#woa98 IRC Log:

First news

This is an edited log file from the #woa98 IRC channel which carried live news from the show. With 300-400 users logged on from across the globe, the first little announcements are made and reactions are given.
Erik Elgersma now suffers from log-o-vision, and will not edit anymore IRC logs till his brain is upgraded with more RAM and more HD space.

Contents

Important folks online

KayDee> Ok, Let me say one thing, and make it perfectly clear.. we are not using Intel.. at all... nobody made any announcement saying that we were using Intel..

jcompton> I made a mistake. Intel was not explicitly mentioned, but Jeff -did- say x86. I apologize for the error.

jcompton> Just to repeat: I made a mistake. Intel was not explicitly mentioned by Amiga Inc., but Jeff -did- say x86 chips would be used in the November Machine. The manufacturer has not been decided/announced. I apologize for the error.

KayDee> Ok, so are we all clear on the processor information now? The systems that will be available later this year will be available for anyone who wants them.. there will be special systems for the developers, but the end users will be able to get systems themselves. The systems that will be available later this year will be available for anyone who wants them.. there will be special systems for the developers, but the end users will be able to get systems themselves.

jcompton>Yes, the November Machine will be available to all comers who have the dough. However, my impression, and I do not express it lightly, is that it will not be very -attractive- to non-developers. In short, it will not be supported like a general personal computer. I don't dispute that this is subject to change. The uproar from the masses may be so great that they have no choice but to create an architecture more in tune with what we expect from a personal computer running AmigaOS.

KayDee> and, everybody remember, that this is jcompton+'s opinion.. it is not fact.. right jc?

jcompton> KayDee: That's a tough one to answer. Jeff did not say "It will not be supported like a general personal computer." He did, however, progressively decrease his enthusiasm for end users wanting the machine at all.

aTmosh> jc: current Amiga is not attractive to anyone but Toaster users and fanatics either

jcompton> AT: Jeff's presentation was very articulate. About an hour, I think.

jcompton> Fact: Amiga Inc. plans a developer and non-developer version of the x86-based November AmigaOS 4 machine. Fact: Jeff put a much greater emphasis on selling the developer machine so that AmigaOS 5 apps can be developed for the 1999 line of AmigaOS appliances. Opinion: The de-emphasis of the end-user platform and the move to appliances rather than computers is not what I wanted to hear.

jcompton> HD: There will be no 3.5.

TA> After talking on the phone to the UK I am prepared to answer SOME questions.Please there are still ythings NDA that I simply can not answer.

TA> OK, first of all, Amiga Inc has the room the irc stuff in only rented thru 11 their time. The rooms are now locked for protection of the equipment. M Flint said they will be back on tomorrow at 11am British time.

TA> Second, when the press event happened, some members that were in attendance did NOT like the news. Havemose opened the floor to question and answer and tried to answer some questions. It was not a good reception, but he was winging it as best he could.

tekmage> They plan to release a machine in novmeber at a $999 price level, for developers and end users

TA>There is more to come BTW as far as PR is concerned.

TA>That's correct!

tekmage> the rumor is it will have an X86 main processor with a card of some sort for amiga compatility at this point that is ALL we know, from KayDee

TA>Tek: The bridge system will have an x86 with a card system that will give full Amiga capability at faster speeds than what we have right now.

tekmage>the have heard OS 5 will follow in about 2 two years making the OS 4 and the machine a stepping stone to the OS 5 system

TA> I have no timetable on OS 5 yet. It is heavily discussed even today.

TA> Tek: Yes!

Jkay> can you say anything about the "partners"

TA> And it will NOT be emulation.

Wiv> TA: So essentially the PPC wont be in the future of Amiga as you see it ?

TA> Wiv: NO, PPC is NOT the wave of the Amiga future.

aTmosh> TA: a large graphics software company?

TA> My source is THE source. I called the UK and asked those there if I could say anything here. I also informed them of the current situation in the irc groups. M Flint and fleecy said to watch NDA's but it is ok to say some things here.

TA> The first system available will be what they call the Bridge System. It will essentially be a PC and an Amiga in ONE box. Either software will work. These will be availabel RSN ...

tekmage> TA: have you other information?

TA> For a short time we will have a dual system as fast or faster than current pc's and faster than current amiga's.

Volmer> Does the release of OS4 mean that we're actually going to run (As an example) BeOS, and not really AmigaOS? I mean, if the kernal of eg. BeOS is used..

TA> A kernal partner (several) are being looked at. Decision will be made forthwith and announced within a few weeks.

dsimpson> It sounds (so far) exactly like PPC PC + new PCI Siamese card -- yes? GA

TA> absolutely not. We will have an amiga box that runs every bit of software you have right now for the bridge system.

TA> PLUS it will also run pc software

Maniac>will the bridge be a full system or just a PC PCI card, and if so what spec PC will be required ? ga

TA> Maniac, sorry, I can not answer that one yet. It will be announced asap though.

Weirdami> Will there be advertizing (specifically in USA or North America)? ...also, why go the PC route and not the apple route?

TA> Weirdami: I will make an assumption here based on what I know has been discussed and that is a "yes". to advertising. The pc route has been chosen for speed to get the system out and for other reason that I can not go into now. GA

salty> What do AmigaInc have to say to all the people who bought PowerUP cards after the "68k+PPC is the way forward" statement? GA

TA> Salty: If this helps, there has been agonizing over this decision for months. more than that, AI will have to say.

FonkiE> TA: is the os portable right now? (c code) - or has everything to be done -- gg, GA (whatever)

TA> Fonkie, sorry, I am not at liberty to say anything except that the bridge system will be available in a couple of months.

TA> also, on the pc question, Gateway is a pc company and can get that system ready pronto for the amiga bridge.

Dustbin> This seems more complex then shown here, is it a GRAND plan that is totally invisible at the moment? Also, does this new machine mean total loss of current hardware additions? Thnx GA

TA> Dust: In the long run, what we call AmigaOS will not be here, but what we gain will be much better and I am talking LONG range here. also, we will continue to be able to use the current software long enough to allow our many fine developers time to go to the new system. GA

Audion> Will there be a "hands on" demonstration of the new OS or hardware at WOA as Darreck Lisle alluded to? Is so, when is that scheduled? GA

TA> Audion: My impression is that a system demo will take place this weekend. They were talking about that when I called and it still isn't firm, but most probably so. GA

Griff> As this statement today by AmigaInc is potentionally the rebirth of the Amiga in whatever shape or form it is going to be. Do you think that a lot of Amiga developers will move to the new Amiga platform? Do you think that these Amiga dev people will bother porting their software? GA

TA> Yes! and the reason is that AI will not only allow them the time to move that direction, but will hvae strategic partners available to give an added boost to our new platform. Developers are the core of our platform and will NOT be forgotten by AI. Did that answer it?

santa> What about support for current AMIGAs with PPC and CyberGfx? (We put lots of money in our machines) GA

TA> Everyting that we have today and will run in the near future will use AmigaDos as we know it. Long range is that the PPC card will not be an asset in the future. GA

dooz> What will be with the users who just bought their PPC cards in belief of previous AI official statement about 68k/PPC as the future CPU's in future Amiga? GA

TA> Dooz: They will have to upgrade to the new system or be left behind eventually. GA

DrFraggle>Will AI make an official anouncement soon that clarifies the news you`ve told us ? GA

TA> DR: There are some strategic partners that require the utmost in silence. I am sure that as Press Officer for the ICOA, what I say here will be verified shortly. GA

toshka_>what market is ai targeted at? amiga fans,windows users,other? and how can ai make os quickly if no kernel choosen yet?GA

TA> Toshka: The amiga market will be ALL computer users once you see the long term. I can not talk about the kernal except to say that it is being discussed even right now.

CyberWolf> Will there be a laptop AMIGA? (I need one :-) gg

TA> CyberWolf: I truthfully do not know. The Bridge system will NOT be laptop. It will be a BIG box. GA

RedBaron> Hi, if the "November Amiga" is to be a PC with an Amiga-on-a-card, then current Toaster/Flyers will not work, correct? Is there any information regarding Newtek and updates of the Toaster/Flyer? GA.

TA>Red: I have no info on that and failed to ask. I will though on the next phone call later tonight if possible. GA

NoMaam> Is the Amiga going to be a PC ?? meaning: will it run windows etc ??

TA> The bridge system will run BOTH software. Future amiga's will be amiga's ONLY is my current understanding. I could be wrong about the latter.

Volmer> TA, You did not really answer the question about the kernal that I asked you some time ago (First Q, remember? ;-]).. It's not to be like the current AmigaOS, is it? It's just (In case you're using the BeOS kernal) BeOS with modified gadgets etc.. Perhaps some small modifications.. GA

TA> Volmer: I have a hard time answering the question about the kernal as I did not spend a great deal of time talking about it. But I can say that it is being discussed. GA

MeloMniac> The OS4.0 developer board....I assume that it doesn't have that 'special chipset' that we heard about in this channel earlier. So what function does it have for developing of software, unless that 'special chipset' is not a high priority for AI and GW? Will the new Amiga's really just be PC's running an Amiga OS??? And will PC owners be able to just plug an Amiga card in their PC's? GA

TA> Melo: There will be a Bridge System Amiga that will run BOTH softwares. After that, Developers will be getting the first of the new machines with users following swiftly after.

NOx86> What will AI do when the x86 processors reach their limit (which ihmo is reached soon), whilst the PPC will increase performance ? take another 180 degree turn ? GA

TA> No: I can not answer that, sorry ...

MegaBob> What Way choose AI to distribute Worlwide The New Software And Hardware ? GA

TA> Mega: Can you ask that a little more in depth? I don't understand where you are wanting me to go here? If it's about distribution, I have not asked or been privy to any discussions on distribution of software or hardware. GA

MegaBob> IS AI going to Sell the News Soft and Hard in PC Vendor Shop ??

TA> See above answer, I really don't know what they have planned for distribution. I will ask. GA

Rog> Will or could Gateway sell the new Amigas in the future from their website ? GA

TA> Rog: Amiga Inc is the developmental arm for the Amiga. Amiga Int is the sales arm so I would presume that THEY could or might. GA

NEO> This is a long one... =) How will amiga int/inc sort up thing with p5? They owe them a BIG appologise for missleading! This might accutally be the and for p5? What are the plans for p5 in the future? The unice Datatypes and locale functions, will they dissapear? Also wonder if the guys that worked this so called plan have any experience of the amiga in the past. Do they know that Amiga WAS more then a computer. It WAS a lifestyle, religion.... GA

TA> Neo: about the discussions with P5, I can not answer. Currently AI and Amiga Int are well aware that the Amiga is a culture, not just a computer. It will stay that way.

Tigerwizz> What type of processor will be used in the new Amiga cards in the bridge system? Will we see a motorola, PPC or something else? gg

TA> Tiger, I was specifically told to NOT mention that specific of a thing. Sorry. GA

CM_Press> TA: Hi, I'm an italian press of Computer Mania OnLine Magazine and i want say you: "i think: an Amiga in a PCI board, is Amiga? or a additional card for pc and mac? this is future? or a nightmare? why are not support actual PPC board from AI?"

TA> CM: The system you are talking about is a bridge system to take us to the next generation Amiga. GA

kamil>But why not PPC?? Overpriced or underpowered? why the x86 was the choice? GA

TA> Kamil: gateway computers is a pc company. Everyone wants a new system out YESTERDAY. This is the way to do that. They are assisting Amiga Inc in this endeaver. GA

emission> What about the multiplatform goals that were claimed at Computer97 Devcon? When will currently NDA:ed info be released? Any transitional API plan, such as the MacOS X, in the works? Will there be any mainstream CPU in the post-interim Amiga? GA

TA> emission: You are asking about the long range plans and I can't get too deeply into that here today.

Chain> Will AmigaInc be looking at Custom chipsets (Ie. Designing them) again or stick to off the shelf parts? Has Mr Gates Injected any cash into AmigaInc 8O) ? GA

TA> Chain: Mr gates is NOT involved with the amiga. the other I can not discuss.

dsimpson> (mistyped my first question) Current info matches exactly with specs of proposed Siamese PCI card plus a W95 Box, including claims of vast speedup becuz of bus communications with PC graphics card, etc. PLUS Siamese has recently changed hands and seems (now) to have cash to go forward with PCI project. Can you comment? GA

TA> dsimpson: "I don't know" ... :) sorry I can not.

_ego>Regarding OS4, is the core of a development team already in place? AInc seem unusually confident given the short time space involved. GA

TA> ego: Keep in mind that some are mixing up time frames. the Bridge system will run current amiga software. The FUTURE will not.

MrDaniel> TA: What about multi CPU systems? Will it be supported in AmigaOS5 or even OS4? Also, who will provide development tools, compilers etc, in time for OS4. GA

TA> I was just promised that developers are the CORE to our platform and they will NOT be left hanging. GA

newbie> Why, with hardware independence, are current PPC-Amigas discarded as hardware platforms for OS4.0? If performance is an issue, shouldn't it be up to the user to decide whether he wants to upgrade his hardware or not? GA

TA> newbie, sorry the ppc card is not the future of the amiga. The BRIDGE system is.

`Maverick> Well i am interested thoes AI decission means all PHASE 5 2 years research (PPC,CVPPC.......) is forgotten & there is no future plans for PPC.?

TA> Maverick: I think that is up to P5 as a developer? GA

[Twig]> So we know that the November "bridge" is to be x86 and a card. What is this leading to in terms of the 1999 system and os 5? Is that x86 and a card too or a completely proprietary system?

TA> Twig: Cant say, sorry. GA

Rennex> How will the bridge machine be able to run both PC and Amiga programs? Is it the way the new GUI (and API) is ->all on same screen, or is there a separate Windows emulation? NEO also wanted to know a bit more about what's going to happen to datatypes etc unique stuff (screens?). GA

TA> Rennex: The bridge system will run both. The details will be available later. GA

phoe> when can we expect to hear specific details of the platform / chipset ? Any ideas ?

TA> The details for the bridge system will be available shortly (weeks not months). The other is months away. GA

inja> Is any work being done for internationalization e.g. multi-byte char support etc.? Or I might work for gw Japan to get things started :) GA

TA> Too technical to answer here. sorry. GA

Aes> Gary, thanks for staying and answering our questions. Q: Is this system being developed alone by GW/AInc alone, or are there any other notable companies (inside or outside Amiga circles) signed on in some type of larger scale consortium? GA

TA> Aes: This is an Amiga Inc project. I feel sure there will be strategic partners announced at some point. GA

Slash> So the amiga is just gonna be another PC clone (IBM, DELL, RM, AMIGA) and all the hard bloody effort that Phase5 have done regarding AI's statement is down the shitter........basically the Amiga is now a PC clone so they can use it's current form as a set box top!!! Gateway only had one idea in mind and that was it wasn't it!!! GA

TA> Slash: wrongo! The bridge system will run both. Later on it will be an amiga. I can not talk about P5. GA

Einstein> TA: How do they intend to build a completely new OS based on a JavaOS/Linux/BeOS kernel in such a short time? November isn't that far away, and two years aren't either!! How much money has GW invested in AI? How does AI intend to treat the AROS (team)? GA

TA> Einstein: I wish I could answer you but i can not. GA

rbn^gts> What GUI system will you choose for the next AmigaOS (MUI, Gadtools etc.)? Will you talk to companies in the games industry such as Lucasarts, Microprose and Sierra regarding developement of games for the next generation of Amiga(OS)? Will these things still remain in future AmigaOS versions (4.0, 5.0 and further) : 1) Datatypes, 2) Screens, 3) Locale?

TA> rbn: Sorry, I can not get into that here yet. GA

Funny> Tell us one reason,why we must buy November-Box instead PC right now ? As I understan,only one thing will different-Amiga OS instead Windows,but it's until some1 will make emulator on the real PC.

TA> Funny: the bridge system will be two computers in one running BOTH software's. The later versions will be Amiga's.

Jkay> There will only be a PC part to the BRIDGE system. After that, it's back to %100 AMIGA again

TA> Jkay, yes! The reason for th ebridge system is to give us a new faster amiga NOW!

Kfir> how far into development is os4.0 ? is there any code already?

TA> kfir: Sorry, off limits. GA

ReqTools> I just bought a PPC accelerator board the last week. what happens with this?

TA> Req: For the short term, you are ok. For the long term the amiga is going a different, FASTER direction with RTG and other things that are now off limits for me here.

MAY> TA:Are they planning to add extra features like new amiga custom chips to 8086 chip arcitecture?

TA> may: I can't get that specific sorry ...GA

toshka> don't you think that all who accepted x86 are on pc now(using different oses with _native_ s/w),so ai has no market?GA

TA> toskhka: No, we will have the best of both worlds fora time so that dev. can get up to speed, then we get something even better than pc or the current amiga.

[DarkMan]> ok.. I just Baught an Amiga 4000T about 4 months ago.. I spent all my savings.. I got lots of goodies for it.. NOw what your saying is I have to get rid of it?

TA> Darkman: No, in the near future, your A4000 and my A3000 will run along fine. Developers won't just stop devloping tomorrow and your A4000 won't fail to boot either. Long term, start saving up for a new amiga! :) GA

Multitask> will be Amiga a Siamese+uae on PC? I can't understand the reason it's stupid... where or when we could know all the history?

TA> Multitask: Too specific, I can not answer. sorry. GA

CyberWolf> TA: 1) Have the few remaining AMIGA developers been informed about the NEW AMIGA? I do need PageStream. 2) What other former AMIGA developer will join the Team: Dr.Hepler, Sassenrath, Dave Haynie ...?

TA> Cyberwolf: It was made VERY plain to me on the phone that part of the reason fo rthis direction is so that current dev stay and new ones can come on board as well.

Pootle> "Amiga-on-a-PC-card","no AmigaOS as we know it in the future" - All of what you have told me just sounds like GW have bought the Amiga to steal any parts of it that they like - to integrate into the next PC (a bit like Gates does) and are using this as a fasttrack way of achieving it ?- and what about Gateways statements that they bought the Amiga for its userbase loyalty? - or am I totally wrong about this??? (I hope so) ...your personal view too please?... lastly AND MOST IMPORTANTLY do you REALLY think that we will we ever see a standalone Amiga computer that does NOT depend upon a PC or other computer developed/released after we have seen AI constantly going back on its own statements?

TA> Pootle: Two parts so be ready ... :) First my PERSONAL opinion. I feel that Amiga Inc is going a totally different way than a pc as you know them today. Gateway is NOT just stealing away what we have.

TA> Second, amiga inc has a long term plan that when revealed will show you that the supposition you have made is not correct. That is the best I can do right now. GA

Swatch> What about the development system to be used on bridge systems? SAS and Storm without PPC are history. GA

TA> Swatch: Sorry I did not ask that question and have not been privy to that discussion. GA

pekr> What is the reason to use Be, Linux or what kernal? Why to pay the development then and not to use the whole Linux and call it amiga? I think Carl Sassenrath left to the REBOL ship because he felt there is not system out there to satisfy him. (even Linux nor Be)! So why not to cooperate with him for e.g. to include REBOL kernel? Is Carl Sassenrath, RJ Mical or Ed Hepler in any conjunction with future Amiga plans? from :-) Can you add a question...? "Do you guys really think ppl are willing to buy TWO new computers for ALOT of money in TWO years? U will loose alot of users!!!" pl

TA> pekr: I can not comment on that as I did not ask, but the amiga IS NOT GOING INTEL. Bank on that! GA

nicktnf2> Are you sure new bridge system will be faster executing current Amiga software? Have you got any prototype or it's just a project?

TA> Nick: Yes, I was just told it is MUCH faster (emphasize MUCH they said), plus the pc side will be faster. Later REAL amiga's will be Amiga's.

Deltar> With the weges & now towers, will the bridge system work in ANY of the current machines? GA

TA> Deltar: The bridge system is going to be A system, not an add on for your amiga. Later amiga's will be real amiga's in the sense as we know them today as far as the look and feel from what I am told. The bridge will be both amiga and pc in one box. GA

[MAd`mAX]> What exactly card will be this? just one to put in ISA on normal pc? can you describe that card a bit more? and how much will it cost? and after that a stand alone amiga will be based on intel? looks like that becose it will be hard to make a new os for ppc or something else

TA> Mad: I can NOT get specific, I was warned. Details will follow as soon as possible. GA

EquiHate> What price will the 1999 system be (roughly)? Is it worth buying both Nov.box _and_ 1999 system? Second, BIG = BrIdGe? Thanks. GA

TA> Equi: I am not involved in the pricing at all ... sorry. GA

Darwin> TA: With the announcement of the Bridge system, is AI aiming at the home market alone or at businesses and such too? ga

TA> Darwin: AI is aiming at the entire world of computers. GA

TA> They asked that I make one thing REAL clear? OK with you guys?

TA> The plan is constructed with the developers and the user community in mind. They feel it is very important to give delopers a smooth transition. That is going to be done.