Subject: "Santilli On Radio - 11/4/95"
I have obtained from the BBC, a transcript of "The Afternoon Shift", a BBC Radio 4 programme broadcast at 3.00 pm BST on 11 April 1995.
The program featured brief interviews with Loretta Proctor, Walter Haut and Ray Santilli. The latter's comments are particularly interesting:
The Afternoon Shift
Tuesday 11th April
Presenter: Louis Robinson
U.F.O's Discussion
Louis: If you're sitting comfortably we'll begin. It's an old
story about little green men which in the last few
weeks has taken a new and eerie twist. The place
Roswell, New Mexico, the date June 1947. A farmer
called William Brazel came across wreckage spread over
an area nearly a mile across, he picked some of it up
and took it home he tried to scour it with a knife,
burn it, dent it, nothing. He and his family became
convinced they were looking at the debris of an alien
space craft which had crash-landed. Farmer Brazel
showed it to one of his neighbours Loretta Proctor
she's now eighty years old and she joins me from her
home in New Mexico. Hello Loretta:
Loretta: "Good morning".
Louis: "Why did you think it was the wreckage of a UFO?"
Loretta: "At that time there were a lot of sightings around and
there was reports out you know, there was a reward out
for one and we just thought since we didn't think it
was a weather balloon - we had seen one of those
before."
Louis: "So when you actually held this piece of metal in your
hand what was it like?"
Loretta: "It really wasn't metal it looked like a lightweight
wood and it was very lightweight and very hard -
different looking to anything I've seen".
Louis: "Am I right in thinking that even though you tried to
cut it with a knife it didn't even make any
impression on the ..?"
Loretta: "No, it didn't, no it didn't make any impression."
Louis: "Now was this gentleman Mr Brazel, was he the sort of
chap to make up stories?"
Loretta: "No he wasn't, no he definitely found it"
Louis: "What happened to that piece of wood or metal or
whatever it was?"
Loretta: "I don't know when he took it home with him one evening
when he left here and I don't know what he did with it.
It may have been someone took it to Roswell I don't
know"
Louis: "Loretta did anything happen afterwards? Did the
authorities come down on you and say could you give up
all the pieces of metal or whatever it was?"
Loretta: "No. I've never had any of the authorities come
around."
Louis: Now what Loretta Proctor and many others witnessed is
known as the Roswell incident and it has become part
of UFO folklore. There is even a Roswell UFO museum
it's been open for just over three years and its taken
50,000 visitors. The man who runs it is Walter Horte.
Now in 1947 an official press statement was released
saying the wreckage of a flying disc had been recovered
and it was Walter himself who issued that press
statement.
Louis: "You issued it. Who told you to issue it Walter?"
Walter: "Colonel Blanchard who's the Base Commander he's the
one that basically told me exactly what he wanted in
a press release - that was to the effect that we had
in our possession a flying saucer."
Louis: "Right so what happened to change it because that Press
statement was later denied wasn't it - it was
rescinded"
Walter: "Well it was rescinded by General Rayme about four and
a half hours later. The material had been flown to his
office and he showed it to the newsmedia but it wasn't
the material that Major Marcel took to Fortworth that
was shown to the press it was a substitute it was part
of a weather balloon."
Louis: "So you're saying that the weather balloon that - the
airforce later said it was a weather balloon and they
showed it to the press that was a different thing to
the thing you saw originally right?"
Walter: "Well that was different than what had been picked up
at the sight and it was different from the material
that was flown from Roswell to Fortworth I did not see
any of this material."
Louis: "No, alright it was just the press statement that you
released. Thank you Walter"
Now this is all if you like history and a lot of the
people who are interested in UFO's know all this so the
latest development is the interesting one and the
continuing saga of these Aliens. Ray Santilli he's
just bought a film which claims to throw more light on
the incident.
Louis: "First of all Ray what exactly do you do?"
Ray: "We are publishers and we are also film documentary
makers."
Louis: "What does this film show?"
Ray: "The film that we have shows the vehicle recovery,
debris recovery and also autopsy of one of the
creatures that were found".
Louis: "You mean an actual alien being."
Ray: "Absolutely"
Louis: "How do you know its an alien being?"
Ray: "It certainly doesn't look like you or I".
Louis: "Is it big or small?"
Ray: "It's medium in size compared to the people that are
surrounding it. It has a large head it most certainly
is not human".
Louis: "Has it got arms and legs?"
Ray: "Yes it has."
Louis: "Is it male or female?"
Ray: "It looks from our - I mean we're not medical experts
but it looks female and we have a pathologist, a senior
Home Office pathologist, looking at the footage right
now."
Louis: "Right - where did you get this from?"
Ray: "We got it from the original cameraman, the cameraman
that shot the footage. He was sent down in June not
July of 1947 which was approximately a month before
the reported sighting in the newspaper what was it -
the Roswell Times I don't know, but apparently the
area was cordoned off and cleaned up in its entirety
or almost up until July 7th when the small area had
been discovered and some debris had been found but that
was as far as the military was concerned the area had
been completely cleaned up by then".
Louis: "Two quick questions - is it a hoax?"
Ray: "No - certainly not"
Louis: "In that case when can all of us see it in order to
make up our own minds."
Ray: "We have a showing on 28th April for interested
parties, researchers and investigators and so forth and
we'll decide what to do with the footage after that"
Louis: "How do you authenticate something like that?"
Ray: "You can only authenticate the film stock you can't
authenticate the content."
Louis: "You bought the actual film not a copy of it"
Ray: "No the film the original film".
Louis: "How come he was allowed to keep it?"
Ray: "That's a very long story and I'm not sure you've got
the time for it right now"
Louis: "So we assume that he was allowed to keep it or he
secreted it away."
Ray: "Yes"
Louis: "If it was hush hush why didn't someone come and get
it from you?"
Ray: "We have not had any contact at all from anyone in
authority so I can't answer that question"
Louis: "Okay, so we'll look forward to seeing this and
hopefully on television as well in some time in the
future".
Ray: "Absolutely"
Louis: "Okay Ray well thank you."
Louis: By the way if you do have a little problem like I do
- I've often thought if you meet a little green man who
said take me to your leader who would you take him to
the Pope, Prime Minister or Paul McCartney. Don't ring
us with the answer to that question!
----------------------------------
Ray: "We are publishers and we are also film documentary
makers."
Uh-huh.
Ray: "The film that we have shows the vehicle recovery,
debris recovery and also autopsy of one of the
creatures that were found".
The vehicle recovery!
Now that could be page 1 news around the world.
Ray: "It looks from our - I mean we're not medical experts
but it looks female and we have a pathologist, a senior
Home Office pathologist, looking at the footage right
now."
Really. And yet, no subsequent mention of this?
This claim is being investigated.
Ray: "We got it from the original cameraman, the cameraman
that shot the footage. He was sent down in June not
July of 1947 which was approximately a month before
the reported sighting in the newspaper what was it -
the Roswell Times I don't know, but apparently the
area was cordoned off and cleaned up in its entirety
or almost up until July 7th when the small area had
been discovered and some debris had been found but that
was as far as the military was concerned the area had
been completely cleaned up by then".
Well, you can't accuse Mr Santilli of not being controversial.
This is a puzzling claim and deserves further consideration.
If we are witnessing a hoax which has been entirely perpetrated by
Santilli and associates, i.e., if there is no "Jack Barnett", then why
would they complicate matters to the nth degree by placing events
approximately one month before the numerous documented accounts?
This instantly discredits the likely authenticity of the film and
makes little sense.
If however, there is a "Jack Barnett" and the film was purchased from
him in good faith, it could be that Santilli is simply repeating what
he was told.
This seems the more likely of the two scenarios, but without
supporting evidence that "Barnett" exists, we can only speculate.
It's certainly an intriguing twist.
Ray: "You can only authenticate the film stock you can't
authenticate the content."
A previous posting from someone who had heard part of this broadcast
and claimed that Santilli had stated the film had been authenticated,
would appear to be inaccurate.
Louis: "You bought the actual film not a copy of it"
Ray: "No the film the original film".
Not a copy?
The first person to see and publicise the footage was Reg Presley.
This apparently took place shortly after Christmas '94 and only a
couple of weeks afterwards, on the "Good Morning With Anne and Nick"
breakfast chat show, Reg apparently had this to say:
"This old guy, now about 76, said, 'If you think that this Elvis
Presley footage is fantastic, what do you think about this?', and from
underneath his bed he pulled out 15 cartridges of old film, and he
said, 'I thought this was so important at the time that I made a copy
and I didn't tell anyone and I've said nothing since.'"
Not exactly, "the film the original film" and nothing but the original
film.
Overall, an interesting snapshot in the history of events so far.
And if Santilli's doubtful claim that "we have a pathologist, a senior
Home Office pathologist, looking at the footage right now", can be
proven to be false, then he is a documented liar.
Cheers,
James.
