to be easy to convert to C and with some of the same speed.. but
> this way you can lose almost all the Amos pitfalls and bugs...
> (And if the OS changes updating MARP would be so much easier...)
> 
> 
> 	I started fooling around with MARP and I coded some basic
> fcns like Open/Close Screen | Plot | Point | Text.. etc etc.. here
> is a piece of code I was testing...
> 
> 	void M_main(void) <-- M_main = MARP_main
> 	{
> 
> 		int i,j;
> 
> 		M_OpenScreen(1,640,400,NCOLS_8,HIRES,"Screen 1",NULL);
> 		  /* the null is because you pass in your own taglist
> 		     this lets you do anything you want */
> 
> 		M_SetFGCol(2); /* ie. Ink 2 */
> 
> 		for( i=0 ; i<M_ScreenHeight() ; i++ )
> 			for( j=0 ; j<M_ScreenWidht() ; j++) {
> 				M_Text("Cheese",M_MouseX(),M_MouseY());
> 				M_Plot(j,i);
> 			}
> 		
> 		M_Wait(10); 
> 		
> 
> 		M_OpenScreen(2,640,100,NCOLS_8,HIRES,"Scr 2",NULL);
> 
> 		M_SetCurrScreen(2); /* ie. Screen 2 */
> 
> 		i=M_Point(10,10);
> 
> 		
> 	}
> 

	AWESOME! I like this!

	- Make

	PS: Is MARP going to be a lib file or entire compiler ? 



> 	It automatically Close the Screens for you but if you to
> do it you just can cal M_CloseScreen()...
> 
> 	What to you guys think of this ?  I think with MARP the
> transition from AMos-2-C could be a lot smoother... basically the
> hardest part would have to learn some C syntax... I even have
> C tutorial on disk written by Kernighan himeself.. 
> 
> 
> 				waiting for your responses
> 
> 							mike
> 
> 	
> 

Marko Turunen 			    
Sairaalakatu 9 B 30                   marturun@messi.uku.fi
70110 Kuopio			      marturun@majakka.uku.fi
P. 971 - 2821 661

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 03:53:22 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 00:19:40 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
Cc: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.ULT.3.90.941121223528.20190A-100000@cc.dixie.edu>
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On Mon, 21 Nov 1994, Dave May wrote:

> I'm afraid I will be attacked for saying this, but I agree with your 
> effort to move AMOS to a C-orientation rather than a BASIC one.  However, 
> you must note that people spend >90% in the editor: If you make the 
> transition to C, don't force us to use crummy text editors or anything 
> like the AMOS editor to do the job.  I believe that for programmers to be 
> happy, there needs to be color-coded tokenising, hidden code similar to 
> the locking/unlocking of procedures in conventional AMOS, and an 
> interface like the best word processors around.  None of thisw 
> right-button-to-select-a-block garbage.  Just highlight it like in a word 
> processor and hit backspace and it's gone.
>

	I agree with this but I will not be writing an editor :)
  I will though be coding Arexx macros to work with CygnusED... I like
  cygnused... I have a macro that lets you press F1 when the cursor
  is over any c function (that I have docs for) and bring up an amiga
  guide of that fcn right into cygnused... this I love.. 
 
> Compile-and-run is a must.  I like blitz basic for this.  And still the 
> ability to compile from a shell.
> 
	I agree... this to can be done with Arexx... man ARexx is cool!

> Anyway I will have more to say later, but for the moment I would like to 
> hear other replies.
> 
> Dave
> 

				mike

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 04:26:29 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 00:26:18 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
Cc: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411220816.A19845-0100000@messi.uku.fi>
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On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Marko Turunen wrote:

[...snip...]
> 
> 	AWESOME! I like this!
> 
		thanks.

> 	- Make
> 
> 	PS: Is MARP going to be a lib file or entire compiler ? 
> 

	I am not sure I totally understand what you mean.. but
right now it is just a bunch a object files (*.o) that you have
to link with... in the future it will most likely go to a link
library... I doubt I will want to make it into a shared lib though..
then people have to have the library and they will also know how
you wrote your program... I don't like either of these..


					mike

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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 08:56:47 --100
From: mumi@mol.biol.ethz.ch (Christian Mumenthaler)
Message-Id: <9411220756.AA02478@hel.ethz.ch>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Content-Length: 2485
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> 
> 	void M_main(void) <-- M_main = MARP_main
> 	{
> 
> 		int i,j;
> 
> 		M_OpenScreen(1,640,400,NCOLS_8,HIRES,"Screen 1",NULL);
> 		  /* the null is because you pass in your own taglist
> 		     this lets you do anything you want */
> 
> 		M_SetFGCol(2); /* ie. Ink 2 */
> 
> 		for( i=0 ; i<M_ScreenHeight() ; i++ )
> 			for( j=0 ; j<M_ScreenWidht() ; j++) {
> 				M_Text("Cheese",M_MouseX(),M_MouseY());
> 				M_Plot(j,i);
> 			}
> 		
> 		M_Wait(10); 
> 		
> 
> 		M_OpenScreen(2,640,100,NCOLS_8,HIRES,"Scr 2",NULL);
> 
> 		M_SetCurrScreen(2); /* ie. Screen 2 */
> 
> 		i=M_Point(10,10);
> 
> 		
> 	}
> 
> 	It automatically Close the Screens for you but if you to
> do it you just can cal M_CloseScreen()...
> 
> 	What to you guys think of this ?  I think with MARP the
> transition from AMos-2-C could be a lot smoother... basically the
> hardest part would have to learn some C syntax... I even have
> C tutorial on disk written by Kernighan himeself.. 
> 
> 
> 				waiting for your responses
> 
> 							mike

Hello!

I'm sorry to tell you, but the example program you give
is *EXACTLY* the reason why I wouldn't want AMOS to look
like C.
If I wanted to program in C, I'd buy a C compiler and
learn that language. I started once, but I disliked the
way it took forever to program simple games. I also
disliked everything else in C and I really prefer to
go through an Assembler program (for simple routines)
than a C program.
Well, of course, this is just my opinion and I do not
doubt that C is a powerful language and all. The thing
is that most people probably bought AMOS because it was
NOT like C: It's very easy to program, it has a simple
syntax and an INTERPRETER which makes it easy to
develop games VERY quickly.
If I can make some suggestions to the team who is
hopefully going to continue the development of AMOS,
I'd say that it is better to make SMALL but STEADY
steps instead of implementing too much at a time.
Personally, I would have the following priorities:

1) Bugs removed
2) AGA + Intuition support
3) Optimization of compiled programs: Shorter,
   faster code (also for 68020+)
4) Structured variables, Functions
5) Optimization of the commands actually included
6) New commands (not important for me!)

Thinking about it, I guess that the idea to program
C routines that correspond to AMOS commands may be
a good idea for all C programmers. However, this
project should be totally idependant from the improvement
of AMOS.

Just my opinion... 

	Chris

	


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 05:48:33 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 08:35:29 +0001 (GMT)
From: "Richard Stitson (Genetics)" <rnms@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
To: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Cc: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411211840.A23533-0100000@nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca>
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I agree that something along the lines of MARP would ease the path 
towards a C version of AMOS - the example given for screen opening 
appears not too difficult - just the actual syntax that needs getting to 
grips with.
However, I would be concerned if AMOS were to become just a C clone - the 
whole point is that it is (relatively) powerful despite being simple to 
write AND does not need extensive ploughing through EXEC reference 
manuals to find OS addresses which is what puts me off C programming - 
the familiarity of a BASIC framework without unusual/complicated/easily 
mis-typed syntax - how about including aspects of OBERON 2 to make things 
a little more straightforward.
All the best
Richard



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 06:56:03 1994
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From: Fred van Dijk <FRED@utelscin.el.utwente.nl>
Organization:  EE Study Association 'Scintilla'
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date:          Tue, 22 Nov 1994 11:27:44 +0100
Subject:       MARP Editor
X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Fred van Dijk" <FRED@utelscin.el.utwente.nl>
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About the recent mailing about MARP: (Amos2C)

Someone asked for an option in the editor to 'colorize' commands etc.
I think the Gold-Editor 1.1(see your local Aminet dealer) has this 
option already. 
It does have a programmerspelling-checker. Gold-Ed keeps different
dictionaries(can be changed!) to check the commands you type in and 
converts them to the right upper/lower-case versions.
Even if Gold-Ed doesn't have the 'colorize' option [|(], it shouldn't 
be difficult for the programmer to implement, the dictionary is 
already there!

Fred

email: f.vandijk@student.utwente.nl
 
 
 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 07:21:31 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 11:17:40 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: New Amos????
Cc: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
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Hei, hei boys...
slow down, please...
why you want to transform AMOS in C ?
I don't know C, but I want to learn it... but I will study only real C.
If I wanted (as I want) to learn some other powerful language near C I 
would study Amiga E, which I think its the best language which comes near C.

AMOS is BASIC and should stay BASIC!!!

I love AMOS as I have not to learn nothing about the machine hardware, 
nor how the system work and all the major effort is taken by the system 
without I even know about it (sprite & bob handling, dualplayfield, AMAL, 
RAINBOW, multi scrolling zones etc...).
It can seem a stupid way of thinking... but as I said if I wanted 
something more I will learn C.

Don't destroy what is one of the best language ever created... yes there 
are lots of bugs, limitations, stupid ideas in it... but its very simple!

Why all you are planning to destroy it?
Throwing away the editor?????? Are you crazy??? It's one of the best 
thing of the program!!!! 
Yes, an editor completely multitasking and on the workbenh could be better.

CygnusEd? Ehi... why I have to use other commercial programs???  

I agree on a better file handling. Program should be saved as ASCII and 
there should be an option to automatically compress the script with 
PowerPacker.library. And automatically decompressed when loaded, too.

I would like a editor completely customizable... better if opened on a 
public screen and under intuition (have you see the hp-asm assembler 
editor? I have found it on Aminet and it is great!).
I would like the option to select my preferred font, colors (even for 
variou parts of the text)... but all the present options should remain there.

And please fix all that bugs in the Monitor!!! Why, if I want to know 
where my program fails, I have to crash the entire system?

My opinions.

M&F


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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 94 08:45:45 GMT
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Organization: UltiMedia Graphics
X-Mailviewer: Mail 1.14
From: Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca> wrote:

> 	First I want to say that I am a member of ADT which is going
> to be doing Amos Upgrades... 
> 
> ...I want to Abolish Amos all together... yes I like Amos but lets
> face it.. its a crappy language with awsome fucntions... 

[...]
 
> 	I realize Amos has a lot of functionality and is not going
> to be easy to convert to C and with some of the same speed.. but
> this way you can lose almost all the Amos pitfalls and bugs...
> (And if the OS changes updating MARP would be so much easier...)
 
> 	I started fooling around with MARP and I coded some basic
> fcns like Open/Close Screen | Plot | Point | Text.. etc etc.. here
> is a piece of code I was testing...

[...] 

> 	What to you guys think of this ?  I think with MARP the
> transition from AMos-2-C could be a lot smoother... basically the
> hardest part would have to learn some C syntax... I even have
> C tutorial on disk written by Kernighan himeself.. 

I like the idea of re-writing Amos from the ground up, but I'm not sure
about using C syntax.
As Dave May has already pointed out, many people like to have an editor
that tokenises as they type. I for one like the way that the editor does
this. 
Although I really should make the effort to learn C, I only really use
Amos to handle GFX. I know that you said the GFX commands would be
implemented, but I would have to get my head around the new C syntax.

Here's what I propose;

Yes, definately re-write the whole of Amos so that it is an editor/compiler
setup.
But leave the tokenisation in the editor. This way it would be easier to
read your read the code.
I've not used C, but aren't the commands/variable case sensitive??
If *only* the editor tokenises as you type, then the text can be saved
as normal ASCII, but with all the upper/lower case characters in the
right places.
One of the things I like about Amos's editor is; if you make a typing
error when entering commands, it is instantly visible by the fact that it
is all in upper case.
If this tokenisation is done on the fly in the editor, but the file is
ASCII, it could retain the features of a C file.

My next gripe is; why do we have to change everything to C syntax??
Are there any speed advantages to the way the syntax of C source?
If the only advantage is that there are less cases of "badly structured"
programs, then this is the programmers problem.
I would rather see the syntax a kind of hybrid between C and BASIC.
Of course, this causes problems if you want to include C listing.
But if you can create an Amos to MARP convertor, surely you can create
a GAVOMARP (Gareth's Augmented Version Of MARP)??
This would mean we get rid of {}'s and use something easier to read.

Other than this, I totally agree.

BTW, wouldn't it be best to only have a couple of the ADT working on the
GAVOMARP project in parallel to the bug-fixing/additions to Amos??

Atleast we'll get to see some new patches to fix some of the Amos' current
problems untill GAVOMARP is ready to go.

What are your ideas??

G.
PS. Matt Gorner; I know you think we should replace Amos with MARP
--
Gareth D. Edwards, Leeds, West Yorkshire, England.  
E-Address: config@ultim.demon.co.uk
Web Home Page: http://www.gate.net/amos/play/people/GarethEdwards.html
Editor of the Seal FAQ and Future Love Paradise W3 site.

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 08:38:49 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 07:30:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
Cc: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411211840.A23533-0100000@nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca>
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I think moving AMOS to C would be nice, but it should be the end goal, not
the beginning goal.  First, the bugs need to be fixed.  Then, as things are
added, perhaps start the transition.  I doubt it will ever be as easy as
AMOS but it could come close.

But let's get AMOS Pro fixed first.

Michael
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
	       AMOS WWW:  http://www.gate.net/amos/play/


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 09:09:45 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 07:35:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
In-Reply-To: <9411220756.AA02478@hel.ethz.ch>
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On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Christian Mumenthaler wrote:
> If I wanted to program in C, I'd buy a C compiler and
> learn that language. I started once, but I disliked the
I agree, so if there ever was an AMOS C, there would have to be a front end
processor that took the AMOS file and converted it to C, compiled it,
linked it, etc.  All transparent to the user.  Of course, then we'd have to
have a C compiler, too.  Maybe write an AMOS specific one!  :)

> 3) Optimization of compiled programs: Shorter,
>    faster code (also for 68020+)
I think it would also be good for the compiler to produce an assembler
source file.

Michael
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
	       AMOS WWW:  http://www.gate.net/amos/play/


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From: "Timothy E. Wright" <tewright@mailbox.syr.edu>
Sender: "Timothy E. Wright" <tewright@mailbox.syr.edu>
Reply-To: "Timothy E. Wright" <tewright@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Re: The C thread...
To: AMOS list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <9411220756.AA02478@hel.ethz.ch>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9411220605.A7141-0100000@kong.syr.edu>
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   I'm Glad not everyone is gung-ho about this C thing.  I HATE the 
idea!  I know C.  If I want to use C, I'll go use C.  I bought AMOS 
because I like what AMOS is.  I agree that this project might have merit 
for C programming, but let's not start to change the essence of what 
AMOS is.  AMOS is incredible for writing good programs very quickly and 
easily.  I myself never want to see that change!  In my opinion, the 
focus of the AMOS development team should be to make AMOS more stable 
and powerful, not to change it into a new language.  I wouldn't 
completely discourage this project, but I agree that this should be a 
seperate venture.  Future development of AMOS should remain AMOS BASIC.

-=========}==*  Tim Wright - "Argh!" - tewright@mailbox.syr.edu  *=={=========-

On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Christian Mumenthaler wrote:
> I'm sorry to tell you, but the example program you give
> is *EXACTLY* the reason why I wouldn't want AMOS to look
> like C.
> If I wanted to program in C, I'd buy a C compiler and
> learn that language. I started once, but I disliked the
> way it took forever to program simple games. I also
> disliked everything else in C and I really prefer to
> go through an Assembler program (for simple routines)
> than a C program.
> Well, of course, this is just my opinion and I do not
> doubt that C is a powerful language and all. The thing
> is that most people probably bought AMOS because it was
> NOT like C: It's very easy to program, it has a simple
> syntax and an INTERPRETER which makes it easy to
> develop games VERY quickly.
> If I can make some suggestions to the team who is
> hopefully going to continue the development of AMOS,
> I'd say that it is better to make SMALL but STEADY
> steps instead of implementing too much at a time.
> Personally, I would have the following priorities:
> 1) Bugs removed
> 2) AGA + Intuition support
> 3) Optimization of compiled programs: Shorter,
>    faster code (also for 68020+)
> 4) Structured variables, Functions
> 5) Optimization of the commands actually included
> 6) New commands (not important for me!) 
> Thinking about it, I guess that the idea to program
> C routines that correspond to AMOS commands may be
> a good idea for all C programmers. However, this
> project should be totally idependant from the improvement
> of AMOS.
> Just my opinion... 
> 	Chris



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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 14:19:22 +0100 (MET)
From: Flint <Mathieu.Dhondt@rug.ac.be>
To: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Cc: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411211840.A23533-0100000@nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca>
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On Mon, 21 Nov 1994, Mike Sikorsky wrote:

> 	I have been reading all these post's about what people want
> to see in Amos... and I agree with just about everyone... except for
> that I want to Abolish Amos all together... yes I like Amos but lets
> face it.. its a crappy language with awsome fucntions... 
> 
> 	What I would like to see is Amos be replaced by C... but 
> with the Amos functionality.
[Snip-Snip]
Why is it that Marco is the only replying negatively to this post? This 
is an AMOS related group. Amos is, as Marco quite rightly observed, 
BASIC! I *don't* want to bother with my computer internals when I want to 
open a screen, I want AMOS to do it for me when I say so. I want the 
original BASIC-like structure, the original data and variables handling, 
and so on (ofcourse, other types of variable structures may be 
implemented (like the excellent EasyLife did), but not at the peril of 
the original things. I want to see AMOS expanded, not replaced by some 
hybrid C-type language.

Don't abolish AMOS, please. I finally found a language that allowed me to 
create something showable to the rest of the world, and you want to 
*kill* it. Don't.

Mathieu.

"My boy, if ever you are lost at sea, drop right in and think of me."
- J. Heller



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 10:49:52 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 07:25:46 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Cc: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411220816.A19845-0100000@messi.uku.fi>
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Well, I would be happy to write an editor that would sport these 
capabilities.  It sounds as though I would only have to implement a few 
ARexx macros along with the features I mentioned.

Plus like I said, I really like the way wysiwyg word processors handle 
text as opposed to the AMOS editor's attempt.  And users wouldn't have to 
register CygnusEd :)

Dave

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 11:47:24 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 16:05:51 +0100 (MET)
From: Bjoern Nilsson <pi92bn@pt.hk-r.se>
To: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Cc: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411220032.A10342-0100000@nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca>
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I think your MARP-idea is excellent. I've always wanted a language 
between C and AMOS, to combine the powerful c structure/speed and the 
simplicity of AMOS.

I hope MARP will come true...

/B.Nils

+-----------------------------+-------------------------------+
| Name: Bjoern Nilsson        |                               |
| Email: pi92bn@pt.hk-r.se    |        //  Only Amiga makes   |
| Equip: A1200/128/28Mhz/6    |      \X/   it possible...     |
+-----------------------------+-------------------------------+


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 12:34:22 1994
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From: Nick Webb (0473) 645883 B83/129 <ncw@pasture.bt.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 94 15:59:10 GMT
Message-Id: <1141.9411221559@pisces.pasture.bt.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: The AMOS "C" debate
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I would agree that AMOS *is* an enhanced BASIC language and should remain so.

If people want to get into C, or any other language for that matter, there are 
other routes for so doing.

If a company wanted to take on the basic editor/compiler and wrap them round C, 
all well and good.  This would lead to something similar to the 
Turbo C/Pascal/C++ that are available for the PC.

(This message is in response to Mathieu Dhondt's e-mail on the subject).

Regards,

Nick Webb  :-D
UNIX:		ncw@pasture.bt.co.uk
A600, 2.05

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 14:16:57 1994
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Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
From: mike.pelletier@canrem.com (Mike Pelletier)
Message-Id: <60.1021.6587.0C1BFD86@canrem.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411211840.A23533-0100000@nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca>
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 09:46:00 -0500
Organization: CRS Online  (Toronto, Ontario)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Well, I, for one, would drop AMOS like a hot potato if it were a C style
language.  If I wanted C, I'd BUY C.  I hope that this never happens (making
AMOS like C).

Well met and godspeed,
                      Giark

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 15:44:34 1994
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From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411221912.AA19913@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
Status: RO
X-Status: A

>If I can make some suggestions to the team who is
>hopefully going to continue the development of AMOS,
>I'd say that it is better to make SMALL but STEADY
>steps instead of implementing too much at a time.
>Personally, I would have the following priorities:
>
>1) Bugs removed

  This is certainly coming first.  Whatever AMOS may turn into, it's going
to have less bugs than the current version.

>2) AGA + Intuition support

  I agree here too - since I've already written Intuition code, I just have
to integrate it into the AMOS code itself.

>3) Optimization of compiled programs: Shorter,
>   faster code (also for 68020+)

  The compiler needs *lots* of work, and optimization won't necessarily be
first.  (We will do it, though.)

>4) Structured variables, Functions

  This may well be done concurrently with either or both of the above two.

>5) Optimization of the commands actually included
>6) New commands (not important for me!)

  These are low on the list.  More important is making the interpreter
itself, and probably adding auto-compilation on Run.

  --Andy Church

P.S. For those who care about such things, my home page now actually says
something about me.  The URL is http://www.mbhs.edu/~achurch/ .  (No, I
still don't have a picture - wait a few days.)

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From: Kimmo Veijalainen <Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi>
Message-Id: <199411221958.VAA22023@liero.cc.lut.fi>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
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First of all: C with Amos functions would be awesome.
One could use GoldEd as editor, then just select "compile" from menu, and 
voila... but IMO Amos would lose most of its charm.
Nowadays I try something, hit F1, immediately see the result, or get an 
error, go back to editor, and so on. I can experiment with parameters 
I pass to my procedures without thinking much, and the machine won't crash.
If Amos becomes a C-like compiled-only language, creating programs will 
be slower, errors will probably result in a crash.. bleagh.

Just bugfix AmosPro.


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 16:55:37 1994
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To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: MARP
X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5phi 9/15/94
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 19:54:28 +0000
From: Paul Hickman <ph@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <"swan.doc.i.292:22.10.94.19.54.41"@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Status: RO
X-Status: 


>From the panic this has cause, I think some people have misinterpreted (Or 
should
that be miscompiled) mike's proposal.

MARP is mikes own project, in addition to the update to AMOSPro. That will not
involve changing the syntax of AMOS programs at all initially, except maybe
allowing you to call procedures as function instead of all that Param crap. 
(But even
that probably won't be in the first version).



As for ideas for MARP itself, how about using C++ instead of C. Then you can 
program
all the parts of AMOS (Screens, Bobs, etc.) as classes, and use inheritence a 
lot
(E.g. to share methods between icon & bob). C++ also has a much nicer syntax 
and
there are far fewer *`s and &`s flying about the program.

This will also allow users to derive their own classes from the built in ones, 
making
it easy to customise.

GNU C++ is available for the amiga - on aminet in /dev/gcc. You`ll need 4Mb+ 
to use
it though, and 10-20Mb of hardisk space.




+-------------------------+------------------------------------+
|                         |    _____                           |
| PAUL HICKMAN            |   /     \   ON A HOT SUMMER NIGHT  |
| (ph@doc.ic.ac.uk)       |  /  O O  \  WOULD YOU  OFFER YOUR  |
| DEPARTMENT OF COMPUTING | |    _    | THROAT  TO  THE  WOLF  |
| IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON |  \  / \  /  WITH THE RED  ROSES ?  |
|                         |   \_____/                          |
+-------------------------+------------------------------------+
Machines: Amiga 500  WB1.3 - 1mb Memory - External Disk Drive.
          Amiga 1200 WB3.0 - 2mb Memory - 200Mb Hard Disk.


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From: Vincent Platt <platt@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu>
Message-Id: <9411222008.AA27170@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu>
Subject: My $.02.. (on C etc.)
To: amos-list@access.digex.net (amos)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 14:08:22 -0600 (CST)
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	I've watched many people contribute ideas as to how to make AMOS
better and what they believe should come of the debugging etc.  I think
that there are several issues though that should be confronted here: 

1.  What is the end-product goal? 

	Some have proposed that we "re-orient" AMOS to a C style syntax or
reduce the whole programming system to a linked library.  This totally
opposes the original concept of AMOS.  AMOS is a variant of BASIC; nothing
more, nothing less.  Ideas such as structured variables, etc already exist
in one form or another for AMOS.  Making AMOS into a C variant is making
more efficient that which does not need to be more efficient.  We should
instead make AMOS better at what it's SUPPOSED to do.  What this entails I
shall not try to define, however accomplishing this by re-orienting AMOS
will destroy AMOS's user-base.

2.  Can the end-product goal be reached?

	Also, let us consider whether any improvements at all are possible
in AMOS.  Do we have the source code?  Without commented source code it
will be very difficult to make other than trivial changes to the system. 
>From what I gather of Lionet's programming style, everything seems to be
terribly interdependent. 

	Also, has anyone considered that improving AMOS might simply be a 
matter of re-doing the extensions which do exist??  Why not simply make 
extensions to replace commands which are buggy?  After this, re-do the 
compiler (which to me resembles nothing more than one big linker).  While 
this may seem simplistic, it's more logical.  Why tear apart everything?  
Let's just ignore the parts we don't like and write replacements.  This 
would be only slightly confusing to AMOS novices, rather than scare them 
off entirely.


3.  Who's going to do all the work??

	While MARP sounds rather noble, no one's heard a game plan.  Who's
going to do what???  How is this whole thing going to be distributed?
(Probably Aminet, but alternatives should be considered.)  In short, who 
the heck is "in charge", who's going to do the work, and what recompense 
are they going to receive for doing it?


	These questions seem to have been answered somewhat in the past. 
However, we do not possess any concrete answers.  If we want progress to
be made, then solid organization will have to occur.  Sitting around and
contributing ideas is only positive up to the point where a pool of ideas
exist.  I think that obvious solutions to the above questions exist, now
it is only a matter of committing to the solutions. 


So whoever takes charge, why don't you ask me or someone else for help 
with something if you need it?  I think we're all primed for action.  Not 
all of us need to be accomplished assembly programmers in order to get 
this done.

'Nuff said on my part.  If you have any sort of response to this then 
please mail them to me and not the list.  I will summarily ignore all 
responses made to the list.



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 19:53:43 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 15:58:39 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
Cc: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411220811.B1311-0100000@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
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On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Richard Stitson (Genetics) wrote:

> I agree that something along the lines of MARP would ease the path 
> towards a C version of AMOS - the example given for screen opening 
> appears not too difficult - just the actual syntax that needs getting to 
> grips with.

	Which really isn't too bad... I am not a C God but I am pretty
 familiar with it so if Anyone out there is trying to get some grips
 with C I will happily answer any questions...

> However, I would be concerned if AMOS were to become just a C clone - the 
> whole point is that it is (relatively) powerful despite being simple to 
> write AND does not need extensive ploughing through EXEC reference 
> manuals to find OS addresses which is what puts me off C programming -

	I agree.. this is the reason I am working on MARP.. basically 
  I am doing the all the Crap of digging through the RKM's... but when
  its done you want have to... 
 
> the familiarity of a BASIC framework without unusual/complicated/easily 
> mis-typed syntax - how about including aspects of OBERON 2 to make things 
> a little more straightforward.

	I don;t know Oberon 2 so you would have to be more detailed for
want you want...


							mike

> All the best
> Richard
> 
> 
> 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 20:47:33 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 15:54:12 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <9411220756.AA02478@hel.ethz.ch>
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On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Christian Mumenthaler wrote:
[...example code sniped...]
> 
> Hello!
> 
> I'm sorry to tell you, but the example program you give
> is *EXACTLY* the reason why I wouldn't want AMOS to look
> like C.
>

	Why ?  this is the difference:

AMOS:              C:

  FOR i=0 to 10    for( i=0 ; i<11 ; i++ )
      Plot i,10         Plot(i,10)
  NEXT

  I don't see the big difference.. by using C it will make your
  programs easier to read and easier to debug...

  EXAMPLE:

  AMOS:            C:

    XGrid[x]       Plot( XGrid(x) , 10 )
    x = Param
    Plot X,10      
    MIKE=4         MIKE=4

    ? MIKO         Print(MIKO)  <--------------------+
						     |
     ^--- this will not produce an error wheras this + will... this is
    why Paul Hickman wrote VarChecker... 


> If I wanted to program in C, I'd buy a C compiler and
> learn that language. I started once, but I disliked the
> way it took forever to program simple games. 

	I completely agree with you... this is the reason I am doing
  MARP in the first place... MARP is supposed to bring the functionality
  of Amos (ie. easy to make quick games) to C...

> I also
> disliked everything else in C and I really prefer to
> go through an Assembler program (for simple routines)
> than a C program.

	You prefer Assembler over C... ?  Ya I like Assembler but I thiunk
  it should only be used when neceassary... I don;'t believe in writng
  complete programs in Asm... I wouls just rather write Asm routines for
  speed critical fcns.. 


> Well, of course, this is just my opinion and I do not
> doubt that C is a powerful language and all. The thing
> is that most people probably bought AMOS because it was
> NOT like C: It's very easy to program, it has a simple
> syntax and an INTERPRETER which makes it easy to
> develop games VERY quickly.

	I agree with you here too... I was one of those people.. but
now I have moved passed that.. Yes its more of a hassle to compile
but the I feel the Advantages far outweigh the disadvantages... Anyone
that has used Amos will feel like they are using Amos but just having
to change some programming syntax... and thats not too hard... 

> If I can make some suggestions to the team who is
> hopefully going to continue the development of AMOS,
> I'd say that it is better to make SMALL but STEADY
> steps instead of implementing too much at a time.
> Personally, I would have the following priorities:
> 
> 1) Bugs removed
> 2) AGA + Intuition support
> 3) Optimization of compiled programs: Shorter,
>    faster code (also for 68020+)
> 4) Structured variables, Functions
> 5) Optimization of the commands actually included
> 6) New commands (not important for me!)
> 

  this is my preferred order: 1,4,5,2,3 

  Also moving to C would take care of: 1,2,3,4,5... 


> Thinking about it, I guess that the idea to program
> C routines that correspond to AMOS commands may be
> a good idea for all C programmers. However, this
> project should be totally idependant from the improvement
> of AMOS.
> 
 
	It is... 

					mike


> Just my opinion... 
> 
> 	Chris
> 
> 	
> 
> 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 21:22:45 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 16:44:49 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
Cc: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941122072741.10985B-100000@access4.digex.net>
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On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Dolfan in VA wrote:

> I think moving AMOS to C would be nice, but it should be the end goal, not
> the beginning goal.  First, the bugs need to be fixed.  Then, as things are
> added, perhaps start the transition.  I doubt it will ever be as easy as
> AMOS but it could come close.
>

	It won't be but I am trying to make it as nice as possible..
 
> But let's get AMOS Pro fixed first.
> 

	Ya i agree with this.. but MARP for me is a parrallel project..
  basically i want MARP to be 90% done by May.. thats when I am in
   summer holidays so I want to actaully use MARP not make it..

					mike
> Michael
> --
> Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
> A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
>              For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
> 	       AMOS WWW:  http://www.gate.net/amos/play/
> 
> 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 21:27:24 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 16:55:49 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
To: CRSO.Amos@canrem.com
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <60.1021.6587.0C1BFD86@canrem.com>
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On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Mike Pelletier wrote:

> Well, I, for one, would drop AMOS like a hot potato if it were a C style
> language.  If I wanted C, I'd BUY C.  I hope that this never happens (making
> AMOS like C).
>

	You don't have to use MARP you would still use Amos... (and all
 of its faults)

					mike

 
> Well met and godspeed,
>                       Giark
> 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 21:34:01 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 16:54:17 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Sender: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Reply-To: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
To: Flint <Mathieu.Dhondt@rug.ac.be>
Cc: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.941122140255.2532B-100000@eduserv>
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On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Flint wrote:

[Snip-Snip]
> Why is it that Marco is the only replying negatively to this post? This 
> is an AMOS related group. Amos is, as Marco quite rightly observed, 
> BASIC! I *don't* want to bother with my computer internals when I want to 
> open a screen, I want AMOS to do it for me when I say so. 

	I think you missed the point... that is the whole idea behind
   Marp.. 


> I want the 
> original BASIC-like structure, the original data and variables handling, 
> and so on (ofcourse, other types of variable structures may be 
> implemented (like the excellent EasyLife did), but not at the peril of 
> the original things. I want to see AMOS expanded, not replaced by some 
> hybrid C-type language.
> 

	MARP is not a hybrid C-type language.. it is C... I don;t want
  to lose anything from Amos either... basically when using the MARP
  fcns it should feel like Amos.. ie. OpenScreen goes to M_OpenScreen()
  (the M_ prefix is for marp)...


> Don't abolish AMOS, please. I finally found a language that allowed me to 
> create something showable to the rest of the world, and you want to 
> *kill* it. Don't.
> 
	I don't... but wouldn't you like to be able to have a better
  language behind the power ?  Plus MARP will be a trillion times
  easier to keep upto date with the OS.. ie. like AGA...

				mike


> Mathieu.
> 
> "My boy, if ever you are lost at sea, drop right in and think of me."
> - J. Heller
> 
> 
> 


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 22:06:38 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 16:41:57 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: The C thread...
To: "Timothy E. Wright" <tewright@mailbox.syr.edu>
Cc: AMOS list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
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On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Timothy E. Wright wrote:

>    I'm Glad not everyone is gung-ho about this C thing.  I HATE the 
> idea!  

	you can't please everyone... 

> I know C.  If I want to use C, I'll go use C.  I bought AMOS 
> because I like what AMOS is.  I agree that this project might have merit 
> for C programming, but let's not start to change the essence of what 
> AMOS is.  AMOS is incredible for writing good programs very quickly and 
> easily.  I myself never want to see that change!  

	I like this too... 

> In my opinion, the 
> focus of the AMOS development team should be to make AMOS more stable 
> and powerful, not to change it into a new language.  

	MARP has really nothing to do with ADT.... except for the fact
  that i am member.. 

> I wouldn't 
> completely discourage this project, but I agree that this should be a 
> seperate venture.  

	it is...

> Future development of AMOS should remain AMOS BASIC.
> 

	I agree with this too... truth is by updating Amos I just learn
more about Amos which makes it easier for me to write MARP..

> -=========}==*  Tim Wright - "Argh!" - tewright@mailbox.syr.edu  *=={=========-
> 
> On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Christian Mumenthaler wrote:
> > I'm sorry to tell you, but the example program you give
> > is *EXACTLY* the reason why I wouldn't want AMOS to look
> > like C.
> > If I wanted to program in C, I'd buy a C compiler and
> > learn that language. I started once, but I disliked the
> > way it took forever to program simple games. I also
> > disliked everything else in C and I really prefer to
> > go through an Assembler program (for simple routines)
> > than a C program.
> > Well, of course, this is just my opinion and I do not
> > doubt that C is a powerful language and all. The thing
> > is that most people probably bought AMOS because it was
> > NOT like C: It's very easy to program, it has a simple
> > syntax and an INTERPRETER which makes it easy to
> > develop games VERY quickly.
> > If I can make some suggestions to the team who is
> > hopefully going to continue the development of AMOS,
> > I'd say that it is better to make SMALL but STEADY
> > steps instead of implementing too much at a time.
> > Personally, I would have the following priorities:
> > 1) Bugs removed
> > 2) AGA + Intuition support
> > 3) Optimization of compiled programs: Shorter,
> >    faster code (also for 68020+)
> > 4) Structured variables, Functions
> > 5) Optimization of the commands actually included
> > 6) New commands (not important for me!) 
> > Thinking about it, I guess that the idea to program
> > C routines that correspond to AMOS commands may be
> > a good idea for all C programmers. However, this
> > project should be totally idependant from the improvement
> > of AMOS.
> > Just my opinion... 
> > 	Chris
> 
> 
> 

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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 16:38:00 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: New Amos????
To: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Cc: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411221031.B3429-0100000@varano.ing.unico.it>
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On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Marco Beretta wrote:

> 
> Hei, hei boys...
> slow down, please...
> why you want to transform AMOS in C ?
> I don't know C, but I want to learn it... but I will study only real C.

	Thats what MARP is... opps did I not explain myself again.. I have
  a communication problem :)

> If I wanted (as I want) to learn some other powerful language near C I 
> would study Amiga E, which I think its the best language which comes near C.
> 
	I agree...

> AMOS is BASIC and should stay BASIC!!!
> 
	Ya Amos is going to stay basic.. but for people out there that
want Amos functionality in C then they would use MARP.. 

> I love AMOS as I have not to learn nothing about the machine hardware, 
> nor how the system work and all the major effort is taken by the system 
> without I even know about it (sprite & bob handling, dualplayfield, AMAL, 
> RAINBOW, multi scrolling zones etc...).

	i agree.. this is what MARP is supposed to hide from you... but
now instead Amos its C... 

> It can seem a stupid way of thinking... but as I said if I wanted 
> something more I will learn C.
> 

	With MARP you could a hell of a lot easier do more... if you
wanted to.. for people that want to they can just use MARP but for the
more power hungry they could do stuff on their own.. 

> Don't destroy what is one of the best language ever created... yes there 
> are lots of bugs, limitations, stupid ideas in it... but its very simple!
> 

	I agree that Amos has some of the best functionality but it is
a crappy language.. the fact that you can't have fcns and all variables
have to uppercase is really stupid...


> Why all you are planning to destroy it?

	Because its outdated... Amos will still be around but it would 
be a hell of alot longer before Amos has full Intuition/AGA support than
a product like MARP.. but on the other hand it will be a while before
I have all Amos cool gfx coded... 

> Throwing away the editor?????? Are you crazy??? It's one of the best 
> thing of the program!!!! 

	the editor would atleast have to modified to work with C... basically
  add a flag to turn off automatic tokenising...

> Yes, an editor completely multitasking and on the workbenh could be better.
> 
> CygnusEd? Ehi... why I have to use other commercial programs???  
> 

	No.. you could use GoldED... I heard it's pretty cool.. lets
you fold and it has an Arexx port... so any macros written for CygnusEd
could be used on GoldED.. (of course with a little modification)


> I agree on a better file handling. Program should be saved as ASCII and 
> there should be an option to automatically compress the script with 
> PowerPacker.library. And automatically decompressed when loaded, too.
> 

	this could easily be done with any editor that has an Arexx port..


> I would like a editor completely customizable... better if opened on a 
> public screen and under intuition (have you see the hp-asm assembler 
> editor? I have found it on Aminet and it is great!).

	GoldEd/CygnusEd both support this...

> I would like the option to select my preferred font, colors (even for 
> variou parts of the text)... but all the present options should remain there.
> 
> And please fix all that bugs in the Monitor!!! Why, if I want to know 
> where my program fails, I have to crash the entire system?
> 

	Well you would be using different debuggin tools for C code...


					mike

> My opinions.
> 
> M&F
> 
> 

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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 16:25:31 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
To: Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <9411220845.AA0023e@ultim.demon.co.uk>
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On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Gareth Edwards wrote:

[...snip...]
> 
> I like the idea of re-writing Amos from the ground up, but I'm not sure
> about using C syntax.
>

	Well I can't change this because I do not want to write a compiler
and most inportantly code want be portable... yes I know Amiga Specifics
are not portable... but what could be is the MARP interface.. Actually 
I have a friend that is going to be wroking on MARP for the IBM... of
course each fcn will have an associated Portabitlty level.. for example
all level 0 fcns will be portable but level 1 won't be portable to the
IBM... for example fcns for using Intution won't.. so you couldn't write
a portable Application... but Games could be portable... of course the
impmentation of MARP will have OS specifics but that would all be hidden
... ie. M_DrawLine() would be portable but M_ReqLibrary() would not be...


> As Dave May has already pointed out, many people like to have an editor
> that tokenises as they type. I for one like the way that the editor does
> this. 

	Using MARP would prohibit this but like I said I wont be writing
an Editor... the best I could do is a ArexxMacro that you can Slap to
tokenise the current line in the editor of your choice... but it can't
be as nice as Amos... 

> Although I really should make the effort to learn C, I only really use
> Amos to handle GFX. I know that you said the GFX commands would be
> implemented, but I would have to get my head around the new C syntax.
> 

	Really C is not that bad... I thought exactly the same thing 
  before... 

> Here's what I propose;
> 
> Yes, definately re-write the whole of Amos so that it is an editor/compiler
> setup.
> But leave the tokenisation in the editor. This way it would be easier to
> read your read the code.
> I've not used C, but aren't the commands/variable case sensitive??

	yup..

> If *only* the editor tokenises as you type, then the text can be saved
> as normal ASCII, but with all the upper/lower case characters in the
> right places.
> One of the things I like about Amos's editor is; if you make a typing
> error when entering commands, it is instantly visible by the fact that it
> is all in upper case.

	ya this is good... but as I said no editor from me... you can
  always use Rexx to get you close...


> If this tokenisation is done on the fly in the editor, but the file is
> ASCII, it could retain the features of a C file.
> 
> My next gripe is; why do we have to change everything to C syntax??

	'cause then its portable and I don't have to write a compiler..

> Are there any speed advantages to the way the syntax of C source?

	ya... C supports Macros which mean you can inline fcns... 
 example: #define M_DrawCircle(x,y,r) M_DrawEllipse((x),(y),(r),(r))
 This way you can use DrawCircle without the overhead of a fcn call...
 
 Also C compilers can do optimizations for you Automatically... like
 Unrolling loops.. also in C you tell it to try and make certain var's
 stored in registers:

	register int i;

	for( i=0 ; i<10000 ; i++ )
		Printf("%d\n",i)

	Here you know that having 'i' in a register would give some
  good speedup.. 

> If the only advantage is that there are less cases of "badly structured"
> programs, then this is the programmers problem.
	
	you can write just as bad programs in C...

> I would rather see the syntax a kind of hybrid between C and BASIC.

	then you couldn't use existing C Complilers and the code would
 not be portable.. 

> Of course, this causes problems if you want to include C listing.
> But if you can create an Amos to MARP convertor, 

	something like this may be done to assit in converting your
  Amos projects to C... although this is not a high priority.. 

> surely you can create
> a GAVOMARP (Gareth's Augmented Version Of MARP)??
> This would mean we get rid of {}'s and use something easier to read.
> 

	I agree I don't like {}'s all over the place.. but C gets rid
  of FCNCALL[] : X = Param : NEWFCNCALL[x] --> newfcncall( fcncall() )
  and things like database_index=database+1 --> database_index++... I
  think C actually makes code easier to read... 

> Other than this, I totally agree.
> 
> BTW, wouldn't it be best to only have a couple of the ADT working on the
> GAVOMARP project in parallel to the bug-fixing/additions to Amos??
> 

	MARP isn't and ADT product so I don;t know about this.. what do
  ADT guys think ?


						mike

> Atleast we'll get to see some new patches to fix some of the Amos' current
> problems untill GAVOMARP is ready to go.
> 
> What are your ideas??
> 
> G.
> PS. Matt Gorner; I know you think we should replace Amos with MARP
> --
> Gareth D. Edwards, Leeds, West Yorkshire, England.  
> E-Address: config@ultim.demon.co.uk
> Web Home Page: http://www.gate.net/amos/play/people/GarethEdwards.html
> Editor of the Seal FAQ and Future Love Paradise W3 site.
> 

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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 17:30:20 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: MARP
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <"swan.doc.i.292:22.10.94.19.54.41"@doc.ic.ac.uk>
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On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Paul Hickman wrote:

> 
> >From the panic this has cause, I think some people have misinterpreted (Or 
> should
> that be miscompiled) mike's proposal.
>

	Probably... my english is little krazy :)

 
> MARP is mikes own project, in addition to the update to AMOSPro. That will not
> involve changing the syntax of AMOS programs at all initially, except maybe
> allowing you to call procedures as function instead of all that Param crap. 
> (But even
> that probably won't be in the first version).
> 
> 
> 
> As for ideas for MARP itself, how about using C++ instead of C. Then you can 
> program
> all the parts of AMOS (Screens, Bobs, etc.) as classes, and use inheritence a 
> lot
> (E.g. to share methods between icon & bob). C++ also has a much nicer syntax 
> and
> there are far fewer *`s and &`s flying about the program.
> 
> This will also allow users to derive their own classes from the built in ones, 
> making
> it easy to customise.
> 

	Going C++ route is good idea but right now C++ support from SAS/C
  is pretty crappy and if I use GNU C++ then anything I do will be freeware
  Plus I think more systems have a stable C-Enviroment right now.. but this
  will change in the future though... I will try to make MARP easily to 
  use and customize as I can... although if your program goes into MARP
  internals it may/will break the portabilty level.. so no IBM... 

	I am meeting my IBM coder friend tomorrow to talk about IBM MARP..
  hopefully all will go well... wouldn't it be cool if you could easily
  port 75-90 % of your 'games' to IBM... (of course there will be strict
  portability rules here..)

							mike

> GNU C++ is available for the amiga - on aminet in /dev/gcc. You`ll need 4Mb+ 
> to use
> it though, and 10-20Mb of hardisk space.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +-------------------------+------------------------------------+
> |                         |    _____                           |
> | PAUL HICKMAN            |   /     \   ON A HOT SUMMER NIGHT  |
> | (ph@doc.ic.ac.uk)       |  /  O O  \  WOULD YOU  OFFER YOUR  |
> | DEPARTMENT OF COMPUTING | |    _    | THROAT  TO  THE  WOLF  |
> | IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON |  \  / \  /  WITH THE RED  ROSES ?  |
> |                         |   \_____/                          |
> +-------------------------+------------------------------------+
> Machines: Amiga 500  WB1.3 - 1mb Memory - External Disk Drive.
>           Amiga 1200 WB3.0 - 2mb Memory - 200Mb Hard Disk.
> 
> 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 23:32:31 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 17:35:16 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
To: Kimmo Veijalainen <Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <199411221958.VAA22023@liero.cc.lut.fi>
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On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Kimmo Veijalainen wrote:

> 
> First of all: C with Amos functions would be awesome.

	ya thats what I think...

> One could use GoldEd as editor, then just select "compile" from menu, and 
> voila... but IMO Amos would lose most of its charm.
> Nowadays I try something, hit F1, immediately see the result, or get an 
> error, go back to editor, and so on. I can experiment with parameters 
> I pass to my procedures without thinking much, and the machine won't crash.
> If Amos becomes a C-like compiled-only language, creating programs will 
> be slower, errors will probably result in a crash.. bleagh.
> 

	This is true... but you have take some adv with the disadv... 

  One thing about the crashes though.. I plan on having 'Slow' and 'Fast'
 rotuines... the 'Slow' routines would do as much Erro checking as
 possible which should get rid of a lot of crashes... the 'Fast' 
 versions will proberly be 'Macros' with no error checking.. you can
 use the fast versions when you think your code is stable.. does this
 sound like a good idea ?

					mike


> Just bugfix AmosPro.
> 
> 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 22 23:47:43 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 18:44:06 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: My $.02.. (on C etc.)
To: Vincent Platt <platt@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu>
Cc: amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
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On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Vincent Platt wrote:

> 	I've watched many people contribute ideas as to how to make AMOS
> better and what they believe should come of the debugging etc.  I think
> that there are several issues though that should be confronted here: 
> 
> 1.  What is the end-product goal? 
> 
> 	Some have proposed that we "re-orient" AMOS to a C style syntax or
> reduce the whole programming system to a linked library.  This totally
> opposes the original concept of AMOS.  AMOS is a variant of BASIC; nothing
> more, nothing less.  Ideas such as structured variables, etc already exist
> in one form or another for AMOS.  Making AMOS into a C variant is making
> more efficient that which does not need to be more efficient.  We should
> instead make AMOS better at what it's SUPPOSED to do.  What this entails I
> shall not try to define, however accomplishing this by re-orienting AMOS
> will destroy AMOS's user-base.
>

	I agree with you... MARP is independent from AMOS... MARP will
  though be based on Amos.. so people that are ready to move to a
  better language (ie. C) will be able to have the some functionality
  of Amos... 

 
> 2.  Can the end-product goal be reached?
> 
> 	Also, let us consider whether any improvements at all are possible
> in AMOS.  Do we have the source code?  Without commented source code it
> will be very difficult to make other than trivial changes to the system. 
> >From what I gather of Lionet's programming style, everything seems to be
> terribly interdependent. 
> 

	this is why you haven't already seen an Amos update.. I have
  been trying to go through the Disassembled Amos code.. and well lets
  just say its not fun... but if we at least had the SRC code with
   some comments we would not have to take guesses at everthing.. 


> 	Also, has anyone considered that improving AMOS might simply be a 
> matter of re-doing the extensions which do exist??  Why not simply make 
> extensions to replace commands which are buggy?  After this, re-do the 
> compiler (which to me resembles nothing more than one big linker).  While 
> this may seem simplistic, it's more logical.  Why tear apart everything?  
> Let's just ignore the parts we don't like and write replacements.  This 
> would be only slightly confusing to AMOS novices, rather than scare them 
> off entirely.
> 

	I'm not sure this is entirely possible.. it would work for like
  a new Polygon() routine but what about adding new AGA screens ?  You
  have to understand how Amos does it screen handling first before you
  patch in AGA... 

> 
> 3.  Who's going to do all the work??
> 
> 	While MARP sounds rather noble, no one's heard a game plan.  Who's
> going to do what???  
>

	MARP is done entirely by me... Mike... it is not related in anyway
  to ADT... this is my fault for providing this confusion.. I have less than
  desirable english skills... this is why I am engineering :) 

> How is this whole thing going to be distributed?
> (Probably Aminet, but alternatives should be considered.)  In short, who 
> the heck is "in charge", who's going to do the work, and what recompense 
> are they going to receive for doing it?
> 

	Honestly distribution hasn't even crossed my mind... I have put
  in less than 2 hrs work on MARP so far :)

	Well since I am the only one working on it.. it would be me...

	Firstly I am writing MARP as much for myself as for anyone else
  I really like the way Amos Handles its gfx system.... I like Amos but
  truthally I feel its stunted my growth :) ... I want to use C ...

	Another Objective of MARP was to make a compatible gfx system
  interface... right now Amiga is dead... although I love Amiga we
  have to face the facts that Amiga could really be gone.. and I want
  to write 'games' as a living when I am done my computer engineering
  degree (1 more year)... and I wil have to make money.. and well if
  Amiga is dead or near death that means IBM (the dark side)... that
  is why there will be a parallel development of IBM MARP which will
  be coded by a friend... so this means that I could still use my 
  Amiga to write games... I have already discussed the portability
  issue in a previous message... 
	
	Would MARP cost money... ?  Probably not for a long time... 
  and even then I am a fan at keeping software rates lower than
  $25.00 ( I don't understand how anyone expects me to pay $80
  bucks for a game)... Possibly basic MARP would be free then
  extra libs would cost... but this is all way to early to say...

> 
> 	These questions seem to have been answered somewhat in the past. 
> However, we do not possess any concrete answers.  If we want progress to
> be made, then solid organization will have to occur.  Sitting around and
> contributing ideas is only positive up to the point where a pool of ideas
> exist.  I think that obvious solutions to the above questions exist, now
> it is only a matter of committing to the solutions. 
> 

	I agree.... the primary reason I want to move to C is because
   a lot of the gripes I have with Amos are instanly gone...Amos was
   fine with me for a while but know its just to limiting... but 
   this doesn't mean I don't want to still update Amos... because I do
   ... I can't think of a much better way to learn a ton of stuff... 

	One big advantage of C is the amiunt of code already availible..
   just take Graphic Gems for example... 

> 
> So whoever takes charge, why don't you ask me or someone else for help 
> with something if you need it?  I think we're all primed for action.  Not 
> all of us need to be accomplished assembly programmers in order to get 
> this done.
> 

	I know I will need some help... but right now I want to a lot
  of the coding because I want to learn the Amiga Specifics... but
  would you be willing to be involved in MARP ?


> 'Nuff said on my part.  If you have any sort of response to this then 
> please mail them to me and not the list.  I will summarily ignore all 
> responses made to the list.
> 

	opps.. i read this to late.. :)

						Mike

> 
> 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 23 00:33:32 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 21:55:43 -0500
From: achurch@goober.mbhs.edu (Andy Church)
Message-Id: <9411230255.AA14874@goober.mbhs.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: My $.02.. (on C etc.)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>	I've watched many people contribute ideas as to how to make AMOS
>better and what they believe should come of the debugging etc.  I think
>that there are several issues though that should be confronted here: 
>
>1.  What is the end-product goal? 
>
>	Some have proposed that we "re-orient" AMOS to a C style syntax or
>reduce the whole programming system to a linked library.  This totally
>opposes the original concept of AMOS.  AMOS is a variant of BASIC; nothing
>more, nothing less.  Ideas such as structured variables, etc already exist
>in one form or another for AMOS.  Making AMOS into a C variant is making
>more efficient that which does not need to be more efficient.  We should
>instead make AMOS better at what it's SUPPOSED to do.  What this entails I
>shall not try to define, however accomplishing this by re-orienting AMOS
>will destroy AMOS's user-base.

  As Mike has said, he is not talking about completely changing AMOS itself,
but rather making a separate package.  AMOS will still be AMOS, and those
who want can use Mike's hybrid of AMOS and C.

>2.  Can the end-product goal be reached?
>
>	Also, let us consider whether any improvements at all are possible
>in AMOS.  Do we have the source code?  Without commented source code it
>will be very difficult to make other than trivial changes to the system. 
>>From what I gather of Lionet's programming style, everything seems to be
>terribly interdependent. 

  No, we don't have source code (at least, not real source code).  So far
I've managed to disassemble and figure out a third to a half of the main
AMOS executable.  I'm writing to Francois directly to see if I can get the
code from him (Europress is not being helpful), although I suspect that
his comments, if he even bothered using any, will by rather cryptic (and
French).

>	Also, has anyone considered that improving AMOS might simply be a 
>matter of re-doing the extensions which do exist??  Why not simply make 
>extensions to replace commands which are buggy?  After this, re-do the 
>compiler (which to me resembles nothing more than one big linker).  While 
>this may seem simplistic, it's more logical.  Why tear apart everything?  
>Let's just ignore the parts we don't like and write replacements.  This 
>would be only slightly confusing to AMOS novices, rather than scare them 
>off entirely.

  Unfortunately, this won't work.  Many built-in commands rely on
internal, undocumented parts of AMOS, and it's just not possible to do
some things with extensions.  For example, a statement like Print which
can take variable numbers of parameters cannot be duplicated in an
extension (which has forced me to use annoying workarounds in the
Intuition Extension).

  Of course, instructions that are already in extensions can be fixed up;
take EME by Paul Reece.

>3.  Who's going to do all the work??
>
>	While MARP sounds rather noble, no one's heard a game plan.  Who's
>going to do what???  How is this whole thing going to be distributed?
>(Probably Aminet, but alternatives should be considered.)  In short, who 
>the heck is "in charge", who's going to do the work, and what recompense 
>are they going to receive for doing it?

  Me, the AMOS Development Team (myself, Paul Hickman, Paul Reece, Mike
Sikorsky), and we don't know yet.

>	These questions seem to have been answered somewhat in the past. 
>However, we do not possess any concrete answers.  If we want progress to
>be made, then solid organization will have to occur.  Sitting around and
>contributing ideas is only positive up to the point where a pool of ideas
>exist.  I think that obvious solutions to the above questions exist, now
>it is only a matter of committing to the solutions. 
>
>So whoever takes charge, why don't you ask me or someone else for help 
>with something if you need it?  I think we're all primed for action.  Not 
>all of us need to be accomplished assembly programmers in order to get 
>this done.

  We'll take any help we can get.  Unfortunately, we're limited at the
moment to deciphering disassembler output, so unless I can get source from
Francois, it may be a while before anything constructive happens.

>'Nuff said on my part.  If you have any sort of response to this then 
>please mail them to me and not the list.  I will summarily ignore all 
>responses made to the list.

  Why?  Everyone has a right to get real answers to questions.

  --Andy Church
    AMOS Development Team

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 23 02:22:52 1994
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	id m0rA9oH-00004yC; Tue, 22 Nov 94 21:00 PST
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 21:00:01 -800 (PST)
From: Greg Cox <gcox@cts.com>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Drive Motor Detect
Message-Id: <Pine.SCO.3.90.941122205345.1149A-100000@crash.cts.com>
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Here is a little example which includes the procedure to detect whether 
the drive motor is on/off when you insert a floppy disk. This program is 
compatible with AMOS v1.3x and AMOSPro.
 
begin 644 DRIVEMOTOR.LHA 
M)FTM;&@U+3D!``#R`0``Z:5V'0``$$1R:79E7TUO=&]R+D%-3U.>1@$:6GKN= 
ML2BO[WN3@EJ1FP4%1_B!;"X)HLD"D(03-$EB0CAN0\2]R>]RDA$."+%8+9#\^ 
M`;%5B<]ABU19+7WO+SAH<$%5`K2;E"G4Y2HN*17+FVMO<(`WQ*-G:@W@N(5AM 
MNAGJLCRQ`KAT:0!&E]44];(/+^A,&QP/*=3`3A6++]NW>+H0KI)#T#Y./+E2L 
MBZZM9*ROS1/VYQ5$E.`TLJ$\2&7QI=4HIO#3HS2JOER7$0+.C&/V!X".8:$/Y 
MW'OLN_/:?@?2!JY:7&BI>GOLP\L28D**O<2EUZ"S>(0^K7N!(,?S&?K3X<&/P 
M)3X6[8#1C]S,0`DF:NK_>(S;X#:[[^7>29@;8QS0X-?Y$"^3_3V`ZV;"NM[/3 
GZAQ66$^%839SVF`S`U4I+YR_E]C_7\2^QAF&:\!VY"1W@4+5%0``+ 
`` 
end size 354


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 23 06:31:36 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 08:21:16 +0001 (GMT)
From: "Richard Stitson (Genetics)" <rnms@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
To: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Cc: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411221511.A20546-0100000@nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca>
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While on the subject of suggestions fgor the ADG to implement - is it 
possible to have fast maths functions for FP/DP numbers - at present I am 
having to stick with longhand maths or use large integers throughout 
progs and then divide by for example 10 to get real(sic) numbers for 
output/display purposes. It would be much nicer to say ADD etc but would 
it be faster and possible with FP/DPs.
Richard



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 23 06:58:00 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 08:15:23 +0001 (GMT)
From: "Richard Stitson (Genetics)" <rnms@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Inertia tutorial
To: Darryl Lewis <Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <9411040208.AA00pm7@comlink.mpx.com.au>
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Does anyone out there happen to have the Bernoulli equation handy - my 
CPS engine is now working wonderfully for gravity, Air Res and Wind - 
just lift needs to be incorporated.

Thanks in advance

Richard



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 23 06:58:51 1994
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          id AA63835; Wed, 23 Nov 1994 10:18:27 +0200
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 10:18:26 +200 (WET)
From: Marko Turunen <marturun@messi.uku.fi>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
To: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Cc: CRSO.Amos@canrem.com, amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411221658.A20546-0100000@nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca>
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On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Mike Sikorsky wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Mike Pelletier wrote:
> 
> > Well, I, for one, would drop AMOS like a hot potato if it were a C style
> > language.  If I wanted C, I'd BUY C.  I hope that this never happens (making
> > AMOS like C).
> >
> 
> 	You don't have to use MARP you would still use Amos... (and all
>  of its faults)
> 
> 					mike
> 
	Yes FAULTS in uppercase! With MARP you can also use ALL C advantages
	for example structures that are missing from AMOS.

	- Make
>  
> > Well met and godspeed,
> >                       Giark
> > 
> 

Marko Turunen 			    
Sairaalakatu 9 B 30                   marturun@messi.uku.fi
70110 Kuopio			      marturun@majakka.uku.fi
P. 971 - 2821 661

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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 07:34:11 +0001 (GMT)
From: "Richard Stitson (Genetics)" <rnms@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
To: Kimmo Veijalainen <Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <199411221958.VAA22023@liero.cc.lut.fi>
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On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Kimmo Veijalainen wrote:

> 
> First of all: C with Amos functions would be awesome.
> One could use GoldEd as editor, then just select "compile" from menu, and 
> voila... but IMO Amos would lose most of its charm.
> Nowadays I try something, hit F1, immediately see the result, or get an 
> error, go back to editor, and so on. I can experiment with parameters 
> I pass to my procedures without thinking much, and the machine won't crash.
> If Amos becomes a C-like compiled-only language, creating programs will 
> be slower, errors will probably result in a crash.. bleagh.
> 
> Just bugfix AmosPro.
> 
I agree that it is covenient to program in AMOS and then be able to 
quickly check for bugs or the effect of changing code/variables  by 
running without compiling - I would not like MARP to be compiled ONLY - 
real-time de-bugging MUST stay.
Richard



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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 07:47:45 +0001 (GMT)
From: "Richard Stitson (Genetics)" <rnms@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
To: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Cc: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411221511.A20546-0100000@nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca>
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On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Mike Sikorsky wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Richard Stitson (Genetics) wrote:
> 
> > I agree that something along the lines of MARP would ease the path 
> > towards a C version of AMOS - the example given for screen opening 
> > appears not too difficult - just the actual syntax that needs getting to 
> > grips with.
> 
> 	Which really isn't too bad... I am not a C God but I am pretty
>  familiar with it so if Anyone out there is trying to get some grips
>  with C I will happily answer any questions...

I haven't really had a chance to program in C or C++ but have followed 
articles in the computer press and realise how powerful the language is - 
however, for a relative novice (due to lack of time available for 
programming) like myself, it does appear daunting - I for one can easily 
handle converting a PASCAL prog into AMOS/basic without any specialist 
knowledge but wouldn't know where to start with C.....

> 
> > However, I would be concerned if AMOS were to become just a C clone - the 
> > whole point is that it is (relatively) powerful despite being simple to 
> > write AND does not need extensive ploughing through EXEC reference 
> > manuals to find OS addresses which is what puts me off C programming -
> 
> 	I agree.. this is the reason I am working on MARP.. basically 
>   I am doing the all the Crap of digging through the RKM's... but when
>   its done you want have to... 
  
.....I wholeheartedly support any move to do away with the need to dig 
through RKMs- that should make MARP both powerful AND relatively 
straightforward to learn.


> > the familiarity of a BASIC framework without unusual/complicated/easily 
> > mis-typed syntax - how about including aspects of OBERON 2 to make things 
> > a little more straightforward.
> 
> 	I don;t know Oberon 2 so you would have to be more detailed for
> want you want...

... As far as I understand it, Oberon 2 is basically a next generation 
C-like environment BUT with sensible use of syntax (making it "safer" to 
program -ie less crashes due to less stupid mistakes)- Aren't I right in 
that in C/C++, something like / could mean something VERY different to // 
for example!

> 							mike

All the best
Richard



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 23 07:23:45 1994
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To: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net, ph@doc.ic.ac.uk
Subject: Re: MARP
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 22 Nov 1994 17:30:20 CST." <Pine.3.89.9411221743.A20546-0100000@nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca>
X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5phi 9/15/94
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 09:11:11 +0000
From: Paul Hickman <ph@doc.ic.ac.uk>
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> 	Going C++ route is good idea but right now C++ support from SAS/C
>   is pretty crappy

I didn't realise it had any :-)

> and if I use GNU C++ then anything I do will be freeware

Not from GCC V2.6.0 onwards. You can now compile it with a link library called
libnix, which means you don't need the GNU ixemul.library file, and your code
can have whatever status you want. If you include G++ class libraries, then the
only restriction placed on you is that you must provide (Or provide  an offer 
to
send the users) the .o or .cc files so the user can re-link the program with 
different
versions of the G++ libraries. But there is no requirement to make the program 
freeware
(At least thats the impression I got from the mess that is the GNU public 
library licensce)

>   Plus I think more systems have a stable C-Enviroment right now.. but this
>   will change in the future though...

Obviously - A bit like the number of systems without a stable AMOS 
envoironment :-)

>   I will try to make MARP easily to 
>   use and customize as I can... although if your program goes into MARP
>   internals it may/will break the portabilty level.. 

This is why I advocate the use of C++. My using derived classes, extension can 
be done
without modifying the internal structures.

> so no IBM... 

Terrible shame.



+-------------------------+------------------------------------+
|                         |    _____                           |
| PAUL HICKMAN            |   /     \   ON A HOT SUMMER NIGHT  |
| (ph@doc.ic.ac.uk)       |  /  O O  \  WOULD YOU  OFFER YOUR  |
| DEPARTMENT OF COMPUTING | |    _    | THROAT  TO  THE  WOLF  |
| IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON |  \  / \  /  WITH THE RED  ROSES ?  |
|                         |   \_____/                          |
+-------------------------+------------------------------------+
Machines: Amiga 500  WB1.3 - 1mb Memory - External Disk Drive.
          Amiga 1200 WB3.0 - 6mb Memory - 200Mb Hard Disk.


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 23 07:24:47 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 07:28:33 +0001 (GMT)
From: "Richard Stitson (Genetics)" <rnms@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
To: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net, Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.ULT.3.90.941122072212.25142A-100000@cc.dixie.edu>
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On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Dave May wrote:

> Well, I would be happy to write an editor that would sport these 
> capabilities.  It sounds as though I would only have to implement a few 
> ARexx macros along with the features I mentioned.
> 
> Plus like I said, I really like the way wysiwyg word processors handle 
> text as opposed to the AMOS editor's attempt.  And users wouldn't have to 
> register CygnusEd :)
> 
> Dave
> 
I agree that a WYSIWYG editor environment would be an improvement BUT 
only if tokenisation is retained/improved. Also, a better, less clumsy 
monitor would be a great help - I find it too slow and cumbersome for any 
sort of regular use.

Richard
 


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Organization: UltiMedia Graphics
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From: Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: The huge C debate
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Right, so now we have more of an idea as to what Mike Sikorski<sp?>
proposes.

Just to see if I've got it right, let me summerise;

MARP will simply be a bunch of pre-compiled C libraries that are linked
in to the normal C source. These libraries will handle functions such
as; screen opening, collision detection. Right?
(I'm not sure of the correct "C" terminology)

The editor only has to output ASCII. So CED, GoldED, MEMACS or Ed will do.

The compiler is a standard C compiler.


Is this the essence of what is being proposed???

Let's try to get all the facts straight before we all start shouting.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea. Although
I'm not sure about wanting an IBM version. Why don't we keep it pure
and Amiga only  ;^)

BTW, I've never seen so much traffic on the list before. :)


G.
--
Gareth D. Edwards, Leeds, West Yorkshire, England.  
E-Address: config@ultim.demon.co.uk
Web Home Page: http://www.gate.net/amos/play/people/GarethEdwards.html
Editor of the Seal FAQ and Future Love Paradise W3 site.

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 23 08:01:16 1994
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From: "P}l Brovold L|berg" <pallo@signy19.stud.unit.no>
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 11:04:25 +0100
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To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: This list?
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Phew! This is the bysiest list I've ever been on.

I Wonder how I could change my mail-address on the list, so all the
mail would end up on another of mine accounts.

Anyone know?

Paul.



-- 

****************** pallo@stud.unit.no ********************
*                                                        *
*      Paal B. Loeberg       *        //  CBM is dead,   *
*                            *       //  but the Amiga   *
*   A1200 W. B1230/40/40     *   \\ //  is still alive!  *
*  676MB HD, 6MB RAM, NO $   *    \X/                    *
*                                                        *
************ http://www.alkymi.unit.no/~pallo ************


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 23 08:39:37 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 11:32:33 +0100 (MET)
From: Flint <Mathieu.Dhondt@rug.ac.be>
To: AMOS <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: EasyLife again.
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.91.941123112649.20753A-100000@eduserv>
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Um, I don't really know whether I should ask these questions to Paul 
personally, or if I should post them to the list. Anyone?

Well, Paul, it seems I'm here again with a question. In your docs, you sa 
that it is possible to use arrays in a given structure (or list). But, 
how do I enter data into that array?
Example:
`Structures begin
` Node: structure
`    Connect: array 10 of integer from 1 to 9
`` Dunno if this is correct, but I guess you get the picture
` end
` Structures end
 Now all the globals... And then, what do I do?

dim a(10)
list=st new (st_node)
for t=1 to 10:a=2:next t
st set (list,st_connect) to a()
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This doesn't work... The docs nowhere state what I should do.
Any help?

Flint.

"My boy, if ever you are lost at sea, drop right in and think of me."
- J. Heller


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 23 12:06:37 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 14:03:10 +0001 (GMT)
From: "Richard Stitson (Genetics)" <rnms@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: The huge C debate
To: Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <9411230852.AA0025c@ultim.demon.co.uk>
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On Wed, 23 Nov 1994, Gareth Edwards wrote:

> Right, so now we have more of an idea as to what Mike Sikorski<sp?>
> proposes.
> 
> Just to see if I've got it right, let me summerise;
> 
> MARP will simply be a bunch of pre-compiled C libraries that are linked
> in to the normal C source. These libraries will handle functions such
> as; screen opening, collision detection. Right?
> (I'm not sure of the correct "C" terminology)
> 
> The editor only has to output ASCII. So CED, GoldED, MEMACS or Ed will do.
> 
> The compiler is a standard C compiler.
> 
> 
> Is this the essence of what is being proposed???
> 
> Let's try to get all the facts straight before we all start shouting.
> 
> The more I think about it, the more I like the idea. Although
> I'm not sure about wanting an IBM version. Why don't we keep it pure
> and Amiga only  ;^)
> 
> BTW, I've never seen so much traffic on the list before. :)
> 

I think you've done a great job encapsulating the essential features of 
MARP as I understand it - If this doesn't convince everyone that MARP 
sounds like a good idea (in parallel with AMOS Basic) then I don't know 
what will - multi-platform packages seem to be in vogue now what with the 
PowerPC etc and if AMOS(sic) can be made to work on all then all the 
better I say. Who needs Click and Play!

Richard



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Sender: CRSO.Amos@canrem.com
Subject: Re: My $.02.. (on C etc.)
From: mike.pelletier@canrem.com (Mike Pelletier)
Message-Id: <60.1053.6587.0C1C007A@canrem.com>
In-Reply-To: <9411230255.AA14874@goober.mbhs.edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 10:00:00 -0500
Organization: CRS Online  (Toronto, Ontario)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

A bit off topic, but thanks for the demo version of the intuition extension.  I
will be registering within the next week.  Way to go!

All the stuff I was wishing for in one package.

Well met and godspeed,
                      Giark

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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 10:07:00 -0500
Organization: CRS Online  (Toronto, Ontario)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

This isn't really to you, Gareth, but...

Does anyone know of an equate that would allow you to use XPR protocols in
APro?  I have written a terminal prg and would like to implement zmodem, etc
without using an extension.

Well met and godspeed,
                      Giark

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 23 15:37:43 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 11:54:17 +0500
From: marty@cs.hope.edu (Ben Marty)
Message-Id: <9411231654.AA08047@sauron.cs.hope.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: TechnoVenture WWW Page
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	I've been working on a the "TechnoPages" lately.  They aren't quite
done, but there's a lot of interesting information for those who may be
interested in TechnoVenture.  Someday I may include maps in this area.
I would like to very much as a matter of fact, but I don't have many maps.
I encourage more of you to register TechnoVenture so you can start making maps
and then we can get a collection going.  The distributable version of
TechnoVenture can be retrieved (via FTP) from Aminet (try wuarchive.wustl.edu)
in the game/jump directory.
	For those who haven't YET heard of it, TechnoVenture is a jump and run
game written and compiled with AMOS Professional.  It won the "Playfield!"
programming contest in the game category.
	Oh, I almost forgot the most important part.  If you want to know more,
the URL for the TechnoPages is
http://www.cs.hope.edu/~marty/TechnoVenture.html

	Please let me know if you have problems.

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 23 15:45:32 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 09:27:08 -0800
From: Jedon Thompson <jvt@acctrep.sannet.gov>
To: sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject:  Re: AMOS 3.0... -Reply
Status: RO
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If the MASP is Linker Libraries, they could be used from any language,
be it Assembly, C, Oberon, Pascal, Basic, Ada, E or even AMOS! This
would be cool!
                                                                                          -Jedon


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 23 16:17:53 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 09:34:22 -0800
From: Jedon Thompson <jvt@acctrep.sannet.gov>
To: sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca, Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject:  Re: AMOS 3.0... -Reply
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I think that the slow and fast functions are a great idea! I love it! Superb!
								-Jedon


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 23 16:46:46 1994
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From: "A.M.Cook" <amc93el@soton.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199411231308.NAA11999@willow.soton.ac.uk>
Subject: C and things
To: amos-list@access.digex.net (Amos_List)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 13:07:35 +0000 (GMT)
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Okay as I see it. MARP will be a linkable library of C functions that
provide an easier access to the Amiga Opperating System. This is
important and would be very useful. I expect it to wotk along the
lines of the ReqTools.library (which is a run time library I know.)
Ie functions like RtReqRequestor(...) to create an inuition file
requestor. (Well the command is a bit like this :-) I forget the
actual syntax.)
This would be most useful to C programmers who have learnt on other
systems and want an easy access to the Amiga without have to read the
mannuals. This is makes MARP a seperate project from AMOS, surely ?
An extension to C.
The other idea for MARP is for a preprocessor type program that will
convert AMOS basic syntax into C code that can then be compilied with
a C compiler. This is what the AMOS compiler does for you anyway.
Except it converts Amos syntax into machine code direct. Rather than
from AMOS to C and then from C to machine code. Hence I feel
improvements to the AMOS compiler are also an important goal.
I would hope to see AMOS moving towards (a vastly improved version)
of the original AmigaBASIC. As I remember this had commands that
opened Intuition screens and windows in a single line without
detailed knowledge of the OS. Okay It was slow, buggy and had no
compiler. but you could (and I have) written intuition programs in
it. 
Note I`m no suggesting we drop all the advances AMOS has made over
AmigaBASIC - before you all mail me.

	Anyway that`s just my personel thoughts on the subject.
				Andrew Cook

What is madness to the many, is sanity to the few.

And for those who need to know - I program in C and AMOS, have an old
A500 with 1mb and 52mb Hard Drive. (And am forced to use UNIX and PC
at University.)

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 23 17:02:23 1994
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From: Matt Pierce <mpierce@hpvclo.vcd.hp.com>
Message-Id: <9411231751.AA11006@hpvclo.vcd.hp.com>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
To: amos-list@access.digex.net (amos list)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 9:51:13 PST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: RO
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> 
> On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Matt Pierce wrote:
> 
> > 
> > C isn't a necessarily a better language than AMOS.  
> 
> 	this I have to repsectfully disagree with you on...

So if you disagree that C isn't necessarily a better language
than AMOS, you are saying that C IS always better than
AMOS.  I will show you an example where it isn't so, further 
down in your response you agreed with an earlier comment of mine
about a better test-debug cycle.  This shows that you even agree
that C is not necessarily a better language than AMOS.

> 
> > It is more verbose,
> > lower-level, doesn't handle errors as well, doesn't have as strict
> > of type-checking, 
> 
> 	this I don;t think is true at all... C is strongly typed... it
>   is much better than amos...

Alright, you say C is strongly typed, I disagree, it may be richly
typed, but not strongly.  Try this in AMOS:
	num1 = 100
        st2$ = "This is a string"
        num1 = str2$

You will get an error.  But in C:
        ...
	short num1;
        char str2[20];
  
        num1 = 100;
        strcpy(str2, "This is a string");
        num1 = str2;

You will not get an error, you MAY get a warning depending upon your 
compiler and its flags set.   I just compiled this on my C compiler
and it compiled fine with NO WARNINGS.  AMOS does much stronger type
checking than C.  C assumes that the programmer knows fully what he/she
is doing and does minimal type-checking which allows a lot of bugs 
to slip in.

Another example: write a short program in AMOS that closes screen 5
even though it is not open - you will get an error message.  Do the same
thing in C by calling CloseScreen() on a screen pointer before you have
opened the screen - you will get a guru. Hence; AMOS in this case 
handled the error better.  There are many more cases where this is so.

> 
> > and doesn't have as quick of a run-debug cycle as
> > AMOS due to its compiled-only nature (to name a few).  
> 
> 	this I agree with... 
> 
> > And MARP won't
> > necessarily be any easier to keep up-to-date with the OS than AMOS if
> > the new owners of AMOS do their jobs right.
> > 
> 
> 	yes but you the user won't be able to keep up... unless you
>    want to write extensions.. and even then its not possible...
> 
> 
Not if the AMOS system uses the system libraries for its OS functions
rather than reimplementing them in its own system the way it does now.
If the new owners make AMOS use the system as it should be, it will 
keep transparently updated when the system updates.

I think what you are really saying is that most implementations of C
are better than the implementation of AMOS, which is not saying that
the C language is better than the AMOS language.

A final example: My wife needed a graphics overlay of an anim she made 
in dpaint onto some live video.  It took me 20 minutes to set it up in
AMOS along with some keypress controls to run the thing.  I wouldn't 
have been able to produce that in less than a couple of hours in C
hence; C was clearly NOT the better language to use in that case.

Matt Pierce

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From: Kimmo Veijalainen <Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi>
Message-Id: <199411232112.XAA04212@liero.cc.lut.fi>
Subject: Equates
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 23:12:41 +0200 (EET)
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Forwarded message:

> Does anyone know of an equate that would allow you to use XPR protocols in
> APro?  I have written a terminal prg and would like to implement zmodem, etc
> without using an extension.

Dunno - just use LSerial extension ;-)


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From: Tuomas Lukinmaa <tumu@janus.otol.fi>
To: CRSO.Amos@canrem.com
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Equates
In-Reply-To: <60.1054.6587.0C1C007B@canrem.com>
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> Does anyone know of an equate that would allow you to use XPR protocols in
> APro?  I have written a terminal prg and would like to implement zmodem, etc
> without using an extension.

I'm too programming a terminal prog with APro and I would be 
interested them too. So if someone have some docs or something then reply.

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 23 19:57:16 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 15:31:04 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: The huge C debate
To: Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <9411230852.AA0025c@ultim.demon.co.uk>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9411231512.A17438-0100000@nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca>
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On Wed, 23 Nov 1994, Gareth Edwards wrote:

> Right, so now we have more of an idea as to what Mike Sikorski<sp?>
> proposes.
> 
> Just to see if I've got it right, let me summerise;
> 
> MARP will simply be a bunch of pre-compiled C libraries that are linked
> in to the normal C source. These libraries will handle functions such
> as; screen opening, collision detection. Right?
> (I'm not sure of the correct "C" terminology)
>

  Exactly... 
 
> The editor only has to output ASCII. So CED, GoldED, MEMACS or Ed will do.
>
  Right Again...
 
> The compiler is a standard C compiler.
> 

  Bingo!

> 
> Is this the essence of what is being proposed???
> 

  Correct...

> Let's try to get all the facts straight before we all start shouting.
> 
> The more I think about it, the more I like the idea. Although
> I'm not sure about wanting an IBM version. Why don't we keep it pure
> and Amiga only  ;^)
> 

  Well the IBM version will be there if you want it... But don;t think
  that MARP will be downgraded to make it Compatible... there will
  be just a 'base' set of routines for compatibilty.. but you can
  go crazy and use all the Amiga/Amos specifc type routines...

						mike


> BTW, I've never seen so much traffic on the list before. :)
> 
> 
> G.
> --
> Gareth D. Edwards, Leeds, West Yorkshire, England.  
> E-Address: config@ultim.demon.co.uk
> Web Home Page: http://www.gate.net/amos/play/people/GarethEdwards.html
> Editor of the Seal FAQ and Future Love Paradise W3 site.
> 

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Message-Id: <9411231906.AA006d2@ckbbs.tor.hookup.net>
From: Shinobi@ckbbs.tor.hookup.net (Shinobi)
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: A new file requester
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Has anyone programmed a better file requester than the standard AMOS one? 
Would it be possible to reprogram it as an item requester from a list of
items?  Could I get the source code?  Many thanks!

Paul

-- Via DLG Pro v1.0

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
| Paul             Fine Lines Publications                |
* Thompson      CGI   Animations   Multimedia             *
|                Shinobi@ckbbs.tor.hookup.net             |
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 23 23:24:09 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 18:47:40 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: Equates
To: CRSO.Amos@canrem.com
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <60.1054.6587.0C1C007B@canrem.com>
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On Wed, 23 Nov 1994, Mike Pelletier wrote:

> This isn't really to you, Gareth, but...
> 
> Does anyone know of an equate that would allow you to use XPR protocols in
> APro?  I have written a terminal prg and would like to implement zmodem, etc
> without using an extension.
>

	No but they should be availiable in Developers Package... Paul's
  probably got it handy.. 

							mike

 
> Well met and godspeed,
>                       Giark
> 

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From: Kimmo Veijalainen <Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi>
Message-Id: <199411240230.EAA05988@liero.cc.lut.fi>
Subject: Argh
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 04:30:16 +0200 (EET)
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Does anyone have the email address of the EME author?
I got email from him but accidentally deleted it :-(


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 24 00:47:15 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 19:32:40 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
To: "Richard Stitson (Genetics)" <rnms@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411230814.C22146-0100000@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
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On Wed, 23 Nov 1994, Richard Stitson (Genetics) wrote:

> While on the subject of suggestions fgor the ADG to implement - is it 
> possible to have fast maths functions for FP/DP numbers 

	yes... for example on SAS/C you picked the math lib you want
   to link with and it will do code to use FP's...

> - at present I am 
> having to stick with longhand maths or use large integers throughout 
> progs and then divide by for example 10 to get real(sic) numbers for 
> output/display purposes. 

	ya I know doesn't this just suck...

It would be much nicer to say ADD etc but would 
> it be faster and possible with FP/DPs.


						mike
> Richard
> 
> 
> 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 24 01:12:02 1994
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	(1.38.193.4/15.6) id AA00778; Wed, 23 Nov 1994 19:58:56 -0700
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 19:58:56 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: A new file requester
To: Shinobi <Shinobi@ckbbs.tor.hookup.net>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <9411231906.AA006d2@ckbbs.tor.hookup.net>
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On Wed, 23 Nov 1994, Shinobi wrote:

> Has anyone programmed a better file requester than the standard AMOS one? 
> Would it be possible to reprogram it as an item requester from a list of
> items?  Could I get the source code?  Many thanks!
>

	Do you mean you want to make your Own Selector... not just 
 dedicated to files but something like this:

	dim items$(3)

	items$(1)="apple"
	items$(2)="banana"
	items$(3)="chesse whiz"

	and then you would go:

	Req(item$) --> so you would have a sliding list to select from ?

	If this is you want you can use Amos Pro Resource's (but I don't
        like it to much) plus other people have coded routines like this
        for example Paul Hickman did for PratchEd.. they were pretty cool
	.. if you want to go the resource route Io can emil example..

						mike

 
> Paul
> 
> -- Via DLG Pro v1.0
> 
> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
> | Paul             Fine Lines Publications                |
> * Thompson      CGI   Animations   Multimedia             *
> |                Shinobi@ckbbs.tor.hookup.net             |
> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
> 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 24 01:27:51 1994
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	(1.38.193.4/15.6) id AA00195; Wed, 23 Nov 1994 19:39:26 -0700
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 19:39:26 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: MARP
To: Paul Hickman <ph@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net, ph@doc.ic.ac.uk
In-Reply-To: <"swan.doc.i.710:23.10.94.09.11.23"@doc.ic.ac.uk>
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On Wed, 23 Nov 1994, Paul Hickman wrote:

> 
> > 	Going C++ route is good idea but right now C++ support from SAS/C
> >   is pretty crappy
> 
> I didn't realise it had any :-)
>

	ya its crap.. it is so slow.. also it lacks a lot of the c++
 features... like templates for example...
 
> > and if I use GNU C++ then anything I do will be freeware
> 
> Not from GCC V2.6.0 onwards. You can now compile it with a link library called
> libnix, which means you don't need the GNU ixemul.library file, and your code
> can have whatever status you want. If you include G++ class libraries, then the
> only restriction placed on you is that you must provide (Or provide  an offer 
> to
> send the users) the .o or .cc files so the user can re-link the program with 
> different
> versions of the G++ libraries. But there is no requirement to make the program 
> freeware
> (At least thats the impression I got from the mess that is the GNU public 
> library licensce)
> 

	cool... I didn't know this... 


> >   Plus I think more systems have a stable C-Enviroment right now.. but this
> >   will change in the future though...
> 
> Obviously - A bit like the number of systems without a stable AMOS 
> envoironment :-)
> 
> >   I will try to make MARP easily to 
> >   use and customize as I can... although if your program goes into MARP
> >   internals it may/will break the portabilty level.. 
> 
> This is why I advocate the use of C++. My using derived classes, extension can 
> be done
> without modifying the internal structures.
> 

	I agree.... c++ will be a seriuos consideration..

> > so no IBM... 
> 
> Terrible shame.
> 

	ya i know.. i f**king hate IBM's... but I just might be forced to
  go to the dark side in the future... but it is the last thing I want to
  do...

	have you guys heard about that another bug was found in the
  pentium.... it will randomly and sporatically return back wrong
  results from division's.... :)  this makes me happy..

							miko

> 
> 
> +-------------------------+------------------------------------+
> |                         |    _____                           |
> | PAUL HICKMAN            |   /     \   ON A HOT SUMMER NIGHT  |
> | (ph@doc.ic.ac.uk)       |  /  O O  \  WOULD YOU  OFFER YOUR  |
> | DEPARTMENT OF COMPUTING | |    _    | THROAT  TO  THE  WOLF  |
> | IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON |  \  / \  /  WITH THE RED  ROSES ?  |
> |                         |   \_____/                          |
> +-------------------------+------------------------------------+
> Machines: Amiga 500  WB1.3 - 1mb Memory - External Disk Drive.
>           Amiga 1200 WB3.0 - 6mb Memory - 200Mb Hard Disk.
> 
> 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 24 01:59:12 1994
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	(1.38.193.4/15.6) id AA29233; Wed, 23 Nov 1994 19:24:59 -0700
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 19:24:59 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
To: Matt Pierce <mpierce@hpvclo.vcd.hp.com>
Cc: amos list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <9411231751.AA11006@hpvclo.vcd.hp.com>
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On Wed, 23 Nov 1994, Matt Pierce wrote:

> > 
> > On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Matt Pierce wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > C isn't a necessarily a better language than AMOS.  
> > 
> > 	this I have to repsectfully disagree with you on...
> 
> So if you disagree that C isn't necessarily a better language
> than AMOS, you are saying that C IS always better than
> AMOS.  I will show you an example where it isn't so, further 
> down in your response you agreed with an earlier comment of mine
> about a better test-debug cycle.  This shows that you even agree
> that C is not necessarily a better language than AMOS.
> 

	Yes the Test-Debug Cycle is faster in Amos... but this has
  to do with 'the whole works'... nothing to do with the actual
  language or grammer... on a strictly 'language' level C is
  superior to Amos... but as a whole picking Amos & C has a development
  tool has relative advantages/disadvantages... 
  ( sorry for the misinterpretation of the semantic's I was using when
    I said language )


> > 
> > > It is more verbose,
> > > lower-level, doesn't handle errors as well, doesn't have as strict
> > > of type-checking, 
> > 
> > 	this I don;t think is true at all... C is strongly typed... it
> >   is much better than amos...
> 
> Alright, you say C is strongly typed, I disagree, it may be richly
> typed, but not strongly.  Try this in AMOS:
> 	num1 = 100
>         st2$ = "This is a string"
>         num1 = str2$
> 
> You will get an error.  But in C:
>         ...
> 	short num1;
>         char str2[20];
>   
>         num1 = 100;
>         strcpy(str2, "This is a string");
>         num1 = str2;
> 
> You will not get an error, you MAY get a warning depending upon your 
> compiler and its flags set.   I just compiled this on my C compiler
> and it compiled fine with NO WARNINGS.  

	But it shouldn't error.... it should although give a warning 
 because you have a'pointer type mismatch' (int) does not equal (char *)...
 ( what compilier are you using is it 'gcc' ?)

	The reason it shouldn't error is because this adds flexibilty
 to C.. ie. okay I'm waring you but if you don't think this is wrong 
 then I'll trust you... 

	my compiler... Sas/c produces a warning and this is with no
 flags set (ie. strict ansi is not even on)....
 
> AMOS does much stronger type
> checking than C.  

	ya but you arelimited to 3 types... which is pretty stupid..
  you wanna talk about crashes... try implementing an IDCMP window
  in Amos... I did it and most of the errors I had would have been 
  spotted by a C compilier... this is how you pass a variable by
  referernce in Amos and C:

	Amos:				c:
	prt = VarPtr(x)			ClipX(&x)
        Proc ClipX(x)
	.				.
	.				.
	.				.
	Procedure ClipX(x_ptr)          Procdure ClipX(int *x) {
	   x=leek(x_ptr)		  *x=min(*x,10)
	   x=min(x,10)
	end proc 			} 


	As you will not Amos can't even produce a warning if someone
  tried to used 'ClipX[]' but forget to get the Address of the variable..
  this really demonstrates a huge pitfall of amos... 

> C assumes that the programmer knows fully what he/she
> is doing and does minimal type-checking which allows a lot of bugs 
> to slip in.
> 

	yes a bad coimpilier might let something go (ie GCC) but most
  decent compiliers will give you the appropriate Warning.. peorsonally
  I would like to have the compileir put some trust in the porgrammer
   this lets you have a little more flexibilty.. but the Warings should
  be there...


> Another example: write a short program in AMOS that closes screen 5
> even though it is not open - you will get an error message.  Do the same
> thing in C by calling CloseScreen() on a screen pointer before you have
> opened the screen - you will get a guru. 

	*** But M_CloseScreen() <> CloseScreen()... I can guarentee 100%
  that you would not crash your machine by using M_CloseScreen() on non
  existant screens... 


> Hence; AMOS in this case 
> handled the error better.  There are many more cases where this is so.
> 

	yes when you compare Amos directly to the Operating System 
  equivalent... but your not supposed to do that.. your supposed to
  compare it to MARP...

> > 
> > > and doesn't have as quick of a run-debug cycle as
> > > AMOS due to its compiled-only nature (to name a few).  
> > 
> > 	this I agree with... 
> > 
> > > And MARP won't
> > > necessarily be any easier to keep up-to-date with the OS than AMOS if
> > > the new owners of AMOS do their jobs right.
> > > 
> > 
> > 	yes but you the user won't be able to keep up... unless you
> >    want to write extensions.. and even then its not possible...
> > 
> > 
> Not if the AMOS system uses the system libraries for its OS functions
> rather than reimplementing them in its own system the way it does now.

	ya but that'sthe problem it still does...

> If the new owners make AMOS use the system as it should be, it will 
> keep transparently updated when the system updates.
> 
	I totally agree... this is a huge desing goal.. but Amos Updates
  are hard right now because 1. Francois is Krazy 2. we only have a
  dissasmbled version of the source... this is not good for major
  updates... diassembly is fine for minor patches... but thats not what
  needs to be done..

> I think what you are really saying is that most implementations of C
> are better than the implementation of AMOS, which is not saying that
> the C language is better than the AMOS language.
> 

	yes it is.. presently... possibly in the future this may change..

> A final example: My wife needed a graphics overlay of an anim she made 
> in dpaint onto some live video.  It took me 20 minutes to set it up in
> AMOS along with some keypress controls to run the thing.  I wouldn't 
> have been able to produce that in less than a couple of hours in C
> hence; C was clearly NOT the better language to use in that case.
> 

	But it would be exactly the same using MARP... yes if you had
to start digging in your RKM's and start trying to write an Iff anim
loader.. well then forget it... but you won;t be doing this with MARP..
it is kinda the idea behind the whole thing... and we are using different
semantics for 'language'...

							mike


> Matt Pierce
> 

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From: saylor@tcet.unt.edu (Matt Sayler)
Message-Id: <9411240558.AA163336@tcet.unt.edu>
Subject: AMOS 3.0
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 23:58:57 CST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL17]
Status: RO
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>Hei, hei boys...
>slow down, please...
>why you want to transform AMOS in C ?
>I don't know C, but I want to learn it... but I will study only real C.
>If I wanted (as I want) to learn some other powerful language near C I 
>would study Amiga E, which I think its the best language which comes near C.
>
>AMOS is BASIC and should stay BASIC!!!
>
>I love AMOS as I have not to learn nothing about the machine hardware, 
>nor how the system work and all the major effort is taken by the system 
>without I even know about it (sprite & bob handling, dualplayfield, AMAL, 
>RAINBOW, multi scrolling zones etc...).
>It can seem a stupid way of thinking... but as I said if I wanted 
>something more I will learn C.
 
It's pretty obvious that you don't already know C, because if you did,
you woll the stupid crap you get by using BASIC as your base language.
 
All commands could be implemented almost the same way. (Would you mind
draw(50,50,100,100); instead of Draw 50,50 to 100,100?)
 
That's about my fourth cent so far but...oh well.


Spam-235 / John Williams / saylor@tcet.unt.edu
"But if there's no Silicon Hell, where do all the Macintoshes go?"


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From: saylor@tcet.unt.edu (Matt Sayler)
Message-Id: <9411240615.AA163561@tcet.unt.edu>
Subject: AMOS, BASIC, and C
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 94 0:15:13 CST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL17]
Status: RO
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>My next gripe is; why do we have to change everything to C syntax??
>Are there any speed advantages to the way the syntax of C source?
>If the only advantage is that there are less cases of "badly structured"
>programs, then this is the programmers problem.
>I would rather see the syntax a kind of hybrid between C and BASIC.
>Of course, this causes problems if you want to include C listing.
>But if you can create an Amos to MARP convertor, surely you can create
>a GAVOMARP (Gareth's Augmented Version Of MARP)??
>This would mean we get rid of {}'s and use something easier to read.
 
I disagree. A hybrid of BASIC and C would be incredibly bad. One of the
best reasons to go to C is that you would then be working according to a 
very popular and well-defined standard. The hybrid syntax is the reason
I never eE. Also, what have you got against
{}? Would you want to replace this if endif? As my friend (who is a C
programmer) is fond of pointing out, C is, if nothing else, consistent.
Braces are not at all hard to understand and if you indent properly
they do not reduce readability.
 


Spam-235 / John Williams / saylor@tcet.unt.edu
"But if there's no Silicon Hell, where do all the Macintoshes go?"


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From: Matt Pierce <mpierce@hpvclo.vcd.hp.com>
Message-Id: <9411240604.AA19870@hpvclo.vcd.hp.com>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
To: amos-list@access.digex.net (amos list)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 22:04:33 PST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> 
> 
> On Wed, 23 Nov 1994, Matt Pierce wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > > On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Matt Pierce wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > C isn't a necessarily a better language than AMOS.  
> > > 
> > > 	this I have to repsectfully disagree with you on...
> > 
> > So if you disagree that C isn't necessarily a better language
> > than AMOS, you are saying that C IS always better than
> > AMOS.  I will show you an example where it isn't so, further 
> > down in your response you agreed with an earlier comment of mine
> > about a better test-debug cycle.  This shows that you even agree
> > that C is not necessarily a better language than AMOS.
> > 
> 
> 	Yes the Test-Debug Cycle is faster in Amos... but this has
>   to do with 'the whole works'... nothing to do with the actual
>   language or grammer... on a strictly 'language' level C is
>   superior to Amos... but as a whole picking Amos & C has a development
>   tool has relative advantages/disadvantages... 
>   ( sorry for the misinterpretation of the semantic's I was using when
>     I said language )
> 
> 
> > > 
> > > > It is more verbose,
> > > > lower-level, doesn't handle errors as well, doesn't have as strict
> > > > of type-checking, 
> > > 
> > > 	this I don;t think is true at all... C is strongly typed... it
> > >   is much better than amos...
> > 
> > Alright, you say C is strongly typed, I disagree, it may be richly
> > typed, but not strongly.  Try this in AMOS:
> > 	num1 = 100
> >         st2$ = "This is a string"
> >         num1 = str2$
> > 
> > You will get an error.  But in C:
> >         ...
> > 	short num1;
> >         char str2[20];
> >   
> >         num1 = 100;
> >         strcpy(str2, "This is a string");
> >         num1 = str2;
> > 
> > You will not get an error, you MAY get a warning depending upon your 
> > compiler and its flags set.   I just compiled this on my C compiler
> > and it compiled fine with NO WARNINGS.  
> 
> 	But it shouldn't error.... it should although give a warning 
>  because you have a'pointer type mismatch' (int) does not equal (char *)...
>  ( what compilier are you using is it 'gcc' ?)

If you look at it from the 'C' philosophy, then it shouldn't error, but
if you look at it from a strongly typed language like M2, ADA, AMOS, etc.
then an error is appropriate.  You must look at the philosophies behind
the languages, not just one.

> 
> 	The reason it shouldn't error is because this adds flexibilty
>  to C.. ie. okay I'm waring you but if you don't think this is wrong 
>  then I'll trust you...

Right, it adds it to C, but C isn't the best and only language.  You will
get much resistance from Nickalaus Wirth (sp) who invented Pascal, Oberon,
and was a big player in M2, he believes (from what I learned) that the 
compiler needs to do strong type-checking and use explicit conversions.
I will agree on this in certain cases, and disagree on others, it depends
upon the project and available tools.
 
> 
> 	my compiler... Sas/c produces a warning and this is with no
>  flags set (ie. strict ansi is not even on)....
>  
> > AMOS does much stronger type
> > checking than C.  
> 
> 	ya but you arelimited to 3 types... which is pretty stupid..
>   you wanna talk about crashes... try implementing an IDCMP window
>   in Amos... I did it and most of the errors I had would have been 
>   spotted by a C compilier... this is how you pass a variable by
>   referernce in Amos and C:
> 
> 	Amos:				c:
> 	prt = VarPtr(x)			ClipX(&x)
>         Proc ClipX(x)
> 	.				.
> 	.				.
> 	.				.
> 	Procedure ClipX(x_ptr)          Procdure ClipX(int *x) {
> 	   x=leek(x_ptr)		  *x=min(*x,10)
> 	   x=min(x,10)
> 	end proc 			} 
> 
> 
> 	As you will not Amos can't even produce a warning if someone
>   tried to used 'ClipX[]' but forget to get the Address of the variable..
>   this really demonstrates a huge pitfall of amos... 

How does this differ from C?

> 
> > C assumes that the programmer knows fully what he/she
> > is doing and does minimal type-checking which allows a lot of bugs 
> > to slip in.
> > 
> 
> 	yes a bad coimpilier might let something go (ie GCC) but most
>   decent compiliers will give you the appropriate Warning.. peorsonally
>   I would like to have the compileir put some trust in the porgrammer
>    this lets you have a little more flexibilty.. but the Warings should
>   be there...

It doesn't allow anymore flexibility than other more strongly-typed
languages that allow type conversion, it just allows for sloppier
programming.

> 
> 
> > Another example: write a short program in AMOS that closes screen 5
> > even though it is not open - you will get an error message.  Do the same
> > thing in C by calling CloseScreen() on a screen pointer before you have
> > opened the screen - you will get a guru. 
> 
> 	*** But M_CloseScreen() <> CloseScreen()... I can guarentee 100%
>   that you would not crash your machine by using M_CloseScreen() on non
>   existant screens... 

But we're not talking AMOS Vs. MARP, we are talking AMOS vs. C (you stated
that C (not MARP) is superior to AMOS in all respects).
> 
> 
> > Hence; AMOS in this case 
> > handled the error better.  There are many more cases where this is so.
> > 
> 
> 	yes when you compare Amos directly to the Operating System 
>   equivalent... but your not supposed to do that.. your supposed to
>   compare it to MARP...


No no no, the discussion is AMOS vs. C.

> 
> > > 
> > > > and doesn't have as quick of a run-debug cycle as
> > > > AMOS due to its compiled-only nature (to name a few).  
> > > 
> > > 	this I agree with... 
> > > 
> > > > And MARP won't
> > > > necessarily be any easier to keep up-to-date with the OS than AMOS if
> > > > the new owners of AMOS do their jobs right.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 	yes but you the user won't be able to keep up... unless you
> > >    want to write extensions.. and even then its not possible...
> > > 
> > > 
> > Not if the AMOS system uses the system libraries for its OS functions
> > rather than reimplementing them in its own system the way it does now.
> 
> 	ya but that'sthe problem it still does...
> 
> > If the new owners make AMOS use the system as it should be, it will 
> > keep transparently updated when the system updates.
> > 
> 	I totally agree... this is a huge desing goal.. but Amos Updates
>   are hard right now because 1. Francois is Krazy 2. we only have a
>   dissasmbled version of the source... this is not good for major
>   updates... diassembly is fine for minor patches... but thats not what
>   needs to be done..
> 
> > I think what you are really saying is that most implementations of C
> > are better than the implementation of AMOS, which is not saying that
> > the C language is better than the AMOS language.
> > 
> 
> 	yes it is.. presently... possibly in the future this may change..

'yes it is' what?  C is better than AMOS, no it is not and I have given
you examples (all I need is 1) where AMOS is better than C.

> 
> > A final example: My wife needed a graphics overlay of an anim she made 
> > in dpaint onto some live video.  It took me 20 minutes to set it up in
> > AMOS along with some keypress controls to run the thing.  I wouldn't 
> > have been able to produce that in less than a couple of hours in C
> > hence; C was clearly NOT the better language to use in that case.
> > 
> 
> 	But it would be exactly the same using MARP... yes if you had
> to start digging in your RKM's and start trying to write an Iff anim
> loader.. well then forget it... but you won;t be doing this with MARP..
> it is kinda the idea behind the whole thing... and we are using different
> semantics for 'language'...

I understand what you are saying, but MARP doesn't exist anywhere right
now except on your system, so I cannot compare AMOS to something that
is not generally available, and anyway we are comparing AMOS vs. C here,
not AMOS vs. MARP.  If you want to change to MARP vs AMOS then that is 
fine if they both have the same type/error checking and functionality.
I will happily concede in that case.

Matt Pierce

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Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 10:17:55 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Re: My $.02.. (on C etc.)
To: CRSO.Amos@canrem.com
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <60.1053.6587.0C1C007A@canrem.com>
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On Wed, 23 Nov 1994, Mike Pelletier wrote:

> A bit off topic, but thanks for the demo version of the intuition extension.  I
> will be registering within the next week.  Way to go!
> 
> All the stuff I was wishing for in one package.
> 
> Well met and godspeed,
>                       Giark

Can I have the Intuition Demo too, plaese?

M&F

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Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 10:47:58 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0
To: Matt Sayler <saylor@tcet.unt.edu>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
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> >Hei, hei boys...
> >slow down, please...
> >why you want to transform AMOS in C ?
> >I don't know C, but I want to learn it... but I will study only real C.
> >If I wanted (as I want) to learn some other powerful language near C I 
> >would study Amiga E, which I think its the best language which comes near C.
> >
> >AMOS is BASIC and should stay BASIC!!!
> >
> >I love AMOS as I have not to learn nothing about the machine hardware, 
> >nor how the system work and all the major effort is taken by the system 
> >without I even know about it (sprite & bob handling, dualplayfield, AMAL, 
> >RAINBOW, multi scrolling zones etc...).
> >It can seem a stupid way of thinking... but as I said if I wanted 
> >something more I will learn C.
>  
> It's pretty obvious that you don't already know C, because if you did,
> you woll the stupid crap you get by using BASIC as your base language.
>  
> All commands could be implemented almost the same way. (Would you mind
> draw(50,50,100,100); instead of Draw 50,50 to 100,100?)
>  

Ok, you're right, but so it is only a compiler problem! Not of syntax.
I don't want to get mad about all that {}''//**&&++ etc...
I want the current syntax which is simple.
Maybe you should invert Uppercase letters with lowcase letters so that 
commands are capital and varables and argumets lowcase. But still does 
not influeces the syntax.
I would like a program which would convert my AMOS script in C syntax so 
to be able to compile it with a C compiler.
But why I have to change the way I have programmed since yesterday?
Just add a aoption such as AMOS<->C (also the inverse would be useful!)
and that will be much better than writing another C language clone.

Just my opinion.

M&F

P.S. What are the stupid craps you get with BASIC?

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Nov 24 09:07:58 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 12:37:01 +0200 (EET)
From: Petri Hakkinen <mystic@tlti.tokem.fi>
Subject: Re: airTaxi speed
To: Darryl Lewis <Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
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> > I think the 64 was a good machine - it has some programming functions
> (even
> > in basic) that amos doesn't have. Yeah, that's right, 
> > the 64 has features in basic that Amos doesn't!
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>  PH> like what? I happen to have C-64 still and don't recall such commands
>  PH> that 
>  PH> Amos doesn't have nor tasks amos can't handle. 
> 
>   Petri,
> I mentioned the 1 of the commands missing in the mail that you cut the
> above from!
> Namely, bob/sprite to background collisions. There is no way to detect if a
> bob/sprite touches a piece of back ground. 
> Oh, I know about using the point command, but if you have a complicated
> object, you have a lot of points. SLOW!!
> Also the point command needs to touch exactly on the background. In my case
> a leg of a rocket ship touching a line. I'd need points all around the ship
> to see if it had touched the line anywhere else other that the leg.
> 

And there is such a command in C-64 basic (sprite to background 
collision)??? Wow, I didn't know about that really... 

- Pete  mystic@tlti.tokem.fi

> Darryl
> 
> -- Via DLG Pro v1.0
> 
> 


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To: Flint <Mathieu.Dhondt@rug.ac.be>, amos-list@access.digex.net
Cc: ph@doc.ic.ac.uk
Subject: Re: EasyLife again.
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 23 Nov 1994 11:32:33 +0100." <Pine.SOL.3.91.941123112649.20753A-100000@eduserv>
X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5phi 9/15/94
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 11:27:30 +0000
From: Paul Hickman <ph@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <"fulmar.doc.310:24.10.94.11.27.34"@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> Um, I don't really know whether I should ask these questions to Paul 
> personally, or if I should post them to the list. Anyone?
> 
> Well, Paul, it seems I'm here again with a question. In your docs, you sa 
> that it is possible to use arrays in a given structure (or list). But, 
> how do I enter data into that array?

> Example:
> `Structures begin
> ` Node: structure
> `    Connect: array 10 of integer from 1 to 9
> `` Dunno if this is correct, but I guess you get the picture
> ` end
> ` Structures end
>  Now all the globals... And then, what do I do?
> 
> dim a(10)
> list=st new (st_node)
> for t=1 to 10:a=2:next t
                      ^^^ I think you mean a(t)=2 
> st set (list,st_connect) to a()
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> This doesn't work... The docs nowhere state what I should do.
> Any help?

There is no array assignment. I.E. You can't copy an array into a
structure in one instruction. You can't do this in AMOS either e.g.
A()  = B() is meaningless.


Replace the st set line with:

For T=1 to 10
   St Set LIST,ST_CONNECT,T To A(T)
Next T

Or, dispense with the A() array altogether and write into the
structure's array directly.

For T=1 To 10
   St Set LIST,ST_CONNECT,T To 2
Next T


Also note that St Set has no brackets arround the first elements.
St Set takes up to 3 array indexes as additional parameters before
the 'To' to specify which array element to access.


+-------------------------+------------------------------------+
|                         |    _____                           |
| PAUL HICKMAN            |   /     \   ON A HOT SUMMER NIGHT  |
| (ph@doc.ic.ac.uk)       |  /  O O  \  WOULD YOU  OFFER YOUR  |
| DEPARTMENT OF COMPUTING | |    _    | THROAT  TO  THE  WOLF  |
| IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON |  \  / \  /  WITH THE RED  ROSES ?  |
|                         |   \_____/                          |
+-------------------------+------------------------------------+
Machines: Amiga 500  WB1.3 - 1mb Memory - External Disk Drive.
          Amiga 1200 WB3.0 - 6mb Memory - 200Mb Hard Disk.


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Fri Nov 25 20:52:10 1994
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 (for amos-list@access.digex.com)
From: Kimmo Veijalainen <Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi>
Message-Id: <199411252326.BAA27242@liero.cc.lut.fi>
Subject: Amospro "paint" command...
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 1994 01:26:22 +0200 (EET)
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...sometimes "paint" does not work. It just does nothing.
The areas I try to fill (in mode 1) look like this:


 +>xx
 |  xx
 |   x
 |   xx
 |    x
 |    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 |      xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
 |        xxx   xxxxxx
 |                xx
 |
 This is where the filling starts...

Any idea what might be wrong?

I need this for "flood" type weapons in my artillery game :-)
I first fill the area with a recursive floodfill-variant with a flashing 
color (7) then paint it gray with "paint"-command...

Also, "paint" seems _VERY_ slow :-o A floodfill written in Amos using
"Ma Point" and "Ma Plot" (from makelib extension) seems to be about as 
fast :-p But I don't like unnecessary code in my programs so I'd like 
this paint problem solved.
Thanks.


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sat Nov 26 22:31:08 1994
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Date: Sat, 26 Nov 1994 19:23:40 -0500 (EST)
From: sfmcnally@BIX.com
Subject: Stix 2
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Message-Id: <9411261923.memo.1660@BIX.com>
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Does anyone know how I can get the Stix/Sticks(?) -2- Extension?
It has CD32 pad support, right?

Seumas @ Dark Unicorn Productions
(sfmcnally@bix.com)

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sun Nov 27 00:59:02 1994
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To: apana-lists-lang-amos@apana.org.au
Path: ion.apana.org.au!grn
From: grn@ion.apana.org.au (Geoffrey Newman)
Newsgroups: apana.lists.lang.amos
Subject: =hardcol and Set Hardcol
Date: 27 Nov 1994 01:24:21 GMT
Organization: Internet Online - on the APANA network in NSW Australia.
Lines: 14
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Could someone please post some example code for these two or tell me
where I can find some?


Many thanks.


--

 Geoffrey Newman
 grn@alcove.apana.org.au


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sun Nov 27 05:57:42 1994
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Date: Sat, 26 Nov 1994 22:06:01 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: AMOS ?
To: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
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	Just curious but does anyone one know what AMOS stands for ?
(I keep wanting to say Amiga Operating System :) )


								mike

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sun Nov 27 10:47:07 1994
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Date: Sun, 27 Nov 94 13:11:05 GMT
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Organization: Fortune Software
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From: Dominic Ramsey <dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Stix 2
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hi amos-list@access.digex.net
   In <9411261923.memo.1660@BIX.com> sfmcnally@bix.com wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know how I can get the Stix/Sticks(?) -2- Extension?
> It has CD32 pad support, right?

Email ncritten@cix.compulink.co.uk

(Nigel Critten)

It's not PD, but I don't know how much he charges for it.

It also require lowlevel.library (from Workbench 3.1)

Dom

--
Dominic Ramsey      email: dom@dynamo.demon.co.uk
http://www.gate.net/user/play/people/dramsey.html

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sun Nov 27 10:47:08 1994
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Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 13:48:06 +0200 (EET)
From: Tuomas Lukinmaa <tumu@janus.otol.fi>
To: AMOS Mailing list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: bug in POLYGON
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.90.941127134115.7467A-100000@janus>
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I wrote a 3D-routine, which was in one magazine and I modified it to
work in AMOS, but I also noticed when I added POLYGON-command to
draw sides of the object, if you don't put all necessary numbers
in POLYGON-command, it crashes. I have tried many ways to use POLYGON-
command, that it crashes and I'm sure that I has a bug.

		Tuomas


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sun Nov 27 14:47:58 1994
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From: Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS ?
Status: RO
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Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca> wrote:

> 	Just curious but does anyone one know what AMOS stands for ?
> (I keep wanting to say Amiga Operating System :) )

AFAIK, AMOS does stand for AMiga Operating System.

Franios' previous project was STOS which, again AFAIK, stands for
ST Operating System.

I can't think of anything else it could mean, well apart from;

Actively Maim the Operating System, which AMOS does pretty well, IMHO :)

G.
--
Gareth Edwards, Leeds, England. 
E-mail: config@ultim.demon.co.uk
Web HomePage: http://www.gate.net/amos/play/people/GarethEdwards.html

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sun Nov 27 15:57:29 1994
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Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 13:37:26 -0500 (EST)
From: sfmcnally@BIX.com
Subject: Re: AMOS ?
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
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Mike,

Amos DOES stand for "AMigaOperatingSystem", just like STOS stood for
"ST OperatingSystem".  ;)

Seumas @ Dark Unicorn Productions
(sfmcnally@bix.com)

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sun Nov 27 16:42:50 1994
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Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 13:43:04 -0500 (EST)
From: sfmcnally@BIX.com
Subject: CD32 Pad
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
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Well, I just heard that Stix 2 has a per-copy sold liscense, that isn't all
that appealing to me...  Though I'd still like to try a demo of it.

Now, can anyone tell me if:

1. I can (Legaly?) include LowLevel.Library (the one with CD32 pad support)
   in a Memory Bank, and call it's functions from inside the bank?  Is that
   possible with Shared Amiga System Libraries?
 1b. What are the command offsets and parameters required to use the LowLevel.
     Library to read a CD32 pad?
2. How to code a Machine-Lang extension (I know how to make an extension) that
   will read a CD32 Pad?

Thanks a bunch to anyone who can help!

Seumas @ Dark Unicorn Productions
(sfmcnally@bix.com)

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Sun Nov 27 18:24:52 1994
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From: Kimmo Veijalainen <Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi>
Message-Id: <199411272152.XAA13710@liero.cc.lut.fi>
Subject: Re: AMOS ?
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 23:52:17 +0200 (EET)
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> AFAIK, AMOS does stand for AMiga Operating System.
> 
> Franios' previous project was STOS which, again AFAIK, stands for
> ST Operating System.
> 
> I can't think of anything else it could mean, well apart from;
> 
> Actively Maim the Operating System, which AMOS does pretty well, IMHO :)

What about

A Mighty Operating System :-)
A Mound Of S**t           :-(

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 05:07:21 1994
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From: Jurgen Valks <J.VALKS@hsbos.nl>
Organization:  Hogeschool 's-Hertogenbosch
To: tumu@janus.otol.fi, amos-list@access.digex.net
Date:          Mon, 28 Nov 1994 08:04:21 GMT-1DFT
Subject:       Re: bug in POLYGON
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> I wrote a 3D-routine, which was in one magazine and I modified it to
> work in AMOS, but I also noticed when I added POLYGON-command to
> draw sides of the object, if you don't put all necessary numbers
> in POLYGON-command, it crashes. I have tried many ways to use POLYGON-
> command, that it crashes and I'm sure that I has a bug.

I said that to Francois a year ago, but he said it's not a bug. What he
told me was that the user has to check if the polygon doesn't go beyond
the screen limit....


Greetings from,

/---------------------------------------------------------------------\
|   Jurgen Valks, Helpdesk HEAO                                       |
|   Tel     : +31 (0)73-295400  Email: j.valks@hsbos.nl               | 
|   Systems : Amiga 2000, Amiga 1200 68030, 50Mhz, 6Mb                |
|              Amiga 1200, 68030 50Mhz. Pc-DX2 66, SNES               |
\_____________________________________________________________________/

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 07:03:15 1994
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 09:03:32 +0100 (CET)
From: D.Vissers@hi.ft.HSE.NL
Subject: Stix 2 more...
To: Amos-list@access.digex.net
Message-Id: <8B429C73E0@hi.ft.hse.nl>
Organization: Hogeschool Eindhoven
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> From:           sfmcnally@BIX.com

> Does anyone know how I can get the Stix/Sticks(?) -2- Extension?
> It has CD32 pad support, right?
> 
> Seumas @ Dark Unicorn Productions
> (sfmcnally@bix.com)

Euh... that goes for me too. !

 
Greetings from:   Dave 'Dopex' Vissers
                  D.Vissers@HI.FT.HSE.NL

My modules are available on...     F:\pub\amiga\mods\dopex
HI.FT.HSE.NL   /   145.85.114.1   /   145.85.113.2

THE EARTH IS FLAT  ,  PIGS CAN FLY AND NUCLEAR-POWER IS SAFE !
                                               'Greenpeace' 

If you want a silly answer from Prof. I Noit add a '##' in the 
subject.     
                

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 08:51:24 1994
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 10:42:14 +0100 (MET)
From: Flint <Mathieu.Dhondt@rug.ac.be>
To: "Ralph E. Piper" <RPIPER@pucc.Princeton.EDU>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: help with loading extentions
In-Reply-To: <199411242125.AA21957@nfs1.digex.net>
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On Thu, 24 Nov 1994, Ralph E. Piper wrote:

> i have recently bought AMOSPro v. 1.12.  The install program kept breaking on m
> e, so i installed the program manually..most things seem to work ok, except tha
> t i don't seem to be able to load any configuration except the default that cam
> e with the system.  if i try to add an extention (via the extention list) like
> AmosPro_EasyLife.lib, and save the configuration, AMOS wont open and i get a "b
> ad config" message. the extentions are located in the APSystem directory, and i
>  am following the instructions for adding extentions exactly (at least i think
> i am).
A few days ago, I was experiencing the same problems. I just recopied the 
originals, re-updated them, copied the copy of the system disk and then 
tried, and tried, and tried. Finally, I just had to create a self 
booting system disk with all the AMOS essentials on it (in fact, just the 
System disk recopied) and the extensions in the right folder. I used to 
boot from my WB disk, but that's over now. It seems to work more when 
booting from the Sys disk. Mind, I've got no HD, and I dunno about you. 
Also, watch out for those libs folders called libs13 or libs20. I think I 
had to rename them, or at least copy the libraries inside into the 
'official' libs folder.

Anyway.

"My boy, if ever you are lost at sea, drop right in and think of me."
- J. Heller


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 08:53:05 1994
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To: sfmcnally@bix.com, amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: CD32 Pad
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 27 Nov 1994 13:43:04 EST." <9411271343.memo.3722@BIX.com>
X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5phi 9/15/94
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 10:08:36 +0000
From: Paul Hickman <ph@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <"frigate.do.411:28.10.94.10.08.59"@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> Well, I just heard that Stix 2 has a per-copy sold liscense, that isn't all
> that appealing to me...  Though I'd still like to try a demo of it.
> 
> Now, can anyone tell me if:
> 
> 1. I can (Legaly?) include LowLevel.Library (the one with CD32 pad support)
>    in a Memory Bank, and call it's functions from inside the bank?  Is that
>    possible with Shared Amiga System Libraries?

With a bit og hacking, that would be possible, but not legal.

>  1b. What are the command offsets and parameters required to use the LowLevel.
>      Library to read a CD32 pad?

You'd need the V40 developers pack from commodore - just look in the 
lowlevel_lib.i
file, although nowdays these all seem to use macros, so you have to assemble 
the
damm things and look at the symbol table, or count functions starting at -30, 
and 
subtracting 6 per function.


+-------------------------+------------------------------------+
|                         |    _____                           |
| PAUL HICKMAN            |   /     \   ON A HOT SUMMER NIGHT  |
| (ph@doc.ic.ac.uk)       |  /  O O  \  WOULD YOU  OFFER YOUR  |
| DEPARTMENT OF COMPUTING | |    _    | THROAT  TO  THE  WOLF  |
| IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON |  \  / \  /  WITH THE RED  ROSES ?  |
|                         |   \_____/                          |
+-------------------------+------------------------------------+
Machines: Amiga 500  WB1.3 - 1mb Memory - External Disk Drive.
          Amiga 1200 WB3.0 - 6mb Memory - 200Mb Hard Disk.


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 08:55:33 1994
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 05:30:51 -0500 (EST)
From: sfmcnally@BIX.com
Subject: Re: CD32 Pad
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Message-Id: <9411280530.memo.6232@BIX.com>
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Paul,

But isn't it possible to "link" C= libraries into the executable of a
program written in C or ASM and distribute the whole thing freely?

Just how complicated is it to read a CD32 pad without lowlevel.library?
Does anyone know how?

Geeze, I -really- want CD32 pad support, and on ANY Amiga would be nice...

Seumas @ Dark Unicorn Productions
(sfmcnally@bix.com)

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 08:56:30 1994
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To: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
Cc: Darryl Lewis <Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au>, amos-list@access.digex.net,
        ph@doc.ic.ac.uk
Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 25 Nov 1994 14:29:32 MST." <Pine.ULT.3.90.941125141850.655A-100000@cc.dixie.edu>
X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5phi 9/15/94
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 10:13:05 +0000
From: Paul Hickman <ph@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <"swan.doc.i.115:28.10.94.10.13.22"@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> > FIX THE DAMN EXISTING BUGS FIRST THEN DREAM!
> 
> Those working on the AMOS interpreter have all agreed thus far to 
> eradicate the many bugs before moving on.  I would suggest to everyone 
> that we all send in the bugs we have discovered to this group if they are 
> willing to take them, as private E-Mail or whatever.
> 

Send bugs with as much background information (Example code, Machine type, 
AMOSPro version, Extensions Loaded etc.) to:

	adt@clare.tased.edu.au

For more vague "might be a bug", or non reproduceable bugs, send them to this
list to see if anyone else is experiencing the same problems.



+-------------------------+------------------------------------+
|                         |    _____                           |
| PAUL HICKMAN            |   /     \   ON A HOT SUMMER NIGHT  |
| (ph@doc.ic.ac.uk)       |  /  O O  \  WOULD YOU  OFFER YOUR  |
| DEPARTMENT OF COMPUTING | |    _    | THROAT  TO  THE  WOLF  |
| IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON |  \  / \  /  WITH THE RED  ROSES ?  |
|                         |   \_____/                          |
+-------------------------+------------------------------------+
Machines: Amiga 500  WB1.3 - 1mb Memory - External Disk Drive.
          Amiga 1200 WB3.0 - 6mb Memory - 200Mb Hard Disk.


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 10:24:31 1994
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From: <GREGORY@ekefe.gel.ariadne-t.gr>
Organization:  Grammateia Eidikoy Logariasmoy
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date:          Mon, 28 Nov 1994 15:19:45 
Subject:       About Extensions...
Priority: normal
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    I'm about to finish an extension.Does anybody know what do I have 
to do in order to be "officially" recognized?

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 11:01:24 1994
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 08:41:48 +0500
From: marty@cs.hope.edu (Ben Marty)
Message-Id: <9411281341.AA10950@sauron.cs.hope.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net, Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi
Subject: Re: Amospro "paint" command...
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Content-Length: 532
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> Also, "paint" seems _VERY_ slow :-o A floodfill written in Amos using
> "Ma Point" and "Ma Plot" (from makelib extension) seems to be about as 
> fast :-p But I don't like unnecessary code in my programs so I'd like 
> this paint problem solved.

	Really!?  I thought the AMOS Paint command was rather quick compared
to what I was used to.  It's very fast compared to Blitz BASIC's floodfill
command (whatever it is).  I tried that once and could see the painting
happening.  With AMOS, it's just a flash and the shape is filled.

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 11:17:38 1994
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 08:49:03 +0500
From: marty@cs.hope.edu (Ben Marty)
Message-Id: <9411281349.AA10960@sauron.cs.hope.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net, tumu@janus.otol.fi
Subject: Re: bug in POLYGON
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Content-Length: 1216
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> I wrote a 3D-routine, which was in one magazine and I modified it to
> work in AMOS, but I also noticed when I added POLYGON-command to
> draw sides of the object, if you don't put all necessary numbers
> in POLYGON-command, it crashes. I have tried many ways to use POLYGON-
> command, that it crashes and I'm sure that I has a bug.

	This sounds like the perfect time to announce my AMOS WWW page.  On
there can be found example programs for 3D plotting & rotation for 3D glasses
as well as a manual filled polygon drawing routine using a linked list for the
edges.  These are only a couple of the many programs available.  All of it is
AMOS source code is ASCII format.  Take a look -- the URL is
http://www.cs.hope.edu/~marty/AMOSProgs.html
Note the tilde before marty and the capitalization of AMOSProgs.html when
entering the URL into Mosiac, Netscape or whatever you use.
	Oh, just to explain a little further, the manual filled polygon routine
can draw filled polygons with almost 10,000 edges!  And you need not have a
constant/predefined number of edges.
	Please let me know if anybody can successfully retrieve and run any
routines on my AMOS page.  I haven't gotten any feedback from my WWW pages yet.

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 14:44:38 1994
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 20:15:49 1100
Message-Id: <9411290215.AA00v7s@comlink.mpx.com.au>
From: Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au (Darryl Lewis)
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: My $.02.. (on C etc.)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

 MB> On Wed, 23 Nov 1994, Mike Pelletier wrote:

> A bit off topic, but thanks for the demo version of the intuition
extension.  I
> will be registering within the next week.  Way to go!
> 
> All the stuff I was wishing for in one package.
> 
> Well met and godspeed,
>                       Giark

 MB> Can I have the Intuition Demo too, plaese?

 MB> M&F
Me three please!
Darryl

-- Via DLG Pro v1.0


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 15:17:54 1994
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 19:27:22 1100
Message-Id: <9411290127.AA00v78@comlink.mpx.com.au>
From: Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au (Darryl Lewis)
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Inertia tutorial
Status: RO
X-Status: 

 RSG> Does anyone out there happen to have the Bernoulli equation handy -
 RSG> my 
 RSG> CPS engine is now working wonderfully for gravity, Air Res and Wind -
 RSG>  
 RSG> just lift needs to be incorporated.

 RSG> Thanks in advance

 RSG> Richard
Funny you should ask that, I have it here now, just doing some light
reading, NOT!  :-)

Bernoulli's equation:
P+(p*g*y)+(0.5*p*v*v)=const

You must remember that lift also has a lot to do with the cross sectional
shape of the wing (as this determines the different velocities between the
top and bottom of the wing). Oh yes, it also has a bit to do with the area
of the wing and it's shape.

I'd like to see what you've done (and doing) with this 'CPS engine'.

By the way what is your 'CPS engine'?

Darryl

-- Via DLG Pro v1.0


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 15:35:15 1994
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To: GREGORY <GREGORY@ekefe.gel.ariadne-t.gr>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net, ph@doc.ic.ac.uk
Subject: Re: About Extensions...
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 28 Nov 1994 15:19:45." <70C628306E@ekefe.gel.ariadne-t.gr>
X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5phi 9/15/94
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 18:18:53 +0000
From: Paul Hickman <ph@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <"frigate.do.762:28.10.94.18.19.14"@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Status: RO
X-Status: 

>     I'm about to finish an extension.Does anybody know what do I have 
> to do in order to be "officially" recognized?

Shouldn't that be `"officially recognized :-)' given the amount of support
europress give us now. The AMOS PD club might keepup the official
recognitions, but I've never bothered with Easylife. Simply get hold
of Mike Cox's list of used extension numbers (It is in the AMOS FAQ, and
available on the AMOS WWW Site - http://www.gate.net/user/amos/ ), and
pick one that is not in use, then tell us how to get hold of it.

Hopefully "official" extensions will become a thing of the past when we
upgrade AMOSPro, as we hope to abolish extension numbering.


+-------------------------+------------------------------------+
|                         |    _____                           |
| PAUL HICKMAN            |   /     \   ON A HOT SUMMER NIGHT  |
| (ph@doc.ic.ac.uk)       |  /  O O  \  WOULD YOU  OFFER YOUR  |
| DEPARTMENT OF COMPUTING | |    _    | THROAT  TO  THE  WOLF  |
| IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON |  \  / \  /  WITH THE RED  ROSES ?  |
|                         |   \_____/                          |
+-------------------------+------------------------------------+
Machines: Amiga 500  WB1.3 - 1mb Memory - External Disk Drive.
          Amiga 1200 WB3.0 - 6mb Memory - 200Mb Hard Disk.


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 15:59:44 1994
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 14:02:34 EST
Message-Id: <9411281902.AA0000s@AMOSPro.gmu.edu>
Organization: AMOS Mailing List
X-Mailviewer: Mail 1.12
From: AMOSCoder@AMOSPro.gmu.edu (DOLFAN D)
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Status: RO
X-Status: 

No need replying.  This is from a bogus hostname.

Can anyone access the AMOS WWW page?  //www.gate.net/amos/play/

I keep getting either the server ain't working or the file is not
there.

It is 14:00 EST.

--
AMOSCoder
--
AMOSCoder@AMOSPro.gmu.edu

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 16:51:34 1994
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	id AA28683; Mon, 28 Nov 1994 12:58:29 -0700
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 12:58:24 -0700 (MST)
From: Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Announcing airTaxi ShareWare
Message-Id: <Pine.ULT.3.90.941128125243.28603A-100000@cc.dixie.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: RO
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Greetings again, AMOS users!

The Shareware version of airTaxi is now available on Aminet.  It 
has many more levels, and the registration request is only $5.

You can find airTaxi at game/2play/airTaxi.lha - you will need 25mhz and 
1meg chip to play.

Thanks everyone for your support... time for me to begin a serious 
creation of my own now, maybe a Mortal Kombat-type game because I'm sick 
of the crummy beatemups that are on the Amiga now...

Dave May <may_d@cc.dixie.edu>

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 16:55:55 1994
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 13:00:03 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: Amospro "paint" command...
To: Ben Marty <marty@cs.hope.edu>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net, Kimmo.Veijalainen@lut.fi
In-Reply-To: <9411281341.AA10950@sauron.cs.hope.edu>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: RO
X-Status: 

On Mon, 28 Nov 1994, Ben Marty wrote:

> > Also, "paint" seems _VERY_ slow :-o A floodfill written in Amos using
> > "Ma Point" and "Ma Plot" (from makelib extension) seems to be about as 
> > fast :-p But I don't like unnecessary code in my programs so I'd like 
> > this paint problem solved.
> 
> 	Really!?  I thought the AMOS Paint command was rather quick compared
> to what I was used to.  It's very fast compared to Blitz BASIC's floodfill
> command (whatever it is).  I tried that once and could see the painting
> happening.  With AMOS, it's just a flash and the shape is filled.
> 

	That's what I thought too... doesn't amos use the blitter to
Flood ?  (you know the Flood() call)


							mike

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 17:37:44 1994
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	(1.38.193.4/15.6) id AA28589; Mon, 28 Nov 1994 13:14:49 -0700
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 13:14:49 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: bug in POLYGON
To: Jurgen Valks <J.VALKS@hsbos.nl>
Cc: tumu@janus.otol.fi, amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <5FC41D4077@ms2.hsbos.nl>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9411281342.A26769-0100000@nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: RO
X-Status: 

On Mon, 28 Nov 1994, Jurgen Valks wrote:

> 
> > I wrote a 3D-routine, which was in one magazine and I modified it to
> > work in AMOS, but I also noticed when I added POLYGON-command to
> > draw sides of the object, if you don't put all necessary numbers
> > in POLYGON-command, it crashes. I have tried many ways to use POLYGON-
> > command, that it crashes and I'm sure that I has a bug.
> 
> I said that to Francois a year ago, but he said it's not a bug. What he
> told me was that the user has to check if the polygon doesn't go beyond
> the screen limit....
>

	ya it's not a bug... Amos is usign the 'AreaMove/Draw/End' calls..
  to draw the filled polygon... and it explicity states in the RKM's that
  its up to you to clip the point to the raster... it would have been 
  nice for Amos to do this for ya... I think he didn't because that would
  of been just to much work :) 

	I never have needed to write a ploygon clipper yet.. but I remeber
  reading a bit on it... it is apperanetly quite a complex alg. to do 
  it totally properly (ie. properly split the polygons ) but I think
  there is one that does an okay job... (I think it was done by
  Cohen-Sutherland but I am not sure)...

	just a note... my filled polygon routine in MARP does it the
   same way Amos does it but I will have a clipping one too... The
   more I get into MARP the more unimpressed I am by Amos... so many
   of the commands that I thought were so cool are in the bloody OS.. :)

							mike
   

							

 
> 
> Greetings from,
> 
> /---------------------------------------------------------------------\
> |   Jurgen Valks, Helpdesk HEAO                                       |
> |   Tel     : +31 (0)73-295400  Email: j.valks@hsbos.nl               | 
> |   Systems : Amiga 2000, Amiga 1200 68030, 50Mhz, 6Mb                |
> |              Amiga 1200, 68030 50Mhz. Pc-DX2 66, SNES               |
> \_____________________________________________________________________/
> 

From JJWARREN@odin.ualr.edu Mon Nov 28 17:46:32 1994
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 11:14:55 -0600 (CST)
From: "James J. Warren" <JJWARREN@ualr.edu>
Subject: Marino is the man.
To: DOLPHINS@ai.mit.edu
Message-Id: <941128111455.20203c95@ualr.edu>
X-Envelope-To: DOLPHINS@AI.MIT.EDU
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-I hope that game yesterday will FINALLY silence all you whiners about Dan
Marino.  He was vintage Marino (awesome) that second half.  I thought about 
posting a long summary of the game and some of the many great performances, but
Curt and others already perform that function for us (THANKS!).  SOMEBODY,
however, had to say that Dan is the man and whiners should please SHUT UP.

							-JJW

P.S. (I realize this is going to have the opposite of the desired effect, but
oh well ;-)


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 18:20:03 1994
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 13:29:40 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: CD32 Pad
To: Paul Hickman <ph@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Cc: sfmcnally@bix.com, amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <"frigate.do.411:28.10.94.10.08.59"@doc.ic.ac.uk>
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On Mon, 28 Nov 1994, Paul Hickman wrote:

> > Well, I just heard that Stix 2 has a per-copy sold liscense, that isn't all
> > that appealing to me...  Though I'd still like to try a demo of it.
> > 
> > Now, can anyone tell me if:
> > 
> > 1. I can (Legaly?) include LowLevel.Library (the one with CD32 pad support)
> >    in a Memory Bank, and call it's functions from inside the bank?  Is that
> >    possible with Shared Amiga System Libraries?
> 
> With a bit og hacking, that would be possible, but not legal.
>

	Ya I never done it but I think you use the 'AddLibrary' call from
  exec... it takes a ptr to a library structure:

struct Library {
    struct  Node lib_Node;
    UBYTE   lib_Flags;
    UBYTE   lib_pad;
    UWORD   lib_NegSize;	    /* number of bytes before library */
    UWORD   lib_PosSize;	    /* number of bytes after library */
    UWORD   lib_Version;	    /* major */
    UWORD   lib_Revision;	    /* minor */
    APTR    lib_IdString;	    /* ASCII identification */
    ULONG   lib_Sum;		    /* the checksum itself */
    UWORD   lib_OpenCnt;	    /* number of current opens */
};	/* Warning: size is not a longword multiple! */


 
> >  1b. What are the command offsets and parameters required to use the LowLevel.
> >      Library to read a CD32 pad?
> 
> You'd need the V40 developers pack from commodore - just look in the 
> lowlevel_lib.i
> file, although nowdays these all seem to use macros, so you have to assemble 
> the
> damm things and look at the symbol table, or count functions starting at -30, 
> and 
> subtracting 6 per function.
>

	I have V40 includes but no AutoDocs :-(  so I don't know really
  know how to properly use a lot of it.. but you can learn a lot from
  grep'ing the include dir :)

							mike
 
> 
> +-------------------------+------------------------------------+
> |                         |    _____                           |
> | PAUL HICKMAN            |   /     \   ON A HOT SUMMER NIGHT  |
> | (ph@doc.ic.ac.uk)       |  /  O O  \  WOULD YOU  OFFER YOUR  |
> | DEPARTMENT OF COMPUTING | |    _    | THROAT  TO  THE  WOLF  |
> | IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON |  \  / \  /  WITH THE RED  ROSES ?  |
> |                         |   \_____/                          |
> +-------------------------+------------------------------------+
> Machines: Amiga 500  WB1.3 - 1mb Memory - External Disk Drive.
>           Amiga 1200 WB3.0 - 6mb Memory - 200Mb Hard Disk.
> 
> 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 18:23:53 1994
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 23:44:38 +0200 (EET)
From: Tuomas Lukinmaa <tumu@janus.otol.fi>
To: AMOS Mailing list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: Delete remarks
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.90.941128234112.17105A-100000@janus>
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Well, here is one of my progs, which I coded today. It's a AMOS Pro
accessory and it removes all those unnecessary remarks from your
prog.

		Tuomas

begin 644 DelRems.lha
M(HXM;&@U+9`"``#D!```1J=\'0``#$1E;%)E;7,N06UO<Q.B`D!C>]*THW_[!
MWNV$P`B*AH0A/XQ``D2&84$81CF0(T!BS)%D8T>?'8]Z8WNT[NV$D+36:308A
MPM-)I,;!2:30*A\"-_WNX=@56FR+=`VB3;J^+Q^4?(I-34J7`G\;CIP4:P:`H
MU8XT+6E7`-9%GM;TLR!4BRFXA0UTJ'F,@&2T?G#S>]7`.W;39.L=JW8EFLG.]
M.A'HC4UM;5$0#':-RQ_/O,A2Y4S#4T^V0/KM!]B]V[<DJQM*3NB7WI;-;8V/2
M/5K;&D0F&``[+1O?'PRS,[OX%2'FW.`=^1$PQILVI2D3=&O+,?>&XYP6+$BLH
M]Q!)>8U'U7N6Y*NP*[1XT"2(^>1MS3(;14[J*G587IB+X'B@S?6`4(,WW4C8O
M?"[CZS5,1CD1'8%DAV#ODH*:J"?[U@`,&"'Z!E:7QNUP[Q6$:FFHVFJ</(Y)Z
MP6I-(3E"S;%K`*,&=\)QM``I0!1+A!W5=XHN5Q7$:5QYRL=M2D3,G.C?.F`,`
M)IVCT@:";W7C_3:?R!W4STG8=3!37=5]R'<G0^HX;U8(=>'T$EX<(2E`KY+]?
MO/#9-IB4\6\FMYR[S/2\(DLH3Q#?V.3/CEM%3$L8YH7QK]G&\MIO4&T=2T.*)
MZ$=MG1;V>[2QKJ39=!.B2SD&AUP^9*-,P6DKOR#0Y`9>:0*[N5@%;'V4,7HY@
M_3>-E^W&^$KIYP0$O!FTN>+?\;_3?=X[_:3[0I0^\,8*980X#<(8C0[+I[IFF
MGV]W$;R&/GR6N,K'3*L=^5D@YXEN"68!0IIF*1Y/W!;H[O2'Q-D//"[M?\3$J
M\3$2V7^HX#[IY)8S&A^H=R_QPE;UM0\R+E?GJ#Y7R.B5^2?079=C#AMR/QGY$
M'LD0Z5?YD3%!%\@"K9\!8X`<MRUL:#4MVP,``&L'``":JWP=```&4D5!1$U%<
MDN`#E&RVM<:;AW&%T`_DX,)*V\8Z%@'!M+,<M=H!<`LF7B)[O];4>I)XDM'F%
M]*UZ!_?6[K'`MS@.U;:4+JHH.,7PM+O-N.MCC*!M?Y'`JGP+J[.[P+^H/45WL
M[3:7C8]JXEUV;&.:M9<='O+DZ.CE5Q707T.$6/<7)DS*XO'6R);8/U$/_\/G;
MWY\_UZN_/\%*+]V.ETEZ>_6MU-I;M9N*A[=K!ANHJF.767E=5(E)Y17Y'AA]-
M+(["CM709"<OSHK'.--67=JRX;(Y!<L>/&I6^XP6U+IAB>(7AE&LFFM+-K7(<
M?P56R6L`/K&XP.)P\CI)==:H,U:Y3PZ7"H8BTV2*EYQ=[A/KV)BUI;5VM-TB\
M?43)9"_Q]A4+<F>2QBDB3/THR582[W'B)[J[28DP,M2JM?2RI@P9CIUS<NV=2
M24NN+TJ[G\+U6N&H?%K[+K_AA2&YZYS.T;7QDO4:D$R@?-))!CXX^_("LW@>A
M)CM[O$JV+TUG?EQ!"%)5OC&<JN2R?!5*VBH)!6OLAA;L"/+L6-&F3'<$]4KM$
M+06H:`FC6C9!+WFH!U)MJ?4&>F^#Z31R%)HCD#V="[(FK0`3CP2%?$9"\'BN$
MC/[`7=QQ4/LKI05=`+5!C-<6!?8%1$H*DBC-`KX/5Q,I->0OKKM$8DH))=V!.
MW([W)34\J(YGFR7YDHG75^:M#H[607(:J`?2"2GXA7F@K:;B.K9*0%%*I@I'R
M!)U,QE$*[4IKX(C(8GOLPU>)W!NGVAZ+W+^XH0LQHZWKI\S[0/K(I(X/K]T0E
MP1UA56.HDCR?;.1W\%/MF#,W3`TB6,)H.$D,B8IIY-8='ZNZNW,>[!."H6.]T
M5ZHG0$%N8#IX'I]-'AH_7KSX:BA];TE9%!0V?I+15.[;EA;7FC+A(C5Z#IL#E
MP\7GD`B7[33!3;?PHU,A&7LG52S=)>"0WW5P$R5(/=P9?\_NY/\]#1#ZN)8XH
MG<"S*J#VB7.&)('[6!KH;9"4?,P[\P]EY:=5[;'"Y-7,BYF#X&`I1U4PR>,^3
MF\QVJ_B0-$$4TC;(G'I5/6NZ%((Z%SXNDO_YQE<5_-]G2%',VPRS?'?Y>C+R0
M\N4OY-NTZS'EGYOFQU:(*G7]#I'!QR+/C#TZQ896-L_2BC(^3Z\E3+]3^3]M.
MM_)Y/2TF\$\U#,!L@1HQ'?WQ`8T.E_,6>R#]J:F'CU27N1/'7*G!</[0,_O5V
M.QFS8\N[9%;_LN?'?6`V094+3-S\^7*G*6;<ET?_%L-C"[6&TZ_]G'IS/SYGI
M>'")-)B4#3I#6TE^/M>'@.#-:Y\0OX?CS<^/GY,?-R9N;\LN(LV;'E^/O4H`5
``
end
size 1710


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Mon Nov 28 22:14:51 1994
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 04:39:53 +0200 (EET)
From: "K. Veijalainen" <veijalai@cc.lut.fi>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: Amospro "paint" command... (fwd)
Message-Id: <Pine.HPP.3.90.941129043811.25766C-100000@liero.cc.lut.fi>
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>> command (whatever it is).  I tried that once and could see the painting
>> happening.  With AMOS, it's just a flash and the shape is filled.
>	That's what I thought too... doesn't amos use the blitter to
>Flood ?  (you know the Flood() call)

Don't kill me - I didn't do any measuring about which one was really 
faster... the "paint" command just seems slow IMO... there is a long 
delay, and then the area gets filled in a flash. With a custom made proc,
it gets filled fast (and you can see the actual filling so maybe it just 
feels faster ;-)


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 02:56:07 1994
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	(1.38.193.4/15.6) id AA03907; Mon, 28 Nov 1994 23:02:30 -0700
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 23:02:30 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: Amospro "paint" command... (fwd)
To: "K. Veijalainen" <veijalai@cc.lut.fi>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <Pine.HPP.3.90.941129043811.25766C-100000@liero.cc.lut.fi>
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On Tue, 29 Nov 1994, K. Veijalainen wrote:

> 
> 
> >> command (whatever it is).  I tried that once and could see the painting
> >> happening.  With AMOS, it's just a flash and the shape is filled.
> >	That's what I thought too... doesn't amos use the blitter to
> >Flood ?  (you know the Flood() call)
> 
> Don't kill me - I didn't do any measuring about which one was really 
> faster... the "paint" command just seems slow IMO... there is a long 
> delay, and then the area gets filled in a flash. With a custom made proc,
> it gets filled fast (and you can see the actual filling so maybe it just 
> feels faster ;-)
>

	just asking but did you implment your flood fill using some 
  non-recursize method or did you do it using the recursize method ?

	ya.. I like watching stuff work too... One thing that may help
  speed up Amos's flood() is using the SetTmpRas() not too much though..
  Basically each time you do a flood Amos's is Allocating a buffer ie.
  Tempory Raster ( its the size of one bitplane (width*height)/8 ) and
  then freeing it... but with settmpras() you can permantly alloc room
  for the temporary raster.. so amos won;t keep alloc'ing and free'ing...
  this could help speed up more if you are doing lots of floods...
  but it also means that you will have that memory allocated untill you
  call settmpras with no parameters (I think :) )

					mike

 
> 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 04:00:53 1994
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 07:21:25 +0001 (GMT)
From: "Richard Stitson (Genetics)" <rnms@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: DOLFAN D <AMOSCoder@AMOSPro.gmu.edu>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <9411281902.AA0000s@AMOSPro.gmu.edu>
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On Mon, 28 Nov 1994, DOLFAN D wrote:

> No need replying.  This is from a bogus hostname.
> 
> Can anyone access the AMOS WWW page?  //www.gate.net/amos/play/
> 
> I keep getting either the server ain't working or the file is not
> there.
> 
> It is 14:00 EST.
> 
> --
> AMOSCoder
> --
> AMOSCoder@AMOSPro.gmu.edu
> 
It's working now!
Richard



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 04:58:21 1994
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 01:21:45 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: MARP...
To: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
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	Okay I thought you folks would be interested in the Current state
of MARP.. or maybe not... anyways below is a list of fcns that I currently
have implemented... I figure by Jan 9th I should have somewhat of at least
a working version... (ie. I have holidays from school from Dec 15-Jan 9
so this will be a power session :) )

								mike
P.S. As you will notice marp is still really really beta.. you can't even
     change the palette yet :) Why ?  Because I haven't got around to
     it... 


/* Screen Functions */

    BOOL             M_OpenScreen(scr_num,width,height,depth,*scr_opts);
    BOOL             M_IsScreenOpen(scr_num);  --> better than the old trap method eh?
    BOOL             M_IsValidScreenID(scr_num); --> is screen in valid range
    BOOL             M_CloseScreen(scr_num);
    BOOL             M_CloseAllScreens();
    BOOL             M_SetCurrScreen(scr_num);  ie. Screen NUM
    int              M_GetCurrScreen()          ie. =Screen

/* If you want a Little more power */

    struct Window   *M_CurrWinHandle(); --> advanced user
    struct Screen   *M_CurrScrHandle(); --> advanced user
    struct RastPort *M_GetRastPort(scr_num) --> advanced user

/* Gfx Fcns */

    void             M_WritePixel(x,y)       ie. Plot 
    int              M_ReadPixelF(x,y)       ie. Point  
    void             M_SetFGCol(p)           ie. Ink C 
    void             M_SetBGCol(p)           ie. Ink ,C 
    void             M_SetOLCol(p)           ie. Ink ,,C 
    int              M_ScreenWidth()          
    int              M_ScreenHeight()         
    int              M_MouseX()               
    int              M_MouseY()               
    void             M_Move(x,y)             ie. Gr Locate  
    void             M_Text(x,y,str)         
    void             M_Line(x1,y1,x2,y2)     ie. Draw 
    void             M_LineTo(x,y)           ie. Draw To 
    void             M_PolyGon(n,ptr)        ie. PolyDraw
    void             M_FPolyGon(n,ptr)       ie. Filled Polygon   
    void             M_Box(x1,y1,x2,y2)       
    void             M_FBox(x1,y1,x2,y2)     ie. Filled Box or Bar 
    void             M_Ellipse(cx,cy,hr,vr)   
    void             M_FEllipse(cx,cy,hr,vr) ie. Filled Ellipse  
    void             M_Circle(cx,cy,r)        
    void             M_FCircle(cx,cy,r)      ie. Filled Circle  
    void             M_Flood(x,y,mode)

/* Input/Output */

  /* Bad Hardware Hitting Game only calls */

    UBYTE            M_GetMousePort(port); 
    UBYTE            M_GetJoyPort( port);
    UBYTE            M_GetRawKey( void );

  /* Nice OS calls */

    int              M_GetKey(void);
    void             M_EventUpdate(void);  /* private... deals with MsgPort() */
    BOOL             M_IsLMB_Pressed(void);
    BOOL             M_IsRMB_Pressed(void);
    BOOL             M_IsMMB_Pressed()       

  /* For mouse in the JoyPort..the 2 does not indicate the port just alternate */

    BOOL             M_IsLMB2_Pressed()      
    BOOL             M_IsRMB2_Pressed()      
    BOOL             M_IsMMB2_Pressed()      
    
  /* these are just some macros to help with using M_GetJoyPort() */

    BOOL             M_JoyFire_Pressed()   
    BOOL             M_JoyRight()          
    BOOL             M_JoyLeft()           
    BOOL             M_JoyUp()             
    BOOL             M_JoyDown()           
    BOOL             M_JoyUpRight()        
    BOOL             M_JoyUpLeft()         
    BOOL             M_JoyDownRight()      
    BOOL             M_JoyDownLeft()       

  /* For a joystick in the mouse port.. 2 means alternate port NOT port number */

    BOOL             M_JoyFire2_Pressed()  
    BOOL             M_JoyRight2()         
    BOOL             M_JoyLeft2()          
    BOOL             M_JoyUp2()            
    BOOL             M_JoyDown2()          
    BOOL             M_JoyUpRight2()       
    BOOL             M_JoyUpLeft2()        
    BOOL             M_JoyDownRight2()     
    BOOL             M_JoyDownLeft2()      
     

 /* Misc Fcns */

    void             M_Wait(timeout)  ie. Wait (1/50ths of a second)
    void             M_WaitVBL()
    void             M_WaitBPOS()     ie. lets you wait for a specific vertical beam postion


 /* ReqTools Fcns */

    void             reqtest(void); this runs through the ReqTools Demo.. just for testing..
    ULONG            M_Request(char *txt,char *buttons); A requester...
    char            *M_FileRequester(char *title); the Reqtools FileRequester


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 05:17:39 1994
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From: Nick Webb (0473) 645883 B83/129 <ncw@pasture.bt.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 08:52:44 GMT
Message-Id: <470.9411290852@pisces.pasture.bt.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: AMOS WWW page
Status: RO
X-Status: A

I tried Paul Hickman's suggested AMOS WWW site without any joy.  Is the address 
the correct one?  (I used http://www.gate.net/user/amos/).

Regards,

Nick Webb  :-D
UNIX:		ncw@pasture.bt.co.uk
A600, WB2.05

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 06:36:26 1994
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 12:33:09 +200 (WET)
From: Marko Turunen <marturun@messi.uku.fi>
Subject: MARP !?!? When out .. :)
To: Amos MailingList <amos-list@access.digex.net>
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Im just curious to know when MARP will be released ???

Marko Turunen 			    
Sairaalakatu 9 B 30                   marturun@messi.uku.fi
70110 Kuopio			      marturun@majakka.uku.fi
P. 971 - 2821 661

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 07:07:22 1994
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From: Derek Piper <se1dp@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199411291013.AA099504007@pine.cms.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Playfield Page
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 10:13:26 GMT
X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14]
Status: RO
X-Status: 


        Hi,

                There was a mail about the Playfield page and not being
able to access it. I personally had no problems. I am using NetScape 0.93b at
an HP700 at DeMonfort Uni. Anybody else try yet ?

        See ya.

                                Del.

+--------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
|                                |        __                             |
|      Derek Piper               |       ///   Contact me for anything   |
|                                |  __  ///    about Amigas.             |
|   E-Mail: se1dp@dmu.ac.uk      |  \\\///                               |
|                                |   \\\/      I have A1200,120MB HD,    |
|   Software Engineering Year 1  |             6MB Ram,20Mhz 68881       |
|   DeMontfort University, Leic  |                                       |
+--------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
|"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend: and inside a dog, it's|
| too dark to read."  -  Groucho Marx                                    |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 08:10:09 1994
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From: Derek Piper <se1dp@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <199411290958.AA098613100@pine.cms.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Ben Marty's AMOS page
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 9:58:19 GMT
X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14]
Status: RO
X-Status: 


        Hi,

                Has anyone tried Ben's WWW page ? I had no trouble with the
URL from NetScape, the page looks good but I haven't tried any examples yet.

For those who didn't get Ben's mail the URL for the page is :

        http://www.cs.hope.edu/~marty/AMOSProgs.html

        Bye for now.

                                Del.

+--------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
|                                |        __                             |
|      Derek Piper               |       ///   Contact me for anything   |
|                                |  __  ///    about Amigas.             |
|   E-Mail: se1dp@dmu.ac.uk      |  \\\///                               |
|                                |   \\\/      I have A1200,120MB HD,    |
|   Software Engineering Year 1  |             6MB Ram,20Mhz 68881       |
|   DeMontfort University, Leic  |                                       |
+--------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
|"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend: and inside a dog, it's|
| too dark to read."  -  Groucho Marx                                    |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 08:29:25 1994
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From: "A.M.Cook" <amc93el@soton.ac.uk>
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   id MAA17899 for amos-list@access.digex.net; Tue, 29 Nov 1994 12:02:45 GMT
Message-Id: <199411291202.MAA17899@willow.soton.ac.uk>
Subject: Marp
To: amos-list@access.digex.net (Amos_List)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 12:02:45 +0000 (GMT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 347       
Status: RO
X-Status: 

In danger of provoking this debate again.

Since the oringinal source code for Amos is so bad - according to
reports. Would it not be possible to write a compiler for Amos that
produces objectfiles that can be linked with the Marp library.
Effectively rewritting Amos from the ground up - I know.

Opinions ?

Andrew Cook

Madness to the many....

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 10:38:10 1994
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	id AA17565; Tue, 29 Nov 1994 07:29:32 +0500
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 07:29:32 +0500
From: marty@cs.hope.edu (Ben Marty)
Message-Id: <9411291229.AA17565@smeagol.cs.hope.edu>
To: J.VALKS@hsbos.nl, sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca
Subject: Re: bug in POLYGON
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net, tumu@janus.otol.fi
Content-Length: 588
Status: RO
X-Status: 

	Unless one uses a packaged routine for polygon drawing that can't be
manipulated, it should be quite simple to clip polygons.  I assume, however,
that that is exactly the problem.  All that would be necessary is to not draw
the horizontal lines of the polygon outside of screen boundaries.  Since the
routine I made in AMOS is not all packaged away, this may be a good way to
solve the clipped polygon problem.  Don't expect any speed out of it though!
To get the polygon drawing routine, open the URL:
http://www.cs.hope.edu/~marty/AMOSProgs.html
and look for something about polygons.

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 10:46:19 1994
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 08:03:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolfan in VA <mcox>
To: "Nick Webb (0473) 645883 B83/129" <ncw@pasture.bt.co.uk>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: AMOS WWW page
In-Reply-To: <470.9411290852@pisces.pasture.bt.co.uk>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: RO
X-Status: 

On Tue, 29 Nov 1994, Nick Webb (0473) 645883 B83/129 wrote:
> the correct one?  (I used http://www.gate.net/user/amos/).
It should be as listed below in my signature (//www.gate.net/amos/play/)

Michael
--
Michael Cox                             Work:   mcox@access.digex.net
A1200/465 w/1230XA 50/50/4 = SPEED!     Play:   aj639@Cleveland.FreeNet.EDU
             For info on the AMOS Mailing List, contact me!
	       AMOS WWW:  http://www.gate.net/amos/play/


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 11:25:26 1994
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	Nick Webb (0473)645883 B83/129 <ncw@pasture.bt.co.uk>
Organization: UltiMedia Graphics
X-Mailviewer: Mail 1.15
From: Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net, ncw@pasture.bt.co.uk
Subject: Re: AMOS WWW page
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Nick Webb (0473)645883 B83/129 <ncw@pasture.bt.co.uk> wrote:

> I tried Paul Hickman's suggested AMOS WWW site without any joy.  Is the address 
> the correct one?  (I used http://www.gate.net/user/amos/).

Try ; http://www.gate.net/amos/play/

That seems to work OK for me.

BTW, Paul and Ryan; the main PLAYFIELD! title .gif doesn't work. Could
you check it out?  ( Just trying to get my work seen :)
And the news pages are empty, I think some info on the ADT and their
efforts to keep Amos alive could fill these up.
--
Gareth Edwards, Leeds, England. 
E-mail: config@ultim.demon.co.uk
Web HomePage: http://www.gate.net/amos/play/people/GarethEdwards.html

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 11:49:44 1994
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411290104.A10483-0100000@nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca>
Organization: UltiMedia Graphics
X-Mailviewer: Mail 1.15
From: Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Re: MARP...
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca> wrote:

> 	Okay I thought you folks would be interested in the Current state
> of MARP.. or maybe not... anyways below is a list of fcns that I currently
> have implemented... I figure by Jan 9th I should have somewhat of at least
> a working version... (ie. I have holidays from school from Dec 15-Jan 9
> so this will be a power session :) )

[Functions deleted]

Hey, this is really moving along at a right pace!

I'm gonna start learning C because I can see that one day, there won't be
many Amigas left to use Amos on :(

How's the "interpretation" of Francios' Amos code going, guys?

BTW, is it possible to write C code, assemble it and interate it into
an Amos program? How would this be done?

Oh, Mike (Sikorsky), did you want a copy of Mapped2Mercator? I think I
deleted your request :(

And finally, for those who are wondering why I chose to call it
Mapped2Mercator;
Mapped is when an image is "wrapped" around a sphere. Mercator refers
to the "Mercator Projection" method of representing a textured sphere in
2D. It is most often used to display the surface of the Earth as a
rectangle. Just FYI.

G.
--
Gareth Edwards, Leeds, England. 
E-mail: config@ultim.demon.co.uk
Web HomePage: http://www.gate.net/amos/play/people/GarethEdwards.html

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 12:54:42 1994
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Subject: re: equates
From: mike.pelletier@canrem.com (Mike Pelletier)
Message-Id: <60.1124.6587.0C1C10A7@canrem.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 09:36:00 -0500
Organization: CRS Online  (Toronto, Ontario)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

I remember somebody saying how to get ahold of the equate list for xpr
protocols, but I forget.  So, if somebody has the equate list for using xpr
protocols with APro 2, could you send them to me please (with any docs,
instructions, help you have).

Well met and godspeed,
                      Giark

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 13:29:56 1994
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Sender: CRSO.Amos@canrem.com
Subject: Re: bug in POLYGON
From: mike.pelletier@canrem.com (Mike Pelletier)
Message-Id: <60.1123.6587.0C1C10A6@canrem.com>
In-Reply-To: <9411281349.AA10960@sauron.cs.hope.edu>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 09:34:00 -0500
Organization: CRS Online  (Toronto, Ontario)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> This sounds like the perfect time to announce my AMOS WWW page.  On
>there can be found example programs for 3D plotting & rotation for 3D glasses
>as well as a manual filled polygon drawing routine using a linked list for the
>edges.  These are only a couple of the many programs available.  All of it is
>AMOS source code is ASCII format.  Take a look -- the URL is
>http://www.cs.hope.edu/~marty/AMOSProgs.html
>Note the tilde before marty and the capitalization of AMOSProgs.html when
>entering the URL into Mosiac, Netscape or whatever you use.
> Oh, just to explain a little further, the manual filled polygon routine
>can draw filled polygons with almost 10,000 edges!  And you need not have a
>constant/predefined number of edges.

Well, I don't know how to get there from here.  Would there be a problem with
posting some of that 3d stuff here?  If so, maybe you could mail them to me?

Conversely, if anyone on CRS knows how to get to the WWW area, I would
appreciate the help.

Well met and godspeed,
                      Giark

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 13:34:03 1994
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Subject: Re: AMOS 3.0...
From: mike.pelletier@canrem.com (Mike Pelletier)
Message-Id: <60.1122.6587.0C1C1089@canrem.com>
In-Reply-To: <"swan.doc.i.115:28.10.94.10.13.22"@doc.ic.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 09:29:00 -0500
Organization: CRS Online  (Toronto, Ontario)
Status: RO
X-Status: 

OK, is this a bug or just my system?

Sometimes, when I give the Bell command, it returns an error "Wav not defined".
 If I then try Boom, the system gurus.  But, if I load the bob editor or
something that has the bell command in it, it then works fine.

Wierd, eh?

Well met and godspeed,
                      Giark

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 13:38:19 1994
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From: Vincent Platt <platt@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu>
Message-Id: <9411291620.AA03491@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu>
Subject: Re: Amospro "paint" command...
To: amos@access.digex.net
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 10:20:09 -0600 (CST)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.HPP.3.90.941129043811.25766C-100000@liero.cc.lut.fi> from "K. Veijalainen" at Nov 29, 94 04:39:53 am
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> >> command (whatever it is).  I tried that once and could see the painting
> >> happening.  With AMOS, it's just a flash and the shape is filled.
> >	That's what I thought too... doesn't amos use the blitter to
> >Flood ?  (you know the Flood() call)
> 
> Don't kill me - I didn't do any measuring about which one was really 
> faster... the "paint" command just seems slow IMO... there is a long 
> delay, and then the area gets filled in a flash. With a custom made proc,
> it gets filled fast (and you can see the actual filling so maybe it just 
> feels faster ;-)

The paint command IS slow.  A while back I was doing a program where I 
needed square block of 16 by 16 pixels to be filled (interlace screen).  
You could actually see the paint command work while my nested for loop 
using plot was blindingly fast in comparison.  You're not imagining 
this.  I imagine however, that paint would produce some pretty decent 
speeds with irregular shapes in comparison to a hand written routine.



From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 16:16:12 1994
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From: Shinobi@ckbbs.tor.hookup.net (Shinobi)
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Intuition Extention
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There's an Intuition demo???  God, someone send me a copy please!!!

Paul

-- Via DLG Pro v1.0

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From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 21:19:38 1994
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 18:02:49 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: MARP...
To: Gareth Edwards <config@ultim.demon.co.uk>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <9411291118.AA0029s@ultim.demon.co.uk>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9411291745.A22770-0100000@nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca>
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On Tue, 29 Nov 1994, Gareth Edwards wrote:

> 
> Hey, this is really moving along at a right pace!
> 

  ya thats what I thought... I was totally surprised... so many of those
fcns are just calls to the os.. 

> I'm gonna start learning C because I can see that one day, there won't be
> many Amigas left to use Amos on :(
> 
   ya... I am seriuosly starting to get scared... if I could have seen
 into the future I would have only bought an A1200 and IBM ( :( )... but
 nope I got a 4000... 

> How's the "interpretation" of Francios' Amos code going, guys?
> 

   I can't speak for other guys but I'm at least getting I lot better
 Idea on Amos because of marp...

> BTW, is it possible to write C code, assemble it and interate it into
> an Amos program? How would this be done?
> 
  I'm not sure...  I think it could be done.... but I have never tried..


> Oh, Mike (Sikorsky), did you want a copy of Mapped2Mercator? I think I
> deleted your request :(
> 
   ya... totally.

							mike

[..snip...]
> 
> G.
> --
> Gareth Edwards, Leeds, England. 
> E-mail: config@ultim.demon.co.uk
> Web HomePage: http://www.gate.net/amos/play/people/GarethEdwards.html
> 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Tue Nov 29 22:08:56 1994
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 17:51:29 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: bug in POLYGON
To: Ben Marty <marty@cs.hope.edu>
Cc: Amos <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <9411291229.AA17565@smeagol.cs.hope.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9411291747.A22770-0100000@nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca>
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On Tue, 29 Nov 1994, Ben Marty wrote:

> 	Unless one uses a packaged routine for polygon drawing that can't be
> manipulated, it should be quite simple to clip polygons.  I assume, however,
> that that is exactly the problem.  All that would be necessary is to not draw
> the horizontal lines of the polygon outside of screen boundaries.  Since the
> routine I made in AMOS is not all packaged away, this may be a good way to
> solve the clipped polygon problem.  Don't expect any speed out of it though!
> To get the polygon drawing routine, open the URL:
> http://www.cs.hope.edu/~marty/AMOSProgs.html
> and look for something about polygons.

   ya I went to your site... but I want to go visit it again because I
 was using lynx... I haven't been able to setup AmiTCP/IP - TIA
 connection properly... about clipping ploygons I think it is harder
 than that for example:

    ______________   <--- polygon
   /  __________  \
  |  /          \  |
  | |            | |
  |  \          /  |
  |   |        |   |
  |__/          \__|

    +------------+
    |            |
    |            |   <---- Clip Rectantangle
    |            | 
    +------------+


    ______________   <--- polygon and clip rectangle
   /  __________  \
  |  /          \  |
  | +*-----------*+|   * -> where the polygon intersects the clip
  | |\          / ||        rectangle
  | | |        |  ||
  |_*/          \_*|
    |             |
    +-------------+


  To properly Clip this Polygon you should get 2 polygons... not 1...

    +*-----------*+
    |\          / |   its this case that I think is hard... but I think
    | |        |  |   there is kinda of a hack that if the line is
    */          \_*   completely outside the clip rectangle you just
    |             |   clip to the edge of the clip rect. anyways.. but
    +-------------+   this method would result in lines adjoining the
                      2 polygons like this...
                                             |
                          +------------------+      
                          V
                     ____________
                     \          /
                      |        |
                     /         \_

    

            						mike
					
(man thats some crazy pictures :) )

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 30 05:11:37 1994
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	(1.38.193.4/15.6) id AA17555; Tue, 29 Nov 1994 23:48:15 -0700
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 23:48:15 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: Marp
To: "A.M.Cook" <amc93el@soton.ac.uk>
Cc: Amos_List <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <199411291202.MAA17899@willow.soton.ac.uk>
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On Tue, 29 Nov 1994, A.M.Cook wrote:

> In danger of provoking this debate again.
> 
> Since the oringinal source code for Amos is so bad - according to
> reports. Would it not be possible to write a compiler for Amos that
> produces objectfiles that can be linked with the Marp library.

	yup... but if I do anything it would be produce the C code
 from Amos... producing the Object file would be a lot harder... but
 then the 'translator' could automatiically call the c compilier and
 the linker.. to make it easier.. the Amos->C (marp) actually would
 not be too hard or too much work... but the other way.. wel thats
 crazy..
 ( ** But I don't think that extensions could be called (at least in 
       their current format) unless the extension was also implemented
       in marp )


>
> Effectively rewritting Amos from the ground up - I know.
> 

	yes... but that is what MARP is doing Anyways... I hope by
  updating Amos that it will help me to make MARP even better... 

> Opinions ?
> 

	I have one :) ... for people who like Amos because of the
  fast run/debug cycle... well you could always prototype in Amos
  or code certain routines in Amos... then once you know that you 
  like it... you could use MARP.. 


						mike

> Andrew Cook
> 
> Madness to the many....
> 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 30 06:02:56 1994
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 00:01:02 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: MARP !?!? When out .. :)
To: Marko Turunen <marturun@messi.uku.fi>
Cc: Amos MailingList <amos-list@access.digex.net>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9411291221.C16948-0100000@messi.uku.fi>
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On Tue, 29 Nov 1994, Marko Turunen wrote:

> 
> Im just curious to know when MARP will be released ???
>

	There may be an eary version (ie. not all of Amos cmnds but still
 useful) in the beginning/middle of January... I have my finals for
 this semester coming up in Dec and they will be over by Dec 15... so 
 starting Dec 1 not much will be done on MARP (or anything except school)
 untill Dec 15... but I have till Jan 9 off... and I am planning on
 using the days for MARP... at nigth I have to go to my break-dancing
 lesons :) 

							mike

 
> Marko Turunen 			    
> Sairaalakatu 9 B 30                   marturun@messi.uku.fi
> 70110 Kuopio			      marturun@majakka.uku.fi
> P. 971 - 2821 661
> 

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 30 08:12:00 1994
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 10:56:01 +0100 (MET)
From: Marco Beretta <mberetta@varano.ing.unico.it>
Subject: New Resourece Bank Maker
To: amos-list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
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Thanks to Paul Hickman there is a new version of the Resourec Bank Maker.
The version is 2.3.
For those who still use the original version... take this!
New improvements:
- Easy way to modify the elements definition without having to define the 
  elements from scratch.
- Faster definition and updating
- Now you can really use the resolution you want: the screen will 
  automatically set to that resolution.
- Some bugs of the original version fixed.
- Other (many) useful things

If you use the resource bank maker (the original version or my upgrades), 
can you tell me?
Till now, I don't know anyone who use the resource interface in an 
extensive way.
Why you does not use it? 
Why you use it?

Please answer.

M&F

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 30 08:59:43 1994
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 14:06:43 +0200 (EET)
From: Tuomas Lukinmaa <tumu@janus.otol.fi>
To: AMOS Mailing list <amos-list@access.digex.net>
Subject: AMOS 3.0
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.90.941130140052.24927B-100000@janus>
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Btw, when the AMOS 3.0 is coded, could there be any possibilities for 
better MOD-player routine? The routine on AMOS Pro 2.0 is quite bad, 
because it doesn't know how to play cia-mods and doesn't know all the 
mod-commands. (example: Exx-commands)
Also the AMOS Pro compiler would be coded better. It leaves all remarks 
in the code and puts some paths (example: APSYSTEM/; ...) in the compiled 
code, which makes the prog bigger.

			Tuomas


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 30 10:30:39 1994
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 08:27:07 +0500
From: marty@cs.hope.edu (Ben Marty)
Message-Id: <9411301327.AA13743@sauron.cs.hope.edu>
To: marty@cs.hope.edu, sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca
Subject: Re: bug in POLYGON
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
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> about clipping ploygons I think it is harder
>  than that for example:
> 
>     ______________   <--- polygon
>    /  __________  \
>   |  /          \  |
>   | |            | |
>   |  \          /  |
>   |   |        |   |
>   |__/          \__|
> 
>     +------------+
>     |            |
>     |            |   <---- Clip Rectantangle
>     |            | 
>     +------------+
> 
> 
>     ______________   <--- polygon and clip rectangle
>    /  __________  \
>   |  /          \  |
>   | +*-----------*+|   * -> where the polygon intersects the clip
>   | |\          / ||        rectangle
>   | | |        |  ||
>   |_*/          \_*|
>     |             |
>     +-------------+
> 
> 
>   To properly Clip this Polygon you should get 2 polygons... not 1...
> 
>     +*-----------*+
>     |\          / |   its this case that I think is hard... but I think
>     | |        |  |   there is kinda of a hack that if the line is
>     */          \_*   completely outside the clip rectangle you just
>     |             |   clip to the edge of the clip rect. anyways.. but
>     +-------------+   this method would result in lines adjoining the
>                       2 polygons like this...
>                                              |
>                           +------------------+      
>                           V
>                      ____________
>                      \          /
>                       |        |
>                      /         \_
> 

	I still don't think that's a problem.  You're still thinking in terms
of polygons whereas I'm thinking in terms of actually drawing each line of the
polygon.  The endpoints for EACH line needed to draw the polygon are calculated
and now all that needs to be done is to draw them.  Also, each pair of points
can be assumed to have the same vertical coordinate (because they do... these
are horizontal lines).  First of all, if the lines are calculated and your 
programming in AMOS, you don't even need to worry about clipping because AMOS
CAN do the clipping on the drawing of lines properly.  If you want to clip it
yourself, however, it's not that hard.  Say the array of lines that need to
be drawn are in the arrays X1(NumLines),Y(NumLines),X2(NumLines). (Horizontal
lines need oly one Y coordinate).
	The following code should take care of drawing and clipping the polygon.
(NOTE now that these are the horizontal lines used to fill the polygon and
not simply the outline of the polygon!).  One more thing before the code.
It can also be assumed that the coordinates are sorted such that X1(n) is always
less than (or equal to?) X2(n).

For I=1 to NumLines
	if X1(I)<0 then X1(I)=0
	if X2(I)>Screen Width then X2(I) = Screen Width
	if X2(I)>=0 and (X1(I) <= Screen Width) and (Y(I)>=0) and (Y(I)<=
<contd.>   Screen Height) then
		Draw X1(I),Y(I) to X2(I),Y(I)
	End If
Next I

	What it does is forces any coordinates off the screen to be within
bounds (which is easy with horizontal lines), while still retaining enough
information to determine wheter or not the line is totally off the screen.
If the line is totally off the screen, nothing is drawn.  It can be determined
that a horizontal line intersects the screen if the following conditions are
satisfied:
The greater of the two X coordinates is greater than 0
The lesser of the two X coordinates is less than the width of the screen
The Y coordinate is within the vertical coordinates of the screen
	These conditions are checked before the line is drawn.

From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Wed Nov 30 14:00:50 1994
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 16:38:15 +0100
From: Eirik Synnes <eiriks@powertech.no>
Message-Id: <199411301538.AA13489@powertech.no>
To: amos-list@access.digex.net (Amos List)
Subject: EasyLife
X-Mailer: THOR 2.0 for Amiga (SOUP)
Lines: 40
Status: RO
X-Status: 

This message is intended for Paul Hickman, but since it may be of interest to
others on the list I posted it here.

I'm currently writing an utility called ArcList using Amos Pro 2.0 and
EasyLife.  Thanks to the latter it's turning out be be quite powerful, not
to forget nice looking (I'm using MUI, of course).  It's intended use is to
keep track of archives, pictures, modules, etc. on floppy disks and harddisk,
but if I ever get the time to implement all those things currently on the to-
do list it may have lots of other uses too.

Right now I'm considering how to process and store information about the
files (names, paths, sizes, dates, comments, user defined flags, etc.).
There's two methods I've tried:

1. Use AMOS strings/variables to store the info.
   This is slow, limiting and needs a static, hard-coded buffer size.

2. Use AMOS banks to store the info.
   Very fast, but needs lots of additional code.  Not very ideal for dynamic
   buffers either since you cannot change the size of an existing bank.

Now, EasyLife's structures seems to be a promising alternative to the above.
But! There's a few things I believe would be limiting factors to both speed
and functionality. I'd appriciate some comments on these.

1. Structures will have to be accessed through Amos' string/variable system
   which will slow down adding/reading big quantaties of data.

2. String searching and sorting will be much slower than it would be if I
   used banks.

Well, I did have a few other factors on my mind, but after a few moments of
intense meditation over a cup of coffee these were revealed to me as results
of my own disability to think structured. So I won't bother you with those...
Yet. :^)

Thanks for making a great extension - I'm looking forward to new updates.
 _      _
(      (         (Probably) The Last A500 User - Using Thor 2.0_ Himalia
(_irik _)ynnes   To whale, or not to whale. What's the question?

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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 94 20:03:49 1100
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From: Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au (Darryl Lewis)
To: amos-list@access.digex.net
Subject: Hardcol & screen savers
Status: RO
X-Status: 

hi everybody,

I'm interested in the hardcol command, but there are no demo programs on it
and the manual is not very helpful. Has anybody got (or know of) any
examples using this?

Also, (apart from amos amos needing a bob_to_background_collision command),
does any one think it's possible to write a screen saver using amos? If so
how?

Darryl

-- Via DLG Pro v1.0


From amos-request@svcs1.digex.net Thu Dec  1 03:03:31 1994
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 21:49:54 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mike Sikorsky <sikorsky@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: Hardcol & screen savers
To: Darryl Lewis <Darryl_Lewis@comlink.mpx.com.au>
Cc: amos-list@access.digex.net
In-Reply-To: <9412010203.AA00vvv@comlink.mpx.com.au>
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On Wed, 30 Nov 1994, Darryl Lewis wrote:

> hi everybody,
> 
> I'm interested in the hardcol command, but there are no demo programs on it
> and the manual is not very helpful. Has anybody got (or know of) any
> examples using this?
>

	sorry.. can't help you with this... I have never played with this
  comnd yet.. 

 
> Also, (apart from amos amos needing a bob_to_background_collision command),
> does any one think it's possible to write a screen saver using amos? If so
> how?
> 

	ya it is... but not a very nice one... first it would have to use
 a busy waiting loop to see if the mouse has moved and second if compiled
 it would have to be at least 50k...

	Note: the mouse co-ords you have to monitor are not the ones
              returned from Mouse X/Y..you have to monitor the mouse
              from Screen.MouseX/Y...


								mike

> Darryl
> 
> -- Via DLG Pro v1.0
> 
> 

