#woa98 IRC Log:

Even more explaining

This is an edited log file from the #woa98 IRC channel which carried live news from the show. With 300-400 users still logged on from across the globe, there is a lot of confusion regarding the announcement.
Erik Elgersma, after editing way too many logs, feels like his brain has been formatted and someone's installed Windows 95.

Contents

Important folks online

y that has been a

RexxMast> great things for the Amiga in the next two years..I like it! :)

cycle> That's the good news.

frotz> agami: there is no mass market for the amiga right now.

RexxMast> btw for those that don't know there is a Q&A session on #woa98

cycle> <---agrees with Frotz......cycle sellss amigas lost 340 clients last year

cycle> <---- 10 clients (maybe) left

TA> SMouse, some of that has been decided, but keep in mind that there are currently 5-6 different kernals being studied even as we chat here. Which one they pick will have something to do with those kind sof technical questions. What is being aimed at is the same look and feel, but powerful and ahead of it's class. GA

daRK^Man> Jason.... I expect a report out this week.

Senex> RexxMast: Seems Amiga is getting to bigger dimensions, eh...? "Two more YEARS" instead of "two more weeks"...

sympan> re all

Smouse> thanks Ta

RexxMast> hehe

RexxMast> btw for those that don't know there is a Q&A session on #woa98

Dave> anyone know about error correction?

RMerlin> Queue: Dark^Man, draven_, Vigo, frotz, Kunitoki, rewd, dooz

Witness> Since it seems we are starting from scratch, why not REALLY jump ahead of the competition and introduce a 128 or 256 bit OS/hardware for the Amiga? As long as we stay in the 64 bit neighborhood, we're still on the same block, but only in a slightly nicer house. GA also means "Go Amiga! GA

TA> Witness, thing slike that are goinbg to be part of the deciding factor for the next kernal. I can't say more. sorry.

Witness> thanks

frotz> dave: go ahead and make an error, we'll correct you. 8)

RMerlin> Queue: draven_, Vigo, frotz, Kunitoki, rewd, dooz, Heimdall, Cyberwlf

daRK^Man> Did AI strategically inquire of Amiga developers and supporters before getting into this x86 support, or was this a politically nice sounding decision to the suits? I've always been impressed with the x86 speed, but the Amiga has never trailed anyone's design. Did Phase 5 know about this change in direction for a while... or did they just get the new? GA

Dave> hehehe

goody> I hope someone asks about screens.

RexxMast> goody ask yourself

RexxMast> /msg RMerlin Q

TA> Dark, AI and the ICOA took a look at what was being offered to them and what is available now. The decisions made had nothing to do with suits. It has to do with our look and feel AND what is strategically best for the amiga long term.

TA> ga

TheBerr> What time it is in London right now?

agami> frotz: You're saying no mass markett Amiga untill the year 2000?

RexxMast> btw for those that don't know there is a Q&A session on #woa98

TA> I do not know when or if P5 was advised. GA

RexxMast> btw for those that don't know there is a Q&A session on #woa98

RMerlin> Queue: Vigo, frotz, Kunitoki, rewd, dooz, Heimdall, Cyberwlf, Smouse, Tuurbo

draven_> ok, so what happends to all of our Zorro cards? are we just supposed to throw our Zorro cards away in the hopes that we will eventually get drivers for PCI based equipment? Have you seen how few and far between UNIX drivers for PCI cards are? GA

frotz> agami: i'm saying there hasnt been one for 4-6 years, and a short wait while they build a decent one is better than a piece of crap like escom tried to push on us.

agami> frotz: short wait?

caldi> And all around nice guy :)

RMerlin> TA: Wasn't sure of the exact title, thanks :)

TA> Vigo, wait fo rword from Newtek before you go away mad ... :). 2) I don't know that anyone was misled by AI. There were certainly a lot of mags claiming things. There always have been. 3) the amiga will continue with the sasme look and feel and we are not going to lose our niche. It is going to be enhanced, but I am n

TA> ot at liberty to release that info. 4) Amiga has not lost Newtek unless you know something I don't?GA

Vigo> we were misled....

Vigo> PPC for a year... then...guess what.... we hav eto dump everything..

RMerlin> Vigo: Perhaps Newtek will need to have a serious meeting with AInc in a near future?

TA> Vigo: Thing sin the computer industry happen at weird times. Just yesterday another exciting thing shappened that had an effect on todays outing fo rinstance. GA

TA> sorry about the mistypes guys.

Vigo> well... I will have little to do with it now..

Vigo> I can't wait to hear how raving mad our users are after this

Vigo> GA

RMerlin> Queue: frotz, Kunitoki, rewd, dooz, Heimdall, Cyberwlf, Smouse, Tuurbo, goody, Exec, Dark^Man, JWDev, El^Diablo

TA> Sometimes one phone call makes or breaks things. GA

caldi> Vigo: just wait and lett the dust settle before doing anything... i'd advise users the same.

RMerlin> I agree with caldi there.

frotz> OK, I've heard Intel/NOT INTEL a few times today, can you clarify what the bridge machine will be like and what the final plans will be like, in as general or specific terms as you are able to? Please don't "punt" on this question but rather make a real effort to give us some information that'll allow us to picture wh

frotz> at these machines represent and how you expect the market to receive them. Thanks, GA.

RMerlin> The show will go on for another two days, in which time some things might become clearer.

TA> Frotz: I mistake of the tongue happened at the dev conf today and Mr havemose said "INTEL" instead of pc on several occassions. People have taken that word and made a whole new story up. The Bridge system WILL be x86 and amiga in one box. After that, no Intel. Doe sthat answer it?

RMerlin> TA: Just to make sure everyone understands, that bridge is meant as a temporary thing, right?

frotz> ok, can you describe how these boxes will be marketed or who they're aimed at? GA

frotz> and please describe what the final box is supposed to be able to do, are we talking set top or desktop or what?

frotz> GA

TA> The design here is to give us something temporary (18-24 months) NOW as we have been bitching for , whil ethey do the new generation machine and get our dev up to speed.

TA> Frotz: BIG BOX amiga is definite! there may be others as well. GA

RMerlin> Queue: Kunitoki, rewd, dooz, Heimdall, Cyberwlf, Smouse, Tuurbo, goody, Exec, Dark^Man, sasc (JWDev changing client :), El^Diablo, z12rt, CTRLX, ActiveLow

Kunitoki> Has a decision been made as to the status of AROS? Will they be allowed to continue their work? -- Will developers have to register with ICOA to get developer info, or will it be publicly available? GA

TA> Ok, last part first. The ICOA wil lbegin elections shortly for several open seats on the Steering Committee. Developers WILL have to register with them, yes. AI is also talking about making the dev info as public as possible but that has not been worked out as to how or when yet. GA

caldi> And the first part? :)

TA> AI has said several times that they would like open systems, inclusion, etc. They are looking at ways to do that with the developer info as we speak. I make the assumption that this will be passed off to the ICOA to take care of. GA

RMerlin> Queue: dooz, Heimdall, Cyberwlf, Smouse, Tuurbo, goody, Exec, Dark^Man, sasc, El^Diablo, z12rt, CTRLX, ActiveLow

rewd> Q answered. GA

dooz> Basically Amiga users on present Amigas will not get any OS updates ever again (?!) :( Outrages... However price tag for complete PC+Amiga card is not in low end teritory at all. How can x86 run 68k code faster than eg. 68060? What is the quarantie that Gateway/AI will ever make 1999's Amiga and not leave us on PC car

dooz> d and later assimilate on win9X? Will AI grant PPC port of AOS by phase5 or Haage&Partner, there is a BeOS kernal for PPC too? GA

TA> Ok, I may not do you much good here but let me see.

TA> Basically what you have now will continue to run al lthe software you currently have, but it will not work in the next generation amiga s far as we know today. The Bridge system will run what we have today.

TA> The x86 is NOT going to be running the amiga code. There will be two systems in ONE box, an either/or type of thing, not emulation of type of thing.

TA> ga

TA> did that do ya?

dooz> yep

dooz> ga

TA> Oh, PPC is not going to make it past what we have now.

TA> That is as of about 7pm CDT. :)

caldi> TA, ummm, are saying this x86 box is just a temporary dongle for the new super cool multimedia hardware?

TA> caldi, yes, the Bridge system is to give users and developers a system NOW whil eth next generation is being developed.

RMerlin> Queue: Heimdall, Cyberwlf, Smouse, Tuurbo, goody, Exec, Dark^Man, sasc, El^Diablo, z12rt, CTRLX, ActiveLow

HeimDaLL> sorry some of the following has JUST been asked and I didn't have time to remove it :)

HeimDaLL> If I understand well, AOS4.0 will not really be Amiga. But AI is saying that the version after WILL be Amiga. Why should I trust them now and buy that BRIDGE computer when a few months ago they were saying without a doubt that the way to go was 68k/PPC?? What will they say next year? To buy a PC, now that we partly go

HeimDaLL> t used to it? And what will make that BRIDGE so fast compared to current Amigas and as fast as current PCs but still only PRI000?? Won't this simply be cheap crappy PCs running Siamese? And will GW start talking about the Amiga somewhere in their company or it will always be "another thing" ? And you are saying the nex

HeimDaLL> t Amiga will not necessarily be x86 at all or it will? (after the Bridge) Shall it be a custom Amiga or some kind of PC?? it isn't clear to me so far.. (sorry for loads of questions :)) GA

TA> wow! Good questions!

HeimDaLL> thx :)

TA> Please don't think like OS4 or OS5, think about Bridge System and next generation amiga. NO designations have been set for future OS's as of tonight, though numbers seem to be bandied about everywhere.

TA> The Bridge system will be fast because it will be a vamped up amiga, plus a seperate pc system all in one box. The best of both worlds if you will.

HeimDaLL> OS4 and OS5 is much faster to write ;)

TA> The price is good because I am assuming Gateway will assist here.

TA> Dis that get them all? GA

HeimDaLL> Does it mean some kind of boosted 060 or 080 for the BRIDGE system?? GA

TA> Heimdall, sorry I can not say in specifics, but boosted, yes. GA

RMerlin> Queue: Cyberwlf, Smouse, Tuurbo, goody, Exec, Dark^Man, sasc, El^Diablo, z12rt, CTRLX, ActiveLow, rewd, Tigerwizz

Cyberwlf> What is happening to the existing Amiga hardware out there, people have thousands of dollars invested in Amiga hardware and news seem that you wont even support that when every past management has supported even a degree of backwards compatability. There will be a huge backlash in regards to dropping the existing hard

Cyberwlf> ware, if OS 3.5 remains 68k and OS 4.0 is no 68k but PPC,Alpha,etc this will be ok but this doesnt seem to be the case.., what is your response to this? I see alot of positives of going multiplatform, but by the time i see it happening Amiga =Nill user base. And to be honest a new platform may make it with Palmtop des

Cyberwlf> igners and STB people but as a computer the Amiga could die from such actions. This move has put EVERY Amiga hardware manafacturer as good as out of busienss, and made alot of Amiga Software developers up coming projects very likely to find them scrapped. Theres a right and wrong way of doing things, and theres ways y

Cyberwlf> ou can achieve this goal, but AI have crossed that line.

Cyberwlf> I *know* it has a degree of backwards compat and all but this doesnt change the fact that all this products under development or in current manafacture people will most likely cease production/development now because of this.

Cyberwlf> Incidently is AI just trying to reinvent the wheel by releasing what the Siamese System already has done for a while now?

Cyberwlf> GA

caldi> ok, lets give TA 5 minutes to read that :)

TA> First, forget all this 3.5 and 4.0 stuff ok? Think Bridge system and next generation amiga.

RMerlin> Try to keep it 512 chars max guys :)

TA> At some point to survive in this world we HAVE to move on or we do die. It has been determined that NOW is that time and the money is there to do this. PC users are in this boat all the time. You can either do it to migrate to a new amiga or continually do it with a new pc. Your choice?

Cyberwlf> But what of all money spent

Cyberwlf> You dont see the pc world doing this

TA> I doubt seriously, having talked to many developers myself that they will cease doing business. They have lived thru the worst of it and are excited about having something new coming. GA

Cyberwlf> Atleast with pcs you can keep some hardware you invested in outside of h-drives,cd's,etc.

RMerlin> Cyberwlf: The PC world will ask you to upgrade your whole system more regularily however.

Cyberwlf> I realise this.

TA> Cyber, you DO see the pc world doing this. It happens just to run a new game sometimes. We use Dell's at work, I have seen it twice in two years.

TA> Eventually we have to bite the bullet or die.

TA> ga

RMerlin> Queue: Smouse, Tuurbo, goody, Exec, Dark^Man, sasc, El^Diablo, z12rt, CTRLX, ActiveLow, rewd, Tigerwizz, Harlan, Witness

Smouse> Yes will amigainc look into gettin real audio/video , Shockwave ,Icq for amiga and not some shoddy ports but real Products and Will there be a bridge system for existing systems?

Smouse> GA

TA> Smouse, what we have today will work for awhile, at least until the next generation amiga come sout I am told. As far as ports are concerned, there are already strategic partners lined up to do some things yes. I am not at liberty to name names unless I want to lose my manhood entirely. :) GA

RMerlin> Queue: Tuurbo, goody, Exec, Dark^Man, sasc, El^Diablo, z12rt, CTRLX, ActiveLow, rewd, Tigerwizz, Harlan, Witness, Simple

Tuurbo> Also One of the main factors in purchasing my PPC card was Petro,Jeff Schindler and Joe Torre specifically announced at the Gateway Amiga show in St. Louis that the new cpu will be both PPC and faster 060's

caldi> TA: So is it true Lorena Bobbit was hired as the press contact? :) (Sorry)

Tuurbo> will we need new roms ??? ga

TA> Caldi, fleecy's last words to me were, if you cross this line, they will be lost forever ... :)

TA> Tuurbo, In any business thing sdo happen. A phone call can happen that changes the way space flights are done and the direction a computer may take. I can not say more. GA

Tuurbo> and why not just do what Mac did to make new os support PPC and 68k???

TA> Tuurbo, because the Amiga is going a totally different direction than the mac. GA

goody>H as there been any talk of screens being supported or not? I like screens. GA next person

TA> what do you mean screens?

TA> be more specific?

goody> darn, good question

RMerlin> I doubt the OS specifics have been determined yet.

goody> like being able to creat several screens all at diff .... help

RMerlin> TA: Will the concept of multiple screen still exist in the future OS.

caldi> I assume you mean flipping screens such as Amiga N and M, et

TA> no OS specifics for the next generation amiga have been determined to my knowledge. GA

goody> ga

RMerlin> Queue: Dark^Man, sasc, El^Diablo, z12rt, CTRLX, ActiveLow, rewd, Tigerwizz, Harlan, Witness, Simple

Exec> TA: First of all, thank you for being so patient with us. First, I just want to be clear that you are talking about writing an entirely new OS/Kernal and straying from the system we have all grown to know and love instead of enhancing and further developing the marvelous OS that is Amiga. Correct? Secondly, last year

Exec> I spent #WOA98368.77 on Amiga products. This year I have already spent #WOA98572. I *will not* spend any money on an IBM PC compatible. Being a seasoned professional software engineer, I get enough of that inferiority at work everyday. It is a joy to come home to my network of Amigas. Please don't take that away from me.

TA> RM: I was told that 'look and feel' were primary in the decisions they have nmade.

Exec> (GA)

TA> Exec: It was made very clear to me that look and feel and the culture of the amiga will not be forgotten and that had a great deal to do with these decisions. Secondly, we have all spent lots of money. Myself included. My 3000 is finally beefed up! But eventually we have that single choice to make ... migrate or die.

TA> ga

RMerlin> Queue: sasc, El^Diablo, z12rt, CTRLX, ActiveLow, rewd, Tigerwizz, Harlan, Witness, Simple, Rony2

daRK^Man> Will the new O/S V5 or NXG be in position for HDTV SFX and the upcoming digital TV systems? And will we see a HDTV Toaster path as a stated goal? And is digital video the new target for Amiga as it's niche? Or is this way ahead of where we are now? If I'm way ahead what has been a target? GA

TA> I can not comment on any specifics of this kind for any future amiga's. General questions I can do. Sorry. GA

sasc> Gary, thanks for bringing the reports. Furthermore, thanks for putting up with the less than positive aftermath. My question is this: Of the current "leaders" in the Amiga community (Holger, etc.) Is the mood upbeat?

RMerlin> Queue: El^Diablo, z12rt, CTRLX, ActiveLow, rewd, Tigerwizz, Harlan, Witness, Simple, Rony2, RMerlin

sasc> Also, I feel like "good riddance" to the past. We need to move on, how did some of our applications developers attending feel about the eventual loss of Legacy support?

sasc> GA

TA> sasc: as far as I currently know, for the most part, yes. Most developers kno wthat we are at an end junction and have to move on or it's really over. The 68xxx is at it's end now.

TA> ga

RMerlin> Queue: El^Diablo, z12rt, CTRLX, ActiveLow, rewd, Tigerwizz, Harlan, Witness, Simple, Rony2, RMerlin, Da5id

El^Diablo> Why does it seem as though the people who stayed with the Amiga are not being treated as well as those who have jumped ship early? GA

TA> I was not there and can only tell you that when the P5 announcement was made and then Mr havemose mis-spoke and said Intel meaning pc, the crowd went nuts. :(

El^Diablo> I can see why

El^Diablo> GA

TA> El: In what way do you mean? I for one think that the openness is applaudable?

RMerlin> Mac Expo had Bill Gates, WOA had Intel :)

El^Diablo> What oppenness

TA> How many other computer companies would allow what i am doing right now for instance?

TA> Not only alolow it but sanction it?

TA> ga

El^Diablo> I agree with that but it would have been nice to have an inkling

El^Diablo> ga

RMerlin> Queue: z12rt, CTRLX, ActiveLow, rewd, Tigerwizz, Harlan, Witness, Simple, Rony2, RMerlin, Da5id

TA> El, the back door deals that happen because of the need for secrecy, etc do not allow much to be said until it is time to say it. GA

caldi> z12rt appears to be gone

RMerlin> Ok, next.

CTRLX> ...And from the sounds of things it seems like the Amgia is morphing into another PC clone.......The existing Amiga user base consists of 500, 1200, 2000, 3000 and 4000 owners and it is expected that we (they) trash what they have HW and SW just to start over again?

CTRLX> ...and is there still going to be the promised (in St Louis) release 3.5 OS? (Sorry if this is a repeate question)

CTRLX> ga

TA> CTRLX: 3.5 is dead! Gone! Finite'! We are NOT migrating to a pc system. The next generation amiga will be the same look and feel we have now (as close as possible) with all the good things available at the time. We are going to get a newer lease on life and that is NOT pc! GA

TA> Dont trash anything for about 18-24 months. GA

RMerlin> Queue: ActiveLow, rewd, Tigerwizz, Harlan, Witness, Simple, Rony2, RMerlin, Da5id, Kunitoki, AmigaRevi

ActiveLow> coming...

RMerlin> Please prepare your question in advance...

ActiveLow> So your saying that current amiga users dont get ANY upgrades? the communities hardware/software will NOT be supported with upgrades anymore? This I believe is a SERIOUS business mistake..

ActiveLow> GA

TA> Active, as far as I know at this time, there will be a Bridge System put out that WILL use all of todays software. The next generation amiga will be a migration to a completely NEW path.

ActiveLow> 3.5 WAS promised to US! Now it's a lie.....What about multi-processor/CPU's in the Next Gen Amiga;s?

TA> That is the upgrade path for current amiga users as was announced today. GA

ActiveLow> GA Next Person

RMerlin> Queue: rewd, Tigerwizz, Harlan, Witness, Simple, (Rony2 left), RMerlin, Da5id, Kunitoki, AmigaRevi, toshka

TA> Active: In any business things happen which causes change. 3.5 was envioned when it was told and was being worked on. A newer better system was found since then. I can not comment on multithreaded processors and such as I did not ask that question so have no answer for you.

TA> ga

rewd> Gateway makes and sells PC's. when the first bought the Amiga, this was stated.

rewd> pioneer in multimedia solutions and operating systems technology," said Rick Snyder

rewd> At what point did GW2K say 'Holy Dung! This OS is Awesome!'? and decide to gather momentum to push the Amiga into

rewd> the next century? It seems that GW is tired of the Wintel monoply even before the DOJ started its crackdown, had

rewd> they been looking for something like the Amiga and it just fell in there lap or had they been looking at it on the

rewd> sidelines and jumped in at the last moment at took advantage of this opportunity?

rewd> So my question is, did GW2K luck into the Amiga deal not knowing what they had or was this a planned acquisition?

rewd> My opinion, the AmigaOS is far better than the HW its currently running on. I like the direction GW is going. It

rewd> is sad to lose the old stuff, but sometimes its just right to start over and use what you have learned.

rewd> ga

TA> Well, I can't read minds but it is common knowledge that some inside GW pushed for the buy knowing what they had and it took a little bit to convince the powers that be. Once they saw it, they have financed a new plan that will give essentially a pc for GW and an Amiga for amiga inc.

TA> ga

Tigerwizz> First of all, thanks so much for taking the time to be here and answer our questions. It's very appreciated! On the new bridge systems, will you be able to run both Windows 95/98 and AmigaOS v4, and if so, can they both be running at the same time? And secondly, what kind of system resources will come with the 99 bridge system? hd, ram, etc..

Tigerwizz> ga

TA> OK, first off forget OS4, 5 10 or whatever. Think Bridge and new generation. The bridge system will run either/or as far as I know. Either amiga or pc. It may do both but I don't know and didn't ask. I can not get into specifics such as ram drives, etc.

TA> ga

Tigerwizz> Thanks!

Harlan> Why _not_ use PeeCee technology in nextgen Amigas?

Harlan> Howabout AGP, USB, and PnP support for our new Amigas. Look at the iMAc, a new Macintosh coming out at the entry level this year. The Amiga _should_ adopt the Wintel technology, IMHO. Even the new iMac will feature those Intel technologies as standard. I think the new Amiga should support that too. But not at the cost of losing the floppy drive, as the iMac will do (stupid decision). Also that new iMac will not have _any_ expansion slots. That's

Harlan> As I understand it, OS 4 will be the next Am

TA> I also was not given that 99 number i keep seeing? But I failed to ask how much.

TA> I hate to use numbers because we don't actually know what it may be called. The bridge system will not necessarily need to have a completly new OS to run. The next generation amiga will.

TA> ga

RMerlin> Queue: Witness, Simple, RMerlin, Da5id, Kunitoki, AmigaRevi, toshka, rewd

Witness> Are we going to need 64 MB RAM and a 23 Gig HD to effectively run the next generation Amiga? And why the numerous references to "one phone call can change things"? >>> Are we EXPECTING such a phone call? <<< GA

TA> Witness, several phone calls ahve happened that have given a lot of new excitement to the Ai people. What i mean by that is that tomorrow some company may call offering something great and I would be pissed if they turned it down. As far as specifics like amounts of ram and such, I did not ask and do not know if that has been actually set in stone.

TA> ga

Witness> I'm not talking EXACT NUMBERS here; I'm asking if the next gen is going to be huge and bulky GA

TA> Witness, the kernal hasn't even been decided on and that will have a lot to do with your question. GA

Witness> Thanks! GA

RMerlin> Queue: Simple, RMerlin, Da5id, Kunitoki, AmigaRevi, toshka, rewd, Antani, Manowar2

caldi> no simple

RMerlin> Queue: RMerlin, Kunitoki, AmigaRevi, toshka, rewd, Antani, Manowar2, Smouse1

RMerlin> That's me I guess :)

RMerlin> You said that OS 3.5 was dead. I'd like to look back at that team made of Olaf BArthel, Alain Penders and Fleecy Moss who were supposedly working on specs for OS 3.5. What happened to their work?

RMerlin> Does it mean it was scrapped, that their work resulted in telling Jeff that 3.5 was futile and to go ahead with the next gen, or they were really working on this next gen spec proposal? GA

TA> RM, it is in the waste can now ... since it isn't going to be. I understand that thing shave been made available to AI that make going for 3.5 not necessary now. It was up until a few days ago still a viable product as far as my information is concerned.

RMerlin> TA: So basicaly, would you say this team wasted their time, or some of their work can still be of use?

TA> RM: some of their work may be of use, but basically it wasn't time wasted. It may have helped show that AI neede to make the jump they are making.

TA> ga

RMerlin> Ok thanks.

RMerlin> Queue: Kunitoki, AmigaRevi, toshka, rewd, Antani, Manowar2, Smouse1, RexxMast, ActiveLow

Kunitoki> I just want to say that this announcement has given me renewed hope in the Amiga! Keep up the good work AInc! But What does AInc have to say about AROS? GA

TA> I am terribly sorry, but i did not address the ARos question with them and have no knowledge. GA

RMerlin> Queue: AmigaRevi, toshka, rewd, Antani, Manowar2, Smouse1, RexxMast, ActiveLow

AmigaRevi> 1)Why don't Amiga OS developers believe in theirself anymore? Why to use any alien kernel instead of writing one? It

AmigaRevi> screwed up! Once again - are Dr. Ed Hepler, RJ Mical or Carl Sassenrath in conjunction with further Amiga plans?

AmigaRevi> When thinking about cutting-off old Amiga machines, why do you believe another new OS will "save the world"? There

AmigaRevi> is a few of them already trying to do so, but with no success (yet), so why do you believe nextgen AOS will succeed?

AmigaRevi> 2) As for the new chipset? It is developed just for Amiga? Because according to some statements saying Amiga will be again better than PC it seems so? So it is going to be "custom" and not licenced to Pc world? GA

TA> AmigaRev, I can not coment on who may or may not be involved. I know many people have been consulted. Chips I can not talk about either. Sorry. GA

RMerlin> Queue: toshka, rewd, Antani, Manowar2, Smouse1, RexxMast, ActiveLow, Gaddar

toshka> don't you afraid that p5 and other developers and users who invested $ into ppc will go powerup/warpup instead of your way?GA

TA> I believe the next gen amiga will succeed because the same drive and vision that Carl and others had with the first one is there again. GA

RMerlin> Good one.

TA> toshka: It doesn't matter what way they go. It will ONLY be amiga if they follow th epath set out by AI.

TA> ga

RMerlin> Queue: rewd, Antani, Manowar2, Smouse1, RexxMast, ActiveLow, Gaddar, Exie

TA> The loss of P5 is devastating to some at first look, but it is a long way off for an A box orpre box.

TA> we can have better, faster with this path!

TA> ga

RMerlin> Queue: Antani, Manowar2, Smouse1, RexxMast, ActiveLow, Gaddar, Exie

Antani> Is the bridge system an attempt to steal users to the wintel world and show them the capabilities of Amiga OS, in the perspective of a brand new REAL AMIGA to be launched in 1999? GA

TA> shhhsh! don't tell the world our secret. Just let it happen. GA

Antani> :-)

TA> ;)

RMerlin> Is that all for Antani? :)

Antani> yep

TA> sorry, ga

RMerlin> Queue: Manowar2, Smouse1, RexxMast, ActiveLow, Gaddar, Exie, toshka, ChriZ

caldi> did we miss rewd earlier?

RMerlin> caldi: I think I saw him being unvoiced.

RMerlin> caldi: Go with Manowar2 for now, I'll double-check.

Manowar2> why is AmigaOS 4.0 impossible on PPC cpus ?..What will happen to all those software companies like ClickBoom,Vulcan,NovaDesign which invested money on PPC ? GA

RMerlin> Queue: rewd, Smouse1, RexxMast, ActiveLow, Gaddar, Exie, toshka, ChriZ

RMerlin> caldi: He was voiced and unvoiced before he could ask :)

caldi> the track is fast :)

RMerlin> Sorry, it's been a long day/night for ALL of us. :)

TA> Manowar: It isn't impossible. It is a matter of what is best for the future of our playform LONG term. Once th ewhol eplan is unvieled it will be much clearer. GA

TA> playform=platform ... :)

RMerlin> Queue: rewd, Smouse1, RexxMast, ActiveLow, Gaddar, Exie, toshka, ChriZ, Dustbin, Fux0r

rewd> Will AmigaInc have a budget for advertising? Will GW start selling Amiga's thru GW? Will we start seeing boing

rewd> balls on TV finally:-)

rewd> ga

TA> rewd: Amiga Inc has a budget now, yes. I won't specualte on how they will spend it. I was told BTW specifically that Amiga INc is the developmental arm and that Amiga International is the sales arm, not GW. GA

TA> hahaha

rewd> heh

TA> will snag a quick cup. one second ...

rewd> sugar helps :)

TA> ok back.

rewd> will we see boing balls on sienfeild reuninon?

rewd> :)

TA> hahaha, no idea. GA

RMerlin> TA: About the advertizing budget? :)

TA> Long as mine are intact I am happy. :)

RMerlin> Sorry, mised it :)

TA> Amiga Inc DOES have their budget set. I did not ask specific dollars though. GA

RMerlin> Queue: Smouse1, RexxMast, ActiveLow, Gaddar, Exie, toshka, ChriZ, Dustbin, Fux0r, Archmage

Smouse1> what is the new Architecture of the neXt amiga and will the machine also be backwards compatable to use Ibm software also (sorry had to say the Ibm word)and is the 68k code ever going to be emulated in the neXt amiga for compatibility with older ware I just reged a bunch of stuff am I going to have to abandon it? and

Smouse1> try Jolt Cola it has more caffine than Regular Coffiee(its a soda)tastes better to and thanks Rmerlin for making me wait heheh :)~~ GA

TA> I can not really comment on the specifics of the next generation amiga s the kernal and other things are currently being looked at. Since we have always done emulation I am going to guess that it won't be out of the question, but the path does take us way away from what we currently have in use today software-wise.

TA> ga

RMerlin> Queue: RexxMast, ActiveLow, Gaddar, Exie, toshka, ChriZ, Dustbin, Fux0r, Archmage

RexxMast> Why not just rewrite and update the current OS? Then it definately would have the same "look & feel" I mean the AmigaOS is sweet and lean, not to mention the fact that AREXX is very cool! The AmigaOS could be platorm independent as well. Did they find this to be impossible or what?

TA> It is possible to have the same look and feel without as much effort as a complete rewrite of AmogaOS by using the path they are taking, plus it gives us much more compatibility to other thing sbeing worked on now.

TA> did I come close to answering you? ga

RexxMast> Also, will Gateway's name be involved with the Amiga in any way shape or form?

RexxMast> So it was the effort involved in rewriting the AmigaOS?

TA> Rexx: That I do not know. Amiga Inc mad eonly that distinction about the sales/developmental arms that I mentioned earlier. GA

TA> Rexx: Not so much the effort as an opportunity to do something even better has come along. GA

RexxMast> ok..just wondering why the Amiga OS was abandones really. Thanks!

RMerlin> RexxMast: My personal guess is to make any MAJOR changes, they have to depart with some of the old legacy code.

ActiveLow> First a comment: It's dissapointing seeing Amiga Inc. devote resources to developing an OS upgrade and then canceling it with no good articulate reason for doing so (at least that can be said), I hope this trend doesnt continue with the Bridge/next Gen projects with anonouncing then canceling plans leaving the Amiga users nothing......What's the time frame for releasing ALL the information, such as the *FULL* road map for the Amiga's development, or will

RMerlin> RexxMast: So it was a choice: to move forward, or keep dragging the limitations of the old architecture.

RMerlin>R exxMast: Just my personal opinion tho.

ActiveLow> RMerlin: Even the MAC upgrades the exsisting user base...

RMerlin> ActiveLow: People often complain at how slow PowerMacs are compared to the CPU under the hood. Beside, Mac has Rhapsody and such underway now.

RMerlin> (Sorry TA, go on :)

ActiveLow> 8)

TA> Active: When an opporunity fall sinto your lap and you pass it by, that is stupidity and these guys aren't stupid. That is what happened here. I have no set plan given to me yet as to when all details will be forthcoming. I or someone from Ai will do that as soon as posible. GA

RMerlin> Queue: Gaddar, Exie, toshka, ChriZ, Dustbin, Fux0r, Archmage, Witness, rewd, Darwin

Gaddar> if amiga won't use ppc anymore and not use intel either with next generation,it means that it will be something special I wonder about the new meterial and also what will happen to our towered 68k/ppc amigas?Shall we throw them away or still save them?And Pls Don't kill the soul that Jay Miner created.Make us believed in something.

RMerlin> This whole conference is being logged by caldi BTW. Unedited logs will be available after the conference I guess.

Gaddar> what is the official word that are expected

TA> gadder: I was told specifically that three things are most important right now ... 1) give us an excellent upgrade path that includes the 'culture' of the amiga, 2) make sure our developers are kept up to speed and move with us, 3) make sure the users see something better than what we have today.

TA> ga

TA> Eventually all things become throw-aways. that is the society we live in ... :)

ExiE> 1) What reactions do you expect of current Amiga developers? (P5 mainly, Index, H&5 and all software developers who invested to P5's PPCs)

ExiE> 2) And there is a basic question of trust, why should we believe AInc now!

ExiE> when you aren't supporting us but new machine and new OS?

ExiE> GA

TA> Exie: I expect P5 is pissed. The others I am not sure about that you mentioned. Iknow the developers I have talked with are excited by this opportunity to finally move on to something better than what we now have. GA

RMerlin> Queue: toshka, ChriZ, Dustbin, Fux0r, Archmage, Witness, rewd, Darwin, KarlosI, Da5id

RMerlin> Oops.

toshka> TA:will you personally buy new amiga,don't you think that p5 is _years_ ahead you (they have working h/w and s/w unlike you) and

toshka> where can we get more info about new h/w(in fact you didn't say/know anything about h/w)? where are numbers,cpumaker name?GA

RMerlin> We're no longer taking questions.

RMerlin> We'll just finish with those already in queue.

TA> toshka: I do NOT think P5 is years ahead. In some instances they have been holding us hostage. as far as hardware, I have no knowledge of that set in stone. maybe tomorrow more will come out. GA

TA> My personal opinion on P5 BTW.

RMerlin> Queue: ChriZ, Dustbin, Fux0r, Archmage, Witness, rewd, Darwin, KarlosI, Da5id, Get_Merry

RMerlin> caldi: Move to the next.

RMerlin> We'll come back with ChriZ.

RMerlin> Queue: Dustbin, ChriZ, Fux0r, Archmage, Witness, rewd, Darwin, KarlosI, Da5id, Get_Merry

Dustbin> How long have you been awake TA? :) Anyways, Do AI plan a complete hardware change vs. the brige system after the OS developments? And in your best guess, how compatible will the bridge be with current Amiga tech? thx, GA

TA> Dust: I was told tonight that the bridge will run ALL current amiga software. My understanding is the the next generation amiga will take advantage of what is available plus what they can get made available at that time. about two days ... :) GA

RMerlin> Queue: Fux0r, Archmage, Witness, rewd, Darwin, KarlosI, Da5id, Get_Merry

FuX0R> so, it seems many purists believe the amiga has a future with a redevelopment; but the sad truth is that the amiga is known by the mass market as dead, as has been so since around 94/95. Are you all saying that the resurection of the machine will apply only to the minute crowd of users that have stuck by it? Surely the ratio of engineering and research expenses Vs. market sales by users is nothing short of ridiculous? GA

TA> Fuxor: The bridge system will give others a chance to finally see whatthey amiga can do and will give us the opportunity to have the best of both worlds. naturally AI is hoping that these two things plus good marketing will cause a rebirth. GA

RMerlin> Queue: Archmage, Witness, rewd, Darwin, KarlosI, Da5id, Get_Merry

Archmage> Do you have any idea about WHEN the whole plan will be unveiled? Also, do you know if there will be a transcript of the pressconference available? GA

TA> Fuxor: also the next generation amiga will blow some minds. That will help!

TA> Archmage: No I do not know when all the plans will be revealed. unfortunately that depends to some degree on the strategic partners as well as AI. A transcript is supposed to be forthcoming. I may have it tomorrow. GA

RMerlin> Queue: Witness, rewd, Darwin, KarlosI, Da5id, Get_Merry

Witness> What is the >>>MOST<<< you can tell us that has not been said tonight? Thanks for being here, btw! GA

RMerlin> "Where's my bed"? :)

Witness> I'm talkin' about the GOOD stuff! :)

TA> Witness: That is a hard question because I was given some limited perameters, but not so much that it would keep anyone from knowing the basic facts? I will try to answer anything asked if I can? GA

Witness> Oh well, I tried! :)

Witness> ga

RMerlin> Queue: rewd, Darwin, KarlosI, Da5id, Get_Merry

rewd> Maybe to clarify, you say 'look and feel' of the Amiga OS, do you mean the actual AmigaOS kernel or just the look

rewd> will be a 3rd party doing the kernel. Will it be tha Amiga kernel as it is now (mostly in C and some 68KASM(exec

rewd>mostly I heard))? If it is a re-write, or port from another OS is it not then not the Amiga? If its a port of

rewd> another OS (Be, linux. ETC...) to look like an Amiga is it not then just a window manager?

rewd> So, Question is, will the Amiga C source kernel be ported to the new architecture? Or will this be a hybrid BeOS,

rewd> Linix, Mac OS? A new OS if you will, not an AmigaOS.

rewd> CAn you calarify that the Amiga Kernel will be used as the base OS for the port?

TA> sorry getting some heavy traffic from somewhere ...

RMerlin> TA: Flood?

TA> rewd: I did NOt say there will be a third party doing the porting. they are looking at many different kernals right now. Th erest is just too technical to talk about yet. GA

rewd> will the amiga kernel be used as the origal kernel?

rewd> or will it be scrapped?

TA> Once the kernal has been chosen, those decisions will be made I am sure. GA

Darwin> TA: (a simple question) what happens to MUI with the bridge machine and the next gen machine? as a lot of people like it and a lot of people hate it, I'm not fond of it but I've gotten used to it and others have too I expect (I said it was simple :)

Darwin> GA

caldi> rotfl

Darwin> hehe

TA> Darwin: what runs on your amiga today will run on the bridge system. Th enext generation amiga is a whole differnet computer. GA

RMerlin> Queue: KarlosI, Da5id, Get_Merry

KarlosI> Hi Gary, these recent news turned otu to be larger then big, it is a monstrous force pushing a wave of shock and disbelief through the Amiga community.What I'm concenred about is whether AMIGAOS v4.0 wil still have the look and feel of Amiga along with the Workbench that will go along with it? Can you clarify as to how [Amiga, Inc.] [in]tends to change the OS, and as to whether or not you get the idea or feeling asto whether or not the AmigaOS will still maintain it's appeal that has attracted and maintained a group of loyal Amiga users? I think what many ppl are scared of is change for the worse in the OS, perhaps as bloated as Windows 95?

KarlosI> ga

KarlosI> ;)

TA> Karlos: I know how fleecy feels about the OS and do not think we are going to get some bloated monstrousity. That is MY opinion. I woul drather not use numbers like OS4 because that really hasn't been set in stone yet, but it has been made plain several times by different folks with AI and the ICOA that they too like

TA> the look and feel and do not want to lose it. As far as WB is concerned, I have no idea. GA

RMerlin> Queue: Da5id, Get_Merry

Da5id> The "bridge" system exists largely so developers can begin work on AOS5 projects (and the new hardware that this entails)... so, the question is, how much of this new hardware will actually be present on the bridge card? Also, does the bridge card contain any kind of hardware emulation for legacy ("Classic") Amigas, or is just going to be software in AOS4? GA

TA> Da5: The bridge system is not what you are understanding it to be. That will be a bridge to the future and will contain hardware to run all the apps you run today, plus also th ebest of the pc world. ga

Da5id> Yes, but how does the bridge actually relate to the "new" Amiga hardware? I mean, if theres nothing in common, what is the point? GA

RMerlin> Get_Merry, you got the shocking night finale of this series :)

TA> The bridge system is a new machine out now (soon) that we have been bitching for. It will be the best of both worlds while AI develops the next generation amiga.

TA> did that get you answered?

Da5id> mostly :)

Da5id> thnx ;) GA

TA> The bridge is the migration point fo rus. GA

caldi> So there is no reason to buy this new bridge amiga if your focus is developing for "OS5"

caldi> ?

TA> caldi, I faile dto ask that specifically. sorry. I will get an answer to that one as it has come up multiple times.

Darwin> TA: so it's just a stop gap machine with the same speed CPU's that the Amiga currently has (bar the x86 side)?

TA> Darwin: I was told it will be a beefed up amiga nd pc combo machine.

TA> No specs can be revealed tonite though.

RMerlin> Get_Merry: Shock us with the finale ;)

Get_Merry> i just asked it

Get_Merry> 1. Will the new Amiga be distributed any better then at the present time, say at then Gateway 2000 shops or at major retail chains? ( especially in australasia there is VERY little)

Get_Merry> 2. Will this OS5 machine be able to run PC software like the bridge system will? (for zap) GA

TA> get_Merry: I have not asked about distribution yet. I will get an answer to that as well.

Get_Merry> ok thanks

RMerlin> Well, t-t-t-that's all folks :)

RMerlin> Big cheers to Gary for taking his sleep time to answer our questions :)

Get_Merry> can i ask, what GA means?

RMerlin> Get_Merry: Go Ahead

Get_Merry> ok

TA> I appreciate you guys taking the time and being civil. I know many are scared, mad, whatever, but you will see it is a BIG, GOOD plan!

RMerlin> My personnal comment is: look, listen, and wait a few days to digest it all.

RMerlin> Then you can decide what you think of this.

Darwin> thanks for your patience and answeriing important questioons TA :)

RMerlin> sasc is handling the logs.

sasc> Okay. We'll have this Conference up in HTML shortly

RMerlin> This channel will now go unmoderated.

sasc> the url: http://www.primenet.com/~jweb/woa98news.html

RMerlin> If you want a quieter place to discuss, I suggest trying #amiga :)

RMerlin> Thanks caldi for giving us a hand there :)

HeimDaLL> here was the ad ;)

HeimDaLL> and the generic :)

HM_afk> Thanks Gary, RMerlin and Chris (caldi)! Get some sleep Gary. Others: Visit http://www.cnetbbs.net just for the hell of checking out an amiga developer's work if nothing else. :)

HeimDaLL> thx TA

Da5id> Thanks to all

sasc> caldi has the RAW logs..., btw

RMerlin> TA: Now get some sleep before I kickban you :)

FuX0R> da5id, maybe you should have suggested a colon port for future amigas?