Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:50:33 +0000 From: George Cole Subject: [IML] QUEST: Starwars, light sabres and fog objects I've made my first fog object! Hurrah! But it all went horribly wrong :-( I'm trying to make something similar to a light sabre. I've got a central cone like object, then a larger copy of it outside that, then a much larger copy outside that. The inner object is maximum brightness, full red colour, and a red lightsource. The middle object is a darkish red fog object with ghost applied. The outer object is a pale pink coloured fog object with ghost applied. The middle and outer objects have different strengths of fog and ghost as these are the glow that the sabre creates and the outer object must be a lot lighter and more transparent. When I render, even in a scene where there's a background, it all looks weird. The inner object is fine and so is the outer object but the inner object seems to cancel out the outer object so there is total transparency where the middle object is but you can still see the inner object. How do I fix this, or how do I create a good, realistic, animatable light sabre? I created this object after looking at some tutorials on halos around lightsources, laser beams, and neon lights found in dare2imagine and the imagine FAQ 8. I have IMD 4.0, no essence textures, the texture toolkit and very little knowledge of imagine textures (so explain everything very clearly). Also are there any good StarWars pics out on the web? Thanks, ---------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:05:20 -0700 From: Bill Graham When nesting fog objects like that, try making the various elements with "thickness". So that your light sword cone would actually be two cones Joined together, with the bottoms stitched together. The same goes for transparent objects with things inside them. ---------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:34:54 +0000 From: "Matthew O'Neill" Organization: Cosmic! Remeber that one of imagines features (ahem) is that if 2 layers of fog over lap each other then they cancel each other out. Kill the fog on the 2 inner objects and set the large objects fog slightly thicker (smaller number) This is the only thing that I can think of. ---------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:02:06 +0100 From: Martin Lykke George. Yes... a bug If you want to do a lightsaber.... But sometimes you can use the canceling to do special effects. I think T. Holm explained some time ago. I would love it if you hade the ability to select between add/sub/or ect. when adding fog to and object. So Mike H. Would this be possible to put into Imagine? Or would you have to re-do alot of Imagines structure? ---------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:49:48 +0100 From: Andreas Backhaus You may also want to have a look at the volumetrics tutorials by Hans Lightbrush. He shows a very clever way to use this fog "feature" for volumetric effects. Check out: http://hem2.passagen.se/lightb ---------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:50:45 +0000 From: George Cole Richard Jennings wrote: > This is a "feature" of Imagine. When > fog objects occupy the same 3D same > they cancel. These *features* are beginning to get on my nerves. I've set it up so that the outer fog object (the very outer glow) is just a plane with the shape of the middle object cut out of it but unfortunately this means that it has to be aligned to the camera for it to appear straight on. Is there anyway to align just one axis of an object to the camera? Also why does the ribbed texture create gaps between the ribs? Thanks, ---------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:09:59 +0100 From: Torgeir Holm Like mentioned lots of times before, this us actually in many cases a useful feature. If impulse change how fog works, they must also leave the old way in there, so that old projects will still render fine. The best way to make a light sabre would be to use a tapered cylinder, set to fog. Then use ABFakely and ABFakeNC multiple times to manipulate the coloring and foglength, then add a sprinkle of ABBoost to make it really glow. ---------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:13:25 +0000 From: George Cole And for those of us with Imagine for Dos (i.e. no ABtextures)?? What I really need is ABBoost though. Any-way to fake this? Thanks, ---------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:29:42 +0100 From: Torgeir Holm If you have the dos version you can Use multiple layers of fakely and Ghost. The reason why you need ABtextures in IFW is that there is a bug in the IFW textures that doesn't let you use negative numbers to disable part of the textures. (and AB has a lot better coltrol of the angles affected) As for the boost: just enter numbers above 255 for the RGB values. ---------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 17:36:03 +0000 From: George Cole Subject: Re: [IML] QUEST: Starwars, light sabres and fog objects To: IMAGINE@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU X-UIDL: eca505135fbef18f5628876a1865eae5 Thanks. I managed to create my lightsaber at last just using an outer fog object with ghost and a bright, white inner object. Looks pretty good. With Imagine for Dos you can't enter colour values higher than 255. Would motion blur give me the effect that they had on StarWars where as they swung the lightsaber it left a trail of glow in the wake of the swing? When I look at my image on its own the lightsabre look very realistic but when I compare it to a StarWars image of the lightsabre fight scene you can easily tell the difference. You really need ABBoost or something to boost the colours past 255 to get the right effect. Is there a texture or something out there that could boost the colour values? I could probably do this in Photoshop but I need it for an animation. Thanks, ---------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 07:06:38 -0500 From: Gregory Denby Actually, the lightsabers in the first Star Wars, and maybe the later ones were a post process, i.e. they were painted onto the film over the image of the actors holding just the handles (if I'm remembering the "Making of Star Wars" from 20 years ago. Also, maybe if you actually do perfectly imitate the Star Wars sabers, the LucasArts Copyright Patrol might find its way to your door... On a more helpful note, you might be able to get a better effect if you start experimenting with layered semi-transparent cones, etc. As long as you up the resolve depth, you will be able to trace the images. Longer processor time, but less manual work. ---------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 17:56:09 +0000 From: George Cole If any-one is interested in what I'm talking about then you can see the difference between my lightsaber and the real one: http://home.clara.net/cole/mine.jpg -my lightsabre http://home.clara.net/cole/theirs.gif -their lightsabre Keep the help coming :-) ---------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:29:22 -0500 From: Jason Miller I decided to make a light saber for you guys. Here it is, tell me what you think of it. http://jason.3dillusion.com/images/works/saber.jpg ---------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:20:00 +0000 From: George Cole With the help of Jason and some other people I finally got the hint that putting fakely on might be a good idea. See http://home.clara.net/cole/mine2.jpg The outer glow is an object with fog and ghost. The inner object is bright white fakely going to darker red around 0.2 setting. Looks better but I won't be able to get such a white glow on the inner object when I've got the outer glow object as it darkens it. You need 2 object to get the outer glow to go down the handle and the inner glow to not go down the handle! George Cole ---------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 19:57:57 +0000 From: George Cole A little note to every-one to say thanks for all of the help with the lightsaber and related problems. Once I've figured IK and bones I should have an animation to show for my work. Then I'll get back to the Ant!! Thanks again, ----------------------------------